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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State (70766 Views)
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Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by NigerMan1: 4:55pm On May 05, 2015 |
nairaman66: nairaman66 - normally discourse that border on HISTORY should be pure academic and scholarly work, that all should enjoy. However the Yorubas has stripped this all important factors when our collective history is brought to the fore. They simply REJECT it forgetting that history is DIFFERENCE from Dogma. They inadvertently CONCOCT stories for themselves and weaved others into it. And it's so bad when facts, figures and statistics are brought against their story, they kick and insult. Unfortunately, this trend has become part of their culture so much so that they applied this to even non-vital issues. For example, do you remember that in the late 60s down to late 70s, the Yorubas used the media to spread several unsubstantiated stories such as they are the most EDUCATED groups in Nigeria? They are the first to study in the Universities? That they have more graduates, PhD and Professors? It came to a head that Fani Kayode went national with this great LIES last year, which prompted many scholars to DISPEL those lies with HISTORICAL facts and dates. It was a big shame... 2 Likes |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by NigerMan1: 4:58pm On May 05, 2015 |
sukkot: sukkot - read the thread from the beginning to fully understand. That post was referring to the Olukinmi people - not the entire present day Yoruba people |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by tonychristopher: 4:59pm On May 05, 2015 |
Its not copy and paste it just references and its intellectual research so I will not go into hear say, I will give you facts with links brother...face the facts not written by me Wulfruna: |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by tonychristopher: 5:00pm On May 05, 2015 |
Some are feeling offended by my references that i am giving them, I support your intellectual approach to history, I hate fables and it shouldnt be peddled You did a good work NigerMan1: |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by NigerMan1: 5:05pm On May 05, 2015 |
Omoluyi: Omoluyi - my friend HISTORY is NOT a mystery that can be unraveled by sorcerers. Most of our past, fortunately are recorded by the Europeans (Portuguese, French, English, Germans etc) Many were recorded by Old kings, authorities and partners also in Africa such as the old Fulani Warriors and scholars. And the good news is that a great part of our history are still available in the ARCHIVES in these countries and beyond. Once you become history researcher, I tell you, no man will ever cheat you again. |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by Nobody: 5:06pm On May 05, 2015 |
I really would have loved to take on tonychristopher and kick some knowledge his way while decimating his fallacious claims but I have so much at hand right now. I'll check back later but for quick knowledge: 1. Neither you and your link have answered my Q. Oranmiyan left yoruba impact on benin and eko, how come oduduwa did not leave any Igodomigodo mark on Ife, no matter how minute? 2. The Ooni dysnasty is from Lajamisan who was a son of Oranmiyan. 3. Your first post in response to mine stated art works of Ooni dating as far back as 11th Century yet your post to Olumide states that Ekalederhen supposedly got to Ife at 12th Century - how come figures of Ooni dating as far back as 11th C had been in existence before the Ekalederhen, the supposed founder of Ooniship got to Ife at 12th c? Did you read your posts at all? 4. The 12th C mentioned in your posts as Ekalederhen's contact and Ife growing into a city was rather the period the potsherd pavements of Ooni Luwo (female Ooni) was dated to and she was the 21st Ooni of Ife. This goes to show your Benin history posts are very fallacious. 5th. There was never any Benin empire link with Ghana, Togo and Dahomey as stated in your posts. Let me stop here but before I go, it is apparent you're poor with history and also your twisted and anti Yoruba bigoted mind has rendered your killed your to discern between facts and errors. I'll be back. 2 Likes |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by tonychristopher: 5:13pm On May 05, 2015 |
Throwing more light, Akenzua said: “I also read in that interview by the Ooni that the Oba of Benin used to be buried in Ife. One will ask: Where do they get all that information? I was surprised when I heard that story in Benin here. The truth of it is that if there is anything out of it, it will be in difference to Ife, which was formally known as Uhe, where Ekaladerhan had lived and Ekaladerhan’s son who became the Oba here (Benin). It was only possible that they may like their body being interred in Uhe or Ife or wherever. But if the Ooni of Ife made reference to it, it does not prove anything. To us it does not prove that Benin is Yoruba or that Yoruba is Benin.” On the story that the Benin people went to Ife to ask for a king, Akenzua asked, “How can a group of people you do not know before just come to you and demand for a king and you will just give your eldest son to them – to go to the land you don’t know to be their king? Simple reasoning will tell you that it is not true. So when they say that Oramiyan’s son was the first Ooni of Ife, I always ask them: Which one of them?” Akenzua further dismissed the claim that modern Benin is trying to rewrite history. Describing the allegation as funny, he went on to say: “Tell them that they should stop mixing myth with reality. Benin also have their myth of creation. But when we talk about Ekaladerhan, we are not talking myth. We are talking about something that actually happened. As you will see in this book (raises a book entitled, Ekaladerhan), up to today there are stories and songs done in honour of Ekaladerhan here in Benin. There are villages named after him where he was to be killed. That village is still there for people to see.” Following the reference to his generation of the Benin royal family court seeking to rewrite history, Akenzua, a London-trained linguist, psychologist and journalist, laughed. He alleged that the Ooni of Ife was quoted in an interview as saying that the present Oba of Benin holds an incorrect position in the tale of the Yoruba-Benin history while his predecessor, the late Oba Akenzua II presented a differing, correct account which the current generation is trying to put aside. The prince said that is not true. “For me, since he did not say the version of the account that is correct and the one that is not, we will not be too forward. But one would have expected that in discussing a situation like this, that would have been an appropriate time for him to come out with what he said Oba Akenzua said and the other statements that is not correct so that people can know which one is the truth. But according to this newspaper, Oba Akenzua made that statement when he was going to commission WADECO, a car company probably owned by the Ooni in Ife. My father was very happy that a new company is coming to Benin. It is very unlikely that my father will take that occasion and be talking about history of Yoruba and Benin. I have the privilege of being a private secretary to my father. I am aware that all the speeches he made everywhere, the records are available. So we are waiting. Whenever the Ooni publishes what my father said at a time, we will be able to relate it to what we have here. But until that is done, that statement by the Ooni will be looked into.” www.google.ca/search?client=opera&q=oduduwa+the+benin+prince&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#q=oduduwa+the+benin+prince&start=20 http://www.edo-nation.net/erediauwa1.htm 9jacrip: |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by NigerMan1: 5:16pm On May 05, 2015 |
NigerMan1: |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by NigerMan1: 5:20pm On May 05, 2015 |
fineguy11: fineguy11 - sorry if you feel offended by that. I never intended to hurt anyone, not even when Yorubas were hurling insults at me, did I replied in kind. However the truth remain what I wrote. Maybe I should say they married them and many of the Fulanis descendants are today Yorubas in the part of the country. |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by NigerMan1: 5:33pm On May 05, 2015 |
babyfaceafrica: babyfaceafrica - it is not as bad as you think. Most of the African historical past were well recorded, both within and Internationally. A great deal of our past can be sourced from many European archives. For example, the Great Benin Empire and it's history were recorded since around 800-900 AD. The reason you complain about was birthed by Yorubas - deliberate DISTORTION of history for tribal control of present day Yorubas for POLITICAL collateral. They wrote and canvassed history as a vehicle of Ego tripping, while running others down. Then when you challenge their claims with facts, figures and statistics they start abusing or raining gutter languages at you. Therefore, the Benin history is not distorted, even many Igbos are happy to trace their ancestry to other places and tribes. For example, many years ago, the Great Zik of Africa (Dr Nnamdi Azikwe) traced the Origin of the Onitsha people to Benin and gladly revealed this in his book. Some other eminent Igbos have the same. In other words, the Onitsha people have Benin ancestry but they are IGBO. 1 Like |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by babyfaceafrica: 5:42pm On May 05, 2015 |
NigerMan1:so in other words just because historical facts are documented ,I must belive them? Don't you know those sore called documented historical facts were passed orally cos you an I know literacy didn't start early in Nigeria? Now what of if these people distorted the information been passed down due to amnesia ? There is a limit to what you can remember? Another thing is that just because people don't have fact does not mean what they say is false. I did literature in higher institution and I know some of all these historical facts have different versions..the one you choose to belive is on you.let's us just accept we come from one source God and move on..history has its deficinecies...God bless |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by tonychristopher: 5:44pm On May 05, 2015 |
YOUR FUNNY BUT I LOVE YOUR MATURITY NigerMan1: |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by tonychristopher: 5:45pm On May 05, 2015 |
SO IN EFFECT WHAT AFRE YOU SAYING, TRYING TO DISPROVE BENIN VERSION FOR IFE VERSION IF I WERE YOU, STUDY THEM OBJECTIVELY, DETACH YOUR EMOTION AND TRY FILL IN THE GAPS, i have seen the gaps but i will want you to fill em up bro babyfaceafrica: |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by babyfaceafrica: 5:54pm On May 05, 2015 |
tonychristopher:if yyou don't mind send me the link..ok |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by NigerMan1: 6:01pm On May 05, 2015 |
omokab: omokab - each time you guys openly write about others, no one accuse of hatred. I know Yorubas generally have been brought up to never question folklores and fables you're told. You wrote: "Somebody said they migrated from owo in ondo state he was still arguing blindly..." Let me inform you that true facts of history cannot never be gleaned from the old people. You only need to get some clue because people naturally, out of personal pride, do not want to openly admit that their forefathers were captured as slaves. Moreover, we don't need the Olukumi people to tell us how they finally settled on that land. Their journey to that place were RECORDED. You wrote: "I can't blame him,his people can't trace their origin..." It seems you're mixing things up here, because this is one of popular lines I hear Yoruba parent tell their children. Sorry my dear, am not Igbo. And let me assure you that from my vantage position as history researcher, almost every tribes in Nigeria love to trace their ancestry. It's only you Yorubas who'd been subconsciously trained to close your heart from asking about your ancestry. The general LIES you all were fed was ODUDUWA was our father. In present day Yorubalnad you have many dozens of tribes such as Ijebu, Egba, Ekiti, Ijesha, Awori, Ogbomosho, etc. And within these tribes, are many clans, with diverse physique, attitude, languages and origin. Now - how many of you have the gut to ask these questions: >> What is the origin of my father? >> Where exactly did my father migrated from? >> Where were they, say 300 years, 550 years ago? >> How did my fathers got to this place? >> Why did my original language so differ from Oyo language? >> When was the name/word "Yoruba" used to group us together? You wrote: "But his hatred could not allow him to ask the total population of yorubas in Benin compared to the entire yoruba people in only in the south west Please stop saying I have hatred for you. Bro I can't fathom why you guys always punch one on the face with unsubstantiated story and later claimed being hated, after showing you facts and figure? When you talked about Yoruba population versus Benin - this sound very, very funny. Please we are NOT talking about TODAY - but the old past. The period under scrutiny, there were no Yoruba as you have it today. The biggest Empire, for most part was Benin, which the Portuguese attested to. The word 'Yoruba' was first used to apply and grouped all people who spoke similar language as the Oyo in the mid 19th Century. You wrote: "The only culture they have is how to make money from event like wedding. Also he should tell us how is tribe is from jews" What exactly do you mean by this statement? 2 Likes |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by NigerMan1: 6:08pm On May 05, 2015 |
emmatok: emmatok - can you show mew where people said this on this thread? 1 Like |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by pazienza(m): 6:12pm On May 05, 2015 |
NigerMan1: Onitsha are Igbos, whose Igbo ancestors once resided in Bini. Residing in Bini is not the same thing as having a Bini ancestry. A man with Ezechime as a name in Bini, can only have an Igbo ancestry. 1 Like |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by tonychristopher: 6:13pm On May 05, 2015 |
i have sent so many links on benin ife version and we have tried so that we can find the nexus babyfaceafrica: |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by NigerMan1: 6:13pm On May 05, 2015 |
Pero009: Pero009 - sorry I think you''re one guilty of vagueness. If you follow the thread from the beginning and when I came into the discourse, you will realize I was not referring to entire Yoruba - but Olukumi |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by tonychristopher: 6:22pm On May 05, 2015 |
The onitsha are ibo and Eze chime is an Igbo that Sojourned in Benin fell out with the locals came back THE NAME EZE CHIMA IS AN IGBO NAME pazienza: 1 Like |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by Nobody: 6:34pm On May 05, 2015 |
tonychristopher: It makes sense that you buttress your points with references but in History/for hustorians, we often seive theough subjective and objective claims - what you, my friend posted up are from highly subjective sources. Claim of Oduduwa is highly debated and it will take a ground breaking core research to pin point the answer but hey, as a historian, one can critique works from both sides of the divide, query them and derive pointers which could be used as a ladder to depths of the topic. The writer said 'how could people demand for king from a strange land and they send the eldest son lf the king'. 1. The same presmise is applicable to ekalederhen. How could he head for a town they were strange to (yet called Uhe), then become king (there will be language disparity) yet welcomed - how could he have been able tp rule his subject whose language he did not speak? Plus, Ife was not a single entity at this period, it was made up of different hamlets with its leaders. Oduduwa formed alliance with some of these leaders, how was he able to talk them into alliance? 2. The ekalederhen was to have been killed but roamed the forest for many years - how did they know hw roamed and did not die in the forest? Did he leave artefacts or traces in the bush paths for them to have known? I do not think so. Ife history said Oduduwa came with Ade Aare (the crown Ooni wears once in a year), did Ogiso misplace their crown at this period? 3. The founder of one of the Igbomina towns (i can't recall the name right now) was said to have been a fellow migrant with Oduduwa but decided to stop and found his own town. The proof lies in art works found in this place dated to pre-date Ooniship by far. Did Ekalederhen leave Ogiso land with friends? 4. Did you notice the fraud in how the writer tried to downplay the fact that some benin kings were interred in Ife? A fact they have vehemently denied and still do? Let me pause. 2 Likes |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by Nobody: 6:42pm On May 05, 2015 |
tonychristopher: I do not even believe Eze Chime sojourned in Benin at any point, but at this stage this is still largely my personal opinion. |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by NigerMan1: 6:43pm On May 05, 2015 |
[quote author=hotwax post=33431788] Guy thats what they teach you in school. Arabs teach their children "They are the owner of Jerusalem", it doesnt mean Arabs own Jerusalem. Everyone teach history from a favourable perspective, it doesnt mean its true. Yorubas are Yorubas, Oduduwa is not from Benin, Okanbi is not from Benin. We only have few things in common. The only cultural similaries can be seen in Ile-Ife alone. Because Ife son becomes Oba of Benin, so he went there with Ife costumes. Have you seen core Yoruba cultures? Its nothing of Benin. No similarities, Yorubas are a different set of people, very unique. The IFA, the talking drum, Kijipa e.t.c....we are too big to come from that small benin. Ofcourse we had political marriages. Its like Fulani people claiming Yorubas are descendant of Fulanis. Because we have intermarried and live together in Ilorin...Thats just political influence...Ilorin is not the source of Yorubas.... Get that into your skull You wrote: "Guy thats what they teach you in school. Arabs teach their children "They are the owner of Jerusalem", it doesnt mean Arabs own Jerusalem. Everyone teach history from a favourable perspective, it doesnt mean its true." Am happy you admitted you're taught history from "favourable perspective" and that "it doesnt mean its true". Am happy that you, a Yoruba person openly admitted that your Yoruba history were written to favor you - and that they re NOT true. Now you admitted you Yorubas wrote a complete FRAUD and called history due to political position. However you missed it by GENERALIZING that fraud. Bro I repeat, am careful about what I wrote here; every sentence I posted about Yoruba are available in the archives for you to investigate. You wrote: "Yorubas are Yorubas, Oduduwa is not from Benin, Okanbi is not from Benin. We only have few things in common. The only cultural similaries can be seen in Ile-Ife alone. Because Ife son becomes Oba of Benin, so he went there with Ife costumes" Now you suddenly slipped into the same age-old fallacious fables and folktales of the Yorubas, without a single facts to it. Or have you forgotten you admitted that "Everyone teach history from a favourable perspective, it doesnt mean its true.?" Again, when you say "Yorubas are Yorubas" what exactly do you mean? > Why don't you all bear YORUBA then? > Why do you have Ekitis, Ijesha, Awori, Akure, Ijebu, Egba and so several hundreds of clans? > Why was the Oyo Kindgom of the olden days not called "Yoruba Kingdom?" > Why was the Kiriji war not called or labeled as Yoruba war? You wrote: Have you seen core Yoruba cultures? Its nothing of Benin. No similarities, Yorubas are a different set of people, very unique." Haa this is serious. You mean there are CORE Yoruba culture and non-core Yoruba? So you have 'original culture' and counterfeit" You wrote: "Its nothing of Benin. No similarities, Yorubas are a different set of people, very unique." why are you doubling yourself? In one breadth, you claim the King of Benin came from Ife, in another you said "No similarities..." Moreover which part of present day Yorubaland are referring to? Remember there are hundreds of UNIQUENESS in Yorubaland - from Ekiti, to Ondo, to Awori to Ijebu - have cultural practices that differ to the other, by 360 Degree. You Wrote: "The IFA, the talking drum, Kijipa e.t.c....we are too big to come from that small benin. Ofcourse we had political marriages. Its like Fulani people claiming Yorubas are descendant of Fulanis. Because we have intermarried and live together in Ilorin...Thats just political influence...Ilorin is not the source of Yorubas...." Stop being funny and face pure historical facts and ancestry - not this empty social chest beating about population and being big which is a sign of poverty found among black people. Nobody brought Ilorin to the discourse, and please stop diverting the critical points in my posts. 1 Like |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by tonychristopher: 6:49pm On May 05, 2015 |
Radoillo: and EZE Chime isn't a benin name either |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by NigerMan1: 6:56pm On May 05, 2015 |
[quote author=hotwax post=33432349] Now let me finish you off with your scam history. This is a cue from wikipedia. If wikipedia is wrong, you can take your case up with them. You benin people and Igbo always want to claim to own Yoruba land. And this corrupt and scamming attitude will be met with stiff resistance. Fulanis want to claim Yoruba land, Igbo, Now Benin tomorrow who knows if its Ijaw. Now read the following and shut up..... ========================================= hotwax - please hold your breadth, you have no much to prove. That you brought a wikipedia to prove some points show you lack the knowledge about wikipedia. Wiki are public magazine open to editing and entry by peopple. Am a Wikipedia editor and have friends who also are. That story on Wikipedia was edited by a Yoruba fellow. So my bro, do not bring such limited story into a serious discussion as this. Moreover you're trying to DIVERT the principal of this thread into 'claiming Lagos..." God forbid that I claim Lagos, however let it be known to you, that Lagos was once conquered and ruled by Benin King, during the reign of Oba Orhogbua. He then installed a Benin prince and some chiefs. Till today, the Oba of Lagos have Benin Ancestry, and the chiefs families are still in Lagos till today. Do you know the popular OBANIKORO family in Lagos? Their father was one of the Chiefs installed by Benin king. That means also that Obanikoro have Benin ancestry - but are Yorubas. Please read about old Lagos on the Lagos State website here: http://www.lagosstate.gov.ng/pagelinks.php?p=8 Please note that a good part of that article were deliberately distorted, however because those years were recorded, it's been very difficult for your people to vanish it. |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by NigerMan1: 7:04pm On May 05, 2015 |
whitecat1: whitecat1 - Please read this article about the history of Lagos on the Lagos State official werbsite: http://www.lagosstate.gov.ng/pagelinks.php?p=8 |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by NigerMan1: 7:13pm On May 05, 2015 |
hotwax: hotwax - you obviously did not know history beyond the CONCLAVE you're taught. I can see you stand on your little world and judge other's history from the beautiful mythologies and fables you were fed with from cradle. This account why you regard as sacrilege when the story of your so-called Oduduwa and his 7 sons are challenged and scrutinized. You Yorubas should come out to tell us you have DOGMA - not history. |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by Nobody: 7:22pm On May 05, 2015 |
[quote author=NigerMan1 post=33450310][/quote] Lagos was never conquered by Benin but there was military occupation. Oba of Eko was only Oba of Eko (Lagos Island) and his power does not extend beyond it. There is Iru run by Oniru There is Ikate run by Elegushi There is Ijora and Apapa run by Ojora There is Oto run by Oloto There is Ikoyi run by Onikoyi There is Ajiran run by Oba Ojomu And so on who own lagos lands and run them accordingly. 2 Likes |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by TonySpike: 7:25pm On May 05, 2015 |
9jacrip:Educate them, bro. These guys are just revisionists. 2 Likes |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by NigerMan1: 7:28pm On May 05, 2015 |
stinggy: stinggy - can you please tell us why those "few misguided ones will refute" being Yoruba? Am sure you're not Awori, so why must you insist? I can tell you that until the you guys started fighting and claiming "Lagos is Yorubland" immediately after the 3rd mainland bridge was commissioned in 1990 Babangida, most yorubaland people use to (and still) hate the Awoiris with perfect hatred. Many people from Oyo, Ogun and Oshun regarded the Aworis as aliens. 2 Likes |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by Nobody: 7:31pm On May 05, 2015 |
TonySpike: Their revisionism has become so irritating in that it adds zilch to knowledge, it only makes one wonder if they ever take the time to read what they've typed or listen to themselves. The height of it was attributing Ife to Igbo by coining Ugbo in present day Ondo to mean Igbo. The funny part is they are not even bothered about their own history at all. 1 Like |
Re: Facts About The Yoruba Enclave In The Heart Of Aniocha In Delta State by Nobody: 7:35pm On May 05, 2015 |
NigerMan1: Do you even know the etymology of 'Awori'? Do you know Ogunfunminire? There's a difference between being ignorant of a lie or false claims and use of deductive reasoning. If some folks make or made wild claims of Awori not being Yoruba then out your deductive reasoning to use, should it be so hard? |
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