14:


Can you please elaborate on "jealous" statement? There is nothing special about Nigeria, that would make SA envy nigeria, nothing. jealous of what, tell us, maybe you know something we dont know.

The intimidating right to speak as African GIANT is a lot to envy by your nation! Bwahaha... You don't know what you are saying. When South Africa is gradually becoming voiceless as a leader and as it would want the people of the continent to see its strength. Xenophobia remains as a disgrace and it will take a long time to have African nations trust.

@ SirShymexx

I agree with you that the "61 billion" or whatever figure claimed in those reports is ridiculous, and I don't agree with it either. After looking around a bit, I think I found where the figure was cooked up from. I think it was based on the money that Nigeria supposedly lost by not selling oil to apartheid South Africa. A similar unexplained figure (41 billion) is mentioned here:

https://www.nairaland.com/2278292/apartheid-south-africa-nigerias-role#33124307

Perhaps this 41/61 billion figure is adjusted for inflation or something because otherwise I don't see how they came up with it. And in any case, losing money by opposing apartheid is not the same thing as direct financial support.

That said, it seems that while Nigeria's role has been exaggerated in recent times, it was actually significant in the past. For example, Nigeria played a major role in getting most African states to recognize the MPLA (as against the apartheid South African supported UNITA) in Angola and provided financial and other support for the MPLA. It wasn't just Cuba that played an important role there. Also, I saw that you mentioned Thabo Mbeki being in exile in the UK for a while, but he was also in Nigeria for a number of years. Abraham Ordia, a Nigerian and the president of the SCSA also played a role in getting apartheid South Africa ostracized from some international sports events. Search for his name and "SCSA" and/or South Africa and you'll get some information on that. Here is one link on that guy:

http://www.nytimes.com/1984/07/28/sports/africans-are-playing-on-two-levels.html

Here's are some links on Nigeria's actions regarding the MPLA:

https://books.google.com/books?id=-SQg3d1KXMEC&pg=PA174

https://books.google.com/books?id=Ftz_gtO-pngC&pg=PA150

Here are more academic/reputable links (like you asked of the other poster you were discussing with) that mention some of Nigeria's other actions, none of which were written by Nigerians:

https://books.google.com/books?id=z7MVyj1yl7wC&pg=PA111

https://books.google.com/books?id=7VjJAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA95

https://books.google.com/books?id=zbBhLw-Hh28C&pg=PA126 (The entirety of ch. 11 of this book, titled "The Statesman," goes into detail about Obasanjo's actions. There is more info on the preceding pages).

That's just what I found from a brief search, but there is probably more than just these actions. I could probably find more if I looked harder.

all4naija:
Most of the countries they listed on the plaque are those nations which almost surrendered to Apartheid government by taking loans from it. Nigeria stood firm not to. Thanks to Tafawa Balewa of Nigeria.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_South_Africa_during_apartheid

Actually, the Balewa administrations approach to the issue of apartheid South Africa was confused, unlike that of Murtala Mohammed and Obasanjo's administrations, which took a firm stance against apartheid South Africa:

https://books.google.com/books?id=oMP4x6LVLeAC&pg=PA108

@ Shymexx

This source was written by a Nigerian, but the information seems to be credible (and academic/reputable) nonetheless:

https://books.google.com/books?id=_sDeDWCnnRAC&pg=PA93

Pages 90 through 94 discuss Nigeria's involvement.

PhysicsQED:
@ Shymexx

This source was written by a Nigerian, but the information seems to be credible (and academic/reputable) nonetheless:

https://books.google.com/books?id=_sDeDWCnnRAC&pg=PA93

Pages 90 through 94 discuss Nigeria's involvement.

I'm on my phone so I can't open your links, they might answer my question.

Do you think the fact that the list of countries is based on the help they gave to political parties is the reason Nigeria isn't included? Fighting apartheid doesn't mean helping any of those parties, people mention songs and nationalising companies, I don't see how that will get Nigeria included in that plaque.

Cue:

Even at that they still mistakenly said Namibia, instead of Nigeria, spent $61 billion. Arse.holes

and u believe your leaders when they say they actually sent 61billion dollars to help fight the apartheid

Samirana360:

I got what u ar saying...buh b4 we talk abt other continent.....do u agree with me dat nigeria is giant of africa as far as africa continent is concerned?

i don't see as giant yet dats y im patiently waiting for d policies of d incoming government.i want to see a currency dat will begin to appreciate, a more stable arm forces dat can secure d territorial integrity of d country, reduction in corruption and crime rate, a decisive leadership etc . Dese are some d things dat earn a country good name not perceive big name call GIANT

Fourwinds:
i don't see as giant yet dats y im patiently waiting for d policies of d incoming government.i want to see a currency dat will begin to appreciate, a more stable arm forces dat can secure d territorial integrity of d country, reduction in corruption and crime rate, a decisive leadership etc . Dese are some d things dat earn a country good name not perceive big name call GIANT

No country in africa can fight boko haram, and no con3 has a better economy dan nigeria in africa....
As if u've 4gotten, pls we ar talkin abt africa....
Dangote is d richest man in africa buh nt in d world....appreciate what u hav man..


My last quote tho

all4naija:
The intimidating right to speak as African GIANT is a lot to envy by your nation! Bwahaha... You don't know what you are saying. When South Africa is gradually becoming voiceless as a leader and as it would want the people of the continen t to see its strength. Xenophobia remains as a disgrace it will take a long time to have African nations trust.

You still have not given us any answer about the "jealousy"
South Africa is jealous of nigeria, on what? tell us

lack of answer means there is nothing that makes SA envy Nigeria. Which country would ever want to be like Nigeria?

osystein:


I'm on my phone so I can't open your links, they might answer my question.

Do you think the fact that the list of countries is based on the help they gave to political parties is the reason Nigeria isn't included? Fighting apartheid doesn't mean helping any of those parties, people mention songs and nationalising companies, I don't see how that will get Nigeria included in that plaque.

Nigeria just want to be noticed, they thought by having that fake GDP will propell them to be the boss in Africa. But they have not been noticed nor respected, so by trying to bully SA, they think they will earn the respect, little do they know that SA just consider them as Rwanda or kenya.

Nigeria cant be respected in the rest of Africa when they have not earned that title in their region. Go to SADC and ask who is the boss, they will tell you. The franco fone countries in the west africa dont even give respect to Nigeria, you know why, Nigeria has no influence there, so Nigeria wont even have the smallest influence in SA. Using the SA multinationals that have invested in Nigeria as a tool to get your point across, by so doing, you think some company sitting somewhere in the world and had intended to invest, would still come to nigeria and risk their millions in a risky environment. IN a country where there is desperation for FDI

14:


Current nigerian budget is $22Billion for 2015, so back then you could raise $61B, impossible.

Look, man.. i don't know how true this is but certainly was spent throughout the entire duration..

Saddening... very saddening... this ingrates, eh... hope the coming government put them in their position

osystein:


I'm on my phone so I can't open your links, they might answer my question.

Do you think the fact that the list of countries is based on the help they gave to political parties is the reason Nigeria isn't included? Fighting apartheid doesn't mean helping any of those parties, people mention songs and nationalising companies, I don't see how that will get Nigeria included in that plaque.

No. Nigeria did give financial support to the ANC (though certainly not that bizarre $61 billion figure being thrown around - which is based on the money Nigeria potentially lost by not selling oil to apartheid SA, not on actual direct contributions), and since there is a category for financial support to the ANC, Nigeria would at least have been listed there, even if Nigeria's important diplomatic actions/support are ignored or aren't considered to fall into any of those categories.

I think the reason Nigeria is not listed there is because the person or persons who made that list were not really thorough researchers or actual historians. The average South African doesn't know anything about any of Nigeria's actions against apartheid, so unless the person who made that plaque was some sort of academic, it's not likely they would know anything about Nigeria's involvement.

In any case, actual South African government members/officials have recognized Nigeria's contributions to the fight against apartheid on more than one occasion so omission from one particular plaque in that park does not mean so much. The plaque/board is simply not completely accurate. Of course it won't be changed just because some Nigerians on the internet feel it's inaccurate. It's up to them what countries' contributions they choose to acknowledge in their museum/park.

Michaelgates:
Those animals? They do not have brains to process things like that. In south african schools, they delibrately omitted Nigeria's part in their history books. That is to show u how jealous and ungrateful they are.

Just what is it that we are so jealous of? Can someone please tell me

it's time to nationalize south African companies in Nigeria and send the southies parking

Nigerians can be so stupid and annoying sometimes ehn. Making noise over things dey cant change. We have more important matters to get angry and emotional about instead of arguin over a stupid plaque in a country miles away. 9 Out of 10 nigerian graduates are either unemployed or underemployed. The house of assembly (senate and rep) earn more in a year than most civil servants earn in life time 'and dey are public servant'. They are about to pass a bill to pay principal officers life pension as if they are civil servants and you are not angry about that. Nigeria is in deep trouble and its Our fault. Let go of irrelevant matters. Thank you

firstolalekan:

Foól
According to WHO, Four out of every ten southafrican bıtches(pregnant women) is HIV AND AIDS positive.
Shame on you MOTHERFÚCKERS

Relax teenager, I said check your own country's HIV statistics maybe then you can have leverage to talk nonsense

wayne4loan:
e=mc2 ..... Ur signature just made me remember the one and only Albert Einstein

Yes, Einstein established my favourite saying, he's someone to always remember.

all of u S.A asking for wat S.A z jealousvof in Nigeria...allow me to make an analogy.
u tink lets say d U.S wanna do sumtin dat wuld affect d whole of africa dey wont make considering nigeria one of dia top priorities?? of course no one is saying dey wont consider S.A in d xm vein. bt hia z d issue S.A z seen as an industrializd country nd dat z rightly so bt evry one knws dat nigeria z not an industrializd nation bt a nation dat z largely under using/harnessing its capability yt it wuld make d top priority list of d U.S consideration in africa as S.A would.
bliv me..dats sumtin to b jealous of nd m sure one of S.A nightmare z d day Nigeria begins to rili use its capabilities.

m nt angry abt d exclusion....as a student of history i undastnd dat no mata ow ppl try hard to alter or rewrite history, history has a way of surviving un altered at d end.
SHALOM!

MduZA:


area boy,do you even know your status?

Goat
ofcoz i know and I am happy

PhysicsQED:
@ SirShymexx
I agree with you that the "61 billion" or whatever figure claimed in those reports is ridiculous, and I don't agree with it either. After looking around a bit, I think I found where the figure was cooked up from. I think it was based on the money that Nigeria supposedly lost by not selling oil to apartheid South Africa. A similar unexplained figure (41 billion) is mentioned here:

https://www.nairaland.com/2278292/apartheid-south-africa-nigerias-role#33124307

Perhaps this 41/61 billion figure is adjusted for inflation or something because otherwise I don't see how they came up with it. And in any case, losing money by opposing apartheid is not the same thing as direct financial support.

That said, it seems that while Nigeria's role has been exaggerated in recent times, it was actually significant in the past. For example, Nigeria played a major role in getting most African states to recognize the MPLA (as against the apartheid South African supported UNITA) in Angola and provided financial and other support for the MPLA. It wasn't just Cuba that played an important role there. Also, I saw that you mentioned Thabo Mbeki being in exile in the UK for a while, but he was also in Nigeria for a number of years. Abraham Ordia, a Nigerian and the president of the SCSA also played a role in getting apartheid South Africa ostracized from some international sports events. Search for his name and "SCSA" and/or South Africa and you'll get some information on that. Here is one link on that guy:

http://www.nytimes.com/1984/07/28/sports/africans-are-playing-on-two-levels.html

Here's are some links on Nigeria's actions regarding the MPLA:

https://books.google.com/books?id=-SQg3d1KXMEC&pg=PA174

https://books.google.com/books?id=Ftz_gtO-pngC&pg=PA150

Here are more academic/reputable links (like you asked of the other poster you were discussing with) that mention some of Nigeria's other actions, none of which were written by Nigerians:

https://books.google.com/books?id=z7MVyj1yl7wC&pg=PA111

https://books.google.com/books?id=7VjJAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA95

https://books.google.com/books?id=zbBhLw-Hh28C&pg=PA126 (The entirety of ch. 11 of this book, titled "The Statesman," goes into detail about Obasanjo's actions. There is more info on the preceding pages).

That's just what I found from a brief search, but there is probably more than just these actions. I could probably find more if I looked harder.



Actually, the Balewa administrations approach to the issue of apartheid South Africa was confused, unlike that of Murtala Mohammed and Obasanjo's administrations, which took a firm stance against apartheid South Africa:

https://books.google.com/books?id=oMP4x6LVLeAC&pg=PA108

Thanks for reply. That was what I was expecting all along, but no one really gave any interesting/academic response, apart from from numbers that look incredulous, off the bat, without any need to stress ya head. That said, you can't really count the $41 billion accrued over a period, which was the total amount for oil that would have been sold to apartheid South Africa as any form of help - cos the same oil was sold to buyers, and the country got paid for it.

I didn't know Mbeki stayed in Nigeria - good to know that. I believe he was just posted there to run the anti-apartheid propaganda wing. And perhaps that was why Nigeria was the venue of more propaganda than substance. Who else stayed in Nigeria? Oliver Tambo? Jacob Zuma? Joe Modise? Siphiwe Nyanda? Solly Shoke? I don't even think none of them were trained in Nigeria.

In as much as the role Abraham Ordia played in ostracising Apartheid South Africa from the commonwealth games is laudable - I still think the role played was grossly overrated. It had more than enough resources to play a more significant role. Apart from Apartheid South Africa's dehumanisation of black South Africa, it was a threat to the whole continent. Its military capabilities, especially nuclear weapons, and economic power made a few African countries even in West Africa cower, to the point that they started doing business with the country. Now, imagine if its campaign with UNITA (with support from the US, UK, and the west in general) had been successful Angola - that was a few countries away from Nigeria. Yes, the Murtala government did help MPLA (I think I alluded to how great Murtala Muhammed was in my earlier post as the best leader Nigeria ever had) overtly, and he was brazen about it, especially with his speech at the OAU, which probably led to his untimely death. However, after him, Nigeria never really did much (I'm sure you know the war ended in the 90s, not the 70s when Murtala died). Also, the fighting was doneby the Cubans - with the Soviets supplying most of the money and weapons. And the fall of apartheid South Africa started from Angola.

Yes, Obasanjo did a lot after Mandela was released, when negotiations were going on, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was instrumental in making Mandela take that bad deal that has left the apartheid structure intact. I don't and will never look at OBJ as a statesman - just too cunning for his own good.

Anyway, good read - but Nigeria should have done more. And I believe if Murtala Muhammed hadn't been killed - the country would've been the face of the struggle, unlike the rest who were more in propaganda/seminars for international press than actually contributing anything significant to fight the apartheid. Heck, even Irish republican army, all the way from Ireland fought with them on the front-line.

Regardless, thanks for the educative reply.

PhysicsQED:
@ Shymexx

This source was written by a Nigerian, but the information seems to be credible (and academic/reputable) nonetheless:

https://books.google.com/books?id=_sDeDWCnnRAC&pg=PA93

Pages 90 through 94 discuss Nigeria's involvement.

Interesting read.

I saw the fact that they donated money from time to time, albeit most of it was via the toothless/useless OAU (thank God they scrapped it). However, the rest were just overblown in the press. A lot of countries that did more than Nigeria never even publicised it the way Nigeria. Algeria did a lot behind the scene but they have never talked about it. Nigeria's foreign policy has always been in shambles - all noise and no bite.

firstolalekan:

Goat
ofcoz i know and I am happy

how many times do you brush your teeth in a day area boy?

SirShymexx:


Interesting read.

I saw the fact that they donated money from time to time, albeit most of it was via the toothless/useless OAU (thank God they scrapped). However, the rest were just overblown in the press. A lot of countries that did more than Nigeria never even publicised it the way Nigeria. Algeria did a lot behind the scene but they have never talked about it. Nigeria's foreign policy has always been in shambles - all noise and no bite.

am glad to see people that take time to do research instead of being so emotional with what ever is presented to them.

the intelletual and prudent ones in SA know fact about help towards them during an after their struggle,...i still do so much luv them because enemies actually makes one stronger an tougher,..Naija still remain giant of africa

SirShymexx:


Thanks for reply. That was what I was expecting all along, but no one really gave any interesting/academic response, apart from from numbers that look incredulous, off the bat, without any need to stress ya head. That said, you can't really count the $41 billion accrued over a period, which was the total amount for oil that would have been sold to apartheid South Africa as any form of help - cos the same oil was sold to buyers, and the country got paid for it.


I didn't know Mbeki stayed in Nigeria - good to know that. I believe he was just posted there to run the anti-apartheid propaganda wing. And perhaps that was why Nigeria was the venue of more propaganda than substance. Who else stayed in Nigeria? Oliver Tambo? Jacob Zuma? Joe Modise? Siphiwe Nyanda? Solly Shoke? I don't even think none of them were trained in Nigeria.

In as much as the role Abraham Ordia played in ostracising Apartheid South Africa from the commonwealth games is laudable - I still think the role played was grossly overrated. It had more than enough resources to play a more significant role. Apart from Apartheid South Africa's dehumanisation of black South Africa, it was a threat to the whole continent. Its military capabilities, especially nuclear weapons, and economic power made a few African countries even in West Africa cower, to the point that they started doing business with the country. Now, imagine if its campaign with UNITA (with support from the US, UK, and the west in general) had been successful Angola - that was a few countries away from Nigeria. Yes, the Murtala government did help MPLA (I think I alluded to how great Murtala Muhammed was in my earlier post as the best leader Nigeria ever had) overtly, and he was brazen about it, especially with his speech at the OAU, which probably led to his untimely death. However, after him, Nigeria never really did much (I'm sure you know the war ended in the 90s, not the 70s when Murtala died). Also, the fighting was doneby the Cubans - with the Soviets supplying most of the money and weapons. And the fall of apartheid South Africa started from Angola.

Yes, Obasanjo did a lot after Mandela was released, when negotiations were going on, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was instrumental in making Mandela take that bad deal that has left the apartheid structure intact. I don't and will never look at OBJ as a statesman - just too cunning for his own good.

Anyway, good read - but Nigeria should have done more. And I believe if Murtala Muhammed hadn't been killed - the country would've been the face of the struggle, unlike the rest who were more in propaganda/seminars for international press than actually contributing anything significant to fight the apartheid. Heck, even Irish republican army, all the way from Ireland fought with them on the front-line.

Regardless, thanks for the educative reply.

Deep! You guys are well knowledgeable... I've always been of the opinion that Naij didn't do too much to support SA during apartheid. Bar the nationalization of BP to AP (Forte Oil) which was more self serving to say the least. They rest of the support we gave was just mere propaganda.
The Real issue is the Devils Advocate, who is he? OB-motherphuckin-J, that's the CIA top boy right here in Naij and Africa as a whole, Nigeria and Africa's greatest nemesis. Until he dies we can never be free. I loathe that ape looking niggi.

Tdhforreal:


Deep! You guys are well knowledgeable... I've always been of the opinion that Naij didn't do too much to support SA during apartheid. Bar the nationalization of BP to AP (Forte Oil) which was more self serving to say the least. They rest of the support we gave was just mere propaganda.
The Real issue is the Devils Advocate, who is he? OB-motherphuckin-J, that's the CIA top boy right here in Naij and Africa as a whole, Nigeria and Africa's greatest nemesis. Until he dies we can never be free. I loathe that ape looking niggi.

Thanks.

That's why I have never liked OBJ and will never like him. The other devil is Babangida - the guy single-headedly destroyed two generations of Nigerians, with the way he opened Nigeria up for narcotics trafficking and fraud. He started the trend, and the country might never recover from it. Another big CIA mole.

Nigeria messed up during that era, and I think we all should forever be grateful to the Cubans and Soviet cos if UNITA and apartheid South Africa had been successful in Angola, they would've extended their tentacles all the way to Nigeria's border. Africa will most likely be divided into three now - North, middle, and Southern Africa.

Anyway, Murtala Muhammed was a great man. R.I.P to the warrior.

SirShymexx:


Thanks.

That's why I have never liked OBJ and will never like him. The other devil is Babangida - the guy single-headedly destroyed two generations of Nigerians, with the way he opened Nigeria up for narcotics trafficking and fraud. He started the trend, and the country might never recover from it. Another big CIA mole.

Nigeria messed up during that era, and I think we all should forever be grateful to the Cubans and Soviet cos if UNITA and apartheid South Africa had been successful in Angola, they would've extended their tentacles all the way to Nigeria's border. Africa will most likely be divided into three now - North, middle, and Southern Africa.

Anyway, Murtala Muhammed was a great man. R.I.P to the warrior.

Swear down! How do we rid all these fu.ckn CIA boys from this country? As we speak right now they've got GMB by the sack of his balls. Watch how they dictate western policies to him. Fuckn wankers, the lot of them!

Tdhforreal:


Swear down! How do we rid all these fu.ckn CIA boys from this country? As we speak right now they've got GMB by the sack of his balls. Watch how they dictate western policies to him. Fuckn wankers, the lot of them!

Brev, they're the untouchables - folks are better off waiting for nature/life to take its course and let them die off. I dunno if Tinubu is also in on it, but he probably cut a deal with them due to how close he's with Walter Carrington and whatever US Ambassador is posted to Nigeria - jury is still out on him and will have to wait for cables to know that, but that doesn't negate the fact that he's an astute politician. Then Atiku looks like a sure bet. Hence I'm a tad bit sceptical about him and the excessive dreams they're selling to folks. Also, during his first tenure - his foreign policy was a mess.

However, I still think GMB will perform far better than GEJ. GEJ is the worst thing to happen to Nigeria on all front. The man was just too stupid to allow some amateurs from a section of the country hijack his government to settle perceived scores and power-play they believed they have been denied for a long time, via brazen nepotism and excessive looting, rather than play chess and take it one step at a time, with international support. They had the chance to correct a lot of things but they failed woefully.

Hopefully, GMB'stenure will be their last walk/dance - that generation needs to go away forever.

SirShymexx:


Brev, they're the untouchables - folks are better off waiting for nature/life to take its course and let them die off. I dunno if Tinubu is also in on it, but he probably cut a deal with them due to how close he's with Walter Carrington and whatever US Ambassador is posted to Nigeria - jury is still out on him and will have to wait for cables to know that, but that doesn't negate the fact that he's an astute politician. Then Atiku looks like a sure bet. Hence I'm a tad bit sceptical about him and the excessive dreams they're selling to folks. Also, during his first tenure - his foreign policy was a mess.

However, I still think GMB will perform far better than GEJ. GEJ is the worst thing to happen to Nigeria on all front. The man was just too stupid to allow some amateurs from a section of the country hijack his government to settle perceived scores and power-play they believed they have been denied for a long time, via brazen nepotism and excessive looting, rather than play chess and take it one step at a time, with international support. They had the chance to correct a lot of things but they failed woefully.

Hopefully, GMB'stenure will be their last walk/dance - that generation needs to go away forever.

Brotherly, you understeend the game fam! I liked Jonathan but guy was a tad bit too docile. They could have played major chess and switched the game but they were just too hungry man. Anyways I hope GMB doesn't allow these western fuckerz. Already IMF are asking for.more devaluation and we know what that means. All in all make GMB allow us Abuja guys cake in as usual.