One day, a certain Arab man walked into a bar. As soon as he entered, he noticed a Jewish man sitting in the corner. So the Arab man walked over to the counter, removed his wallet and shouted, "Bar man! I am buying free drinks for everyone in this bar, except for that Jew man over there!" So the bar man collected the money from the Arab man and began serving free drinks to everyone in the bar, except to the Jewish man. However, instead of becoming upset, the Jewish man simply looked up at the Arab man and shouted, "Thank you!" This infuriated the Arab man. So once again, the Arab man took out his wallet and shouted, "Bar man! This time i am buying free drinks and food for everyone in this bar, except for that Jew man sitting in the corner over there!" So the bar man collected the money from the Arab man and began serving free food and drinks to everyone in the bar. When the bar man finished serving the food and drinks, once again, instead of becoming angry, the Jewish man simply smiled at the Arab man and shouted, "Thank you!" This made the Arab man furious. So he leaned over on the counter and said, "What is wrong with that Jew? I have bought food and drinks for everyone in this bar except for him, but instead of becoming angry, he just sits there and smiles at me and shouts, 'Thank you.' Is he mad?". The bar man smiled at the Arab man and said, "No, he is not mad. He is the owner of this bar." The Lord will use your enemies to prosper you in Jesus name, Amen!.

Amen oh......yes oh

This post reminds me how Matthew Mark and Luke copied source 'Q'. This is how the xtians created the NT.

@op. Check how many times this same post was put up on NL.

Abuamam:
This post reminds me [size=14pt]how Matthew Mark and Luke copied source 'Q'. This is how the xtians created the NT.[/size]

Yet Muslims can find the prophecy of Muhammad and Islam in these created NT books. Abi

You just like trolling on thread that doesn't even concern you.

@op. Check how many times this same post was put up on NL.

Any problem in re-creating old thread on Niaraland?

Emusan:


Yet Muslims can find the prophecy of Muhammad and Islam in these created NT books. Abi.

Really? Is it there? That shows that the 'Q' source might have retained a little truth then.
Don't blame me anyway. The 'Q' source is proven by your own scholars.

Emusan:

You just like trolling on thread that doesn't even concern you.

If there is anything I learnt from pentecostal xtians on NL, this is it.

Emusan:

Any problem in re-creating old thread on Niaraland?

Yes, if the thread is st.upid.

Abuamam:
Really? Is it there? That shows that the 'Q' source might have retained a little truth then.
Don't blame me anyway. The 'Q' source is proven by your own scholars.

We're not talking about scholars here.
Does NT prophecy the coming of Muhammad and Islam as many Muslim scholars have said? If yes! then anything you say about the NT BOOKS is against you. If No! then you can go further.

If there is anything I learnt from pentecostal xtians on NL, this is it.

Continue then since you learnt it here

Yes, if the thread is st.upid.

THREAD STU.PID

stale nonsense

Emusan:

We're not talking about scholars here.
Does NT prophecy the coming of Muhammad and Islam as many Muslim scholars have said? If yes! then anything you say about the NT BOOKS is against you. If No! then you can go further.

Lol. Not everything is black OR white. There are different shades of grey. The NT is probably one of them; mostly sand, but with a little garri mixed in (you know, the part about the prophecy).

The large amount of sand makes it unpalatable sha. In any case, which Muslim told you that Islam relies on the corrupt NT prophecying our prophet (saw)? We KNOW that this news is in the original gospel preached by Prophet Isa (Jesus if you like).

Look here abuamam or whatever u call urself how foolish can u b 2 claim that the gospel was copied when the writter of this gospels were with Christ Jesus 24/7 every single one of them had first hand experience of what they wrote down aside from being led by the holy spirit. The bible never prophecied about mohammed nd. Besides he neva possessed any fruit of the holy spirit gan Nat even wan

darfay:
Look here abuamam or whatever u call urself how foolish can u b 2 claim that the gospel was copied when the writter of this gospels were with Christ Jesus 24/7 every single one of them had first hand experience of what they wrote down aside from being led by the holy spirit. The bible never prophecied about mohammed nd. Besides he neva possessed any fruit of the holy spirit gan Nat even wan

Like the vast majority of the flock, you really have no idea about how your gospel was constituted. I advice that you research deeper into Bible history, and clear your mind of these misconceptions. Nothing that I said came from me; it was all postulated by REAL doctors of divinity and Bible historians, perhaps you should take a look at what these people have to say and take a break from your uneducated pastors; who are selling your soul for their mess of pottage (read huge mansions and private jets).

Abuamam:
Lol. Not everything is black OR white. There are different shades of grey. The NT is probably one of them; mostly sand, but with a little garri mixed in [size=14pt](you know, the part about the prophecy).[/size]

The part about the prophecy is correct EVEN ON THE SAME CHAPTER but the rest are incorrect

The large amount of sand makes it unpalatable sha. [size=14pt]In any case, which Muslim told you that Islam relies[/size] on the corrupt NT prophecying our prophet (saw)? We KNOW that this news is in the original gospel preached by Prophet Isa (Jesus if you like).

Go online and see how Islamic clerics have been using Bible both from OT & NT to support the coming of Muhammad.

So what happened to original Gospel?

The question I'm still asking Muslims which I never get answer to is, GOSPEL means Good tiding or Good news and Allah said he gave Isa THE Gospel, please what is the GOOD TIDING or GOOD NEWS is all about? Why Must Isa be given THE GOSPEL as a BOOK among all the prophets?

Abuamam:
Like the vast majority of the flock, you really have no idea about how your gospel was constituted. I advice that you research deeper into Bible history, and clear your mind of these misconceptions. Nothing that I said came from me; it was all postulated by REAL doctors of divinity and Bible historians, perhaps you should take a look at what these people have to say and take a break from your uneducated pastors; who are selling your soul for their mess of pottage (read huge mansions and private jets).

Do you take your time to research about your Qu'ran too?

Like I said earlier how irrational it is to think that a book was fabricated and at the same time this same FABRICATED books talk about the coming of your master.

Emusan:


Do you take your time to research about your Qu'ran too?

Like I said earlier how irrational it is to think that a book was fabricated and at the same time this same FABRICATED books talk about the coming of your master.

Of course. We need to learn all the details of our Quran before we can claim to have knowledge in Islam... that is the basic step.

I think I pointed out that SOME few verses in the book might have been transmitted correctly from Jesus' sayings. It is only that too much doctrine of greek philosophers and Roman paganism has been mixed in.

Abuamam:
Of course. We need to learn all the [size=14pt]details of our Quran before we can claim to have knowledge in Islam...[/size] that is the basic step.

So how was Qur'an constituted? Since you want him/her to do research on how the gospel was constituted.

I think I pointed out that [size=14pt]SOME few verses in the book might have been transmitted correctly from Jesus' sayings.[/size] It is only that too much doctrine of greek philosophers and Roman paganism has been mixed in.

So how do you know THE EXERT ONE transmitted correctly (even though you're not sure by using 'MIGHT') by the same person who mixed Roman paganism with his writing? Because there are many Jesus' saying that against Islam and Muhammad himself.

I guess Muslims only chose the one they like and leave the one that doesn't support their religion even though it's still the same JESUS' SAYING.


What a confuse fellow.

Emusan:


So how was Qur'an constituted? Since you want him/her to do research on how the gospel was constituted.



So how do you know THE EXERT ONE transmitted correctly (even though you're not sure by using 'MIGHT') by the same person who mixed Roman paganism with his writing? Because there are many Jesus' saying that against Islam and Muhammad himself.

I guess Muslims only chose the one they like and leave the one that doesn't support their religion even though it's still the same JESUS' SAYING.


What a confuse fellow.

Google is your friend here. Alternatively, you can find numerous books on how the Quran was preserved; from both truthful/ untruthful orientalists and Muslims.

We don't know... God knows best. The verse could be as corrupt as its sister verses.

But we don't use the Bible to justify our religion. We just show you how ambiguous it is; and if you can claim to use the OT to prove Jesus is the Messiah, (incidentally, the jews who WROTE the OT disagree), we can also prove that the prophet (saw) is in both OT and NT; using the standards YOU set (which ultimately is why you disagree too).

Emusan:


The part about the prophecy is correct EVEN ON THE SAME CHAPTER but the rest are incorrect



Go online and see how Islamic clerics have been using Bible both from OT & NT to support the coming of Muhammad.

So what happened to original Gospel?

The question I'm still asking Muslims which I never get answer to is, GOSPEL means Good tiding or Good news and Allah said he gave Isa THE Gospel, please what is the GOOD TIDING or GOOD NEWS is all about? Why Must Isa be given THE GOSPEL as a BOOK among all the prophets?

Sorry, I did not see your question before.

First, Allah said He gave Jesus the INJEEL. Why it was translated as the 'Gospel' is best known to the translator.

Secondly, for a more proper understanding of what 'Gospel' is meant here, see

Matthew 4:23 Matthew 9:35 Mark 1:14-15 Luke 4:43 and Luke 8:1

THAT would be the 'Gospel' Jesus preached, not Paul's letters or the 4th century writings falsely attributed to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Abuamam:
Sorry, I did not see your question before.

No problem

First, Allah said He gave Jesus the INJEEL. Why it was translated as the 'Gospel' is best known to the translator.

Is it what the translator chooses OR the MEANING OF THE WORD GOSPEL? Please don't bust my stomach with laugh ooo

Secondly, for a more proper understanding of what 'Gospel' is meant here, see

Matthew 4:23 Matthew 9:35 Mark 1:14-15 Luke 4:43 and Luke 8:1

THAT would be the 'Gospel' Jesus preached, not Paul's letters or the 4th century writings falsely attributed to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

The MOST funnies and ridiculous thing about your point here is that according to you Paul's letters or 4th century writing were FALSELY ATTRIBUTED TO Matthew, Mark, Luke and John BUT YOU CAN STILL REFER ME TO THE SAME Matthew, Mark & Luke

Now let's just agree that, that's what Jesus actually teaches Matthew 4:23 says [b]And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel (Good NEWS) of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people."
Matthew 9:35 " 35 ¶ Then Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel (Good NEWS) of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people."

Mark 1:14-15 "14 ¶ Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel (Good NEWS) of the kingdom of God, 15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

Luke 4:43 "but He said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, because for this purpose I have been sent."
Luke 8:1 "Now it came to pass, afterward, that He went through every city and village, preaching and bringing the glad tidings (GOSPEL) of the kingdom of God. And the twelve were with Him, NKJV (bracket, bold, italic-mine)[/b]

So if these are Jesus' statements the question still remains what is the GOOD NEWS about the KINGDOM of God that Jesus is preaching?-At least this Good NEWS must be something that NOBODY EVER HEARS ABOUT before.

Why must it be ONLY Jesus that was given Good NEWS to preach among the prophets as you believe?

Lastly, you have short yourself in the legs if you actually believe these because in every where the word GOSPEL or Glad Tidings/Good News appears as we read it in the above verses it connotes PREACHING and not A BOOK as Muhammad and Allah claimed.

Abuamam:
Google is your friend here. Alternatively, you can find numerous books on how the Quran was preserved; from both truthful/ untruthful orientalists and Muslims.

So is there no book about how Bible was preserved; from both truthful/untruthful orientalist and Christians too?

We don't know... God knows best. [size=14pt]The verse could be as corrupt as its sister verses.[/size]

Now you don't KNOW.
@bold-if the verses COULD BE as corrupt as the rest, so all this while Muslim clerics have been using Bible to prove the coming of Muhammad from the Bible means they are using corrupt book to support their claim.

See how illogical it is:

Christian: Bible is the word of God
Muslim: No, Bible is not the word of God
Christian: Why did you say that?
Muslim: Because it's a corrupt book (many contradictions and mixing up of pagan doctrines)
Christian: Then how come prophecy of Muhammad's coming can still be found in this book which is not the word of God, contains many contradictions and pagan doctrines?
Muslim: You see not all the part that corrupt, SOME PART were actually TRUE.
Christian: How do you know that?
Muslim: You can find such word like Thus says the Lord, God says or Jesus' saying...
Christian: Really!!! But there are some places in the BIBLE where we read the phrase Thus says the Lord, God says or Jesus' saying that against Islam and Muhammad.
Muslim: We don't know...God knows the best...

But we don't use the Bible to justify our religion. [size=14pt]We just show you how ambiguous it is; and if you can claim to use the OT to prove Jesus is the Messiah, (incidentally, the jews who WROTE the OT disagree),[/szie] we can also prove that the prophet (saw) is in both OT and NT; using the standards YOU set (which ultimately is why you disagree too).

AMBIGUOUS You show me how ambiguous it is by proving to me that Muhammad was actually prophecy in the Bible (Remember there even a verse in the Qur'an that openly stated that Muhammad was spoken of in their Book)

Now see the different between Muslims and Christians;
Despite the fact that Christians use OT to prove to a Jew that Jesus is the MESSIAH [b]YET Christians don't say their (Jews) BOOK is not God's word, Contradictory, Ambiguous and Corrupted that's why Christians can ADD their book together with their OWN book.

But in case of Muslims they raised all these allegations against BOTH JEWS & CHRISTIAN BOOKS and still claimed the coming of their master can be found IN THESE CORRUPTED, Contradictory, NON-God's Word and Ambiguous books.

How pathetic it sounds?

Emusan:


So is there no book about how Bible was preserved; from both truthful/untruthful orientalist and Christians too?



Now you don't KNOW.
@bold-if the verses COULD BE as corrupt as the rest, so all this while Muslim clerics have been using Bible to prove the coming of Muhammad from the Bible means they are using corrupt book to support their claim.

See how illogical it is:

Christian: Bible is the word of God
Muslim: No, Bible is not the word of God
Christian: Why did you say that?
Muslim: Because it's a corrupt book (many contradictions and mixing up of pagan doctrines)
Christian: Then how come prophecy of Muhammad's coming can still be found in this book which is not the word of God, contains many contradictions and pagan doctrines?
Muslim: You see not all the part that corrupt, SOME PART were actually TRUE.
Christian: How do you know that?
Muslim: You can find such word like Thus says the Lord, God says or Jesus' saying...
Christian: Really!!! But there are some places in the BIBLE where we read the phrase Thus says the Lord, God says or Jesus' saying that against Islam and Muhammad.
Muslim: We don't know...God knows the best...



AMBIGUOUS You show me how ambiguous it is by proving to me that Muhammad was actually prophecy in the Bible (Remember there even a verse in the Qur'an that openly stated that Muhammad was spoken of in their Book)

Now see the different between Muslims and Christians;
Despite the fact that Christians use OT to prove to a Jew that Jesus is the MESSIAH [b]YET Christians don't say their (Jews) BOOK is not God's word, Contradictory, Ambiguous and Corrupted that's why Christians can ADD their book together with their OWN book.

But in case of Muslims they raised all these allegations against BOTH JEWS & CHRISTIAN BOOKS and still claimed the coming of their master can be found IN THESE CORRUPTED, Contradictory, NON-God's Word and Ambiguous books.

How pathetic it sounds?

You are just trying to play a fast one.

First, a book being corrupt does not mean that everything in it is fake. We believe that your current NT contains words narrated about Jesus, or incorporating things he MIGHT have said. Problem is, there is no way to ascertain that he actually DID say all those things attributed to him.

Second, there are verses which have been acknowledged by CHRISTIAN bible scholars as being interpolated. The authorship of the whole Bible is in doubt (apart from some of Paul's letters). The mere fact that false authorship was attributed to certain chapters, makes the whole book suspect (I said SUSPECT). For example, no way did Moses write his obituary at the end of Deuteronomy. There are many such examples.

Third, we assert that if ONLY ONE verse is interpolated, or removed or changed, therefore the whole cannot be the word of the Almighty. And we also assert that if there is one interpolated verse, there could be another and another and another.

Fourth and for the nth time, we do not use the Bible verses, authentic or not, to prove the existence of our prophet (saw). We use it as a witness against YOU, who believe that it is all from God; even with all the evidence to the contrary.

Fifth, we know that any verse in conflict with the Quran MUST be a later interpolation. We also know that some, like the one you mentioned above, COULD be from Jesus. There are others, such as whether he was born in Bethlehem or not, whether he went to Galilee or not; about which we say 'God knows best'. These could be true, or could be false. A verse saying 'thus says the Lord' could still be an interpolation depending on its content. We know that the Lord cannot invite mankind to associate sons and daughters with Him. So your implication that any verse that starts with "thus says the Lord..." is automatically accepted as authentic by Muslims, is patently false and designed to make the xtian win the imaginary argument.

Hope you now comprehend our exact position on your Bible.

Abuamam:
You are just trying to play a fast one.

And you're trying to be...

[size=14pt]First, a book being corrupt does not mean that everything in it is fake.[/size] We believe that your current NT contains words narrated about Jesus, or [size=14pt]incorporating things he MIGHT have said.[/size] Problem is, there is no way to ascertain that he actually DID say all those things attributed to him.

I will continue to bold your illogical statement

The emphasis is @underline part, since it doesn't mean that EVERYTHING is fake, how can you know precisely the ONES that are correct and the ONES that are incorrect?


So what if the ONE Muslim scholars are claiming to be Jesus words are finally the ones they incorporating with Jesus?

You can't eat your cake and have it.

[size=14pt]Second, there are verses which have been acknowledged by CHRISTIAN bible scholars as being interpolated.[/size] The authorship of the whole Bible is in doubt (apart from some of Paul's letters). The mere fact that false authorship was attributed to certain chapters, makes the whole book suspect (I said SUSPECT). For example, no way did Moses write his obituary at the end of Deuteronomy. There are many such examples.

The bold section is a wrong information about the Holy Bible, interpolation as you may believe CAN ONLY be said to appear in the TRANSLATOR'S VERSIONS not in the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT. I hope you can differentiate between ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT and TRANSLATION.

All the Greek manuscripts in possession today were dated back to 100BC long before even Muhammad came into the scene.

About authorship your argument here is baseless, you know why? Because that can also be said about Qur'an and Muhammad. Muhammad isn't the one who wrote Qur'an with his own hands. If you care to read more about Christian analysis of Bible authorship you would've know the truth i.e scholars agree that Joshua actually completed the last part of Deuteronomy remember he was with Moses right from Egypt.

Third, we assert that if ONLY ONE verse is interpolated, or removed or changed, [size=14pt]therefore the whole cannot be the word of the Almighty.[/size] And we also assert that if there is one interpolated verse, there could be another and another and another.

See how you contradicted yourself, you said before "First, a book being corrupt does not mean that everything in it is fake."
But for you to continue living in delusion you later claim "Third, we assert that if ONLY ONE verse is interpolated, or removed or changed, [size=14pt]therefore the whole cannot be the word of the Almighty.[/size]

Now it's evident that Muslims are confuse fellow.

What I want from you now is to tell me that Muhammad was prophecy in the corrupt Bible OR no prophecy of Muhammad was in this corrupt Bible, then this discussion will end.

Fourth and for the nth time, we do not use the Bible verses, authentic or not, to prove the existence of our prophet (saw). [size=14pt]We use it as a witness against YOU,[/size] who believe that it is all from God; even with all the evidence to the contrary.

Imaging you're using a CORRUPT BOOK as a witness...and this witness will then prove that Muhammad was actually prophesied in this CORRUPT BOOK.

[size=14pt]Fifth, we know that any verse in conflict with the Quran MUST be a later interpolation.[/size] We also know that some, like the one you mentioned above, COULD be from Jesus. There are others, such as whether he was born in Bethlehem or not, whether he went to Galilee or not; about which we say 'God knows best'. These could be true, or could be false. A verse saying 'thus says the Lord' could still be an interpolation depending on its content. We know that the Lord cannot invite mankind to associate sons and daughters with Him.

Even if the place that the saying THUS SAYS THE LORD is ACTUALLY TRUE but since it against Islam or Muhammad it must be INTERPOLATION.

Imaging another thing could be from Jesus when you're already said IF ONE VERSE is interpolated, Change, Removed THE WHOLE CAN'T BE FROM ALMIGHTY

This is an evidence that Muslims truly know that Jesus' actual words were recorded in the Bible but decided to chose the one they like and reject the ones that against them.

So your implication that any verse that starts with "thus says the Lord..." is automatically accepted as authentic by Muslims, is patently false and designed to make the xtian win the imaginary argument.

Can you provide evidence where I said this?

Hope you now comprehend our exact position on your Bible.

Your position is coarse and contradictory.

You want to eat your cake and still have it.

You don't want to accept Bible as the Word of God, FULL with contradictions & interpolations [b]but on the other hands YOU STILL WANT US TO BELIEVE THAT Muhammad was prophesied in this same CORRUPT BOOK and Muslims were ONLY USING THIS CORRUPT BOOK as a WITNESS to Christians.

Finally, I can see you totally omitted the part in my post where I said despite the fact that the Jews don't accept Jesus as The Messiah YET Christians never condemned their book not speak horrible statement against it instead they accepted their book BUT Islam on the other hands TERMED both Jews and Christians books as Corrupt, NOT WORD OF GOD, contradictory YET claiming it still contain the prophecy about Muhammad, what do you have to say?