kcjazz:
Are "flexible energy" sources healthier? Have you considered lost man power hours due to illness? Do you also know that respiratory illnesses are one of the highest in Nigeria? The costs cannot be justified in any way for generators. Alternative like PHCN are cheaper.

If the cost of doing business is high factories will close. At night I need security lights on, I only have a 15kva generator. I don't have the grid light. At low productivity, now I run my generator overnight to keep the fridge on and for security. It burns fuel irrespective of the capacity. Pollutes the environment as well.

Phcn and their likes all over the world are monopolies because of the infrastructure costs, prices come down based on scale. The only way generators can be cheaper is if they are all connected to the grid and excess capacities shared among consumers. That is not possible.

Companies should consider alternative sources like solar to cut costs

So right,

esere826:


grow up
Factories relocate or close only if they are not making profits or if some other environment is more conducive for business
Does Shell complain about electricity?


the aim of my article is simply to do away with simplistic reasoning like yours

Perhaps simpler is better. Your attempt to discredit a generally held belief by smuggling into the discourse a far-fetched premise of cost of running 'flexible' power is intellectually dishonest. Why would 'inflexible' power be more expensive per unit of scale? It is an economic aberration!

The question we should answer is, 'would fixing power create more employment given the status quo?' Well, the answer is 'yes'!

Nobody is saying the use of a resource like power could not be optimised with better policies, so what exactly is the point you are making!

Projecting a veneer of sophistication with esoteric economic assumptions is practically useless! People on the streets are much smarter than your condescending attitude suggests.

Kindest regards

omenka:
It would be foolhardy for Government to deregulate (privatise) and then regulate prices as well. What I believe is, with sincerity, the success in the telecoms sector can be replicated in the power sector. As long as there isn't monopoly, competition would naturally take care of the cost of services provided.

There is no way one can argue for running businesses on generators in preference to sustenance of businesses on public power supply.

I do like your approach
However do consider that telecoms is not same as electricity generation and distribution
whereas the consumer can easily switch from one telecom provider to the next thus sort of minimizing provider monopoly
its not same for electricity per se.
You're not going say, "hey guys switch me from company x power supplier to company y"
it does not work like that unfortunately because of the infrastructure that facilitates central power distribution

Volksfuhrer:


Perhaps simpler is better. Your attempt to discredit a generally held belief by smuggling into the discourse a far-fetched premise of cost of running 'flexible' power is intellectually dishonest. Why would 'inflexible' power be more expensive per unit of scale? It is an economic aberration!

The question we should answer is, 'would fixing power create more employment given the status quo?' Well, the answer is 'yes'!

Nobody is saying the use of a resource like power could not be optimised with better policies, so what exactly is the point you are making!

Projecting a veneer of sophistication with esoteric economic assumptions is practically useless! People on the streets are much smarter than your condescending attitude suggests.

Kindest regards

lol
with such words bolded above, ur apparently more into emotive Nigerian political kinds of discussions

u're making some point I would have tackled, but you're don't appear suitable to sharing objective ideas with

Pavore9:


l live in Nairobi and have 24hrs access to electricity and my monthly electricity bill is not even up yo N1,000 but l know how high my productivity have been. My brother in Lagos is into production and his edge is that his machines do not requires electricity though manual even a 7 year old can operate it. For every of the machine he imports from the U.S for just N80,000 (which is the cost of some people's phone) he employs 2 Nigerians and his finished products he exports to Kenya at a shipping cost of N740 per kilo, l feel happy to see that what he produces in Lagos is highly regarded here in Kenya!

We also have to look into energy source, l have understudied many farms here in Kenya that generate some of the power they use in the farms from waste generated from the farms thus reducing cost of production.

great
Some great and valid points you've made (especially with regard to alternative energy sources....ur strike me as a proper business minded person) but quite many which can push me off what I aim to pass across.
for example, I could ask who provides this central electric power in Kenya, how long it has been provided by the provider, and if there is any direct intervention by the government on cost of this power.

However, quick one.
what is the unemployment rate in Kenya? just curious

esere826:

Children shouldn't speak when elders speak you know

hehehe, see ignoramus forming knowledge or idea. your understanding is limited, that you can open a thread of this nature tells a lot about your shallow thought pattern

kcjazz:
Are "flexible energy" sources healthier? Have you considered lost man power hours due to illness? Do you also know that respiratory illnesses are one of the highest in Nigeria? The costs cannot be justified in any way for generators. Alternative like PHCN are cheaper.

If the cost of doing business is high factories will close. At night I need security lights on, I only have a 15kva generator. I don't have the grid light. At low productivity, now I run my generator overnight to keep the fridge on and for security. It burns fuel irrespective of the capacity. Pollutes the environment as well.

Phcn and their likes all over the world are monopolies because of the infrastructure costs, prices come down based on scale. The only way generators can be cheaper is if they are all connected to the grid and excess capacities shared among consumers. That is not possible.

Companies should consider alternative sources like solar to cut costs

good argument ..but
Factories don't close if the cost of doing business is high
they close if they are not competitive.

Competiveness in turn is dependent on many factors including its cost relative to profit and revenue, and the environment the business competes in

If a business spends 1 billion on energy and makes 1 trillion profit, it wont close shop easily except the environment forces it to

esere826:

good argument ..but
Factories don't close if the cost of doing business is high
they close if they are not competitive.

Competiveness in turn is dependent on many factors including its cost relative to profit and revenue, and the environment the business competes in

If a business spends 1 billion on energy and makes 1 trillion profit, it wont close shop easily except the environment forces it to

see the example of naievity, I talked about. if d cost of doing business is high, how well can the factory stay competitive? in no time, whatever being produced in house will be replaced via demand by import substitutes, the coy does not stay afloat, and it sacks its workers.

emiye:
see the example of naievity, I talked about. if d cost of doing business is high, how well can the factory stay competitive? in no time, whatever being produced in house will be replaced via demand by import substitutes, the coy does not stay afloat, and it sacks its workers.

when folks bring ideas to the table you counter them with greater or equal ideas not insults
that's what makes you a homo sapien, fit for interacting with civilized society and not a haphazard concocted product of a broken system

get it?

omenka:
your argument is terribly flawed. You are just quoting arbitrary figures to support your stand. If you say the bolded, then one could easily assume the reverse of course, thereby rendering your point useless.

Now, look at this:

For the regular "I pass my neighbor" generator, a full tank which is about 5 litres would cost N450 (assuming an average cost of N90 per litre). A full tank runs for 7hours on average. If it is operated for 24 hours, it means one would require about 15 litres, bringing the cost of running it for that long to N6,750!! Multiply this by 30 and you get a whooping N202,500!!

If one were to slash this figure in half to reflect that these businesses run on an average of 12hours a day, you'd still get N101,250!

Now, compare that to what is charged on average by electricity regulators for such small businesses that run on such generators and you'd see what a colossal loss of income and savings businesses suffer. These are monies that could be reinvested into expansion of businesses which then translates into hiring more hands (employment).

Your argument really doesn't hold water.

NA WA O
WHICH SCHOOL YOU GO
YOU BETTER GO ASK FOR REFUND
15 TIMES 90= A LITTLE UNDER 1500 NAIRA
AND YES IT IS STILL EXPENSIVE

esere826:


I do like your approach
However do consider that telecoms is not same as electricity generation and distribution
whereas the consumer can easily switch from one telecom provider to the next thus sort of minimizing provider monopoly
its not same for electricity per se.
You're not going say, "hey guys switch me from company x power supplier to company y"
it does not work like that unfortunately because of the infrastructure that facilitates central power distribution

And who says you can't switch?? The gencos and transcos would have their dedicated infrastructures (transformers and power lines) just as you have the various telecoms service providers with their respective masts and fibre optic cables. Then they also would have their various metre cards (which are sim cards for telecoms). The metres would be the equivalent of phones (one can switch the cards just as one can switch sims) and you can purchase units from whichever service provider you desire just as we purchase recharge cards. You can paint the rest of the picture from there

There you have it. It is not rocket science. That is deregulation for you.

Volksfuhrer:


Projecting a veneer of sophistication with esoteric economic assumptions is practically useless! People on the streets are much smarter than your condescending attitude suggests.

Kindest regards

you nailed it! Its a good thing to combine being booksmart with being streetsmart....It gives your sophistication that flavour.
But throwing mere words up and down with no regard to reality is just an academic exercise...........in futility.
He went as far as comparing Nigeria with Greece. Even with the unemployment problem in Greece.....We still have it worse here...He should xheck the statistics.
I will eat my hat if he can cite a country thats industrialized on epileptic power supply.

esere826:

Push this further

So if the central electricity is supplied by Dangote et al and it costs almost as much as your generator, would you still use it to preserve your meat?
would you then employ workers?

DEMAND AND SUPPLY PEOPLE WILL FORCE GARRI TO FIND LEVEL IF NOT GARRI WOULD BE SOLD 1MILLION PER KONGO.PLEASE BE REALISTIC

esere826:

HYDRO AND THERMAL POWER WWILL ALWAYS BE CHEAPER THAN GENERATOR POWER

Tayeni:
let me get you right before i reply appropriately....
Are u implying that its cheaper to run a generator than to pay ur electricity bills?.
i suspect you are a student therefore not yet responsible for your bills
or you have never run a business before
or u are not resident in Nigeria
or simply being mischievious....

NO NO LET THE MAN SPEAK
IF GOVT WER TO REALISE THAT NIGERIANS ARE THE OWNERS OF THE OYEL AND STOPPED SUBSIDY AND DISTRIBUTED(FREE FUEL TO NIGERIANS THEN HIS THEORY COULD WORK)
WE ALL SIMPLY RUN ON GEN

esere826:

Not many of the ones responding so far unfortunately -sound no


Nope power does not necessarily take care of unemployment
There are more developed countries than ours that have power but also suffer unemployment issues e;g Greece

Remember that the cost of Power relative to earnings can also be a factor



good

Stable electricity gears up productivity = Reduced cost of production = Increased cash flow = Expansion = More hiring to support and sustain expansion = Increased government tax base = Increased government spending on infrastructures/Construction and services = More government employment = More construction workers, more food vendors, more plumbers, more bricklayers, more painters and so on.


This is pretty much common sense..

omenka:
And who says you can't switch?? The gencos and transcos would have their dedicated infrastructures (transformers and power lines) just as you have the various telecoms service providers with their respective masts and fibre optic cables. Then they also would have their various metre cards (which are sim cards for telecoms). The metres would be the equivalent of phones (one can switch the cards just as one can switch sims) and you can purchase units from whichever service provider you desire just as we purchase recharge cards. You can paint the rest of the picture from there

There you have it. It is not rocket science. That is deregulation for you.

uhmmm
interesting. If I get you correctly
I'm not aware that each household would have multiple transmission wires from different providers running into the same meter from which the users card of choice can be programmed to select the lines that should be used.

Is this a statement of fact or a proposal?

Tayeni:
Nwanna.....clear the air....is your company's bill estimated or read?.
is the 70,000 naira a month's bill or accumulation of past debt?

what is the consumption rate of your company( you cant tell me a coy thats into iron smelting is expected to b billed the same as a service coy whose electricity need is just for lighting and a few appliances.)
i agree that bills can be outrageous...infact most of the time they are...but i will pick constant power supply at the current rate than run my business on generators any day any time.....ask any small or medium scale manufacturer.....

GUUY IF THEM BILL YOU THE WAY THEM DE BILL PEOPLE FOR BWARI WEN NO GET METER YOUR BUSINESS GO PACK UP SHARP SHARP
PPL ARE PAYING 8K FOR ALMOST NO LIGHT WHEN THEY SHOULDNT PAY MORE THAN 2K IF THEY WERE METERED
LOT OF EXPLOITATION GOING ON

esere826:


Did you read my piece?
If you did, you would have noted my emphasis on trashing the assumption that centrally generated power always equates to cheap source of power

ECONOMY OF SCALE WILL BRING DOWN PRICE,ALWAYS(ALMOST ALWAYS TILL DIMINISHING RETURNS SETS IN)
OTHERWISE PPL WILL SIMPLY USE THEIR GENERATORS(ALTERNATIVE)
THE MARKET IS THE ULTIMATE CHECK AND BALANCE EVEN WITH THIS OUR MONOPOLISING EXPLOITATIVE GOVT(DANGOTE 2000NAIRA CEMENT AGAINST WORL 600NAIRA) WHY ARE OUR SMUGGLERS DULLING

esere826:


Good debate
I probably need to set the context but that might be too long and complex.

In summary, I'm saying something like this:
If you guys say to the government "just give us power and don't worry about jobs"
and then the government does get private monopolistic investors/coys in that do provide constant power but at astronomical prices plus taxes
you'll end up in almost the same situation as with the cost of your personal power generation.

And then everyone gets upset with the government

So, what really matters is deliberate policies and actions to achieve specific and inter related results
A rough example is that the government could have a guidance that the price of energy should ordinarily not be more than 20% of the average earning power of Nigerians

COMPETITION WILL EVENTUALLY FORCE PRICES DOWN

mikolo80:
NA WA O
WHICH SCHOOL YOU GO
YOU BETTER GO ASK FOR REFUND
15 TIMES 90= A LITTLE UNDER 1500 NAIRA
AND YES IT IS STILL EXPENSIVE

See as you mumu reach??

If N450 = full tank (5 litres) and you need to run the full tank 3 times (15 litres) to cover 24 hours (since 5 litres takes you 7 hours [even at that you still arrive at 21 hours] ). It then means you would need 450*15 naira to run the gen for a whole day. That gives you N6,750.

Oya, you go ask for a refund from whatever school you attended.

emiye:
see the example of naievity, I talked about. if d cost of doing business is high, how well can the factory stay competitive? in no time, whatever being produced in house will be replaced via demand by import substitutes, the coy does not stay afloat, and it sacks its workers.

That is why SENSIBLE countries impose stiff tariff regimes to discourage imports thus enhancing the national competitive environment to grow the industries, innovation, revenue and employment.
China, India, South Korea etc did it.

Any individual/society who cannot SACRIFICE meaningfully cannot develop.
QED!!!

Abi na where the cheap imports want lead us to

esere826:


grow up
Factories relocate or close only if they are not making profits or if some other environment is more conducive for business
Does Shell complain about electricity?


the aim of my article is simply to do away with simplistic reasoning like yours

SHELL CAN AFFORD GAS TURBINES(BIG ASSS ONES)
IF MANUFACTURERS ASSOCIATION OF NIGERIA WEREN'T MADE UP OF OLD FARRTS THEY'D PULL TOGETHER AND GET BANKS AND STOCK MARKET TO FUND 100-1000 MW OFF GRID INDUSTRIAL PARKS(25MW EVEN) AROUND VIABLE INDUSTRIAL CLUSTERS(ABA,LAGOS,OGUN,IBADAN,KANO,KADUNA)

esere826:


when folks bring ideas to the table you counter them with greater or equal ideas not insults
that's what makes you a homo sapien, fit for interacting with civilized society and not a haphazard concocted product of a broken system

get it?

dont get worked up dude, i only feel your thread theme is a naive opinion, no one knows everything, we all have our areas of naievity, i pointed that out to you, but you tried going the condescending away, for that you should be ashamed of yourself.

In clear terms, there are several factors contributing to the high cost of doing business in Nigeria, shortage of power supply sits atop of it, other factors are multiple taxation, regulatory infractions, e.t.c, there is a direct linkage between high Cost of doing business and reduced competitiveness. Competition in manufacturing is not only internal(within the country), it is also external (outside the country), that is why there are several importers of products beseiging china, e.t.c All over the world SMEs dictate the pace of the economy and usually the largest provider of employment, they do not usually start with high profit margins, when their supposed small profit margins are eroded through high cost of production due to power supply costs, they sometimes end up running at a loss and closing up in a very short time. Many artisans abandon their productive work due to poor power supply and become motorcycle riders. Stable power supply reduces cost of business, and encourages more SMEs and multinationals, luckily cheap labour abound. There is a reason American companies prefer moving factories in to china instead of staying in America, they want to tinker and reduce cost of doing business which cheap labour in china boosters.

mikolo80:
DEMAND AND SUPPLY PEOPLE WILL FORCE GARRI TO FIND LEVEL IF NOT GARRI WOULD BE SOLD 1MILLION PER KONGO.PLEASE BE REALISTIC

One of NairaLand rules (nos 11) is do not write in all CAPS

Demand and supply and its effect on cost works better in a free market
Unfortunately, it is difficult for some industries to fall neatly and un-nurged into this model. Central water generation for example, and Central power generation (although omenka raised an idea on this which I am curios to see how it works)

I.m being realistic when I say government has a role to play in devising strategies and policies that should keep cost of energy source low while ensuring that the organisations providing them are able to make good profit margins.

i'm also being very realistic when I say that government should assiduously work towards consciously creating the enabling environment for job creation

omenka:
See as you mumu reach??

If N450 = full tank (5 litres) and you need to run the full tank 3 times (15 litres) to cover 24 hours (since 5 litres takes you 7 hours [even at that you still arrive at 21 hours] ). It then means you would need 450*15 naira to run the gen for a whole day. That gives you N6,750.

Oya, you go ask for a refund from whatever school you attended.

24HRS DIVIDED BY 7= 3.SOMETHING
3.SOMETHING TIMES 450 IS......
PLS APOLOGISE IF YOU HAVE ANY HONOUR ONCE YOU'VE WORKED THAT OUT
NO WODER MY MUMSIE INSITED ON ME SHOWING THE WORKINGS INSTEAD OF WURUWUR TO THE ANSWER

esere826:

I think you and I are chiming now

Environmental and noise pollution aside, you can see that electricity is electricity and the source has little or nothing to do with job creation.
One of the crucial factors is the cost of the source electricity relative to one's or a company's income/revenue.

In essence, job creation is a science on its own that needs the government to have a purposeful strategy
folks screaming to the govt: "give us electricity and don't worry about jobs" are being too simplistic on how things work

COST SCHMOST
ALL THESE YOUR SEMANTICS
YOU KNOW WHAT NIGERIANS MEAN WHEN THEY SAY THEY WANT ELECTICITY(POWER/LIGHT/NEPA/PHCN)
ELECTRICITY AT TODAYS CHEAPER(LARGE SCALE WHOLESALE COMPETITIVE ) PRICE

esere826:

uhmmm
interesting. If I get you correctly
I'm not aware that each household would have multiple transmission wires from different providers running into the same meter from which the users card of choice can be programmed to select the lines that should be used.

Is this a statement of fact or a proposal?

Something the equivalent of "co-location" in the telecoms can be used to eliminate the cumbersome nature of this. Once the will is there, it can be done. The technology is readily available.

mikolo80:

SHELL CAN AFFORD GAS TURBINES(BIG ASSS ONES)
IF MANUFACTURERS ASSOCIATION OF NIGERIA WEREN'T MADE UP OF OLD FARRTS THEY'D PULL TOGETHER AND GET BANKS AND STOCK MARKET TO FUND 100-1000 MW OFF GRID INDUSTRIAL PARKS(25MW EVEN) AROUND VIABLE INDUSTRIAL CLUSTERS(ABA,LAGOS,OGUN,IBADAN,KANO,KADUNA)

Great
ah,.....thank God say intelligent people still dey here ooo
Now, this is what is called thinking out of the box, not just sitting around bottles of beer and rubbing ones belli then mouthing "Give us power and forget job creation we are special and can cope on our own"

This brings us back to the beauty of ensuring or proposing that government policies are purposefully designed to encouraging such actions
and reducing environmental barriers

omenka:
Something the equivalent of "co-location" in the telecoms can be used to eliminate the cumbersome nature of this. Once the will is there, it can be done. The technology is readily available.

So, I guess this is a suggestion from you (not what is presently in the works)
am I correct?

esere826:


One of NairaLand rules (nos 11) is do not write in all CAPS

Demand and supply and its effect on cost works better in a free market
Unfortunately, it is difficult for some industries to fall neatly and un-nurged into this model. Central water generation for example, and Central power generation (although omenka raised an idea on this which I am curios to see how it works)

I.m being realistic when I say government has a role to play in devising strategies and policies that should keep cost of energy source low while ensuring that the organisations providing them are able to make good profit margins.

i'm also being very realistic when I say that government should assiduously work towards consciously creating the enabling environment for job creation

FIRST THINGS FIRST
LET THEM GIVE US THE POWER
THEN WATCH THE MAGIC HAPPEN
EITHER WE ALL GO SOLAR OR MINI/MICRO HYDRO OR WE GO CANDLE)
THEY ALSO CANNOT KILL THEIR GOLDEN GOOSE(US)
PERSONALLY I THINK OFF GRID INDUSTRIAL PARKS WOULD MAKE THE MOST SENSE

esere826:


Great
ah,.....thank God say intelligent people still dey here ooo
Now, this is what is called thinking out of the box, not just sitting around bottles of beer and rubbing ones belli then mouthing "Give us power and forget job creation we are special and can cope on our own"

This brings us back to the beauty of ensuring or proposing that government policies are purposefully designed to encouraging such actions
and reducing environmental barriers

BRO WE ARE NEW TO DEMOCRACY(FACT)
WE'VE TAKEN THE FIRST STEP(VOTD OUT PDP) TO "ENSURING" GOOD POLICIES
HOPEFULLY WE GET TO TEST RUN THE POWER OF RECALL ON IDLE LAWMAKERS