AlBaqir:


The most effective criterion to discern Sahih (authentic) hadith from fabricated (Mawdoo) hadith is the Qur'an.
Any hadith that is not in harmony with the Quran is not from the Prophet of Islam (peace be upon him and his household).

Rilwayne001 has given you ample verses from the Quran to dispel that myth.

this hadith is in harmony with surah2:158, muhammed sanctioned pagan practice in ISLAM, he retained the way of worshipping pagan to ISLAM;


Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60,
Number 23:
Narrated By ‘Asim bin Sulaiman: I
asked Anas bin Malik about Safa and
Marwa (i.e. two mountains at Mecca).
Anas replied, “We used to consider
(i.e. going around) them a custom
of the PRE-ISLAMIC PERIOD OF
IGNORANCE, so when Islam came, we
gave up going around them. Then
Allah revealed, ‘Verily, Safa and
Marwa (i.e. two mountains at
Mecca) are among the SYMBOL OF
ALLAH. So it is not harmful of those
who perform the Hajj of the House
(of Allah) or perform the Umra to
ambulate (Tawaf) between
them.’” ( Surah 2:158) [End of Quote]

Surah 2:158: “Lo! (the mountains) As-
Safa and Al-Marwah are among the
indications of Allah. It is therefore no
sin for him who is on pilgrimage to
the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to
go around them ( AS THE PAGAN
CUSTOM IS ).” (Pickthall)

^^^ Robot, please go find somewhere to sit. you are known to be regurgitating on answered question, What you put up here as been answered several times on this section. Let your master come on board and answered the questions in the OP, thats all I ask.

malvisguy212:
this hadith is in harmony with surah2:158, muhammed sanctioned pagan practice in ISLAM, he retained the way of worshipping pagan to ISLAM;


Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60,
Number 23:
Narrated By ‘Asim bin Sulaiman: I asked Anas bin Malik about Safa and
Marwa (i.e. two mountains at Mecca).
Anas replied, “We used to consider
(i.e. going around) them a custom
of the PRE-ISLAMIC PERIOD OF
IGNORANCE, so when Islam came, we
gave up going around them. Then
Allah revealed, ‘Verily, Safa and
Marwa (i.e. two mountains at
Mecca) are among the SYMBOL OF
ALLAH. So it is not harmful of those
who perform the Hajj of the House
(of Allah) or perform the Umra to
ambulate (Tawaf) between
them.’” ( Surah 2:158) [End of Quote]

Surah 2:158: “Lo! (the mountains) As-
Safa and Al-Marwah are among the
indications of Allah. It is therefore no
sin for him who is on pilgrimage to
the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to
go around them ( AS THE PAGAN
CUSTOM IS ).” (Pickthall)

First, what you quoted is not an Hadith (i.e direct saying of Prophet of Islam). It is an Athar: companion's speech/thought.

Second, the companion Anas ibn Malik NEVER met the Pre-Islamic Period of age of ignorance. Anas was born after the advent of Islam.

Third, assuming someone among the older companions must have told him, the wording is clear “We used to consider (i.e. going around) them a custom of the PRE-ISLAMIC PERIOD OF IGNORANCE, so when Islam came, we gave up going around them.

Fourth, the historical establishment of "safa and marwa" was from the sincere act of Hajar, the wife of Prophet Ibrahim, when she run from one mountain (safa) to another (marwa) in search of water (of life) to quench the thirst of his dying son, Ismail, a Prophet of Allah.

Note that most of these companions were pagan before Islam. They do not know the original historic background of monotheism practice of "Safa and Marwa (in hajj) established by Prophet Ibrahim and his family" (as). And since, the pagan has taken over and "re-modified" the monotheistic practice of Ibrahim to Paganistic, the natural intention will always be what is expressed in the hadith by the sahaba^.

The advent of Islam put things back to their original state and practice as first established by Prophet Ibrahim (as). Therefore, Qur'an puts it:
"...‘Verily, Safa and Marwa (i.e. two mountains at Mecca) are among the SYMBOL OF ALLAH. So it is not harmful of those who perform the Hajj of the House (of Allah) or perform the Umra to ambulate (Tawaf) between them.’

In short, There is absolutely Nothing wrong with the "hadith" you quoted and the verse to "support" it. In fact, the verse clarifies.

^^^^ poor argument because it didn't happen. to even suggest that what didn't happen is abrogated and not kept will be another error because abrogated verses about alcohol before it was finally abolished are still Quran. so is about not speaking in the salat. so is about how long a woman must wait after loss of husband before a possible husband can be in the 'to do list'.

the enemies of islam in all their shades and leanings have found themselves in a pickle. the only way to convince themselves that they are right for not being in islam is to lie; Muhammad [SA] copied inferior material because definitely Quran is better in what it has in common of information with others. Quran was not revealed to Muhammad [SA] because there was no man called Muhammad [SA], whereby the 'muslims of later century' created the Quran after Bible was in arabic and created Muhammad [SA] as the person they must anchor their success upon. oh, the 'satanic verses' is a sign that Muhammad [SA] couldnt be trusted because he couldn't differentiate Jibril [AS] from satan [LanatUllah]. others.

the type of malvisguy212 forgot that before the event of the so called 'satanic verses', Muhammad [SA] was known as the 'trustworthy, honest' among his people. Abu Jahal [Lanatullah] confessed that he believed he was a prophet [SA] but based on pride of clan, he will never accept to follow him. Abu Lahab [Lanatullah] was the uncle of the prophet [SA to my beloved Messenger] was only enemy because of matter of the pocket. it is impossible for crane, a large bird to survive in the desert. choosing the crane bird by those that proposed 'satanic verses' when it is not known to the desert makkan is evidence that the 'satanic verses' is a lie. Allah exposed the lie because there were types of livestock animals that the pagans had declared secrete which if used in spite of the lies concocted would take a more defined explanation to expose it. Allah therefore has made the lies of the enemies less of a hard work for believers to identify.



the enemies forgot that Muhammad [SA] must be receiving Wahi from God, considering that the children of Israel are not the only people God ever gave Wahi [Noah, Ibrahim [AS] are known to all so called monotheist faiths, where only 1 faith is truly monotheistic and this one true faith can't be the one in the middle and the middle rendered what it accept as the first not the true one faith, making the truth as what came after it [Islam of Muhammad [as]]. do the enemies think that God could not reveal a portion that can move the pagans to temporarily come into state of submission, so much that they prostrated with those whose hearts are firm in guidance? this is what happened and there is no one that can listen to Quran that will not be moved. the argument that later generation wrote and honored Muhammad [SA] who they created with it is so poor as usual because no one can produce a masterpiece and give the accolade of it to someone else. it is not in human character to do so. this is also true of Muhammad [SA] saying it is from my Lord [SWA], if it was not so.


one reads surah Abasa to know that where it says 'he frowned. . . .' could not have been said by Muhammad [SA] about himself were he the author, except The One Who could not be refused except one is in ruin by refusing Him' is the Author. when it is said 'you should not be concern about what man will say' shows its from Lord of Muhammad [SA] and surah Ahzab about being told already to marry his cousin, who will be divorcing his adopted son from before prophetic era, so that adoption is ended and one is now called by his father's name, could not have been written by Muhammad [SA] or some group of writers wishing not to take the glory of a successful book.

the verse in surah Imran that deals with the battle of Huud, and the one specifically revealed to tell the prophet [SA] that who gets punished or the people that are guided is the Right of Allah and the duty of Muhammad [SA] is to deliver the message, clearly shows that the revelation is from God, cautioning the messenger [SA] after his injury. how about the verse in urah Anfal dealing with captives of war of battle of Badr, which says prophet should not get captiive [for ransom as those ransomed will possibly come to fight another day, which they did in battle of Huud] until he is firmly established in authority/strength and power. i provide evidence above to show that Muhammad [SA] got revelation from his Lord; word of God, alone; Quran, from God but word of Muhammad, Hadith Qursi, what God permits and word and action of Muhammad; Sunnah/Hadith.

what is not from Muhammad [SA] are the weak and false hadith because they will disagree with Quran and will have weak or questionable chain. they will not be matters of theology, but always of other matters.



@ifeann; i am not sure if you realize that Allah says in the Quran that Jesus didn't die and those who say Jesus died at crucifixion or as aresult of his enemy are saying lies.

Professor Hassanain Rajabali - Refuting the Original Sin & Crucifixion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqAy0805dFQ

AlBaqir:


First, what you quoted is not an Hadith (i.e direct saying of Prophet of Islam). It is an Athar: companion's speech/thought.

Second, the companion Anas ibn Malik NEVER met the Pre-Islamic Period of age of ignorance. Anas was born after the advent of Islam.

Third, assuming someone among the older companions must have told him, the wording is clear “We used to consider (i.e. going around) them a custom of the PRE-ISLAMIC PERIOD OF IGNORANCE, so when Islam came, we gave up going around them.

Fourth, the historical establishment of "safa and marwa" was from the sincere act of Hajar, the wife of Prophet Ibrahim, when she run from one mountain (safa) to another (marwa) in search of water (of life) to quench the thirst of his dying son, Ismail, a Prophet of Allah.

Note that most of these companions were pagan before Islam. They do not know the original historic background of monotheism practice of "Safa and Marwa (in hajj) established by Prophet Ibrahim and his family" (as). And since, the pagan has taken over and "re-modified" the monotheistic practice of Ibrahim to Paganistic, the natural intention will always be what is expressed in the hadith by the sahaba^.

The advent of Islam put things back to their original state and practice as first established by Prophet Ibrahim (as). Therefore, Qur'an puts it:
"...‘Verily, Safa and Marwa (i.e. two mountains at Mecca) are among the SYMBOL OF ALLAH. So it is not harmful of those who perform the Hajj of the House (of Allah) or perform the Umra to ambulate (Tawaf) between them.’

In short, There is absolutely Nothing wrong with the "hadith" you quoted and the verse to "support" it. In fact, the verse clarifies.

first you said what I quote was not. Hadith but your last statement say there is nothing wrong with the hadith I quote,(confused)

The Islamic books (hadith and quran) I provide was clear,the facts that the pagan practice such before muhammed approved it for the worship of Allah debunked All you claimed.

How can the very same two mountains
that were sacred to the pagans become
the “SYMBOL OF ALLAH”all of a sudden?
Moreover, how is it that the very same
pagan ritual of running between the two
hills is also retained in Islam? In
addition, why was the Arab pagan ritual
of going around the Ka’ba seven times,
also retained in Islam?

AlBaqir:
Professor Hassanain Rajabali - Refuting the Original Sin & Crucifixion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqAy0805dFQ

How are you brother? It seems ages.

malvisguy212:
muhammed will never contradicts his lord yet satan inspired word contrary to Allah word in his revelation(satanic verse)

"Satanic Verse?! Inspired by Satan to Muhammad?" Those are the myth and the fabrication of the Liars. It has no basis whether through the scrutiny of the "science of hadith or the text of the Qur'an".

Surah al-Hijr: 39 - 42 reads:
[Iblis (Satan)] said: "O my Lord! Because you have made life evil to me, I shall indeed adorn the path of error for them (mankind) on the earth, and I shall mislead them all.

Except Your chosen, (guided) servants among them.

(Allah) said: "This is the Way which will lead straight to Me.

Certainly, you shall have no authority over My slaves, except those who follow you of the deviators."

In as much as Muhammad (peace be upon him and his household) is among the chosen (guided) servant of Allah, whom satan has no power or authority to mislead, Allah also emphasis that:

"Your companion (Muhammad) has neither gone astray nor has erred.

Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

It is only an Inspiration that is inspired.

He has been taught by one mighty in power."

This should put your "satanic verse" myth to rest.

malvisguy212:
first you said what I quote was not. Hadith but your last statement say there is nothing wrong with the hadith I quote,(confused)

The Islamic books (hadith and quran) I provide was clear,the facts that the pagan practice such before muhammed approved it for the worship of Allah debunked All you claimed.

How can the very same two mountains
that were sacred to the pagans become
the “SYMBOL OF ALLAH”all of a sudden?
Moreover, how is it that the very same
pagan ritual of running between the two
hills is also retained in Islam? In
addition, why was the Arab pagan ritual
of going around the Ka’ba seven times,
also retained in Islam?

Its obvious you did not understand the explanation.
Kindly re-read my reply perhaps you will grab the argument for the second reading. Try and read to understand first before you tender your criticism.

Unbias:

How are you brother? It seems ages.

I'm fine bro. Thanks. Hope you, your loved ones are fine too. Really its being a long time.

ifeann is a bad student of religion. at best she speaks english and polish and finish, along with many nigerian languages and dialects she has mastered. definitely she is not a master of arabic language. definitely not the Quranic arabic and for sure not the Quran itself. thinking that mutawafeeka has to be that Jesus was dead when Allah raised him [AS] up disregards possibilities of messages of the verse, the contextual message, literal meaning among others and other parts of the Quran talking about Jesus in Surah Nissa.

please read the below thorough explanation by muslim that understand Arabic and read the Quran which he is a student of.



Saturday, 8 September 2012
Concept of "mutawaffi" in Quran and Jesus (as)


secondriseofislam..com/.../concept-of-mutawaffi-in-quran-and-j..



Some people opine that hazrat Jesus (as) has died. This view is based on word ‘mutawaffika’ (al-imran-55) which is interpreted as ‘give you death’ and word ‘tawaffaytani’ (al-maidah-117) which is interpreted as ‘you gave me death’. Let us scrutinize this view on the basis of Quran.
These two verses state as follows:


[Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you (mutawaffika) and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. After that to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ (al-imran-55).
I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up (tawaffaytani), You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness (al-maidah-117).









The root of words ‘mutawaffika’ and ‘tawaffaytani’ is ‘waw, fa, and ‘ya’. From this root, dozens of verbs and participles formed have been used in Quran. The meanings of such verbs and participles used in Quran are ‘to pay/repay/fulfill in full, or ‘to take away in full’. The word ‘waffayta’ is used to state ‘taking away’ of humans; the word ‘mutawaffi’ is used for person taken away. This process of taking away does not essentially involve ‘death’. Actually, literal meaning of ‘mutawaffi’ is ‘taken away’; the metaphorical meaning of ‘mutawaffi’ is ‘deceased’. The metaphorical meaning of ‘waffayta’ is ‘death’.





The principle of interpretation of Quran is that if any words has both literal and metaphorical/idiomatic meanings, firstly, literal meaning has to be adopted. If literal meaning does not make any sense or literal meaning is contradictory to any other Quranic verses/words, in that cases such metaphorical/idiomatic meaning may be adopted which is not contradictory to any other Quranic verses/words. Both literal and metaphorical/idiomatic meanings may also be adopted, if they are not contradictory to each other, or contradictory to any other Quranic verses/words. The author has applied this principle of interpretation throughout study of Quran, and finds it an effective check on many whimsical interpretations of Quran.










In the light of above mentioned principle of interpretation, the word ‘mutawaffika’ (al-imran-55) is to be translated with literal meanings of this word, because literal meanings (i.e. will take you) do make a sense and do not contradict any other Quranic verses. Therefore according to principle of interpretation described above, literal meaning of the word (mutawaffika) is to be adopted. But metaphorical meaning (i.e. will give you death) of this word is not to be adopted due to following two reasons.




Firstly, metaphorical meanings of this word contradict the Quranic verse (i.e. al-imran-55) which states:
[Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you (mutawaffika) and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. After that to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ (al-imran-55).













A plain reading of sequence of this verse tells clearly that first Allah will give Christians (people following Jesus at that time [at least his helpers/awariyun]) [spiritual] superiority over the people not believing hazrat Isa (as) and this superiority will continue till Qiyamah; after that (word ‘summa’ in Arabic language means ‘after that’) hazrat Isa (and people alive when Jesus returns) will return to Allah (means they will die [on (or/near) Qiyamah] and Allah will judge between the people in which they used to differ. It may be noted that addressee of this verse is hazrat Isa (as); therefore the word ‘ merjiokum’/ your return’ includes hazrat Isa (as) as well. [it may also be noted that Muslims do have faith in Hazrat Isa (as); Muslims will not be dominated by Christians forever like non-Muslim non-Christians will be dominated forever by Christians]. In short, al-imran 55 states that first Allah will give Christians superiority over the people not having faith in hazrat Isa (as) and this superiority will continue till Qiyamah, and after that hazrat Isa will die (for details plz see my article " Descending of Hazrat Isa (Jesus)".










We can draw two conclusions from this verse. First is that the word ‘mutawaffeeka’ used in (al-imran-55) does not mean “ will give you death”; because it is obvious that when hazrat Isa (as) was made ‘mutawaffi’, Christians were not superior to people not having faith in Isa (as); whereas al-imran-55 clearly states that first Christians will attain superiority over non-Muslim and non-Christian people and after establishment of that superiority Jesus will be given death; it means word ‘mutawaffeeka’ does not mean “ give you death”; rather it means “will take you”.
We can also conclude that death yet has not occured to hazrat Isa (as). Death will occur to hazrat Isa (as) after Christians would have gotten superiority over the people not having faith in hazrat Isa (as) and death will occur to hazrat Isa (and people) on (or/near) Qiyamah. It means word ‘mutawaffika’ does not mean ‘ will give you death’. Now that Christians have got superiority over non-Muslim and non-Christian people not having faith in hazrat Isa (as), he may descend to this earth whenever Allah wills it so and he and people will die on qiyamah.










Second reason of not using metaphorical meanings (i.e.will give you death) of this word (i.e. mutawaffika) is that word ‘waffa/t’ has been used in Quran side by side with word 'death'; this fact shows they are two different words. For instance al-nisaa-15 states “Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them (yatawaffahunna) or Allah ordains for them [another] way” (al-nisaa-15).
“And He is the subjugator over His servants, and He sends over you guardian-angels until, when death comes to one of you, Our messengers take him/ ‘tawaffathu’, and they do not fail [in their duties] (al-anaam-61).
“Allah takes the souls (yatawaffa) at the time of their death,… (al-zumar-42).












In all above quoted verses, using ‘waffa/t’ and ‘death’ side by side reveals that these are two different processes/words; If 'waffa/t' and 'death' have been synonymous, these two words would not have been used side by side. It is against principle of comprehensiveness that two words should be used, if meaning may be conveyed with one word. If 'waffa/t' and 'death' have been synonymous words, only one word- either 'waffa/t' or 'death'- would have been enough to describe the same meanings. In other words, 'waffa/t’ does not essentially involve ‘death’. For instance al-anaam-60 states “And it is He who takes your souls (yatawaffakum) by night and knows what you have committed by day. Then He revives you therein that a specified term may be fulfilled. Then to Him will be your return; then He will inform you about what you used to do. This verse states about taking away human soul in night (during sleep); it is obvious during sleep human does not die; he only becomes unconscious. It means in this verse ‘waffa/t’ does not mean ‘death’.












We may conclude that words ‘mutawaffi’ and ‘waffa/t’ have literal as well as metaphorical meanings. The literal meanings of these words are ‘taken away’ and ‘taking away’ respectively. The metaphorical meanings of these words are ‘deceased’ and ‘death’ respectively. According to principle of interpretation of Quran, firstly literal meanings are to be adopted, if such meanings make a sense and do not contradict any other Quranic verses; if it is not so, metaphorical meanings may be adopted. In case of words ‘mutawaffi’ and ‘waffa/t’, literal meanings i.e. ‘taken away’ and ‘taking away’ are to be used where literal meanings make a sense and do not contradict other Quranic verses. Whereas metaphorical meanings(i.e. deceased and death) are not to be used where these meanings are contradictory to Quranic verses. The word ‘mutawaffika’ (ale imran-55) -made out of ‘mutawaffi’ and ‘waffa/t’- [the word used to justify death of hazrat Jesus (as)] is to be used with literal meanings i.e. ‘will take you’ because these meanings make a sense and not contradictory to any other Quranic verses; whereas metaphorical meanings (i.e. ‘will give you death) of this word is not to be adopted because they are contradictory to Quranic verses.












However metaphorical meanings of these words ‘mutawaffi’ and ‘waffa/t’ may also be adopted where such meanings are not contradictory to other Quranic verses, and where metaphorical meanings of these words are not contradictory to literal meanings of these words (it may please be appreciated that 'contradictory' and 'different' are two different things; the meanings may be different but not contradictory). Thus the word 'tawaffaytani' (al-maidah-117) [made out of 'waffa/t'] may be interpreted with metaphorical meanings i.e. you gave me death. But it may be noted that it does not mean hazrat Isa (as) has been given death in present time (or two thousand years ago). The dialogue between Hazrat Isa (as) and Allah mentioned in al-maidah-117 is to take place during qiyamah, and obviously, before taking place of this dialogue during qiyamah, hazrat Isa (as) would have been given death after his second coming. Thus even if we interpret word 'tawaffaytani' (al-maidah-117) as ' you gave me death' , it does not mean that death has occured to hazrat Isa (as) or that his second coming would not happen; he will descend and after that he will die on (or/near) qiyamah.
In short, death has not yet occurred to Hazrat Jesus (as).











(It may be noted that Qiyamah is a thousands of years long day having many phases. In the first phase, all humans on earth would be given death; in the second phase, all humans would be resurrected; in the third phase, all humans would be gathered; in the fourth, all humans would be made answerable for their deeds; then human deeds would be weighed; then all humans would be consigned to the paradise or the hell. Allah knows how long each phase is and which phases are overlapping. However ale-imran-55 suggests that death of hazrat Isa (a.s) will mark the beginning of first phase of Qiyamah. Allah knows how long would be this first phase. But many 'ahadith' suggest this first phase will NOT be ended in a moment; it will continue for many years).

AlBaqir:


Its obvious you did not understand the explanation.
Kindly re-read my reply perhaps you will grab the argument for the second reading. Try and read to understand first before you tender your criticism.

who do you think you are chatting with? Little boy?
1. Is the Arab pagan doing tawaf between safa and marwa? Yes
2.did the quran admits it was a pagan ritual? Yes.
3.did muhammed retained the practice? Yes.
This is not logic, this is simple as sterted in the quran.

Rilwayne001:
The very fact that sin remains and flourishes in the world, 2000+ years after Christ supposedly "conquered" sin on the cross, is more than enough for the non-deluded to see that the judicial execution of that one man is perfectly meaningless in terms of redeeming the spiritual state of mankind as a race.

WAS MAN BORN A SINNER?

While islam preach and propagate the sinlessness of man from birth, and attributing sin to whoever has done it alone, the religion of Christianity condemn all mankind as sinners-a perpetual sinners indeed who must inherit the original sin.
The muslim’s Holy Quran records only the doing of sin to the doer of sin in:

Quran 74v38: every soul will be held in pledge for (all) its deed

Quran 17v15: whosoever choose to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good, and whoever goes astray, did to his own hurt, and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden. Wherever, we would never punish (any community for the wrong they may do) until we have sent an apostle to give warning.

Quran 4v111: and if one sins, he earns it against his soul for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

But on the other hand, the bible came with the notion of original sin that “Jesus has redeemed the world by sacrificing his life to cancel the sin of mankind” that, that original sin was the sin inherited from Adam and Eve through birth!

The bible says concerning the inherited sinfulness of man as follows: Romans 3v23: for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

The sinfulness of man is thus made manifested in these verses and some unmentioned one. This doctrine is not accidental. The sinfulness of man, according to the bible, is that man is a perpetual sinner, born into sin, reared and nurtured as a sinner because in Job 25v4: how can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

It therefore implies that, as long as man continue to be someone born of a woman, he cannot be clean! Even if he does all kind of righteous deeds until his death, he will remain unclean. This will also be applicable even if he accepted Jesus as his saviour! Why? Cos he would remain someone born of a woman and even though he became born again! The reason is not far-fetched, the bible says in:

Isaiah 64v6: we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousness are as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

This inherited sinfulness of man was nurtured from the idea that Adam’s sin was later inherited by all men in:
Romans 5v12: wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned.

The doctrine of man’s inherited sinfulness can be said, without slightest doubt, a doctrine never preached by the earlier biblical prophet but an idea of some later biblical characters (eg Paul). They at the same time, contradicted themselves on what they have raised somewhere else in the same bible. The two following quotations will easily disprove that, men are sinners or that man inherited sin from his parent.

Ezekiel 18v20: the soul that sin shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son, the righteous shall be upon himself. OR
Deu 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

It therefore implies that the idea “none is righteous no, not one (Roman 3v9-12) is a fabrication, a naked fantastic lies, that is propagated with ignorance and fantasy. The following passages shows that some people are righteous and never born with any inheritable sin.
Mark 6v20: herod feared John knowing that he was a righteous and holy man.
Daniel 6v4: Daniel was faithful, no error or fault was found on him.
Luke 1v16: Zechariah and his wife were both righteous.
1st Samuel 12v3-5: Samuel never oppressed…he is free from all faults.
Mathew 1v19: Joseph was a just man
Luke 2v25: simeon was devout and righteous one etc

If we hold the word “how then can men be righteous before God? How can one who is born of a woman be clean (job 25v4) etc, to be true, then the passage will create more problem, cos one Jesus is born from a woman, then Jesus could not be clean either judging from that assertion.

Two, if Jesus is born by a woman, then he would be said to have inherited the original sin from his mother.

Three, if the word “ all have sinned” be taken to its full length, Jesus would be included among the “all” cos he is born of a woman.

However, in all manner of consideration, if the original sin is inherited and children are born into sin, Jesus would not have awarded “innocence” and “pure” state to them, neither would he have said in,

Mathew 18v3: and said, verily I say unto you, except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdon of heaven. OR
Mark 10v15: verily I say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter heaven.

If all of us are born sinner because of Adam’s sin, then it portrayed God as one inflicting the punishment of a criminal to one who is not. This is equal to injustice. But our God is not unjust as in

NOW IFEANN SHOULD ATTEMPT THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS

1. Why can God be unjust when he had sent many prophets to preach repentance? How can countless men inherit a sin they have never committed? And if sin means the breaking of God’s law (according to dictionary), which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called forbidden tree?.

2. If God’s anger was kindled against Adam and Eve for their disobedience, could the anger persisted on to the generation of Adam and Eve. Remember this God’s action
psalm 30v5: for his anger endureth but a moment and his favour is for a life time.



3. From whence, then, could arise the solitary and strange conceit that the Almighty, who had millions of worlds equally dependent on his protection, should quit the care of all the rest, and come to die in our world, because, they say, one man and one woman had eaten an apple?

4. "Christian guy rapes innocent Muslim girl to death. Muslim girl goes to hell because she didn't believe Jesus is the son of God. Christian guy ask for forgiveness. Makes heaven." whats your take on this incident?

5. Simply put, it is either men have not inherited any sins or that bible has told lie when it says as seen above that John, Daniel, Zechariah and his wife, Samuel, Joseph were all righteous men! Or are a sinners called righteous one in the bible?


To be continued...

I invite you to read Dominum et Vivificantem by Pope John Paul II. I'm sure it answers your question. Blessings.

Papist:

I invite you to read Dominum et Vivificantem by Pope John Paul II. I'm sure it answers your question. Blessings.

He wont read it.. find his imam and let his imam spoon feed him with it..this one only obeys his imam

malvisguy212:
who do you think you are chatting with? Little boy?
1. Is the Arab pagan doing tawaf between safa and marwa? Yes
2.did the quran admits it was a pagan ritual? Yes.
3.did muhammed retained the practice? Yes.
This is not logic, this is simple as sterted in the quran.

Malvis, pls dont expose your weak side to albaqir. Dont let him know you are robotic. This topic you brought was explained to you on another threads...remember I posted detailed explanation. You shut up afterward. I can't remember the thread but probably back in february. Me and 9jaforlife dealt with you on it yet you still brought it up. It will be a shame if baqir also come to same conclusion the way me and others did about you.

Remember, me, rilwayne001, lagoshia, tala9ja, 9jaforlife said the same thing about you?. Do you want baqir to come to that conclusion as well?. Please think. Thanks

Ifeann:


He wont read it.. find his imam and let his imam spoon feed him with it..this one only obeys his imam

Good riddance

Have you ever read it?

Ifeann:


He wont read it.. find his imam and let his imam spoon feed him with it..this one only obeys his imam

No. You simply digress the op. Smart move. I have noticed you. When it comes to exploiting christianity, you take your leave. You know you are bogus. You only want to critisize Islam. You have no knowledge. You just trying to fit in. Pope is not here. Op is not addressing the pope.

Same thing you said when a muslim post video or link, you critisized it. This clearly shows you have no idea what christianity is all about. So rilwayne have no biz with pope. Obviously papist, you and others are clueless.

Like rilwayne rightly said before, once you admit defeat, the rest runing behind your skirt are finished. It is like cutting off head...the body is useless.

By th way, how well did you carry your god yesterday?. Did you have fun carrying your god that was nailed on the cross?.

Empiree:
Malvis, pls dont expose your weak side to albaqir. Dont let him know you are robotic. This topic you brought was explained to you on another threads...remember I posted detailed explanation. You shut up afterward. I can't remember the thread but probably back in february. Me and 9jaforlife dealt with you on it yet you still brought it up. It will be a shame if baqir also come to same conclusion the way me and others did about you.

Remember, me, rilwayne001, lagoshia, tala9ja, 9jaforlife said the same thing about you?. Do you want baqir to come to that conclusion as well?. Please think. Thanks

keep on deceiving yourself. The hadith and quran proved everything.

malvisguy212:
who do you think you are chatting with? Little boy?

Hey yah! Sorry if that pains.

malvisguy212:

1. Is the Arab pagan doing tawaf between safa and marwa? Yes

Before the Arab pagan hijacked the system and pollute the practice with their idols, it is obvious Prophet Ibrahim and his family first established the practice which pilgrims used to perform during their pilgrimage to Mecca. Bible called it "Bakka" and Qur'an confirmed the name to be an old name used for Mecca.

malvisguy212:

2.did the quran admits it was a pagan ritual? Yes.

Where does Qur'an admits it was a pagan ritual? I bet you do not know the meaning of admit

malvisguy212:

3.did muhammed retained the practice? Yes.

There's no "retain" here. It is re-establishment of the practice of prophet Ibrahim (as) which the pagan polluted with idols and bad satanic intentions. Muhammad destroyed their idols, set the intentions of the muslims clean and focus to the One True God.

AlBaqir:


Hey yah! Sorry if that pains.



Before the Arab pagan hijacked the system and pollute the practice with their idols, it is obvious Prophet Ibrahim and his family first established the practice which pilgrims used to perform during their pilgrimage to Mecca. Bible called it "Bakka" and Qur'an confirmed the name to be an old name used for Mecca.



Where does Qur'an admits it was a pagan ritual? I bet you do not know the meaning of admit



There's no "retain" here. It is re-establishment of the practice of prophet Ibrahim (as) which the pagan polluted with idols and bad satanic intentions. Muhammad destroyed their idols, set the intentions of the muslims clean and focus to the One True God.

did Abraham performed tawaf between safa and marwa?
Surah 2:158: “Lo! (the mountains) As-
Safa and Al-Marwah are among the
indications of Allah. It is therefore NO
SIN for him who is on pilgrimage to
the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to
go around them ( AS THE PAGAN
CUSTOM IS ).” (Pickthall)

The word"NO SIN" indicate the muslim doubt muhammed of performing tawaf between safa and AL-marwah. Before this revelation was revealed to clear there doubt they understand the pagan practice it.

Why will Allah allow the pagan to hijack the manners of his worship?

^^^

And the above is an evidence of not passing through a reputable school or that you just want to remain a featherhead that can't decipher simple explanation.
Argueing with malvisguy is total waste of time because he doesn't read refutations to his shenanigans all he does is copy and paste like a robot and when his copy/paste has been refuted you copy and paste them again . wtf!!!

Different people with Different problem...Smh

Rilwayne001:
^^^

And the above is an evidence of not passing through a reputable school or that you just want to remain a featherhead that can't decipher simple explanation.
Argueing with malvisguy is total waste of time because he doesn't read refutations to his shenanigans all he does is copy and paste like a robot and when his copy/paste has been refuted you copy and paste them again . wtf!!!

Different people with Different problem...Smh

keep on deceiving yourself, even your brother lanre accepts there are similarities between Islam and Hindu.

malvisguy212:
keep on deceiving yourself, even your brother lanre accepts there are similarities between Islam and Hindu.

ogaa, go and sleep jor

Rilwayne001:
^^^

And the above is an evidence of not passing through a reputable school or that you just want to remain a featherhead that can't decipher simple explanation.
Argueing with malvisguy is total waste of time because he doesn't read refutations to his shenanigans all he does is copy and paste like a robot and when his copy/paste has been refuted you copy and paste them again . wtf!!!

Different people with Different problem...Smh

In fact, I wonder how you manage to cope with this set of guys. It sucks!

usermane:
PS: Ifeann, don't be fooled by those hidding behind Qur'an now that some fallacies of their traditions have been exposed. There are several hadith contradicting Qur'an or unconfirmed by the Qur'an that these traditionalists keep.

Here are few examples; The Mahdi, the punishment of the grave, Muhammad interceeding for believers, Muhammad performing miracles and several other doctrines and statutes. Given that, isn't it dishonest for these same people to come deny a certain hadith on ground that the hadith contradict Qur'an?

Wow

This post sound soo christian!

Oh! I forgot this is usermane, the anti Islam christian agent parading himself as a 'Muslim'

Rilwayne001:
^^^

And the above is an evidence of not passing through a reputable school or that you just want to remain a featherhead that can't decipher simple explanation.
Argueing with malvisguy is total waste of time because he doesn't read refutations to his shenanigans all he does is copy and paste like a robot and when his copy/paste has been refuted you copy and paste them again . wtf!!!

Different people with Different problem...Smh

I don't know how he does it!

malvisguy212:
did Abraham performed tawaf between safa and marwa?
Surah 2:158: “Lo! (the mountains) As-
Safa and Al-Marwah are among the
indications of Allah. It is therefore NO
SIN for him who is on pilgrimage to
the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to
go around them ( AS THE PAGAN
CUSTOM IS ).” (Pickthall)

The word"NO SIN" indicate the muslim doubt muhammed of performing tawaf between safa and AL-marwah. Before this revelation was revealed to clear there doubt they understand the pagan practice it.

Why will Allah allow the pagan to hijack the manners of his worship?

Malvis you're STILL asking this question??

You're a character

AlBaqir:


In fact, I wonder how you manage to cope with this set of guys. It sucks!

I knew the guy would eventually exposed himself to you. Sucks indeed

9jaforlife:


Wow This post sound soo christian! Oh! I forgot this is userma.ne, the anti Islam christian agent parading himself as a 'Muslim'

that's him for you. He's truly "maradona". He's here and there with his bogus philosophy. So unstable like dean Ambrose

9jaforlife:


Malvis you're STILL asking this question?? You're a character

Character indeed

AlBaqir:


In fact, I wonder how you manage to cope with this set of guys. It sucks!

It really sucks, thats why I try as much as possible to ignore him most times.

Rilwayne001:


ogaa, go and sleep jor

yeah, I can sleep with my two eyes close, But you? You need to be worried because there are evidence in your quran that say Islam is paganism and all muslims already know there fate.

malvisguy212:
first you said what I quote was not. Hadith but your last statement say there is nothing wrong with the hadith I quote,(confused)

The Islamic books (hadith and quran) I provide was clear,the facts that the pagan practice such before muhammed approved it for the worship of Allah debunked All you claimed.

How can the very same two mountains
that were sacred to the pagans become
the “SYMBOL OF ALLAH”all of a sudden?
Moreover, how is it that the very same
pagan ritual of running between the two
hills is also retained in Islam? In
addition, why was the Arab pagan ritual
of going around the Ka’ba seven times,
also retained in Islam?

Seriously you have no honesty in you. YYou have raised this issue and you have been well replied in many cases. I used to think you had some sincerity left in you but all I see now is Ifeann. You are nothing but a recycler of answered questions. Shame on you

udatso:


Seriously you have no honesty in you. YYou have raised this issue and you have been well replied in many cases. I used to think you had some sincerity left in you but all I see now is Ifeann. You are nothing but a recycler of answered questions. Shame on you

let see if you are sincere.

Doing Tawaf between Safa and Marwa is
an Islamic ritual associated with the
pilgrimage to Mecca. Safa and Marwa are two mounts, located at Mecca. This ritual entails Muslims walking frantically
between the two mounts, seven times.
This was originally a pagan pre-Islamic
practice. Muhammad retained it for
Islam, sanctioning it with yet another
Qur'anic revelation.

Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin
Malik: "Did you use to dislike to
perform Tawaf between Safa and
Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the
CEREMONIES OF THE DAYS OF THE PRE-ISLAMIC
PERIOD OF IGNORANCE, till Allah
revealed: 'Verily! (The two mountains)
As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the
SYMBOLS OF Allah. It is therefore no sin
for him who performs the pilgrimage
to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to
perform Tawaf between them.'
" (2.158)
Sahih Bukhari 2:26:710

How is it possible that pagan ritual become the symbols of Allah?