AlBaqir:


So "insult", "indecency", among other vices are preferred to you than common sense and decency?
Are you one of those bad eggs' pretenders that claimed to follow Jesus' teachings of peace?



Here's the proper translation of the verse:
"Is it then other than Allah's religion that they seek; and to Him submits whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him shall they be returned"

The simple common sense explanation of the verse goes thus:
"Is it then other than Allah's religion that they seek?
This is a question to those who reject God. And the best answer to them is giving:"...and to Him shall they be returned"

However, His absolute Majesty is giving to them (the unbelievers) to reflect on:
"..., and to Him submits whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly,... "

Willingly or unwillingly every soul will submit to:
* Death, or End of existence

In fact some simple common sense examples are
The Law of Nature designed by Allah which everything MUST submit:
# Eating to ward off hunger
# Drinking to quench thirst
# Sleeping
# Answering the call of nature
# Gravitational force etc etc
All of these has nothing to do with "faith" before you willingly or unwillingly submit to the command of the Almighty

As much as all these are total submission to the will of Allah, In another verse of the Qur'an, the unbelievers are ask: "...who created the heaven and the earth?...who sent forth water from heavens?... Then, Qur'an says they (these unbelievers) will answers "It is Allah!" Then, Qur'an challenges "then, why don't you submit?
That is where intellectual reasoning comes out.

This "submission" then, lead us to the second verse below:



"Let there be no compulsion in Religion, for truth stand out clear from Error..."

When it comes to faith-based issues, it is something that has to do with intellect; and anything of intellect, there is choice in it.

Faith in God and all other characteristics of faith is simply bourne out of choice. There is conviction before faith can be established in the heart.
_______________________

Qur'an challenges:
"Do they not reflect on this Qur'an, or are there locks in their hearts?!"

truthman2012:


Your interpretation is made out of your own personal assumption to suit your purpose. In fact this your translation does not change the meaning.

''Is it then other than Allah's RELIGION that they seek; and to Him submits whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him shall they be returned" This translation is by Shakir.

Look at translation by Yusuf Ali:

Yusufali 3:83 ] Do they seek for
other than THE RELIGION of Allah?-
while all creatures in the heavens
and on earth have, willing or
unwilling, BOWED to His Will
(Accepted Islam), and to Him shall
they all be brought back. Note whe words ''Accepted Islam''.

''....and to Him submits whatsoever is in the heaven and the EARTH WILLINGLY or UNWILLINGLY'' This verse is talking about RELIGION of ISLAM not submission at DEATH as you wrongly want me to take. There is noway you can twist the meaning of the RELIGION to mean death in that verse. How do you interprete 'Allah's religion' on EARTH to mean submission at DEATH? Even Yusuf Ali could not do so. Take your lying easy na! UNWILLINGLY means by COMPULSION. It is a surprise that despite your claimed sense you still could not give proper meaning to a simple English statement or you are trying so hard to deceive yourself and people in your condition.

I know islam permits lying where it is needed to do so but your lie here is too blatant. Take it easy o!

The truth remains allah once say there is no COMPULSION in his religion but as usual, he changed his statement by saying people submit to his religion by COMPULSION. What an unstable allah.

truthman2012:


Your interpretation is made out of your own personal assumption to suit your purpose. In fact this your translation does not change the meaning.

''Is it then other than Allah's RELIGION that they seek; and to Him submits whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him shall they be returned" This translation is by Shakir.

Look at translation by Yusuf Ali:

Yusufali 3:83 ] Do they seek for
other than THE RELIGION of Allah?-
while all creatures in the heavens
and on earth have, willing or
unwilling, BOWED to His Will
(Accepted Islam), and to Him shall
they all be brought back. Note whe words ''Accepted Islam''.

''....and to Him submits whatsoever is in the heaven and the EARTH WILLINGLY or UNWILLINGLY'' This verse is talking about RELIGION of ISLAM not submission at DEATH as you wrongly want me to take. There is noway you can twist the meaning of the RELIGION to mean death in that verse. How do you interprete 'Allah's religion' on EARTH to mean submission at DEATH? Even Yusuf Ali could not do so. Take your lying easy na! UNWILLINGLY means by COMPULSION. It is a surprise that despite your claimed sense you still could not give proper meaning to a simple English statement or you are trying so hard to deceive yourself and people in your condition.

I know islam permits lying where it is needed to do so but your lie here is too blatant. Take it easy o!

The truth remains allah once say there is no COMPULSION in his religion but as usual, he changed his statement by saying people submit to his religion by COMPULSION. What an unstable allah.

AlBaqir:


It is very unfortunate that you failed woefully to grab simple common sense explanation of this beautiful verse. This is what happens when one reads to criticise and never to understands.

First, I never ever interpret "Religion" to means "Death or other laws of nature" as those occurences under the control of Allah that man MUST submits willingly or unwillingly. My simple interpretations is in the context of "...and to Him submits whatever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly".

Now, come to think of it bro, Angels, sun, moon, stars are some of the denizens of the heavens which this beautiful verse says "they submit willingly or unwillingly". Are we talking of them accepting Islam here?

On earth, we have animals, trees, seas and oceans, rivers and streams of various kinds, wind (cool breeze and verocious thunardoes), ALL these submit willingly or unwillingly to the command of Allah. Are we talking of them here accepting Islam?

This phrase "...and to Him submits whatever is in the heavens and the earth willingly or unwillingly" is too comprehensive for you to antagonistically used it to mean God coerce unbelievers as against another verse which says there is no force in Religion.

Second, the ending clause of the verse "... and to Him they will return" collapse your false argument of coercion. This ending note suggest freedom of choice whether you accept faith or reject it when you knew that All things submits to God, unto Him is your return.

Third, as per Abdullah Yusuf Ali, he was one the many translators and interpreters. His thoughts are not bind on any muslim. However the word use in the verse is "Aslam" meaning "to submit" which is also the same word as "Islam". This is the reason why some scholars reasons that Everything created profess "Islam" by virtue of the fact that they "submit" willingly or unwillingly. I have highlighted this already.

truthman2012:


Your explanation or interpretation remains unacceptable. Let your conscience be your judge.

''Are they seeking a RELIGION other than Allah's'' ? This is referring to humans not stars, animal or sea as these can not SEEK any religion.

Let me ask you: Do plants, animal, sea, star etc accept islam? Do they posses the WILL to accept or reject islam? Do they have any choice to have accepted islam unwillingly? I tell you the truth, your interpretation is an error.

Your attempt to defend allah as not forcing people fails woefully. As I said earlier, the evidences against allah being unstable are overwhelming. Apart from Quran 3:83 in contention, look at these evidences of allah forcing people to islam after he had said there is no compulsion in religion. I promise you I will be bringing them as we proceed:

Qur'an (8:39) - “And fight them
until there is no more Fitnah
(disbelief and polytheism: i.e.
worshipping others besides Allah)
and the religion (worship) will all
be for Allah Alone [in the whole
of the world ]. But if they cease
(worshipping others besides
Allah), then certainly, Allah is
All-Seer of what they do.”

Fight the people till there is no other religion apart from islam after saying there is no compulsion in religion. How reliable is allah's word? This is not the character of the true God. The Devil is a liar.

Next!

malvisguy212:
God bless you. This muslims can lie very much, plants have the FREEWILL to chose? What happened if they(plants) do not submits to Allah WILL? Killed them? Do plants possessed emotions? The guy is a very good liar.

truthman2012:


Thank you my brother. Allah permitting muslims to lie where needed knows what he was doing. It takes lying to defend lies.

My son and his wife came home and he said he used to follow threads on religion section of nairaland. He also talked about your posts, mine and those of the muslims. He said he visits the section everyday. Why am I saying this? My joy is that he cannot be deceived by islamic lies. He said from what he has been reading, muslims would have seen the truth but unfortunately, the spirit of islam has blindfolded them.

Honestly, I used to wonder myself why it is so difficult for muslims to see the falsehood of islam. May God in His mercies liberate them.

Rilwayne001:
^^

AlBaqir should please ignore these guys.
Any right thinking reader of your reply will see how slow they are..Smh

tonychristopher:
JESUS DIED FOR OUR MORTAL SIN, AND DEFEATED DEATH
#


WE HAVE VENIEAL AND MORTAL SIN

udatso:


Do you even know the implication of what you just said? Your jesus who is according to you God defeating death.!! Isn't he All powerful. Who causes death?

Oh my God!

You will always shoot yourself in the leg, and at the end of the day, its either you run away with tails between your legs or you copy and paste your nonsense as usual.

I have determine not to dignify senseless posts made by you and your cohorts, but not always, hence, you and your slow friends think you make an iota of sense when actually you made non.

malvisguy212:
is there any scientific evidence that say plants have an emotion?
In fact even stars and moon, do this things have emotion?

Maby is another quranic blunder in science. Satan will be very proud of you guys.

Rilwayne001:
^^

AlBaqir should please ignore these guys.
Any right thinking reader of your reply will see how slow they are..Smh

truthman2012:


Each time you muslims get to where you don't know what to say next, you escape by ignoring. How long will you continue to deceive yourselves?

Do you bother to answer those questions in the OP since your master was unable to attempt any?

Why are you even derailing the thread? I am sure that your son can't be as ***** as you've been displaying here.

#AgbaJatiJati

Rilwayne001:
Oh my God!

You will always shoot yourself in the leg, and at the end of the day, its either you run away with tails between your legs or you copy and paste your nonsense as usual.

I have determine not to dignify senseless posts made by you and your cohorts, but not always, hence, you and your slow friends think you make an iota of sense when actually you made non.



[b] And now out of ignorance you ask for scientific evidence in place of a spiritiual matter, but when our atheist friends ask for scientific evidence that God exist, you will resort and call the carnal minded belligeret peeps.

tonychristopher:


Jesus is not God

malvisguy212:
you keep on exposing your self, does this statement indicate the plant are in spiritual realm?

Rilwayne001:
Oh my God!

You will always shoot yourself in the leg, and at the end of the day, its either you run away with tails between your legs or you copy and paste your nonsense as usual.

I have determine not to dignify senseless posts made by you and your cohorts, but not always, hence, you and your slow friends think you make an iota of sense when actually you made non.



[b] And now out of ignorance you ask for scientific evidence in place of a spiritiual matter, but when our atheist friends ask for scientific evidence that God exist, you will resort and call the carnal minded belligeret peeps.

Now malviguy212, lets check very few of the scientific blunder of the bible. Does science prove the following fairytales and blunder of the bible?

1) According to revelation 9vs1 " The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss."
how is that possible when stars are bigger than earth? Does star have emotion to have been given a key? **as you foolishly ask up there

2) Judges 9:7-16 , trees voted for their own King. Judges 9:8 "The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them."

3) Leviticus 11:6 "The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you." Rabbits, are lagomorphs, not ruminants; they do not chew the cud. Prove me wrong

4) According to (1 Samuel 2:8, Job 9:6, Job 38:4, Isaiah 11:12, Revelation 7:1, Job 38:13, Jeremiah 16:19, Daniel 4:11, Psalm 93:1-3, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, 1 Chronicles 16:30, Matthew 4:8 ) The earth is flat, has four corners, is standing on pillars that prevent it from shaking, and is immovable. Can you prove this scientifically?

The above are just 4 of thousands of blunder in the bible. [/b]



Who control the world?


www.nairaland.com/attachments/1908072_by6vmiecqaalzrn_jpeg_jpeg9f0e32cb21036cad88da896a775014f3

Rilwayne001:
Oh my God!

You will always shoot yourself in the leg, and at the end of the day, its either you run away with tails between your legs or you copy and paste your nonsense as usual.

I have determine not to dignify senseless posts made by you and your cohorts, but not always, hence, you and your slow friends think you make an iota of sense when actually you made non.



[b] And now out of ignorance you ask for scientific evidence in place of a spiritiual matter, but when our atheist friends ask for scientific evidence that God exist, you will resort and call the carnal minded belligeret peeps.

Now malviguy212, lets check very few of the scientific blunder of the bible. Does science prove the following fairytales and blunder of the bible?

1) According to revelation 9vs1 " The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss."
how is that possible when stars are bigger than earth? Does star have emotion to have been given a key? **as you foolishly ask up there

2) Judges 9:7-16 , trees voted for their own King. Judges 9:8 "The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them."

3) Leviticus 11:6 "The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you." Rabbits, are lagomorphs, not ruminants; they do not chew the cud. Prove me wrong

4) According to (1 Samuel 2:8, Job 9:6, Job 38:4, Isaiah 11:12, Revelation 7:1, Job 38:13, Jeremiah 16:19, Daniel 4:11, Psalm 93:1-3, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, 1 Chronicles 16:30, Matthew 4:8 ) The earth is flat, has four corners, is standing on pillars that prevent it from shaking, and is immovable. Can you prove this scientifically?

The above are just 4 of thousands of blunder in the bible. [/b]



Who control the world?


www.nairaland.com/attachments/1908072_by6vmiecqaalzrn_jpeg_jpeg9f0e32cb21036cad88da896a775014f3

Rilwayne001:




Do you bother to answer those questions in the OP since your master was unable to attempt any?

Why are you even derailing the thread? I am sure that your son can't be as ***** as you've been displaying here.

#AgbaJatiJati

truthman2012:

You lack good understanding of the bible. The Book of Revelation is a vision. In vision, a lot of figurative expression are made. You will see many of such in the Book of Daniel.
According to revelation 9vs1 " The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss."
The star here represents a spirit-being who was given the key to open the bottomless pit
Judges 9:7-16 , trees voted for their own King. Judges 9:8 "The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them."
This is a metaphor. When it said that ''the pot calling kettle black'', does a pot have mouth to speak? Was the speaker in Judges insane not to know a tree is not human to anoint a king? That should show you it was not a physical tree.

The onus of proof is on you here that a rabbit doesn't chew the cud:

Leave this to the scientists as you are not an authority in science to have the knowledge to disprove. There are people who still believe the earth is flat. You can believe what you want. See: http://www.iflscience.com/space/there-are-still-people-who-believe-earth-flat-usa

truthman2012:


Which thread? The thread you are derailing yourself by resorting to science in the bible. Smh!

truthman2012:


[s]Your explanation or interpretation remains unacceptable. Let your conscience be your judge.[/s]

''Are they seeking a RELIGION other than Allah's'' ? This is referring to humans not stars, animal or sea as these can not SEEK any religion.

truthman2012:


Let me ask you: Do plants, animal, sea, star etc accept islam? Do they posses the WILL to accept or reject islam? Do they have any choice to have accepted islam unwillingly? I tell you the truth, your interpretation is an error.

Your attempt to defend allah as not forcing people fails woefully. As I said earlier, the evidences against allah being unstable are overwhelming.

truthman2012:

Apart from Quran 3:83 in contention, look at these evidences of allah forcing people to islam after he had said there is no compulsion in religion. I promise you I will be bringing them as we proceed:

Qur'an (8:39) - “And fight them
until there is no more Fitnah
[s](disbelief and polytheism: i.e.
worshipping others besides Allah)[/s]
and the religion (worship) will all
be for Allah Alone [in the whole
of the world ]. But if they cease
(worshipping others besides
Allah), then certainly, Allah is
All-Seer of what they do.”

[ Shakir 8:39 ] And fight with them
until there is no more persecution
and religion should be only for
Allah; but if they desist, then
surely Allah sees what they do.


[s]Fight the people till there is no other religion apart from islam after saying there is no compulsion in religion. How reliable is allah's word? This is not the character of the true God. The Devil is a liar.

Next![/s]

Rilwayne001:
^^

AlBaqir should please ignore these guys.
Any right thinking reader of your reply will see how slow they are..Smh

The very fact that sin remains and flourishes in the world, 2000+ years after Christ supposedly "conquered" sin on the cross, is more than enough for the non-deluded to see that the judicial execution of that one man is perfectly meaningless in terms of redeeming the spiritual state of mankind as a race.

1. Why can God be unjust when he had sent many prophets to preach repentance? How can countless men inherit a sin they have never committed? And if sin means the breaking of God’s law (according to dictionary), which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called forbidden tree?.

2. If God’s anger was kindled against Adam and Eve for their disobedience, could the anger persisted on to the generation of Adam and Eve. Remember this God’s action
psalm 30v5: for his anger endureth but a moment and his favour is for a life time.

3. From whence, then, could arise the solitary and strange conceit that the Almighty, who had millions of worlds equally dependent on his protection, should quit the care of all the rest, and come to die in our world, because, they say, one man and one woman had eaten an apple?

4. "Christian guy rapes innocent Muslim girl to death. Muslim girl goes to hell because she didn't believe Jesus is the son of God. Christian guy ask for forgiveness. Makes heaven." whats your take on this incident?

5. Simply put, it is either men have not inherited any sins or that bible has told lie when it says as seen above that John, Daniel, Zechariah and his wife, Samuel, Joseph were all righteous men! Or are a sinners called righteous one in the bible?

AlBaqir:


Really I know by the time they reach the zenith of their ignorance, and thresold of their antagonism, when objective minds would have seen their lapses; then I will rather continue exposing them of their feeble uderstanding

truthman2012:


Each time you muslims get to where you don't know what to say next, you escape by ignoring. How long will you continue to deceive yourselves?

Empiree:
Listen man, later explanation provided by albaqir was actually the standard tafsir of the verse in question.

Now, we know you guys can never be satisfied with anything islamic. Here is the thing though, it doesnt matter whether you are comfortable with his explanation or not, whether you understand it or not. What matters is he gave you some detail tafsir of the verse. That's just it. Anything else you said was irrelevant.

truthman2012:


The bone of contention is whether or not allah is stable. In many verses of the quran, he keeps changing his words, why?

He said there is no COMPULSION in RELIGION and yet order the muslims to fight people till there is no other religion than islam. How difficult is that for you muslim guys to understand? Na wa o!

There are many other verses where allah would say something now and change his mind later. Is that a good attribute of the true God? Repent and follow Jesus who would not deceive you by changing his word to suit any situation. Thank you.

truthman2012:


So you are truly escaping? I know next time you will be careful trying to debunk my posts. Bye.