agaugust:



[size=16pt]

T-129 carries more modern weapons and avionics than the Rooivalk.

The Rooivalk is a 1980s concept helicopter with old 1990s equipment.

T-129 does back flips in the air, that combat maneuver will break the Rooivalk into pieces
.[/size]

You keep saying the ATAK is better
You keep saying the Rooivalk is obsolete

But you can never tell us HOW

Because you cant - there is no evidence to support your claims

agaugust:


Good point, that is why ONLY South African air force bought the Rooivalk. The concept is NOT good enough for any other air force.

I love your confession + suicide
.

Its neither a confession or suicide

It was not designed to be sold.

It was designed for the SAAF - South African needs, South African conditions.

Maybe when you build your own attack helicopter, or purchase one that compares to the Rooivalk, you can come and comment on it, until then - bite your tongue troll.

agaugust:


Algerian army air defence, artillery, infantry, missile force, armoured vehicles, are more in numbers than those of France and just as modern, or even more modern than that of France in some cases. You have not given any technical data proof why France will crush Algeria, except your private emotion and imaginations.

I don't want to talk much on a photo thread. I have shown you the summary of Algeria's weapons, names and numbers they have. France has NOTHING superior overall.

see:

patches689:


Algeria has a conscript army

Thus, by definition, they are not professional

France is one of the few countries in the world was blue-water force projection - in-case you forgot, they have a full blown carrier as well as 7 amphibious warfare vessels ( 3 Mistrals to Algerias 1) so they can very easily fight that far from home.

Much is being made of Algeria's air defence network - what you fail to realize is that it will quickly be eroded by french warships slinging cruise missiles and the French airforce employing their Storm Shadow cruise missiles from over 300km away and later their AASM Hammer munitions. Algerias S300 stocks are not unlimited.

Algeria will be bombed into the stone age before the first french planes come within the 200km range of the Algerian S-300PMU-2's.

Algeria's 44 SU-30's wont stand a chance against against Frances ~100 Rafaels, the rest of the Algerian airforce wont stand a chance against the 124 remaining french Mirage 2000's.

Now lets talk logistics:

1. Algeria is in range of French Rafaels based in France (with aerial-refuel) as well as Mirage 2000's based in France (aerial refuel)
2. Algeria is in range of French air assets based in Mali, Niger and Chad.

Once air superiority is established, its just a question of mopping up.

.....

patches689:


see:

Algeria has a conscript army

Thus, by definition, they are not professional

France is one of the few countries in the world was blue-water force projection - in-case you forgot, they have a full blown carrier as well as 7 amphibious warfare vessels ( 3 Mistrals to Algerias 1) so they can very easily fight that far from home.

Much is being made of Algeria's air defence network - what you fail to realize is that it will quickly be eroded by french warships slinging cruise missiles and the French airforce employing their Storm Shadow cruise missiles from over 300km away and later their AASM Hammer munitions. Algerias S300 stocks are not unlimited.

Algeria will be bombed into the stone age before the first french planes come within the 200km range of the Algerian S-300PMU-2's.

Algeria's 44 SU-30's wont stand a chance against against Frances ~100 Rafaels, the rest of the Algerian airforce wont stand a chance against the 124 remaining french Mirage 2000's.

Now lets talk logistics:

1. Algeria is in range of French Rafaels based in France (with aerial-refuel) as well as Mirage 2000's based in France (aerial refuel)
2. Algeria is in range of French air assets based in Mali, Niger and Chad.

Once air superiority is established, its just a question of mopping up.

First give me a source to prove that Algerian army is made up of conscripts, a country with bigger defence budget than South Africa.

Read:

Algerian navy and army both have massive CRAM capability, anti-missile defence capability, cruise missiles are slow speed and easy for CRAM to neutralize. Algeria has air refueling tankers, and Su-30 Flankers does not even need air refueling to attack France from Algeria. The Su-30 will attack French cruise missile sites using anti-radiation and air to surface missiles. France has weaker air defence missiles, weaker artillery systems.

Algerian army is not conscript, the regulars are 100,000 men and 150,000 reserves all heavily trained on weapons and very fit physically. The Algerian army fought an 11 year modern war against an enemy of 40,000 deadly insurgents just some years ago. France has only one half baked aircraft carrier and about 10 surface ships that will face 500 long range anti-ship missiles from Algerian navy and air force jets fighters and stealth warships plus submarines with heavy torpedoes. France's army will face about 5,000 Algerian anti-tank guided missiles, 300 T-90 tanks and about 3,000 APC/IFV many armed with missiles.

I have proved my point technically, and even the a world class military general won't dispute it
.

patches689:


You keep saying the ATAK is better
You keep saying the Rooivalk is obsolete

But you can never tell us HOW

Because you cant - there is no evidence to support your claims

Tell us the range of the FLIR on the Rooivalk, that is one vital point to compare
.

agaugust:


Algerian navy and army both have massive CRAM capability, anti-missile defence capability, cruise missiles are slow speed and easy for CRAM to neutralize.

Algerian Navy of only 3 active Koni-class frigates and 6 corvettes will be utterly obliterated by the massive french navy

agaugust:

Algeria has air refueling tankers, and Su-30 Flankers does not even need air refueling to attack France from Algeria. The Su-30 will attack French cruise missile sites using anti-radiation and air to surface missiles. France has weaker air defence missiles, weaker artillery systems.

French will be launching cruise missiles from their fleet and Rafaels, not land stations you slowpoke

And those 44 Su-30's dont stand a chance against nearly 100 Rafeals and 124 Mirage 2000's

agaugust:

Algerian army is not conscript, the regulars are 100,000 men and 150,000 reserves all heavily trained on weapons and very fit physically.

17 is the legal minimum age for voluntary military service; 19-30 years of age for compulsory service; conscript service obligation is 18 months (6 months basic training, 12 months civil projects) (2012)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ag.html

Yet again, your ignorance is stunning

agaugust:

France has only one half baked aircraft carrier and about 10 surface ships that will face 500 long range anti-ship missiles from Algerian navy and air force jets fighters and stealth warships plus submarines with heavy torpedoes

That half-baked aircraft carrier is the only Nuclear Carrier outside of the US Navy and it carries a total of 40 Rafale M, Super Étendard, E-2C Hawkeye, SA365 Dauphin, EC725 Caracal, AS532 Cougar. The Charlles De Gaulle is by itself allmost a match for the Algerian Airforce

500 long range anti-ship missiles? Pulling numbers out of your bum again?

Well, luckily the french have 2 Horizon-class air-defence destroyers and 2 Cassard-class air-defence destroyers

The Algerian navy does not have any modern active warships that are combat ready

agaugust:

France's army will face about 5,000 Algerian anti-tank guided missiles, 300 T-90 tanks and about 3,000 APC/IFV many armed with missiles.

All of which will make great targets for "Hammer" PGM's deployed from the Rafael

Not to mention that France has 400 Leclerc MBT's which are more than a match for 300 upgraded T-72's

And Algeria only has 1 898 APC's and IFVs you liar

Those paltry 1 898 will be facing 5 567 french IFV's and AFV's

agaugust:

I am sure even Britain will be afraid to face Algeria. Dude, let's not derail this thread, and stop attacking my comments because of vendetta coming from another thread somewhere. I have proved my point technically, and even the a world class military general won't dispute it.

You have proved that you have no idea what you are talking about, calling the Charles de Gaulle "half backed", doubling the number of IFV's the Algerians have, thinking the Su-30 can maintain air suprioerity when it is outnumbered 2:1 by the Rafael, thinking 3 frigates can stand up to a carrier and 10 destroyers

You are a fvcking slowpoke.

Algeria will have the absolyute christ smashed out of them. They dont stand a chance.

agaugust:


Tell us the range of the FLIR on the Rooivalk, that is one vital point to compare
.

Tell us the range on the ATAK FLIR

patches689:


Algerian Navy of only 3 active Koni-class frigates and 6 corvettes will be utterly obliterated by the massive french navy





French will be launching cruise missiles from their fleet and Rafaels, not land stations you slowpoke

And those 44 Su-30's dont stand a chance against nearly 100 Rafeals and 124 Mirage 2000's




17 is the legal minimum age for voluntary military service; 19-30 years of age for compulsory service; conscript service obligation is 18 months (6 months basic training, 12 months civil projects) (2012)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ag.html

Yet again, your ignorance is stunning



That half-baked aircraft carrier is the only Nuclear Carrier outside of the US Navy and it carries a total of 40 Rafale M, Super Étendard, E-2C Hawkeye, SA365 Dauphin, EC725 Caracal, AS532 Cougar. The Charlles De Gaulle is by itself allmost a match for the Algerian Airforce

500 long range anti-ship missiles? Pulling numbers out of your bum again?

Well, luckily the french have 2 Horizon-class air-defence destroyers and 2 Cassard-class air-defence destroyers

The Algerian navy does not have any modern active warships that are combat ready




All of which will make great targets for "Hammer" PGM's deployed from the Rafael

Not to mention that France has 400 Leclerc MBT's which are more than a match for 300 upgraded T-72's

And Algeria only has 1 898 APC's and IFVs you liar

Those paltry 1 898 will be facing 5 567 french IFV's and AFV's



You have proved that you have no idea what you are talking about, calling the Charles de Gaulle "half backed", doubling the number of IFV's the Algerians have, thinking the Su-30 can maintain air suprioerity when it is outnumbered 2:1 by the Rafael, thinking 3 frigates can stand up to a carrier and 10 destroyers

You are a fvcking slowpoke.

Algeria will have the absolyute christ smashed out of them. They dont stand a chance.

Algeria has 500 anti-ship missiles with very long ranges, my numbers are from SIPRI.

It took only about 4 anti-ship missiles with short range to devastate Britsh navy in Falklands.

Algeria has about 5,000 anti-tank guided missiles to consume every vehicle in France's army.....that is if the French survive the Algerian 90 km range BM Smerch rocket artillery.

Algeria has about 3,000 APC and IFV, many with missiles, go look on SIPRI you retaard.

Stop writing rubbish comments from your dream land
.

agaugust:


Algeria has 500 anti-ship missiles with very long ranges, my numbers are from SIPRI.

It took only about 4 anti-ship missiles with short range to devastate Britsh navy in Falklands.

Algeria has about 3,000 APC and IFV, many with missiles, go look on SIPRI you retaard.

Stop writing rubbish comments from your dream land
.

List these 500 antiship missiles

Yes, 4 missiles launched against a fleet operating 1000s of miles away from home, with no air-superiority and a fleet that was not designed for that kind of warfare in anycase. Try that against the French fleet with Horizon class destroyers, a carrier and 200 Rafaels and Mirages operating from HOME BASES

No, algeria has 1 898 APC's in service.

Post citations or get out.

Ps: I love how you have dropped the rest of your argument after getting so utterly buttwrecked

agaugust:


Algeria has 500 anti-ship missiles with very long ranges, my numbers are from SIPRI.

It took only about 4 anti-ship missiles with short range to devastate Britsh navy in Falklands.

Algeria has about 3,000 APC and IFV, many with missiles, go look on SIPRI you retaard.

Stop writing rubbish comments from your dream land
.

Also:

[size=20pt]YOU THOUGHT THAT THERE WAS NO CONSCRIPTION IN ALGERIA YOU FVCKING CLOWN[/size]

pavri:


Do you have a source to back up your claims or It is a tradition among you to throw claims based on just your nationalistic feelings ?

This pretty much sums up the South-African.

patches689:


List these 500 antiship missiles

Yes, 4 missiles launched against a fleet operating 1000s of miles away from home, with no air-superiority and a fleet that was not designed for that kind of warfare in anycase. Try that against the French fleet with Horizon class destroyers, a carrier and 200 Rafaels and Mirages operating from HOME BASES

No, algeria has 1 898 APC's in service.

Post citations or get out.

LOL , i just got banned posting the super long list of SIPRI weapons of Algeria. The anti-spam bot warned me first time that it was too long, I retried it again I got banned.

Go to SIPRI, Algeria has 500 anti-ship missiles and 3,000 APC-IFV, plus 5,000 anti-tank missiles.

Algerian military arsenal is so long you cannot post it on nairaland, 10 times longer than that of South Africa. LOL .

When you lose arguments to superior data and thinking, you resort to insults and foul language .

Born loser you are

Henry120:


This pretty much sums up the South-African.

Says the man who constantly states equipment to be superior than South African equipment but can never tell us how or why

AugustineAgain:


LOL , i just got banned posting the super long list of SIPRI weapons of Algeria. The anti-spam bot warned me first time that it was too long, I retried it again I got banned.

Go to SIPRI, Algeria has 500 anti-ship missiles and 3,000 APC-IFV, plus 5,000 anti-tank missiles.

When you lose arguments to superior data and thinking, you resort to insults and foul language .

Born loser you are

Algeria does not have 500 Anti-Ship missiles

Algeria has 1 898 APC's in service

You have been utterly obliterated in this argument.

And no - you didnt get banned - if you did there would be a small blank spot where your post was removed. Liar

Also, pic relted - not banned


[size=20pt]LIAR!!! Yet again you are exposed!![/size]

patches689:


Says the man who constantly states equipment to be superior than South African equipment but can never tell us how or why

What is the range of Rooivalk FLIR ? I ask again 1

pavri:



T-129 Atak has a protection against 12,7mm AP munitions in cockpit and motor section. Composite rotors are able to withstand against 12,7mm munitions as well.

Atak is inside of light attack helicopter group like Eurocopter tiger and USA AH-1W so Comparing Atak with those copters are more convenient. It is max. take off weights make copters light/heavy class. If costumer requires more agile, manouvrable and active copter on highly mountainous/ difficult terrain conditions to be used against various type of enemy assets, Then It is correct choice to go for light attack helicopters. Europe and Turkey prefers light attack helicopters, While USA hosts both Light and heavy class.

In additions, In terms of power to weight ratio, Atak is one of the most powerfull attack helicopter when It is compared with equivalents Tiger/AH-1W. That's why Turkish pilots call T129 as "Ferrari of sky". Even If Atak is classified as a light attack helicopter, She is able to cope with heavy attack helicopters in terms of some performance specifications such as range, endurance, rate of climb, speed. If you check out some T129 videos, You will see How agile and quick responsible It is.

At present, Turkey commenced trials of T-129 B1 variant which is a multi-role variant (Anti-tank/COIN/Surveillance mission on one platform that 360 degree covered by Electronic warfare sensors and computers to survive against coming missile).



Atak uses two different Anti-tank missile called Mizrak-UIIR(IIR guided fire forget) and Mizrak-UL (Lazer guided) (which is developed by Roketsan) against heavy armoured units . Mizrak tandem warhead is able to penetrate 1100mm+ RHA armours. IIR variant is more expensive than lazer guided variant, since IIR has fire/forget and top attack modes. Atak is able to carry 8 Mizrak missiles but in accordance with mission requirements, It can be increased to 12. It is a satisfied number of anti-tank missile payload When compared with AH-1W and Eurocopter Tiger.



For less armoured units, Turkish missile maker developed a cheaper/smaller precision strike missile called Cirit. The equivalents are under development phase so Cirit is the first 2,75 inch semi active lazer guided missile system of the World and Turkey offers this missile to costumers. United Arab emirated ordered 10,000 Cirit missiles from Turkey.



Out of those missiles, Atak is able to carry 76 unguided rockets. No need to mention Air to air missile payload.

Avionic systems are highly advanced and dijital. T-129 Atak B1 variant is offered with obstacle detection system, lazer based wire detection system and moving map options. MMW radar will be an option since It rises the cost but offers a serious strategic capability to costumers for land target detection/engagement options. Central computer is checking everything instead of you and when copter is under a danger, EW sensors receive the type of data and inform pilots regarding it and automatically generate a counter attack thanks to jammer, chaff, flare munitions.

STM moving map/Realistic 3D navigation mode
[img]http://focusflite.stm.com.tr/upload/Node/1817/xpics/s5.p1.jpg[/img]

Helmet mounted display system is developed by Aselsan. It reflects all neccessary flight parameters to pilots, While control 20mm gathling gun and advanced electro-optic Flir called AselFlir-300T with head movements. AselFlir-300T is able to identify and detect a target with a range from 25km.

[img]http://kokpit.aero//image/cache/data/Resimler/Resimler/aselsan/avci/atakkask2-600x400.jpg[/img]

BTW, Munition stores hosts 600 20mm munitions, not 500.

Atak production documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DFI3fNVqYI

Atak in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9M2SXVaKGY

Nigerian pilot students with T-129 Atak in Turkey
[img]http://kokpit.aero//image/data/P1120961.JPG[/img]

What platform are the Nigerians training on in turkey?

That is, if they are actually Nigerians. Nigerian officers were blue ceremonial uniforms not brown.

Henry120:


What platform are the Nigerians training on in turkey?

Its an expo

Dingus

AugustineAgain:


What is the range of Rooivalk FLIR ? I ask again 1

What is the range of the ATAK FLIR?

Anyway - why are you changing topics?? LIAR!!

patches689:


And no - you didnt get banned - if you did there would be a small blank spot where your post was removed. Liar

It's there, between Henry's post and yours on this page. Banned for posting Algeria's super duper long list of missiles and armoured vehicles copied form SIPRI.

500 AShM and 3,000 APC-IFV. No argument.

patches689:


What is the range of the ATAK FLIR?

25 km

AugustineAgain:


500 AShM and 3,000 APC-IFV. No argument.

You mean no citation

patches689:


Its an expo

Dingus

Read, understand properly, then you comment.

AugustineAgain:


25 km

Citation please

Henry120:


Read, understand properly, then you comment.

Question: What are they training on?

[Implication] Those in the picture

Answer: Nothing - the image is from an arms expo

Read *tick*
Understood *tick*
Comment *tick*

patches689:


You mean no citation

SIPRI citation. I got banned posting a long list. No argument. I win.

agaugust:



[size=16pt]

T-129 carries more modern weapons and avionics than the Rooivalk.

The Rooivalk is a 1980s concept helicopter with old 1990s equipment.

T-129 does back flips in the air, that combat maneuver will break the Rooivalk into pieces
.[/size]

In regards to your last sentence:

The Rooivalk was the first helicopter in the world to preform a backflip, thus again you prove to everybody that you know absolutely fvckall!

AugustineAgain:


It's there, between Henry's post and yours on this page. Banned for posting Algeria's super duper long list of missiles and armoured vehicles copied form SIPRI.

500 AShM and 3,000 APC-IFV. No argument.

Algerian Armored fighting Vehicals: 2000 (you still lied)
http://www.armyrecognition.com/algeria_algerian_army_land_ground_forces_uk/algeria_algerian_army_land_ground_armed_defense_forces_military_equipment_armored_vehicle_uk.html

Algerian armored fighting vehicals: 1800 (you still lied)
http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=algeria

Algerian armored fighting vehicals: 1700 (you guessed it... you lied)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/algeria/army-equipment.htm

It is so much fun pouring salt on your wounds.

patches689:


Question: What are they training on?

[Implication] Those in the picture

Answer: Nothing - the image is from an arms expo

Read *tick*
Understood *tick*
Comment *tick*

Read properly, make sure you understand, then comment......... so as to not look like a jackas$.


Go back to the comment I quoted, read it again.

AugustineAgain:



SIPRI citation. I got banned posting a long list. No argument. I win.

You win how?

O wait!!

Algerian Armored fighting Vehicals: 2000 (you still lied)
http://www.armyrecognition.com/algeria_algerian_army_land_ground_forces_uk/algeria_algerian_army_land_ground_armed_defense_forces_military_equipment_armored_vehicle_uk.html

Algerian armored fighting vehicals: 1800 (you still lied)
http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=algeria

Algerian armored fighting vehicals: 1700 (you guessed it... you lied)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/algeria/army-equipment.htm

It is so much fun pouring salt on your wounds.

Henry120:


Read properly, make sure you understand, then comment......... so as to not look like a jackas$.


Go back to the comment I quoted, read it again.

Question: What are they training on in Turkey?

They = Nigerian Pilots

Implication = Nigerian Pilots are training in Turkey

Evidence to support implication = Picture of Nigerian pilots in Turkey

Counter Statement: Those are Somali Pilots

Evidence to support counter statement: the actual event
http://kokpit.aero/kartallar-haftasi-kutlandi

Somali airforce cadet uniform (in turkey)
http://somalianewsroom.com/2014/10/24/putting-the-puzzle-together-what-does-the-future-hold-for-somalias-military-forces/somali-air-force-cadets-in-turkey/

Read *tick*
Understood *tick*
Applied logic in comment *tick*

Jacka$$