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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! (5870 Views)
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Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Nobody: 10:06pm On Apr 17, 2015 |
Maamin: Goodday Maam, Your point is respected, however, since this book is of doubtful authenticity by many Christians, it cant be a good point especially for us who doubt its authenticity. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Nobody: 10:18pm On Apr 17, 2015 |
PastorOluT: When did I say I didnt get you sir after two explanations? Pls show me that which u think am dodging so that I can respond to it. But I certainly wish you guys will be sincere and open minded. of course, the decision is yours to choose your path in life no matter how wrong it is. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by johnw74: 2:18am On Apr 18, 2015 |
JMAN05: I have already said to you that I'm not interested in discussing - hearing your beliefs, I already know them, and I know that they are false. It's so hard for jw to just answer a question honestly, instead jw doesn't answer, and comes back with other questions. johnw74: |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Maamin(m): 5:14am On Apr 18, 2015 |
JMAN05: But well it is certain that..Jude quoted the book of Enoch, I also like studying the apocryphal books, they contain some explanation of biblical exegeses. Is good to go out of the box. I also believe that their are more Chief princes (archangels) than just one as you have insinuated. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Maamin(m): 6:01am On Apr 18, 2015 |
If they could be more than ONE PRINCES how Micheal which supposed to be ONLY ARCHANGEL still be among the PRINCES? Thank you very much, I was about making that explanation Archangel also mean Chief prince...and for the fact that the verse Dan. 10:13 says "13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, [size=16pt]one of the chief princes[/size], came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia".. suggest that there is more than one archangel or cheif prince. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Nobody: 10:15am On Apr 19, 2015 |
Maamin: You might be right sir, but you can also be wrong, I wont be definite. If you want us to discuss why I dont accept that book, you can form another thread. For now, use the accepted books to prove your point. Peace! |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Nobody: 10:26am On Apr 19, 2015 |
johnw74: Ok sir, your wish is granted. When you are ready to discuss with open mind, we can talk. I have personally decided to discuss with people who are open minded ALONE. Anything short of that, count me out. Immediately i discover ones insincerity, I could decide to end it up. O if you cant change ur position, no discussion sir. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Nobody: 10:56am On Apr 19, 2015 |
Maamin: In other words, heavenly princes are angels? |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Maamin(m): 11:12pm On Apr 19, 2015 |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Maamin(m): 11:18pm On Apr 19, 2015 |
JMAN05: There is no need for that...but it is certain that archangel is more than one..thank you! |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Nobody: 11:41pm On Apr 19, 2015 |
Maamin: Ok Sir, so whom do you think is the Prince mentioned at Dan 8:11, 25? v. 11 It exalted itself even against the Prince of the army, and from him the constant feature was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down. 12 And an army was given over, together with the constant feature, because of transgression; and it kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success. v. 25 And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by johnw74: 12:38am On Apr 20, 2015 |
JMAN05: What is between your ears? I stopped discussing your false beliefs with you days ago. I have personally decided to discuss with people who are open minded ALONE. You ask that others have an open mind, yet jw rejects scriptures that show jw belief is false, and that shows that your mind is closed, isn't that right? Anything short of that, count me out. Immediately i discover ones insincerity, I could decide to end it up. O if you cant change ur position, no discussion sir. It's been made clear already that there is no discussion with you, because of jw insincerity. jw think they are in charge jw tell what to do, not ask jw answer a question that they cannot answer with another question. jw is quiet weak. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Maamin(m): 9:17am On Apr 20, 2015 |
JMAN05: If you read to the end of the chapter, the vision was interpreted..its not talking about angels. ![]() |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Nobody: 10:54am On Apr 20, 2015 |
Maamin: who is it talking about? read it well sir. (check verse 10). The final part didn't dismiss the application to heavenly prince. am yet to see how. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Nobody: 11:24am On Apr 20, 2015 |
johnw74: Which prove did u give and I don't accept? remind me, but will u change if u see proof? I really want to know. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Maamin(m): 12:27pm On Apr 20, 2015 |
JMAN05: Here is the complete chapter Daniel 8 Daniel Chapter 8 1 In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first. 2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai. 3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last. 4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great. 5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. 6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power. 7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand. 8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. 13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. 15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man. 16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. 17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. 18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright. 19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. 20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power. 23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. 24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. 26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. 27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it. You will have to explain the bold to tally with what you are saying. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by johnw74: 1:06am On Apr 21, 2015 |
JMAN05: johnw74: |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by johnw74: 2:34am On Apr 21, 2015 |
jmano5: There is something wrong with this person. You have no proof. johnw74: |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by johnw74: 2:49am On Apr 21, 2015 |
JMAN05: Here is just one. jmano5: God is clearly saying that the man Jesus that He begot is not an angel but God, God the Word. jmano5 reject the scripture giving it other meaning. Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, [size=14pt]O God[/size], is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son" is the same as saying "I have never called an angel my Son" jw takes the plain sense of scripture and change it to suit their false doctrines. Christians take their doctrines from the plain sense of scripture. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by johnw74: 2:54am On Apr 21, 2015 |
jw believe because Michael is the only angel in the Bible called an archangel, that he is the only archangel. That is weak logic. Gabriel is the only other good angel named in the bible to my memory, so jw by their logic must believe that Gabriel is the only angel besides Michael? Jesus said there are many legions of angels. Mat_26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? There are two bad angels named in the Bible: lucifer/satan and apollyon/abaddon. Isa_14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. apollyon is king over those in the bottomless pit, he is their chief, chief means arch, he is the archangel of those in the bottomless pit. lucifer is in charge of one third of all the angels, he is chief over one third, he is an archangel. Michael is one of the archangels-chief princes. Princes does not only apply to angels, but you can look that up for yourself. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Nobody: 12:46pm On Apr 21, 2015 |
johnw74: i have given answer to that sir. but will u change if u see proof? Just give me answer to that question and i will add to what I ve said earlier about that Hebrews. Because if u are not sincere in this discussion, I won't discuss with u. thats my method now, u can't change that. are u willing to change sir? |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Nobody: 1:17pm On Apr 21, 2015 |
johnw74: I have already said to you that I'm not interested OK sir, I personally have seen ur point, it is very wrong. But I believe if we can sincerely scrutinize each other's point, we shall know who is truly wrong. I just want to know if u are ready for whatever is the outcome of the discussion. An ready, are u? and will u give it an unbiased consideration? This is just what i want to know. and this time, let's do it calmly, no abuses or sarcasm. You said u don't want a discussion, but am surprised to see u ve already filled the thread with ur posts. how then will I believe u? just tell me whether u agree to the terms. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Emusan(m): 2:11pm On Apr 21, 2015 |
JMAN05: @bold-Are you and your organization being sincere at anytime? Asking someone to change, please change to where? To your lie and scholarly teaching or updating teaching? |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by johnw74: 1:08am On Apr 22, 2015 |
JMAN05: Mental as anything ![]() Because if u are not sincere in this discussion, That's rich, jw who change the Bible and teach false doctrine, talking about sincerity. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by johnw74: 1:15am On Apr 22, 2015 |
JMAN05: You wont, jw is full of unbelief. just tell me whether u agree to the terms. No I don't, and you will endure to mine, like it or not. My terms are that once someone rejects the scriptures I consider them a lost cause and no longer try putting them straight. I may at times however point out your wrongs for my pleasure and in hopefully helping someone else. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by johnw74: 1:25am On Apr 22, 2015 |
jw with false doctrines push and push and push them, there is hardly a front door they haven't knocked on. Christians will tell you a couple of times the Truth, then if you reject the Gospel, they let you go your own way. The devil is busy in these times, before the return of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by johnw74: 1:33am On Apr 22, 2015 |
JMANO5: You were stuck, I hope I was able to give you a bit of a push? |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Nobody: 1:18pm On Apr 23, 2015 |
johnw74: Granted, rejecting the scriptures is a major setback for anyone, however, I believe u are the one rejecting the truth of God's word. You on the other hand think I am the one. don't you think then, that it will be fine to have a calm unbiased look at the subject? so that we can in a civil way dig and learn and make adjustment where needed? That sound nice to me. what do u think? |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by Nobody: 1:28pm On Apr 23, 2015 |
johnw74: True, that is what we do - continually preach the truth but if someone rejects, we live him and Jah. But as true christians, we wholeheartedly accept any inviation for a calm and unbiased bible discussion with people. We yearn for that! But why do u reject the offer sir? I think I ve tried, maybe u are not in the mood for now. You may be in the mood next time. Peace! |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by johnw74: 2:34am On Apr 24, 2015 |
JMAN05: I have discussed with jw in the past and I have seen their predictions fail and new ones emerge. When I say I am not interisted in discussing beliefs with jw, that is true. But you are showing that you have great difficulty in believing what is true. JMANO5: Wrong Spirit. |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by oswardic(m): 8:02am On May 11, 2015 |
Sometimes I get pissed by what JW really stand for.. "Arguments and winning debates". My question is straight forward, what exactly is the course of the JW after winning a debate? What exactly would they want the convinced become after the debate? Is it all about teaching and not applying it to their daily lives or what? I have a friend who is JW, when I came closer to him, I knew this people are just scholars of what they believe and definitely not unto God.. Their moral life is substandard, they practice basically all the immoral people practice.. My friend would smoke weeds, drinks, sleep with different girls etc, not judging but I am just being confused about what JW stands for; meanwhile, when it is time to talk about bible, you will see how calm this guy becomes and how he tries to win a debate, to it, it is all win win, probably once they are able to win a debate they are automatically open to some rewards from whoever I dont know.... For you to know they lack morals, outside a Bible discussion, raise another topic, and possibly a more worldly one, and you will see what they really stand up, no morals, only win a debate without any future induction of a godly life. Thank you! |
Re: Jehova Witnesses, I Want To Join Your Church, Help Me!!! by tysontim(m): 8:44am On May 11, 2015 |
I've followed this thread from beginning to this stage and as someone who is viewing this from a neutral ground I'll say that both Jman and johnw74 are all passionate about their beliefs, however is quite simple to pick out the one who is making sense here and I think it's the Jehovah witness guy, why do I say so? An average person can read an understand his cited scriptures and explanations and actually reconcile it with subject being discussed. Again the jw guy seem to be sure of himself that he is giving johnw74 an open invitation for them to calmly discuss this issue which he declined . johnw74 if you're sure of your self why don't you accept? I think the jw guy is trying there is no way so many people will be against you, you still reply them meaningfully. Anyone that thinks he knows more than him should just do what he does, start preaching to people and not staying in the comfort of your homes typing what you believe. After all every one here knows that evangelism is one of the most important things in Christianity, if Jesus and his deciples did it who are we not to. If you're not doing the you are really not a Christian and ALL this debate is a waste 2 Likes |
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