dorox:
I see no reason why this topic was not posted in the muslim only section, or is your your muslim only section now a desolate waste land of inactivity that you now post a topic that should concern only muslims in the general religious page?
Mods should please do their job and send this thread to the islamic section where it belongs.

Abuamam:


Ok. Jazakum Allah khayran. Will love to get some titles of their books.

9jaforlife:
Very insightful... Jazak Allah Khairan!

Empiree:
Kindly post useful info (if any) on Sura 33:56 either on this thread or the other thread titled " Muslim side talk" in Islam For Muslim section. Note that Question01 username is the same brother "usermane". He probably had problem with his account at that time. Me and him discussed this issue of "salaawat" on muslim side talk thread too.

I understand he emphasized on "darood" I didnt quiet understand what he meant before because I am not used to the phrase. I grew up with "salawaat". They mean the same thing. He's actually referring to dua "Salat ibrahima" in tashahud being shirk. He's still wrong though. But me, i grew up with Malik School Of Law. Salat Ibrahimah is never obligatory in tashahud nor is it forbidden or an act of shirk. I only used to recite basic tashahud without salat ibrahimah. Salat ibrahima is NOT a condition for acceptance (intercession) of obligatory salat. He
thinks it is because of solitary hadith he quoted on the other thread.

Careful with him though when you eventually confront one another on any subject because he's "maradona" on NL. I shall fold my arms and watch when that happens



@9jaforlife, you appear to be recently active here. I didnt see you here before.

[7:52] We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.

[50:45] We are fully aware of everything they utter, while you have no power over them. Therefore, remind with this Quran, those who reverence My warnings.

we Obey Allah through Quran

how do we Obey Rasool ( when Rasool doesnt exist with out Divine Message )

could you plz name the Divine Book other than Glorious Quran, by which we can Obey Rasool , !!

how do you propose to Obey Rasool , cite a Divine Book other than Quran plz !

Everything that the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) desires, God desires! As God loves the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) more than anyone or anything else!

Love and following of the pure and perfect Prophet of God, the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is necessary in Islam!

If you do not have the love of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and do not follow the Prophet (SAW) you are not following the right path.

The Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is the greatest of all God's creation and is the closest one to the Almighty! The Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is a Prophet for ALL times and even in prayer we address(i:e salam alaika ayua nabiy) the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) just as if he is in front of us.

The Prophet Muhammad (SAW) IS the Quran, as the Quran was not in book form until much later... It was revealed to the Prophet (SAW) straight from God in his (SAW) mind! Therefore the original Quran and the Quran IS the Prophet Muhammad (SAW)! Who is the final and greatest Prophet of God, and a Prophet of ALL times!

In the Quran it states that the martyrs are not dead, and the Prophets are of a higher rank than any martyr!

The concept of death is far different in Islam than in any other religion!

Translated verses:

“O ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak).” (8:20)

“O ye who believe! Give your response to Allah and His Messenger…” (8:24)

Surah (59:7) “Take whatever the Apostle (SAW) gave you and stay away from whatever he forbade you.”

“O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger (SAW)” (4:59) translated verse!

The Quran says (Translated): “Obey Allah, and obey the messenger (SAW)” (5:92)

“He who obeys the messenger (SAW) obeys Allah…” (4:80)

So called Quranists reject these parts of the Quran, and therefore, they reject the Quran! And reject Allah, and reject the Prophets (SAW/AS)!

The so called Quranists do Shirk and idoltry, and liken God to themselves. They are a misguided people!

They worship their egos, they lack logic and reason!

The Quran is based off the life of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW)!

You can NEVER understand the Quran unless you understand the holy Prophet (SAW)! This is a pre-requisite! This is done through the hadith!

The deeper your understanding of the Prophet (SAW) is the more you understand the Quran!

Unlike Moses (AS), who was given the Torah at once on Mount Sinai… The Quran was revealed to the Prophet (SAW) in stages during his life! Certain parts of the Quran were given to the Prophet (SAW) during certain instances in his life! And the proper comprehension of those verses can only be done if you understand what was going on during the life of the Prophet (SAW) during that time (which is only known through the hadith)!

Translated verse (17:106) “…We have revealed it (the Quran) in stages.”

The Book form of the Quran didn’t happen until later! When all parts of the Quran were compiled, and the Prophet (SAW) ordered it to be arranged in a certain way!

The Quran is based off the life of the Prophet (SAW), and the faith of a Muslim is the holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW)!

The Quran says follow the Prophet Muhammad (SAW)! Those who do not can not call themselves Muslims!

Sunnis and Shias, and all major Islamic schools know this!

But sadly their small cult-group does not!

PS:

It clearly mentions in the Quran that in each generation there will be those who are following the right path.

No where in Islamic history, during the Islamic golden age... Did any single Muslim of any sect say only follow the Quran... This is fallacious and unIslamic. No significant or insignificant figure said this!

Which further proves Quranists are following a misguided path...

true2god:
Quran will not make any sense without the hadith. The five pillars of Islam i

There is no way quran can make any sense without making reference to hadith and the sunnah for better understanding.

Empiree:
They, "Quranites" also use this verse of Quran to justify their stand. The verse is located in sura Nahl 89

"....And We have sent down to you the Book as clarification for all things and as guidance and mercy and good tidings for the Muslims.

They say this is an evidence that we dont need the Sunnah because everything has been clarified. These people fail to read Quran correctly. They only read whatever juz they desire. But a verse in the same chapter says:

[We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

So who would do the clarification to the people what was sent down upon them?. The prophet (Allah's blessings and peace be upon him and his household). Very simple. If Qur'an was clear without the explanation of prophet(PBUH) this verse would have no meaning. So how do we achieve this?. The answer is in Qur'an itself:

true2god:
Quran will not make any sense without the hadith. The five pillars of Islam is in the hadith and not in the quran.

Most hadith rejecters do not want to come to terms with the deeds of their prophet as contained in the hadith. The only flimsy excuse they give is that those embarrassing hadiths are not authentic and are fabricated.

Quran, as a religious text, can not be used for any logical study because of the non-chronological order of arrangement. Unlike muslim claims, you cannot read, let say 10 to 20 consecutive verses, and make any meaning out of it. This is why muslims are encourage just to recite it in arabic, whether they understand it or not, and not to study it. And over 90% of non-arabs that recite the quran do not even understand what they are reciting. They just recite it like a nursery rhyme for kindergattens!

There is no way quran can make any sense without making reference to hadith and the sunnah for better understanding.

Empiree:
Sorry buddy. Dont get it twisted. Hadith and Sunnah are two different things. Hadith is "saying". Sunnah is "practical". Practices of Quran is embedded in Muhammad(saw). And we are to follow him. Very simple.

Quran however, mentioned all obligatory duties to observe. So all obligatory practices: Believe in One God, Salat, Zakar, Ramadan, Haj are mentioned in the Quran. Hadith and Sunnah are practical aspect of it. Very simple.

Empiree:
Who Are Quranites/Quranists?

Quranism (Arabic: قرآنيون‎ Qurʾāniyūn) is an Islamic movement that holds the Qur'an to be the only authentic source of Islamic faith. Quranists generally reject, therefore, the religious authority of hadith, Sunnah, and reject traditional Sharia Law. This is in contrast to the Sunni, Shia and Ibadi doctrines, which consider hadith essential for Islamic faith.

Bassam Zawadi says:

"Why don't we have any record of early Muslims completely rejecting hadith?
The hadith rejecter might argue back by saying "we don't blindly follow people; you are committing the appeal to tradition fallacy".

However, you answer back that Allah says in the Quran...

Surah 9:100

The vanguard (of Islam)- the first of those who forsook (their homes) and of those who gave them aid, and (also) those who follow them in (all) good deeds,- well- pleased is God with them, as are they with Him: for them hath He prepared gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein for ever: that is the supreme felicity.

Mohsin Khan Translation
And the foremost to embrace Islam of the Muhajirun (those who migrated from Makkah to Al-Madinah) and the Ansar (the citizens of Al-Madinah who helped and gave aid to the Muhajirun ) and also those who followed them exactly (in Faith). Allah is well-pleased with them as they are well-pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success.
In this verse, Allah is saying that the Muhajirin (those who migrated from Mecca to Medina) and the Ansar (the people of Medina) and those righteous people that came after them have been promised heaven.

Now, how can Allah promise heaven to these people when they are the very same ones who transmitted the hadith to us? As a matter of fact they are the same people that passed the Qur'an down to us. The Quran is passed on to us by "Mutawattir" narrations. Mutawattir narrations are narrations that have been transmitted by so many people that it would be impossible for all of the transmitters to fabricate such a narration. However, we have an enormous amount of Mutawattir hadith. There is a list of Mutawatir hadith http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/Index.asp?Lang=ENG&Type=3 that teach things that are not taught in the Quran. How can you reject their authenticity with no objective evidence?

true2god:
Hadith contains narrations regarding the deeds of mohammed, aisha, the sahabas and some other important people in Islamic history (during the period of mohammed). It entails their lifestyles which modern\pious muslims must emulate, hence hadith is both a narration and a practical part of Islam.

The sunnah is purely devoted to mohammed, his lifestyle and his instructions. I shouldn't be the one to explain your text to you. In Islamic law and jusrispundece, the hadith and the sunnah is more relevant than the quran. Over 90% of sharia laws are from the hadith and the sunnah.

It is only an ignorant muslim that will say he is a quranite only. Quran, if read alone, does\will not make any common sense. If you understand arabic and you read and study the quran in that language you will agree with me that reading the quran alone (minus the hadith and the sunnah) will not make any common sense.

And it is unfortunate that hadith, unlike the quran, is an exclusive right of mullahs and Islamic teachers. An average muslim on the street have not even seen a single piece of hadith collected hence most muslims are very ignorant of what Islam is all about, aside from the general beliefs and mandatory 5-times daily prayers.

usermane:

Think, if Muhammad did explain Qur'an as traditionalists imply, he would have recorded this explanations along with the Qur'an.

Peace!

Empiree:
You have a problem here. If prophet Muhammad(Allah's blessings and peace be upon him and his household)'s explanation of some verses of Quran are to be recorded along with Quran (within Quran) as you implied, then, that's distortion. People would have problem distibguishing word of Allah from his prophet. There would have been mix ups like Bible for instance. Word of Allah is Quran, tafsir must be separated. Very simple

Wasalam

usermane:


so, weren't there enough papers for Muhammad to record his explanations separately in Book format before his death, as he recorded the Qur'an?

Empiree:
Is The Quran Incomplete Without Hadith?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-4jC5iAl8E

true2god:
You and Dr. Naik are commedians. Dr naik said and I qoute 'the quran itself is complete but you need to read the commentary of the quran to understand it. And hadith is the commentary of the quran'. And the illiterate and gullible audience, who came to watch the showmanship of the charllatan doctor, clapped.

If the quran is complete, you dont need to use any commentary to understand it, that means a primary school pupil can read it and comprehend ASAP. But in the issue of the quran, it is not so. The literary work in the quran is zero, you can hardly join a consecutive verse of 10 and make any meaning out of it (you can proove me wrong).

For the Doctor to make such a contraditory assertion and you still post the video, i begin to wonder the thought pattern of some people. If the quran is self explanatory, you do not need any external source to explain its text, thats a simple logic.

Since the quran is not complete, you need hadith to make-up for where quran is deficient. And even the hadith, like the quran, is grossly contraditory. The hadith used by the sunni is quite different from the ones used by the shia muslims, hence both sects will have contraditory beliefs in some writings of the quran.

So spare us the garbage that quran is complete. Tell that to your willing audience this coming friday, who are always waiting for your next lies and dogmas.

Empiree:
Rulings/practices that DO NOT CHANGE i:e Tawheed, Salat, Ramadan, Haj, zakat, Qadar. These are derived primarily from Quran. Also Hudood (punishment) directly recommended from Quran do not change. If hadith said opposite, it has to be set aside even if it's in sahih. For instance, punishement for theft, adultery, murder are mentioned in the Quran.

dalaman:


What is the recommended Quranic punishment for gays and adulterers?

Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.

Say, [O Muhammad], "O mankind, indeed I am the Messenger of Allah to you all, [from Him] to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. There is no deity except Him; He gives life and causes death." So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him that you may be guided.

And you did not recite before it any scripture, nor did you inscribe one with your right hand. Otherwise the falsifiers would have had [cause for] doubt.

He it is Who sent among the unlettered ones a Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) from among themselves, reciting to them His Verses, purifying them (from the filth of disbelief and polytheism), and teaching them the Book (this Qur'an, Islamic laws and Islamic jurisprudence) and Al-Hikmah (As-Sunnah: legal ways, orders, acts of worship of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم). And verily, they had been before in manifest error;