dalaman:


Which facts? Which date did Peter die and who killed him? Provide 3 independent sources from antiquity that supports this claim. There is history, myths and legend, the story of Jesus disciples dying for their faiths is mythology and legends.

DProDG:


Do you have any better definitions yourself?

DProDG:

I didn't know, so I asked...


Replacing one term with another doesn't change anything. Adaptation is different from evolution. For starters, it plays no role on the genetic level, hence, isn't hereditary. What you call adaptation IS evolution.

5minsmadness:

LOL!

Who are you to demand in what way I should present how St peter died? If you are looking for someone to vent your frustrations look elsewhere!

dalaman:


Stop projection your issues on me. How do we know that something is historical true? We know it through multiple attestation by independent sources. The stories of the disciples dying for their faith came from the church father mostly in the 3rd century and that is the fact of the matter.

KingEbukasBlog:


Because you say fact doesn't make something a fact . Example . Evolution is a fact

dalaman:


Where did I mention evolution anywhere in my post?

johnydon22:
wikipedia encyclopedia biased? because they called myth what it is, myth...lmao
hahahahahahahaha creating light (day and night) and plant before The sun.. chisoooooos How does this even resemble anything similar to evolution..

Beside evolution is referred to as origin of species not the world..

5minsmadness:

how does this answer how such early people could figure out the whole evolution process? The creation story follows evolution story, you can just substitute 'days' for 'millions of years' in the way plant and animal life appeared and it would follow uncannily. how is that possible if it is just a story?

DProDG:


How is any of that relevant^^^? You compared faith with scientific predictions and I simply asked you a explain. Are you going to or not?

KingEbukasBlog:

Hmmm ... no response for one , two , three , etc

First .. hell is not in existence now
Second.. God is not a sky being . He didnt come from nothing like the Big Bang , God has no validity . He has no beginning , no end . So mighty your brains which came about by mistake can comprehend
Thirdly ... Jesus Christ is the way you can escape God's punishment

R1 . Still doesn't change the fact it is baseless , give me a call when it explains the initial conditions of the universe . Thanks

R2. God acknowledges the fact there are diseases in the bible . The healings and miracles
a.By his stripes we are healed
b. this affliction shall not rise for the second time
c."This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God's glory so that God's Son may be glorified through it." - after Lazarus died and Jesus brought him back to life and much more .

Seriously bro innocent ? You trying to emanate pity and make God look bad . Epic fail -

R3 . Paradoxical indeed ! Like I said if you do not understand Him , stay way . Like there aint contradictions in the laws of science during the course of cosmic evolution

R5. Creation is not magic .If magic, its still better than a mistake .According to evolution ,your ability to talk , reason , any form of intelligence is a mistake . Meaning there are possibilities of .

Also by mistake , humans have coordinated way of communication , and general living . Meaning elephants could play the role of humans and humans could bel ower class animals ... init ?

KingEbukasBlog:

dude , how is the example of an apple falling off a tree prediction . Even this monkey that will evolve in a million years is surprised

5minsmadness:


tomato
Tomaeto.

It still doesnt answer my question. WHY HASN'T HUMANITY EVOLVED FURTHER?

Humblebloke:


The prediction is your specific belief about a scientific idea*

You make a scientifc prediction and you are *hoping* it turns out right.... That's guided by some faith!

Lemme guess..... You call it 'faith of reason' innit

DProDG:

I'm not gonna argue theology with you so there was no need to reply...
etc...


So your argument with the BB theory is that it doesn't explain something that it never claimed to explain? If you were really curious, you'll have been studying physics and cosmology. So don't complain when scientists don't provide answers.


How does acknowledging them make a difference? If he was omni-benevolent as descried, diseases wouldn't exist.


Excuse me for thinking deformed infants were innocent(those little bast.ards!).


Is it bad that I do not understand how omni-benevolence and genocidal go together? Or omniscience and freewill? Assuming that you have to be a theist to understand God is just a lazy way of discrediting the opinions of atheists on the matter.


Please tell me how speaking things into existence doesn't fall under magic. If you consider natural selection, variation and mutations mistakes...ok. And yes, there are brainless unintelligent animal life forms...

What

DProDG:


When you've got followers of a religion pushing their faith on you and retarding progress, both scientific and economic, you'll understand

Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. He attended various European universities, and became a Canon in the Catholic church in 1497. His new system was actually first presented in the Vatican gardens in 1533 before Pope Clement VII who approved, and urged Copernicus to publish it around this time. Copernicus was never under any threat of religious persecution - and was urged to publish both by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and the Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus referred sometimes to God in his works, and did not see his system as in conflict with the Bible.

Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning. In De Interpretatione Naturae Prooemium, Bacon established his goals as being the discovery of truth, service to his country, and service to the church. Although his work was based upon experimentation and reasoning, he rejected atheism as being the result of insufficient depth of philosophy, stating, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity."

Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
Kepler was a brilliant mathematician and astronomer. He did early work on light, and established the laws of planetary motion about the sun. He also came close to reaching the Newtonian concept of universal gravity - well before Newton was born! His introduction of the idea of force in astronomy changed it radically in a modern direction. Kepler was an extremely sincere and pious Lutheran, whose works on astronomy contain writings about how space and the heavenly bodies represent the Trinity. Kepler suffered no persecution for his open avowal of the sun-centered system, and, indeed, was allowed as a Protestant to stay in Catholic Graz as a Professor (1595-1600) when other Protestants had been expelled!

Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo is often remembered for his conflict with the Roman Catholic Church. His controversial work on the solar system was published in 1633. It had no proofs of a sun-centered system (Galileo's telescope discoveries did not indicate a moving earth) and his one "proof" based upon the tides was invalid. It ignored the correct elliptical orbits of planets published twenty five years earlier by Kepler. Since his work finished by putting the Pope's favorite argument in the mouth of the simpleton in the dialogue, the Pope (an old friend of Galileo's) was very offended. After the "trial" and being forbidden to teach the sun-centered system, Galileo did his most useful theoretical work, which was on dynamics. Galileo expressly said that the Bible cannot err, and saw his system as an alternate interpretation of the biblical texts.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Descartes was a French mathematician, scientist and philosopher who has been called the father of modern philosophy. His school studies made him dissatisfied with previous philosophy: He had a deep religious faith as a Roman Catholic, which he retained to his dying day, along with a resolute, passionate desire to discover the truth. At the age of 24 he had a dream, and felt the vocational call to seek to bring knowledge together in one system of thought. His system began by asking what could be known if all else were doubted - suggesting the famous "I think therefore I am". Actually, it is often forgotten that the next step for Descartes was to establish the near certainty of the existence of God - for only if God both exists and would not want us to be deceived by our experiences - can we trust our senses and logical thought processes. God is, therefore, central to his whole philosophy. What he really wanted to see was that his philosophy be adopted as standard Roman Catholic teaching. Rene Descartes and Francis Bacon (1561-1626) are generally regarded as the key figures in the development of scientific methodology. Both had systems in which God was important, and both seem more devout than the average for their era.

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Love Your God With All Your Mind: The Role of Reason in the Life of the SoulPascal was a French mathematician, physicist, inventor, writer and theologian. In mathematics, he published a treatise on the subject of projective geometry and established the foundation for probability theory. Pascal invented a mechanical calculator, and established the principles of vacuums and the pressure of air. He was raised a Roman Catholic, but in 1654 had a religious vision of God, which turned the direction of his study from science to theology. Pascal began publishing a theological work, Lettres provinciales, in 1656. His most influential theological work, the Pensées ("Thoughts", was a defense of Christianity, which was published after his death. The most famous concept from Pensées was Pascal's Wager. Pascal's last words were, "May God never abandon me."


Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God was essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."

Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
One of the founders and key early members of the Royal Society, Boyle gave his name to[b] "Boyle's Law" for gases[/b], and also wrote an important work on chemistry. Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "By his will he endowed a series of Boyle lectures, or sermons, which still continue, 'for proving the Christian religion against notorious infidels...' As a devout Protestant, Boyle took a special interest in promoting the Christian religion abroad, giving money to translate and publish the New Testament into Irish and Turkish. In 1690 he developed his theological views in The Christian Virtuoso, which he wrote to show that the study of nature was a central religious duty." Boyle wrote against atheists in his day, and was clearly much more devoutly Christian than the average in his era.

Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday was the son of a blacksmith who became one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but led to much of our lifestyles today, which depends on them (including computers and telephone lines and, so, web sites). Faraday was a devoutly Christian member of the Sandemanians, which significantly influenced him and strongly affected the way in which he approached and interpreted nature. Originating from Presbyterians, the Sandemanians rejected the idea of state churches, and tried to go back to a New Testament type of Christianity.

Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
Mendel was the first to lay the mathematical foundations of genetics, in what came to be called "Mendelianism". He began his research in 1856 (three years before Darwin published his Origin of Species) in the garden of the Monastery in which he was a monk. Mendel was elected Abbot of his Monastery in 1868. His work remained comparatively unknown until the turn of the century, when a new generation of botanists began finding similar results and "rediscovered" him (though their ideas were not identical to his). An interesting point is that the 1860's was notable for formation of the X-Club, which was dedicated to lessening religious influences and propagating an image of "conflict" between science and religion. One sympathizer was Darwin's cousin Francis Galton, whose scientific interest was in genetics (a proponent of eugenics - selective breeding among humans to "improve" the stock). He was writing how the "priestly mind" was not conducive to science while, at around the same time, an Austrian monk was making the breakthrough in genetics. The rediscovery of the work of Mendel came too late to affect Galton's contribution.

William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
Kelvin was foremost among the small group of British scientists who helped to lay the foundations of modern physics. His work covered many areas of physics, and he was said to have more letters after his name than anyone else in the Commonwealth, since he received numerous honorary degrees from European Universities, which recognized the value of his work. He was a very committed Christian, who was certainly more religious than the average for his era. Interestingly, his fellow physicists George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) were also men of deep Christian commitment, in an era when many were nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. The Encyclopedia Britannica says "Maxwell is regarded by most modern physicists as the scientist of the 19th century who had the greatest influence on 20th century physics; he is ranked with Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein for the fundamental nature of his contributions." Lord Kelvin was an Old Earth creationist, who estimated the Earth's age to be somewhere between 20 million and 100 million years, with an upper limit at 500 million years based on cooling rates (a low estimate due to his lack of knowledge about radiogenic heating).

Max Planck (1858-1947)
Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds. In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft," Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present, and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he thought, attach too much importance to what are merely symbols. Planck was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death, and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God (though not necessarily a personal one). Both science and religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the goal "toward God!"

Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

5minsmadness:

Oh? Retarding progress you say?
i'm getting sleepy and av been at this all day. it has been a good discussion. good nigh.

DProDG:

According to your bible, sin could be as natural as a thought crime. We're all granted freewill and we all sin. What is so surprising? We also have knowledge of good and evil, just like Adam did before he started sinning.

So it's either we won't have knowledge of good and evil(which is basically the same thing as freewill) or there will be sin in heaven.

What exactly do you mean by 'slaves of sin'? These are basic questions. No need for scripture

DProDG:


I hope you were not expecting me to read all that. I mentioned earlier that a scientist's religion is not relevant to his work and you post list of religious scientists? Please tell me how religion helped them or at least which of them was against the inquiry into the origin of the universe and life on earth.

DProDG:


I hope you were not expecting me to read all that. I mentioned earlier that a scientist's religion is not relevant to his work and you post list of religious scientists? Please tell me how religion helped them or at least which of them was against the inquiry into the origin of the universe and life on earth.

KingEbukasBlog:
Still don't get how being a christian hinders progress ..like how ??

DProDG:

When you've got followers of a religion pushing their faith on you and retarding progress, both scientific and economic, you'll understand

5minsmadness:

I'll leave you with this:

The atheist can't find God for the same reason that a thief can't find a policeman.
Author Unknown

and this:

If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts - i.e., Materialism and Astronomy - are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset.
C.S. Lewis


good night sir.

DProDG:

I didn't say that. No one cares what you believe as long as you keep it to yourself. Here's my comment...



Creationist reject science on the sole basis that it contradicts their personal beliefs. You can choose to deny it but it's obvious from the strawmen you've created that you do not know much about what you reject.

As for economic retardation, I don't have to say much. We all know about the billionaire con-men commonly referred to as pastors and 'men of God' that do not pay taxes.

DProDG:

Poor analogy. No one is running from God. You need to accept his existence in the first place to 'run from him'.

Accidental≠deterministic.

5minsmadness:

You cannot find God because you don't want to. You couldn't even interprete it right.

Your opinion.

KingEbukasBlog:

R1. You define things by your own reasoning or maybe what you read online somewhere . Now that's totally false . Creationist reject evolution on the sole basis that it contradicts their personal beliefs - makes more sense to me

R2. Where you there ? How do you know they don't pay taxes? Good churches provide financial aid for their underprivileged members .Some christians defy comfort to live in villages and get souls for Christ . Good churches preach against crime , adultery , infidelity . You see criminals surrendering their lives to Christ ... and no no... you guys dont see that .

DProDG:


Really? So why do YOU reject it? It has holes in it right? Ok, true...now you've stated what you believe are holes in the theory several times and more often than not they ended up being strawmen or simply false. If you do not agree with ANY of my rebuttals(including from previous threads) quote me on that.



No church in Nigeria and most parts of the world is taxed. The Vatican Church which is one of the richest and most corrupt organisations in the world was recently forced to pay property tax.

Yes some churches carry out charities but what are the statistics? How is what a few individuals do relevant in the grand scheme? Is preaching against crime unique to churches?


And please, what I say is what should be addressed and not whether it's my opinion or I just copy what I see online.

5minsmadness:


at 100 years for evolution.
You see jonnydon? I know a little more than some of your folks here obviously

Of course GOD can create the world in 6days. He is GOD unlimited, HIs powers are waaaay beyond your comprehension! it even marvels me how people belittle him by thinking he only created life on this planet.

i think your problem is you were limited to believing the bible when you were a christian(i could be wrong). the bible doesn't explain everything. in fact it is a very brief summary on what GOD can really do but today Christians take it as all in all which is their main mistake. but just because the bible isn't complete doesn't mean GOD doesn't exist.


question for you, have you ever had anything supernatural, non-scientifically explainable happen to you? if you havent then i understand why you wont believe in the supernatural.

another question. has it ever bothered you that the ancient creation story seems to follow the process of evolution? How did those illiterate ignorant desert authors like johnydon22 likes to call them know the exact sequence of how things were created?

any answers?

babyshaQ1:
I didn't say evolution takes a 100 years...I meant your imagination hence why you haven't grown 4 arms...Evolution is very very slow that's why the next question followed. your God can create the universe in 6 days and he suddenly stopped creating anything since then...he created the sun in the third day after light in the first, such a wonder he is...the bible isn't complete? I thought your God was perfect and the beginning and the end but his book isn't complete?? really?
I have seen people do magic and perform illusions but that doesn't mean there are no explanations for them...even if there isn't yet, with time they'll eventually be explained
Evolution happened in 6 days? And what sequence of creation did they get right? lol...it seems you know not what you say...May god have mercy on you hehe

DProDG:


Really? So why do YOU reject it? It has holes in it right? Ok, true...now you've stated what you believe are holes in the theory several times and more often than not they ended up being strawmen or simply false. If you do not agree with ANY of my rebuttals(including from previous threads) quote me on that.



No church in Nigeria and most parts of the world is taxed. The Vatican Church which is one of the richest and most corrupt organisations in the world was recently forced to pay property tax.

Yes some churches carry out charities but what are the statistics? How is what a few individuals do relevant in the grand scheme? Is preaching against crime unique to churches?


And please, what I say is what should be addressed and not whether it's my opinion or I just copy what I see online.