oneeaast:
haha

Yoruba dictionary created by the International Bible society includes the word Ifayabale. In traditional Yoruba culture Ifayabale describes an Ifa ritual used for settling disputes. It comes from the elision ifa iya baba ile meaning the wisdom of the fathers and mothers of the earth. It is translated in the Bible society dictionary to mean the ascension of our Lord and Master Jesus Christ. Because Ifa is clearly many thousands of years older than Christianity the definition is either deliberated manipulated or profoundly uniformed.Hahahahahaha

tonychristopher:
In actuality, the Egun and Awori people are not yoruba. Their language is Egun which is similar to Ewe language spoken in Benin and parts of Togo. The Egun and Awori language is more 'eweid' than 'Yorubaid'. Some Egun people speak Yoruba just as Okrika people speak Igbo but are not Igbo.
The Aworis claim early link with Benin, however, they are Yorubas in today's Nigerian context.

Many Ijebus dont also believe in Oduduwa thing, I have one as my neighbour here, sometimes he doesnt even see himself as a yoruba he prefers to be called ijebu and this dude is educated. He has his reasons and I respect him

Because your friend doesnt believe in Oduduwa does not mean he is not Yoruba. So because your friend doesnt believe in Yoruba, all Ijebu people are now Igbio.

Listen to yourself. Your sense of reason is that of mentally deranged fellow.

So Ijebu and Awori, Ogun state are now Igbo because of your friend....

Awori are Egba people. They even have a festival and gods they celebrate in Ogun state.

Whats wrong with Igbo people who know Yoruba more than we Yorubas. Can't you concentrate your effort on finding the root of Igbos.

I am a christian, I dont believe in IFA, it doesn mean I am not Yoruba.

You need help!

1 I am not debating with you
2 I am not talking about igbo or not
3 learn how not to use foul language
4 don't quote me
5 you are not making any intellecual contribution

hotwax:


Because your friend doesnt believe in Oduduwa does not mean he is not Yoruba. So because your friend doesnt believe in Yoruba, all Ijebu people are now Igbio.

Listen to yourself. Your sense of reason is that of mentally deranged fellow.

So Ijebu and Awori, Ogun state are now Igbo because of your friend....

Awori are Egba people. They even have a festival and gods they celebrate in Ogun state.

Whats wrong with Igbo people who know Yoruba more than we Yorubas. Can't you concentrate your effort on finding the root of Igbos.

I am a christian, I dont believe in IFA, it doesn mean I am not Yoruba.

You need help!

tonychristopher:
1 I am not debating with you
2 I am not talking about igbo or not
3 learn how not to use foul language
4 don't quote me
5 you are not making any intellecual contribution

Then start sounding Logically.

Your Egba friend doesnt respresent all Egba people. He might hate his people/source. But it doesnt mean Egba people are not Yorubas.

My duty as a Yoruba man is to set record straight on public forum like this.

I will never allow anyone to tamper with my history for selfish/tribal or bigoted reason.

Aworis are not Yoruba, Egbas are not Yoruba, Ijebus are not Yorubas....then who is Yoruba?

Then their is no Yoruba then.

Then I am not Yoruba...I am a benin man..lolll hahahahahaha drunk fellas

hotwax:


Never insult our source. From your post I can see you are bent on hating Yorubas. All these fake histories are to discredit Yorubas. Odudua does not exist to you. Tomorrow you will say Yorubas dont exist. If you decide to turn it to ethnic bashing. I will join you into saying igbo forefathers are goats....

You are not Yoruba, you dont know about us. Any history of Yorubas void of oduduwa is fake. Odua is Yoruba, Yoruba is Odua...

If you can't accept that, then give us the history of your tribe igbo.

This is not ethnic bashing this is critical analysis of oduduwa

The question is
Was he real
Who is he
Where did he come from
What language did he speak
Who where his co traveller
What race was he
Where did he have his childhood
Whom did he marry
Where is his grave
Where are archeaological evidence of oduduwa
The Benin connection
Did he fall from sky

These are questions beging for answer@

hotwax:


Then start sounding Logically.

Your Egba friend doesnt respresent all Egba people. He might hate his people/source. But it doesnt mean Egba people are not Yorubas.

My duty as a Yoruba man is to set record straight on public forum like this.

I will never allow anyone to tamper with my history for selfish/tribal or bigoted reason.

Ok.

hotwax:


Oduduwa came from Middle east. He is a son to a king called Lamurudu. This is written in IFA divinity.

Dont tell me Oduduwa is a myth. Remember you believe earth was created by God. I know you can't disapprove that.{

Or as an atheist, you believe earth was formed billions of years ago by big bang. No one knows the date of the bang. No one kno the date of the date of the great flood. Dont tell me to look for date of birth and parents of Oduduwa.

haha..
can we see where it s written in ifa divinity?

oneeaast:
haha..
can we see where it s written in ifa divinity?

Ask your Yoruba elders, the meaning of OLÓFIN ÁLÁ

Let me hlp you out. We have many Lazy kids in this generation.
==================================================


JESUS, The Christ = OLÓFIN ÁLÁ, was Initiated in the Yorubaland into IFÁ.
¡Ogbó, ató, àsúre, Ìwòrìwòfún. OLÓFIN á gbà é, BABA ODÙDÚWÀ á gbà é, ÒRÚNMÌLÀ ÈLÀ á gbà é! – May You Have Long Life, with the Spiritual Blessing of Ifá Odù Ìwòrì Wòfún (Who Opens the Divine Portal of the Grace of OLÓDÙMARÈ), May the Blessing of OLÓFIN (Concious Manifestation of GOD), Baba ODÙDÚWÀ, and ÒRÚNMÌLÀ ÈLÀ be upon you!
Aláàfia se a ni – May the Peace be with You!
“EGBÉ ÓDÙN OLÓFIN” = The Family of OLOFIN’S Secret
Teachings given by baba Odùdúwà through his Elègún (medium) and the Teachings of Égún Tata G, a spirit Emissary of Odùdúwà.
JESUS, The Christ = OLÓFIN ÁLÁ, was Initiated in the Yorubaland into IFÁ
Baba Odùdúwà:
Christ is a Title that means the anointed by the Holy Spirit, anointed by the Divine Power. Christ is ONE, and many Christ existed in many traditions around the Planet; Hindu, Yoruba, etc.
There are many things written, but few of them can compare with the Reality. The Catholic Religion has Angels and Saints in their Cult, and Christ is the Son of God in the Catholic Tradition. Within the (Esoteric) Yoruba Tradition, Christ is known as “OLÓFIN ALA”, the Smallest Son of OLÓFIN (the Conscious Manifestation of God). The First Son of OLÓFIN ÒRUN was OLÓFIN ÈLÀ (The Spirit Essence of Purity).
What image do we have of Jesus? The image is one of a Compassionate person, Why? All the Divine Beings don’t need anything from the Earthly Beings. The Divine knows and recognize its Power. Christ or Yeshua, there are many things written about him. What we know as Christ in reality is not as people portray him. In Reality JESUS was Furious being, Terrible, Why? No one knows in Truth how is he, only those 16 Major Spirits know the truth about him, and know him. Those who we call Apostles didn’t really know him. Christ is a Marvelous, and is an Enormous Being, but however he is a terrible being, he is Terribly Powerful. The use of terrible here refers not to the malignant aspect, but Terrible here is focus to his WRATH. The True name of Jesus was YOSEF, and he in reality is the smallest Son of OLÓFIN. Christ is the one who decided to Sacrifice himself for Humankind, he is Eternal and Divine, and by been a Divine Being, people had to Pay a very High Price for shedding his Blood. That is why there is so much blood shedding in those lands of Israel, Palestine, and stills more bloodshed to come in that area. No one truthfully knows his true physical form; no one knows many of the real Jewish Secrets.
NOTE: Based on the Teaching giving by Baba Odùdúwà and one of his Emissary Spirits, TATA G, Jesus travel to different lands to seek for knowledge, and he was initiated in different Traditions. He went to Egypt, Persia, India, Himalayas, and also people didn’t that he also went to Africa and specially to Yorubaland and there he was Initiated into IFÁ priesthood.
EGUN TATA G Teaching: Jesus name was mix-up with his father name, Jesus real name was Yosef and his father name was Jesus (Yeshua). Jesus (Yosef) went to Yorubaland, he was consulted with the 16 Cowries Shell of the ÒÒŞÀ tradition, he came with 16 Cowries shell mouths up (Eerindínlógún), that is a sign that the person who is Consulting the Oracle is a SON of OLÓFIN (God), so they took him right away to be Initiated into IFÁ. Also he received other initiations of other African Traditions specially the NGANGA Initiation of Ancestor Worship of Warrior Spirits. When Jesus was in the Catacombs he performed different spiritual practices of African origin (he also did the Bakinya or Rayamiento (Scratch) Ceremony to his inner disciples), also did Egyptian spiritual practices. When he left this world he became a High Spiritual Power, he is very close in Spiritual Hierarchy to Baba Odùdúwà.
BABA ODÙDÚWÀ on the Daughter of Jesus: The know character in the New Testament, Jesus, he only had a daughter, and she died as a Virgin. This woman was of dark color, later people worship her as the Black Virgin, and now a day’s people (Gypsies specially) worship her as SAINT SARAH KALI, they call her the VIRGIN of the GYPSIES, she is venerated in the south of France, and Rumania. She is depicted as a Black Virgin.
Another teaching Odùdúwà gave
Why you said that he has not satiated his Thirst of Blood?
When he (Jesus) did his EBO (Sacrifice), when he shed his Blood in that land (ISRAEL), He also wanted an EBO (a Sacrifice), so Big a Sacrifice he wanted to also be made, that even today still they are paying with blood in that area of ISRAEL, to this they are condemn the people you know as ISRAEL. This is due to the EBO EJE (Blood Sacrifice) and until they pay the same value of the Blood that Jesus shed, the bloodshed won’t stop. Imagine how much the Blood is worth, but not of a regular human, but the blood of a Divinity (ÒRÌŞÀ). This is what you should aspire to reach, to become Divine (as an ÒRÌŞÀ level).
Note: SORRY FOR ANY ENGLISH MISTAKES.
Note: Most think that OLÓFIN ÒRUN is another title for Olódùmarè, but the Teaching of Baba Odùdúwà through his Elègún rejects that statement, and say there are different. The late Nigerian Babalawo Ayo Salami in one of his books mentions that through his Ifá research, he found “Ese Ifá” (Ifá verses) that mention OLÓFIN ÒRUN as a separate Deity from Olódùmarè, and state that he was the First Being in the Firmament.

tonychristopher:


This is not ethnic bashing this is critical analysis of oduduwa

The question is
Was he real
Who is he
Where did he come from
What language did he speak
Who where his co traveller
What race was he
Where did he have his childhood
Whom did he marry
Where is his grave
Where are archeaological evidence of oduduwa
The Benin connection
Did he fall from sky

These are questions beging for answer@

All these question can only be answered scientifically/archeologically. If you want to accept. Because no one can win people like you in argument. When you see facts, you will keep arguing with facts.
-=====================================================

For archeoligical/Scientific work here is an extract and a link. And remember to give credit to the student who wrote the thesis.

In the Ifa corpus (the Yorubic sacred texts probably brought by Oduduwa from Egypt in the Edidi script) there are numerous creation stories, all these try to indicate the land of the Yoruban peoples as the place where creation took place. They do not only show that, they also indicate that the Yoruban peoples are aboriginal or autochthonous to their present area of abode.
Are the Yorubas really autochthonous to their present abode?
What are the natures of these traditions?
Are they true or mere fabrications?
All these questions will be answered when we come to the section of archaeology, cultural studies and linguistics. It is obvious, however, that the longer a people live in an area, the more they tend to claim aboriginality, as is evident with the whites of South Africa. Replete in the Yoruban traditions are tales of a possible migration from the “east”. Can the stories of both aboriginality and migration be correct? It is believed that both are correct.

While the Yoruban people have spoken Yoruboid languages, and practiced Yorubic cultures from time immemorial, it is obvious and even logical, that some aspects of Yoruban culture are borrowed. These borrowings point to ancient Egypt, whence the traditions of the Yoruban peoples diffused. It is also believed that while the Yoruban peoples have been in their geopolity from time immemorial, some aspects of their culture: divine kingship and aspects of religion: seem to be wholesale importation from Ancient Egypt.

The Testament Of Archaeology
In addition to the fact that the application of archaeology has been very recent in West Africa, the West African soil and climate are not very conducive to the preservation of relics. Many relics - except few durable ones - are either completely destroyed, or made inaccessible for the sake of archaeological studies.
It should be remembered that termites and other creatures feast voraciously on wood, and other products, which our ancestors in Africa used on day- to- day basis. Thurstan defines the problem thus,
“One of the difficulties of archaeology in West Africa south of the Sahara is that the situations for the preservation of bone do not seem to occur so frequently as in other parts of Africa”. (Thurstan Shaw: 1965)

In spite of these difficulties, there have been a lot of archaeological researches. Most of these artifacts predate 1200AD, which most modern historians ascribe to the founding of the Yoruban kingdoms. Among the most ancient of these finds is the Iwo-Ileru relic, which carbon dating has given a spectacular age of between 9000BC- 12000BC. Iwo-Ileru is very close to Akure in the east of Yoruba land. This find poses a question. Did the Yoruban peoples first settle in the East of Yorubaland? It will be too hasty for now to give any conclusive answer to this question, until further works of archaeology is carried out. Around Oke-Eri (Ijebuland) a wall and some relics have been discovered.

Many analytical historians feel the relics belonged to the Queen of Sheba, a wife or concubine of King Solomon. It is not conclusively proven that the relics at Oke- Eri belonged to the Queen of Sheba. The important thing so far is the finds depict an advanced human culture and civilization. Oke-Eri also corresponds to the east of Yoruba land. Both Iwo-Ileru and Oke-Eri lie in the eastern flank of Yorubaland and tend to authenticate an east to west migration within Yorubaland.
In western part of Yoruba land, some ancient finds have also been discovered around the Mejiro cave at old Oyo. Hear Shaw: - “At Old Oyo, a Neolithic industry was recovered which has no associated pottery or ground stone axis, but the sample was small and it is undated” (Shaw 1977: 53 ) - - - The relics at the Mejiro are dated some 4000BC. This proves that even in central Yoruba land, people have been living for thousand of years. Hence the Ifes claim 90 “kings” before the advent of Oduduwa! All over Yorubaland, Oyo, Owo (Ogho), Ondo, Itsekiri, Ilaje etc, few relics have been found which show that the present Yoruban peoples are lineal descendants of the ancients that once occupied and used the relics.

Continue reading on http://obamaandpeace..com/2010/03/oduduwa-and-yoruba-revolution-in-world.html

hotwax:


No...But to Igbos, lagos is your Dubai. You hardly see an Igbo family without a member living in Lagos.

dubai is too beautiful to be use as lagos example.
yes we go to lagos to do business and expand our business.but some place in lagos is too dirty to be compared as dubai.
igbos have taught the yorubas how to be clean.

stinggy:

Where did you dig this from?
Laughable

TBH, Igbos are better travelers than Yorubas but to come up with 3% means either you're being playful or you lack honesty.

to travel and dominate re two different things.so i give them 3%.

fact.

oneeaast:
dubai is too beautiful to be use as lagos example.
yes we go to lagos to do business and expand our business.but some place in lagos is too dirty to be compared as dubai.
igbos have taught the yorubas how to be clean.

How to be clean like Aba and Onitsha.

yes Igbo created LAWMA.

As useless and dirty as Lagos. Its like dubai to Igbo...It shows their class

hotwax:


Yorubas dont lament about Igbo in Lagos. Yorubas love Igbo in Lagos.

The saying "Lagos is no man's land" get yorubas angry. We want everybody in Lagos. We welcome people on our lands.

1. Lagos is somebody's Land (Igbo always contest this)
2. You can't come from your village and interfere in our politics. Yorubas never do that. Yorubas dont claim to own somebody else's land. We know our boundaries as visitors.

yu know yur boundary and your pple came to our land and resides there hence the olukumi in aniocha lg.

oneeaast:
yu know yur boundary and your pple came to our land and resides there hence the olukumi in aniocha lg.

Igbo reside in Lagos too and also claim Lagos belongs to their forefathers. Yorubas reside on Igbo Land, you wont even know they are there. They always mind there businesses

tonychristopher:
i like you, i must be honest, you are not insultive like others, very intellectual


Egun are Ewe language based

Ilajes are purely Ijaws speaking Yoruboid
same as kalabari are ijaw spaeking miasma of igbo langauage even otuoke also

Ever come across an Ilaje person? I have come across several. I've lived with them, befriended them and became 'family' to them.

Never, I repeat never had any Ilaje person I know ever said he/she was not Yoruba. You want to know why? The question simply did not came up. It is a token. It is like asking if I am African. What else would I be!?

I'm from Ondo state and there are entire local governments made up of mainly Ilaje people there. Please come there and ask if they are Yoruba. At least they are not lost in history.

Don't come online and ascribe your version of 'history' to people.

hotwax:


How to be clean like Aba and Onitsha.

yes Igbo created LAWMA.

As useless and dirty as Lagos. Its like dubai to Igbo...It shows their class

lawma is a street carriage of dustbin.some yoruba that have igbos as a neigbour ve being thought how to wore a clean clothes and keep their house clean including environment.
no offense

frm observation.

illiad1:


I have also read some of those books which I mistakenly lost. There was a day we held an argument about first settlers in lagos. I was telling them that I had actually read somewhere in a book by some whitemen telling that lagos was actually first occupied and ruled by benin kingdom. I even went further to ask them what Eko means in yoruba language and none of them could answer because its a benin language. And I told them that there are many lagos names that are not yoruba and have no meaning in yoruba language. Its just so unfortunate they easily result to insults whenever they lack facts to support their lies.

You are not just wrong, you're also ignorant.

the Aworis had been in Lagos from time, but they were fishermen and and farmers. Bini warriors came (by sea, mind you) amd subdued the coastal areas, specifically the islands, where they established their war camp (Eko).

hotwax:


Igbo reside in Lagos too and also claim Lagos belongs to their forefathers. Yorubas reside on Igbo Land, you wont even know they are there. They always mind there businesses

i said what i said cos yu said yorubas know their boundary..

read before typing.

oluamid:


Ever come across an Ilaje person? I have come across several. I've lived with them, befriended them and became 'family' to them.

Never, I repeat never had any Ilaje person I know ever said he/she was not Yoruba. You want to know why? The question simply did not came up. It is a token. It is like asking if I am African. What else would I be!?

I'm from Ondo state and there are entire local governments made up of mainly Ilaje people there. Please come there and ask if they are Yoruba. At least they are not lost in history.

Don't come online and ascribe your version of 'history' to people.

Are you saying ijaw has nothn in ilaje..I know many ilaje that see themselves as ijaw ...so there must be a reason

oneeaast:
lawma is a street carriage of dustbin.some yoruba that have igbos as a neigbour ve being thought how to wore a clean clothes and keep their house clean including environment.
no offense

frm observation.

Go to oshodi dominated by Igbos. Its always smelling like incinerator. Lagos dirtiness is a sole handwork of Igbos

Pls let us all forget all these "Eguns are not yorubas", "Olukwumi are not igbo", "so so are not so so" and bla bla bla.
The truth is that in the Nigerian context of today, ppl are free to choose wherever they want to belong to a large extent.

There are some groups who may choose a certain identity just for political convenience but that does not really mean that is who they are originally.

Left for me, i'd say Eguns are not yorubas because in their language alphabets, they have the letter V and Letter Z intonatitons in their language and this is something almost all other yoruba dialects lack.
But it is up to the Eguns to decide who they want to be, if they say they prefer to be identified as Yorubas and the other Yorubas accept them, fine, who are others to speak against this??

Same thing goes for the Aworis, Olukumis and all others. There is freedom of association to a large extent i think.

Just like Itsekiris who sometimes they will claim they are Yorubas and most other times they will reject. During the time of the Old regional system of govt, Itsekiris were identifying with the Yorubas just for political convenience and this helped them because Awolowo favoured the Itsekiris over the other Western minority groups, but today u will hardly see Itsekiris claiming to be Yorubas.

tonychristopher:


Are you saying ijaw has nothn in ilaje..I know many ilaje that see themselves as ijaw ...so there must be a reason

The Ijaw and the Ilaje are two different peoples. But due to the proximity of their locations it's expected that they will interact with one another, something which has greatly influenced both of them. Hence you see a similarity in both their cultures which is brought about by centuries of marriages, trade etc between the two.

However, the Ijaw are the Ijaw and the Ilaje are the Ilaje. They are two distinct people a fact that can be easily deducted once you have been with members of both sides for a few minutes.

Nowenuse:
Pls let us all forget all these "Eguns are not yorubas", "Olukwumi are not igbo", "so so are not so so" and bla bla bla.
The truth is that in the Nigerian context of today, ppl are free to choose wherever they want to belong to a large extent.

There are some groups who may choose a certain identity just for political convenience but that does not really mean that is who they are originally.

Left for me, i'd say Eguns are not yorubas because in their language alphabets, they have the letter V and Letter Z intonatitons in their language and this is something almost all other yoruba dialects lack.
But it is up to the Eguns to decide who they want to be, if they say they prefer to be identified as Yorubas and the other Yorubas accept them, fine, who are others to speak against this??

Same thing goes for the Aworis, Olukumis and all others. There is freedom of association to a large extent i think.

Just like Itsekiris who sometimes they will claim they are Yorubas and most other times they will reject. During the time of the Old regional system of govt, Itsekiris were identifying with the Yorubas just for political convenience and this helped them because Awolowo favoured the Itsekiris over the other Western minority groups, but today u will hardly see Itsekiris claiming to be Yorubas.

So why Eguns in Egba land and not in Benin (The fake source) ?

Who do Egun speak Yoruba? (although a curly one)

kennydee05:
Everywhere you go, you see Yoruba

Stop Lying with impunity!

I will agree with you here but there is a notion that ilajes are in Ijaw land







ILAJES (MAHINS) - ORIGIN

The Ilajes met the Arogbo-Ijaws in the home land of the latter people. The Ilajes escaped from Ile-Ife a few centuries ago running for their dear life because of the misunderstanding between them and their kith and kins in Ile-Ife. They arrived in Ijawland in the present Ondo State and pleaded to be sheltered. Thus the Ilajes whose countrymen, the Yoruba are hinterland based people found themselves settled along the Atlantic sea-coast separated from the hinterland by the Arogbo-Ijaw clan who inhabit the fresh water swamps of the Delta adjoining the mainland. This historical event explains why the oldest Ilaje-towns can only be found along the Atlantic coast line and not more than a few decades old. The Arogbo-Ijaws taught the Ilajes the art of swimming, fishing, house building and canoe-paddling the only mode of transportation in the area.

18. This story was corroborated by the testimony of the then Olugbo-Elect, Crown Prince Adebanjo Akingbade Mafimisebi. He is now the substantive Olugbo of Ugbo. Testifying before the Justice Ajakaiye Chieftaincy Commission of Inquiry sitting at Akure, he deposed as follows: "The Ugbo-Kingdom in the Ilaje-Ese Odo Local Government of Ondo State existed before Oduduwa came to Ile-Ife. Ugbo (Ilaje) Kingdom is one of the ancient Kingdoms in Yorubaland as a whole, and the people (Ilajes) were originally (underlining ours) in Ile-Ife before Oduduwa (father of the Yorubas) came and raided them. They first settled at Oke Mafunranyan (High Hill) which was later known as Oke-Igbo, and later migrated to the Arogbo-Ijaw riverine area of Ondo State." (See Sunday Sketch, June 19, 1988.

19. This history of Ilaje settlement in their present habitat is further corroborated in a short history of the Ilajes by an expatriate, Patriarch J. G. Campbell who stated that the Ilajes left Ile-Ife to Ese-Odo area where they were assisted by the Ijos (Ijaws) to settle in their new environment.

20. The said press statement by the conspirator Chiefs was released on the eve of the so called Constitutional Conference organised by the Abacha Administration. Its intention was to mislead, misinform and deceive the public, the Abacha Government and the delegates to the conference to deny us our request for a separate Local Government - Toru-Ibe Local Government Area.

21. The present Rejoinder by these writers has the same intention: to misinform, mislead and deceive the public and the Federal and State Governments in the on-going Boundary delimitation exercise embarked upon by the National Boundary Commission. The third purpose of these conspirators is to show the Ijaws in a bad light, all in their attempt to corner our God-given oil rich lands.

22. They insulted the whole Ijaw race by describing it as " a nomadic and highly sedentary race that migrate to other places to live, "using their canoes in the water ways and settling on shore to engage in their fishing business." These are very inflamming words , and these chiefs owe an unreserved apology to the Ijaw ethnic nationality.

23. The Ijaws are neither nomads, migrants nor settlers, as we shall prove very presently.


http://www.unitedijaw.com/egbemaclan.htm

oluamid:


The Ijaw and the Ilaje are two different peoples. But due to the proximity of their locations it's expected that they will interact with one another, something which has greatly influenced both of them. Hence you see a similarity in both their cultures which is brought about by centuries of marriages, trade etc between the two.

However, the Ijaw are the Ijaw and the Ilaje are the Ilaje. They are two distinct people a fact that can be easily deducted once you have been with members of both sides for a few minutes.

The Oduduwa Yoruba/Benin struggle can be easy settled:

tonychristopher please answer these of get Benin folks to answer them -

Oranmiyan founded Benin Monarchy and till infinity, elements of Yoruba kingship system will remain, how come any trace(s) of Ogiso system was not introduced by Ekaledahern since he introduced a unified political system in Ife. Moreover, Benin influence abound in Eko kingship (not Idejo kingship).

Oduduwa came to Ife with a number of things that remain in the palace today (the Are crown worn at olojo festival inclusive, was this what Ogiso folks wore?); they should list what items ekaledahern; a prisoner who was stripped off his status and escaped via bush parts stole or left with from Benin and brought to Ife.

Oduduwa introduced some rituals which are done by Oduduwa devotees in Ife till infinity, was ekaledahern an awo/a priest, either yes or no, how come the processes of these rituals and chants has no Benin elements in them?

tonychristopher:
I will agree with you here but there is a notion that ilajes are in Ijaw land







ILAJES (MAHINS) - ORIGIN

The Ilajes met the Arogbo-Ijaws in the home land of the latter people. The Ilajes escaped from Ile-Ife a few centuries ago running for their dear life because of the misunderstanding between them and their kith and kins in Ile-Ife. They arrived in Ijawland in the present Ondo State and pleaded to be sheltered. Thus the Ilajes whose countrymen, the Yoruba are hinterland based people found themselves settled along the Atlantic sea-coast separated from the hinterland by the Arogbo-Ijaw clan who inhabit the fresh water swamps of the Delta adjoining the mainland. This historical event explains why the oldest Ilaje-towns can only be found along the Atlantic coast line and not more than a few decades old. The Arogbo-Ijaws taught the Ilajes the art of swimming, fishing, house building and canoe-paddling the only mode of transportation in the area.

18. This story was corroborated by the testimony of the then Olugbo-Elect, Crown Prince Adebanjo Akingbade Mafimisebi. He is now the substantive Olugbo of Ugbo. Testifying before the Justice Ajakaiye Chieftaincy Commission of Inquiry sitting at Akure, he deposed as follows: "The Ugbo-Kingdom in the Ilaje-Ese Odo Local Government of Ondo State existed before Oduduwa came to Ile-Ife. Ugbo (Ilaje) Kingdom is one of the ancient Kingdoms in Yorubaland as a whole, and the people (Ilajes) were originally (underlining ours) in Ile-Ife before Oduduwa (father of the Yorubas) came and raided them. They first settled at Oke Mafunranyan (High Hill) which was later known as Oke-Igbo, and later migrated to the Arogbo-Ijaw riverine area of Ondo State." (See Sunday Sketch, June 19, 1988.

19. This history of Ilaje settlement in their present habitat is further corroborated in a short history of the Ilajes by an expatriate, Patriarch J. G. Campbell who stated that the Ilajes left Ile-Ife to Ese-Odo area where they were assisted by the Ijos (Ijaws) to settle in their new environment.

20. The said press statement by the conspirator Chiefs was released on the eve of the so called Constitutional Conference organised by the Abacha Administration. Its intention was to mislead, misinform and deceive the public, the Abacha Government and the delegates to the conference to deny us our request for a separate Local Government - Toru-Ibe Local Government Area.

21. The present Rejoinder by these writers has the same intention: to misinform, mislead and deceive the public and the Federal and State Governments in the on-going Boundary delimitation exercise embarked upon by the National Boundary Commission. The third purpose of these conspirators is to show the Ijaws in a bad light, all in their attempt to corner our God-given oil rich lands.

22. They insulted the whole Ijaw race by describing it as " a nomadic and highly sedentary race that migrate to other places to live, "using their canoes in the water ways and settling on shore to engage in their fishing business." These are very inflamming words , and these chiefs owe an unreserved apology to the Ijaw ethnic nationality.

23. The Ijaws are neither nomads, migrants nor settlers, as we shall prove very presently.


http://www.unitedijaw.com/egbemaclan.htm

Well, I'm not too keen on whose land is what. I'm only responding to the assertion that the Ilajes are a subset of the Ijaws. I believe everyone tells their history in their own favour. I'm sure the Ilaje will also have a different account of how they came about the land.

Whatever the case may be though, the fact is both of these people can be found in the coastal area of Ondo state. I rest my case.

I like your postultion and maturity, how i wish most people on NL would engage someone in intellectual discuss instead of insults


I am impressed with you


I must be frank

oluamid:


Well, I'm not too keen on whose land is what. I'm only responding to the assertion that the Ilajes are a subset of the Ijaws. I believe everyone tells their history in their own favour. I'm sure the Ilaje will also have a different account of how they came about the land.

Whatever the case may be though, the fact is both of these people can be found in the coastal area of Ondo state. I rest my case.

The Ife history of the Ooni dynasty confirms 38 Oonis, including Akinmoyero (1770 � 1800). Here are their names in the ascending order of the period of their reign: Ogun, Osangangan, Obamakin, Ogbogbodirin, Obalufon, Oronmiyan, Ayetise, Lajamisan, Lajodogun, Lafogido, Odidimode Regbesin, Aworokolokun, Ekun, Ajimuda, Gboo-Nijio, Okinlajosin, Adegbalu, Osinkola, Ogbooru, Giesi, Luwoo (female), Lumobi, Agbedegbede, Ojee-Lokunbirin, Lagunja, Larunka, Ademilu, Omogbogbo, Ajila-Oorun, Adejinle, Olojo, Okiti, Lugbade, Aribiwoso, Osinlade, Adagba, Ojigidiri (Lumbua), Akinmoyero (1770 � 1800), Gbanlare (1800 �1823), Gbegbaaja (1823 �1835), Wunmonije (1835 �1839), Adegunle Abewelo (1839 �1849), Degbinsokun (1849 � 1878), Oranyigba (1878 � 1880), Derin Ologbenla (1880 �1894), Adelekan Olubuse I (1894 �1910), Adekola (1910), Ademiluyi Ajagun (1910 �1930), Adesoji Aderemi (1930 � 1970), and the current Ooni Okunade Sijuwade Olubuse II, whose reign dates from 1980. Obviously, Oronmiyan, the first child and son of Oduduwa, did not inherit his father�s throne, which is the genesis of the quarrel between the true Oduduwa�s heirs and the Ooni�s dynasty.

Oduduwa�s eight children (as claimed by Yoruba historians), are known as the Obalades or crowned chiefs of Yorubaland. The argument is that not all Yoruba Obas have genuine crowns; only the Obalades are the exception and consist of the Alaafin of Oyo, the Oregun of Ile Ila, the Alake of Egbaland, the Owaoboku of Ijeshaland, the Alaketu of Ketu, the Owa of Ilesa and two Obas in the Republic of Benin as follows: the Onipopo of Popo and the Onisabe of Sabe. What this means in effect is that Yoruba civilization did not start in earnest until the reign of Oduduwa and his sons. All leading Yoruba historians agree on this.

In fact, we know that it was from early twelfth century that Ife grew into a large city surrounded by walls, inhabited mostly by farmers and some skilled craftsmen who created great works of arts respected around the world today. The famous Ife bronze, terracotta works, statues in baked clay, some representing the Ooni dressed in full regalia, are among the world�s greatest works of art. Some of the terracotta were so large and complex, it is impossible to bake them today even with modern technology. All these date back to the eleventh century CE.

Because Ogun, the first Ooni after the demise of Oduduwa, was not Oduduwa�s child, he was not considered an Obalade by Yoruba tradition and elite. Ogun was a chief with spiritual responsibilities. He usurped the Ife throne because the true heirs to the throne were busy else where at the time of their father�s death. Ogun out maneuvered the children of Oduduwa over the Ife throne with his superior knowledge of the inner working of the Ooni�s palace, and his spiritual prowess as the head of the Ogun shrine. Oduduwa�s true heirs have been smarting over this ever since.

Chief Obafemi Awolowo, the Premier of the Western Region of Nigeria in the early sixties, strengthened the hands of the Oonis, and facilitated their prominence in Yorubaland by appointing Oba Adesoji Aderemi, the Ooni of Ife at the time, as the first Governor of the now defunct Western Region of Nigeria. Oba Adesoji Aderemi�s ascendance was consolidated with his Chairmanship of the Western Region�s Council of Obas that at the time entrapped the Edo Oba. With such immense political power of his own, and the political influence and authority of Awolowo as the leader of the Yoruba, no one could raise a finger against the supposed illegitimacy of the Ooni�s dynasty in Yorubaland. The Bini, of course, were worst hit as a voiceless minority in Awolowo�s Western Region�s politics of tribal exclusion and domination.

The Oduduwa lineage tried to fight back by identifying with the NPN in opposition to the UPN. Awolowo accentuated the schism by promoting the emergence of Bode Thomas, a young and dynamic lawyer from Oyo. Bode, with Awolowo�s clout, wielded considerable political power in Oyo to the point of being rude to the Alaafin, who was alleged to have put a curse on him. Bode became mad to the chagrin of Awolowo, who promptly banished the Alaafin from his Oyo throne. Just as the Oduduwa�s legitimate heirs and the Yoruba elite generally, have always known and concealed the quarrel over the Ife throne, the Bini have always known their history and borne the pains of not being able to act on it because Chief Awolowo was unassailable and had turned the Ooni dynasty into a colossus to cow all opposition.

Another way of confirming Oduduwa�s 1200 CE demise date in Ife, is to look into the famous account of valour during Oduduwa�s reign when an external invasion by the Igbos from the East took place. The record can easily be traced and Moremi�s courage came to the fore at the time for sacrificing her life for the safety of her people. From 1200 CE to 2004 CE is only 804 years, so the Yoruba should stop deceiving themselves that Oduduwa dropped from the skies at the beginning of time or that Ife is the �source� of the universe. Ife is �Uhe,� meaning Oduduwa�s re-birth, or successful re-location from Bini land of his ancestors.

Where did Oduduwa come from in Yoruba myth?

The Yoruba story about Oduduwa is extremely thin on substance. What we have is wrapped largely in myths, parables, and folktales. In fact, the most generous way to describe the story is that the Yoruba do not know anything about their highly revered progenitor. Oduduwa himself left a tell tale evidence of his ancestry in his lifetime. He reserved a special seat in his palace for his ancestors, which only the Bini monarch can sit on even now. No other human, whether Arab, Eskimo, Alaafin, Ooni, or Yoruba, (bleached or not), can sit on the seat. Despite this vivid evidence that has survived through the centuries, some Yoruba historians still claim that he was from somewhere in Arabia.

Any place from Egypt to Lebanon to Iraq to Saudi Arabia has been mentioned, and the Yoruba professors� strongest proof of Oduduwa�s Arabian ancestry so far is that he was light in complexion. This may have influenced some heirs of Oduduwa, who have been accused of serious attempt at bleaching. The �light� in complexion argument could place Oduduwa�s origin any where in the world from Edo, to China, to Britain, to Mexico, but who dares fault our professors who passed their exams on European history? The Saudi Arabian origin theory is not popular with the Ijebus who erroneously claim Wadai as their roots. Those linking Oduduwa with Iraq claim that he descended from Lamurudu (the Nimrod of Babylon�s myth). Nimrod was not an historical figure but a myth constructed from the life image of Ausar, the god of the Chaldeans, who invaded and colonized Persia from 4000 BCE. In any case, is it not dishonest to try to link 6000-year-old ancestry with 900-year-old personalities, without authentic and verifiable historical documents or DNA test? You can deceive the illiterate with myths but Nigerians are becoming more and more educated now.


http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl?md=read;id=2312

9jacrip:
The Oduduwa Yoruba/Benin struggle can be easy settled:

tonychristopher please answer these of get Benin folks to answer them -

Oranmiyan founded Benin Monarchy and till infinity, elements of Yoruba kingship system will remain, how come any trace(s) of Ogiso system was not introduced by Ekaledahern since he introduced a unified political system in Ife. Moreover, Benin influence abound in Eko kingship (not Idejo kingship).

Oduduwa came to Ife with a number of things that remain in the palace today (the Are crown worn at olojo festival inclusive, was this what Ogiso folks wore?); they should list what items ekaledahern; a prisoner who was stripped off his status and escaped via bush parts stole or left with from Benin and brought to Ife.

Oduduwa introduced some rituals which are done by Oduduwa devotees in Ife till infinity, was ekaledahern an awo/a priest, either yes or no, how come the processes of these rituals and chants has no Benin elements in them?

oluamid:


Well, I'm not too keen on whose land is what. I'm only responding to the assertion that the Ilajes are a subset of the Ijaws. I believe everyone tells their history in their own favour. I'm sure the Ilaje will also have a different account of how they came about the land.

Whatever the case may be though, the fact is both of these people can be found in the coastal area of Ondo state. I rest my case.

A Benin Account of the Origin of Oduduwa

Many centuries ago, at the time when Benin was called Igodomingodo, that geographical area now known as Benin, was the hub of a conglomeration of little towns that developed or spread into most of the areas of modern Bendel State. Throughout that period, lgodomingodo made steady progress especially in the areas of spiritual, philosophical and administrative development. Its efforts were largely concentrated on the arrangement of human order so that by the time Europeans made contact with the people of Benin in the 15th century, they had already established an administrative system which, till this day, baffled the Europeans and earned for the Capital of this "far flung" African country, the appellation "City". The nucleus of this great civilization was the monarchy which the Binis perfected around the 18th century when, after a series of experimentation with the Ogiso, and some of the past-Ogiso Obas, they introduced a monarchical system that is based on the principle of primogeniture, beginning with Ewuakpe, about 1712 A. D.

From the days of Owodo until now, the system of direct ascension has endured making the Benin Royal family one of the oldest families in Africa. It's history spans more than 800 years. Benin City remains today as conservative as it ever was. Shifting slowly, sometimes uneasily, under the pressures or demands of modernity, Benin recognizes that all living organisms (including states and cities) change. That change has reduced to mere historical fact the political influence Benin exercised over places such as Eko (Lagos) which she founded at the time of Oba Orhogbua (about 1550 A.D.) Ghana, Dahomey, both across the borders of modern Nigeria; Onitsha on the Niger and many other places such as Asaba, Agbor, lssele-Uku, Warri, ldah etc. Many of these towns actually owe their corporate existence to Benin. Since inter-action between African kingdoms began around the 14th century, Benin found herself in a unique geographic position by occupying mid -way between what the early Europeans referred to as the "Yoruba country" and the "lbo country". This proximity to the two areas no doubt broadened the outlook of the Binis in later years.

Quite tolerant and receptive of other ideas and norms, it is no wonder that today both the Eastern and 'Western neighbors of Benin have exercised a considerable influence on her socio-political life. The influence of the Yoruba is more felt. This is so because after about 800 years of intercourse both cultures had to rub off on each other. Thus, while the Binis have accepted many Yoruba gods, the Yoruba on the other hand accepted several of the socio-political reforms introduced by the Binis.

Contact with the Yoruba was made quite accidentally by Ekaladerhan, the son of the last Ogiso, who was banished in the 12th century. After wandering in the jungles for several years, he showed up in a town. Hitherto, neither Ekaladerhan, nor the people on whom he stumbled were aware of the existence of other people on earth than those that belonged to their immediate environment. To the people therefore, Ekaladerhan must be a god, a forest god; especially as they discovered him in the jungle. He was adept in hunting and he understood the habits of animals to an astonishing degree. These facts, no doubt put mystique on his being and his personality. By a twist of Fate, Ekaladerhan who was banished by his own people had been accepted by a people who stumbled on him in the forest. He was brought into town where he married one of them and lived to a ripe old age.

When his father Owodo was himself banished for ordering the execution of a pregnant woman, Evian was appointed administrator. But he sought to appoint Ogiamien his son as his successor. The move was resisted by the Bini and that gave rise to political strife and anarchy. A search party was then sent to look for the long-banished Prince and the trail inevitably ended at Uhe where Ekaladerhan had established. Alas, He was a very old man. So, even if he wished to grant the delegation's plea to return home, he was not physically capable of undertaking such a hazardous journey. But he allowed his son Oronmiyan, who had volunteered, to go with the delegation. Oronmiyan arrived around 1200 A.D. He fathered Eweka the first. Oba Erediauwa, is the 38th king of the Edo by this direct line of succession from Eweka the first.

http://ntotan..com/2013/03/a-benin-account-of-origin-of-oduduwa.html


PLEASE READ THIS VERSION OF ODUDUWA

Am I the only one here who thinks Tonychristopher should stop already with his long copy-and-paste posts and his circuitous no-point arguments?

I respect the patience of the few folks here who have patiently and civilly been engaging him all this while.