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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Foreign Affairs / Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? (4507802 Views)
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Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Patchesagain: 11:25am On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz:Later, in September, the Angolans were defeated by the combined force of South Africans and Angolan rebels in the battle of the Lomba River, according to accounts by all sides. With the Angolans in retreat, the South Africans and the Savimbi forces then tried to capture Cuito Cuanavale, the stronghold from which the Government offensive had been mounted. But the Angolans, backed by Cubans and Soviet advisers, put up a spirited defense, and the South Africans decided that the town was not worth the casualties that its capture would require. http://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/12/world/south-africa-s-strategy-on-angola-falls-short-enhancing-cubans-role.html Your own source destroys your entire argument. Where is the major military defeat? Where are the mention of huge South African losses? Quito was an anciliary objective - and it was easyer and less costly to knock out the Cuban/Angolan airfeild there through the use of long range artillery. |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Patchesagain: 11:27am On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz: get me an independent source which didn't originate from the cuban military writers desperately trying to hide their humiliation. |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by EVarn(m): 11:28am On Apr 05, 2015 |
MikeCZAR:oh man,dont you think before you type,or are you just plain ignorant?.let me help you with the chronological order of world powers: USA China UK India Russia{or Germany} Germany{or Russia} France Canada Israel Brazil 1 Like |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Nobody: 11:29am On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz:"get me an independent" I provided 3 sources, go look them up. Secondly now where in your article does it state we lost 11000 men Lastly how do i know your source is independent? |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by lezz(m): 11:30am On Apr 05, 2015 |
Patchesagain:are you implicitly admitting that south Africa lost the war? This is the faintest effort of grace you have displayed thus far here. Or maybe today being Sunday has deaden your usual urge for denial. Because after south Africa was defeated decisively, the Angolan civil war commenced. You don't want to use that as your cover now, do you? |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Patchesagain: 11:34am On Apr 05, 2015 |
EVarn: USA - obviously China - no force projection UK India - no force projection, largely outdated equipment Russia{or Germany} - this low? are you kidding me? Germany{or Russia} - Lol Germany France - this low? Canada Israel Brazil Real rankings: USA Russia/China Uk/France Turkey/Egypt/India/Germany/Spain You need to learn this difference between Hyperpowers (USA), Superpowers (Russia, Uk, France), Great Nations (the rest), Regional Powers ect Also, you need to consider that UK and France are part of the EU - which technically is the second most powerfull military on earth and could potentially challenge the US for Hyperpower status. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_European_Union |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by lezz(m): 11:34am On Apr 05, 2015 |
jln115:and where did I say you lost 11,000 men? You had several years planing the invasion of Angola after the Cubans defeated you in 1975/6. Your sources are inadmissible because ot has already been established that the sandf and cia with help from an American diplomat Chester Crocker attempted to deceive the world by rewriting the events of that war. |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Patchesagain: 11:36am On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz: Again, dipsh1t, where is this decisive defeat you speak of? Your own source confirms we won the battle we set out to fight and then partially succeeded in meeting our secondary objective. Not to mention that the Cubans consented to the terms we had demanded since the 1970's - that we would pull out of Namibia if they would pull out of Angola. |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Patchesagain: 11:37am On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz: Your sources say 10 000 dead and 500 tanks destroyed. By using the source you confirm it. What invasion of Angola? We never had any major plans for such - we still however launched no less than 35 major incursions into Southern Angola to support UNITA and to fight PLAN. And when did the Cubans defeat us? Operation Savannah? |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by lezz(m): 11:39am On Apr 05, 2015 |
Patchesagain:my sources includes the newtork times, an anti Cuba press establishemt and several western media houses who supported south Africa in that war. Give up this fight, It has been established that Chester Crocker wrote the war for some west press. When the cibans first flushed you out in 1975/6, you were still using 1956 British outdated tanks. You upgraded in 1977 and mounted another invasion in Angola and got beaten again. Keep coming. |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Nobody: 11:41am On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz:My 3 Sources take the whole Border war into account! 3 out of your 5 sources only comment about the battle of Cuito-Cuanavale, a battle the SADF in any way decided to bypass in the end and , also i never even argued or brought up any conversation about the battle of Cuito-Cuanavale, i was talking about the Border War as a whole! And nowhere in your other 2 sources those it 1. state we lost 11000 men, 2. state we lost 500 Tanks 3. state that we lost the war. 1 Like |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Patchesagain: 11:42am On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz: Exept as I have just shown your sources contradict what you are saying. The Cubans flushed us out during OP Savannah? Citation needed The SADF never had any intention of invading Angola - we launched incursions to support UNITA and to find and destroy PLAN bases. All 35 of these operations were succesfull - we never lost a battle. |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Nobody: 11:46am On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz:"where did I say you lost 11,000 men?" lezz: |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by EVarn(m): 11:59am On Apr 05, 2015 |
Patchesagain:moffie,when determining a superpower,you dont consider the military might alone,there are many criterion that should be put into perspective,including: Economic strength and growth Population Military strength and force projection and Social development military isnt everything. 1 Like |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Nobody: 12:03pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
agaugust:Firstly the Rand show isnt an airshow or anything even remotely close to one, its a consumer exhibition. "civilian affairs, civilians buy weapons for military." Yes maybe in Nigeria but not SA, firstly the weapons on display at the Rand Show were Rooikats, Olifants. Ratels, Rooivalk, oryx ect ect... And its a 100% Fact that in South Africa ,your average civilian cannot by any military grade hardware! "Civilian government officials visit shows and see weapons on display to buy for their country's military." Why would government officials come to a consumer exhibition to buy weapons? "Yes civilians manufacture weapons" Yes thats true, but they work for a Company which is a entity on its own and ,can only sell to certain clients(thought you said you were an accounting expert?) Thus the fact remains, why would the SANDF display the mokopa at the Rand show if they arent marketing it? 1 Like |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by lezz(m): 12:07pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
jln115:you make me cry ![]() ![]() ![]() 1= you lost over 11,000 troops 2= you lost with over 11,000 troops,CIA mercenaries and with logical and equipment support from American base in Zaire. You mean you can't tell the difference between 1 & 2 ? This is getting funnier. 1 Like |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Nobody: 12:15pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
agaugust: "Cool ! Then show us when SANDF paid for purchase of Mokopa, purchase order, contracts, proof of payment." The SANDF payed for more than half of the R& D for the mokopa, thus it basically purchased, a sh!t load of mokopa's before they even started with production. "The Ministry of Defence in June 2007 said the SA National Defence Force had up to then spent R120 million (in 2007 Rand) on the Mokopa development program, with a further R4.6 million due to be spent in financial year 2007/8. “Denel is expected to spend a further R98.25 million (in 2007 currency) to complete the development of the missile." www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13247:denels-mokopa-pgm-ready-for-market&catid=90:science-a-technology&Itemid=204 The government had to bail out Denel to the tune of Rands 3.5 billion between 2006 and 2008 ." Cool! you proved me wrong! You see i can admit when im wrong, something you should do more often, although it would be on a daily basis!! |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by lezz(m): 12:15pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
Patchesagain:go read my sources. Stop taking us back. The Angolans invited the Cubans twice and twice you got flushed out. In '75/85 and 88. That battle remains one of the fiercest and biggest conventional war in African history. So what do you mean by incursions? |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by lezz(m): 12:19pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
Patchesagain:Are you saying the sandf didn't attempt to invade Cuba? |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Nobody: 12:31pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz:Yes we never attempted to invade Cuba! |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by lezz(m): 12:40pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
jln115:are you saying the sandf didn't invade Angola i meant? |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Nobody: 12:40pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz:Firstly if it wasnt for your poor comprehension skills i might have understood your comment better. I dont want to be a grammar Nazi but im guessing you meant: "you lost over 11000 troops and CIA mercenaries with logistical ,and equipment support from an American base in Zaire." Secondly if you meant what has been said in the above sentence, are you then saying the CIA lost 2000 men?and can you prove this claim with any citations? 1 Like |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Nobody: 12:41pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz:Nope i never said that. |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by lezz(m): 12:53pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
jln115:my poor comprehension CANNOT possibly make you not to understand. You are omitting the preposition"with" in the sentence which is the barrier between your comprehension and confusion . Allow me help you by coming down a bit; I'm going to rephrase now[b]: you lost despite having over 11,000 troops, CIA merceneries and supplies[/b]. Now this isn't an English class by any means. You lost that war big time with outdated tanks and war planes. The Cubans shot you out of the skies. Your military writers and consultant attempted to rewrite another version of that war. South African and some section of American press carried it but the truth still prevailed and Chester Crocker was exposed. Your sources are inadmissible by purpose and content. |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by andrewza: 12:56pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
agaugust:http://www.southafrica.info/business/investing/fordduratorq-020811.htm#.VSEha-BBvqB http://www.southafrica.info/business/investing/fordduratorq-020811.htm#.VSEha-BBvqB http://m.engineeringnews.co.za/article/ford-raises-pe-plant-capacity-as-us-market-beckons-2012-12-12 |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by andrewza: 12:58pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz: Mercenaries? From where. |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by lezz(m): 1:01pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
andrewza:CIA |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by andrewza: 1:04pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz: And your proof? And again from where. 2000 people don't spawn from thin air. |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by lezz(m): 1:08pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
andrewza:Are you just waking up? It's everywhere; CIA backed SANDF troops got a serious beating in Angola in 1988. The Americans where dropping air supplies and men from their base in Zaire. you don't want to take us 7 pages back now, do you? |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Nobody: 1:14pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz:"you lost despite having over 11,000 troops, via merceneries and supplies. Now this isn't an English class by any means." aahhh.......The fact that you left out the words "despite having" kind of changes the meaning of the sentence entirely!!! But any way, we never had more than 5000 troops on the border at any given time,so i dont know were you get your "11,000 troops" from. Secondly there is more evidence of mercenaries fighting in Nigeria today than there was evidence of mercs fighting for the SADF. "You lost that war big time." If losing the war meant:Absolutely obliterating the enemy, and expelling communism out of Southern Africa, then yes we lost.I would also want you to go back to these question: Is Angola a communist state? Is Namibia a communist state? Is South Africa a communist state? "with outdated tanks and war planes" Cool if you want to call the Mirage F1 obsolete, which featured the first ever operational HMS(design by us) in the mid 70s, then yes our war planes were obsolete! "Your sources are inadmissible by purpose and content." Nope!! Your sources are inadmissible by purpose and content. 1 Like |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Nobody: 1:20pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz:HAHAHAHAHAHA dont bull sh.t yourself, everybody knows you dont have evidence of 2000 CIA mercenaries that fought in SA, in fact no one those because its not true! 1 Like |
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by andrewza: 1:23pm On Apr 05, 2015 |
lezz: I am asking where 2000 CIA mercs where killed. We all know the CIA was in Angola. They gave UNITA Stingers but refuesed to give us since we would reverse engineering them. Probably why we kept our captured SAM systems. |
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