AreaFada2:
@Shymex, the intricacy is really mind-blowing. I have got the kids to see them too.

@Yoruba religions in Benin, it's very simple.

With Oranmiyan/Oba Eweka 1 dynasty came many Ife gods to Benin and maybe thereafter too. And mostly like several skilled people too.

Even the priest in charge of royal ancestral shrine (Chief Oloton of Benin) came with Oranmiyan from Ife. The same family is still in charge till now.
Freeborn born citizens of Ife & few visitors were the only people allowed to enter the palace without body tattoo (iwu) which every Benin adult used to have as a mark of Benin identity. Until about the 19th century.

In any case, in my part of Edo State, unique deities my ancestors returned with from OWO are still there, of course most are now Christians. Even Owo dialect spoken there is just gradually dying out now. And there are at least 25 villages with Eastern Yoruba heritage like that I know of.

Like the Romans, Benin people adopted gods even from vassal states. Like my family were imperial ambassadors in Owo. Princely ambassadors adopted such deities across areas that fell under Benin control at some point. It was a good diplomatic move too. A sign of respect from supposed overlords. Like Romans adopted Greek and Egyptian gods.

I consider Benin not as a tribe, but as a culture. Being a Benin person is belonging a central cultural heritage and the Oba as the custodian of tradition, traditional religion and culture. But actually it's a kaleidoscope of many traditions and cultures, some indigenous, some adopted. Many non-Benin cultures have survived within Benin Kingdom, in a way they might not have done elsewhere. Diversity seemed to have been quite normal, especially as mercenaries and skilled people from elsewhere were welcome.


For example, the large number of Benin people in Akure, Owo, Ondo, Ikare, Ekiti areas and so on called Ado-Akure (Edo n'Ekue) colloquially, till about 1914, now all go by Yoruba name and identity. Whereas, in the last 200 hundred years, two Benin Traditional Prime Ministers (the Iyase), doubling as head of the army and second-in-command to the Oba, were chosen from among Ado-Akure people, Okoro-Otun being the best known.
Another Iyase came from Brass (a son of Amayayagbo/King of Brass) in recent memory. Being of Benin royal ancestral ties. I know their descendants, who are all proud Benin people today. Even the current Iyase is of Urhobo heritage.

The clamour for tribal supremacy and independence in Nigeria makes it difficult to talk about our historical interdependence.

Sorry for the epistle.

Ideas are more important than anything else, including blood - the Benin people understood this, hence why they were once so great.

I hope Nigerians can come to understand this fact too so that it might also become great, on a global sphere.

Shebi the Binis said they have nothing to do with Yoruba people ancestrally, yet they worship well known Yoruba Gods like Olokun, Osun, Sango, Oduduwa and Ogun, while Yoruba do not worship any Edo/Bini gods/goddesses
But not doubt, the Yorubas and the Edos were by far the best art makers in all of Sub Saharan Africa. (Especially when it had to do with sculptures and carvings)

Assslayer:


Fool !

I forgive you.. Happy Sunday bro

quimicababes:


Never heard of the Owo but the Binis are definitely epic with regards to their arts.The only stuff I would put above them are the Ife heads.The Ife heads are out of this world and are extremely beautiful.I like them alot .Bini folks seem to be quite artistic... I even like their wedding regalia..the coral beads and intricacy is dope.

I know a little about Ifa but I actually don't follow it though I know folks who follow it.I got invited to attend Shango Day which is being held here on 7th of June but I am not religious at all.I still have mad appreciation for African religious systems however.

It is interesting to see Yoruba gods in Bini arts though on nairaland Edo and Yoruba folks seem to have a supremacy battle to see who birthed who lol.I stumbled across a Ghanaian who said they are the same but Europeans decided to classify them as diffeent folks...so I don't know.What can't be denied is that they are indeed related however.That's something I need to research more.

I get your point on not returning them to Naija but I dunno...I still don't think it should be in the UK.It is sad that Naija folks don't appreciate their indigenous culture but I would say Yoruba and Bini folks are putting up a good fight towards holding onto their indigenous cultures though more needs to be done.That's black man for you...he calls his own culture evil.Indians don't apologize for Hinduism and actively practice it.

I actually like the idea of developing Osun state for tourism with regards to culture/heritage.So yea they should try to get the Ife heads and put it there.Nika is doing a good job in trying to keep the art of adire alive also.

The superior race has always been yoruba/Edo see arts

seangy4konji:
Get a spy camera..Pen or wrist watch or glasses..Max 30 Quid and do the needful but i guess you are saying the truth.If you can do this then our goverment can request this things be sent back to us to put in our museums so they travel here to see them.

Our government is fully aware of this situation yet they have done nothing. Some of our politicians even boastfully acknowledge that Britain loves and displays our Arts and Crafts.

Every details on each of those art work has symbolic meaning. All those dates on them are all wrong except of the queen victoria art with a sad face. The date of the making of these artifacts are far back as 50,000 years ago. There are a lot more stolen and still hidden by the invaders(caucasians, arabs, indians, persians and few others).
It just goes to show that there is nothing new under the sun.

Most of these artworks are 'war booties' and must have changed hands countless times. Seeking to regain them are, at best, impensable.

Africans, though, are gifted.

Shymm3x:


Owo is a Yoruba town in present day Ondo state, and at the height of Bini empire - it was a Bini vassal state. Owo arts are somewhat similar to Bini arts in terms of finesse and artistic look, and also to Ijebu arts. I believe Bini did borrow a few things (especially Ivory and brass) from Owo arts and vice versa. Their arts are also extremely beautiful and gracious, with finesse. However, Bini tops them all.

I just think most folks on here dwell on the most frivolous things, just to spite one another, while obfuscating what the crux of the matter should actually be. Also, they also don't understand how important timeline is when it comes to history - ditto why the degree of influences is very important when comparing two cultures. And you can't really make a head-way in historical scholarship without putting these things into consideration. In as much as I believe the people who make up today's Edo and Yoruba people are most likely different - or perhaps migrated to the present day Nigeria via different migration waves (there's no archaeological proof/evidence that West Africa is the cradle of mankind - apart from the Bantus before the expansion and the 8,000-year old boat from Northern Nigeria, which could've been owned by anyone. I'll stick with the hypothesis that the groups in present day Nigeria migrated from the Nile Valley civilisation and from present day Middle East) - you can't deny the fact that the Kingship of both groups came from the same source (who most likely migrated from a different place and met the people from the two ethnic groups there before lording over them).

Then when you examine the fact that the Bini had an Oduduwa mask they were still worshipping in the 18th century and compare it to the Bini legend about the banished Ekaladerhan - it basically doesn't add up. Who worships a banished prince that has been ostracised/detribalised? Ditto the attention Bini arts gave to exalting Yoruba gods like Ogun, Olokun, Osun (I never knew they worshipped Osun till I saw the mask on this thread), etc.. Furthermore, the Yoruba legend about Oduduwa dropping from the sky (pure bollocks) also doesn't add up - hence the need for the two groups to drop the supremacy battle, to get where this mysterious Oduduwa came from. Who is/was he/she? And where exactly did he and his followers come from? Regardless, both groups will always be Ife and the custodians of Ife ought to do more, with the excavation of different sites, where things happened in the past.

In as much as they ought to be returned since they were stolen (the African pride in me and heart agree with this), but of what use would they be to folks who don't really know their worth and with a terrible maintenance culture? If not for the British museum, we wouldn't know about all these great works (and the British museum is yet to display the thousands of great artworks they stole from Nigeria - the ones on display are basically a small segment of what they have in their possession). Yes, our history is on display somewhere else, but it tells the world a story about our past - something we wouldn't be able to do, if they were with us - blessing in disguise.

Even in present day Nigeria, there are still loads of historical treasures under the ground that will tell us stories about our past, and help people connect the dots. However, what are the people doing to unravel these things? How many sites are Nigerians excavating? What's the tourism industry in Nigeria like? Osun state, where Ife is located, is a classic example: that place ought to be a UNESCO World Heritage Site, due to the history of the place, and because it birthed two of the biggest empires in West Africa - Bini and Oyo. However, due to how messed up Nigeria is, they don't care about these things. So, why waste those wonderful arts, by sending them to those who will most likely destroy them?

Owo & Bini are like siblings.

Goodnuel:
I forgive you.. Happy Sunday bro

It's OK bro, you got me upset shaa for talking down on African deity like that.

mmsen:


Donations account for a lot.

Also special exhibits bring in money.

As well as the events that are held there on the back of their ability to say that they have so many artifacts.

There's nothing 'British' about the 'British Museum', besides it's location. Most of the artifacts there were stolen from elsewhere - at least the most interesting ones are. It might be the largest collation of stolen goods in the world.

Lol, you're funny. Anyways the truth is they do a better job at preserving our artefacts and I'm Nigeria will get them back when she's ready.
Till then I enjoy the fact that in Britain I can see our artefacts for free when I want, and there're thousands of Nigerians here who do the same.

Then we both know something is wrong somewhere.

Caracta:


Our government is fully aware of this situation yet they have done nothing. Some of our politicians even boastfully acknowledge that Britain loves and displays our Arts and Crafts.

Shymm3x:


Owo is a Yoruba town in present day Ondo state, and at the height of Bini empire - it was a Bini vassal state. Owo arts are somewhat similar to Bini arts in terms of finesse and artistic look, and also to Ijebu arts. I believe Bini did borrow a few things (especially Ivory and brass) from Owo arts and vice versa. Their arts are also extremely beautiful and gracious, with finesse. However, Bini tops them all.

right! Owo began the ivory armlets and such skill was taken up to Bini first through trade and then during the imperial period over Owo

I just think most folks on here dwell on the most frivolous things, just to spite one another, while obfuscating what the crux of the matter should actually be. Also, they also don't understand how important timeline is when it comes to history - ditto why the degree of influences is very important when comparing two cultures. And you can't really make a head-way in historical scholarship without putting these things into consideration. In as much as I believe the people who make up today's Edo and Yoruba people are most likely different - or perhaps migrated to the present day Nigeria via different migration waves (there's no archaeological proof/evidence that West Africa is the cradle of mankind - apart from the Bantus before the expansion and the 8,000-year old boat from Northern Nigeria, which could've been owned by anyone. I'll stick with the hypothesis that the groups in present day Nigeria migrated from the Nile Valley civilisation and from present day Middle East) - you can't deny the fact that the Kingship of both groups came from the same source (who most likely migrated from a different place and met the people from the two ethnic groups there before lording over them).

Would be nice to know what makes u assume Edo and Yoruba(and igbo) didn't split in Nigeria From a single prototype culture

Then when you examine the fact that the Bini had an Oduduwa mask they were still worshipping in the 18th century and compare it to the Bini legend about the banished Ekaladerhan - it basically doesn't add up.
Who worships a banished prince that has been ostracised/detribalised? Ditto the attention Bini arts gave to exalting Yoruba gods like Ogun, Olokun, Osun (I never knew they worshipped Osun till I saw the mask on this thread), etc..

Truly it doesn't add up. Even the Oba of Bini is praised as "son of Oodua of Ife" no reference to any Ekaladerhan

But to the talk about the Bini God - Osun, it's not the same wit Osun in yoruba. ..But Osanyin/Osain

Furthermore, the Yoruba legend about Oduduwa dropping from the sky (pure bollocks) also doesn't add up - hence the need for the two groups to drop the supremacy battle, to get where this mysterious Oduduwa came from. Who is/was he/she? And where exactly did he and his followers come from? Regardless, both groups will always be Ife and the custodians of Ife ought to do more, with the excavation of different sites, where things happened in the past.

lmao
In all my life I've never heard anyone say Olufe Oduduwa dropped from the sky. . This is what the ignorant uninitiated say
Only on the Internet you find things like this

People confuse the Spirit( often personified as a female) with the king

But I find it strange that no brass or terracotta head has been identified as the great king, there's Obamakin, there's Obalufon II

In as much as they ought to be returned since they were stolen (the African pride in me and heart agree with this), but of what use would they be to folks who don't really know their worth and with a terrible maintenance culture? If not for the British museum, we wouldn't know about all these great works (and the British museum is yet to display the thousands of great artworks they stole from Nigeria - the ones on display are basically a small segment of what they have in their possession). Yes, our history is on display somewhere else, but it tells the world a story about our past - something we wouldn't be able to do, if they were with us - blessing in disguise.

Even in present day Nigeria, there are still loads of historical treasures under the ground that will tell us stories about our past, and help people connect the dots. However, what are the people doing to unravel these things? How many sites are Nigerians excavating? What's the tourism industry in Nigeria like? Osun state, where Ife is located, is a classic example: that place ought to be a UNESCO World Heritage Site, due to the history of the place, and because it birthed two of the biggest empires in West Africa - Bini and Oyo. However, due to how messed up Nigeria is, they don't care about these things. So, why waste those wonderful arts, by sending them to those who will most likely destroy them?

Its a pity really. The average Nigerian christian and muslim hates or has no knowledge of his cultural heritage

They has sold out our culture and deities

That signifies the depiction of GOD's Assembly. There are 24 Kings surrounding the GOD, 11 kings on one side, and 13 on the other. 12 Kings and 12 Queens. Who does the face depict? Anybody?

scholes0:
Head of Iyoba (Iya Oba)
Royal court of benin, Edo People, Nigeria.

Goodnuel:
*Singing*

In Timaya's voice*

Some worship idols, some worship juju!!
Me I just d look them like say dem be mumu!!
How you go just the worship a man made god oooo

I will not bow down...


>>>>>

An example of those who hate at the same time have no clue of their history, Culture and entire identity

The God's are Angry. They missed Home that is why Nigeria has not yet develop

Shymm3x:


Yes, it's epic. I'm a big fan of the finesse of Bini arts and crafts. The Binis definitely had the best arts and crafts from present day Nigeria, due to the supreme finesse involved in the works of those practitioners. Then I'd go for Owo after Bini. Though Ife birthed the two places - Ife arts were more realism than finesse, apart from the supremely marvellous Ife head (ori olokun), which is over 700 years old, and definitely the greatest masterpiece out of present day Nigeria. But the Binis killed the game - props to them.

Err, I'm sure you're conversant with Yoruba religion - what do you think about the elaborate representation of Yoruba gods (Osun, Olokun, Ogun, and Oduduwa) in Bini arts?

Lmao @ returning them to Nigeria. That would be disastrous. Most Nigerians are too sucked into Abrahamic religions and they won't appreciate the greatness of these artworks. Then you have got educated illiterates who still think the white man brought civilisation to Africa, due to the fact that they don't understand what civilisation entails. Also, even if they were to return them, where would they keep them and maximise the utilisation of these great works, in a country where nothing works and all the infrastructures are dilapidated with zero maintenance culture? Nigeria isn't Egypt and the people don't understand anything - apart from white Jesus and Allah. Anything else is of the notorious devil/satan/lucifer.

Shymm3x - You did well by bringing these artwork to the fore, but at the same time, subtly trying to 'kill' the truth of the advanced Benin history which is glearing in thesee SAME artswork, with an age-long Yoruba lies.

Hear You: "... Though Ife birthed the two places..."

That line was a big LIE, or at best you're only spewing the Yoruba version of Oduduwa while denying the Benin version. Sorry, Ife did NOT birth Benin. In fact, Benin was already great, glorious and EPOCHAL before Ife in the ancient days. These arts you shown here even proved this facts, yet you decided to SMUGGLE in a less-fancied history to perpetuate an age-long tribal attack on the Benin history.


You Wrote: "... Ife arts were more realism than finesse, apart from the supremely marvellous Ife head (ori olokun), which is over 700 years old, and definitely the greatest masterpiece out of present day Nigeria. But the Binis killed the game - props to them.

Who says Ife art were truly 700 years old? Who detected or determined their ages? Who are the historians, archaeologists and international curators and critics who adjudged the IFE Arts as "...greatest masterpiece out of present day Nigeria"?

There's no where in any academic archives or records about Ife arts being 700yerar - except in some Yoruba journals. Those backyard dates were inputted to sell an 'older' artworks which were in fact COPIED from Benin.

Who taught you that artworks are judged this way? What are the criteria? My friend, old artworks only depicted arts... cultures, tradition, history etc of the people. We know what the Benin arts symboliz[/b]e both in the culture and spirituality, [b]so tell us what does the Ife arts symbolizes? And why do you have to make UNFOUNDED claims to patch up?

And do you know Benin posses artworks and monuments such as the Benin Moat (known as the great Benin wall) dated since since 8-9AD? There is none like this anywhere in the whole Africa except the old Egypt. Please note this is NOT a personal claim - you can find this FACT in any International archaeological and historical records and repertoire about African/Black.


You Wrote: "... Err, I'm sure you're conversant with Yoruba religion - what do you think about the elaborate representation of Yoruba gods (Osun, Olokun, Ogun, and Oduduwa) in Bini arts?

And you veered from REALITY into Ignorant claims and assertions. And you clearly open up your vast IGNORANT of the origin of those gods.

First I want you to realize that Benin established the Lagos Monarchy and its palace culture and tradition, many of which are still there up till today. As far back as 14th Century, Benin was already firmly in charge of a large portion of present Southern Nigeria - which spread along the coast that covers present day Ekiti/Ondo, the whole of Edo, most parts of Niger Delta, parts of present day Igboland, down to Lagos and bordered Togo.

In the space of Benin dominance, influence, partnership and indirect rulership which lasted till late 19 Century (though waned before then), it spread its cultural and traditional worships, names, deities which include ONOKUN (olokun) and others.

Sorry my bro - go find out from the archives the ORIGIN of those gods. They're not YORUBA origin but were either left behind towns/cities under old Benin... or carried along by others (Yorubas, Igalas) who were once under the Benin rule. Some of the those gods you have in present day Yoruba were from other tribes such as Nupe, Igala, Togoe and Benin Republic etc.

The Word/Title "OBA"

Also I hope you won't make the mistake to claim the word/title OBA is Yoruba origin? I hope you know OBA (meaning the supreme King) is 100% Benin origin, which came to present day Yorubaland when a Benin Prince was installed as the Oba of Lagos.

Also in history, it's important to spell out origin/etymology/association/influence to enable OPEN clarify. Do you know why I said this? Because the world "Yoruba" came into existence in the late 19th Century.

Rotimi47:
Owo & Bini are like siblings.

Owo and Benin were NOT siblings. I love when a great CLAIM is made, you back it up with more facts and summary.

As early as the reign of Oba Ovonramwen, before he was overthrown by the British in 1897, the whole of the present day Ekiti/Ondo was a vassal of the Benin King. They paid tribute and many of their language (word) and tradition were Benin which still exist today.

NigerMan1:


[s]Shymm3x - You did well by bringing these artwork to the fore, but at the same time, subtly trying to 'kill' the truth of the advanced Benin history which is glearing in thesee SAME artswork, with an age-long Yoruba lies.

Hear You: "... Though Ife birthed the two places..."

That line was a big LIE, or at best you're only spewing the Yoruba version of Oduduwa while denying the Benin version. Sorry, Ife did NOT birth Benin. In fact, Benin was already great, glorious and EPOCHAL before Ife in the ancient days. These arts you shown here even proved this facts, yet you decided to SMUGGLE in a less-fancied history to perpetuate an age-long tribal attack on the Benin history.


You Wrote: "... Ife arts were more realism than finesse, apart from the supremely marvellous Ife head (ori olokun), which is over 700 years old, and definitely the greatest masterpiece out of present day Nigeria. But the Binis killed the game - props to them.

Who says Ife art were truly 700 years old? Who detected or determined their ages? Who are the historians, archaeologists and international curators and critics who adjudged the IFE Arts as "...greatest masterpiece out of present day Nigeria"?

There's no where in any academic archives or records about Ife arts being 700yerar - except in some Yoruba journals. Those backyard dates were inputted to sell an 'older' artworks which were in fact COPIED from Benin.

Who taught you that artworks are judged this way? What are the criteria? My friend, old artworks only depicted arts... cultures, tradition, history etc of the people. We know what the Benin arts symboliz[/b]e both in the culture and spirituality, [b]so tell us what does the Ife arts symbolizes? And why do you have to make UNFOUNDED claims to patch up?

And do you know Benin posses artworks and monuments such as the Benin Moat (known as the great Benin wall) dated since since 8-9AD? There is none like this anywhere in the whole Africa except the old Egypt. Please note this is NOT a personal claim - you can find this FACT in any International archaeological and historical records and repertoire about African/Black.


You Wrote: "... Err, I'm sure you're conversant with Yoruba religion - what do you think about the elaborate representation of Yoruba gods (Osun, Olokun, Ogun, and Oduduwa) in Bini arts?

And you veered from REALITY into Ignorant claims and assertions. And you clearly open up your vast IGNORANT of the origin of those gods.

First I want you to realize that Benin established the Lagos Monarchy and its palace culture and tradition, many of which are still there up till today. As far back as 14th Century, Benin was already firmly in charge of a large portion of present Southern Nigeria - which spread along the coast that covers present day Ekiti/Ondo, the whole of Edo, most parts of Niger Delta, parts of present day Igboland, down to Lagos and bordered Togo.

In the space of Benin dominance, influence, partnership and indirect rulership which lasted till late 19 Century (though waned before then), it spread its cultural and traditional worships, names, deities which include ONOKUN (olokun) and others.

Sorry my bro - go find out from the archives the ORIGIN of those gods. They're not YORUBA origin but were either left behind towns/cities under old Benin... or carried along by others (Yorubas, Igalas) who were once under the Benin rule. Some of the those gods you have in present day Yoruba were from other tribes such as Nupe, Igala, Togoe and Benin Republic etc.

The Word/Title "OBA"

Also I hope you won't make the mistake to claim the word/title OBA is Yoruba origin? I hope you know OBA (meaning the supreme King) is 100% Benin origin, which came to present day Yorubaland when a Benin Prince was installed as the Oba of Lagos.

Also in history, it's important to spell out origin/etymology/association/influence to enable OPEN clarify. Do you know why I said this? Because the world "Yoruba" came into existence in the late 19th Century.[/s]

Lies ....

Nigerman1 don dey spew ignorance since....even till 1897? Oookay....perhaps I should know whom the Ekitis were fighting their domination in Kiriji war then....Like Shymm3x said, Ife birth those two great Empires and that's the bedrock of the two civilizations and that's also why the heads of benin kings where buried there in ancient times. It is
symbolic.

Shymm3x:


Owo is a Yoruba town in present day Ondo state, and at the height of Bini empire - it was a Bini vassal state. Owo arts are somewhat similar to Bini arts in terms of finesse and artistic look, and also to Ijebu arts. I believe Bini did borrow a few things (especially Ivory and brass) from Owo arts and vice versa. Their arts are also extremely beautiful and gracious, with finesse. However, Bini tops them all.

I just think most folks on here dwell on the most frivolous things, just to spite one another, while obfuscating what the crux of the matter should actually be. Also, they also don't understand how important timeline is when it comes to history - ditto why the degree of influences is very important when comparing two cultures. And you can't really make a head-way in historical scholarship without putting these things into consideration. In as much as I believe the people who make up today's Edo and Yoruba people are most likely different - or perhaps migrated to the present day Nigeria via different migration waves (there's no archaeological proof/evidence that West Africa is the cradle of mankind - apart from the Bantus before the expansion and the 8,000-year old boat from Northern Nigeria, which could've been owned by anyone. I'll stick with the hypothesis that the groups in present day Nigeria migrated from the Nile Valley civilisation and from present day Middle East) - you can't deny the fact that the Kingship of both groups came from the same source (who most likely migrated from a different place and met the people from the two ethnic groups there before lording over them).

Then when you examine the fact that the Bini had an Oduduwa mask they were still worshipping in the 18th century and compare it to the Bini legend about the banished Ekaladerhan - it basically doesn't add up. Who worships a banished prince that has been ostracised/detribalised? Ditto the attention Bini arts gave to exalting Yoruba gods like Ogun, Olokun, Osun (I never knew they worshipped Osun till I saw the mask on this thread), etc.. Furthermore, the Yoruba legend about Oduduwa dropping from the sky (pure bollocks) also doesn't add up - hence the need for the two groups to drop the supremacy battle, to get where this mysterious Oduduwa came from. Who is/was he/she? And where exactly did he and his followers come from? Regardless, both groups will always be Ife and the custodians of Ife ought to do more, with the excavation of different sites, where things happened in the past.

In as much as they ought to be returned since they were stolen (the African pride in me and heart agree with this), but of what use would they be to folks who don't really know their worth and with a terrible maintenance culture? If not for the British museum, we wouldn't know about all these great works (and the British museum is yet to display the thousands of great artworks they stole from Nigeria - the ones on display are basically a small segment of what they have in their possession). Yes, our history is on display somewhere else, but it tells the world a story about our past - something we wouldn't be able to do, if they were with us - blessing in disguise.

Even in present day Nigeria, there are still loads of historical treasures under the ground that will tell us stories about our past, and help people connect the dots. However, what are the people doing to unravel these things? How many sites are Nigerians excavating? What's the tourism industry in Nigeria like? Osun state, where Ife is located, is a classic example: that place ought to be a UNESCO World Heritage Site, due to the history of the place, and because it birthed two of the biggest empires in West Africa - Bini and Oyo. However, due to how messed up Nigeria is, they don't care about these things. So, why waste those wonderful arts, by sending them to those who will most likely destroy them?

Kool...I'll look up Owo arts.I see this thread done get infiltrated with Edo/Yoruba supremacy stuff lol.It is sad yes.

They should definitely do more excavations and research at Ile-Ife and othe sites..especially with that Oodua figure.Not solving it,it's like having your history in limbo.Is it a matter of lack of funding or trained archaeologists? Aren't there a significant Yoruba traditionalist population who can push for this as I expect this might interest them more than Christians and Muslims?

scholes0:
Royal Ivory carved bracelet
Nigeria; Yoruba, Owo subgroup

Do they still practice carving etc or has it died off?

oyo, ife , bini and igbo arts.

PabloAfricanus:


Interesting and enlightening.
Could you please create a thread to further discuss this.
Wondering why Bini's great history is almost lost to even Edos themselves.
These little details are going to be important in the days ahead...for posterity's sake.
Or if possible comment on a thread I've picked interest in...politics section.
Been trashing out history with friends from the South East who are all galled up by the claims of Ikas and Anioma
that they came from Benin.
My little research could find no evidence save the presence of Bini and Igalla settlers from Agbor to Onitsha...who were in the
minority.
Would love to know more about the relationship between Bini and the Igbos on both sides of the Niger.
Looking forward to your response. Tnx.

.

Thanks@ PabloAfricanus.
@Edo History lost on People. This is not a concidence. It's sadly also not unique to Edo/Benin Kingdom. It's common to most colonised for great Kingdoms/empires in non-Caucasian areas.
The civilisation seen in Nubia, Benin, Oyo, Buganda, Zimbabwe, Ngola (now Angola) and others didn't fit the Western narrative of inferior/sub-human savages. Calculated attemts were made to give credit to pyramids of Nubia to Egyptians, Zimbabwe architecture to unknown caucasians who one somehow got there first, Benin arts to influence from Arabia and so on.

For a long time, we were not thought smart enough to develop advanced systems of government/administration/organisation/warfare, arts, technology/metallurgy and so on.
When it became obvious that we actually were or are, it was played down and barely mentioned in colonial text books.

Then also consider the fall of Benin empire in 1897. It was imperative for the British to limit the influence of Benin to the area around Benin alone. As a pre-condition for restoration of the monarchy, Eweka II had to sign away Benin rights to provinces in Eastern Yorubaland, parts of Edo State, some areas of Bayelsa & Rivers State (like Degema), Delta State, notably Warri, whose Olu of Itsekiri (as it was known then) stool had been left vacant for decades by Oba of Benin as punishment for alleged insurbordination.

Even Ado-Akure people from Ondo/Ekiti bringing tributes/gift to Eweka II upon coronation in 1914 were prevented from coming by the British as that would somehow keep them in touch with Benin. Thereby perpetuation the Oba's influence.

Now Benin is just one minority "tribe" within Nigeria. Now we talk of Wazobia.

To be continued......

NigerMan1:

[s]
Owo and Benin were NOT siblings. I love when a great CLAIM is made, you back it up with more facts and summary.

As early as the reign of Oba Ovonramwen, before he was overthrown by the British in 1897, the whole of the present day Ekiti/Ondo was a vassal of the Benin King. They paid tribute and many of their language (word) and tradition were Benin which still exist today. [/s]

As at 1893 Ekiti had become a powerful independent united nation who fought the ruthless and daring Ibadan to a stand still to secure that. Bini never held the "whole" of Ekiti... wat like 3 kingdoms out of 16 has turned into "whole"

anyway no reason to take an Esan (who's history is unknown) anti-yoruba Bini slave seriously

musicwriter:
@Shymm3x

These are all works stolen from Africa!. There's none among them that wasn't stolen. The United Kingdom wasn't the only country involved in the epic theft, there're stockpiles of African artefacts in France, Germany, USA, Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, Portugal. The Germans even collected human skulls from Namibia or Zambia (not skulls of dead people but skulls harvested by willfully killing the locals and cooking their heads off fresh for the purpose of showcasing their skulls back in Europe as a trophy).

Not only was pre-slavery Africa as par Europe, we were actually ahead of Europe in arts. The British for example saw the works of art from Bini kingdom and they became envious and killed the king, destroyed the community and stole the arts in broad day light. Watch the videos on this link for prove www.africason.com/2015/05/elite-brainwashing-last-stage-of-mental.html

And, I have this unreleased song called "African artefacts" where I wrote about this. Unfortunately, music is so dead in Nigeria now that many think of my kind of music as being intellectual. Should you have link to record label over there interested in Bob Marley's style of music let them get in touch with me.

Go sidon jare, Africans are their own worst enemies.
The same people worship their enslavers like god.
The same people have used the religions intrduced by these murderers as their constitution
The same Africans are to be found worshipping white skin

You are both saying the same things which is right and 100% correct, Only musicwriter did not include persia, and the arab nations.
We lack anthropological knowledge, If not we won't see these magnificent artifact as mere art. They are mathematics of anatomy, cosmology, astronomy, history, spiritualism(not and never religion), and sciences. They were not for decoration to beautify, rather, they are a reminder to all Black people on earth as one.
And those artifacts are not less than 6000 years old, some of them goes in past to as 35,000 to 50,000 years ago.
If one must see clearly some of those artifacts, One would note that, some of them are so precise and on point that an ordinary hand couldn't have made them, It goes to show that we had electricity before the white or other races came in contact with us.

According to some of our Elders, all over the world, and according to the revelations in the bible, it mentions 24 elders, many other culture would say 12 aditya in india, 12 Anunnakis according to sumer, 12 exalted ones in arab/white islam, 12 particles of matters in sciences, 12 major scientists etc. ince we don't come or exist alone but in pair (positive and negative), negative not in the bad sense, but as a polarity and complement of the positive, then 12 by 2 becomes 24. 12 Kings and 12 Queens (these are all the elders, that head the 12 nations of Black people on this earth). other races just copied it. Every Black person on this earth belongs to one of the main 12 nations which came out from just ONE. One of all the Elders is the Head, that we all call God, Allah, they take turns of rule. each rule will last 25,000 years, then the next 25,000 years rule will be by a Woman/Queen, as this present one is rule by A Man, it works according to the astronomy and geography of our earth's movement with time.
This information is told in the artifact called
Head of Iyoba (Iya Oba)
Royal court of benin, Edo People, Nigeria. on this tread. watch it closely.
The head they surround, which the bible say, they surround. is called the cosmic unity of all Black people; that is what is called THE ONE GOD/THE MOST HIGH.

j1mmy:


Go sidon jare, Africans are their own worst enemies.
The same people worship their enslavers like god.
The same people have used the religions intrduced by these murderers as their constitution
The same Africans are to be found worshipping white skin