Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? - Religion (12) - Nairaland
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| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 12:24am On Mar 19, 2015 |
[quote author=truthman2012 post=31761106]Because when you too proud to learn this is what happens. Very simple thing you dont understand. Read the Qru'an: Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 35 Surah Fatir verse 8: Then is one to whom the evil of his deed has been made attractive so he considers it good [like one rightly guided]? For indeed, Allah sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself perish over them in regret. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of what they do. Numerous verses of the quran say ''obey Allah and his messenger''.Yes, by obeying the messanger He sent, you then obey God by conforming with His message. Is that difficult to comprehend....seriously? Muhammad enjoyed the same power as allah himself.False! ^Pointing fingers again. Why then you worship Jesus and ascribed Divinity to him? Haven't Christians today "enjoyed" the same power with God? 2 Likes |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by limamintruth: 10:19am On Mar 21, 2015 |
Empiree:First, Jesus Christ understood not only Aramaic. Secondly, Christ Jesus is The Word of God made manisfest in flesh/human form. Note also that He didnt write the Bible. So the issue of which language he spoke shouldnt logically be a cause for argument. And unlike your quran, the word of God as contained in the Bible overshadows any language barrier. Meaning any language may be used to spread God's message of the Bible.  Empiree: The Biblical verses on forgiveness which you quoted & delibereately tried so hard to distort out of context are not admonitions to God, but solely admonitions to us humans (as a guide to righteous living here on earth). No where in these verses was it stated that salvation through Jesus is wrong as you claim. And yes, Jesus took our curse and freed us eternally from sin. Thus, anyone who believes in Him will enjoy the freedom from sin He established through His death on the cross. However, if truly you know of any Bible verse that expressly condemn Christ's sacrifice of Himself for our salvation, kindly share same here  And while waiting for the appropriate evidence from you, do enrich your brain with the following: ◄John 4:42 ► (NIV) They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the SAVIOUR of the world." KJV And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the SAVIOUR of the world. ◄Matthew 1:21 ► NIV She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will SAVE his people from their sins." KJV And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall SAVE his people from their sins. ◄PROPHECY ON CHRIST'S DEATH/SACRIFICE FOR OUR SINS► Isaiah 53 KJV 1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. With regards to your argument on the issue of Judas death, permit me to once again refer you back to my earlier response to you as seen repeated below  : Bible account on how Judas died is as rightly recorded in the book of Mathew, while Apostle Peter's brief analogy of Judas death was stated figuratively, hence shouldnt be interpreted literarily. Lets then carefully analyse Acts 1:18 as you mentioned:- " Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity(i.e sin of betrayal), and falling headlong(i.e deeper in sin by further committing suicide), he bursts asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out(i.e his innate secret was exposed). v. 19 states: And it was known unto all the dwellers in Jerusalem[can you now see how this v.19 corroborates my explanation above ]; in so much as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. (Its named as such cos the field was bought with blood money). Therefore, Acts 1:18 never mentioned or inferred that Judas fell from any hill/rock/mountain mister. Infact, why not ask yourself this simple question then: If indeed we are to interprete the verse above literarily (as you insist we should) and this same verse states that Judas fell 'headlong', why then was it his belly that burst open & not his head/brain?  |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by limamintruth: 10:31am On Mar 21, 2015 |
Empiree:Hahahaha, this is what i call sweet nonsense (sorry to say)  Your argument cannot hold water bro., cos just as you ignorantly argued that no where in your quran was the term 'ever' used in addressing Moses as first believer, so also nowhere did the quran refer to Adam as the first 'ever' believer. Furthermore in line with your myopic explanation, nowhere was it stated that either Moses or Muhammed are first believers 'only amongst their generation/people'. Meaning, the way the quran refer to Adam as first believer is the same way Moses et al were also addressed (without specifics to 'amongst their people' as you desperately tried to include. So you can very well now see that your argument is completely flawed  Simply admit you have no answer to my question rather than assuming what is not stated in quran, lol.  Empiree: Millions of muslims who witnessed the time of your Prophet or which muslims are you referring to above? And hope you know that the human brain is not immune from memory distortion during recall?  Thus, the reconstructive process of memory recall is subject to distortion by other cognitive functions in the Human Brain. This is basic human science (& I guess this was what your Caliph Uthman had to contend with during his reign )So i'l appreciate if you provide us with a more appropriate answer to my previous question cos your explanation as i highlighted above doesnt just make any sense. And while at it, here's another question for you :why are there many numerical contradictions in the Quran? We know that God cannot make an error in doing simple calculations. So the question is: "How many days did it take to create the Heavens and Earth?" (Quran-7:54): Your guardian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days (Quran-10:3): Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days (Quran- 11:7): He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days Quran-25:59: He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days While we can see that the above verses clearly state that God (Allah) created the heaven and the Earth in 6 days; the verses below stated differently thus - (Quran-41:9): Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ? (Quran- 41:10): He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS… (Quran-41:12): So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and … Now kindly do the math then: 2(for earth) + 4(for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; How then did the quran arrive at its 6days in some of its verses? |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 12:10pm On Mar 21, 2015 |
[quote author=limamintruth post=31848431] Hahahaha, this is what i call sweet nonsense (sorry to say)Okay, this is indication that you lost 3 topics with me already. I see you could not respond to those or at least properly. Case closed on that because you moved on to another challenges. Your argument cannot hold water bro., cos just as you ignorantly argued that no where in your quran was the term 'ever' used in addressing Moses as first believer, so also nowhere did the quran refer to Adam as the first 'ever' believer. Furthermore in line with your myopic explanation, nowhere was it stated that either Moses or Muhammed are first believers 'only amongst their generation/people'. Meaning, the way the quran refer to Adam as first believer is the same way Moses et al were also addressed (without specifics to 'amongst their people' as you desperately tried to include. So you can very well now see that your argument is completely flawedYou surely have no clue here. I'd rather let you in the dark. My explanation are crystal clear. Closed And hope you know that the human brain is not immune from memory distortion during recall?That's your brain. You think they are like you?. YOu have no case here either. Refuted So i'l appreciate if you provide us with a more appropriate answer to my previous question cos your explanation as i highlighted above doesnt just make any senseWill appreciate if you could type the question only in your reply so i can see what it is why are there many numerical contradictions in the Quran?Example..please "How many days did it take to create the Heavens and Earth?"Okay, this is next when i am less busy. Again, i wont ask you to explain anything to me about those bible contradictions. You lost that argument already. So forget that 2 Likes |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 6:08pm On Mar 21, 2015 |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 7:24pm On Mar 21, 2015 |
AllNaijaBlogger:Lool, I wont call it argument. I'd prefer "fair religious dialogue". limamin guy is making sense. He's more polite than those other fanatics. Nothing wrong with intelligent interfaith dialogue. I only cited you to disprove your earlier allegation. That's all. No abuses or bashing btw me and this guy even though I am inundated with questions from him . That's okay. I can deal with that. Dont you think this is fair enough? 1 Like |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 8:37pm On Mar 21, 2015 |
Empiree: It is fair enough |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by akpumping7720(m): 8:43pm On Mar 21, 2015 |
Empiree:Mr Empire abi what's ur name, ave been reading ur comments on this thread and I must commend ur knowledge and understanding of your religion. But one thing I want u to know today is that, not even God or Allah created religion. Forget the bible or the Quran, d bible made us to understand that the people who followd christ were first called 'Christians' at Antioch. Making of sacrifice was the main traditional way of communicating with God in those days, d sacrificing of lambs and so on. The prophets of God were just lucky to be supernaturally blessed as good orators and miracle performers by God or Allah just because they devote themselves and God himself does as he wishes. Even in Mecca in those days, dey worship idols, so why do we want to kill ourself over getting the authentic scriptures or which religion is from God. Go and ask ur Imam, even the quran cannot be complete just as the bible. Look at the number of years that this events has been recorded on scrolls before they are transferred into handy books and u still want them to remain intact. Nowhere! So, bros pls take it easy. Even the bible says if all that happens was to be recorded, even the whole earth will not contain it which means the bible isn't complete then, jesus spent 33 plus on earth and all we could came up with is a mere content of 4 gospel books and each book doesn't even reach chapter 1000 to give every account, d samething is applicable to Muhammad. So pls, d Quran and d Bible were messages believed to be from God and it has been passed down from generation till generation. So we don't need to continue to argue on baseless facts. Even if u ave ur facts with u, how are u sure that they are 100 percent genuine? Nigerians and some part of Africa are known to be idol worshippers, the middle east introduce Islam to us while the Europeans came with christianity but all in all we serve only one God. We shouldn't turn ourselves into religious fanatics and am very sorry to say this that most muslims are known to be extremist because of their belief in 'the holy war'(Jihad) and which has been a threat to World peace! |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by limamintruth: 9:06pm On Mar 21, 2015 |
Empiree: Lols Refuted by what? How can you refute basic human science facts with 'nothing'? Or are these your million muslims super-humans  Even an absolute illiterate wont spew such baseless exaggeration.So simply admit you have nothing relevant to say on this ish & stop claiming what does not exist. Empiree: Once again, this is it (believing you'l profer a better answer to the question this time around): Who Was the First Muslim according to the Quran? Kindly cite relevant quranic verse(s) to support your answer. Note though: According to several passages in the Quran, Muhammad was the first Muslim: Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed?Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender [aslama] (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. S. 6:14 Pickthall Say, verily my Lord hath directed me into a right way, a true religion, the sect of Abraham the orthodox; and he was no idolater. Say, verily my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all creatures: He hath no companion.This have I been commanded:I am the first Moslem(Wa 'Ana 'Awwalu Al-Muslimin). S. 6:161-163 Sale He hath no associate. This am I commanded,and I am the first of the Muslims. S. 6:163 Rodwell Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only).And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims(surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12 Pickthall * However, the Quran also mentions other ancient Prophets of old as first muslim, thereby contradicting itself. Therefore, the Quran mentions that Adam, Noah, the Patriarchs, the twelve tribes of Israel, Moses, Jesus etc., who all lived a long time before Muhammad, as first believers also: E.G, Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."… And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith. We said: "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."… When learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. S. 2:30, 34-35, 37  e.t.c. Empiree: No problem man, take your time & do every research possible on that cos i aint in a rush. Goodnight. |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 10:22pm On Mar 21, 2015 |
AllNaijaBlogger:Best comment....Ever |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 3:25am On Mar 22, 2015 |
[quote author=limamintruth post=31866772] [size=5pt]LolsNo, empire is not going back n fourth on compilation of Quran. You have no evidence to substantiate your position. I have asked you bring different Qur'an in Arabic which contradicts each other. You failed. So case closed on that. Merely posting links after links written by clowns doesnt help. Physical evidence will do. But you have none. Once again, this is it (believing you'l profer a better answer to the question this time around):Who Was the First Muslim according to the Quran? Kindly cite relevant quranic verse(s) to support your answer.You disappointed me though. I thought you wanted to come up something big This simple thing that I already explained?. Haba my brother. Every muslim and some non-muslims understood this. Some basic Quranic evidences were provided earlier. Anyways, in order to understand this, I may have to walk you through "beginner mode" because quoting verses may mean nothing to you.Definition of Islam and Muslim Islam: the meaning comes from the Arabic verbal noun s-l-m. When appropriate vowel markers are added, the word Islam appears. The etymology of s-l-m is to submit, accept, or surrender. From this comes Islam’s conventional definition of surrender to God.Islam in short means peace acquired by submitting your wills to Almighty God. Muslim: also has its roots in the s-l-m verb. It is a participle of the verb and refers to a person who engages in the act of submission, acceptance, or surrender. Therefore a Muslim is a person who submits to the will of God, or a follower of Islam. So the saying that Islam is a new religion is misconception. To understand what Islam is all about, we should first examine what the word ‘Islam’ itself means. ‘Islam’ is an Arabic word which means the submission of one’s will to the only true God. A person who submits his will to God is called as a ‘Muslim’ in Arabic. Unlike the other religions, Islam was not named after any person or any tribe, nor was it decided by a later generation of man. Islam is not a new religion brought by Prophet Muhammad into Arabia. It is the religion of mankind since the first man, and it was the religion of all the God’s prophets sent to mankind. God Himself chose Islam as the name of His religion. God states in Quran: “This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion.” (Quran 5:3) So, if we see Muslim as the ones who gives himself to God, then yes Adam is the first Muslim. But if we see Muslim as the ones who gives himself to God through Islam, then Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W- peace be upon him) is the first Muslim. Key word here is submission to God's will Though Allah sent Adam (peace be upon him) as the first human on earth, but that time Islam not yet to be "exist" means that though Adam (Peace be upon him) and his family worshiped to Allah, but it was not yet in the name of Islam because again, Islam not yet to be "exist" until Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) era. According to what I have known and researched, the first to be a Muslim is Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) himself then As-Sabiqun al-Awwalun (Arabic: السَّابِقُونَ الأَوَّلُونَ) (The first ones to get into Islam) from Muhajirin and Ansar. Let's see Qur'an surah Al Maidah (5) ayat 3 : Qur'an 5:3. ...This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. When this ayat^ was given, that was when Islam first to be "exist". After that, take a look at this Qur'an surah Al An'am (6) ayat 14: Say (O Muhammad SAW): “Shall I take as a Walî (helper, protector, etc.) any other than Allâh, the Creator of the heavens and the earth? And it is He Who feeds but is not fed.” Say: “Verily, I am commanded to be the first of those who submit themselves to Allâh (as Muslims).” And be not you (O Muhammad SAW) of the Mushrikûn [polytheists, pagans, idolaters and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh]. We Muslims simple put it this way: Adam(peace be upon him) was the first Muslim(someone who submitted to God alone) and since he was the first man created on earth. Click here http://quran.com/2/3034%20Chapter%202%20verses%2030-33 . Abraham(peace be upon him) made the same religion permanent (i:e worship of One God). Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) perfected the religion know as Al-Islam. This is logical deduction. You gonna have to agree with me that God did not create first man as a disbeliever. The first creation(Adam) must be worshiper of One true God and all other prophets and messangers before Muhammad(peace be upon him). References of this can be found in Qur'an itself that all prophets brought islam. "And verily, we have sent among every Ummah(nation) a Messenger, (with the command), 'Worship Allah (Alone) and avoid (or Keep away from) At-Taghut (i.e., all false deities)." (Surah 16:36) "And We did not send any Messenger before you but we revealed to them (saying): La Ilaha illa Ana (none has the right to be worshiped but I, So worship Me (God)."(Surah 21:25) "Indeed We have sent Messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance (Justice) that mankind may keep up justice." (Surah 57:25) "Mankind were one community and Allah sent Prophets with glad tidings and warnings, and with them He sent the Scripture in truth to judge between people in matters wherein they differed." (Surah 2:2 13) We can’t find anywhere in the Bible that God revealed the name of His religion as Judaism or Christianity. Christianity itself was named after Jesus Christ while Judaism was named after the tribe of Judah. Both names had no divine origin or approval from God. Islam was brought by our prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Though there were many prophets before him, they brought the same religion, the same concept and the same God, Allah, but with a different name. However for us in the modern times we are obligated to follow the religion that our prophet (pbuh) has brought. Because he is the last messenger of Allah. He was sent to the whole world. Not just Arabs. "Say (O Muhammad): 'O mankind! I am sent to you all as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth there is no God worthy of worship but He; it is He Who gives life and causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e., Muhammad !), who believes in Allah and His Words: follow him that you may be guided." (Surah 7:158) "And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds." (Qur'an 21:107) Quran 4:163 Verily, We have inspired you (O Muhammad SAW) as We inspired Nuh (Noah) and the Prophets after him; We (also) inspired Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma’il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Ya’qub (Jacob), and Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Ya’qub (Jacob)], ‘Iesa (Jesus), Ayub (Job), Yunus (Jonah), Harun (Aaron), and Sulaiman (Solomon), and to Dawud (David) We gave the Zabur (Psalms) And Quran 42:13 He (Allah) has ordained for you the same religion (Islam) which He ordained for Nuh (Noah), and that which We have inspired in you (O Muhammad SAW), and that which We ordained for Ibrahim (Abraham), Musa (Moses) and ‘Iesa (Jesus) saying you should establish religion (i.e. to do what it orders you to do practically), and make no divisions in it (religion) (i.e. various sects in religion). Unlike other prophets and messangers, they were sent to their own people. * However, the Quran also mentions other ancient Prophets of old as first muslim, thereby contradicting itself.Well, I summed it up there. It's not contradiction at all. Please reference logical deduction I gave up there. Ancient prophets were the first Muslims among their people. The reason for this is because their mission was not universal. Let's take people of Israelite for instance. Anytime God sent them a prophet was meant to guide the people to the Right Path. After that prophet completed his mission, before another prophet was sent, the people have distorted message brought by previous prophet. It's was necessary for God to send another prophet or messanger to bring them back to God. This could a generation(s) after. Those people at that time worshiped idols. When a new prophet was sent he became the first Muslim amongst them and so fourth. We saw clear example of that with Moses(peace be upon him). His people in the beginning believed but after Moses, they turned back on their heel. This is just a layman explanation. [size=5pt]Therefore, the Quran mentions that Adam, Noah, the Patriarchs, the twelve tribes of Israel, Moses, Jesus etc., who all lived a long time before Muhammad, as first believers also:I think I summarized everything above. But please if you are not clear enough I can definitely elaborate as time permits. This is very simple thing. It's not contradiction at all. No problem man, take your time & do every research possible on that cos i aint in a rush.[/size]I am glad you not in rush. You gave me too much assignments at a time. I am loving it tough I am sure there are other muslims who could even explain better. We understand this legitimate questions or concerns you brought. It just depends on how individual explains it. Let me give you similar examples to show that they are not contradictions. In Sura 3 verse 33 Verily, Allah chose Adam, and Nuh (Noah), and the family of Ibrahim (Abraham) and the family of ‘Imran (in dignity) above all the people of the world. (Imran:33) Now you may want to ask who was first chosen?. Without inserting anything in the bracket, we muslims understand. For the weak link, that's why some translations insert in the bracket (at their time) Now, look at this as well: O Children of Israel, remember My favor that I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds.(2:47) And O Children of Israel, remember My favor which I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds.(2:122) You may ask the same question like who was first chosen or preferred by God between Adam, Noah, family of Ibrahim, family of Imran and the children of Israel?. The answer is clear that Qur'an is talking about at respected era. In closing, this last verse sums it all. It simply says all prophets and messangers brought One message from God. Many messangers. One message. [size=13pt]“And We did not send any Messenger before you (O Muhammad P.B.U.H) but We revealed to him (saying): Lâ ilâha illa Ana [none has the right to be worshipped but I (Allah)], so worship Me (Alone and none else).”[/size] [Al-Anbiya 21:25] Goodnight. 2 Likes 1 Share
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| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 5:13am On Mar 22, 2015 |
limamintruth:This one "na brainer". Are you ready to succumb and bow out?. To summarize your question Here Is Your Claim: Four, Six or eight days of creation? Sura 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, and 25:59 clearly state that God created "the heavens and the earth" in six days. But in 41:9-12 the detailed description of the creation procedure adds up to eight days. I have to give credit where credit is due. One of the credited translations of these verses is said to be Abdullah Yusuf Ali(God bless him). Although not prefect. I have listen to this over and over again from lecturers and scholars. This will not be addressed twice. Kindly respect that. Thanks Let us look at Ayah (verse) 7:54 "Your Guardian-Lord Is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He established Himself on the Throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil O'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds !" Let us look at Ayah (verse) 10:3 "Verily your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He established Himself on the Throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His leave (Hath been obtained). This is Allah your Lord; Him therefore Serve ye: will ye not receive admonition?" Let us look at Ayah (verse) 11:7 "He (Allah) it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six days and His Throne was over the waters that He mighty try you, which of you is best in conduct. but if thou were to say to them, 'ye shall indeed be raised up after death,' the unbelievers would be sure to say, 'this is nothing but obvious sorcery!'" Let us look at Ayah (verse) 25:59 "He Who created the heavens and the earth and all that is between, in six days, and is firmly established on the Throne (of authority): Allah, Most Gracious: Ask thou, then, about Him of any acquainted (with such things)." Let us look at Ayah (verse) 32:4 "It is Allah Who has Created the heavens and the earth, and all between them, in six days, then He established Himself on the Throne (of authority); ye have none, besides Him, to protect or intercede (for you): Will ye not then receive admonition?" Let us look at Ayat (verses) 41:9-12 "(verse 9) Say: Is it that ye Deny Him (Allah) Who created the earth in two days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the worlds. (verse 10) He set on the (earth) mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (sustenance). (verse 11) Moreover, He Comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: 'Come ye together, Willingly or unwillingly.' They said: 'We do come (together), in willing obedience.' (verse 12) So He completed them as seven firmaments in two days and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We (Allah) adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) The Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge." There is no contradiction in the Noble Verses above. In the above Holy Verses (7:54, 10:3, 11:7, 32:4, and 25:59) we see that Allah Almighty clearly states that He created the universe in six days. Holy Verses (41:9-12) describe the primal creation of our physical earth and the physical heavens around us. If we count the two days mentioned in (41:9), the four days, mentioned in (41:10), and the two days mentioned in (41:12), we get a total of eight days. However, the four days in (41:10) include the two days in (41:9), because the processes described in (41:9-10) form one series. In the one case it is the creation of the formless matter of the earth; and in the other case it is the gradual evolution of the form of the earth, its mountains and seas, and its animal and vegetable life, with the "nourishment in due proportion, (41:10)" proper to each. To further understand the complexity of the creation of the earth, let us look at Ayat (verses) 15:19-20 "And the earth We (Allah) have spread out (Like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance. And We (Allah) have provided therein means of subsistence- for you and for those for whose sustenance ye are not responsible." Majesty, order, beauty, and harmony are shown in all Allah's Creation, but especially in the heavens. Coming nearer to man, Allah's care for man and His goodness are shown (besides His other qualities) in His creation of the earth. In highly poetical language, the earth is described as spread out like a carpet, on which the eternal hills act as weights to keep it steady. Let us also look at Ayah (verse) 13:3 "And it is He (Allah) Who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains, standing firm, and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He (Allah) made in pairs, two and two: He draweth the night as a veil O'er the day. Behold, verily in these things are Signs for those who consider!" Let us also look at Ayah (verse) 16:15 "And He (Allah) has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves," In Holy Verses (15:19-20, 13:3, and 16:15) we see that Allah Almighty took special care in planet earth to provide all the necessary means for us to be able to survive. This shows that the four days in (41:10) include the two days in (41:9), because the processes described in (41:9-10) form one series. Note: (41:9) talks about the creation of earth. (41:10, 13:3, 15:19-20, 13:3, and 16:15) talk about the gradual improvment and gifts from Allah Almighty of earth for us. The creation of earth without its complexity took two days, and the wonderful creations and gifts that Allah Almighty provided for us on earth took another two days. Courtesy: [size=3pt]Dr. Zakir Naik[/size] Dr. Naik captured what you did https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIR4QK7xMTU He even explained better than my post https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Dev0OrSGs My assigment to you is in the Bible, it says God rested (perhaps to drink and take a nap) during His creation of heavens and earth. This is blasphemy. Quran on the other hand refuted such a grotesque statement to be shirk. This is evidence from Bible that God rested Genesis 2:2New King James Version (NKJV) And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Revised Standard Version (RSV) And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done. In Islam we consider this blasphemy. This is very demeaning and insulting. God doesn't sleep nor rest. Allah! There is no god but Allah, He is the Living the Self- subsisting Eternal. No slumber can seize him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permits? He knows what (appears to his creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of his knowledge except as He wills. His throne does extend over the heavens and the earth and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. For He is the Most High the Supreme (in glory). Surah (Chapter) al-Baqarah (The Cow) Qur-an 2:255 Again, It should be emphasized that Islam consider saying that the Lord slept or sleeps as a big unforgiving offense in respect to the Lord the Almighty Creator. Anyone who believes that the Lord the Almighty Creator slept or sleeps put himself in the category of unbeliever and he is responsible for himself at the Day of Judgment when the Lord the Almighty Creator asks him:" Did I sleep? Do I sleep? How I sleep? Prepare your answer for that big day. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by limamintruth: 12:13pm On Mar 22, 2015 |
Empiree: But why do you do this to yourself? I only asked a very simple & straighforward question, hence, i expected your reply to have been simple & straighforward also. But all you did was to beat around the bush and you still ended up not answering my question. I didnt ask you to form a personal opinion of who the first muslim is, rather the question was: Who was the first muslim ACCORDING TO THE QURAN (if really you are acquainted with the quran well enough ) ?So why is your lengthy answer solely based on opinion? Empiree: Please how do these quranic verses you cited above answer my simple answer of who the first muslim is for God's sake Empiree The quran refers to so many individuals as 'first', so isnt there any other Quranic verse that clearly highlights who is the 'overall' first? Empiree: Unfortunately, the two verses above quoted by you even contradict each other sef. Maybe you need to call them Rilwane & co. on this one oooo, lol Empiree: So are you insinuating now that according to Quran, the earth was created in 4 days by God? Remember though that my question was simply: How many days was the Heavens & earth created by God according to your Quran? (so kindly answer this clearly pls )Empiree: Yea, I agree with you that unlike your quran(that has lots of contradictory verses ), the Holy Bible message is clear & unambigous on the number of days God created the heavens & earth Everyone can clearly see that from the Bible verse you quoted above And i can see how you'v suddenly moved from the issue of contradictions to blasphemy right? Thank God we are heading somewhere then Well in response to your assumption, the Bible never said anything about God 'sleeping'; rather, we are told God RESTED on the '7th day' after creation. Remember falsifying Biblical facts wont do your argument any good. Empiree: So are you insinuating now that according to Quran, the earth was created in 4 days by God? Remember though that my question was simply: How many days was the Heavens & earth created by God according to your Quran? (so kindly answer this clearly pls )Empiree: Yea, I agree with you that unlike your quran(that has lots of contradictory verses ), the Holy Bible message is clear & unambigous on the number of days God created the heavens & earth Everyone can clearly see that from the Bible verse you quoted above And i can see how you'v suddenly moved from the issue of contradictions to blasphemy right? Thank God we are heading somewhere then Well in response to your assumption, the Bible never said anything about God 'sleeping'; rather, we are told God RESTED on the '7th day' after creation. Remember falsifying Biblical facts wont do your argument any good. Note that the word 'rest' doesnt necessarily mean or translate to 'sleep'. The term 'rest' as used in the Bible, simply signifies 'a moment of refreshing ease or inactivity after labour' or betterstill, 'a period or interval of inactivity, solitude, or tranquillity'. Thus, there's nothing blasphemous about saying God rested bro. It only shows an end to God's creation work. It is greatly preposterous to think that God Almighty sleeps. David himself confirmed thus: ◄Psalm 121:4 ► NIV "Indeed, He who watches over Israel will neither slumber nor sleep." Empiree: Lol, I dont remember asking Dr. Zakir Naik any question. But i'm happy he came to your rescue, though my question hasnt still been answered. |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 12:38pm On Mar 22, 2015 |
[quote author=limamintruth post=31880751] So why is your lengthy answer solely based on opinion?Lol...NOT MY PERSONAL OPINION Please how do these quranic verses you cited above answer my simple answer of who the first muslim is for God's sakeVery simple. Adam was the first creation and the first Muslim. That's why I gave you definitions with explanation instead of just giving you simple answer. What I did was "system of meaning". Can't help you if you still dont get it. Unfortunately, the two verses above quoted by you even contradict each other sef.Not contradiction. Probably they are unrelated. I must have posted the later by accident. So are you insinuating now that according to Quran, the earth was created in 4 days by God?No bro. 6 Days Remember though that my question was simply: How many days was the Heavens & earth created by God according to your Quran? (so kindly answer this clearly plsIsn't good to explain somethings sometimes for better understanding rather than short answer. I know if i gave simple answer you would definitely complained again. Yea, I agree with you that unlike your quran(that has lots of contradictory versesNope, we have no contradiction. That's why i said earlier that this is brainer. kindly re-read or watch the video again. The video was added to aid your understanding. And i can see how you'v suddenly moved from the issue of contradictions to blasphemy right?Dont worry about it. Just brought it up as your assignment Well in response to your assumption, the Bible never said anything about God 'sleeping'; rather, we are told God RESTED on the '7th day' after creation. Remember falsifying Biblical facts wont do your argument any good.Lol, you funny. You still repeated it. It's blasphemy. I beg stop it. God doesnt REST NOR SLEEP So are you insinuating now that according to Quran, the earth was created in 4 days by God?No "6 Days" Note that the word 'rest' doesnt necessarily mean or translate to 'sleep'.It's blaphsemy altogether. God Almighty doesnt rest, slumber sleep. These are human qualities. Please stop saying this. This is just one of the many misconceptions of God in christianity It is greatly preposterous to think that God Almighty sleeps.Bro...Prophet David could NEVER said that. That's fabrication. I know christians dont understand concept of God Lol, I dont remember asking Dr. Zakir Naik any question. But i'm happy he came to your rescue, though my question hasnt still been answered.Just brought his video up for assisting aid. Yes, if you said so because his explanation was very clear 1 Like |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by limamintruth: 1:53pm On Mar 22, 2015 |
Empiree: |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 2:21pm On Mar 22, 2015 |
[quote author=limamintruth post=31883200][/quote]No problem. Have a great day |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 6:29pm On Mar 22, 2015 |
Even the Quran shows Jesus to be more UNIQUE than any other ‘prophet’ yet this FACT is ignored by millions of Muslims who should accord him the reverence he deserves by accepting him as their saviour. Instead Empiree, Rilwayne001, and Co are busy arguing about non-essentials while their eternal destinies are at stake. 3 UNPARALLED UNIQUE THINGS ABOUT JESUS Jesus birth was unique and supernatural: - Sura 3:45 – 47 Jesus performed miracles, signs and wonders: - Sura 3: 49; 5:110 Jesus ascended to heaven, so the end of his life was unique and supernatural: - Sura 3:55 Therefore Christ’s life was unique and supernatural. Jesus died on the cross, so that we might have forgiveness of our sins, and also rose from the grave, and conquered death. Wouldn’t these – his unique and supernatural birth, his unique and supernatural life and his unique and supernatural end of his life – make him the ONLY PERSON who ever lived and had all these UNPARALLELED qualities in these three areas COMBINED and not just in one or two? Do these not make him the MOST UNIQUE and supernatural person that ever lived? Does that not demand an UNEQUALED response to him from you? Truly that (responding to him by believing on him as SAVIOUR) will be the starting point to knowing him more and understanding the Bible. Any other thing will be beating about the bush or groping in the DARK. 1 Like |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 6:44pm On Mar 22, 2015 |
Nice try...[quote author=plainbibletruth post=31892462] Even the Quran shows Jesus to be more UNIQUE than any other ‘prophet’ yet this FACT is ignored by millions of Muslims who should accord him the reverence he deserves by accepting him as their saviour.ok. let's see 3 UNPARALLED UNIQUE THINGS ABOUT JESUSOkay. We first need to difine what "unparalleled" and "unique" mean. Unparalled simply means exceptional, having no equal etc unique means being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else. Now let's take a look at your assertions Jesus birth was unique and supernatural:Click the link for the verses http://quran.com/3/45-47 simply means he was born without father. But he has mother, Mary. Now let's take a look at Adam. He has no father and mother. Quran speaks: "Truly, the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He created him of dust, then said He unto him, 'Be,' and he was." (Sura 3:59) So Jesus had at least mother. Adam had none. So Adam's creation is more unique in this sense. Now let's take a look at the Bible, the tale of Melchizedek. Bible described him. King James Version (KJV) Hebrews 7:1-4 1- For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2- To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3- Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. 4- Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. So it's clear from both Qur'an and the Bible that despite Jesus unique birth, there are others who were more unique and unparalled than Jesus because: Adam and Jesus had the beginning Adam had no father, no mother Jesus had a mother Melchizedek on the other hand had no beginning, no genealogy, no father no mother yet he is also called son of God Your claimed refuted here. Jesus performed miracles, signs and wonders:"[The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when you designed from clay [what was] like the form of a bird with My permission, then you breathed into it, and it became a bird with My permission; and you healed the blind and the leper with My permission; and when you brought forth the dead with My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from [killing] you when you came to them with clear proofs and those who disbelieved among them said, "This is not but obvious magic." Click here: http://quran.com/5/110 Click here http://quran.com/3/49 "And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah. And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah. And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers." So in the verses above, we muslims do not dispute Jesus performed miracles, But he did so with help of God. The verses are so clear. Now let's look into Bible other prophets that performed miracles. Elijah: James 5:17 ->Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months. 1 Kings 17:14-16 -> "For thus says the LORD God of Israel, 'The bowl of flour shall not be exhausted, nor shall the jar of oil be empty, until the day that the LORD sends rain on the face of the earth.'" So she went and did according to the word of Elijah, and she and he and her household ate for many days. The bowl of flour was not exhausted nor did the jar of oil become empty, according to the word of the LORD which He spoke through Elijah. 1 Kings 17:22-23 The LORD heard the voice of Elijah, and the life of the child returned to him and he revived. Elijah took the child and brought him down from the upper room into the house and gave him to his mother; and Elijah said, "See, your son is alive." 1 Kings 18:36 At the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet came near and said, "O LORD, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, today let it be known that You are God in Israel and that I am Your servant and I have done all these things at Your word. 2 Kings 1:10-12 Elijah replied to the captain of fifty, "If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty " Then fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty. So he again sent to him another captain of fifty with his fifty. And he said to him, "O man of God, thus says the king, 'Come down quickly.'" Elijah replied to them, "If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty." Then the fire of God came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty. 1 Kings 18:41-45 Now Elijah said to Ahab, "Go up, eat and drink; for there is the sound of the roar of a heavy shower." So Ahab went up to eat and drink. But Elijah went up to the top of Carmel; and he crouched down on the earth and put his face between his knees. He said to his servant, "Go up now, look toward the sea." So he went up and looked and said, "There is nothing." And he said, "Go back" seven times. read more.It came about at the seventh time, that he said, "Behold, a cloud as small as a man's hand is coming up from the sea." And he said, "Go up, say to Ahab, 'Prepare your chariot and go down, so that the heavy shower does not stop you.'" In a little while the sky grew black with clouds and wind, and there was a heavy shower. And Ahab rode and went to Jezreel. - 2 Kings 2:8 Elijah took his mantle and folded it together and struck the waters, and they were divided here and there, so that the two of them crossed over on dry ground. Elisha also performed miracles. Let's stop here. So other prophets also have unparalleled qualities of Jesus(peace be upon him) Jesus ascended to heaven, so the end of his life was unique and supernatural:http://quran.com/3/55 "[Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ." So in the Quran verse above, God raised him up. Jesus did not raise himself. According to your Bible, Jesus did not ascend. He was killed. John 19 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+19 Elijah Ascends to Heaven 2 Kings 2 New King James Version (NKJV) And it came to pass, when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. 2 Then Elijah said to Elisha, “Stay here, please, for the Lord has sent me on to Bethel.” So here according to your Bible Jesus was murdered. Elijah on the other hand ascended to heaven. So here we see Elijah has same unparalleled qualities like Jesus. Therefore Christ’s life was unique and supernatural.Nonsense! Wouldn’t these – his unique and supernatural birth, his unique and supernatural life and his unique and supernatural end of his life – make him the ONLY PERSON who ever lived and had all these UNPARALLELED qualities in these three areas COMBINED and not just in one or two?Irrelevant. Reference above. You are refuted. Any other thing will be beating about the bush or groping in the DARK.Remove the mole from your eyes. Embrace Islam. Jesus is not Lord. He was a prophet and messanger. Therefore, there were others like him. 2 Likes 1 Share
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| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 11:22pm On Mar 23, 2015 |
Empiree: That was a fair attempt! But you missed out one simple thing: The FACTS of the virgin pregnancy and birth, the miracles and the ascension of Jesus Christ make him the MOST UNIQUE and SUPERNATURAL PERSON who ever lived because he is the ONLY ONE that has or combines ALL these three attributes put together. So by your amplification - Unparalled simply means exceptional, having no equal etc Note again what I said: he is the ONLY ONE that has or combines ALL these three attributes put together in one person. I challenge you to show otherwise. NONE of all those you attempted has ALL THREE put together in ONE PERSON! In spite of this Muslims still don’t accord him the high place he deserves. Now do you get it? Jesus Christ is therefore more than a prophet or a messenger. Jesus Christ is saviour and Lord of all! 1 Like |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 4:30am On Mar 24, 2015 |
[quote author=plainbibletruth post=31935067] [size=5pt]The FACTS of the virgin pregnancy and birth, the miracles and the ascension of Jesus Christ make him the MOST UNIQUE and SUPERNATURAL PERSON who ever lived because he is the ONLY ONE that has or combines ALL these three attributes put together.[/size]Basically, you are telling here indirectly that my analysis given earlier was indeed correct. Your concern seems to be ALL 3 uniqueness make him Lord i:e God, right? Now do you get it?Basically, you trying to do me "wayo". I will explain how. Remember when you first started this conversation, you came up with Quran evidences to back up your claims that: Jesus was born miraculously, performed miracles, ascended to heaven. Jesus Christ is therefore more than a prophet or a messenger. Jesus Christ is saviour and Lord of all!Okay. Let me remind you that you began by presenting evidences. Therefore, I will only ask you one question that will put you off. I challenge you to show otherwise.Whether you are comfortable with my earlier analysis or not, that's just simple facts. Now, your concern is Jesus had all three qualities that none else had. Therefore, he must be savior and God of all according to you. My attempt here first is to prove from your Bible what Jesus was called and accepted. Jesus the prophet (of God) Matthew 21:11 The crowds answered, "This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee." Luke 7:16 They all were filled with fear and praised God. “A great prophet has appeared among us!” John 4:19 “I see you are a prophet, sir,” the woman said. Jesus also alluded to Himself as a prophet in Mark 6:4. Jesus said to them, “Prophets are respected everywhere except in their own hometown and by their relatives and their family.” Ephesians 2:20 You, too, are built upon the foundation laid by the apostles and prophets, the cornerstone being Christ Jesus himself. Now, let's see here. Jesus is called servant, man (of God) Acts 3:26 And so God chose his Servant and sent him to you first, to bless you by making every one of you turn away from your wicked ways.” Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.” This passage confirms exactly what Qur'an says Imran 49 "And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah. And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah. Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus, whom you delivered over and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release him. Acts 3:26 God, having raised up his servant, sent him to you first, to bless you by turning every one of you from your wickedness.” Acts 4:27 for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, Matthew 12:18 "Behold my servant, whom I have chosen." Let me stop here. Now, here is God Almighty claiming He is the Only Lord and Savior. "Ye are My witnesses, saith the Lord, and My servant whom I have Chosen: that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I AM He: before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me. I, even I, AM the Lord; and beside Me, There is No Saviour." Here, Jesus admitted God is Greater than him John 14:28 You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. Here Mark downgraded Jesus miracles Mark 6:5: And he could do no mighty work there, except that he laid his hands on a few sick people and healed them. Definitely what you cooked up there is your own opinion without universal evidence to back it up. My final question. If you can't answer it, that's it. I repeat, when you first started, you came up with evidences from Qur'an to back your claims. My question is, Where did Jesus say in the Bible that because he's "unique", "unparalleled", as a result of his (combined) "ALL these three attributes put together", therefore he is saviour and Lord of all! 2 Likes |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 8:43pm On Mar 24, 2015 |
Empiree: I’m amazed! I’m amazed because I believe you should be smarter. The very first issue I presented is the uniqueness of Jesus from the Quran. Is this a fact or not? The FACTS of the virgin pregnancy and birth, the miracles and the ascension of Jesus Christ IN ONE PERSON. Is there anybody who combines all the three attributes I listed in one person? You did not address this. I believe I was plain on what I presented; so I don’t know the “wayo” you’re talking about. In addition I didn’t say Jesus Christ was not a prophet or a messenger. Not at all! I only added that he was more than those. He combined those offices and much more. So your quotes did not really disprove anything. You haven’t proved my challenge wrong. Simply this: show any other person who has or combines ALL these three attributes put together in one person. It is not about cooking up my own opinion. I’m saying that evidence from your holy book, the Quran, shows clearly the uniqueness of Jesus Christ. The issue then is why has this fact escaped Muslims like yourself? Strange? When the evidence from the Quran about Jesus is accepted by any Muslim it becomes easy to then go to the more comprehensive source of information about him – the Bible – to get details on him that show him for who he truly is. So on your question; the Gospels in the following portions give answer: As Lord – John 8:58, 11:25, 13:13-14. Luke 6:5, 22:67-70, 23:3. Additionally the book of Revelation 1:8. As Saviour – John 10:11, 15. These are clearly Jesus’ own words and claims. 2 Likes |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by malvisguy212: 10:35pm On Mar 24, 2015 |
plainbibletruth:arguing with him is a waste of time, Jesus was the only prophet in the quran who is the word and spirit of God, non other prophet has ever been adress like that before. 1 Like |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 10:53pm On Mar 24, 2015 |
Don't be amazed. I delibrately ignored it becuase you make no sense. And since you iterate you got your evidences from Qur'an, then let's see what Quran says about status of Jesus before God and muslims. Quran says: Jesus was no more than a messanger(prophet). Sura 5:75 "The Messiah (the son of Mary) was NO MORE THAN A MESSANGER. Many were messangers that passed away before him His mother was siddiqah(she believe in the word of Allah and His Books). The both used to eat (as human do but Allah does not eat). Look how We make the signs clear to them, yet look at how they are diluded away from the Truth" As for his uniqueness you talked about, Quran say it merely a sign for mnakind. And that his similitude is that of Adam. Sura 3:59-60 The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam. He created him from dust and then said to him "Be! and he was". The truth (comes) from Allah alone; so be not of those who doubt". So from Qur'an it's clear that Jesus is 100% human being, a messnager and prophet of God. Nothing more. And his status as God's servant can never be undermined by Muslims. Now, on the issue of him being called God in your Bible, then, you have to agree with me that your Bible contradicts itself if you think Jesus is God when your same Bible called him prophet, servant. Besides, places he's called God/god in the bible it's Bible writers and others that called him by that. So it is your persnal doctrine to think because Jesus had those 3 unparralled attritubes he's more than prophet. Prove to me from your Bible that Jesus said that. Very simple question. As for "returning to source" according to you, which source exactly?. Bible?. Now let's see. Show me where in the Bible Jesus said he was given Bible Show me where in the Bible it called itself bible Show me in the bible where it says this is the bible "according to Jesus" And which bible exactly because you have many of them. I can name them if you want. plainbibletruth: 2 Likes |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 11:19pm On Mar 24, 2015 |
Empiree: I was not the one who brought up the issue you are raising. My claim is simply this: According to the Quran - Jesus birth was unique and supernatural: - Sura 3:45 – 47 Jesus performed miracles, signs and wonders: - Sura 3: 49; 5:110 Jesus ascended to heaven, so the end of his life was unique and supernatural: - Sura 3:55 Therefore Christ’s life was unique and supernatural. The FACTS of the virgin pregnancy and birth, the miracles and the ascension of Jesus Christ make him the MOST UNIQUE and SUPERNATURAL PERSON who ever lived because he is the ONLY ONE that has or combines ALL these three attributes put together. However this fact seems to have escaped Muslims like yourself. You revere Mohammed: You give him deferential honour. Yet Jesus who was more unique in the ways pointed out above is given only a second place (or perhaps third or fourth or … … place?) by you. Does that not seem strange? |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 11:49pm On Mar 24, 2015 |
plainbibletruth:Your argument is straw one. And this is surely becoming annular argument. I said earlier that you tried to do me "wayo" which means fraud. And i used the same method against you that you should show me in the bible "WHERE JESUS SAID BECAUSE HE WAS GIVEN THESE THREE (3) UNPARRALLED AND UNIUE ATTRIBUTES, HE IS SAVIOR AND LORD OF ALL?". You are unable to provide such evidence. And when you talked about his miracles, I showed verses from Quran and Bible that Jesus did not perform those miracles. It was God Almighty who performed miracles through him. Jesus himself said in your Bible "I can on my own DO NOTHING" Yet, you still adamant. We as muslims have no problem with those attributes Quran attributed to Jesus(peace be upon him). And it is the same Quran that tells us those attributes dont make him Lord and savior of the world. As a matter of fact, he was sent ONLY to Israelites. Very simple. 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by plainbibletruth: 11:31pm On Mar 25, 2015 |
Empiree: My goal is simple – to open your eyes to see that from your Quran if the facts of the virgin pregnancy and birth, the miracles and the ascension of Jesus Christ in one person are clearly, honestly and logically considered you will come to no other conclusion than that he is unique. Thankfully you have not disproved that. What you are yet to do is to give the reasonable response to that conclusion. If you Muslims have no problem with these attributes, like you said, how come you don’t accord him the reverence he deserves for having God work those unsurpassed things through him which literally make him STAND OUT head and shoulders above other prophets? How come? |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 3:46am On Mar 26, 2015 |
[quote author=plainbibletruth post=32007205][size=7pt][/size]Mine is simplest. to open your eyes to see that from your Quran if the facts of the virgin pregnancy and birth, the miracles and the ascension of Jesus Christ in one person are clearly, honestly and logically considered you will come to no other conclusion than that he is unique.You just repeating yourself. You are not saying anything new. That's why I said earlier that you tried to do me "wayo". I dont need you to tell me what Qur'an says. As a matter of fact you dug a hole for yourself. Since you made those claims/evidences from Qur'an, you should then believe in Quran. Simple isn't? What you are yet to do is to give the reasonable response to that conclusion.Honestly, you just repeating yourself and I wont respond to you after this if you fail to grab it. Your logical deduction have no proof. Now I will try to keep it very simple as possible. You provided those unique evidences from Qur'an. And you said because Jesus had those "3 combined unparalleled/unique attributes", therefore he must be more than just prophet. And i gave you Qur'anic evidence that he was simply a prophet, servant, messanger. Very simple and supported with evidences Jesus said: He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet. (19:30, Yusif Ali) "O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah,..." (4:171, Yusif Ali) "Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him....." (5:75, Yusif Ali) Now, your claim that: If you Muslims have no problem with these attributes, like you said, how come you don’t accord him the reverence he deservesQur'an, Islam and Muslims already accorded him respect he deserved. Anytime his name is mentioned, we say PEACE BE UPON HIM. Very simple. Qur'an says with respect to honoring Jesus(pbuh). Qur'an 3:45 "(And Mentioned) when Angels said; "Oh Mary, Allah give you good news of a word from Him. whose name will be messaiah, Jesus, the son of Mary HELD HONOR IN THIS WORLD AND LIFEAFTER and among those who are brought near (to Allah)" for having God work those unsurpassed things through him which literally make him STAND OUT head and shoulders above other prophets? How come?You can't just talk. You have to bring up evidence. First all, Quran prohibit making distinction between God's prophets. Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him." 3:84 Secondly, it's said that there are 144,000 prophets and messangers sent by God. Of all these, only 25 most powerful are mentioned in the Quran. And from the 25 there are "special five" called Ulul'azm Anbiya' (Arch-Prophets) singled out to be extremely powerful with strong will and determination. He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish the religion and not be divided therein. Difficult for those who associate others with Allah is that to which you invite them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back [to Him].(Qur'an 42:13) See the last bold part (green) clearly describes you. That's exactly the reason you dont understand. Read further... "And [mention, O Muhammad], when We took from the prophets their covenant and from you and from Noah and Abraham and Moses and Jesus, the son of Mary; and We took from them a solemn covenant." ^This Ayah begins with the last Prophet, as a token of respect, may the blessings of Allah be upon him, then the names of the other Prophets are given in order, may the blessings of Allah be upon them. Ibn `Abbas said: "The strong covenant is Al-`Ahd (the covenant). So there is no evidence from Qur'an to suggest that Jesus was more than a prophet. You can't just tell me to accept your wack logical deduction without evidence to back it up. Now here is my logical question which i asked you before. Show me evidence that Jesus said he is more than a prophet, servant and messanger of God?. Simple, isn't?. Your "wayo" that Jesus has combined attributes make him God is your personal theory.Answer that question @boldblue. Sidenote: You may need to read Michael Hart's Top 100 Most Influential Persons In History He rated: Moses #4 Jesus #3 Apostle Paul #2 Muhammad#1 Michael Hart himself is a christian born in NYC. He was asked by Christian scholars why he rated Paul above Jesus?. He replied that Jesus didnt write any book, he didn't do lots of work, he didnt create Christianity. He said Paul created Christianity in his name to earn reputation. Therefore, Jesus did not deserve to earn second position according to him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100:_A_Ranking_of_the_Most_Influential_Persons_in_History http://www.islamicbulletin.org/free_downloads/new_muslim/100_most_influential.pdf 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 5:43am On Mar 26, 2015 |
Empiree: I have told you many times to stop copying and pasting. I have seen this false argument appear numerous times on the Islam section. You copied this argument. Micheal Hart is not a credible news organisation. I wonder why you use him to praise your religion. Anyone who puts Paul before Christ in christianity does not know what he/she is doing. Jesus's teaching is the basis for christianity not Paul's Stop making ignorant comments. |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by joseph1832(m): 7:08am On Mar 26, 2015 |
Empiree you might want to know that what you stated is Michael Hart's personal opinion. And last I checked his opinion doesn't really equal to fact!. Besides you might even ask him when Christians pray, do they do so in the name of Paul? Or do they summon and call upon the blood of paul?. Michael Hart's opinion is narrow minded in my opinion. |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 12:30pm On Mar 26, 2015 |
[quote author=joseph1832 post=32011332]Empire.e you might want to know that what you stated is Michael Hart's personal opinion.Indeed, his personal opinion. Besides you might even ask him when Christians pray, do they do so in the name of Paul? Or do they summon and call upon the blood of paul?.Indeed, Christians pray in the name of Jesus. However, Mr. Hart is still right. Question is did Jesus instructed Christians to pray in his name?. Did Jesus instructed his followers to be called Christians?. These are Paul handiworks. AllNaijaBlogger: I have told you many times to stop copying and pasting.Everything is copy/paste to you. Does this look copy and pate to you again?. I only copied the links. Besides, what's the big deal doing that? I have seen this false argument appear numerous times on the Islam section. You copied this argument. Micheal Hart is not a credible news organisation. I wonder why you use him to praise your religion.Of-course, you could have seen it a million times. Who cares!. Well, that Michael Hart is not credible is your personal opinion. I only used him as a reference here. It doesnt bother me a bit. Anyone who puts Paul before Christ in christianity does not know what he/she is doing. Jesus's teaching is the basis for Christianity not Paul'sI definitely agree with Michael Hart on this because clearly, clearly, Paul created Christianity. Therefore, he has the right to take credit for it. Your statement that Jesus' teaching is basis of Christianity is true by 1/3. Stop making ignorant comments.#yeyeman. Everything is ignorant. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 3:05pm On Mar 26, 2015 |
Empiree: What are the three most important teachings in Christianity? -love thy neighbour -turn the other cheek -the only way to the Father is through Jesus All from Jesus. Paul's teaching was mostly concerned with the early church and apostles. You know nothing about Christianity and yet you accuse Christianity of different things. Please shut up. I bet you haven't even read Paul's teachings. The central message of Christianity is from Jesus. |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 4:35pm On Mar 26, 2015 |
E wooooooooo You telling me these are basic tenets Jesus came with? Gosh! Mr. naijablogger no go kill person. Now, let me analyze;LOVE YOUR NAIBOR: That's long gone. Percentage of christians who practice this today are pretty much less than 0.01%. The phrase is easier said than done. We see sample of that on NL everyday with your fellow christians who dont want to live and let's live. TURN THE OTHER CHEEK: There is no way i can say this without huge laughter You know this one na big joke deep inside your heart. NL is indeed typical example of everything christianity stands for. In the case here though, you dont even turn other cheek, you go on offensive mission on Islam section. Many christians who go there to post something on topics usually curse, post porn*pix, curse our prophet, blasphemy against God, the list goes on. So far, i havent seen how you people abide by these so called Jesus mission needless to say international community. You dey make me laugh brother.THE ONLY WAY TO FATHER IS THROUGH JESUS: This is indeed correct with respect to people he was sent to (Israelite), NOT you. Just like other prophets and messangers were sent to specific people. Now, according to Qur'an and your Bible, the first commandment Jesus brought was to worship One God. QUR'AN: Imran(3:51) Jesus said, "Indeed God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. This is the straight Path (Islamic monotheism) BIBLE: Mark 12:29 "The most important one, Jesus answered, Hear Oh Israel! The God our God is One;.." Luke 4:8 "Jesus answered; 'It is written: You shall worship the Lord Your God and serve Him only" So according to you the three most important 'commandments' you posted are in conflict with what Quran and Bible said of Jesus' foremost commandments. You are missing the Most Important one. It's not in your list. So you can see why I said Paul invented christianity?. You contradict your own Bible. AllNaijaBlogger: 2 Likes 1 Share |
41:9)talks about the creation of earth.(41:10, 13:3, 15:19-20, 13:3, and 16:15)talk about the gradual improvment and gifts from Allah Almighty of earth for us. The creation of earth without its complexity took two days, and the wonderful creations and gifts that Allah Almighty provided for us on earth took another two days. (1) (2) (3) ... (9) (10) (11) (12) (13) (14) (15) ... (26) (Reply)
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