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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) (7207 Views)
Hadith Forbidding Hellfire To Anyone Who Informs Another Of A New Month (2) (3) (4)
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 9:04pm On Feb 02, 2015 |
dorox:To be honest with you it was not intentional. I thought it was in the right section. Hope mod ( OAM4J )will move it. Please mod, kindly move this thread to Islam section if you can. Thanks |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 11:32pm On Feb 02, 2015 |
Abuamam:I dont know of any known book(s) published by them. If any, most likely with enormous political views. But I see their articles on their twisted verses of Qu'ran online. You can definitely see lots of that. They reject sending salaams on the prophet (saw). The one we have here said it's shirk...that we invoke rosul doing that. His heretic views attract fanatic Christians on NL. If you ask them (Quraniyun) why they dont say salalahu alaiy wasalam (i:e Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) when prophet's name is mentioned, they say it's not in the Quran, therefore, not necessary according to them. Not even shias agree with them. The one we have here said we muslims are polytheists. He doesnt call himself Muslim either. He plays tricks with it....fooling himself. He has problems with Sura 33:56. |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by 9jaforlife: 2:49am On Feb 21, 2015 |
Very insightful... Jazak Allah Khairan! 1 Like |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 3:43am On Feb 21, 2015 |
9jaforlife:Kindly post useful info (if any) on Sura 33:56 either on this thread or the other thread titled " Muslim side talk" in Islam For Muslim section. Note that Question01 username is the same brother "usermane". He probably had problem with his account at that time. Me and him discussed this issue of "salaawat" on muslim side talk thread too. I understand he emphasized on "darood" I didnt quiet understand what he meant before because I am not used to the phrase. I grew up with "salawaat". They mean the same thing. He's actually referring to dua "Salat ibrahima" in tashahud being shirk. He's still wrong though. But me, i grew up with Malik School Of Law. Salat Ibrahimah is never obligatory in tashahud nor is it forbidden or an act of shirk. I only used to recite basic tashahud without salat ibrahimah. Salat ibrahima is NOT a condition for acceptance (intercession) of obligatory salat. He thinks it is because of solitary hadith he quoted on the other thread. Careful with him though when you eventually confront one another on any subject because he's "maradona" on NL. I shall fold my arms and watch when that happens ![]() @9jaforlife, you appear to be recently active here. I didnt see you here before. |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by 9jaforlife: 5:24am On Feb 21, 2015 |
Empiree: Basically I think Q33:56 is an instruction that Muslims shoul perform durood/pray/seek Allah's mercy for Prophet Mohammed (PBUH), and that angels do that and Allah Himself does it. But some are of the opinion that since Allah is the highest authority and He is the one to which all prayers are channelled, then it's not accurate to say that Allah "prayed" for the prophet, hence the appropriate meaning is that "Allah praised" or "Allah attended with care to" the Prophet (PBUH). With respect to Angels and humans, it is acceptable to use the word "pray", hence we are required to pray for the Prophet (PBUH) by way of seeking Allah's mercy for him. I don't see any need for stringent translations anyway, they all basically mean the same. Durood is the same as Salaawat, like you rightly said. Salat Ibrahim is neither a shirk nor obligatory, some Muslims don't even know how to recite it. The most important thing is our piousness, nobody can be perfect. May Allah accept our efforts (Ameen). I think I've been quite active on religious threads, though such threads may not have been sectioned appropriately under Religion. Have a good day! |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 5:37am On Feb 21, 2015 |
^I don't pay him no mind. He stretches the meaning of the verse and made his conclusion. He will soon be here to challenge you. He is a funny dude |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 4:16am On Apr 04, 2015 |
They, "Quranites" also use this verse of Quran to justify their stand. The verse is located in sura Nahl 89 "....And We have sent down to you the Book as clarification for all things and as guidance and mercy and good tidings for the Muslims. They say this is an evidence that we dont need the Sunnah because everything has been clarified. These people fail to read Quran correctly. They only read whatever juz they desire. But a verse in the same chapter says: [We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought. So who would do the clarification to the people what was sent down upon them?. The prophet (Allah's blessings and peace be upon him and his household). Very simple. If Qur'an was clear without the explanation of prophet(PBUH) this verse would have no meaning. So how do we achieve this?. The answer is in Qur'an itself: He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah....; 4:80 Many of them reject mainstream obligatory practices. They have criticized all tenets of Islam including salat, 1400 yrs after the matter already sealed. To change it or try to interpolate any of the tenets is to go against Allah and His messanger. "It is not fit for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and Messenger has indeed strayed in a plain manner." (33:36) A guy from Pennsylvania put up this argument with me on Facebook some 6 yrs ago when the discussion was on the table. This is how his argument goes [7:52] We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe. I did not bother responding to the fella because they can be very tedious. Someone actually responded with post below: Everything that the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) desires, God desires! As God loves the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) more than anyone or anything else! 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 4:47am On Apr 04, 2015 |
This is "Quranite" form of "salah". I am sure they are not regulated as prophet taught us. Another Quranite would probably make salah different from this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQYPY-zNPlk |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by true2god: 9:57am On Apr 04, 2015 |
Quran will not make any sense without the hadith. The five pillars of Islam is in the hadith and not in the quran. Most hadith rejecters do not want to come to terms with the deeds of their prophet as contained in the hadith. The only flimsy excuse they give is that those embarrassing hadiths are not authentic and are fabricated. Quran, as a religious text, can not be used for any logical study because of the non-chronological order of arrangement. Unlike muslim claims, you cannot read, let say 10 to 20 consecutive verses, and make any meaning out of it. This is why muslims are encourage just to recite it in arabic, whether they understand it or not, and not to study it. And over 90% of non-arabs that recite the quran do not even understand what they are reciting. They just recite it like a nursery rhyme for kindergattens! There is no way quran can make any sense without making reference to hadith and the sunnah for better understanding. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 12:22pm On Apr 04, 2015 |
true2god:Sorry buddy. Dont get it twisted. Hadith and Sunnah are two different things. Hadith is "saying". Sunnah is "practical". Practices of Quran is embedded in Muhammad(saw). And we are to follow him. Very simple. Quran however, mentioned all obligatory duties to observe. So all obligatory practices: Believe in One God, Salat, Zakar, Ramadan, Haj are mentioned in the Quran. Hadith and Sunnah are practical aspect of it. Very simple. 1 Like |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by usermane(m): 1:22pm On Apr 04, 2015 |
Empiree: The word 'litubayyinah' in that verse mean to make manifest and known, not to explain with surplus details. Example, if Qur'an 5:6 explaining ablution is revealed, only Muhammad knows about it and its ruling at first, others are unaware. Muhammad makes clear and manifest to others, what had been revealed to only him by reading and recording it 4 others. This is what this verse mean. The revealation of God is fully detailed(Qur'an 6:114). Think, if Muhammad did explain Qur'an as traditionalists imply, he would have recorded this explanations along with the Qur'an. Peace! |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Unbias: 1:32pm On Apr 04, 2015 |
true2god: |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by true2god: 3:04pm On Apr 04, 2015 |
Empiree:Hadith contains narrations regarding the deeds of mohammed, aisha, the sahabas and some other important people in Islamic history (during the period of mohammed). It entails their lifestyles which modern\pious muslims must emulate, hence hadith is both a narration and a practical part of Islam. The sunnah is purely devoted to mohammed, his lifestyle and his instructions. I shouldn't be the one to explain your text to you. In Islamic law and jusrispundece, the hadith and the sunnah is more relevant than the quran. Over 90% of sharia laws are from the hadith and the sunnah. It is only an ignorant muslim that will say he is a quranite only. Quran, if read alone, does\will not make any common sense. If you understand arabic and you read and study the quran in that language you will agree with me that reading the quran alone (minus the hadith and the sunnah) will not make any common sense. And it is unfortunate that hadith, unlike the quran, is an exclusive right of mullahs and Islamic teachers. An average muslim on the street have not even seen a single piece of hadith collected hence most muslims are very ignorant of what Islam is all about, aside from the general beliefs and mandatory 5-times daily prayers. |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Ifeann(f): 4:00pm On Apr 04, 2015 |
Empiree: Please mods seun whoever... move this nonsense to the islamic jihadist section 1 Like |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 4:01pm On Apr 04, 2015 |
You trying to teach me now?. What you said up there is what every muslim already learned in nursery school. And you want to teach me?. sorry buddy. You ain't muslim. You only trying to fit in...you trying to belong. As for reading Quran alone not making any sense, that's 100% your opinion. Ijma and Shariah are derived from Quran itself. Shariah is devided into two basically: Rulings/practices that DO NOT CHANGE i:e Tawheed, Salat, Ramadan, Haj, zakat, Qadar. These are derived primarily from Quran. Also Hudood (punishment) directly recommended from Quran do not change. If hadith said opposite, it has to be set aside even if it's in sahih. For instance, punishement for theft, adultery, murder are mentioned in the Quran. Ruling/pracitices that are flexible base on ijma i:e consensus, ashura, figh etc. For instance, your wife may say she doesnt want you to marry another wife...that becomes a matter of ijma (among scholar) with some help from hadith if any. Another example is shaving, pant above the ankles, spiritual bath after intercourse, spiritual bath for dead muslims, what so to say, the way the graves are dug etc. These fall in the category of hadith/sunnah. Now when we say hadith explains Quran doesnt necessarily means it explains every ayah. Quran itself explain itself at large extent...plain and simple. But then, we may want to find out why a verse was revealed. In order to do that, we have to travel literally to hadith for historical context. These are very common. But prophet Muhammad(pbuh) understood i while it's being revealed along with context. And of course, honest muslims will not delibrately quote daef or fabricated hadith to proof anything. I wish i am on my regular pc where i can post a youtube link well explained by Dr. Shabir Ally. true2god: 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 4:09pm On Apr 04, 2015 |
usermane:You have a problem here. If prophet Muhammad(Allah's blessings and peace be upon him and his household)'s explanation of some verses of Quran are to be recorded along with Quran (within Quran) as you implied, then, that's distortion. People would have problem distibguishing word of Allah from his prophet. There would have been mix ups like Bible for instance. Word of Allah is Quran, tafsir must be separated. Very simple Wasalam 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by usermane(m): 5:29pm On Apr 04, 2015 |
Empiree: so, weren't there enough papers for Muhammad to record his explanations separately in Book format before his death, as he recorded the Qur'an? |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 6:19pm On Apr 04, 2015 |
usermane:Interesting...lol. First, this ayah answers your question Al-Araf:157. Second, isn't that what they recorded separately known as hadith/sunnah?. Usermane is getting interesting 1 Like |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 6:48am On Apr 06, 2015 |
Is The Quran Incomplete Without Hadith? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-4jC5iAl8E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBiqdvKlRAw&list=WL&index=206 1 Like 2 Shares |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by true2god: 7:28am On Apr 06, 2015 |
Empiree:You and Dr. Naik are commedians. Dr naik said and I qoute 'the quran itself is complete but you need to read the commentary of the quran to understand it. And hadith is the commentary of the quran'. And the illiterate and gullible audience, who came to watch the showmanship of the charllatan doctor, clapped. If the quran is complete, you dont need to use any commentary to understand it, that means a primary school pupil can read it and comprehend ASAP. But in the issue of the quran, it is not so. The literary work in the quran is zero, you can hardly join a consecutive verse of 10 and make any meaning out of it (you can proove me wrong). For the Doctor to make such a contraditory assertion and you still post the video, i begin to wonder the thought pattern of some people. If the quran is self explanatory, you do not need any external source to explain its text, thats a simple logic. Since the quran is not complete, you need hadith to make-up for where quran is deficient. And even the hadith, like the quran, is grossly contraditory. The hadith used by the sunni is quite different from the ones used by the shia muslims, hence both sects will have contraditory beliefs in some writings of the quran. So spare us the garbage that quran is complete. Tell that to your willing audience this coming friday, who are always waiting for your next lies and dogmas. |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 11:35am On Apr 06, 2015 |
[s] true2god:[/s] 1 Like 2 Shares |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by dalaman: 1:33pm On Apr 06, 2015 |
Empiree: What is the recommended Quranic punishment for gays and adulterers? |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 7:10pm On Apr 06, 2015 |
dalaman:Dont want to be rude but I think this is not the appropriate thread to ask this question. You may want to exploit "Islam section" see if there is any related thread(s). We can discuss there. Thanks a lot ![]() 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 4:07am On Apr 07, 2015 |
Al-Araf 158 Say, [O Muhammad], "O mankind, indeed I am the Messenger of Allah to you all, [from Him] to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. There is no deity except Him; He gives life and causes death." So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered prophet, who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him that you may be guided. |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 4:35am On Apr 08, 2015 |
I am even surprised that he would say prophet Muhammad (SAW) wrote the Quran when Quran plainly and clearly declares that Muhammad can not read nor write. How then prophet Muhammad(Allah's blessings and peace be upon him and his household) wrote Quran if God Himself said otherwise?. Quran says in (Surah Al-Araf 157): Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful. Down the line in the same sura, we found another evidence that Muhammad(SAW) could not have wrote Qur'an 158: Say, [O Muhammad], "O mankind, indeed I am the Messenger of Allah to you all, [from Him] to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. There is no deity except Him; He gives life and causes death." So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him that you may be guided. Another evidence in located in sura Al-`Ankabūt 48 And you did not recite before it any scripture, nor did you inscribe one with your right hand. Otherwise the falsifiers would have had [cause for] doubt. Here is another proof (sura Al-Jumu'a 2) He it is Who sent among the unlettered ones a Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) from among themselves, reciting to them His Verses, purifying them (from the filth of disbelief and polytheism), and teaching them the Book (this Qur'an, Islamic laws and Islamic jurisprudence) and Al-Hikmah (As-Sunnah: legal ways, orders, acts of worship of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم). And verily, they had been before in manifest error; But this individual and the likes claim to follow Qur'an alone but believe differently despite obvious evidences from same Quran. Fact is they do not follow prophet Muhammad. They reject the sunnah. How then they claim proper understanding of islam. The thing is they are bogus. They only sweet talk. However, he did speak the truth in his first paragraph about Bible. All I want from him is to provide evidence that prophet Muhammad (SAW) wrote the Quran. Below is attachment where he claim prophet Muhammad wrote Quran. Please read 2 Likes 2 Shares
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Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 4:50am On Apr 08, 2015 |
^Fact is, Quran was revealed to the prophet by God, he (in turn) dictated to his scribes, they wrote it down in his presence, he reviewed with them. So Qur'an was written down in the lifetime of the prophet by his scribes since he could not read nor write. I need evidence from the fellow who suggested otherwise. If he can not provide any, he's dismissed. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Qu'ranites, Qu'ranists (hadith Rejecters) by Empiree: 3:47am On Aug 05, 2015 |
1 Like |
King Solomon Was A Black Man...biblical Facts. / Pope Francis' Message For World Mission Sunday 2013 / Why are these 16 verses removed from NIV Bible?
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