agaugust:



Guided bombs will speed up to about 150 km/hr.....reality of life, all bombs will be shot down by Roland missile with easy ease.

.

How?

Roland saw extensive combat in the Falklands and in Iraq

It never shot down any bombs

Infact, with the millions of tonnes of bombs dropped since ww2... why is there no one single example of one being shot down?

CRAM was invented specifically to shoot down bombs, it is a brand new technology, and you dont have it

These are the facts

Deal with it.

Yet again, you attempt to de-rail this thread when South African capabilities outmatch yours.

agaugust:




[s]That is what scientists call experiment without a laboratory, a mathematical hypothesis, needs no laboratory, a paper calculated 'experiment'.

It's the same thing you are trapped with on your paper and pen calculations that you posted as a photo. It's for a vacuum.

The source clearly says his chart is for free fall bomb speed INSIDE a perfect vacuum....

"The chart shows that the vertical velocity of a bomb dropped from 20,000ft in a vacuum would be the tremendous value of 773 m.p.h. (This figure applies to any piece of matter ; even a feather released at this height in a perfect vacuum would hit the ground at 773 m.p.h or about 1,200 km/hr."

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1940/1940%20-%202755.html

Nobody can ever calculate the real speed of a guided bomb in combat, every drop will be determined by :

1. Different horizontal wind resistance
2. Different aircraft
3. Different vertical air resistance
4. Different bomb weight
5. Different air density
6. Different bomb shape and added external kit
7. Different sideways wind resistance
8. Different bomb size
9. Different target mobility
10. Different bomb movements and directional guidance correction



That is the reason why you guys have searched internet tired today and you cannot find any military source for the speed of a dropped bomb.

Also, that is why NO MANUFACTURER in this world has ever quoted combat speed for it's guided bomb.

Show us the manufacturers' data specs sheet for the speed of Paveway and Umbani guided bombs? I dare you all


Your problem is that you think you are smarter than all military analysts and bomb manufacturers of this world, you want to become an Albert Einstein by proving the speed of a guided bomb, something that intelligent people of this world have carefully avoided for decades.

Fool

Now to your question I quote below :

"I asked you, how can a skydiver fall at 200km/h, faster than Umbani, which you claim falls at 150km/h?."

Simple, the Skydiver is smaller in size than the Umbani bomb, he is about half the size of the bomb and therefore less air resistance on him.

Also, he has no wings and the wings of a guided Umbani creates more surfaces for air to push back against and slow down the bomb.

Next, the skydiver falls free downwards, but the Umbani at 40 km away from target is also using it's little battery energy to glide forward over the distance of a whole city to city transit !

First, every single time seconds your bomb travels, it faces more exposure to air resistance horizontally pushing it backwards in a straight line.

Second, more wind resistance pushing it sideways off course and forcing it to re-correct and re-direct flight path via the guidance system to avoid going off course and missing target because it is a precision weapon and that causes up-down oscillation movement common to guided bombs.

Third, another air resistance is pushing upwards against the bomb vertically while the bomb falls down in altitude.....3 different air resistances backwards, sideways and upwards all against the guided bomb because of it's horizontal travel long distance range of many kilometers !

The skydiver man does not travel 40 km from city to city, or does he? No, he has far less struggle against air resistance, he will land on ground with more speed than your guided bomb, if he makes 200 km/hr....your bomb will make about 150 km/hr.

Let me tell you reality to save you guys from trapping and drowning yourselves into repeated delusions and hallucinations :

A bomb is slower than a missile, fact that needs no argument, all eyes see that.

A bomb has NO rocket combustion system to power it like a missile, so bombs will forever be slower than missile.

The speed of an AGM-65 Maverick missile is about 1,000 km/hr....a missile

Patches says the speed of Umbani bomb will be about 1,000 km/hr....a bomb

How does a free fall bomb and a rocket fuel powered missile move at the same speed ? Mission impossible.

That is the simple practical life proof that shows you that your assumption of a 1,000 km/hr speed bomb is very wrong, the world has NEVER built or seen such a thing !

Manufacturers publish the speed of their missiles BUT none ever published the speed of their manufactured guided bombs !

Guided bombs will speed up to about 150 km/hr.....reality of life, all bombs will be shot down by Roland missile with easy ease.
[/s]
.

Maybe Patchesagain or someone is willing to waste their time reading your post. I refuse to read through engineering you just make up on the spot, as you go along. Let me quote one small paragraph you typed thats shows whoever is reading this (Nigerians, South Africans, Others) that you have not got the slightest clue of what you are talking about, and this topic is beyond you. You typed this with your own fingers, no one held a gun to your head:


"Your whole argument is d.estroyed by the fact that the speed of 550 mph, 650 mph, or 773 mph, all over 1,000 km/hr, is achieved by dropping that bomb inside a perfect vacuum where no air exists, so you have to suck out all the air on planet earth to achieve your 1,000 km/hr speed according to your own source evidence :"


Now anyone with even the most basic grasp in physics can clearly see that the author of the above paragraph is clueless. The author (you) does not grasp one of the most basic universal laws. Your fatal mistake.....you quoted 3 different speeds (550, 650, 773 mph) for items falling inside a perfect vacuum. I repeat, you quoted 3 different speeds....for items falling in a perfect vacuum, dropped at 20 000 feet.

What a shocker . Now you still have the b.alls to type some long paragraph, with fake engineering as you go along. You are free to waste your own time.


P.S a "paper calculated experiment" is simply called a calculation.

http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-13668/

Why do I get a sneaky feeling the army will be getting operational units in the not too distant future. Hmmm...i wonder.

Extract from 2011 article

ARMY FUNDS GBADS II

"The South African Army has awarded Denel a R30.6 million contract for design risk reduction related to the ground based launcher for the Denel Dynamics Umkhonto missile. The work forms part of Project Protector, also known as the Ground-based Air Defence System (GBADS) Phase II. 

The award takes known spending on the missile component of the project to R134 787 961.39 since 2007. Total known spending stands at R200 738 80.27."


Since the 2011 article, In October 2013 Denel demonstrated to the SA Army and 9 other un-named countries the maturity of the system at that point. Three missiles were launched, two hitting targets at 15km and one at 20km. Denel is apparently working on a +30km missile, and eventually a +60km missile.








Good example of how the South African defence industry works when developing a home grown system. Army releases a reuirement it needs. Armscor, as an agent of the DoD sets out the project requirements to Denel. Specific operational requirements (range, altititude, number of targets it can simultaneously engage), system compatibility with current and future systems...you wouldn't want to accidentally shoot down a SAAF Oryx or Rooivalk during the confusion and stress of battle. So can the system be integrated with SAAB's Impi blue force tracker for example? SAAB's blue force tracker is fitted on almost all SAAF helicopters and transport aircraft. Can it fit into a C130? Can it be slung underneath an Oryx?

Gives one an idea of what goes into developing such a system, and all the dozens and dozens of tests conducted before they become SA Army inventory.

saengine:
http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-13668/
Why do I get a sneaky feeling the army will be getting operational units in the not too distant future. Hmmm...i wonder.
Extract from 2011 article
ARMY FUNDS GBADS II
"The South African Army has awarded Denel a R30.6 million contract for design risk reduction related to the ground based launcher for the Denel Dynamics Umkhonto missile. The work forms part of Project Protector, also known as the Ground-based Air Defence System (GBADS) Phase II. 
The award takes known spending on the missile component of the project to R134 787 961.39 since 2007. Total known spending stands at R200 738 80.27."
Since the 2011 article, In October 2013 Denel demonstrated to the SA Army and 9 other un-named countries the maturity of the system at that point. Three missiles were launched, two hitting targets at 15km and one at 20km. Denel is apparently working on a +30km missile, and eventually a +60km missile.


Good example of how the South African defence industry works when developing a home grown system. Army releases a reuirement it needs. Armscor, as an agent of the DoD sets out the project requirements to Denel. Specific operational requirements (range, altititude, number of targets it can simultaneously engage), system compatibility with current and future systems...you wouldn't want to accidentally shoot down a SAAF Oryx or Rooivalk during the confusion and stress of battle. So can the system be integrated with SAAB's Impi blue force tracker for example? SAAB's blue force tracker is fitted on almost all SAAF helicopters and transport aircraft. Can it fit into a C130? Can it be slung underneath an Oryx?
Gives one an idea of what goes into developing such a system, and all the dozens and dozens of tests conducted before they become SA Army inventory.

saengine:
http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-13668/

Why do I get a sneaky feeling the army will be getting operational units in the not too distant future. Hmmm...i wonder.

Extract from 2011 article

ARMY FUNDS GBADS II

"The South African Army has awarded Denel a R30.6 million contract for design risk reduction related to the ground based launcher for the Denel Dynamics Umkhonto missile. The work forms part of Project Protector, also known as the Ground-based Air Defence System (GBADS) Phase II. 

The award takes known spending on the missile component of the project to R134 787 961.39 since 2007. Total known spending stands at R200 738 80.27."


Since the 2011 article, In October 2013 Denel demonstrated to the SA Army and 9 other un-named countries the maturity of the system at that point. Three missiles were launched, two hitting targets at 15km and one at 20km. Denel is apparently working on a +30km missile, and eventually a +60km missile.








Good example of how the South African defence industry works when developing a home grown system. Army releases a reuirement it needs. Armscor, as an agent of the DoD sets out the project requirements to Denel. Specific operational requirements (range, altititude, number of targets it can simultaneously engage), system compatibility with current and future systems...you wouldn't want to accidentally shoot down a SAAF Oryx or Rooivalk during the confusion and stress of battle. So can the system be integrated with SAAB's Impi blue force tracker for example? SAAB's blue force tracker is fitted on almost all SAAF helicopters and transport aircraft. Can it fit into a C130? Can it be slung underneath an Oryx?

Gives one an idea of what goes into developing such a system, and all the dozens and dozens of tests conducted before they become SA Army inventory.

First off - this artical must be pretty awkward for those who claim the SANDF is broke

Second, the missile doesnt interest me much. What i want to know is what FCS the system uses. Is it indigenous or imported.

The reason being is that the FCS and battlefeild management system is the game changer - its arguably more important than the missile itself.

DENEL OVERBERG TEST RANGE

South Africa's version of "Area 51". Highly restricted access to sensitive areas. Employees are highly vetted since they deal directly with SA Air Force, Navy and sometimes Army weapons capabilites. 1 SAAF Gripen is permanently based at the range as a testbed for new weapons and systems.

High vetting is also because employees come into contact with foreign weapon systems and capabilities during testing. Range also supplies telemetry launch support for NASA and other space agencies.

Control Room





High speed camera image -Umkhonto missile launch



When A-Darter missile was still a baby years ago. Testing of rocket motor.



German testing of land based Iris-T missile.



German and Spanish Air Forces testing whatever needed to be tested.





Someone, from somewhere was testing an air defence system. Don't recognise the fatigue pattern.




Tracking unit

saengine:
DENEL OVERBERG TEST RANGE

South Africa's version of "Area 51". Highly restricted access to sensitive areas. Employees are highly vetted since they deal directly with SA Air Force, Navy and sometimes Army weapons capabilites. 1 SAAF Gripen is permanently based at the range as a testbed for new weapons and systems.

High vetting is also because employees come into contact with foreign weapon systems and capabilities during testing. Range also supplies telemetry launch support for NASA and other space agencies.

Control Room







High speed camera image -Umkhonto missile launch



When A-Darter missile was still a baby years ago. Testing of rocket motor.



German testing of land based Iris-T missile.



German and Spanish Air Forces testing whatever needed tested.





Someone, from somewhere was testing an air defence system. Don't recognise the fatigue pattern.




Tracking unit

You presume that irony will be recognised in this forum?

Again I ask, does a nonsensical question deserve an answer?

patches689:


First off - this artical must be pretty awkward for those who claim the SANDF is broke

Second, the missile doesnt interest me much. What i want to know is what FCS the system uses. Is it indigenous or imported.

The reason being is that the FCS and battlefeild management system is the game changer - its arguably more important than the missile itself.

http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-17306/

This article came a few months after the 1st one in 2011


[b]FURTHER MONEY FOR GBADS 2

"The South African Army has awarded Reutech Radar Systems (Pty) Ltd of Stellenbosch an R18.950 million contract for the continued development of a dual band X-and-L band technology radar. The work forms part of Project Protector, also known as the Ground-based Air Defence System (GBADS) Phase II.


Denel and the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research were allocated two similar contracts of nearly identical value earlier this month. The award takes known spending on the radar component of the project to R93 628 093.51 since 2007. Total known spending stands at R228 416 054.90, including R134 787 961.39 on the missile and ground-based launcher system.

...

Reutech Radar Systems (RRS), with Denel Dynamics and the CSIR is also receiving funding to demonstrate a 3D air defence artillery radar for GBADS 2 known as the RSR 320 or DBR XL. The system is based on the ESR 220 Thutlwa (ex Kameelperd, Giraffe) local warning radar already in service with the SA Army ADA, but with the addition of high-accuracy 3D target detection and tracking capabilities."[/b]

saengine:


"Your whole argument is d.estroyed by the fact that the speed of 550 mph, 650 mph, or 773 mph, all over 1,000 km/hr, is achieved by dropping that bomb inside a perfect vacuum where no air exists, so you have to suck out all the air on planet earth to achieve your 1,000 km/hr speed according to your own source evidence :"

Nope, all those speeds were from @Patches, and I NEVER agreed with that his source because it was posting imaginary data and NOT a real life test in the air or atmosphere.

All the 3 different speeds, 550 mph, 650 mph, 773 mph are all from @Patches' weblink source and I said whatever speed you claim, it is from a vacuum because NO EXPERIMENT was EVER DONE in real life air above the earth.....it's all a paper experiment.

The foolish source was just speculations and imaginations of bomb speed done on a piece of paper, NOBODY has done real life speed test.

I still insist bomb speed is about 150 km/hr, close to the 200 km/hr you quoted for a skydiver and that was a real life air above earth experiment NOT paper and pen imagination of a vacuum experiment where no life or air can exist.

Now, you show us the manufacturers' data specifications for the speed of Umbani and Paveway guided bombs, that is the trap I have set for you and all of you are imprisoned inside my trap....helpless and clueless forver !

.

Patchesagain:


How?

Roland saw extensive combat in the Falklands and in Iraq

It never shot down any bombs

Infact, with the millions of tonnes of bombs dropped since ww2... why is there no one single example of one being shot down?

CRAM was invented specifically to shoot down bombs, it is a brand new technology, and you dont have it

CRAM was invented majorly to shoot d.own MISSILES more than ordinary bombs, the big threat is guided missiles NOT bombs.

The world was not shooting down all bombs since world war II 1939 because there was no surface to air missile system like Roland until about 1980..... a fool like you think Roland existed in 1939 World War II when nobody had any SAM missiles in this world....fool.

Only a few countries have Roland, and Argentina is the first country with Roland that face a challenge at an airbase defended by Roland, they use it to shoot down British air force jets and bombs.

Iraq was face by many world power nation s launching thousands of thousands of cruise missiles and guided air to surface missiles that are enough to overwhelm even Russia.

South Africa does NOT even have one single cruise missile or guided air to surface missile to threaten Nigeria.

Roland at speed 2,000 km/hr will shoot down a 150 km/hr Umbani bomb.

By the way, how will SANDF walk into Nigerian army base and hand place laser designators for your Umbani inside Nigerian army camp ?

Fools of Soweto, you think guided bombs are witches and wizards that have 3rd eye ?

Anyway, Roland according to janes defence, shot down British bombs in Falkland war
.

.



.

[size=16pt]Fellow Nigerians, may name is Augustine, my nickname is agaugust....because I am a stammerer and in school I stammer when I want to pronounce my name Aug...ag..gus..ga gust.... That is how I got the school nick name Agaugust.

On this nairaland forum, I want to assure you all that South African military is ZERO threat to Nigerian military.

Never mind all the photos of SANDF and DENEL products posted on this thread/forum, all those toys have been taken care of by Nigerian military arsenal as the second most powerful military in Africa only next to Egypt.

Now, there has been a long argument on this thread/forum since two years ago in year 2013 till today 2015 :

I insist that Britain Vs Argentina Falkland war history records confirms and proves that one vehicle of Roland missiles sh.ot down two bombs dropped by British Royal air force jet fighter and the aircraft itself as it attacked Argentina's air base.

So, I insist that Nigerian army Roland missile systems, 300 missiles on 16 mobile vehicle launchers, will shoot down ALL Paveway and Umbani guided bombs of South African Gripen jets and Hawk jets, and also shoot down the jets themselves if they attempt what the British did.

I am a military researcher, and I work in defence industry, if I know what can happen in real combat/war/battle, I will say it and insist on it based on scientific evidence, historical evidence, technical evidence, and evidence from real military men I work with.

In 2014, Patches the South African fraudster deleted the source from Wikipedia in 2014 to confuse the world about what the Nigerian Roland can do to South African military. However, I restored it back and the whole of this forum knew that 50 million South Africans = 50 million fraudsters.

Today, the argument has surfaced again, South Africans say my source is only Wikipedia and not acceptable, I insist that the Wikipedia source is with citation from Janes Defence publication respected worldwide.

As a military researcher, I can tell you that only a born fool from his mother's womb will claim and continue to claim that a high speed missile cannot sh.oot down a slow speed bomb in combat.

I don't need any source to prove me right, I know what I know. However, for the sake of the innocent public whom these fraudulent and retaarded South Africans always try to deceive everyday with lies and deliberate misinformation about real life war, I have decided to post the original pages of the Janes Defence publications that prove : [/size]



[size=25pt] Roland Missile Shot Down Bombs in Falkland war !

Janes Defence Report Published below.

Final Proof !

Nigerian Missiles Will Defeat Every Weapon In South African Air Force .

Case Closed.

https://planesandstuff.files./2014/05/janes-artillery-air-defence.pdf

[/size]

.

Patchesagain:


I guess they bought T55's, Mowag's and multiple APC's and MRAP's through "black market proliferation channels"

No way they could have them from the 35 towns and garrisons that they over-ran

Virtually all equipment taken from the Nigerian military has seen been retrieved or destroyed. No MRAPs were seized from the Nigerian military.

T-55/mowag APC's are disposable assets . No blade of grass in Nigeria was ever over-ran, troops only retreated to counter-attack.

Neither are troops stationed in every part of the mission area, which is equal to the size of scotland and Wales together.

MikeCZAR:
Captured from the Nigerian army.

Only small arms can be transferred.

Boko-haram columns mostly consist of 14.5mm's mounted on pick-up trucks, the Nigerian Army doesn't field those.

patches689:


First off - this artical must be pretty awkward for those who claim the SANDF is broke

Second, the missile doesnt interest me much. What i want to know is what FCS the system uses. Is it indigenous or imported.

The reason being is that the FCS and battlefeild management system is the game changer - its arguably more important than the missile itself.

Yes, the first phase was setting up the C2 systems.

Henry120:


Boko-haram columns mostly consist of 14.5mm's mounted on pick-up trucks, the Nigerian Army doesn't field those.

Supported by APCs and technicals at its pick.

With infantry on motorbikes and foot.

saengine:
DENEL OVERBERG TEST RANGE

South Africa's version of "Area 51". Highly restricted access to sensitive areas. Employees are highly vetted since they deal directly with SA Air Force, Navy and sometimes Army weapons capabilites. 1 SAAF Gripen is permanently based at the range as a testbed for new weapons and systems.

High vetting is also because employees come into contact with foreign weapon systems and capabilities during testing. Range also supplies telemetry launch support for NASA and other space agencies.

Control Room





High speed camera image -Umkhonto missile launch



When A-Darter missile was still a baby years ago. Testing of rocket motor.



German testing of land based Iris-T missile.



German and Spanish Air Forces testing whatever needed to be tested.





Someone, from somewhere was testing an air defence system. Don't recognise the fatigue pattern.




Tracking unit

The Spanish were testing a cruise missile.

South Africa's "area 51" was "the circle".

MikeCZAR:
Supported by APCs and technicals at its pick.

With infantry on motorbikes and foot.

Like i said, 14.5mm's mainly. Only supported by a handful, maybe 1 or 2 APC's.

agaugust:


CRAM was invented majorly to shoot d.own MISSILES more than ordinary bombs, the big threat is guided missiles NOT bombs.

The world was not shooting down all bombs since world war II 1939 because there was no surface to air missile system like Roland until about 1980..... a fool like you think Roland existed in 1939 World War II when nobody had any SAM missiles in this world....fool.

Only a few countries have Roland, and Argentina is the first country with Roland that face a challenge at an airbase defended by Roland, they use it to shoot down British air force jets and bombs.

Iraq was face by many world power nation s launching thousands of thousands of cruise missiles and guided air to surface missiles that are enough to overwhelm even Russia.

South Africa does NOT even have one single cruise missile or guided air to surface missile to threaten Nigeria.

Roland at speed 2,000 km/hr will shoot down a 150 km/hr Umbani bomb.

By the way, how will SANDF walk into Nigerian army base and hand place laser designators for your Umbani inside Nigerian army camp ?

Fools of Soweto, you think guided bombs are witches and wizards that have 3rd eye ?

Anyway, Roland according to janes defence, shot down British bombs in Falkland war
.

90 degrees outside the radar coverage.

If a glide bomb dropped at an attack angle of 90 degrees from an altitude of 6000m above your systems it will be blown up.

Its radar which SAAF had and retired years ago, has an altitude limit of 4500m.

And can only track one target at a time.

Your Roland was designed to handle low flying and speed aircraft.

MikeCZAR:
90 degrees outside the radar coverage.

If a glide bomb dropped at an attack angle of 90 degrees from an altitude of 6000m above your systems it will be blown up.

Its radar which SAAF had and retired years ago, has an altitude limit of 4500m.

And can only track one target at a time.

Your Roland was designed to handle low flying and speed aircraft.

The world class and highly experienced British Royal air force FAILED to succeed with all tricks on the Roland at Stanley air base, angle 90 degrees did not save the Harrier jets, Roland sh.ot them down, from any angle the enemy came, the Roland is a 360 degree radar, it's not a one way radar inside the nose cone of a jet, it's an external rotating 360 degree circular radar you dummy

The British invented radar on this planet and they know about radar 1,000 times more than your tiny Soweto peanut b.rain can imagine, you just come here to cook up hallucinations about beating a radar that has beaten the British masters of radar....Mumu

One single Roland all alone sh.ot down two bombs and one jet fighter ALL at the same time, then you say it was only tracking one target at a time? That lone Roland just finished off 3 targets all at the same time. Dundee you are !

South Africa has NO solution to Nigerian Roland missiles.

You CANNOT enter Nigerian airspace side of the battle line and fly at 90 degrees above the head of Nigerian ground forces, NAF F-7 jets will be engaging your jets in air to air war before you go that far....you think only you have an air force? Fool
.

agaugust:


CRAM was invented majorly to shoot d.own MISSILES more than ordinary bombs, the big threat is guided missiles NOT bombs.

The world was not shooting down all bombs since world war II 1939 because there was no surface to air missile system like Roland until about 1980..... a fool like you think Roland existed in 1939 World War II when nobody had any SAM missiles in this world....fool.

Only a few countries have Roland, and Argentina is the first country with Roland that face a challenge at an airbase defended by Roland, they use it to shoot down British air force jets and bombs.

Iraq was face by many world power nation s launching thousands of thousands of cruise missiles and guided air to surface missiles that are enough to overwhelm even Russia.

South Africa does NOT even have one single cruise missile or guided air to surface missile to threaten Nigeria.

Roland at speed 2,000 km/hr will shoot down a 150 km/hr Umbani bomb.

By the way, how will SANDF walk into Nigerian army base and hand place laser designators for your Umbani inside Nigerian army camp ?

Fools of Soweto, you think guided bombs are witches and wizards that have 3rd eye ?

Anyway, Roland according to janes defence, shot down British bombs in Falkland war
.

CRAM is a capability you dont have meaning all your AAA systems are unable to shoot down bombs

Bombs fall at 1000kmph

Laser designation can be done via targeting pods, or GPS co-ords can be used to drop the bomb on target

agaugust:
.



.

[size=16pt]Fellow Nigerians, may name is Augustine, my nickname is agaugust....because I am a stammerer and in school I stammer when I want to pronounce my name Aug...ag..gus..ga gust.... That is how I got the school nick name Agaugust.

On this nairaland forum, I want to assure you all that South African military is ZERO threat to Nigerian military.

Never mind all the photos of SANDF and DENEL products posted on this thread/forum, all those toys have been taken care of by Nigerian military arsenal as the second most powerful military in Africa only next to Egypt.

[s]Now, there has been a long argument on this thread/forum since two years ago in year 2013 till today 2015 :

I insist that Britain Vs Argentina Falkland war history records confirms and proves that one vehicle of Roland missiles sh.ot down two bombs dropped by British Royal air force jet fighter and the aircraft itself as it attacked Argentina's air base.

So, I insist that Nigerian army Roland missile systems, 300 missiles on 16 mobile vehicle launchers, will shoot down ALL Paveway and Umbani guided bombs of South African Gripen jets and Hawk jets, and also shoot down the jets themselves if they attempt what the British did.

I am a military researcher, and I work in defence industry, if I know what can happen in real combat/war/battle, I will say it and insist on it based on scientific evidence, historical evidence, technical evidence, and evidence from real military men I work with.

In 2014, Patches the South African fraudster deleted the source from Wikipedia in 2014 to confuse the world about what the Nigerian Roland can do to South African military. However, I restored it back and the whole of this forum knew that 50 million South Africans = 50 million fraudsters.

Today, the argument has surfaced again, South Africans say my source is only Wikipedia and not acceptable, I insist that the Wikipedia source is with citation from Janes Defence publication respected worldwide.

As a military researcher, I can tell you that only a born fool from his mother's womb will claim and continue to claim that a high speed missile cannot sh.oot down a slow speed bomb in combat. [/s]

[s]I don't need any source to prove me right, I know what I know. However, for the sake of the innocent public whom these fraudulent and retaarded South Africans always try to deceive everyday with lies and deliberate misinformation about real life war, I have decided to post the original pages of the Janes Defence publications that prove : [/s] [/size]



[size=25pt] Roland Missile Shot Down Bombs in Falkland war !

Janes Defence Report Published below.

Final Proof !

Nigerian Missiles Will Defeat Every Weapon In South African Air Force .

Case Closed.

https://planesandstuff.files./2014/05/janes-artillery-air-defence.pdf

[/size]

.

Ok, so you have shown that the Roland can shoot down bombs. I was wrong. Unlike you, I am a man and I can freely admit that.

Now we can continue the argument:

Its hit ratio is 3/8

Thats a 37% hit rate.

You only have 16 Rolands of the Roland 2 category (not the shelter based launcher with the 10 second reload)

So that means that before it has to be manually reloaded each Roland can fire only 2 missiles.

16 times 2 is 32 - you can fire 32 missiles before you have to stop to reload.

37% of 32 is 11.

You will likely only hit 11 targets in one attack. South Africa has 50 PGM's imported from the US and unknown quantities of glide bombs.

Each Gripen can carry 5 PGM's and each Hawk can carry 5 PGM's.

This means that an attack by 3 Gripen and 3 Hawks will overwhelm your air-defences.

This means that in a single-strike with just 6 Aircraft we can destroy all of your Rolands and leave you completely naked.

"Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics"

Your Rolands cannot shoot down South African jets flying at 6km.

Finally, who says they are even operational? You purchased them in the 1980's and have bought no new missiles... Iraq purchased theirs at the same time and their missiles expired in 2003.

Finally, your central claim is that you are a military researcher - its what gives your claims substance. Now, you have to prove you are - because, if you are not a military researcher then your post is nothing but opinion

agaugust:


The world class and highly experienced British Royal air force FAILED to succeed with all tricks on the Roland at Stanley air base, angle 90 degrees did not save the Harrier jets, Roland sh.ot them down, from any angle the enemy came, the Roland is a 360 degree radar, it's not a one way radar inside the nose cone of a jet, it's an external rotating 360 degree circular radar you dummy

[s]The British invented radar on this planet and they know about radar 1,000 times more than your tiny Soweto peanut b.rain can imagine, you just come here to cook up hallucinations about beating a radar that has beaten the British masters of radar....Mumu [/s]

One single Roland all alone sh.ot down two bombs and one jet fighter ALL at the same time, then you say it was only tracking one target at a time? That lone Roland just finished off 3 targets all at the same time. Dundee you are !

South Africa has NO solution to Nigerian Roland missiles.

You CANNOT enter Nigerian airspace side of the battle line and fly at 90 degrees above the head of Nigerian ground forces, NAF F-7 jets will be engaging your jets in air to air war before you go that far....you think only you have an air force? Fool
.

First, lets get this straight.

Roland shot down one single Harrier. An ancient plane with low performance flying at low level. The british still hit port Stanley with Vulcan bombers operating at high altitude.

No one said it shot them down all at the same time - you are making that up

South Africa's solution is saturation attack - your Rolands can be defeated with just 6 aircraft

You have no early warning radar so you wont even know we are in your air-space, we can operate at will.

agaugust:
.
all those toys have been taken care of by Nigerian military arsenal as the second most powerful military in Africa only next to Egypt.


.

How, you have none of the following:

- Integrated air defense datalink
- early warning radars
- VSHORAD
- CRAM
- Battle-Feild Management systm

agaugust:


The world class and highly experienced British Royal air force FAILED to succeed with all tricks on the Roland at Stanley air base, angle 90 degrees did not save the Harrier jets, Roland sh.ot them down, from any angle the enemy came, the Roland is a 360 degree radar, it's not a one way radar inside the nose cone of a jet, it's an external rotating 360 degree circular radar you dummy

The British invented radar on this planet and they know about radar 1,000 times more than your tiny Soweto peanut b.rain can imagine, you just come here to cook up hallucinations about beating a radar that has beaten the British masters of radar....Mumu

One single Roland all alone sh.ot down two bombs and one jet fighter ALL at the same time, then you say it was only tracking one target at a time? That lone Roland just finished off 3 targets all at the same time. Dundee you are !

South Africa has NO solution to Nigerian Roland missiles.

You CANNOT enter Nigerian airspace side of the battle line and fly at 90 degrees above the head of Nigerian ground forces, NAF F-7 jets will be engaging your jets in air to air war before you go that far....you think only you have an air force? Fool
.

Which glide bomb in the class of Al Tariq/ Umbani or Israeli Spice bomb kits did the Royal air force use?

The radar on your Roland can only track one target at a time, it can't attack multiple targets simultaneously.

The Al Tariq/ Umbani glide bomb is similar to the Israeli Spice 250 system, with Its stand-off range it can be launched outside surface to air missile defended and radar covered areas.

Best attacking directions and angles can be chosen. Meaning even targets behind obstacles can be hit like command vehicles behind a building or a command centre behind a mountain or civilian building.

Air space? You can't detect anything at an altitude on 5000m.

If that object or bomb faced down to attack its target will be destroyed.

Your armed forces have no air borne or ground based early warning systems.

Jets engage what?

Isn't that what stand-off weapons are designed to do? Hitting the enemy from a distance he can't hit back.

It is obsolete! And nearing its expiry date if not expired like those found in Iraq by Polish forces.

Patchesagain:


First, lets get this straight.

Roland shot down one single Harrier. An ancient plane with low performance flying at low level. The british still hit port Stanley with Vulcan bombers operating at high altitude.

No one said it shot them down all at the same time - you are making that up

South Africa's solution is saturation attack - your Rolands can be defeated with just 6 aircraft

You have no early warning radar so you wont even know we are in your air-space, we can operate at will.

Only shot down Sub-Sonic fighters.

Precision strikes can take out systems like the Roland SAM.

agaugust:


The world class and highly experienced British Royal air force FAILED to succeed with all tricks on the Roland at Stanley air base, angle 90 degrees did not save the Harrier jets, Roland sh.ot them down, from any angle the enemy came, the Roland is a 360 degree radar, it's not a one way radar inside the nose cone of a jet, it's an external rotating 360 degree circular radar you dummy

The British invented radar on this planet and they know about radar 1,000 times more than your tiny Soweto peanut b.rain can imagine, you just come here to cook up hallucinations about beating a radar that has beaten the British masters of radar....Mumu

One single Roland all alone sh.ot down two bombs and one jet fighter ALL at the same time, then you say it was only tracking one target at a time? That lone Roland just finished off 3 targets all at the same time. Dundee you are !

South Africa has NO solution to Nigerian Roland missiles.

You CANNOT enter Nigerian airspace side of the battle line and fly at 90 degrees above the head of Nigerian ground forces, NAF F-7 jets will be engaging your jets in air to air war before you go that far....you think only you have an air force? Fool
.

[size=20]ROLAND SAM is blind at night. It is easy to defeat it. You jam it and the only option left will be to operate it manually and at night it cannot be manually operated at all.

BOOOOOOMmmm!!! there comes Gripens and even Rooivalk will take it out at ease since nobody will see it at night.

ROLAND SAM is the weakest SAM on market in 2015.[/size]

agaugust:


[size=16pt] Strong enough evidence for you to have edited and deleted it off Wikipedia

The original source is actually Janes Defence world respected military source, and the Wikipedia quote had an approved citation of source....citation #12....Janes Defence publication of Falkland war history.

All evidence posted below, @Pateches is beaten up blue black again [/size]



[size=16pt]Next time, don't you ever dare the truth, eat the humble pie
[/size]
.

The British flew how many attacks over the island. Of alll those flights it fired 8 times and missed 5 times. And they where going up against subsonic aircraft many with out dated counter measures. The best AA in that war where the GDF 35mm guns with far more kills.

Nigerian troops were doing what they do best on Thursday when they lost NE border town to BH. Marte has been recaptured by Boko Haram three times and it is said that Nigerian army mission in Sambisa forest failed dismally as they were trying to engage their final onslaught of the militants. The whole Sambisa is encircled with booby traps and it is said that the insurgents reacted more heavily pushing the troops out of the forest with heavy casualty. Boko Haram is further reported to have captured Marte using HE Anti tank weapons, AIR defence weapons and heavy firepower Nigerian military has never seen.

agaugust:


What makes you believe a Hawk jet that has no radar and is blind as a bat, will be 40 km away to see and detect locations where the enemy has deployed :

16 mobile vehicles of radar guided Roland launchers with 300 missiles

30 mobile vehicles of radar guided Shilka 4 barrel anti-aircraft cannon

Hundreds of computerized electro-optically guided Type 90 twin barrel anti-aircraft cannon built to shööt down cruise missiles .

Does your blind bat radar-less Hawk jet use witchcraft for finding far away distant targets?

You think war is a video game where the enemy air force goes to sleep in their own jet fighters and leave the airspace over their army undefended, for your own air force to fly and have fun.

By the time your Hawk jet sees where those enemy ground based air defence syatems are located, it is within range to be shot down and will fall from the sky blöwn into pieces.

I don't blame you sha my brother ignoramus, South African air force has NOT flown one single air to ground attack jet fighter sortie in the past 20 years. NAF jets have flown 3,000 air to ground attack sorties in 6 months so we will be lecturing your ZERO EXPERIENCED SAAF air force chief of staff on how to use guided missiles from air to ground plus the art if bombing defended targets.

SAAF is so inactive that they have become a plastic air force that majors on V.I.P travel and transportation for politicians.

South Africa ranks below Kenya today in current pilots combat experience, let's not compare SAAF to NAF, it will be an over-kill in favor of Nigeria......Kenya Vs South Africa is more realistic my brother
.

Dummy, the hawks jets are not blind, they use OC4 which integrate radar simulatory platform into one. The furthest that gripen jet or frigates, etc can see the hawks jet can see as well and take out the target at once more than hundreds of kilometers away.

mzilakazi:
Nigerian troops were doing what they do best on Thursday when they lost NE border town to BH.Marte has been recaptured by Boko Haram three times and it is said that Nigerian army mission in Sambisa forest failed dismally as they were trying to engage their final onslaught of the militants.The whole Sambisa is encircled with booby traps and it is said that the insurgents reacted more heavily pushing the troops out of the forest with heavy casualty.Boko Haram is further reported to have captured Marte using HE Anti tank weapons,AIR defence weapons and heavy firepower Nigerian military has never seen.

Kai!,there is God oo!!..
Post the source of your obviously bias report.Boko haram has no SAM nor {God forbid!} any ADM,so what "heavy air defense weapons" does BH have that our military has "never seen"?
According to a reputable source- THISDAYLIVE,battle is still ongoing in Marte,also,more heavy weapons have been deployed in Sambisa forest as our troops forge ahead.

agaugust:


Roland is a 360 degree radar, it's not a one way radar inside the nose cone of a jet, it's an external rotating 360 degree circular radar you dummy
.

Yes, it rotates 360 degrees at 60rpm.

The waves have a cone angle like coverage since it was designed to deal with low flying and slow aircraft its coverage is limited in range and altitude.

It can't detect a bomb flying above 4500m and able to attack it a trajectory 90 degrees.

And I didn't call you dummy.

....