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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. (31345 Views)
FG Copying Lagos’ Template To Revive Economy –adeosun / Power Crisis: Nigeria Lacks Gas To Generate 7,000MW —osinbajo / We’ll Kill Corruption, Solve Power Problem – Osinbajo (2) (3) (4)
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Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by stave9ja(m): 6:26pm On May 12, 2015 |
OrlandoOwoh: its gas powered it 40naira per kilowatt it all depends on what you wanna use i have used 400 naira for two weeks before when i wanted to save like crazy and had used 15k for a month (5 ac working loooong hours) 1 Like |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by aresa: 6:27pm On May 12, 2015 |
gists: The problem at the moment has to do largely with the inefficient and outdated transmission grid. They should let the local communities take care of their power needs instead of the FG wasting time and years looking for billions of dollars to build power plants and some more billions of dollars to build a new transmission system all over the country. The FG should scrap the transmission lines and build new and more effective lines from scratch. The new transmission line can transport any excess power from the places you mentioned to needy areas or even send it out to other countries for sale. |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by EMANY01(m): 6:34pm On May 12, 2015 |
pasol4real: Sarcasm man sarcasm.It went right over your head. 1 Like |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by OrlandoOwoh(m): 6:37pm On May 12, 2015 |
stave9ja:Does it mean that in a face-me-i-face-you building they may be paying upto 50 k per month? |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by 9jatriot(m): 7:03pm On May 12, 2015 |
aresa: With projects like, I still cant phantom why and how PDP was able to get more than 100k votes in lagos state. PDP idealy should not get more 38k votes for people who understand what governance is about. Well lets stay on the power issue sha. 1 Like |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by aresa: 8:01pm On May 12, 2015 |
9jatriot: Unfortunately for us in Nigeria, voting is not always about performance, people vote based on irrelevant and self destructive things like tribalism, religious, bigotry and so on. 1 Like |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by gists: 4:22am On May 13, 2015 |
OrlandoOwoh:I gave the example of Afam because I heard Afam is deliberately not generating to maximum installed capacity because the national grid cannot take the power (I can't confirm this but I tend to believe the story). So, the guy in ikeja may probably not be sleeping in darkness if this was not the case. Don't get me wrong because I am not asking for more money to be pumped into the grid. I just don't want us to lose that flexibility but yanking off an upper layer of connectivity as backup. Again I repeat, I am for 1000% decentralization. But now consider this scenario: suppose Lagos alone needs more than 10 IPPs because of the share size of population and commercial entities. Who says all the IPPs have to be installed in Lagos? Lagos is even expanding into the atlantic ocean! Are we going to sacrifice schools and parks and possible further development just because of this when we have untapped land in Osun for example with less than a quarter of Lagos power needs. If Osun or Ekiti or bayelsa need 100MW for example, why not install 300 or even 500MW and transport the rest to Lagos through this upper layer? That way you keep the lifestyle in Lagos and also industries in Ogun going while generating employment in Osun/ekiti and improving their economy. This does not mean 8 out of the 10 IPPs that Lagos need cannot be installed around the Lagos state. In summary: Retain the national grid as it is without pumping more money for now and concentrate on local generation for communities using the DISCos. The definition of community need to be clear - is it state, LGAs, LCDA, estates, streets etc). However, DISCos should be encouraged to generate more power so as to sell to other DISCos serving other communities that may need it if/when required through an upper distribution or transmission layer. aresa:I don't think the local communities should handle this. Who will coordinate this? The local government chairmen? I believe this will be creating another mini FG in the various communities. Gov. Fashola was once credited to have said "government does not have business in business" and I completely agree with him. Let the discos handle this as a commercial venture. Nigeria is already covered by the various discos. But there may be need to reonstitute the discos to better serve the communities. Let give them power to generate and remove any bottleneck preventing them from getting finance from banks. |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by gists: 5:23am On May 13, 2015 |
This lady said it all while responding to similar questions on another thread. Hopefully she'll come here and share more thoughts. nuesaweso: |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by OrlandoOwoh(m): 5:43am On May 13, 2015 |
gists:The issue of enough land space to site the IPPs in Lagos State is not a problem, the privately owned IPP along Lagos-Abeokuta Road, not far from Nigerian Breweries, Ota, sits on not-more-than four plots of land. It uses gas. As congested as Lagos State is, there are still enough lands. |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by gists: 7:47am On May 13, 2015 |
OrlandoOwoh:All the same, we still a grid. I can't think of a country that doesn't have one. Pylon-making companies would have gone out of business if there are no customers buying pylons for transmission on their grids ![]() BTW the IPP you talked about in Ota. But is Ota is in Ogun state not Lagos - right? Without a grid how will someone in Ikotun or Ajegunle benefit from that IPP in Ota. We still need a grid -period! But to revamp it is not the priority now. The priority is decentralizaation of electricity generation. The idea of BIG GENCos pumping electricity into the grid at a national level for onward transmission across the country will not work - especially with our inefficient grid network. The concept should be reversed. Eliminate the GENCos at the national level and bring them closer to the "community" i.e end-users. But since the Discos are already at the end-user levels, they may as well partially or fully assume the role of GENCos. Let them generate for their respective communities and upload the rest to the grid for other communities whose GENCo/DISCo has issues or cannot meet their demand for whatever reason. |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by OrlandoOwoh(m): 8:22am On May 13, 2015 |
gists:I only used the IPP in Sango Ota which occupies a not too large land as an example when you raised the issue of non-availability of land in Lagos State. We won't because we want makers pylons not to run out of business then we watch power go more epileptic. If you see the risk people and vehicles in Kola/AIT junction along Lagos-Abeokuta Expressway face due to the large number of pylons and electric wires of the national grid, you will think twice. For years Bayelsa State was created, it was not connected to the national grid. Their IPPs ensured steady power supply. |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by 9jatriot(m): 9:35am On May 13, 2015 |
aresa: With this your statement, Rivers state comes to mind. Well, a people deserve the government they get. |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by 9jatriot(m): 9:56am On May 13, 2015 |
gists: The national grid serves as a national treasury where all the power generated is fed into for further transmission and eventual distribution. There is nothing wrong with having modular systems. The problem people have is have is that they still do not look at power issue as an income generating business. People still see it totally as a social service. For example, if 170M people in Nigeria use only 1 naira each day as their utility bill, the company would have made 170M naira per day. That is a lot of money by any standard using a conservative value of 1 naira per person excluding industries and the fact that we actually spend more in a day (An average home my estimation without AC should spend about 100 naira per day). If we see it as a business that one an states decide to invest in it with a view to increase their IGR, then I think it should be encouraged. But they will have to start from somewhere. Rivers state for example has been boasting that they can power their states if only the law enables them to, so why not allow those who can do so. With this system in place a time will come when some states will begin to generate more than what they actually need, at that time, they can now sell to the national grid. Companies can also sell their excess energy into the national grid. With time the cost of power will reduce because we will have a robust system of transmitting and distributing power. This approach is both a short term and a long term approach, mere thinking about it is commendable. Even if it fails, I will be happy to know that we have a government that is ready to think out of the box. I do not think that the national grid will be phased out, nothing possible. Maybe when the modular systems are powering their areas we will then solve the national grid problem holistically and eventually start exporting power to other countries to reduce our dependency on oil. What the average man on the streets wants is not mega watts, he wants to switch on his light every day and have at least a 75% chance that it will really come on as against the 5% chance he is presently facing. |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by TonySpike: 10:29am On May 13, 2015 |
9jatriot:True, sir! |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by EMANY01(m): 12:26pm On May 13, 2015 |
slimfit1: So you now admit that that "there are trains that can transport.........." . I remember that the apc and you guys on nairaland made a song and dance about GEJ's claim about reviving the railways being false. Which one we go believe now? |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by slimfit1(m): 12:52pm On May 13, 2015 |
EMANY01: How difficult is it to put wood or concrete on a rail its not rocket science any more you know so don't make it look big. |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by aresa: 2:46pm On May 13, 2015 |
gists: Afam is suffering simply because the Grid is worthless and can not accept generated power from Afam and the story is the same all over the country. Where is the sense and wisdom in building power plants all over the place with little or no benefit in return because the grid is rotten and inefficient. Lagos state built 5 Microgrids with 300 miles of underground transmission cables that that are now powering roads, bridges, hospitals, industries, government secretariats and other public buildings 24/7 in less than 4 years. The only reason why the state is not investing and or accepting energy investments to supply residents with power is because of the counterproductive laws we are yet to get rid of.. But now consider this scenario: suppose Lagos alone needs more than 10 IPPs because of the share size of population and commercial entities. Who says all the IPPs have to be installed in Lagos? Lagos is even expanding into the atlantic ocean! Are we going to sacrifice schools and parks and possible further development just because of this when we have untapped land in Osun for example with less than a quarter of Lagos power needs. If Osun or Ekiti or bayelsa need 100MW for example, why not install 300 or even 500MW and transport the rest to Lagos through this upper layer? That way you keep the lifestyle in Lagos and also industries in Ogun going while generating employment in Osun/ekiti and improving their economy. This does not mean 8 out of the 10 IPPs that Lagos need cannot be installed around the Lagos state. There's nothing wrong with Lagos building their own IPPs to serve their local needs. You said you are for 1000% decentralization, but still promoting centralization. Concentrating power in Osun for onward transmission over many states all the way to Lagos for distribution is centralization, you are basically leaving power infrastructure exposed over hundreds of miles. In case of any mishap or deliberate tampering or sabotage, the whole of Lagos and several states are out of power possibly for days or weeks till the problem is located and fixed. Osun is an agrarian society and job creation in Osun should be centered around Agric to take care of the food needs of the entire region. What they need is cheap and effective modern transportation to move goods and services to markets in Lagos and other states and supplies and machineries to Osun and surrounding Agric states, Hi-Tech Agric and storage system and so on. This is their strength and how to build wealth and generate employment in places like Osun state.. I don't think the local communities should handle this. Who will coordinate this? The local government chairmen? I believe this will be creating another mini FG in the various communities. Gov. Fashola was once credited to have said "government does not have business in business" and I completely agree with him. Let the discos handle this as a commercial venture. Nigeria is already covered by the various discos. But there may be need to reonstitute the discos to better serve the communities. Let give them power to generate and remove any bottleneck preventing them from getting finance from banks. This is not about the local governments or LG chairman running power infrastructures or DISCOs, the is about letting utility companies set up power plants and distribution networks in designated cities and communities to serve their local needs with the government regulating their operations.. The DISCOs as they are right now are inefficient and grossly incapable of delivering anything meaningful to their customers, they are not even in any profitable situation to recoup their investments or re-invest to better their performance because the legal arrangements on the ground and the National grid are hampering their operation and performance.. Lagos state is directly benefitting from their power plants and able to provide 24/7 power to their institutions because they don't feed their generated power into the National grid for transmission, they transmit via their own 300 miles underground transmission cable network while other states are getting little or nothing in return for the hundreds of MW plants and investments. Unlike Lagos, they basically have to feed everything they generate into the grid for nothing in return, their people are still in darkness. Spending billions of dollars on power plants with reliance on the same worthless grid to transmit makes zero sense, it's flushing down money inside the drain. States and communities should be allowed to go ahead and take care of their power needs while the FG concentrates on the Grid as a back up system.... |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by gists: 5:31pm On May 13, 2015 |
@aresa I am not promoting centralization. Simply because I asked that we don't decommission our grid doesn't mean I am asking for centralization. As I said, I can't think of a country that doesn't have some form of grid system. Maybe you can help me with some examples. What if something happens at gaslink and the gas supply to many of the turbines in Lagos goes down? I just used Osun as example but it looked like you are focusig on distance. But there are countless scenarios that can give rise to power shortage in any region. What is the point of having power in Mowe (Ogun state) and the people in Berger (Lagos state less than 50km from Mowe) for some reasons are staying in darkness or vise versa. In the same manner, what is the point of having excess power in Afam while the GENCo/DISCo in Abia struggles to meet the electricity demand of her citizens? What is the point in have excess power in Akwa Ibom while the GENCo/DISCo in Cross rivers struggles to meet the electricity demand of her citizens? What is the point in have excess power in Kaduna while the GENCo/DISCo in Zamfara struggles to meet the electricity demand of her citizens? The grid provides for flexibility as backup not as main form of distribution and guarantees extra revenue for those that can sell to others "in need". It covers these tiny "blind spot" here and there - i believe I have said this before. The question then is, what happens if every jurisdiction is able to produce more power than is required in their various regions/localities? To answer that, I believe if Ghana had the audacity to nurse the intention to sell electricity to us, there shouldn't be anything preventing us from also selling electricity to neighboring countries. You can't do that without a grid. Ghana than wanted to sell electricity to us cannot be nursing that thought if all the have is island generating plants in Accra, Kumasi and co without an over-riding grid. http://www.punchng.com/news/ghana-plans-to-export-electricity-to-nigeria/ |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by zimoni(f): 7:11pm On May 13, 2015 |
Very interesting thread. It's always been my idea at solving the power problem once and for all. We shall get there. It is well. |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by aresa: 7:45pm On May 13, 2015 |
gists: In a sense do agree with you and I also share your sentiments, but my take has to with addressing our immediate needs by deploying quick and easy fixes here and there since addressing our archaic and almost obsolete transmission grid issues could take almost a decade at best to complete and tens of billions that we don't have on the table to build right now. We know it's possible and could be delivered in little or no time as demonstrated in Lagos. Lagos today can ignore or sidestep the National grid for good if possible simply because they have their own underground cable system to rely on. They have aggressive Solar energy program that's presently powering many schools and health centers, they have a transformer manufacturing plant and many power plants with many or on the drawing board. Local and federal agencies should allow utility companies to set up microgrids to serve their local population while the FG finds solution and address the national grid problem substantially.. Without significant improvements per power generation and transmission, the new administration's mass employment proclamations remains nothing but a sad dream. |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by gists: 10:03pm On May 13, 2015 |
I don't know why we are arguing because it is now obvious we are saying the same thing. aresa: This is my position on the above: gists: |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by jpphilips(m): 1:00pm On May 14, 2015 |
vanunu: Can you show us the existing gas pipeline network in Lagos today? |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by jpphilips(m): 1:09pm On May 14, 2015 |
Reference: You seem to lack the basic concept of what is dicussed |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by jpphilips(m): 2:41pm On May 14, 2015 |
aresa: Bonny, Abonnema, some parts of omoku so many places in bayelsa, just take a trip from your cave |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by Imokay: 6:40pm On May 14, 2015 |
EMANY01: Mr Physicist / Economist, have you bothered to estimate the real cost of no power supply on human development index? |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by Imokay: 6:45pm On May 14, 2015 |
anonimi: And the Otuoke 'Jesus' you supported for another 4-year term spent $35 Billion to further cement the darkness produced by his mentor and benefactor. It's a pity you snide at Nigerians for kicking out a party which spent $50 Billion in 16 years to keep us in darkness |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by Imokay: 6:50pm On May 14, 2015 |
Bayswater: What did GEJ add in 5+ years? he is still celebrating achievement in 2015 of 4000 MW, same 4000 MW also celebrated by the Obasanjo government in 2007 |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by Imokay: 7:45pm On May 14, 2015 |
gists: Nothing stops a power plant supplied with 'bottles'from switching to pipeline gas whenever the pipeline eventually arrives. It makes no sense to keep people in Abaji, Tegina, Otuoke, Potiskum, Ode-Omu, Sekona, Oturukpo, Zuru, Aramoko, Kaura-Namoda etc. in darkness for some more years under the guise of waiting for pipeline. Towns closer to the gas sources will be the first to be taken off 'bottles'supply immediately the pipelines get extended and the compression station can be easily shifted to the northern-most reaches of the pipeline, thereby shortening the trucking distance of compressed gas supply. |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by Imokay: 8:01pm On May 14, 2015 |
gists: The national grid should never be abandoned or left as it is. There must be more investments in upgrading and extending it's reach. All the scattered power plants will eventually join the network so that excess power can be sold at peak and off-peak period. Why should the owner of a sleepy agricultural town with say a 10MW plant that needs not more than 2MW at night not be able to sell to larger 24-hour cities through and earn cool cash rather keep his plant earning from only 20% installed capacity at night? 1 Like |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by jpphilips(m): 9:17am On May 15, 2015 |
TonySpike: Bitumen ![]() ![]() |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by jpphilips(m): 12:06pm On May 15, 2015 |
gists: The funny thing about you guys argument is that all of you are saying the same thing with different terminologies. You cannot transmit power without a grid, so whether decentralized or not, there must be a grid, now the Osibanjo argument is; whether we need a National grid? the answer is no!!, how do we get electricity to those who cannot generate, first question to ask them is can you pay for it? if the answer is yes, then they may link them to the closest grid, even if it spans across three states, it is still decentralized, and it cannot be confused for a national grid. What happens during emergency? you dont need to keep portharcourt in darkness because you want to send their power to lagos cos a natural disaster affected their IPP, if there is an excess, then we can assume that the volume of it will determine whether it is cost effective to build a national grid for a contingency plan like that else, by all means, Lagos should use generators pending when the issue is fixed, the loss in revenue alone for the Power companies will keep them on their toes. What gas infrastructure do we need? Everyday I curse Margaret Thatcher for proposing a DSO for gas in our PIB, most of you know how to complain but you guys lack the ability to forecast how govt policies will affect us, now, we are asking a question we should have asked Margaret thatcher since she started circulating that PIB sh!t!. Margaret thatcher is proposing that we can only get gas by begging the IOC's to give us a specified amount for local consumption, there is no country in the world with proven gas reserves that can allow that crap! The disadvantage is that Nigeria or individuals will never invest in gas infrastructure because there is free gas somewhere; 2) Gas infrastructures will not be maintained because it is free, nobody will take responsibility 3) Diversion will be encouraged, the Domestic gas issue is still fresh in our minds. The IOC's have said we cannot give you free gas, they spent good money extracting it, tell NGC to invest in gas infrastructures to give you gas, just like NPDC can not give us local production capacity in oil because she has diverted most of their viable oil blocks, and we still expect refineries to work? if she is not begging for refineries, she is begging for gas, next she will start threatening the biggest FDI her economy depends on. When I ask where is the oil? nobody has ever answered that question. Funny enough she thinks she is stepping on toes when in the real sense she is making a m@ss of the industry. Back to the subject, we have a West african gas pipeline (WAPCO), a joint venture of 3 west african countries, that is how our gas gets to far away Accra to fire their power plant. I don't think there is a ny major city in Nigeria that has no Gas trunk line close to it, Just like OBJ planned it, all IPP must not be gas, people who are not close to gas trunk lines should use whatever means that is viable, it is up to the investing company to decide that not us. You dont need to construct pipelines from Bayelsa to Ondo if Ondo has nothing to generate electricity with, all you need to do is a barred tee on a Lagos trunk line and you will have a shorter gas line distance to Ondo, its that simple, so dont worry about gas logistics, nobody is gonna ferry Gas in tankers ![]() ![]() ![]() finally, the issue of sabotage is uncommon with gas lines, that was another area the PIB should have made sense but margaret thatcher is too dumb to solve any problem, this is what happens, most companies flow condensate in their trunk lines, due to leak or other OPS necessity, the said gas line will temporarily function as a multiphase means of transportation in a process called spiking, saving the company money from down time, over the years, it has become a problem in the industry and it is as dangerous as flaring. The companies have moles and community employees who have their guys standing by in the bush, on that hour of multiphase flow, the boys are alerted and the pipeline is fvcked, there is no security contingency for multiphase operation in Nigeria, what stops the PIB from making it mandatory for ROW security during multiphase operations if we must? If we stop Multiphase OPS in Nigeria, Nobody will go anywhere close to a gas pipeline. Secondly, competing GENCOS sabotage their various competitors because most of their OPS limit are not even defined, that is where decentralization will come handy, if you are in charge of Akwaibom, you have no business going to sabotage Edo Genco, because you are not allowed to distribute there, other investors can come in to encourage competition but it must be, two or more GENCO in a DISCO, NO inter DISCO OPS, else we will have another minister crying about sabotage. Whether IPP will work? that was the only Achilles heel to Obj's NIPP, realistically speaking, Nigeria can do about 15,000MW, that should serve half of the country 24/7 minimum. Unfortunately, dumb senator chris Ngige, the Onwa of blind people who happened to be the deputy chairman senate committee on power, forgot that his only mission in Abuja as a senator was to throw his weight behind decentralization of power transmission, after sleeping for four years, he stup!dly came back to collect another ticket, thinking that his people (Nigerians by extension) are used to staying in darkness. Thank god for sending that thunder wey fire am!! 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by jpphilips(m): 12:10pm On May 15, 2015 |
Imokay: Do you know how much it cost to do 5km standard grid that can carry 20,000MW of electricity, can you guess? we dont need a national grid at this stage, development is one at a time, it is cheaper for ikeja GENCO to construct a 5,000MW grid over 30km to cover Ikeja alone than doing 20,000MW round the country, bros this matter na common sense naa!! He already knows that Ikeja will never exceed 5,000MW in the next decade!! |
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