The very fact that sin remains and flourishes in the world, 2000+ years after Christ supposedly "conquered" sin on the cross, is more than enough for the non-deluded to see that the judicial execution of that one man is perfectly meaningless in terms of redeeming the spiritual state of mankind as a race.

WAS MAN BORN A SINNER?

While islam preach and propagate the sinlessness of man from birth, and attributing sin to whoever has done it alone, the religion of Christianity condemn all mankind as sinners-a perpetual sinners indeed who must inherit the original sin.
The muslim’s Holy Quran records only the doing of sin to the doer of sin in:

Quran 74v38: every soul will be held in pledge for (all) its deed

Quran 17v15: whosoever choose to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good, and whoever goes astray, did to his own hurt, and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden. Wherever, we would never punish (any community for the wrong they may do) until we have sent an apostle to give warning.

Quran 4v111: and if one sins, he earns it against his soul for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

But on the other hand, the bible came with the notion of original sin that “Jesus has redeemed the world by sacrificing his life to cancel the sin of mankind” that, that original sin was the sin inherited from Adam and Eve through birth!

The bible says concerning the inherited sinfulness of man as follows: Romans 3v23: for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

The sinfulness of man is thus made manifested in these verses and some unmentioned one. This doctrine is not accidental. The sinfulness of man, according to the bible, is that man is a perpetual sinner, born into sin, reared and nurtured as a sinner because in Job 25v4: how can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

It therefore implies that, as long as man continue to be someone born of a woman, he cannot be clean! Even if he does all kind of righteous deeds until his death, he will remain unclean. This will also be applicable even if he accepted Jesus as his saviour! Why? Cos he would remain someone born of a woman and even though he became born again! The reason is not far-fetched, the bible says in:

Isaiah 64v6: we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousness are as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

This inherited sinfulness of man was nurtured from the idea that Adam’s sin was later inherited by all men in:
Romans 5v12: wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned.

The doctrine of man’s inherited sinfulness can be said, without slightest doubt, a doctrine never preached by the earlier biblical prophet but an idea of some later biblical characters (eg Paul). They at the same time, contradicted themselves on what they have raised somewhere else in the same bible. The two following quotations will easily disprove that, men are sinners or that man inherited sin from his parent.

Ezekiel 18v20: the soul that sin shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son, the righteous shall be upon himself. OR
Deu 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

It therefore implies that the idea “none is righteous no, not one (Roman 3v9-12) is a fabrication, a naked fantastic lies, that is propagated with ignorance and fantasy. The following passages shows that some people are righteous and never born with any inheritable sin.
Mark 6v20: herod feared John knowing that he was a righteous and holy man.
Daniel 6v4: Daniel was faithful, no error or fault was found on him.
Luke 1v16: Zechariah and his wife were both righteous.
1st Samuel 12v3-5: Samuel never oppressed…he is free from all faults.
Mathew 1v19: Joseph was a just man
Luke 2v25: simeon was devout and righteous one etc

If we hold the word “how then can men be righteous before God? How can one who is born of a woman be clean (job 25v4) etc, to be true, then the passage will create more problem, cos one Jesus is born from a woman, then Jesus could not be clean either judging from that assertion.

Two, if Jesus is born by a woman, then he would be said to have inherited the original sin from his mother.

Three, if the word “ all have sinned” be taken to its full length, Jesus would be included among the “all” cos he is born of a woman.

However, in all manner of consideration, if the original sin is inherited and children are born into sin, Jesus would not have awarded “innocence” and “pure” state to them, neither would he have said in,

Mathew 18v3: and said, verily I say unto you, except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdon of heaven. OR
Mark 10v15: verily I say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter heaven.

If all of us are born sinner because of Adam’s sin, then it portrayed God as one inflicting the punishment of a criminal to one who is not. This is equal to injustice. But our God is not unjust as in

NOW IFEANN SHOULD ATTEMPT THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS

1. Why can God be unjust when he had sent many prophets to preach repentance? How can countless men inherit a sin they have never committed? And if sin means the breaking of God’s law (according to dictionary), which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called forbidden tree?.

2. If God’s anger was kindled against Adam and Eve for their disobedience, could the anger persisted on to the generation of Adam and Eve. Remember this God’s action
psalm 30v5: for his anger endureth but a moment and his favour is for a life time.



3. From whence, then, could arise the solitary and strange conceit that the Almighty, who had millions of worlds equally dependent on his protection, should quit the care of all the rest, and come to die in our world, because, they say, one man and one woman had eaten an apple?

4. "Christian guy rapes innocent Muslim girl to death. Muslim girl goes to hell because she didn't believe Jesus is the son of God. Christian guy ask for forgiveness. Makes heaven." whats your take on this incident?

5. Simply put, it is either men have not inherited any sins or that bible has told lie when it says as seen above that John, Daniel, Zechariah and his wife, Samuel, Joseph were all righteous men! Or are a sinners called righteous one in the bible?


To be continued...

PROOF OF THIS ASSERTION

Some of those that wrote the bible made us conclude on the notion that Christ actually died for the sin of mankind. The few quotation that they base their arguments and proof on are listed below:
1st John 4v10, 1st john 1v7, john 1v29, roman 5v8, 1st peter 3v18 etc.

all the chapters and verses above came from the bible writers and we cannot conclude on wht the writer wrote alone cos jesus said in
Mathew 10v24: the disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

The Christian protagonist says “ jesus died for our sins” but we ask, which sin? He replied , “Adam and Eve committed a mortal sin, and God’s anger was kindled agains them. And unless, Jesus should die for that sin by his own blood sacrifice on the cross, the sin cannot be forgiven!

Now consider the word carefully< somebody who is just is made to die for the unjust. What kind of injustice is that? One would start to ask. Supposing it is true that jesus die for the sin of mankind,

1. Why did God not send him immediately after the sin of Adam was committed?

2. for what purpose did he intend to delay the crucifixion till some thousand years after the event?

3. however, if jesus actually came to die for our sins and that salvation only lies in his blood sacrifice, why did he preach repentance in Mathew 4v17: repent for the kingdom of God is at hand?

4. if all person are under the stain of original sin as the Christian protagonist asserts, children are exempted by jesus because they are pure and inherited nothing as in Mathew 18v3-6; verily I say unto you, except ye be converted as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdom of God……, also in mark 10v14-15: ………. Suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of God

if any one born of a woman cannot be clean (job 15v4) and that “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (roman 3v27) or that “none is righteous” (roman 3v10), but if jesus was born by mary and if Adam was not deceived but the woman was deceived and became transgressor (1st timothy 2v14) then mary would be said to be unclean, unrighteous and have inherited the original sin from his predecessor and at last it would have been said that she would have be said to have transmitted the sin to jesus! So it is either there is no inherited sin or that jesus also inherited sin since he was born of a woman.

1. To put the argument further, is there in any old prophesies the idea of inherited sin or where it was mentioned that jesus will come and die for sin or where jesus mention in his ministry that in respect of the sin of Adam and Eve, had come to rid the earth of its nuisance and has eventually come to die for that sin.

2. the Christian also proof that jesus is Gid, we will ask, does God punish himself before he can forgive a sin done against him?

3. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, they were severely put under curse, the bible when quoting the judgment of God passed on Adam and Eve respectively goes as follows:
Genesis 3v14-19: and the lord said unto the serpent, because thou had done this, thou art cursed above all cattle and above every beast of the field, upon thy belly shall thou go and dust shall thou eat all the days of thy life………and unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your pain in child bearing, in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you, and to Adam he said, because you listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, you shall not eat of it, cursed is the ground cuz of you, in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life, thorns and thistles it shall bring forth to you and you shall the plant of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground………
Now from the judgment passed, it is observed that women are still labouring in pain during child bearing and men is still finding it tough to get their daily sustenance, but jesus died for the sin. How come the cursed has not been lifted since he came to die for the sin and cursed was placed. If he actually died for the sin, then there should have been any problem in those areas above. Explain pls.

4. if Jesus himself had the notion of dying for the sin of man, why did he plead this way to God as in Mathew 26v38-39:…, my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death……….father, if it be possible, let this cup (death pass from me)?

5. if jesus came to die, why is he afraid of death as in john 11v53-54: then from that day forth, they took counsel together for to put him (jesus0 to death. Jesus thereafter walked no more openly among the jews…….

6. if he had prepared to die for the sins of man, why was Judas Iscariot named traitor?

7. why do we accuse pilate as the announcer of his sentence?

8. why do we accuse jews for handling him to do what he has come to do(death)?

Here is an elucidation, Adam and Eve committed sin, their grandson who is not aware of the sin was castigated despite the scripture advise in Deut 24v16: the father shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the sin of their fathers……, also in 2nd Chronicles 25v4: the father shall not be put to death for the children, or the children for the father……… also in Jeremiah 31v29-30: …………….everyone shall die for his own sin . see also Ezekiel 18v20-22: the soul that sin shall die. The son shall not die for the iniquity of the father nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son……………,

The above goes with illustration that:

9. if somebody has malaria and some treatment was prescribed, can the father take the treatment on behalf of the sick child?

10. or can a pastor be allowed to face a firing squad or be executed instead of a gangster of notorious armed robbers who actually committed the crime?


Please answer all the questions correctly and no use of vulgar language please. Know the truth and it shall set you free.

1 John 1:8-10 NIV

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

All man knows himself... no acting "holier than thou"!

Do you have an idea how many times (I believe) your parents have taken the pain you were supposed to take just to get you to where you are? Sacrificial Love is something you have to get to understand!

[img][/img]
if some celebrities can get plenty 'likes'
just for baring their bosssomms on
social networks...How much can you
give to our Lord Jesus Christ for dying
on the cross for our sake? ...#
goodfriday

Islam is a copycat of Christianity and both suffer the same defect.

They both make impossible metaphysical claims only which uneducated and unsophisticated minds can accept. I suggest both religions be condemned to nothingness.

Kay17:
Islam is a copycat of Christianity and both suffer the same defect.

They both make impossible metaphysical claims only which uneducated and unsophisticated minds can accept. I suggest both religions be condemned to nothingness.

Okay.. Thanks for the suggestion.

I can't see any sense in all this things you wrote, but the question you include in the topic the answer is your sin and the entire human sin.

I asked u this

muslims mohammed to lied you . jesus died for you ♡.


Muslims don't believe that jesus paid the price of christains sins yet there hadith teaches them this;

Sahih Muslim 6666--Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire.

Sahih Muslim 6668--Allah's Messenger [said]: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as heavy sins as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them and He would place in their stead the Jews and the Christians.

I have to warn u Muslims that christains And jews can't take away your sins. .

We don't have that power. U were lied to.

Only Christ can do this, only he can take ur sins away. Please accept him.

On this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/2234891/muslims-mohammed-lied-jesus-died#32304661

Minutes later u created this thread rather than discussing the issue i raised. .

Following.................

Ifeann:

I asked u this

On this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/2234891/muslims-mohammed-lied-jesus-died#32304661

Minutes later u created this thread rather than discussing the issue i raised. .

Your question has been debunked in the OP when I quoted the following verses of the Quran.

Quran 74v38: every soul will be held in pledge for (all) its deed

Quran 17v15: whosoever choose to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good, and whoever goes astray, did to his own hurt, [size=15pt] and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden. [/size] Wherever, we would never punish (any community for the wrong they may do) until we have sent an apostle to give warning.

Quran 4v111: and if one sins, he earns it against his soul for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

The Quran has made clear God's stance on the sin of an idividual, i.e. If you sin, you will be the one that will carry the burden and nobody else.

Now please address the OP without derailing with this childish tactic you are trying to use here.

Rilwayne001:


Your question has been debunked in the OP when I quoted the following verses of the Quran.

Quran 74v38: every soul will be held in pledge for (all) its deed

Quran 17v15: whosoever choose to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good, and whoever goes astray, did to his own hurt, [size=15pt] and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden. [/size] Wherever, we would never punish (any community for the wrong they may do) until we have sent an apostle to give warning.

Quran 4v111: and if one sins, he earns it against his soul for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

The Quran has made clear God's stance on the sin of an idividual, i.e. If you sin, you will be the one that will carry the burden and nobody else.

Now please address the OP without derailing with this childish tactic you are trying to use here.

So are u saying that sahih muslim is a load of nonsense fabrication and should be discarded

Ifeann:


So are u saying that sahih muslim is a load of nonsense fabrication and should be discarded

Address the OP

Rilwayne001:


Address the OP

So are u saying that sahih muslim is a load of nonsense fabrication and should be discarded

Seun since u deleted my post

https://www.nairaland.com/2234846/muslims-insult-bible-yet-moharmmad


After d1ck's unfounded compliant less than 10 minutes ago. .. can u delete this one which is filled with a muslim's misinterpretation and misrepresentation of christian scripture.

Ifeann:
Seun since u deleted my post

https://www.nairaland.com/2234846/muslims-insult-bible-yet-moharmmad


After d1ck's unfounded compliant less than 10 minutes ago. .. can u delete this one which is filled with a muslim's misinterpretation and misrepresentation of christian scripture.

WTF!!!!!!

If thats the case, then seun should delete all your threads.

Is it now a crime to ask question

Empiree, tola9ja, 9jaforlife, yazach

Come and see this girl oo.

Rilwayne001:


WTF!!!!!!

If thats the case, then seun should delete all your threads.

Is it now a crime to ask question

So u get my point...
There is no issue in asking questions and i am not annoyed by ur post.. but my post was deleted because one silly insecure muslim mentioned seun ..

Now seun are u going to be fair or a biased. .

Pls unlock my post.. even this muslim is upset that u would delete a thread simply for asking questions.

Ifeann:


So u get my point...
There is no issue in asking questions and i am not annoyed by ur post.. but my post was deleted because one silly insecure muslim mentioned seun ..

Now seun are u going to be fair or a biased. .

Pls unlock my post.. even this muslim is upset that u would delete a thread simply for asking questions.

Haven't you open another thread with the same topic?

Please attempt the OP and stop mentioning seun.

Whats wrong with you sef?

Ifeann:


So are u saying that sahih muslim is a load of nonsense fabrication and should be discarded

The most effective criterion to discern Sahih (authentic) hadith from fabricated (Mawdoo) hadith is the Qur'an.
Any hadith that is not in harmony with the Quran is not from the Prophet of Islam (peace be upon him and his household).

Rilwayne001 has given you ample verses from the Quran to dispel that myth.

AlBaqir:


The most effective criterion to discern Sahih (authentic) hadith from fabricated (Mawdoo) hadith is the Qur'an.
Any hadith that is not in harmony with the Quran is not from the Prophet of Islam (peace be upon him and his household).

Rilwayne001 has given you ample verses from the Quran to dispel that myth.

So sahih muslim is a load of fabricatd nonsense. .

If you can't attempt the OP kindly tell instead of trying to derail the thread. He already told you that Any hadith that is not in harmony with the Quran is not from the Prophet of Islam (peace be upon him and his household). … Whats wrong with you sef?

Ifeann:


So sahih muslim is a load of fabricatd nonsense. .

Rilwayne001:
If you can't attempt the OP kindly tell instead of trying to derail the thread. He already told you that Any hadith that is not in harmony with the Quran is not from the Prophet of Islam (peace be upon him and his household). … Whats wrong with you sef?

So sahih muslim is a load of fabricatd nonsense. .yes or no
There are many more nonsense in sahih muslim and bakhari which contradicts the quran..

So are the sahih hadiths nonsense. . Was usermane correct..yes or no. ..

Following

@ifeann, please address the op, don't derail the topic

Ifeann:


So sahih muslim is a load of fabricatd nonsense. .

No, it is not. Muslim's claim has always been "no book of collection of hadith is free from error". Only the Qur'an we boast passionately to be free from error. Therefore, we use the Qur'an to verify the authenticity of the "books of hadith". This makes a lot of sense in the fact that "books of hadith" were written centuries after the demise of the Prophet of Islam; he or his companions never certify it.

Whatever in the "books of hadith" that is in harmony with the Qur'an is accepted. Whatever deviate from the theme of the Qur'an is rejected.
Muhammad will never contradict his Lord. Qur'an chap. 53 says: |1|By the star when it goes down, (or vanishes).

|2|Your companion (Muhammad SAW) has neither gone astray nor has erred.

|3|Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

|4|It is only an Inspiration that is inspired.

|5|He has been taught by one mighty in power.

yazach:
Following

@ifeann, please address the op, don't derail the topic

Ok yazach let me ask u this..
I wont quote the bible so let me ask u from the quran. Why does allah claim to end isa's life... why kill isa?? Why is his death so important. .
Here is the quran passage.

And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) (in Arabic, mutawafeeka) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed. Qur'an 3:55

(Jesus saying) I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die (Arabic- tawaffaytani), Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things. Qur'an 5:117. *

The word “tawaffa” refers to physical death.

Some of. u Muslims believe that the term "cause thee to die" or terminate (in Arabic, mutawafeeka) need not refer to physical death as it can have other meanings. It can refer to God snatching the body of Jesus away physically to Himself.



The words "tawaffaytani" and "mutawafeeka" are forms of the Arabic word “tawaffa”.

The word mutawafeeka cannot possibly refer to God snatching Jesus' body physically without his experiencing physical death.

The verb in Arabic (mutawafeeka) is used in the Quran with only two meanings.

The word is used 23 times in the Quran and 21 out of the 23 times, it refers to physical death. Only two times, it refers to the separation of the soul from the body at the time of sleep and during both these times, the qualifying words like sleep or night would be in the verse.


Why did he kill isa

AlBaqir:


No, it is not. Muslim's claim has always been "no book of collection of hadith is free from error". Only the Qur'an we boast passionately to be free from error. Therefore, we use the Qur'an to verify the authenticity of the "books of hadith". This makes a lot of sense in the fact that "books of hadith" were written centuries after the demise of the Prophet of Islam; he or his companions never certify it.

Whatever in the "books of hadith" that is in harmony with the Qur'an is accepted. Whatever deviate from the theme of the Qur'an is rejected.
Muhammad will never contradict his Lord. Qur'an chap. 53 says: |1|By the star when it goes down, (or vanishes).

|2|Your companion (Muhammad SAW) has neither gone astray nor has erred.

|3|Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

|4|It is only an Inspiration that is inspired.

|5|He has been taught by one mighty in power.

Interesting!

So sahih muslim is a load of fabricatd nonsense. .yes or no
There are many more nonsense in sahih muslim and bakhari which contradicts the quran..

So are the sahih hadiths nonsense. . Was usermane correct..yes or no. ..

Ifeann:


Ok yazach let me ask u this..
I wont quote the bible so let me ask u from the quran. Why does allah claim to end isa's life... why kill isa?? Why is his death so important. .
Here is the quran passage.

A to the separation of the soul from the body at the time of sleep and during both these times, the qualifying words like sleep or night would be in the verse.


Why did he kill isa

Attempt the OP instead of derailing, if can't, simply walk away.
Wats wrong with you sef?

Your supporters will be highly disasppointed in you.

Rilwayne001:


Attempt the OP instead of derailing, if can't, simply walk away.
Wats wrong with you sef?

Your supporters will be highly disasppointed in you.

In due time..all in due time..frist agree on this question i asked

Ifeann:

So sahih muslim is a load of fabricatd nonsense. .yes or no
There are many more nonsense in sahih muslim and bakhari which contradicts the quran..
So are the sahih hadiths nonsense. . Was usermane correct..yes or no. ..

Ifeann:


In due time..all in due time..frist agree on this question i asked

Lemme summon those that are following you to come and see how low your IQ is.

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Rilwayne001:



Lemme summon those that are following you to come and see how low your IQ is.

Dont forget to summon ur nairaland mohammed defenders..

Once again i ask u

Ifeann:

So sahih muslim is a load of fabricatd nonsense. .yes or no
There are many more nonsense in sahih muslim and bakhari which contradicts the quran..
So are the sahih hadiths nonsense. . Was usermane correct..yes or no. ..

Ifeann:


Interesting!

So sahih muslim is a load of fabricatd nonsense. .yes or no
There are many more nonsense in sahih muslim and bakhari which contradicts the quran..

So are the sahih hadiths nonsense. . Was usermane correct..yes or no. ..

You sound like a child now. You keep repeating this despite clarification from albaqir.

It's same position I abide all the time. There are hundreds if not thousands of ahadith that are in harmony with the BEST BOOK ON PLANET EARTH, AL-QURAN. Quran itself explains itself within itself a lot without secondary source as well.

When you asked if sahih ahadith are nonsense, I don't think you realized you made blanket statement by that.

Sahih ahadith are not nonsense. They are graded and we freaking know much about them. Even weakest ahadith are better than Bible. Yauk

ifeann, you no go kill pazon