ArtanK:

Barawa

It was also found by a Somali clan, the Tunni clan. This city was sacked by the Portuguese and was quickly liberated by the Ajuuraan forces. If the Sultan of Zanzibar was indeed ruling Barawa, how come he didn't prevent the Portuguese from sacking it and why didn't he assist the Ajuuraan in reclaiming the city?
The city's non-ethnic Somalis only came to the city in the last 200 years or so when the Gobroon sultanate allowed the Zanzibaris to live there.

The Zanzibaris/Swahilis have never ruled over Somalis, they were too weak to fight their own battles hence why the Ajuuraan naval forces, while assisting the Omanis, helped liberate their towns from the Portuguese.

You are being very disingenuous if you are claiming that the Tunni Somalis built the coral town of Barawa. In the Swahili dialect of Barawa, Barawanis call themselves Wamwiini and they speak Chimiini, in other words they consider themselves to be the "People of the town" and they speak the "language of the town" which is Swahili.

What you need to understand is Swahili people don't occupy every inch of the Kenyan coast, they share it with other tribes, just like in southern Somalia. So, the Tunni Somalis may be from Barawa but the medieval coral town of Barawa is a Swahili settlement, hence why they speak Swahili.

An this Ajuraan empire liberating everyone, please give me primary sources so i can read about this history of East Africa.

gallivant:
So that's the new mantra? We are claiming your cities? Which ones, aren't they all destroyed? Try working another angle..

Lol, destruction can only happen to what once existed. What do Bantus have? You guys won't even leave the jungles alone as deforestation is increasing.

Talk about destroying your habitat.

Nabhani:


You are being very disingenuous if you are claiming that the Tunni Somalis built the coral town of Barawa. In the Swahili dialect of Barawa, Barawanis call themselves Wamwiini and they speak Chimiini, in other words they consider themselves to be the "People of the town" and they speak the "language of the town" which is Swahili.

What you need to understand is Swahili people don't occupy every inch of the Kenyan coast, they share it with other tribes, just like in southern Somalia. So, the Tunni Somalis may be from Barawa but the medieval coral town of Barawa is a Swahili settlement, hence why they speak Swahili.

An this Ajuraan empire liberating everyone, please give me primary sources so i can read about this history of East Africa.

The settlement was established by the Tunni Somalis, they came there first and the city was developed further by the ruling House of Garen of the Ajuuraan royalty. The only thing I can attribute to the Barawani community is that they expanded the city, they came as Merchants in Merca and Barawa and the two towns saw another influx of Swahilis when the Zanzibaris landed.
Tunnis themselves don't speak Somali, they speak their own language but it is not very far from the Somali language.

The medieval town of Gondershe looked quite similar to Barawa, it had similar architecture with all white buildings and it wasn't a Barawani or Swahili settlement.

You can read about the Ottoman-Ajuuraan fleet taking on the Portuguese in East Africa here: Portuguese rule and Spanish crown in South Africa.

ArtanK:

The settlement was established by the Tunni Somalis, they came there first and the city was developed further by the ruling House of Garen of the Ajuuraan royalty. The only thing I can attribute to the Barawani community is that they expanded the city, they came as Merchants in Merca and Barawa and the two towns saw another influx of Swahilis when the Zanzibaris landed.
Tunnis themselves don't speak Somali, they speak their own language but it is not very far from the Somali language.
The medieval town of Gondershe looked quite similar to Barawa, it had similar architecture with all white buildings and it wasn't a Barawani or Swahili settlement.
You can read about the Ottoman-Ajuuraan fleet taking on the Portuguese in East Africa here: Portuguese rule and Spanish crown in South Africa.

You are contradicting yourself. Since the Tunnis and Barawani founded these towns and you claim they are unique people with a unique language what is it about the settlements to be credited to Somalis? Nabhani was right, the Swahili culture encompassed many people, we can see the Swahiliness of these settlements.

gallivant:


You are contradicting yourself. Since the Tunnis and Barawani founded these towns and you claim they are unique people with a unique language what is it about the settlements to be credited to Somalis? Nabhani was right, the Swahili culture encompassed many people, we can see the Swahiliness of these settlements.

*Correction @ the bolded. Tunnis founded Barawa and Bimaal and Hawiya founded Merca.

What contradiction? Tunnis are not unique, they are part of the Rahanwein clan which is one of the largest Somali clans. You would need to know the Tunni Somalis to make that call, sadly for you though, you don't know anything about them. There are numerous Somali clans who speak their own language like the Garreh and other sections of the Rahanwein. They are just bi-lingual Somalis.

Tunnis are responsible for it being a town today, building it from ground up. Swahilis as I said before have only arrived in the city in the last 200 years or so through trade and the Sultan of Zanzibar.

I thought you said you didn't claim Somali cities?

ArtanK:


The settlement was established by the Tunni Somalis, they came there first and the city was developed further by the ruling House of Garen of the Ajuuraan royalty. The only thing I can attribute to the Barawani community is that they expanded the city, they came as Merchants in Merca and Barawa and the two towns saw another influx of Swahilis when the Zanzibaris landed.
Tunnis themselves don't speak Somali, they speak their own language but it is not very far from the Somali language.

The medieval town of Gondershe looked quite similar to Barawa, it had similar architecture with all white buildings and it wasn't a Barawani or Swahili settlement.

You can read about the Ottoman-Ajuuraan fleet taking on the Portuguese in East Africa here: Portuguese rule and Spanish crown in South Africa.

I think you are confusing immigrants from Arabia with Swahili "immigrants" because I know for a FACT you can't prove which Swahili clan migrated to Barawa.

You say Barawanis expanded the city, how so? what was there already before their arrival?

What other similar settlements did the Tunnis establish?

The portuguese in 1503 mentions that Barawa was governed by a corporation of twelve clans, were they Somali clans?

Barawa town was divided into several wards, each ward representing prominent families/clans. What is the significance of that in Somali or Tunni culture?

Why do the Barawanis refer to themselves as "The people of the town" or "Urban city dwellers"?

As for the Ajuuran liberators, it was very common for Swahili towns to seek military assistance from neighbouring tribes. If you actually read upon Swahili history you will see that they sought help from Bantus, Cushites, Arabs, & Europeans.

Nabhani:


I think you are confusing immigrants from Arabia with Swahili "immigrants" because I know for a FACT you can't prove which Swahili clan migrated to Barawa.

You say Barawanis expanded the city, how so? what was there already before their arrival?

What other similar settlements did the Tunnis establish?

The portuguese in 1503 mentions that Barawa was governed by a corporation of twelve clans, were they Somali clans?

Barawa town was divided into several wards, each ward representing prominent families/clans. What is the significance of that in Somali or Tunni culture?

Why do the Barawanis refer to themselves as "The people of the town" or "Urban city dwellers"?

As for the Ajuuran liberators, it was very common for Swahili towns to seek military assistance from neighbouring tribes. If you actually read upon Swahili history you will see that they sought help from Bantus, Cushites, Arabs, & Europeans.

Great points to ponder.

Barawa.Clearly, even Axum will agree these are not Somalis.

TerryCarr:

clearly he was wrong

AMEN lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa0st_aMjmA

Nabhani:


I think you are confusing immigrants from Arabia with Swahili "immigrants" because I know for a FACT you can't prove which Swahili clan migrated to Barawa.

You say Barawanis expanded the city, how so? what was there already before their arrival?

What other similar settlements did the Tunnis establish?

The portuguese in 1503 mentions that Barawa was governed by a corporation of twelve clans, were they Somali clans?

Barawa town was divided into several wards, each ward representing prominent families/clans. What is the significance of that in Somali or Tunni culture?

Why do the Barawanis refer to themselves as "The people of the town" or "Urban city dwellers"?

As for the Ajuuran liberators, it was very common for Swahili towns to seek military assistance from neighbouring tribes. If you actually read upon Swahili history you will see that they sought help from Bantus, Cushites, Arabs, & Europeans.

I don't know much about the Swahilis but I'm 100% sure they are not the same as the Hadhrami/Persian settlers in Mogadishu that now call themselves Benadiri. The Ajuuraan state was seen as a safe haven for many people, Persians and Andalusians called it home after they fled their homes due to ongoing wars in the 15th-17th century.

Barawa was almost reduced to rubble by the Portuguese, once the town was liberated, the locals came back to the city and rebuilt it. That's when the Swahilis came in and expanded a town that was only a fraction of what it once was.
In the book The return of Cosmopolitan Capital:Globalization, the State and War, it mentions that Merca and Barawa were not only transit routes for the Swahili traders who were restricted by the Portuguese and the Omanis but also safe havens for them. They came to the towns through trade and settled there but they are not the original people of the town. The Tunni are small compared to other clans in the Shabelle region yet they founded the twin towns of Barawa and Gondershe.

As for the town being divided up in wards and neighbourhoods, it is the same in every Somali town/city. In Mogadishu, there are 16 districts and each district is settled by a different sub clan.
The Barawani community might call themselves people of the town but we know their history in Somali lands. Although they are now synonymous with Barawa, they came to the Somali coast after the town was established by Somalis.

Even the Sultan Ahmed Yussuf of the Geledi sultanate collected tributes from the Sultan of Zanzibar for his presence in Barawa, Merca and Mogadishu. Read - Somali Sultanate: the Geledi city-state over 150 years.

ArtanK:


I don't know much about the Swahilis

And therein lies the problem

Just answer this question (with evidence), where did the Swahili of Barawa come from and why did they go to Barawa? and because you admittedly stated you don't know much about Swahili history, I'll let you know they definitely didn't come from Zanzibar because the Barawani dialect is clearly older than the Zanzibari Swahili dialect.

Nabhani:


And therein lies the problem

Just answer this question (with evidence), where did the Swahili of Barawa come from and why did they go to Barawa? and because you admittedly stated you don't know much about Swahili history, I'll let you know they definitely didn't come from Zanzibar because the Barawani dialect is clearly older than the Zanzibari Swahili dialect.

Not knowing much about the Swahilis =/= I don't know the history of the Somali coast. Instead of discarding everything I said, take your time and read through the post.

I said:

[img]In the book The return of Cosmopolitan Capital:Globalization, the State and War, it mentions that Merca and Barawa were not only transit routes for the Swahili traders who were restricted by the Portuguese and the Omanis but also safe havens for them. They came to the towns through trade and settled there but they are not the original people of the town. The Tunni are small compared to other clans in the Shabelle region yet they founded the twin towns of Barawa and Gondershe. [/img]

The Zanzibari influx to the town came when the Sultan of Zanzibar acquired partial control of the town from the Sultan of the Geledi Sultanate.

What is your point here? Are you saying that the Swahilis established Barawa?

ArtanK:


Not knowing much about the Swahilis =/= I don't know the history of the Somali coast. Instead of discarding everything I said, take your time and read through the post.

I said:

[img]In the book The return of Cosmopolitan Capital:Globalization, the State and War, it mentions that Merca and Barawa were not only transit routes for the Swahili traders who were restricted by the Portuguese and the Omanis but also safe havens for them. They came to the towns through trade and settled there but they are not the original people of the town. The Tunni are small compared to other clans in the Shabelle region yet they founded the twin towns of Barawa and Gondershe. [/img]

The Zanzibari influx to the town came when the Sultan of Zanzibar acquired partial control of the town from the Sultan of the Geledi Sultanate.

What is your point here? Are you saying that the Swahilis established Barawa?

I'm not disregarding anything you say, brother. To be honest, whether Barawa is a Swahili town or not is not really that important to me, I just want to see you prove Somalis built the city of Barawa, it's all banter my broda.

We can't deny there is Swahili group in Barawa called Barawanis, fair? all I want to know is where did they come from and why did they go there? like I said they can't be Zanzibaris because their dialect is older. I want actual evidence, just saying Swahili traders went there doesn't really say much.

Do you know there is Swahili town called Pate that claimed they once ruled the whole entire benadir coast but without the proper evidence that would just be hogwash, right?

According to Somali history in both oral and written, Tunnis established Barawa as a small fishing village and by the time the Ajuuraan empire reached the town, it became a very important port city for the Ajuuraan.

Barawanis are there, no doubt about that and today, they are no less of a Somali than myself. When I get the chance, I'll ask a few Barawani uncles in my town, to see if they have an answer to your question.

Nabhani:
Do you know there is Swahili town called Pate that claimed they once ruled the whole entire benadir coast but without the proper evidence that would just be hogwash, right?

What is the name of the old Sultanate of Pate?

All I know of that town is that it is one of the towns that was briefly liberated by a joint Ottoman-Ajuuraan fleet in the late 16th century - Portuguese rule and Spanish crown in South Africa, 1581–1640.

So the Black girl don't have beautiful hair? Animal fur cannot be compared to 9-ether Melatonin rich hair. Besides, are Somali people not Blacks? Stewpid mofos and self haters.

OyinO:
So the Black girl don't have beautiful hair? Animal fur cannot be compared to 9-ether Melatonin rich hair. Besides, are Somali people not Blacks? Stewpid mofos and self haters.

We are black. This ArtanK doesnt represent all somalis you know.

12salim:


We are black. This ArtanK doesnt represent all somalis you know.

You are black, but you're not negroid. If i'm correct , most of you guys from the Horn look like "black caucasians".

watutsi:


You are black, but you're not negroid. If i'm correct , most of you guys from the Horn look like "black caucasians".

Well, i guess you could say that.