pkjag:
Although they do, they still do not acknowledge explanations such as the word swahili did not come from the arab words sahil and sahel, the african linguists have given a better explanation of how it might have come about.

I believe (well western linguists believe) the word Swahili comes from the Arabic word Sawahil which mean coastal dweller (or something to that effect). Personally I can see the connection:
Sawahil -> Sawahili -> Swahili.

pkjag:
Here in africa you need to cause most indigenous languages are not translated and to understand their cultures, naming, practices, ceremonies you have to at least understand the language if you come from a different place.

At the bolded part -That's more of an anthropology area of study.
However to be fair I do agree that linguists should have a basic level of fluency with any language that they are studying.

pkjag:
There are also some phrases that you can't directly translate into a language, so to make more headway you have to understand the language.

Those are called idioms.

pkjag:
These days most western linguists studying african languages rely on the african linguists and institutions, if they didn't do that they'd be making more mistakes like they used to in the precolonial times.

That's a good thing. Listen I'm not dissing African linguists or studies about African and Africans. All I'm saying is that not all western linguists are bad, flawed etc when it comes to African languages or studies in general. On the contrary many are very good. Remember a long time ago they thought that the Nubian languages weren't Nilo-Saharan but Afro-Asiatic and not indigenous to Africa yet it was a westerner that found otherwise.

BlackKenichi:

I believe (well western linguists believe) the word Swahili comes from the Arabic word Sawahil which mean coastal dweller 9or something to that effect). Personally I can see the connection:
Sawahil -> Sawahili -> Swahili.

See sawahil isn't very satisfactory to african linguists, see this is where speaking an african language is beneficial. The swahili initially called themselves Wangozi and spoke Kingozi. There are numerous folklore among the swahili and Mijikenda of Kenya. One of them goes that when the arabs landed in africa around the place where Lamu island is circa 300-700 A.D, they met the local island people whom they asked who lived in those areas. The Wangozi people told them that sisi ni wa siwa hili which means that we are of this island, so the arabs called them wa siwa hili meaning of island this which later became waswahili the prefix wa means of and is also a plural for many nouns.

Also the sawahil word doesn't explain where the ki prefix came from, in swahili, it is common to add a suffix in most arabic words, to my knowledge there is no arabic word in swahili that has a prefix to the root. In arabic the swahili language/people is written as
[size=13pt]السواحلية[/size] which reads al sawahileeya, the al in arabic is either a definite or indefinite article depending on the sentence structure so it might mean the or a. See no ki anywhere, they don't bother to differentiate the people or the language, both adopt the same form. The sahel/sahil word means desert, Lamu/east african coast is not a desert, the arabic word for island is jazeera. So the arabs might have adopted the word, it doesn't have any connotation with regards to the swahili way of life. These are some of the arguments being made by east african linguists, something which could never have been done by a white man.

pkjag:

See sawahil isn't very satisfactory to african linguists, see this is where speaking an african language is beneficial. The swahili initially called themselves Wangozi and spoke Kingozi. There are numerous folklore among the swahili and Mijikenda of Kenya. One of them goes that when the arabs landed in africa around the place where Lamu island is circa 300-700 A.D, they met the local island people whom they asked who lived in those areas. The Wangozi people told them that sisi ni wa siwa hili which means that we are of this island, so the arabs named them wa siwa hili meaning of island this which later became waswahili the prefix wa means of and is also a plural for many nouns.

Hmm! Interesting. Never heard of that explanation.

Am getting educated here.

Just as a demonstration, I sat among the Pokomo for a few weeks. They were speaking their language which is very, very close to Swahili. It was my first time to hear it and you know what, in a matter of hours, I did not need an interpreter. It's just like the relation between other Bantus sharing the same region like the difference in the Luhya Subtribes or between the Kikuyu and Kamba languages.

BlackKenichi:

Hmm! Interesting. Never heard of that explanation.

Yep blame it on western propaganda on african education, i also heard it few years after i cleared highschool after getting drunk on a lot of their misconceptions. See the way the arabs can't say swa- they say sawa-, well sawa means okay in swahili. And in standard arabic (excluding the quran) there are no vowels (except alif, the first letter) indicated in writing (there are only three a, i and u), so you use previously taught pronunciation to identify a word once you see the root, so the root becomes swhl, therefore you can insert any vowels to suit your tongue, since the word doesn't have an arabic origin they used sawahil instead of siwa hili probably because it didn't sound right to them.

muafrika:
Am getting educated here.
Just as a demonstration, I sat among the Pokomo for a few weeks. They were speaking their language which is very, very close to Swahili. It was my first time to hear it and you know what, in a matter of hours, I did not need an interpreter. It's just like the relation between other Bantus sharing the same region like the difference in the Luhya Subtribes or between the Kikuyu and Kamba languages.

The Taita and Pokomo are not Mijikenda though their languages are close to swahili, i hear the Giriama in Malindi are the closest, it's like swahili with a funny accent but without the arab words

BlackKenichi:

Not necessarily. Many bantu languages use other prefixes like "isi", "ki" etc. I'm not going out my way to disprove linguists that have studied languages more in depth than ordinary people.

some basics of bantu linguistics:

Muntu/moto=====>bantu/bato
mukongo/mokongo===>bakongo
muhindi/mohindi====>bahindi
muhausa/mohausa===>bahausa

I=ki=chi=li=gi and sometimes =e

itambala=kitambala=chitambala=litambala...etc..=women headgear

chikaya=kikaya=ikaya=likaya= plant leave

You use the prefix "isi/esi/osi( plurial asi/basi/agi/besi) mainly to express somebody origin.

isikongo/esikongo/igikongo==>somebody of kongo origin
isikuyu/igikuyu/esikuyu====>somebody of kuyu origin.To call person a kikuyu doesn't make any sense coz kikuyu is the language spoken by asikuyu/agikuyu(those of kuyu origin);the kikongo is the language spoken by asikongo/agikongo/basikongo/besikongo.Therefore there are no kikuyus in Kenya,there are agikuyu/asikuyu/besikuyu or kuyus in English.

etc....etc

Happy Madaraka day to all Kenyans on Nairaland

pkjag:
Happy Madaraka day to all Kenyans on Nairaland

Hey,
Happy Madaraka day¡¡¡ and to all Kenyans¡
It's the 51st anniversary right? Did Museveni get to talk? I love his anti colonial freestyle speeches with words like "Wabeberu."

muafrika:

Hey,
Happy Madaraka day¡¡¡ and to all Kenyans¡
It's the 51st anniversary right? Did Museveni get to talk? I love his anti colonial freestyle speeches with words like "Wabeberu."

Yes he talked about Al shabaab and the guerilla troops in Uganda and his swahili is actually very good, the South african deputy president was also there, kwani where were you?

pkjag:

Yes he talked about Al shabaab and the guerilla troops in Uganda and his swahili is actually very good, the South african deputy president was also there, kwani where were you?

Mashambani.

BlackKenichi:

Wow!

I love Cushitic mixed Bantu women like the Kikuyu, Meru, Kamba, Tanzanian women etc. They are beautiful.
I didn't know Sheila Mwanyiga is a Taita.

She is not mixed with Cushitic. Stop claiming my people

Ajuran:



She is not mixed with Cushitic. Stop claiming my people

Tut tut tut. I don't claim Cushitics. Genetics does!

BlackKenichi:

Tut tut tut. I don't claim Cushitics. Genetics does!

You are not Cushitic or have Cushitic DNA, no more than a White man, Chinese or Arab. Infact Arabs/North Africans have more Cushitic DNA than Bantus.

Bantu forever warriors strong people and so proud . I m lucky to be one of them thank God

Ajuran:

You are not Cushitic or have Cushitic DNA, no more than a White man, Chinese or Arab. Infact Arabs/North Africans have more Cushitic DNA than Bantus.

I never said I had Cushitic DNA. I said East African Bantus from Kenya, Tanzania, Burundi and Rwanda have cushitic DNA.This has been shown and proven by professional geneticists. Unless you can show otherwise, deal with it. Also MENAs don't have as much Cushitic blood.

BlackKenichi:

I never said I had Cushitic DNA. I said East African Bantus from Kenya, Tanzania, Burundi and Rwanda have cushitic DNA.This has been shown and proven by professional geneticists. Unless you can show otherwise, deal with it. Also MENAs don't have as much Cushitic blood.

Seriously, some of those studies make a lot of assumptions. I know we do not have any cushitic blood in us because we love peace. And we don't like to blow ourselves up.

Nayah:
Bantu forever warriors strong people and so proud . I m lucky to be one of them thank God

Me too @@

muafrika:

Seriously, some of those studies make a lot of assumptions. I know we do not have any cushitic blood in us because we love peace. And we don't like to blow ourselves up.

LOL!
Many genetic studies done by credible professional geneticists seem to show that many East African Bantu ethnic groups have Cushitic blood!

BlackKenichi:

LOL!
Many genetic studies done by credible professional geneticists seem to show that many East African Bantu ethnic groups have Cushitic blood!

And what particular haplogroup would that be. The first humans were in the East African region before dispersal to the rest of Africa and the world. Besides, Cushites only migrated from the North less than 2,000 years ago and found Bantus alredy settled in the region.

Somalis displaced the Oromo who were at the time occupying the Southern Ethiopia regions, who inturn responded to the southward push by pushing neighbouring Bantus downwards. Bantus had settled as far East as Shungwaya, currently a coastal point in Southern Somalia and this is considered the most Easterly, and recent dispersal point.

My point is, these people were adverse parties, and African tribes did not intermarry in those days, with the exception of the age old practice of conquest where enemies men were killed and their women taken as bounty - Bantus did that a lot.

Also, consider the short statured people who were the original East Africans. Nobody seems to consider them and their huge contribution to the current demography of East African populations, Nilotes included.

Finally, Bantu looks found in East Africa can be found in Southern Africa, and Central Africa. Cushites are a negligible populace and are not found in Central and Southern African countries.

As for the scientists, they seem to limit the number of haplogroup variations that are considered African and more specifically, subsaharan African, while at the same time acknowledging Africa as the origin of Mankind. Is it so strange for the original to have aspects of what mutated out of it?

Lovely.

muafrika:

And what particular haplogroup would that be.

Cushitic Mt-DNA L0, L3x, L3a, L4, L5, M1 and U6 has been found in East African Bantu women like the Kikuyu and Tanzanian Bantus.
Cushitic Y-DNA E-M215* and T has also been found has been found in East African Bantu men like the Kikuyu and Tanzanian Bantus

muafrika:
Besides, Cushites only migrated from the North less than 2,000 years ago and found Bantus alredy settled in the region.

If anything it's the other way round. Cushitic peoples went as far as Southern Tanzania. The Iraqw people are fine example of a surviving relic of South Cushitic people in Tanzania

muafrika:
Somalis displaced the Oromo who were at the time occupying the Southern Ethiopia regions, who inturn responded to the southward push by pushing neighbouring Bantus downwards. Bantus had settled as far East as Shungwaya, currently a coastal point in Southern Somalia and this is considered the most Easterly, and recent dispersal point.

No argument from me.

muafrika:
My point is, these people were adverse parties, and African tribes did not intermarry in those days, with the exception of the age old practice of conquest where enemies men were killed and their women taken as bounty - Bantus did that a lot.

A common misconception. Not all migrations involve bloodshed. And many migrations did lead to intermixing between the migrants and natives.

muafrika:
Also, consider the short statured people who were the original East Africans. Nobody seems to consider them and their huge contribution to the current demography of East African populations, Nilotes included.

Says who?

muafrika:
Finally, Bantu looks found in East Africa can be found in Southern Africa, and Central Africa.

I doubt someone like Nelson Mandela could fit in Central and East African bantu populations.

muafrika:
Cushites are a negligible populace and are not found in Central and Southern African countries.

That's because the Bantu populations of East Africa have absorbed them genetically.

BlackKenichi:

Cushitic Mt-DNA L0, L3x, L3a, L4, L5, M1 and U6 has been found in East African Bantu women like the Kikuyu and Tanzanian Bantus.
Cushitic Y-DNA E-M215* and T has also been found has been found in East African Bantu men like the Kikuyu and Tanzanian Bantus


If anything it's the other way round. Cushitic peoples went as far as Southern Tanzania. The Iraqw people are fine example of a surviving relic of South Cushitic people in Tanzania


No argument from me.


A common misconception. Not all migrations involve bloodshed. And many migrations did lead to intermixing between the migrants and natives.


Says who?

Tanzania has about 80 differing tribes. Like the rest of African Countries. You can't just say Tanzania Bantu Women. Not even 10% have been genetically mapped. Same with Kenya.

The history of the Kikuyu agrees. The Agikuyu assimilated whole two tribes. The Athi, who are believed to have been of origins similar to the Cushite, and Gumba - a hunter gatherer group(says their own authentic history). The Kikuyu have been genetically mapped. And I think only five more out of over 45 Kenya tribes. That is not a sample. EVERY African tribe is unique genetically as tribes were the autonomous nation's of the pre colonial Africa.

You ask says who? We have always known our history. We do not depend on foreigners opinions on who we are. All tribes here know their origins, their assimilated tribes and the stories behind all such events. Like I said, a very negligible African population is genetically mapped and using it as a sample is a mistake that will make genetic scientists look very stu.pid in the near future.

I doubt someone like Nelson Mandela could fit in Central and East African bantu populations.

In what way? You need to visit Nairobi, Daresalam and Kinsasha just to have a feel of how people look like.

That's because the Bantu populations of East Africa have absorbed them genetically.

The proof that Cushite have always been a small group is with the currently surviving Cushite tribes. The Somali are just about 25 million. And I believe that number includes the Oromo of Kenya and Ethiopia. They just don't increase as fast as Bantus. Mostly because of their nomadic lifestyle.

Nomadic behavior should also explain the presence of the Iraqw further south. And also consider the history of the East African plains, which was previously dominated by other tribes like the Masaai.

muafrika:
Tanzania has about 80 differing tribes. Like the rest of African Countries. You can't just say Tanzania Bantu Women. Not even 10% have been genetically mapped. Same with Kenya.

That's true. However geneticists have genetically mapped a few Tanzanian Bantu groups and results are still the same.
Here are 2 studies done on East Africa. Both studies have a genetic samples of different peoples and both of them include Tanzanian and Kenyan bantu peoples like the Kikuyu, Luhya, Taveta, Sukuma, Turu etc.
http://ethiohelix..ae/2013/05/another-extensive-thesis-on-east.html
http://ethiohelix..ae/2013/01/east-african-mtdna-variation-has.html

muafrika:
The history of the Kikuyu agrees. The Agikuyu assimilated whole two tribes. The Athi, who are believed to have been of origins similar to the Cushite, and Gumba - a hunter gatherer group(says their own authentic history). The Kikuyu have been genetically mapped. And I think only five more out of over 45 Kenya tribes. That is not a sample. EVERY African tribe is unique genetically as tribes were the autonomous nation's of the pre colonial Africa.

At the bolded - Kinda proving my point.

muafrika:
In what way? You need to visit Nairobi, Daresalam and Kinsasha just to have a feel of how people look like.

Please spare me the "All Bantu ethnic groups look a like" BS. Nelson Mandela had clear Khoisan genes flowing through him.

muafrika:
The proof that Cushite have always been a small group is with the currently surviving Cushite tribes. The Somali are just about 25 million. And I believe that number includes the Oromo of Kenya and Ethiopia. They just don't increase as fast as Bantus. Mostly because of their nomadic lifestyle.

Oromos and Somalis are different peoples.

muafrika:
Nomadic behavior should also explain the presence of the Iraqw further south. And also consider the history of the East African plains, which was previously dominated by other tribes like the Masaai.

How do you explain the Mt-DNA and Y-DNA haplogroups found mainly in Cushitic peoples being found amongst Tanzanian Bantus?

BlackKenichi:

That's true. However geneticists have genetically mapped a few Tanzanian Bantu groups and results are still the same.
Here are 2 studies done on East Africa. Both studies have a genetic samples of different peoples and both of them include Tanzanian and Kenyan bantu peoples like the Kikuyu, Luhya, Taveta, Sukuma, Turu etc.
http://ethiohelix..ae/2013/05/another-extensive-thesis-on-east.html
http://ethiohelix..ae/2013/01/east-african-mtdna-variation-has.html


At the bolded - Kinda proving my point.


Please spare me the "All Bantu ethnic groups look a like" BS. Nelson Mandela had clear Khoisan genes flowing through him.


Oromos and Somalis are different peoples.


How do you explain the Mt-DNA and Y-DNA haplogroups found mainly in Cushitic peoples being found amongst Tanzanian Bantus?

That just proved my point take this list for example;
Would you believe that these list comprises mostly of Nilotes and cushites? and Semites.

Nairobi cannot be a sample. It's a metropolitan area with different tribes. Only the bolded are bantu groups;

The Dinka Samples are from Krings etal. (1999)
The Sudan and Ethiopia Samples are from Soares
et al. (2011)
The Tigrai, Amhara, Gurage, Oromo and Yemeni1
Samples are from Kivisild et al. (2004)
The Beta Israel Samples are from Beharet al.
(2008)
The Ethiopian Jewish Samples are from Non et al.
(2011)
The Somali Samples are from Soares et al.
(2011) and Watson et al. (1997)
The Daasanach and Nyangatom Samples are from
Poloni et al. (2009)
The Turkana2 Samples are from Poloni et al.
(2009) and Watson et al. (1997)
The Nairobi Samples are from Brandstatter et al.
(2004)

The Kikuyu Samples are from Watson et al. (1997)
The Hutu Samples are from Castrì etal. (2009)

The Iraqw Samples are from Knight etal. (2003)

The Burunge and Turu Samples are from Tishkoff
et al. (2007)
The Datoga and Sukuma Samples are

from Tishkoff et al. (2007) and Knight etal.
(2003)
All the remaining samples: Dawro Konta, Ongota,
Hamer, Rendille, Elmolo, Luo, Maasai, Samburu and
Turkana are new and sampled along with this
study.

muafrika:


That just proved my point take this list for example;
Would you believe that these list comprises mostly of Nilotes and cushites? and Semites.

Nairobi cannot be a sample. It's a metropolitan area with different tribes. Only the bolded are bantu groups;

The Dinka Samples are from Krings etal. (1999)
The Sudan and Ethiopia Samples are from Soares
et al. (2011)
The Tigrai, Amhara, Gurage, Oromo and Yemeni1
Samples are from Kivisild et al. (2004)
The Beta Israel Samples are from Beharet al.
(2008)
The Ethiopian Jewish Samples are from Non et al.
(2011)
The Somali Samples are from Soares et al.
(2011) and Watson et al. (1997)
The Daasanach and Nyangatom Samples are from
Poloni et al. (2009)
The Turkana2 Samples are from Poloni et al.
(2009) and Watson et al. (1997)
The Nairobi Samples are from Brandstatter et al.
(2004)

The Kikuyu Samples are from Watson et al. (1997)
The Hutu Samples are from Castrì etal. (2009)

The Iraqw Samples are from Knight etal. (2003)

The Burunge and Turu Samples are from Tishkoff
et al. (2007)
The Datoga and Sukuma Samples are

from Tishkoff et al. (2007) and Knight etal.
(2003)
All the remaining samples: Dawro Konta, Ongota,
Hamer, Rendille, Elmolo, Luo, Maasai, Samburu and
Turkana are new and sampled along with this
study.

My point still stands. Both of those studies had Tanzanian and Kenyan bantu samples. Btw the Burunge and Datoga aren't Bantu.

BlackKenichi:


My point still stands. Both of those studies had Tanzanian and Kenyan bantu samples. Btw the Burunge and Datoga aren't Bantu.

I had suspicions about the two. The three syllable names and prefixes looked Bantu.

That fool will go to the ends of the earth to to dig up any connections to Bantus. Lmao.

Bantus have as much Cushitic DNA as Whites, Arabs and Asians as all humans are from Africa and have same origins.

If we are talking about modern humans, Cushitics are more related to the people they are near Arabs/berbers and have the same language family as.

The Somali language has no Bantu words, yet has arabic words. Many of Somali practices that are ancient can be found in Egypt.


STOP CLAIMING.

Ajuran:
That fool will go to the ends of the earth to to dig up any connections to Bantus. Lmao.

Bantus have as much Cushitic DNA as Whites, Arabs and Asians as all humans are from Africa and have same origins.

If we are talking about modern humans, Cushitics are more related to the people they are near Arabs/berbers and have the same language family as.

The Somali language has no Bantu words, yet has arabic words. Many of Somali practices that are ancient can be found in Egypt.


STOP CLAIMING.

What happened to your photos yesterday. I was just about to invite my fellow Bantus to discuss you peculiarly girly face when you caused the topic to be hidden.

Do you have something stuck in your throat?

muafrika:
What happened to your photos yesterday. I was just about to invite my fellow Bantus to discuss you peculiarly girly face when you caused the topic to be hidden.

Do you have something stuck in your throat?

I never posted my photo here. And i never hid any topics

Ajuran:
That fool will go to the ends of the earth to to dig up any connections to Bantus. Lmao.

Bantus have as much Cushitic DNA as Whites, Arabs and Asians as all humans are from Africa and have same origins.

If we are talking about modern humans, Cushitics are more related to the people they are near Arabs/berbers and have the same language family as.

The Somali language has no Bantu words, yet has arabic words. Many of Somali practices that are ancient can be found in Egypt.


STOP CLAIMING.

Yet I bring proof and evidence to back up my claim and you don't. Oh btw Cushitic languages are also related Chadic and Omotic languages as well. Kenyan and Tanzanian bantu peoples like the Kikuyu, Taita, Sukuma, Turu, Mijikenda/Swahili, Kamba, Chagga all have cushitic blood in varying degrees. Deal with it.

BlackKenichi:

Yet I bring proof and evidence to back up my claim and you don't. Oh btw Cushitic languages are also related Chadic and Omotic languages as well. Kenyan and Tanzanian bantu peoples like the Kikuyu, Taita, Sukuma, Turu, Mijikenda/Swahili, Kamba, Chagga all have cushitic blood in varying degrees. Deal with it.

Chadic and Omatic are not Cushitic. As you can see in the map, Ethiopians/Somalis dont all speak Cushitic even though we are related, Some Ethiopians and Eritreans speak Semetic, while groups next to them like the Afar speak Cushitic.