damiso:


Each to his own indeed.

However as I said in my intial post 'sadness' and 'happiness' are highly subjective and fluid states of mind/terms. There was one research that said Nigerians are the happiest people on earth but one week day in Idumota or Oshodi after having been harassed by car par touts and thoroughly insulted by the angry women who feels you disrupted her biscuit stall that was on the pavement that is meant for walking might leave you wondering where all the happy people are However go to a typical owambe on a Saturday and seeing people dance shoki like their lives depended on it would make you see the truth in that revelation .

it's all pretence.
those you see at owambe parties are just using it as an escape from the realities of their sufferings. after the party, normal depression & sadness returns. it's all a facade. even the celebrant is not happy - he is already counting the cost of the party even before the party is over.

Argument closed. No more replying and nobody should give me a mention again.

My thumbs aches!

coogar:


that article was in jest.

adam leaving eden to watch man utd & chelsea says it all. there's no other proof needed that a woman is a weaker vessel & she's only a helpmate.

if they are not......we should be praying to God the mother, God the daughter and God the holy spirit. adam got deceived cos he trusted eve. eve got deceived cos she was weak - she trusted a stranger.

Some parts of the article were in jest, but not all of it.

The writer was trying to prove the weaker-vessel theory null and void, and that was the serious part hence my rebuttal.

TV01:


Word C. Very well written!

It seems like this Francis Tony doesn't even have the capacity for critical reflection, let alone original thought.


TV

^{...no need to tear this one apart bit by bit...the single swipe mauling you gi' am don reesh !}

LOL.

It's all good.

Shollypopzz:
@crackhaus: Thank you jare! I always side-eye these christian feminists that blatantly deny the obvious sexism in the bible.

BTW, do Christians really believe the Adam and Eve story to be true?

Pascal wager

coogar:


are they?
i don't see the difference. without trying to aim for equal rights, this wouldn't be happening.

having being married for almost a decade, this thread is an eye opener for me.
Your post and that of lezz give a different (maybe better) perspective to life and living

coogar:


it's all pretence.
those you see at owambe parties are just using it as an escape from the realities of their sufferings. after the party, normal depression & sadness returns. it's all a facade. even the celebrant is not happy - he is already counting the cost of the party even before the party is over.

now this is hilarious some of my work colleagues are silently following this thread

crackhaus:

Some parts of the article were in jest, but not all of it.

The writer was trying to prove the weaker-vessel theory null and void, and that was the serious part hence my rebuttal.

the writer must have been high on paraga if he actually thought that was a superior argument. a man is more likely to be persuaded by his partner.

eve was no stranger to adam so he was not at fault to believe her. besides, until then - adam hadn't experienced any sort of deceit or falsehood from eve. why would he doubt his partner?

eve on the other hand should have been smarter. satan was a stranger to her. why was she so gullible to believe what a stranger had told her? adam had been in that garden alone for sometime - how come satan didn't try his tricks then?

shrekandfiona:

lol you got the bolded summary as claimed by the Op. For me, true happiness is being content with my life irrespective of my haves or wants.

Very True. Same here.

damiso:

You ehn.
Those 'people'( I don't want to mention the name cos I don't want to derail the thread ) don't warm couches all day o sis. You know I was 'one of them' ;Dfor a while and jokes apart I actually think going to work is easier sometimes.
Stopping off at Costa to get a latte with Boys 2 men in the ears while reading my kindle without hearing' mummy' for the 100th time can be bliss

My dear your plight was totally different from the ones carrying the eternal flag. Like you've said, 'twas for a while' while aquiring more degrees to achieve a much better life.

I'm positive you were a bookworm throughout your stay & didn't watch one Nollywood while at it.

Good morning sis.

shrekandfiona:

now this is hilarious some of my work colleagues are silently following this thread

i thought such was forbidden in most nigerian companies. do you work @aso rock?

Shollypopzz:
@crackhaus: Thank you jare! I always side-eye these christian feminists that blatantly deny the obvious sexism in the bible.

BTW, do Christians really believe the Adam and Eve story to be true?

Christian feminists, LOL...

True feminists actually believe God to be sexist (I don't particularly share that sentiment, but I understand it), which is why I find it ridiculous that anyone would be Christian and feminist at the same time.
Or maybe there's a new breed of feminists I'm not familiar with.

Yes, Christians believe the Adam and Eve story to be true.
What do you believe?

I am so mad I came to this thread late, I feel like the mumu trying to keep a dead thread alive.

TV01:

Another lie; "Animal lovers" and lovers of children, both claim a real love and that the "sexual contact" is both beneficial and welcomed by the object of their affections

Equating homosexuality to pedophilia and bestiality makes no damn sense.

What he meant by love between the two is "consent". A child cannot give consent, neither can an animal.

Yet more lies; fact lesbian relationships are the most violent, closely followed by gay ones.

Olodo Pastor, lesbians are gay too. You meant male homosexuals right?? Wrong! ...... females in heterosexual relationships come second in regards to victims of domestic violence.

And even if it was natural, it does not make it moral. Nature does not determine morality or force behaviour.

You were making sense until you mentioned morality. Unless, there is an objective and inborn morality, this point should remain in the trash.

coogar:


the writer must have been high on paraga if he actually thought that was a superior argument. a man is more likely to be persuaded by his partner.

eve was no stranger to adam so he was not at fault to believe her. besides, until then - adam hadn't experienced any sort of deceit or falsehood from eve. why would he doubt his partner?

eve on the other hand should have been smarter. satan was a stranger to her. why was she so gullible to believe what a stranger had told her? adam had been in that garden alone for sometime - how come satan didn't try his tricks then?

Satan didn't have the necessary tools to be able to convince Adam into disobeying God, there's no way he would have succeeded using his cunning nature on Adam.

There's a whole story as to why and how everything that happened, happened the way it did - when I used to frequent religion section, I believe I had a lengthy discourse with someone on this...very elaborate, and with details you won't find in what the Roman-Catholic church calls Bible today.

The summary is that Adam had been given dominion over everything on earth, a position previously held by Lucifer (the serpent) after his fall - this was the beginning of Lucifer's beef with man.
After Lucifer and his followers were thrown out of heaven, earth actually became his home and he lorded over it.

It was a big blow to Lucifer's deluded sense of superiority that got him mad because after being sent out of heaven, God still came to earth to make man head over a place he and the bodiless demons called home.

He had nothing to offer Adam in return that Adam wasn't already enjoying as chief administrator of the earthly realm.
But Eve... she was Adam's weakness and he saw it. All he had to do was convince her, which was easier because he could appeal to her vanity... and then she would do the job of convincing Adam.

The truth is a woman surely has a certain kind of power over her man, especially if she can get that man to completely love and trust her

crackhaus:

Satan didn't have the necessary tools to be able to convince Adam into disobeying God, there's no way he would have succeeded using his cunning nature on Adam.

There's a whole story as to why and how everything that happened, happened the way it did - when I used to frequent religion section, I believe I had a lengthy discourse with someone then.

The summary is that Adam had been given dominion over everything on earth, a position previously held by Lucifer (the serpent) after his fall - this was the beginning of Lucifer's beef with man.
After Lucifer and his followers were thrown out of heaven, earth actually became his home and he lorded over it.

It was a big blow to Lucifer's deluded sense of superiority that got him mad because after being sent out of heaven, God still came to earth to make man head over a place he and the bodiless demons called home.

He had nothing to offer Adam in return that Adam wasn't already enjoying as chief administrator of the earthly realm.
But Eve... she was Adam's weakness and he saw it. All he had to do was convince her, which was easier because he could appeal to her vanity... and then she would do the job of convincing Adam.

The truth is a woman surely has a certain kind of power over her man, especially if she can get that man to completely love and trust her

100% correct!
they always do - this is why i am always taken aback when i read some pity-party stories here. a woman who cannot hold her man tight on a leash is not intelligent.

crackhaus:

Christian feminists, LOL...
True feminists actually believe God to be sexist (I don't particularly share that sentiment, but I understand it), which is why I find it ridiculous that anyone would be Christian and feminist at the same time.
Or maybe there's a new breed of feminists I'm not familiar with.

@highlighted: When you get that specific, I can't be sure. Especially when I am not even certain God exists. What I do know, is that the bible and the Christian religion preaches sexism........
But I also give recognize that Christianity played a role in the liberation of women.

Actually, there is a new breed of Christians. The ones that consider themselves the logical Christian. They believe logic and faith can be intertwined, they believe in Evolution, they consider stories like the Noah's ark, and Adam and Eve to be fake.

Me?? I believe nothing. I am open to everything, I am pretty much indecisive when it comes to spirituality.

Shollypopzz:
@crackhaus: Thank you jare! I always side-eye these christian feminists that blatantly deny the obvious sexism in the bible. BTW, do Christians really believe the Adam and Eve story to be true?

Welcome

There are no such things as "Christian-Feminists" (aka Femistians ); they are the most deluded bunch around. Like Pickabeau1 says "oil & water"

It's not sexism it role division and hierarchy. Men on top ! Note 1 Peter 7 below; equally heirs, but different in role/responsibility.

How did human beings come to be?


Timothy 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.


1 Peter 3 Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands... 7 Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.


TV

crackhaus:


The truth is a woman surely has a certain kind of power over her man, especially if she can get that man to completely love and trust her

If you come back to earth for a second, the same can be said for the man. A man has a certain power over a woman if she is completely in love with him.

BTW, what do you think would have happened if Eve ate the fruit and Adam didn't?? Do you think God showing up only after Adam ate the "fruit" is significant? Like, is it sending a bigger message??

Also, what do you think would have happened if Adam ate the fruit and Eve didn't??

FrancisTony:
Argument closed. No more replying and nobody should give me a mention again.

My thumbs aches!

Couldn't resist one final one. Na only thumb ache? How's your back? !


TV

crackhaus:

Christian feminists, LOL...

True feminists actually believe God to be sexist (I don't particularly share that sentiment, but I understand it), which is why I find it ridiculous that anyone would be Christian and feminist at the same time.
Or maybe there's a new breed of feminists I'm not familiar with.

Yes, Christians believe the Adam and Eve story to be true.
What do you believe?

True feminists consider any teaching that stands at variance with theirs to be sexist...
Most religious teachings stand in contrast with what they preach and am still talking about Christianity, They prolly consider ALLAH to be not only sexist but a misogynist as well...
Religion and feminism are like water and oil, they cannot mix

crackhaus:

That article is a very poor attempt at sounding intellectual, very poor - the best way to misinterpret the scriptures is to try applying logic in its interpretation, and that is what the writer did.

A non-christian (someone not filled with/led by the holy spirit) has no business trying to explain Bible accounts, at best what he/she resorts to is conjectures and baseless rhetorics.

Eve was deceived into eating of the forbidden fruit by Satan because she was the one more likely to give in easily, that's the kind of weakness being alluded to when a woman is called a weaker vessel.
That conjecture about Adam abandoning his home thus leaving Eve at the mercy of Satan to be deceived, is just comical...how anyone could imply that is beyond me - it's a large garden, how possible is it that they be together every single time?

Between Adam and Eve, Satan knew which could be easily swayed by words and promises of good things... which till this day is true - women are so easily sold a dream and keep falling for the tactics of men who just want to get into their pants.
Eve was moved by the promise of having more wisdom, the allure of being more than she was - this is why Satan picked her. Adam couldn't have been swayed by such things because he already had charge over everything that was created, an appointment God bestowed on him...so it woulda been hard for Satan to have convinced him that eating the forbidden fruit could give him more.

Now the article also says that because Adam was deceived by Eve (another human), that makes him weaker - this is another conjecture based on layman interpretation.
The reason Satan chose Eve was because he knew that no matter how great this new man (God's priciest creation) was, his weakness was the woman by his side.

Adam did not get deceived by Eve into eating of the fruit because he was weaker than her, but because of the love he had for her - this is still man's greatest weakness today.
Woe unto that man that can easily be manipulated by the love he has for a woman.

The article also said Eve argued with Satan, I don't know where the writer got that from...definitely not the same Bible and concordances I have read.

I also don't know where he read that Adam shifted blame to the woman.
God asked them why they were hiding, and Adam replied that they saw that they were naked.
God knowing why, then asked if they had eaten of the tree...to which Adam replied that the woman gave him to eat.
If this is what the writer calls passing blame, then why not also refer to Eve as shifting blame when she was asked the same question?
Didn't she also answer when asked that it was the serpent that made (beguiled) her to eat of the fruit?

The exact word used in the King James's Version is beguiled.
Beguile in modern English means to be charmed or enchanted... In our naija vocabulary, it means to toast, chyke, or woo.
This is what Satan did to Eve, and is something that women still fall for till this day - be charming, enchanting, and appeal to a woman's vanity and watch her fall miserably for you.
Satan could never have succeeded in beguiling Adam.

Consequently, Adam trusted and loved this woman a little too much and didn't feel the need to resist, and this was his downfall...as is the downfall of many great men till this day.



Bro, there are too many things wrong with that article... I would have loved to tear it apart bit by bit, but my fingers ache right now.

Bro, I duff my hat. Excellent post.

TV01:


It's not sexism it role division and hierarchy. Men are on top

It's not sexism but one gender is on top

[img]http://.net/i/166.gif[/img]

Shollypopzz:
I am so mad I came to this thread late, I feel like the mumu trying to keep a dead thread alive.

Dull of mind and body - stop drinking from that toxic ideological stream and feeding on spiritual detritus

Shollypopzz:
Equating homosexuality to pedophilia and bestiality makes no damn sense.

It makes exact sense. They are exactly alike, (deviant) paraphilias - afterall, y'all claim homosexual feelings are natural inclinations don't you?

Shollypopzz:
What he meant by love between the two is "consent". A child cannot give consent, neither can an animal.

1. A child can absolutely give consent - and the issue of consent regards children is a mere "statutory point"
2. And gay-homosexuals know this, hence the reason hy they are the main drivers in the campaign to keep lowering it.
3. And consent does not make a thing moral

Shollypopzz:
Olodo Pastor, lesbians are gay too. You meant male homosexuals right?? Wrong! ...... females in heterosexual relationships come second in regards to victims of domestic violence.

Gay is typically used in reference to men - and lesbian to distinguish female homos.
Nope it's lezzas, then fairies. Can you imagine? It must be all the rectal violence ! Who comes first from your sources? Bristling bull-dykes no?

Shollypopzz:
You were making sense until you mentioned morality. Unless, there is an objective and inborn morality, this point should remain in the trash.

Yes, fagtivists hate to talk about morality or the essence of what homos do physically. But we allhave consciences - no to mention the functional teleology of male/female is obviously beyond gainsaying.

There is a moral law and a Lawgiver. We shall all answer.

TV

Shollypopzz:


It's not sexism but one gender is on top

[img]http://.net/i/166.gif[/img]

...of the hierarchy. And more telling responsibility...otherwise Eve' transgression would have been solely on her own head - but Adam was held accountable for his wifes actions.

We can perform on-line deliverance for you if you like .


TV

Actually yeah, the only difference between a lot of moral vs. immoral IS consent. (If I take someone's thing? It's theft. If they agree with me grabbing it? It's totally not.) So not only moral vs. not, but whole the legal basis from that point in most states as well.

Children cannot consent. It's not a question about wordz even. It's a question of biology. They brains aren't developed to grasp mature matters on adult level, therefore they cannot consent, period.

But continue equating choices between two adults to all the abominations like child rape.

(By the way, there was some studies out there the only people so obsessed with thoughts about what's pedophilia and not, are pedophiles themselves. The rest of the society don't give a flying Bleep. So, present gentlemen being all about kiddies? This speaks volumes about you.)

Lezz:
The devil also said " you will be like God, knowing evil from good. Your eyes shall be opened" Eve didn't only fall for the sweet voice modern women still fall for, she actually was an usurper who wished to out grow her husband by being equal to God

This is rhema right here. I never thought of it like that before. This is very deep.

njokusboy:


True feminists consider any teaching that stands at variance with theirs to be sexist...
Most religious teachings stand in contrast with what they preach and am still talking about Christianity, They prolly consider ALLAH to be not only sexist but a misogynist as well...
Religion and feminism are like water and oil, they cannot mix

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women.[1][2] This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women.[3]

Feminist movements have campaigned and continue to campaign for women's rights, including the right to vote, to hold public office, to work, to fair wages or equal pay, to own property, to education, to enter contracts, to have equal rights within marriage...

Main reason why a supposed "Christian feminist" is neither fish nor fowl...they stand in contradistinction to one another...especially regards marriage...all the creative massaging of scripture cannot change that...


TV

BlackLeopard:
Actually yeah, the only difference between a lot of moral vs. immoral IS consent. (If I take someone's thing? It's theft. If they agree with me grabbing it? It's totally not.) So not only moral vs. not, but whole the legal basis from that point in most states as well.

Children cannot consent. It's not a question about wordz even. It's a question of biology. They brains aren't developed to grasp mature matters on adult level, therefore they cannot consent, period.

But continue equating choices between two adults to all the abominations like child rape.

(By the way, there was some studies out there the only people so obsessed with thoughts about what's pedophilia and not, are pedophiles themselves. The rest of the society don't give a flying Bleep. So, present gentlemen being all about kiddies? This speaks volumes about you.)

in other words, you are saying consensual sex between 2 adolescent siblings is not immoral?

BlackLeopard:
Actually yeah, the only difference between a lot of moral vs. immoral IS consent. (If I take someone's thing? It's theft. If they agree with me grabbing it? It's totally not.) So not only moral vs. not, but whole the legal basis from that point in most states as well.

Children cannot consent. It's not a question about wordz even. It's a question of biology. They brains aren't developed to grasp mature matters on adult level, therefore they cannot consent, period.

But continue equating choices between two adults to all the abominations like child rape.

(By the way, there was some studies out there the only people so obsessed with thoughts about what's pedophilia and not, are pedophiles themselves. The rest of the society don't give a flying Bleep. So, present gentlemen being all about kiddies? This speaks volumes about you.)

Exactly!

I think most homophobes are paedophiles or closeted gays.

5minsmadness:

This is rhema right here. I never thought of it like that before. This is very deep.

Was devil himself not a man who once had the same thought?

BlackLeopard:
Actually yeah, the only difference between a lot of moral vs. immoral IS consent. (If I take someone's thing? It's theft. If they agree with me grabbing it? It's totally not.) So not only moral vs. not, but whole the legal basis from that point in most states as well.

A lot - not all?

BlackLeopard:
Children cannot consent. It's not a question about wordz even. It's a question of biology. They brains aren't developed to grasp mature matters on adult level, therefore they cannot consent, period.

Adult brains aren't fully developed till around 24 on average.

Homosexuals are notorious for campaigning for a reduction of the statutory age of consent
Homosexuals continue to push for increasing sexualisation of our children - I posted liinks earlier - legally consent is merely a statutory concept, not a biological one . Who are you tryong to dribble

BlackLeopard:
But continue equating choices between two adults to all the abominations like child rape.

Consent, choices, word sophistry does not make the deviant right, or the immoral good.

BlackLeopard:
(By the way, there was some studies out there the only people so obsessed with thoughts about what's pedophilia and not, are pedophiles themselves. The rest of the society don't give a flying Bleep. So, present gentlemen being all about kiddies? This speaks volumes about you.)

Show us the studies. Is it the same one that says people who are disgusted by homosex are closeted gays . I guess in lieu of a moral compass, sound science, or intellectual honesty, tropes must suffice .

Go and find yourself an anus to rummage around in - your choice


TV

coogar:


in other words, you are saying consensual sex between 2 adolescent siblings is not immoral?

It's not immoral but the problem is: offsprings they might produce.

Imagine subjecting innocent kids to deformity.

coogar:


in other words, you are saying consensual sex between 2 adolescent siblings is not immoral?

You learn to read, Coogar. I was talking about adults/adults, adults/children. Nowhere in the post I talked teens, where so much is blurred, and the only one bringing incest into all of this is you. Derailing for newbies.