The God of our fathers is God and the Word
the Word became Jesus
Some, being told what to believe cannot understand
and go round and around in circles.

johnw74:

The God of our fathers is God and the Word

Consider ur statement, " God and the Word" , whom do u just refer to as God ? Truth is staring at u in d eyes

- can u show me this statement directly from the bible. " the God of our fathers is God and the Word" ? Where is such written in the bible ?

How many times will this issue of jesus been the same person with God go on? I perceive the op of this thread as something personal against JW. Countless of times in the Bible,God and jesus are ALWAYS described as SEPERATE individuals. Most interesting,is that the bible put jesus or paint jesus as been surbodinate to God(image of God not God,1st born of all Creation,Son of God,the one sent by God,etc) Countless of times Jesus himself admitted and testified that the father is greater than he is,he was sent by God,he doesn't do any of his own initiative but of His father's,hmmm,I can go on and on. Yo,op,take ma advice: admit the JW clearly have thrashed u wit the Bible,they've proved their belief from the Bible,and they are Clearly and by far 200% correct. So bingo,or watever ur name is,pls stop hating,accept the truth at least for once in ur entire freaking life.if u got a prob wit JW(whom I know are peace loving) pls sort it out and stop attacking them with stupid,baseless,annoying,unreasonable post and thread. JW's pls take ma advice: ignore this fella and focus on truth loving people of the word of God.

joviegghead:
How many times will this issue of jesus been the same person with God go on? I perceive the op of this thread as something personal against JW. Countless of times in the Bible,God and jesus are ALWAYS described as SEPERATE individuals. Most interesting,is that the bible put jesus or paint jesus as been surbodinate to God(image of God not God,1st born of all Creation,Son of God,the one sent by God,etc) Countless of times Jesus himself admitted and testified that the father is greater than he is,he was sent by God,he doesn't do any of his own initiative but of His father's,hmmm,I can go on and on. Yo,op,take ma advice: admit the JW clearly have thrashed u wit the Bible,they've proved their belief from the Bible,and they are Clearly and by far 200% correct. So bingo,or watever ur name is,pls stop hating,accept the truth at least for once in ur entire freaking life.if u got a prob wit JW(whom I know are peace loving) pls sort it out and stop attacking them with stupid,baseless,annoying,unreasonable post and thread. JW's pls take ma advice: ignore this fella and focus on truth loving people of the word of God.

thank u

CAPTIVATOR:


Consider ur statement, " God and the Word" , whom do u just refer to as God ? Truth is staring at u in d eyes

- can u show me this statement directly from the bible. " the God of our fathers is God and the Word" ? Where is such written in the bible ?

God, is God and the Word, John 1:1

who other can be the God of our Fathers, when God and the Word is God

You believe contrary to scriptures that say the Word is God, you say the Word is a god
plenty of scripture has been given you
still round and around you go again

joviegghead

if u got a prob wit JW(whom I know are peace loving)

ha ha
I invited two jw's into my home and gave them my best seats while I sat on the floor

the woman kept staring at me as if i was the devil
such hate, how would I think they have anything to do with God

I heard jw's talk about, how at armageddon after everyone but them are killed, they are going to take the best houses
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

jw's came to see me at another time, saying Jesus is coming soon
or something like that
I said no thanks I have my own beliefs and I know about the end times

one of them said you only know about the end times because you know the Lords prayer

they think they know all about you, and they falsely accuse

one thing I am certain off (know), is that jw's
do not have God's Holy Spirit
and how could they, they don't know Him

johnw74:




ha ha
I invited two jw's into my home and gave them my best seats while I sat on the floor

the woman kept staring at me as if i was the devil
such hate, how would I think they have anything to do with God

Your opinion! Why would they hate you like you were the devil? Did you have a personal beef with her before the visit?

You are Generalising!

johnw74:

I heard jw's talk about, how at armageddon after everyone but them are killed, they are going to take the best houses
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Best houses of who? Do you really know what Armaggeddon is? God only promise the survival of Souls/persons not the material properties of people or did Noah and his sons claim the best houses after the destruction of the world.

Scripture promises those who will be in paradise- will build houses and stay in it, they will not build and another person will claim it.

Do people covert the property of a dead man- after his death? I am curious to know.

johnw74:

jw's came to see me at another time, saying Jesus is coming soon
or something like that
I said no thanks I have my own beliefs and I know about the end times

I am sure those who are familiar with JW teachings can see through the bold section. The bold section is affiliated with penticostal churches.

When you want to lie- do your research first (Visit www.jw.org)

johnw74:

one of them said you only know about the end times because you know the Lords prayer

they think they know all about you, and they falsely accuse

Stop Generalising!
You should know better!!

johnw74:

one thing I am certain off (know), is that jw's
do not have God's Holy Spirit
and how could they, they don't know Him

If JW don't have God's Holy spirit their preaching work would have ended a long time ago nor would it have attracted Millions into the Christian organisation. Such growth in JW members is only possible with God's help.

RikoduoSennin:


I am sure those who are familiar with JW teachings can see through the bold section. The bold section is affiliated with penticostal churches.

When you want to lie- do your research first (Visit www.jw.org)

I have no reason at all to lie

and you have absolutely nothing good to say

johnw74:


I have no reason at all to lie

and you have absolutely nothing good to say

Really, When you said the statement "Jesus is coming soon" was said by a JW member, what do you expect people who know JW well to say. JW don't go around saying things like that, try listen to them well.

There is a reason why you could lie about them- because you are bias to their beliefs.

Maamin:


Just take a look;

How can they be two persons and yet they are one, the father is not the son and yet they are the same God..

johnw74, is tongue twisting here!

Here is a question for you.
How can husband and wife be two person but yet they are one?
The wife is not the husband and the husband is not the wife yet they are one, how can that be?

RikoduoSennin:


People with "open mind" ask Questions, reason on things, you don't do these. So because Jesus told his disciples what to believe and what to say- they are brain washed is that it?

Do not be deceived, each JW reason on the truth and accept it as such on their own free will.




Do you see that bold section- Jesus did not say, He who has seen me has seen GOD also. That would have been easy for his disciples to understand. So that someone like Thomas would not have doubted Jesus resurrection because HE WAS GOD himself, don't you think.

But John 1:18 " No man hath seen GOD at any time"- it did not say "No man hath seen "the Father" at any time did it?"

Jesus then explain who is Called God at John 6:46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father".

Who then is the Father?

RikoduoSennin:


The Bible and JW says Jesus is a God separate from the God of Isreal/Almighty God - Acts 5:30 "The God of our Fathers raised up Jesus whom ye slew and hanged on a tree".

You see, Jesus is not the God of our Fathers (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob)

That a lie. The Bible says Jesus is God.
" 1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (2Pet 1:1)
But JW says Jesus is not God.
So Who is correct?

CAPTIVATOR:


Consider ur statement, " God and the Word" , whom do u just refer to as God ? Truth is staring at u in d eyes

- can u show me this statement directly from the bible. " the God of our fathers is God and the Word" ? Where is such written in the bible ?

You keep emphasizing on "God and the Word" but ignore "the Word was God".
This is exactly what JW do; they emphasize the part of the Bible that seem to agree with their doctrine and the ignore or try to twist the part of the Bible that don't fit into their doctrine.

Pure deception.

RikoduoSennin:


If JW don't have God's Holy spirit their preaching work would have ended a long time ago nor would it have attracted Millions into the Christian organisation. Such growth in JW members is only possible with God's help.

May be the Satanist also have God's Holy Spirit because they keep growing despite the stereotypes, prejudice and hatred attached to Satan.

Hiswordxray:

Here is a question for you.
How can husband and wife be two person but yet they are one?
The wife is not the husband and the husband is not the wife yet they are one, how can that be?

What are you really driving at?

Trinity co-equality says they are three separate entities i.e the father is not the son or holy spirit, the son is not the father or holy spirit,the holy spirit is not father or the son and yet they are co-equal and one.

But they fail to understand that all things came from God the father including the holy spirit and christ the son. There is no where in the bible the son or holy spirit sends the father but it has always been the father sending the holy spirit and the son,yet the trinity doctrine claims they are co-equal.

Now finally to answer your question. We all know that the 'one' referred to as in the case of husband and wife is not as a single entity but as in 'one in purpose'..though they are separate persons but one in goal and purpose of marriage union.

Now let me ask you, when Jesus says that 'he is one with the father so as the disciples should be one in him..' does that make the disciple co-equal as God to? Are they now part of the Godhead too?

Maamin:


What are you really driving at?

Trinity co-equality says they are three separate entities i.e the father is not the son or holy spirit, the son is not the father or holy spirit,the holy spirit is not father or the son and yet they are co-equal and one.

But they fail to understand that all things came from God the father including the holy spirit and christ the son. There is no where in the bible the son or holy spirit sends the father but it has always been the father sending the holy spirit and the son,yet the trinity doctrine claims they are co-equal.

Now finally to answer your question. We all know that the 'one' referred to as in the case of husband and wife is not as a single entity but as in 'one in purpose'..though they are separate persons but one in goal and purpose of marriage union.

Now let me ask you, when Jesus says that 'he is one with the father so as the disciples should be one in him..' does that make the disciple co-equal as God to? Are they now part of the Godhead too?

Where in the Bible can you find the bold?

Hiswordxray:

Where in the Bible can you find the bold?

Stop twisting the bible to serve your purpose either...where did you see trinity and the co-equality of the godhead in the bible as claimed by you tiniterians?

Ofcoure the husband and wife are two separate persons living as one (unit). And when you count them you count them as 1 and 2. Papa is not mama and mama can not be papa.

Deu.6:4 shema O yitzrael adonai elohinu adonai ehad.

"Here o israel the lord our God the lord is one"

Hiswordxray:

Where in the Bible can you find the bold?

He only quotes " one in purpose"

It appears in the bible in 1 Cor 3:6-8 , Paul and Apollo are one simply means they are "one in purpose" !

AM SURE U WONT ANSWER THIS QUESTION HE ASKED , Coz It Will Expose You: let me repost

" does the fact that Jesus said all his followers should be ONE means they are part of a Godhead ? "

Hiswordxray:

Here is a question for you.
How can husband and wife be two person but yet they are one?
The wife is not the husband and the husband is not the wife yet they are one, how can that be?

When I read comments like this I'm reminded that logically many trinitarians understand the seperateness of God from his son Jesus, but it is the Darkness of the Trinity concept that clog their hearts and minds.

A husband and a wife are physically not one person, No. When it is said "the husband must stick to his wife and the two must become one flesh"(Gen 2:24), it means that by virtue of the marriage arrangement, the husband and wife must become inseperable companions. Explaining Gen 2:24, a Bible scholar says that "being one refers to more than the sexual union of man and wife and extends to the whole relationship."


If you say that Jesus and his father are "one" in the sense of a husband being one with his wife, then u're very correct. Jesus is clearly a different person from his father (john 3:17), buh he's in a very strong relationship with his father, for his father is fond of him (proverbs 8:30). Although the husband and the wife are one, notice that the scripture says:

"But I want you to know that the head of every man is the christ, in turn, THE HEAD OF A WOMAN IS THE MAN..." - 1cor 11:3

Don't use the your mysterious, confusing, disorganised, disoriented, garbled, inexplicable, and jagsaw concept of Trinity to refer to the Marriage institution because its not. But on the other hand, understanding how a man and woman become "one" in marriage will help u to understand the relationship btw Jesus our lord and his father, our God - Jehovah.

BIBLESPEAKS:


When I read comments like this I'm reminded that logically many trinitarians understand the seperateness of God from his son Jesus, but it is the Darkness of the Trinity concept that clog their hearts and minds.

A husband and a wife are physically not one person, No. When it is said "the husband must stick to his wife and the two must become one flesh"(Gen 2:24), it means that by virtue of the marriage arrangement, the husband and wife must become inseperable companions. Explaining Gen 2:24, a Bible scholar says that "being one refers to more than the sexual union of man and wife and extends to the whole relationship."


If you say that Jesus and his father are "one" in the sense of a husband being one with his wife, then u're very correct. Jesus is clearly a different person from his father (john 3:17), buh he's in a very strong relationship with his father, for his father is fond of him (proverbs 8:30). Although the husband and the wife are one, notice that the scripture says:

"But I want you to know that the head of every man is the christ, in turn, THE HEAD OF A WOMAN IS THE MAN..." - 1cor 11:3

Don't use the your mysterious, confusing, disorganised, disoriented, garbled, inexplicable, and jagsaw concept of Trinity to refer to the Marriage institution because its not. But on the other hand, understanding how a man and woman become "one" in marriage will help u to understand the relationship btw Jesus our lord and his father, our God - Jehovah.

Concerning the union of husband and wife, here is what the Bible says:
" 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." (Gen 2:24).
They shall become one flesh not they shall become inseparable companion.
In case you don't know English, one flesh and one relationship is not the same thing. Go and check your dictionary for the meaning of flesh, relationship and companionship, do they mean the same thing? of course No. So stop twisting the Bible just because you don't understand it.

Now concerning the bold. Paul used the word mystery in explaining the union of husband and wife.
"31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church."

Even Paul couldn't explain how husband and wife becomes one flesh, he called it a mystery. But people like you who think they know it all says one flesh means inseparable companion.

There are mysteries that our little mind can't understand but we just have to accept them because they are the truth instead of trying to twist them to something more understandable.

CAPTIVATOR:



He only quotes " one in purpose"

It appears in the bible in 1 Cor 3:6-8 , Paul and Apollo are one simply means they are "one in purpose" !

AM SURE U WONT ANSWER THIS QUESTION HE ASKED , Coz It Will Expose You: let me repost

" does the fact that Jesus said all his followers should be ONE means they are part of a Godhead ? "

Was Paul and Apollo married? Yes or No.

Maamin:


Stop twisting the bible to serve your purpose either...where did you see trinity and the co-equality of the godhead in the bible as claimed by you tiniterians?

Ofcoure the husband and wife are two separate persons living as one (unit). And when you count them you count them as 1 and 2. Papa is not mama and mama can not be papa.

Deu.6:4 shema O yitzrael adonai elohinu adonai ehad.

"Here o israel the lord our God the lord is one"

Thanks for the bold.
So also God and Jesus are two separate persons united as one God. And when you count them you count them as 1 and 2. God the Father is not God the Son and God the Son cannot be God the Father but yet they are one God just as husband and wife are one flesh.

May God help you to see.

RikoduoSennin:


Really, When you said the statement "Jesus is coming soon" was said by a JW member, what do you expect people who know JW well to say. JW don't go around saying things like that, try listen to them well.

There is a reason why you could lie about them- because you are bias to their beliefs.

You think I might lie because lies are in you.
True Christians no longer lie.
But you don't know about that.
It shows the spirit in you, and having little true knowledge, you resort to accusing.

30 or 40 years ago saying Christ is coming or the kingdom is coming or whatever their phrase was,
it was the main thing the jw's who visited me talked about,
they would say only a few of their holy ones remain alive and it is close,
of course their-your beliefs have changed since then.

But you keep on with your false accusations and name calling
of which satan is the father off.

RikoduoSennin:


If JW don't have God's Holy spirit their preaching work would have ended a long time ago nor would it have attracted Millions into the Christian organisation. Such growth in JW members is only possible with God's help.

The rc church have about a billion members.
I suggest in both cases the help is from another.

Hiswordxray:

Thanks for the bold.
So also God and Jesus are two separate persons united as one God. And when you count them you count them as 1 and 2. God the Father is not God the Son and God the Son cannot be God the Father but yet they are one God just as husband and wife are one flesh.

May God help you to see.

May God help you to see too

This is the creed I hold very dearly..keep reciting this until you get it.

Deu.6:4 shema O yitzrael adonai elohinu adonai ehad.

"Here o israel the lord our God the lord is one"

Not co-equal with anyone also in agreement here in
Isaiah 45:6 "That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else."

You can also add 1 Cor. 15:23-27 , 1 Cor. 11:3

They all agree that God stands as the final head with nothing else i.e no one else like unto him. You still haven't answered my initial question, let me post it again :

"when Jesus says that 'he is one with the father so as the disciples should be one in him..' does that make the disciples co-equal as God too? Are they now part of the Godhead too?"

I mentioned how one jw didn't like me for no good reason,
RikoduoSennin said, "your opinion"

of course it's my opinion and true, was you the other one?
was her being hateful mean that she loves me? smile

I said to riko how jw's were going to take the best houses after armageddon
riko said, best houses of who?

why are you asking me? ask the jw's of old. smile he can't help it

I said how jw's talked about Jesus returning soon,
riko said Jesus coming is affiliated with pentecostal churches
and so I'm lying. smile he has nothing at all

I mentioned how jw's think they know all about you, and they falsely accuse
riko said after saying I lie,
stop generalising

But in general it is true

jw

you believe your RELIGIOUS MOTHER, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

me

I don't belong to the rc church, I have posted against some of their beliefs

jw

ur a catholic

ha ha they think they know you, and they falsely accuse
and they say you lie, when what you say is true.

RikoduoSennin

When you want to lie- do your research first

RikoduoSennin

There is a reason why you could lie about them- because you are bias to their beliefs.

Maamin:



May God help you to see too

This is the creed I hold very dearly..keep reciting this until you get it.

Deu.6:4 shema O yitzrael adonai elohinu adonai ehad.

"Here o israel the lord our God the lord is one"

Not co-equal with anyone also in agreement here in
Isaiah 45:6 "That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else."

You can also add 1 Cor. 15:23-27 , 1 Cor. 11:3

They all agree that God stands as the final head with nothing else i.e no one else like unto him. You still haven't answered my initial question, let me post it again :

"when Jesus says that 'he is one with the father so as the disciples should be one in him..' does that make the disciples co-equal as God too? Are they now part of the Godhead too?"

The disciples are part of Jesus that is Jesus told Paul "why are you persecuting me"
The Church is the body of Christ. The Church is Christ on earth.
Jesus is one with God. The Church is not an independent member of the Godhead but a part of one of the member of the Godhead.
All the members of the Godhead are independent on their own yet at the same time one with each other. The disciples are not independent on their own.

The Bible didn't say the husband and the head of the wife and the leg of the wife and the hand of the wife are on flesh. This is because the hand, head and leg of the wife are one body and that body is the wife. The same thing with Christ and the Church. The Church is not another member of the Godhead but a part of Christ body. Christ is a member of the Godhead while the Church is his body just as the as the wife is one flesh with her husband while her hands, head and legs are part of her body.

I am not saying there are two Gods just as the Bible didn't say husband and wife are two persons. But I am saying Jesus and God is one God just as husband and wife is one flesh.
If you disagree with this statement then you have to disagree with the Bible that says husband and wife are one flesh.

Hiswordxray:

The disciples are part of Jesus that is Jesus told Paul "why are you persecuting me"
The Church is the body of Christ. The Church is Christ on earth.
Jesus is one with God. The Church is not an independent member of the Godhead but a part of one of the member of the Godhead.
All the members of the Godhead are independent on their own yet at the same time one with each other. The disciples are not independent on their own.

The Bible didn't say the husband and the head of the wife and the leg of the wife and the hand of the wife are on flesh. This is because the hand, head and leg of the wife are one body and that body is the wife. The same thing with Christ and the Church. The Church is not another member of the Godhead but a part of Christ body. Christ is a member of the Godhead while the Church is his body just as the as the wife is one flesh with her husband while her hands, head and legs are part of her body.

I am not saying there are two Gods just as the Bible didn't say husband and wife are two persons. But I am saying Jesus and God is one God just as husband and wife is one flesh.
If you disagree with this statement then you have to disagree with the Bible that says husband and wife are one flesh.

Total waist of time..i dont think you understand the stands of trinitarians.

Hiswordxray:

That a lie.

The Bible says Jesus is God.
" 1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (2Pet 1:1)
But JW says Jesus is not God.
So Who is correct?

Are you really serious? You can't be! Why should I reply you when you openly deny what Acts 5:30 says. Try re-reading it in your personal bible again before commenting.

The bible also says Angel is God and Satan is God also. Deal with it!

Do you really think, the bible only mention one God? There many Gods in the Bible hence the use of the word "True" to seperate one from the others.

johnw74:


You think I might lie because lies are in you.
True Christians no longer lie.
But you don't know about that.
It shows the spirit in you, and having little true knowledge, you resort to accusing.

30 or 40 years ago saying Christ is coming or[b] the kingdom is coming[/b] or whatever their phrase was,
it was the main thing the jw's who visited me talked about,
they would say only a few of their holy ones remain alive and it is close,
of course their-your beliefs have changed since then.

But you keep on with your false accusations and name calling
of which satan is the father off.

Very silly post.

You are not sure what was said now, is it?

Let me help you; JW usaually preach about THE COMING OF GOD'S KINGDOM not JESUS' SECOND COMING like you accused them of saying while on house to house ministry. You know little about our beliefs that is why you don't know our stand about Jesus supposed Second coming.

Concerning Few holy ones left or the End of this system being close- our beliefs have not changed.

johnw74:


The rc church have about a billion members.
I suggest in both cases the help is from another.

Do you know the number of RCC churches that closed down or converted to Museums in the last 5 years.

Do you know there is a population gap between practising RCC members and those who claim to be RCC by faith where the Former keeps declining gradually on a daily basis.

The control RCC used to have on the World is shrinking by the second. Still looking for new converts! Because all I see is Family business.

johnw74:
I mentioned how one jw didn't like me for no good reason,
RikoduoSennin said, "your opinion"

of course it's my opinion and true, was you the other one?
was her being hateful mean that she loves me? smile

Did not LIKE you or dislike you is not the same thing as HATE. You could kill anyone you hate (hate is a strong word/term to use)

Enlighten me on how someone who met you for the first time just begin to HATE you. How did you invoke such feeling in him or her. How did she express her hate towards you? Because according to your account- you said you suspected that she hate you maybe because she frown all through the conversation.

It is your opinion since you can't see nor read hearts.

johnw74:

I said to riko how jw's were going to take the best houses after armageddon
riko said, best houses of who?

why are you asking me? ask the jw's of old. smile he can't help it

That is one man's opinion not JW opinion. And my question is legit "best houses of who?" Will best houses survive the war of the great day of God- a day like no other day before it or after it?

johnw74:

I said how jw's talked about Jesus returning soon,
riko said Jesus coming is affiliated with pentecostal churches
and so I'm lying. smile he has nothing at all

Provide proof that JW go about preaching "Jesus is coming soon" so that we may put this matter to rest.

johnw74:

I mentioned how jw's think they know all about you, and they falsely accuse


But in general it is true

Did any JW tell you they KNOW ALL ABOUT YOU? Because if they did not utter those words then its all speculation from your side.

johnw74:

ha ha they think they know you, and they falsely accuse
and they say you lie, when what you say is true.

Anyone can paint others in a bad light as long as they quote you out of context. Your intentions are not pure.