TonySpike:
I suspect Nigerman1 and tonychristopher are one and the same person. I personally don't trust tonychristopher's antecedents on this forum for a start. He goes unstable at topics regarding Yoruba history; he takes it on himself to determine issues of Yoruba history

tonychristopher:
In actuality, the Egun and Awori people are not yoruba. Their language is Egun which is similar to Ewe language spoken in Benin and parts of Togo. The Egun and Awori language is more 'eweid' than 'Yorubaid'. Some Egun people speak Yoruba just as Okrika people speak Igbo but are not Igbo.
The Aworis claim early link with Benin, however, they are Yorubas in today's Nigerian context.

Many Ijebus dont also believe in Oduduwa thing, I have one as my neighbour here, sometimes he doesnt even see himself as a yoruba he prefers to be called ijebu and this dude is educated. He has his reasons and I respect him

illiad1:


I have also read some of those books which I mistakenly lost. There was a day we held an argument about first settlers in lagos. I was telling them that I had actually read somewhere in a book by some whitemen telling that lagos was actually first occupied and ruled by benin kingdom. I even went further to ask them what Eko means in yoruba language and none of them could answer because its a benin language. And I told them that there are many lagos names that are not yoruba and have no meaning in yoruba language. Its just so unfortunate they easily result to insults whenever they lack facts to support their lies.

MrPresident1:


[b]This is revisionist nonsense laced with half truths and outright lies.

The 'Yoruba' are an agglomeration of tribes who have found an identity under the banner of Oduduwa. Oduduwa met people on ground when he arrived Ile-ife, these were the aboriginal people whom he probably conquered and assimilated. Oduduwa came from the East. Oduduwa is not a single person, Oduduwa was the banner under which Israelites fleeing Roman persecution following the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD arrived the land space of South Western Nigeria. Under the banner of Oduduwa was also the Bini, referred to as one of the sons of Oduduwa.

'Yorubaland' is peopled by lineage Israel, and aboriginal grafted tribes. Everyone has accepted the Banner of Oduduwa.

The Ogiso dynasty was said to have been formed by 'Kings from the sky' Oduduwa was said to be their last child, and they ruled at Igodomigodo, the question to you, Nigerman1, is, where is Igodomigodo, is it the site of the present Benin? By relating the oral histories of the Bini, and the oral histories of Oduduwa, one comes to the conclusion that the Bini are Oduduwa, because Oduduwa was not a single individual, and 'kings from the sky' describes Israel before she fell. Forget the nonsensical later day tale of a certain prince Izoduwa. I am sure the lion that just entered the Savannah bush will be receiving rebukes from his forebears now for allowing the distortion of history under his watch.

Osahon Naiwu the pseudo intellectual historian is the source of the distortion of the relationship between children of the same mother.

Sukkot, I wrote this for you. Nigerman1, you need to stop your hatred for Yoruba, I have gone through your posts. You cannot win.

Lion in the savannah is the code for Oba of Benin.[/b]

stinggy:


History is meant to have loopholes since there are many tellers.
I haven't read so much about Eguns (though I believe they are Yorubas until I read a convincing counter), Ilajes are purely Yorubas, you can ask Olugbo of Ugboland - Obateru Akinruntan why he is trying to build gaps between all Yoruba kings.

stinggy:


Ilajes are Yorubas who found their selves surrounded by Ijaws just like the Olukumis in Aniocha. Itsekiri drew their language from Ilaje, with a mix of Ijebu, Bini and Portuguese.
There was a guy that visited Ilaje/Ese-odo community and shared his findings on NL sometime ago (can't vividly remember the title). He confirmed this through the findings he got from the natives.

It is noteworthy too to point out that there are various dialects of Yoruba language which when spoken, an average Yoruba Ajumolo (central yoruba) might find difficult to understand, Egun, Ilaje and so many others belong to this group. But for easier communication between the Yorubas, a central Yoruba was adopted (Yoruba Oyo).

NigerMan1:


stinggy - can you please tell us why those "few misguided ones will refute" being Yoruba? Am sure you're not Awori, so why must you insist? I can tell you that until the you guys started fighting and claiming "Lagos is Yorubland" immediately after the 3rd mainland bridge was commissioned in 1990 Babangida, most yorubaland people use to (and still) hate the Awoiris with perfect hatred. Many people from Oyo, Ogun and Oshun regarded the Aworis as aliens.

NigerMan1:


stinggy - don't confuse the 21st century happening with ANCESTRY. From all available record, the Ilajes ancestry is 100% from Oyo. As for the Olugbo King, yes, that alignment is merely political and does not change their ancestry, which is partly link to Benin.

hotwax:


Yorubas dont lament about Igbo in Lagos. Yorubas love Igbo in Lagos.

The saying "Lagos is no man's land" get yorubas angry. We want everybody in Lagos. We welcome people on our lands.

1. Lagos is somebody's Land (Igbo always contest this)
2. You can't come from your village and interfere in our politics. Yorubas never do that. Yorubas dont claim to own somebody else's land. We know our boundaries as visitors.

ziddy:


You are not just wrong, you're also ignorant.

the Aworis had been in Lagos from time, but they were fishermen and and farmers. Bini warriors came (by sea, mind you) amd subdued the coastal areas, specifically the islands, where they established their war camp (Eko).

Nowenuse:
Pls let us all forget all these "Eguns are not yorubas", "Olukwumi are not igbo", "so so are not so so" and bla bla bla.
The truth is that in the Nigerian context of today, ppl are free to choose wherever they want to belong to a large extent.

There are some groups who may choose a certain identity just for political convenience but that does not really mean that is who they are originally.

Left for me, i'd say Eguns are not yorubas because in their language alphabets, they have the letter V and Letter Z intonatitons in their language and this is something almost all other yoruba dialects lack.
But it is up to the Eguns to decide who they want to be, if they say they prefer to be identified as Yorubas and the other Yorubas accept them, fine, who are others to speak against this??

Same thing goes for the Aworis, Olukumis and all others. There is freedom of association to a large extent i think.

Just like Itsekiris who sometimes they will claim they are Yorubas and most other times they will reject. During the time of the Old regional system of govt, Itsekiris were identifying with the Yorubas just for political convenience and this helped them because Awolowo favoured the Itsekiris over the other Western minority groups, but today u will hardly see Itsekiris claiming to be Yorubas.

tonychristopher:
Some are feeling offended by my references that i am giving them, I support your intellectual approach to history, I hate fables and it shouldnt be peddled


You did a good work

NigerMan1:


MrPresident1 - I love your post, however true and genuine intellectual don't claim opposing views as hatred. You pretend not to know that your fellow Yorubas constantly draw the first blood?

You wrote: "This is revisionist nonsense laced with half truths and outright lies.

The 'Yoruba' are an agglomeration of tribes who have found an identity under the banner of Oduduwa. Oduduwa met people on ground when he arrived Ile-ife, these were the aboriginal people whom he probably conquered and assimilated. Oduduwa came from the East. Oduduwa is not a single person, Oduduwa was the banner under which Israelites fleeing Roman persecution following the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD arrived the land space of South Western Nigeria. Under the banner of Oduduwa was also the Bini, referred to as one of the sons of Oduduwa."

Oh, you claimed my post as revisionist? Why do you Yorubas see history as DOGMA? Why do you think or believe your so-called history is more complete than others? You wrote your history and trample upon the Old Benin hisotory and when you're challenged, you blurt out in anger, claiming facts and solid statistics as revisionism!

Now see the mumbo-jumbo you spewed above? Can you see that your version is only one of the over one DOZEN versions you have in Yorubaland, about Oduduwa? Which should we believe?

You wrote: "Osahon Naiwu the pseudo intellectual historian is the source of the distortion of the relationship between children of the same mother. Sukkot, I wrote this for you. Nigerman1, you need to stop your hatred for Yoruba, I have gone through your posts. You cannot win."

Aah, you described Osahon Naiwu, a first rate historian and scholar as "pseudo intellectual historian?" Can you see how you're brimming with hatred you just accused me of. If Osahon Naiwu is who you truly described him, then what/how would you described your Yoruba historians who fed you with those disjointed narrative you posted above?

Let me burst your bubble; Osahon Naiwu and many others (and me) basically relied on RECORDED history available since the 800 / 900 AD.

babyfaceafrica:
so in other words just because historical facts are documented ,I must belive them? Don't you know those sore called documented historical facts were passed orally cos you an I know literacy didn't start early in Nigeria? Now what of if these people distorted the information been passed down due to amnesia ? There is a limit to what you can remember? Another thing is that just because people don't have fact does not mean what they say is false. I did literature in higher institution and I know some of all these historical facts have different versions..the one you choose to belive is on you.let's us just accept we come from one source God and move on..history has its deficinecies...God bless

pazienza:


Onitsha are Igbos, whose Igbo ancestors once resided in Bini. Residing in Bini is not the same thing as having a Bini ancestry. A man with Ezechime as a name in Bini, can only have an Igbo ancestry.

tonychristopher:
The onitsha are ibo and Eze chime is an Igbo that Sojourned in Benin fell out with the locals came back


THE NAME EZE CHIMA IS AN IGBO NAME

9jacrip:


Lagos was never conquered by Benin but there was military occupation.

Oba of Eko was only Oba of Eko (Lagos Island) and his power does not extend beyond it.

There is Oniru run by Oniru

There is Ikate run by Elegushi

There is Ijora and Apapa run by Ojora

There is Oto run by Oloto

There is Ikoyi run by Onikoyi

There is Ajiran run by Oba Ojomu

And so on who own lagos lands and run them accordingly.

TonySpike:

Educate them, bro. These guys are just revisionists.

9jacrip:


Their revisionism has become so irritating in that it adds zilch to knowledge, it only makes one wonder if they ever take the time to read what they've typed or listen to themselves.

The height of it was attributing Ife to Igbo by coining Ugbo in present day Ondo to mean Igbo.

The funny part is they are not even bothered about their own history at all.

NigerMan1:


You need to CLARIFY who're referring to...

TonySpike:
I suspect Nigerman1 and tonychristopher are one and the same person. I personally don't trust tonychristopher's antecedents on this forum for a start. He goes unstable at topics regarding Yoruba history; he takes it on himself to determine issues of Yoruba history

TonySpike:
I suspect Nigerman1 and tonychristopher are one and the same person. I personally don't trust tonychristopher's antecedents on this forum for a start. He goes unstable at topics regarding Yoruba history; he takes it on himself to determine issues of Yoruba history

stinggy:


I will answer the part with a question too - why are some Ikwerre people claiming they are not Igbos? Simple - distortion of history!

There was never any hatred, it's just a normal Yoruba way of making jests, which you and I know. It is the same way omo eko will regard omo-oyo or omo ibadan as ara ilu oke. It's not hatred.

stinggy:


If Olugbo is Ijaw as posited by you people, wouldn't it make more political sense to flock with mainstream Ijaw kings and enjoy windfall, as the President is Ijaw too?

And take this correction; Ilaje's ancestry can be traced to Ife, not Oyo.

Radoillo:
I need to understand one little thing, NigerMan1. When you say Benin has recorded history going back to 800 - 900AD, what exactly do you mean? Do you mean there are written sources of Bini history that go back as far as those dates suggest, or are you alluding to some other source(s) of history other than written sources?

MrPresident1:


I have gone through all your posts Nigerman1, it is you who is full of bitterness toward the Yoruba for 'distorting' Benin history and 'claiming superiority' over other tribes. I dare you to go through your own posts again and give yourself a fair assessment. You are the one who is filled with bitterness.

I do not like to indulge in this kind or arguments because they throw up histories that divide rather than promote unity, but suffice it to say that Bini came from Oduduwa. Bini is one of the children of the woman who fled Roman persecution in the East. Yoruba history is not Dogma, if you dig deeper, you will encounter what you do not like, so for everyman who makes the discoveries, for the sake of peace, you either keep quiet, or surreptitiously point the way for the keen observer with true motives to come to the same deductions as you have come. I do not think, however, that you have the presence of mind or the trueness of intentions to make the deductions I speak of, because you are full of bitterness. see next paragraph.

In one breath you tell me you love my post, in another breath you call it mumbo jumbo, I hope you will objectively agree with me in my assessment of you, that you are someone whose mind is a mishmash of garbage. A littered mind, cluttered and disjointed with all kinds of rabble-rousing wosi-wosi. You and Naiwu are pseudo intellectual history revisionists, and you have jammed rock.

'Yoruba' and Bini should never have issues of superiority between them, because they are brothers. But later day historian-revisionists like you and Osahon Naiwu will stop at nothing to sever the cord of brotherhood.

9jacrip:


Ibos of course, I have no reason to be sneaky.

NigerMan1:


9jacrip - I put up a link to the Lagos State Governemnt website, yet you are refuting it?

You wrote: "Lagos was never conquered by Benin but there was military occupation."

Isn't this CONTRADICTING?

Then it means the article on the Lagos State Govt website is lying? Do you the Lagos aboriginal don't know their history? Okay my friend,

You wrote: "Oba of Eko was only Oba of Eko (Lagos Island) and his power does not extend beyond it."

You are trying to be CLEVER by half. So the Lagos first class King in the modern Era, you claim his power does not extend beyond Lagos Island? Funny you - what else can you say in the face POWERFUL facts and figures put before you?

You wrote: "There is Oniru run by Oniru etc"

Haba yoruba man, why all this trouble just to deface or devalue this HUGE historical fact? In the days we're talking about, those other kings you mentioned NEVER existed. The same Oba of Lagos who said Igbos should be exterminated, why didn't you guys told him he has no power beyond Lagos Island?

Prior to the Portuguese name of Lagos being adopted, Lagos was originally called Eko, which stems from either Oko (Yoruba: "cassava farm" or Eko ("war camp", by its Bini conquerors . History has it that the Oba of Bini sent various trade expeditions to Ghana where spices were traded and one of his traders complained about the way she was being treated by the Awori's. The Oba of Bini then sent a trade expedition by sea. Ironically, the leader of the expedition arrived in the evening at a time when the people who were predominantly fishermen were either wading into the water or getting into their boats to gather their catch. He declined to engage them further and returned to what is now called Benin City where he reported to the Oba of Bini that they were attacked. This prompted the Oba of Bini to constitute a war expedition led by Ado, a Bini Prince to go to Lagos and demand an explanation. This was over 650 years ago. However, on getting there, they were well received. The people were so enamored with Ado they asked him to stay and lead them. He agreed on the condition that they surrendered their sovereignty to the Oba of Bini to which they agreed. The Oba of Bini was told this and he gave his permission for the expedition to remain. The Oba of Bini later sent some of his chiefs including the Eletu Odibo, Obanikoro and others to assist Ado in the running of Eko. Till today, the Oba of Lagos is the head of all the Kings in Lagos State and his status is different from other Oba's most of whom were later given back their crowns and staff of office only within the last 40 years and have various classifications. Suffice it to state that those who got their crowns back were the original land owners. These were Olofin's children.

Until the coming of the Bini's, Lagos's geographic boundary was what is known now as Lagos Mainland. Lagos Island, the seat of the Oba of Lagos then consisted of a pepper farm and fishing posts. No one lived there though. The name Eko was given to it by its first King Oba Ado during its early history, it also saw periods of rule by the Kingdom of Benin. Eko was the land area now known as Lagos Island where the king's palace was built. The Palace is called Iga Idunganran which, translated means Palace built on the pepper farm. Oba Ado and the warriors from Benin as well as some of the indigenous people who sought safety settled down in the southern part of Eko called "Isale Eko", Isale literarily meaning bottom, but must have been used to indicate downtown (as in Downtown Lagos).

NigerMan1:



An NOT Igbo.