Stats: 3,190,597 members, 7,941,275 topics. Date: Thursday, 05 September 2024 at 10:05 PM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! (11431 Views)
How To Understand John 5:19 / 1 John 5:7. I Need Explanation / 1 John 5:7 : The Real Story! (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (Reply) (Go Down)
1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by CAPTIVATOR: 5:48pm On Feb 27, 2015 |
I Could now go through all the Scriptures that support the doctrine of the trinity, however, there is a problem --THERE ARE NO SUCH SCRIPTURES! So let’s do something else. Let’s look at a few Scriptures that Trinitarians claim add credence to their theory. I will take no more than a few pages to try and clarify the Scriptural teaching on who, what, and how many Gods there really are. First of all we must dispense with I John 5:7 which reads in the King James Version "For there are three that bear record In heaven, the Father, the Word, and The Holy Ghost : and these three are one." There is a problem with this verse. The words that I typed in bold print are not Scripture. They should NOT be in the Bible. There are many Bibles that do not contain these words. Here are a few: The Concordant Literal New Testament: "...seeing that three there are that are testifying, the spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are for the one thing." New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures: "For there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement." A New Translation by James Moffatt: "The witnesses are three, the Spirit and the water and the blood, and the three of them are in accord." The Emphatic Diaglott: "For there are three which testify; the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and the three are of one." The Emphatic Diaglott has a footnote: "This text concerning the heavenly witnesses [as found in some versions] is NOT contained in ANY Greek manuscript which was written earlier than the 15th century. It is not cited by ANY of the Greek ecclesiastical writers; nor by ANY of the early Latin fathers..." The Holy Bible--New Catholic Version: "For there are three that bear witness [in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth]: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three are one." The brackets are supplied by the translators. This version also has a footnote: "According to the evidence of many manuscripts, and the majority of commentators, these verses should read: ‘For there are three that bear witness: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three are one.’ The Holy See reserves to itself the right to pass finally on the origin of the present reading." The New Testament from 26 Translations: Footnote, page 1183: "The words between ‘bear record’ (verse 7) and ‘the spirit’ (verse 8 ) are now recognized as not adequately supported by original manuscripts." As those words were hand written in a copy of a manuscript as late as the 15th century and do not appear in ANY Greek manuscript, they have no place in the inspired Word of God. http://bible-truths.com/ |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by mustymatic(m): 5:50pm On Feb 27, 2015 |
Hmmm..make I reserve my truth |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by wellmax(m): 6:01pm On Feb 27, 2015 |
OP you have confused yourself and is set out to confuse others. Who says there are no scriptures confirming trinity. How I wish I got time for folks like you. |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by CAPTIVATOR: 9:15pm On Feb 27, 2015 |
wellmax: Learn , Something important and profound: GENTLEMAN .... Whenever someone tries to teach you a doctrine that is UNscriptural, he will always be forced to use words that are unscriptural. First of all, NOWHERE in the Scriptures Is God referred to or called a "trinity." ! Second, the word "THREE" is never used In reference to Who or What God is. ! Thirdly, God is NEVER described as " three in one" in the scriptures |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by Nobody: 9:50pm On Feb 27, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR:col1.19-20.kjv For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Lesson 1: The Father dwells in Christ. jhn15.26.kjv But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: Lesson 2: the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father that dwells in Christ. Three distinct entities with different attributes dwelling in one. QED |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by Nobody: 10:04pm On Feb 27, 2015 |
wellmax: @Wellmax, yes you heard him right. There is not even a single scipture in the Bible that support the Trinity doctrine(dogma). |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by Nobody: 11:13pm On Feb 27, 2015 |
AgricSalt:I hv answered the Op |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by CAPTIVATOR: 11:19pm On Feb 27, 2015 |
Bobbysworld28: THANK YOU for destroying the pagan trinity - the word "Father" didnt appear in the original context of Col 1:19. - Col 1:19 didnt say Christ possess the fullness because he is part of a trinitarian God, DID IT ? NO ! RATHER it says Christ possess the fullness because " it PLEASED THE FATHER" (kjv) the GOD of Christ. DEAR FRIEND, that is tellin you that he wont possess the " fullness" if it DIDNT PLEASE THE FATHER . - ONCE AGAIN , that scripture again reveal the Authority of the Father over his son , Christ !! > the same scripture also said, it pleased God to reconcile all things to himself THROUGH Christ, his son . Christ whose blood is shed for mankind is the " mediator" between the Only true God, the Father and mankind whom the Father reconcile to himself. "for there is ONE GOD, THE FATHER" and one mediator between God and MAN, Christ Jesus. 1 Tim 2:5 , 1 Cor 8:6 . |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by Nobody: 11:58pm On Feb 27, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR:Christ possessed the FULNESS OF God bodily. In Him God dwelt fully. He and the Father became one heb1.8.kjv But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. God the Father referred to the Son as God. No wonder Jesus told his disciples dt anyone who has seen him has seen the Father, gerrit? Jesus was the spoken word of God which became flesh and dwelt among us. What are words? Words are ur tots and will clothed in language. So his divinity, origin and status was from God and was God Jn 1:1 |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by Empiree: 1:23am On Feb 28, 2015 |
Check this Op see if you can catch some fun https://www.nairaland.com/2164402/non-muslims-only-jesus-mohammed/2#31127115 |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by johnw74: 1:33am On Feb 28, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR: The original Greek text that the King James bible is translated from say's the same thing. 1Jn 5:7 ForG3754 there areG1526 threeG5140 that bear recordG3140 inG1722 heaven,G3772 theG3588 Father,G3962 theG3588 Word,G3056 andG2532 theG3588 HolyG40 Ghost:G4151 andG2532 theseG3778 threeG5140 areG1526 one.G1520 The old Greek manuscript word for Father is pater which in English means Father. The old Greek manuscript word for Word is logos which means Word or the Word. The old Greek manuscript words for Holy Ghost is hagios which means Holy and pneuma which means Spirit. Also they are two verses not the same one. 1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by johnw74: 1:38am On Feb 28, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR: God is exactly described as that. 1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by Empiree: 2:33am On Feb 28, 2015 |
^So in another word, all 3 are co-equals, co-occupants, co-creationists?. All the "three-god-heads" are one God? |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by CAPTIVATOR: 7:52am On Feb 28, 2015 |
Bobbysworld28: The original post says it all , you guys are only look for verses to defend ur spurious theory. - There is no TRINITY in this verses ..... NOTE: They actually spoke about two persons AND NOT THREE . |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by Nobody: 8:03am On Feb 28, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR:One there is no Trinity in the Bible. The concept however is glaring at u even though u refuse to accept. mat28.18-19.kjv And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: The first allusion to this oneness came frm Jesus in d verse above. Can u see dt he told his disciples to baptize in the name (not names) of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The three are one |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by CAPTIVATOR: 10:23am On Feb 28, 2015 |
Bobbysworld28: ~ the words that I underline are UNscriptural, you add it because you are teaching a doctrine that is Unscriptural . - THAT the scripture u quoted mentions the Father, son and holyspirit together NEVER means they are ONE GOD ! Does that scripture say they are ONE GOD ? NO! ~ what will u call 1tim 5:21 where God, Jesus Christ and the angels are MENTIONED together ? U may call that one "billionity" |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by Ifeann(f): 10:26am On Feb 28, 2015 |
Empiree: Hahahaaaaa. .Empiree u seek help from the kaffir when ur arguement was destroyed in that thread... U are truly a Fuwaysiqah muslim.. It's funny u Muslims kill agnostics like the OP but u are very willing to get him to defend ur prophet . .hypocrite. |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by Nobody: 10:40am On Feb 28, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR: baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by Nobody: 10:44am On Feb 28, 2015 |
heb1.8.kjv But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. God the Father referred to the Son as God. No wonder Jesus told his disciples dt anyone who has seen him has seen the Father, gerrit? |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by CAPTIVATOR: 12:03pm On Feb 28, 2015 |
Bobbysworld28: The emphasis is on " BAPTIZING" NOT trinity Baptize them in the name of " the Father" ( the ONLY true God ( Joh 17:3 [the ONE God for christians 1 COR 8:6 ]) . The son ( who receive his authority from God[matt 28:18]) The holy spirit ( free gift from God [ Act 2:38]) THE TEXT destroyed the trinity argument by evidently never including ur UNscriptural phrase " the three are one" . |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by Nobody: 12:11pm On Feb 28, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR:Destroyed? When u bring 3 ppl together, u use names not name. Three ppl grouped together and bearing one name? Thats more like a conscious agreement in which u can use dt one name for any of them and u won't be wrong! Simple logic, ehn? In Hebrews the Father referred to the Son as God. Yet in Matthew 1:20 the Son was called the child of the Holy Spirit (Holy Spirit =the Father). I laff at d way u ignorantly say d verse destroyed my argument |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by dejilg(m): 12:14pm On Feb 28, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR:and why shld people take u seriously ![]() |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by dejilg(m): 12:17pm On Feb 28, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR:well the Word "Bible" isn't in the Bible, and are u so ignorant that truths doesn't necessarily have to be expressed in single words or sentences ![]() ![]() |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by CAPTIVATOR: 12:24pm On Feb 28, 2015 |
dejilg: " God is ONLY one" Gal 3:20 NOT three in one 1 Like |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by CAPTIVATOR: 12:26pm On Feb 28, 2015 |
dejilg: YAHWEH is the name of the MOST HIGH GOD ( psalm 83:18) NOT Jesus . OR Give me the scripture that says " Jesus IS YAHWEH" ? |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by dejilg(m): 12:37pm On Feb 28, 2015 |
The book of Hebrews 1 says "8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom." 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions."" and also "10 "And, "You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; 11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, 12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end."" ...these are quotations from the book of Psalms 45:6-7 and 102:25-27 which identifies Jesus as YHWH and acribes Eternality to the Son of God!!! Even the Father calls Him God and Creator of all things (if you are the creator of "all things", den u urself aren't a created being)...if Jesus is YHWH, den the Bible says in the shema' i.e Deut 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." shows that our Human nature can't be compared to God's, that's why Trinitarians do not seek to claim to fully grasp God's nature and Wisdom, but it seems that these "anti-Trinitarian" groups wud know all of God (by using d human nature, hence God is no more dan us in a sense)... I believe many of the don't even know wat the doctrine of Trinity teaches, but dey just attack it |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by dejilg(m): 12:38pm On Feb 28, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR:I guess u r new to Bible exposition, try refute the passages above that identifies Jesus as YHWH! Check above and stop being ignorant of dis simple fact |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by dejilg(m): 12:43pm On Feb 28, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR:I guess a bit is clear to u abt d use of the words, Trinity and Bible--so makes those ur points invalid....now u quote Gal 3:20, "God is Only one" May I ask which translation u r using? cos I don't find d word "only" in the ones I checked....and if I permit u to use dat seemingly wrong translation, then can I ask, "God is only one (what?) or (who?)...cos we Trinitarians believe that there is only One God and God is One in his Unity!!! |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by CAPTIVATOR: 12:43pm On Feb 28, 2015 |
Bobbysworld28:U think name in that context is a literal name. So, what is the personal name of the holyspirit ?
SO , Holyspirit= the Father ... Lol So the father will give u himself when u ask for holyspirit ?? Luk 11:13 So the father actually descend as a dove during Jesus baptism ? |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by dejilg(m): 12:56pm On Feb 28, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR:from this ur reply I now know dat u don't even know wat Trinitarianism is about. If u dnt know the difference between "a person" and "a human being", den how can u grasp it wen the trinity uses the words "Person" and "Being" to summarize the so so Scriptural doctrine of the ONE Being of God shared by three co equal, eternal and powerful Persons? |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by Nobody: 1:06pm On Feb 28, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR:Actually, Yes! D Father gives u Himself! Dt makes u to be a partaker of his divine nature. 2pe1.4.kjv Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. He proceeds (present continous) from the Father. jhn15.26.kjv But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: Check this out jhn14.8-10.kjv Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Jesus came from the Father and put on flesh and subdued himself to death on the cross after which he was so highly exalted in heaven, on earth and under d earth. The Father even proclaimed him as God and dwelt fully in Christ. Pls ehn, if u will remove bias and look at scripture u will understand this glorious union. U r using ur mind to interprete scripture instead of letting scripture transform u by renewing ur mind. Another thing I perceive is dt u seem not to understand the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Have u received him since u believed? |
Re: 1 John 5:7 Is A Pure Religious Fabrication !!! by Empiree: 1:16pm On Feb 28, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR:Simple, isn't? Those fellows who believe in trinity or that Jesus is |
RAPTURE; The Re-gathering Of True Israel / Why It's Hard For A Richman Or Even the Poor To Enter The Kingdom Of God / Differences Between Prophets And Diviners
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 98 |