agaugust:


Quote me where I said a Nigerian T-72 tank....Angola has T-72 tanks in your backyard there near your house
.

Who cares.

A t-72 is an MBT

You are posting light tanks and IFV's

light tank =/= main battle tank

Show us MBT's floating around in the ocean

agaugust:


SAN Valour frigate gunners are all incompetent.....you will always miss target....Rhino poachers shoot better than your blue water navy
.

Who says it was us?

Whoever fired those shots fired a 23 meter grouping on a target with a poor radar signature, at night.

That grouping is enough to achieve 100% accuracy kill on a Shaldag.

andrewza:


That's not the sea. It is the beach. There is a difrence.

Okay, the beach is cut off from the sea and dropped inside your bath tub at home ? Fool
.

agaugust:


Okay, the beach is cut off from the sea and dropped inside your bath tub at home ? Fool
.

The beach is shallow. People can stand there.

The sea is deep. People cannot stand there.

I know black people dont like swimming, but sh1t man, you should at least go down and see what a beach is.

patches689:


T-64 sorry - i often make that mistake.

You lie often ....that's the real reason
.

andrewza:


For less than 50 kills? Please do show.

There is no evidence to corroborate South-African troops made even a single kill in the CAR.

None of the agencies on the ground reported on South-African kills.

Your defeated troops/media in soweto made up numbers to feel good about your cowardice.

agaugust:


Okay, the beach is cut off from the sea and dropped inside your bath tub at home ? Fool
.

[img]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/xsqZspfQ-HEzi0Lh1zxtkBUQPjXp5rG1QzipKxoBwJTxVpsv6DNt01R4JUSP2ATKDtLWMgaJiLvAbiXmpwGMolKHclcchloo4ezXl6GQtuKLbPNFkA=w693-h212-nc[/img]

patches689:


The beach is shallow. People can stand there.

The sea is deep. People cannot stand there.

I know black people dont like swimming, but sh1t man, you should at least go down and see what a beach is.

What water is on the beach, tap water or sea water ? Fool
.

agaugust:


You lie often ....that's the real reason
.

-Tucano
-Su30
-FH77 B05 L52
-Missile Armed OPV
-T80 Oplot

Henry120:


There is no evidence to corroborate South-African troops made even a single kill in the CAR.

None of the agencies on the ground reported on South-African kills.

Your defeated troops/media in soweto made up numbers to feel good about your cowardice.

Other than seleka themselfs.

Henry120:


There is no evidence to corroborate South-African troops made even a single kill in the CAR.

None of the agencies on the ground reported on South-African kills.

Your defeated troops/media in soweto made up numbers to feel good about your cowardice.

Seleka themselves confirm that they suffered a minimum of 250 kills in one unit alone

“They had every kind of weapon that they were fighting against us with – heavy weapons,” said Tahir. “It was a very difficult battle. We lost more than half of the the men only in my unit of 500 men.”
http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/04/03/sa-soldiers-carved-us-up-say-rebels

saengine:


Yeah. You'll be nice and safe inside the tank. No need to worry.

Ratel IFV fires Ingwe anti tank.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t58VFhCvgw

Ingwe missile gets defeated by T-72 smoke launch.

Nigeria has new anti-tank missiles with 10 km range , that is double your Ingwe 5 km short range

You just get your SANDF roasted for Easter dinner, better go fight Lesotho or Burundi.....avoid Nigeria o !
.

agaugust:


Ingwe missile gets defeated by T-72 smoke launch.

Nigeria has new anti-tank missiles with 10 km range , that is double your Ingwe 5 km short range

You just get your SANDF roasted for Easter dinner, better go fight Lesotho or Burundi.....avoid Nigeria o !
.

Why are you changing the topic so desperatly?

T-72 doesnt have laser warning - half your T-72's will be dead before they know what hit them

patches689:


Why are you changing the topic so desperatly?

Nope, the sea argument is over, you lost at sea. i am now back to land to slay @saengine there too

agaugust:


Nope, the sea argument is over, you lost at sea. i am now back to land to slay @saengine there too

Who lost?

How did we lose?

You cannot even answer simple questions.

patches689:


Seleka themselves confirm that they suffered a minimum of 250 kills in one unit alone

“They had every kind of weapon that they were fighting against us with – heavy weapons,” said Tahir. “It was a very difficult battle. We lost more than half of the the men only in my unit of 500 men.”
http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/04/03/sa-soldiers-carved-us-up-say-rebels

Exactly, figures concocted by South-African media in far away soweto.

Was the South-African media on the ground in the CAR?

They lost 1000 men, yet still had the high morale, men and ammo to take over the capital..... LOL. r3tard.


Those lies are only for gullible South-Africans to digest.

Provide evidence from media sources on the ground (Rueters, AP, BBC, Aljazeera, TVC).

Henry120:


Exactly, figures concocted by South-African media in far away soweto.

Was the South-African media on the ground in the CAR?

They lost 1000 men, yet still had the high morale, men and ammo to take over the capital..... LOL. r3tard.


Those lies are only for gullible South-Africans to digest.

Provide evidence from media sources on the ground (Rueters, AP, BBC, Aljazeera, TVC).

The paper is quoting members of Seleka

They named him: corporal Mohamed Tahir

And the artical states: Stephan Hofstatter and JAMES OATWAY in Bangui

andrewza:

Yep.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohatla
No a fish boat is a vehicle. It can move thuse is not a installation.
Who said it was warning shots. It could of been mistaken for the target drone.

lohatla is just one of the two training facilitie for all types of warfare located in the southern hemisphere,where does it say that SA has the 2nd biggest training field in the southern hemisphere?.
my use of the word "installation" was figurative.
how can you mistake a fishing boat for the target drone{which you missed anyway}?,didnt you say that all your warships has "advanced" binoculars?.If even with advanced binoculars,your navy cannot tell the difference between a target drone and a fishing boat,then there is clearly something wrong with your military doctrine.or has HIV clouded your eyeballs?

Henry120:


No independent, on the ground source corollates your fabrication.

Fact is = SANDF was decisively dealt with.

Fact is = Seleka took the capital

Fact is = French and Fomac drove Seleka off bangui.

Dealt with by negotiating a ceasefire? Yes.

A whole battalion of fomac failed to stop Seleka for a few hours they simply said "please pass don't hurt us".

patches689:


The paper is quoting members of Seleka

They named him: corporal Mohamed Tahir

And the artical states: Stephan Hofstatter and JAMES OATWAY in Bangui

They weren't on the ground in the fighting. All news sources which were on the ground were unanimous on the reportage South-African forces suffered.

So do well to get an independent source on the ground.

They are many, both french and English language news sources say the same thing.


You were roundly routed.

agaugust:


If a Valour frigate is in the battle space of an amphibious operation, yes, from 4km away near shore in the waters, a T-72 will sink a distant Valour frigate in the deep ocean, frigates do go 2 km to the shore, that is deep deep water !
.

No, it can't.

what dump force commander would send tanks to counter frigates?

EVarn:


lol.abi na,i just wanted to hear both the advantages and disadvanges of the T72 MBT,and what better place to hear about the disadvantages of the T72 than from a rival south african?
I will form my opinion when i analyse all available reports.

T-72 tank has 3 types.

1st generation with ordinary steel armour.... easy to defeat with HEAT shells

2nd generation with reactive armour.....hard to defeat with HEAT shells

3rd generation with mixed armour including some composite armour....almost impossible to defeat. This version is very rare among T-72 tanks

T-72 disadvantages :

It lacks 3rd generation composite armour and self protection against enemy anti-tank missiles.

T-72 advantages include :

Powerful 125 mm main gun instead of the 105 mm weaker main gun on SANDF Olifant tanks.

Speed compared to it's generation.

Semi-amphibious capabilities compared to SANDF Olifant tanks.

Long travel range, extra fuel.

Reactive armour or ERA that most shells and some anti-tank missiles in this world cannot penetrate.

T-72 tank has NEVER been defeated in war by any tank in it's own class of 2nd generation.

T-72 tank demolished British made Chieftain tanks in Iran-Iraq war, and the combat record of the T-72 is excellent.

The only loss in war was T-72 tanks 1st generation versions of Iraq against American 3rd generation Abrams tanks with composite armour, why not? It's 1st generation vs 3rd generation, like a MiG-21 Vs MiG-29 jet. Who will win? Newer generation for sure !
.

patches689:


Why would a frigate go 2km to the shore?

Especially if enemy units were present?

Why would it not stay 16-20km out to sea and provide shore support from there?

You said a T-72 could "snorkel out" and sink a valour class.

Not to mention that the maximum aimed range for a T-72 is 2km
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t72tank.htm

This is your argument.

His thinking is influenced by the bad amphibious operation Nigeria undertook in Liberia.

Where they lacked amphibious landing craft and vehicles so the vessels had to come close to the beach to dump their troops, whom died a lot against poorly armed rebels.

agaugust:


T-72 tank has 3 types.

1st generation with ordinary steel armour.... easy to defeat with HEAT shells

2nd generation with reactive armour.....hard to defeat with HEAT shells

3rd generation with mixed armour including some composite armour....almost impossible to defeat. This version is very rare among T-72 tanks

T-72 disadvantages :

It lacks 3rd generation composite armour and self protection against enemy anti-tank missiles.

T-72 advantages include :

Powerful 125 mm main gun instead of the 105 mm weaker main gun on SANDF Olifant tanks.

Speed compared to it's generation.

Semi-amphibious capabilities compared to SANDF Olifant tanks.

Long travel range, extra fuel.

Reactive armour or ERA that most shells and some anti-tank missiles in this world cannot penetrate.

T-72 tank has NEVER been defeated in war by any tank in it's own class of 2nd generation.

T-72 tank demolished British made Chieftain tanks in Iran-Iraq war, and the combat record of the T-72 is excellent.

The only loss in war was T-72 tanks 1st generation versions of Iraq against American 3rd generation Abrams tanks with composite armour, why not? It's 1st generation vs 3rd generation, like a MiG-21 Vs MiG-29 jet. Who will win? Newer generation for sure !
.

First, why are you comparing it to the Oliphant? We are planning on replacing it in anycase, now a peice by peice analysis.

agaugust:

T-72 tank has 3 types.

1st generation with ordinary steel armour.... easy to defeat with HEAT shells

2nd generation with reactive armour.....hard to defeat with HEAT shells

3rd generation with mixed armour including some composite armour....almost impossible to defeat. This version is very rare among T-72 tanks

Largely correct, but:

2nd generation with reactive armor and heat shells is still easily defeated by ATGM's - as is shown in every major war they are involved in.

3rd generation is nonsense, i have no idea where you are pulling this from.

agaugust:

T-72 disadvantages :

It lacks 3rd generation composite armour and self protection against enemy anti-tank missiles.

You also forgot:

- dangerous ammo storage makes it easy to get vehical kills off minor penetrations
- lack of spallining liners makes it easy to get crew kills with HEP, HESH an HE shells/warheads
- autoloader which is sh1t and easily broken (rendering the vehicle useless)
- outdated optics
- poor situational awareness
- unable to perform hunter-killer roles
- non-existant battlefeild managment capabilities.
- ancient FCS

agaugust:

T-72 advantages include :

Powerful 125 mm main gun instead of the 105 mm weaker main gun on SANDF Olifant tanks.

Speed compared to it's generation.

Semi-amphibious capabilities compared to SANDF Olifant tanks.

Why are you comparing it to the Olifant? Why are you obsessed with South Africa?

Its 125mm gun cannot fire the latest generation of warheads

Speed compared to its generation is irrelevant - we dont say a 1950's car is fast today because it is still fast compared to cars of its day.

Semi-amphibious? Wtf are you talking about? The fact that it can snorkel? So what?

agaugust:

T-72 tank has NEVER been defeated in war by any tank in it's own class of 2nd generation.

T-72 tank demolished British made Chieftain tanks in Iran-Iraq war, and the combat record of the T-72 is excellent.

The only loss in war was T-72 tanks 1st generation versions of Iraq against American 3rd generation Abrams tanks with composite armour, why not? It's 1st generation vs 3rd generation, like a MiG-21 Vs MiG-29 jet. Who will win? Newer generation for sure !

Why does generation matter? Its irrelevant!! We dont judge modern equipment by ancient standards! We measure it by modern standards!

The T-72 has a terrible combat history: every single war it has fought in it has been slaughtered! Just look at Syria today!

The T-72 is a world renowned tank for being lethal to nothing but its own crews.

Its suitable for the war against BH because BH has nothing to fight it with, but as we saw in Afghanistan, Chechnya (1 and 2), Yugoslav Wars, Ukraine, Syria it is easy to kill and completely unsiuted to modern warfare where the enemy is armed with modern ATGM's

Video related - what happens when a modern ATGM meets a fully armed T-72

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04Q-ieBnPEo

here is an entire compilation of T-72's getting wrecked

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocuNOw8iw2Q

patches689:


First, why are you comparing it to the Oliphant? We are planning on replacing it in anycase, now a peice by peice analysis.

Ordinary T-72 main gun will demolish your Olifant tanks, not to even talk of Nigerian AR-1 anti-tank missiles
.

agaugust:


Nope, the sea argument is over, you lost at sea. i am now back to land to slay @saengine there too

You are delusional. Infact you aren't....you're just bored. And want attention. Simple question....when T-72 tanks are in the water, firing at frigates, are their tracks touching the sea bed or not? What is your definition of "deep ocean"?

patches689:

here is an entire compilation of T-72's getting wrecked

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocuNOw8iw2Q

Same way SANDF OLifant tanks will be wrecked by the same Tow Missile

T-72 has combat experience 100 times more than Olifant or Centurion tanks.

Cuban teenage boys demolished SANDF Olifant tanks and captured some for photograph display...

Cry baby cry SANDF.....teenage Cuban boys jolly ride your Olifant tanks in battle

"On February 14, 1988 the SADF and the UNITA begin the second heavy attack to the Cuito Cuanavale defenses, with forces sized in three SADF and six UNITA battalions, supported by more of 100 armored vehicles of various types, among them 40 Olifants Tanks. By this superiority of forces, they achieve to break the defense of the 59° Angolan Brigade. To cover this place were urgently thrown the unique 8 T-55 Cubans in movement in Cuito, by the command of the lieutenant colonel Héctor Aguilar. They stop the South African, destroying 10 Olifants. The remainder of the Olifants retires behind march."

http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/Tanques3-e.html

[img]http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/Olifant3.jpg[/img]
.

EVarn:
not only "southern hemisphere" it is "southern cherry-pear"{note the sarcasm}.
Have you forgotten that Brazil is also part of the southern hemisphere?,are you saying that you've got a bigger training field than Brazil?.
Moreover,isnt the fishing boat a civilian installation?,also,why shoot to scare the fishermen away,why not apply normal diplomatic means to strongly convince them to retreat out of the training zone?

Yes, in all Southern hemisphere.

And No installations like in this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOzs0mQeoU4

agaugust:


SAN Valour frigate has no such ammunition, you have basic HE imported from Italy with your Italian 76mm gun, range effective is 8 km
.

South Africa used "such ammunition" since apartheid days on the strike craft.

The Oto melara 76/62 super rapid guns on the valour class frigates are refurbished systems from two retired strikecrafts which were sunk in exercises.

Range is 16km and effective range is 8km.

And No the SA navy acquires all its 76mm ammunition from Rheinmantall Denel Munitions from air burst to training rounds.

agaugust:


Ingwe missile gets defeated by T-72 smoke launch.

Nigeria has new anti-tank missiles with 10 km range , that is double your Ingwe 5 km short range

You just get your SANDF roasted for Easter dinner, better go fight Lesotho or Burundi.....avoid Nigeria o !
.

Ingwe is highly resistant to counter - measures, and smoke being the most basic of those counter -measures. Your tanks will be turned into scrap metal.

What platform can AR-1 missile be fired from? They are limited to UAV's.


http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-29527/


"Wessels said the Ingwe can now be fired from both land vehicles and helicopters - including Denel's Rooivalk combat support helicopter. 

The Ingwe IPLS can engage stationary and moving targets at ranges from 200 metres up to 5 000 metres. It is a laser-guided beam-riding system is virtually undetectable and highly resistant to countermeasures."

agaugust:


Same way SANDF OLifant tanks will be wrecked by the same Tow Missile

T-72 has combat experience 100 times more than Olifant or Centurion tanks.

Cuban teenage boys demolished SANDF Olifant tanks and captured some for photograph display...

Cry baby cry SANDF.....teenage Cuban boys jolly ride your Olifant tanks in battle

"On February 14, 1988 the SADF and the UNITA begin the second heavy attack to the Cuito Cuanavale defenses, with forces sized in three SADF and six UNITA battalions, supported by more of 100 armored vehicles of various types, among them 40 Olifants Tanks. By this superiority of forces, they achieve to break the defense of the 59° Angolan Brigade. To cover this place were urgently thrown the unique 8 T-55 Cubans in movement in Cuito, by the command of the lieutenant colonel Héctor Aguilar. They stop the South African, destroying 10 Olifants. The remainder of the Olifants retires behind march."

http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/Tanques3-e.html

[img]http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/Olifant3.jpg[/img]
.

Like how they won't mention their defeat at the Lomba river, they were now in defence.

Only one Olifant was left in a land mine field.

saengine:


Ingwe is highly resistant to counter - measures, and smoke being the most basic of those counter -measures. Your tanks will be turned into scrap metal.

What platform can AR-1 missile be fired from? They are limited to UAV's.


http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-29527/


"Wessels said the Ingwe can now be fired from both land vehicles and helicopters - including Denel's Rooivalk combat support helicopter. 

The Ingwe IPLS can engage stationary and moving targets at ranges from 200 metres up to 5 000 metres. It is a laser-guided beam-riding system is virtually undetectable and highly resistant to countermeasures."

Every good missile is resistant to counter measure, yet smoke will kill laser guidance. Fact of science !

T-72 smoke defence will block off Ingwe laser guidance and your ATGM goes blind.

AR-1 range 10 km

Ingwe range 5 km

Yes, our ATGM drones will kill your Ratels and their Ingwe will be used to add fuel to their flames for roasting
.