Badger IFV coming along nicely....

Missile variant firing Ingwe missile....

30 mm cannon firing...

EVarn:
@Henry120
The Rafale can be considered a 'magic' combat aircraft due to its powerful capabilities in battle,western fighter jets are most renown for their superior radar capabilities and avionic configurations,moreso for the rafale which is a flying piece of technology that has held the gaze of the world with its extraordinary performances in modern warfare.
Naturally,a 4+ generation capable fighter jet with such a low quantity of production will be very expensive to purchase for any foreign nation.
Qatar may be going for the rafale due to the appealing prestige attached to it,but lets not forget that these countries all have ulterior motives to their seemingly wasteful actions,many eastern nations are eyeing the delicious prospect of acquiring tech transfer for the indigenous production of the rafale,while some are even scrambling to acquire extremely ambitious military tech such as nuclear submarines and ICBM technology from france,such nations are willing to pay any amount to realize their quest.

I assure you, there's nothing the Rafale does better than the Super-hornet or the SU-35. They are all 4++ generation aircrafts.

The question of radar is of the equation as developed nations operate an Air-defence umbrella which combines Awacs, fighter jets, EG's, ground radar stations and SAM's to all data linked to form a wider defence bubble.

SU-30m2 allows for seamless integration of western avionics. So IAI or Rafael(israel) could supply some of the best western avionics.

Qatar may be buying them as a status bubble, but a serious military nation like india know they've paid too much for them.


So what does the Rafale do, that is worth €120 million a pop for a single unit.

jln115:

What ever dude, the Rooivalk was called in because the Mi 35s couldn't ID the enemy due to bad weather, and guess what ? the Rooivalk could ID the enemy and bombed the M23 into extinction.

And BTW your opinion don't matter bro!!

The Rooivalk is a piece of junk. The MI-35's deployed for that mission were all legacy variants.

It's like comparing a year 1990 toyota to that of a model 1991. The 1991 model is better than that of 1990, but they are but junks in 2015.

The Tanzanians and congolese had already weakened M23 before SA troops deployed.


Your 90% French Helicopter is the world's worst Helicopter built. Atleast legacy MI-35's were the top dogs when they first entered service, Up-graded MI-35's/ MI-35m's are on a whole nother level.

The Junk Rooivalk entered service as a junk obsolete piece of metal, hence the overwhelming rejection it got from the thais, brits, turks, indonesians, Brazilians etc etc

Not even the SAAF wants it, you only have a paltry 10 in active service.

Henry120:
I assure you,there's nothing the Rafale does better than the Super-hornet or the SU-35. They are all 4++ generation aircrafts.
The question of radar is of the equation as developed nations operate an Air-defence umbrella which combines Awacs,fighter jets,EG's,ground radar stations and SAM's to all data linked to form a wider defence bubble.
SU-30m2 allows for seamless integration of western avionics.So IAI or Rafael(israel) could supply some of the best western avionics.
Qatar may be buying them as a status bubble,but a serious military nation like india know they've paid too much for them.
So what does the Rafale do,that is worth €120 million a pop for a single unit.

In the case of India,this overpriced purchase may be a prognosis to India's quest to acquire the french:
*top notch nuclear submarines
*superior military aviatech
*nuclear missile tech and thermonuclear fusion test facility.
The best way to do all these is to acquire deep pockets and impress france

Henry120:


I've read about it, and nothing exciting about it. Both the F/A-18 Super hornet, SU-35/30sm, Eurofighter offer similar packages.

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/defense/rafale/the-sheer-power-of-multisensor-data-fusion/


It is not even an Air-superiority fighter like the F-22, Eurofighter or SU-35. It's tailored more towards ground attack first, then Air-Air combat.

Rafale is over-priced, much over-priced. If I wanna go high-end I would buy Su-35 Flanker instead, else at medium cost I would buy Su-30 SM with 400 km range radar and 400 km range air to air missile that speeds over 7,000 km/hr.....Rafale has just 200 km range radar.

It's funny when NATO jets are rated higher than Russian jets....wish they meet and fight over Ukraine in the air, then the American/European marketing propaganda of weapons performance will be exposed for the world to laugh at
.

EVarn:
In the case of India,this overpriced purchase may be a prognosis to India's quest to acquire the french:
*top notch nuclear submarines
*superior military aviatech
*nuclear missile tech and thermonuclear fusion test facility.
The best way to do all these is to acquire deep pockets and impress france

Exactly bros, plus the Rafale jet technology itself...the Indians are getting some Rafale tech secrets....while France wants a market for it's jet
.

Henry120:


The Rooivalk is a piece of junk. The MI-35's deployed for that mission were all legacy variants.

It's like comparing a year 1990 toyota to that of a model 1991. The 1991 model is better than that of 1990, but they are but junks in 2015.

The Tanzanians and congolese had already weakened M23 before SA troops deployed.


Your 90% French Helicopter is the world's worst Helicopter built. Atleast legacy MI-35's were the top dogs when they first entered service, Up-graded MI-35's/ MI-35m's are on a whole nother level.

The Junk Rooivalk enter service as a junk obsolete piece of metal, hence the overwhelming rejection it got from the thais, brits, turks, indonesians, Brazilians etc etc

Not even the SAAF wants it, you only have a paltry 10 in active service.

Good thing is nobody gives a sh1t about your opinion! Experts all round the world rate the Rooivalk as one of the best AH in the world.
Oh and BTW it lost only 1 Bid, when the Turks decided to go for the Agusta due to pressure from Nato.

Oh...And we have 11 in service

jln115:


Nope MI35s couldn't ID the enemy targets due to bad weather , thus the Rooivalks were called in.

Citation needed ! ....Also add the source of weather report for that day of operation.

Both helicopters attacked targets togehter at the same time in Congo
.

agaugust:


Citation needed !

Both helicopters attacked targets togehter at the same time in Congo
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNOwCBZp6bs

agaugust:

Exactly bros, plus the Rafale jet technology itself...the Indians are getting some Rafale tech secrets....while France wants a market for it's jet
.

And the Indians are providing more than enough market through sheer expense and quantity of purchase,India's increased interest in the rafale will also boost global confidence in the capabilities of the jet,especially among eastern and arabic countries where countries are stock-piling weapons as if it is chilled orijin due to ever escalating tensions.
As a reward,India is expecting heavy tech transfer;and knowing france's history,they wont be so obstinate for long,not in the face of weapon dollars.
At the end of the day,both sides win.symbiotic exploitation.

jln115:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNOwCBZp6bs

South African pilots report is no proof, post us the Ukrainian pilots report and let us compare both.

Easy to pick out lies when South Africans talk.

First the Rooivalk pilot said the Mi-24 Hinds attacked first at 2pm, and made M23 rebels alert and ready for the Rooivalk coming at 4pm.

Next he contradicted himself saying at 4pm Rooivalk arrived and M23 rebels were not expecting them.

Then he said anti-aircraft artillery kept firing at the Rooivalk and missing.....yet the Rooivalk was using unguided weapons with 2km range and withing hit range of enemy anti-aircraft fire.....even American aircraft get sh.ot down in that situation.

He claimed the Rooivalk did not even get scratched....really....na ghost....spirit ? Whom do you wanna fool ?

Then he said the Mi-24 Hinds failed, but UN reports say both Rooivalk and Mi-24/35 together side by side attacked M23 rebels at the same time...

"Rooivalks had conducted their offensive operations against M23 positions in partnership with a pair of Mil Mi-24/35 ‘Hind’ helicopters of the FIB." http://defense-update.com/20131107_rooivalk_combat_debut.html#.VUOJqyFViko

Meanwhile, even Congo DRC air force Mi-24/35 Hind helicopters were reported to have performed excellently against M23 rebels :


"The UN and the Congolese army sent MI24 and MI25 helicopters flown by Ukrainian pilots. The gunships, first made by the Soviet Union, strafed hillsides with 30mm rounds and fired rockets, a UN source said.

"We made several passes on rebel positions," the UN official said.


http://reliefweb.int/report/democratic-republic-congo/un-drc-helicopter-gunships-attack-m23-rebels

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/16/us-congo-democratic-fighting-idUSBRE96F14Z20130716

You cannot fool us here dude !
.

jln115:
you mean armies like the Nigerian army

Someone give this guy a Bell's.

EVarn:
madman

I was asking though!

Henry120:


There was no magic in Libya. The jets carried out routine missions any other jet can execute.

Nothing special.

Multi-role.

And good air to ground capabilities.

Sales go up! When your weapons are demonstrated in the field.

jln115:


Good thing is nobody gives a sh1t about your opinion! Experts all round the world rate the Rooivalk as one of the best AH in the world.

Rooivalk has NO fire control Radar.

Rooivalk 20mm cannon has only 2 km range

Rooivalk has only been tested against half dead rebels that had one 14.5 mm gun for air defence.

Try test your Rooivalks against vehicle mobile 23mm x 4 barrel air defence guns with 3.5 km effective range like Nigeria did with the Mi-35 M Hinds, and see how your 2 km range cannon and 3 km range unguided rockets will send your pilots to Hades in pieces.

Also test your Rooivalk against enemy shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles like the Russians did the Mi-24 Hinds against enemy Stinger anti-aircraft missiles.

You named Rooivalk as one of the best helicopter gunships in the world, yet it was only tested against rag tag rebels with machine guns, the Mi-24 Hind has fought against national armies and air forces around the world, against missiles and jet fighters.

Rooivalk is an untested obsolescent helicopter, that is now behind time
.

saengine:
30 mm cannon firing...

I can see the potential replacement of the Casspir just behind the Badger!

MikeCZAR:
Multi-role.

And good air to ground capabilities.

Sales go up! When your weapons are demonstrated in the field.

Rafale has never fought against another 4+ generation jet fighter, or against modern anti-aircraft missile defences
.

agaugust:


South African pilots report is no proof, post us the Ukrainian pilots report and let us compare both.

Easy to pick out lies when South Africans talk.

First the Rooivalk pilot said the Mi-24 Hinds attacked first at 2pm, and made M23 rebels alert and ready for the Rooivalk coming at 4pm.

Next he contradicted himself saying at 4pm Rooivalk arrived and M23 rebels were not expecting them.

Then he said anti-aircraft artillery kept firing at the Rooivalk and missing.....yet the Rooivalk was using unguided weapons with 2km range and withing hit range of enemy anti-aircraft fire.....even American aircraft get sh.ot down in that situation.

He claimed the Rooivalk did not even get scratched....really....na ghost....spirit ? Whom do you wanna fool ?

Then he said the Mi-24 Hinds failed, but UN reports say both Rooivalk and Mi-24/35 together side by side attacked M23 rebels at the same time...

"Rooivalks had conducted their offensive operations against M23 positions in partnership with a pair of Mil Mi-24/35 ‘Hind’ helicopters of the FIB." http://defense-update.com/20131107_rooivalk_combat_debut.html#.VUOJqyFViko

Meanwhile, even Congo DRC air force Mi-24/35 Hind helicopters were reported to have performed excellently against M23 rebels :


"The UN and the Congolese army sent MI24 and MI25 helicopters flown by Ukrainian pilots. The gunships, first made by the Soviet Union, strafed hillsides with 30mm rounds and fired rockets, a UN source said.

"We made several passes on rebel positions," the UN official said.


http://reliefweb.int/report/democratic-republic-congo/un-drc-helicopter-gunships-attack-m23-rebels

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/16/us-congo-democratic-fighting-idUSBRE96F14Z20130716

You cannot fool us here dude !
.

"First the Rooivalk pilot said the Mi-24 Hinds attacked first at 2pm, and made M23 rebels alert and ready for the Rooivalk coming at 4pm.

Next he contradicted himself saying at 4pm Rooivalk arrived and M23 rebels were not expecting them."

Dude you are fvcking r3tarded!Fact!!! He said the Mi24s were supposed to attack at 2pm, but they never ID the target due to bad weather and went back to base , thus there wasn't any reason for the rebels to expect them.

And you can provide as many sources as you want, I know the Rooivalk attacked the Rebels in conjunction with the MI24s, I was just pointing out that the Rooivalk has superior all weather capability.

"Then he said anti-aircraft artillery kept firing at the Rooivalk and missing.....yet the Rooivalk was using unguided weapons with 2km range and withing hit range of enemy anti-aircraft fire.....even American aircraft get sh.ot down in that situation."

Do you think he just hovered in one place without any evasive manoeuvers? This just points out the skill of our pilot.

MikeCZAR:
I can see the potential replacement of the Casspir just behind the Badger!

Jap RG35 4x4 for Mamba replacement and RG 6X6 for Casspir replacement.

agaugust:


South African pilots report is no proof, post us the Ukrainian pilots report and let us compare both.

Easy to pick out lies when South Africans talk.

First the Rooivalk pilot said the Mi-24 Hinds attacked first at 2pm, and made M23 rebels alert and ready for the Rooivalk coming at 4pm.

Next he contradicted himself saying at 4pm Rooivalk arrived and M23 rebels were not expecting them.

Then he said anti-aircraft artillery kept firing at the Rooivalk and missing.....yet the Rooivalk was using unguided weapons with 2km range and withing hit range of enemy anti-aircraft fire.....even American aircraft get sh.ot down in that situation.

He claimed the Rooivalk did not even get scratched....really....na ghost....spirit ? Whom do you wanna fool ?

Then he said the Mi-24 Hinds failed, but UN reports say both Rooivalk and Mi-24/35 together side by side attacked M23 rebels at the same time...

"Rooivalks had conducted their offensive operations against M23 positions in partnership with a pair of Mil Mi-24/35 ‘Hind’ helicopters of the FIB." http://defense-update.com/20131107_rooivalk_combat_debut.html#.VUOJqyFViko

Meanwhile, even Congo DRC air force Mi-24/35 Hind helicopters were reported to have performed excellently against M23 rebels :


"The UN and the Congolese army sent MI24 and MI25 helicopters flown by Ukrainian pilots. The gunships, first made by the Soviet Union, strafed hillsides with 30mm rounds and fired rockets, a UN source said.

"We made several passes on rebel positions," the UN official said.


http://reliefweb.int/report/democratic-republic-congo/un-drc-helicopter-gunships-attack-m23-rebels

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/16/us-congo-democratic-fighting-idUSBRE96F14Z20130716

You cannot fool us here dude !
.

They weren't effective.

Another thing is that they do strafing runs like fixed aircraft.

The battle of Kibati was prolonged cause of them.

In Chanzu with the Rooivalk in the field the rebels were easily dismounted.

The 20mm cannon has range of 5km+

While the unguided rockets have a range of 6km.

Yes they were not expecting Rooivalks! And no they assumed the Hind strikes would make the rebels angry and expect more strikes.

agaugust:


Rafale has never fought against another 4+ generation jet fighter, or against modern anti-aircraft missile defences
.

which aircraft of its class has fought in your dreams?

agaugust:


Rooivalk has NO fire control Radar.

Rooivalk 20mm cannon has only 2 km range

Rooivalk has only been tested against half dead rebels that had one 14.5 mm gun for air defence.

Try test your Rooivalks against vehicle mobile 23mm x 4 barrel air defence guns with 3.5 km effective range like Nigeria did with the Mi-35 M Hinds, and see how your 2 km range cannon and 3 km range unguided rockets will send your pilots to Hades in pieces.

Also test your Rooivalk against enemy shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles like the Russians did the Mi-24 Hinds against enemy Stinger anti-aircraft missiles.

You named Rooivalk as one of the best helicopter gunships in the world, yet it was only tested against rag tag rebels with machine guns, the Mi-24 Hind has fought against national armies and air forces around the world, against missiles and jet fighters.

Rooivalk is an untested obsolescent helicopter, that is now behind time
.

More opinion based Bull sh1t!!
As for the FCR saga, It has the TDATS sight, which can Auto track targets and engage target,s as well as carrying out reconnaissance.

agaugust:

Rooivalk has NO fire control Radar.

Show us a Nigerian air force Hind with a fire control radar.

jln115:

Good thing is nobody gives a sh1t about your opinion! Experts all round the world rate the Rooivalk as one of the best AH in the world.
Oh and BTW it lost only 1 Bid, when the Turks decided to go for the Agusta due to pressure from Nato.

Oh...And we have 11 in service

I bet you, the countries that rejected the Rooivalk would agree with me.

Yeah..... Soweto experts you mean! it is one of the best AH in the world, yet the turks, Malaysians, brits, thais rejected it. It is one of the best AH yet SAAF, cut it's order for the Helicopter from 32 to 12.

"Rooivalk"....... the Helicopter that is sooo good, not even the South-African Airforce wants it.


Yet the same turkey, ordered HQ-9's from China.

You have 10 in active service.

MikeCZAR:
Multi-role.

And good air to ground capabilities.

Sales go up! When your weapons are demonstrated in the field.

The Super-Hornet is multi-role, same as the Eurofighter and the SU-35.

They also have stellar air to ground capabilities.

Sales going up after using a 4++ generation fighter to hit targets in countries with virtually non-existent air defence systems is irreasonable and absurd.

The story would be different if they try using them against groups in Donesk and lughansk. This i can assure.

agaugust:


Rooivalk has NO fire control Radar.

Rooivalk 20mm cannon has only 2 km range

Rooivalk has only been tested against half dead rebels that had one 14.5 mm gun for air defence.

Try test your Rooivalks against vehicle mobile 23mm x 4 barrel air defence guns with 3.5 km effective range like Nigeria did with the Mi-35 M Hinds, and see how your 2 km range cannon and 3 km range unguided rockets will send your pilots to Hades in pieces.

Also test your Rooivalk against enemy shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles like the Russians did the Mi-24 Hinds against enemy Stinger anti-aircraft missiles.

You named Rooivalk as one of the best helicopter gunships in the world, yet it was only tested against rag tag rebels with machine guns, the Mi-24 Hind has fought against national armies and air forces around the world, against missiles and jet fighters.

Rooivalk is an untested obsolescent helicopter, that is now behind time
.

The South-Africans are serial delusionists!!!

Henry120:


I bet you, the countries that rejected the Rooivalk would agree with me.

Yeah..... Soweto experts you mean! it is one of the best AH in the world, yet the turks, Malaysians, brits, thais rejected it. It is one of the best AH yet SAAF, cut it's order for the Helicopter from 32 to 12.

"Rooivalk"....... the Helicopter that is sooo good, not even the South-African Airforce wants it.


Yet the same turkey, ordered HQ-9's from China.

You have 10 in active service.

The Rooivalk has only lost 1 bid, and that was to the Agusta a129(previously I said the eurocopter, that was a mistake on my part) when Turks were looking for a new AH, and it lost out due to the fact that Nato pressured Turkey to buy a Nato designed AH.

And we cut our Order due to raising cost, not due to the rooivalks capability.

And we have 11.

Henry120:


The South-Africans are serial delusionists!!!

Nigerians are compulsive Liars!!!

jln115:

"First the Rooivalk pilot said the Mi-24 Hinds attacked first at 2pm, and made M23 rebels alert and ready for the Rooivalk coming at 4pm.

Next he contradicted himself saying at 4pm Rooivalk arrived and M23 rebels were not expecting them."

The world does not believe the one sided story of a South African pilot praising himself for glory and discrediting other people behind their backs.

Dude you are fvcking r3tarded!Fact!!! He said the Mi24s were supposed to attack at 2pm, but they never ID the target due to bad weather and went back to base , thus there wasn't any reason for the rebels to expect them.

And you can provide as many sources as you want, I know the Rooivalk attacked the Rebels in conjunction with the MI24s, I was just pointing out that the Rooivalk has superior all weather capability.

"Then he said anti-aircraft artillery kept firing at the Rooivalk and missing.....yet the Rooivalk was using unguided weapons with 2km range and withing hit range of enemy anti-aircraft fire.....even American aircraft get sh.ot down in that situation."

Do you think he just hovered in one place without any evasive manoeuvers? This just points out the skill of our pilot.

Post us the Ukrainian Mi-35 pilot's report where they said the could not attack because of bad weather. Mi-35 Hind is an all weather combat helicopter.

Show us how a Rooivalk performs better in target ID than the Mi-35....they both use FLIR to find target....so show us the difference in technical specs of their FLIR
.

jln115:

More opinion based Bull sh1t!!
As for the FCR saga, It has the TDATS sight, which can Auto track targets and engage target,s as well as carrying out reconnaissance.

Mi-35 Hind too has targeting sights....Russian standard. I see no difference
.

MikeCZAR:


In Chanzu with the Rooivalk in the field the rebels were easily dismounted.

The 20mm cannon has range of 5km+

The SAAF Rooivalk pilot confirmed the helicopter cannon range as 2 km according to that your own video !

He fires the cannon, you don't ! He know the real range.

Don't compare gun power, the Mi-35 fires 30 mm x 2 double barrel cannon, Rooivalk fires 20 mm x 1 single barrel.

One burst of fire from Mi-35 will do 3 times more damage than the Rooivalk's tiny gun
.