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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Family / Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! (52623 Views)
I Hereby Denounce Feminism With Everything In Me. / Feminism: The True Colour / Girl Destroys Feminism In Just 3 Minutes. (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by TV01(m): 10:54am On Jun 03, 2015 |
I may or may not touch on other points raised here, but I simply couldn't let this pass, especially since it went unchallenged and has been repeated so often some people may well take it as gospel. Bukatyne, your submission below is an example of the tortured exegesiss one needs to engage in to claim to be a Christian and a feminist. Although you may well claim adherence to the basics of feminism i.e. esentially "equal opportunites & access", as do I, by way of what's written in the bible, another central tenet of feminism, is it's antipathy for marriage, which it views as a vehicle for oppressing women. The bible is clear - through both the old and new testaments - that headship, i.e overall authority in marriage, lies with the husband. A self-purported christian feminist - Feminianist - will always struggle at this point, reject one or the other, or as you have done warp one in order to contain the other. But essentially end up as neither fish nor fowl. Or as Pickabeau1 likes to frame it "oil and water don't mix". bukatyne:This is simply not true, there has never been any contention over male authority/headship in marriage, until feminism brought it's views to bear. And your giving primacy to feminist ideology is what begets your "stitch" with scripture. bukatyne:Anyone who opines thus is mistaken, we are all equal in Christ, creationally and in our value to God - Genesis 1:27, Galations 3:28, 1st Corinthian 12:13 (amongst others). You introduced the term "superior". Just as my son - due to age - would be charged with greater responsibilty in the absence of both parents. Tasking him with greater responsibility and thus affording him the corresponding authority does not make him superior to his sister - likewise husband and wife. bukatyne:The apology should be extended to believers , this is just shoddy - in the interest of equality I have to apply the same level of rebuke I would to a man ! Ephesians 5:21 is talking in a general fellowship context; there are at least two other texts which spell out the dynamic in a Christian marriage. The first you simply could'nt have missed as not only does it come right after the verse you quoted, it actually contextualises it . Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, Colossians 3:18 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Titus 2:5 to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands 1 Peter 3:1 Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands 1 Peter 3:5 For in this manner, in former times, the holy women who trusted in God also adorned themselves, being submissive to their own husbands, bukatyne:First asserting that marital submission is mutual (essentially rendering it meaningless), by utilising a generalist text, ignoring numerous marital specific ones, and then making it sounds like the husbands call to love - as if the wife is nowhere called to love? - makes him a servant to his wife - as he "puts her first" - is essentially making her his head It's essentially a compound error (or a comedy of them ), as you first claim submission is mutual, you then equate submission to love and then "equalise" them as demands on both parties. It's a particualr pernicious error, as it effectively denies the God ordained creational differences and the nuance given to ensure we best flourish in our mutual "complimentarity". Understand and follow where your beliefs and thinking lead you. You are effectively denying the difference between the sexes. It's why feminism and the gay lobby are effectively twinned - both deny the inherent nature of males and females, which are asymetrical but perfectly aligned. bukatyne:Yes, you are indeed a feminsit as stated, and I will not even venture so far as to question the love in your marital home. But no, your position is not the christian one, and no matter how loving your home is, if ordered according to your exposition, it is simple not in accordance with scripture. bukatyne:Like I said earlier, feminsim is opposed to marriage, seeing it as oppressive. So whilst being married although questionable, is certainly possible for a feminist, the required dynamic of a feminist marriage is not possible for a Christian husband and wife. bukatyne:A fallacy, as from a Christian perspective at least, no one has stated that they are not; what are in view are headship and authority. bukatyne:And the questions begged with regard "actions" within marriage are; 1. Does a wife submit to her husbands overall authority/headship? 2. Does he have authority over her or is authority/headship somehow "equally shared"? TV 12 Likes 4 Shares |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by coogar: 11:00am On Jun 03, 2015 |
VictoriaBee: the interpretation varies. in my own clan, it means what i just told you. if God's power doesn't fall, it simply means the power is above all. |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by TV01(m): 11:37am On Jun 03, 2015 |
Stilly, Stilly, Stilly, a good effort, but not one that convinces me there is any merit in feminism. Firstly, you have hared totally down the wrong track with your notions of chivalry. As the definition you posted describes it is a code of behaviour derived from moral, societal and religious codes - all of which recognise the inhenret difference between male and female, hence affording them the courtesy chivalry demands. While chivalry is a European word, the notion of courtesy and protection towrds women is rooted in all men and cultures - even if it's form is different. Most ironically feminism drives out chivalrous practice in men by it's strident insitence on equality/sameness. Stillfire:And no one has said the roles make either superior have they. They are just different and clearly aligned to our complimetary natures. And pray tell how interdependence is feminist? Stillfire:Oh please! "subservient"? Which religion do you speak of, I can hold brief for Christianity and confidently say "it aint so Joe" Stillfire:Nope, not a hierarchy, no notions of superior or inferior, but order and harmony. You are seeing things here. Stillfire:It doesn't have to. These are secondary "feelgood" or beta traits in the male-female dynamic. Non of these in and of themselves will attract you to a man or make you consider him as your husband. These are after the deal has been done. And African men demonstrate chivalry in a way African women understand and respond to. Stillfire:I answered this in opening. TV 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by bukatyne(f): 11:41am On Jun 03, 2015 |
Darkrebel666: How you believe in equality of the sexes and still believe that men are more equal than women? 3 Likes |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by Joy1706(f): 12:13pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
Darkrebel666:I didn't debase my kind. I debased your kind. We all know how you guys think. When you see comments like....'baby, your so sexy, I love your boobs etc...' please tell me what else is in the minds of those guys apart from sex. My dear, women go out 6 to 6 and still come home to do those chores. How many males were taught to do chores? Extremely few. Besides,a man could go out 6 to 6 and do maybe just paper work as opposed to the woman who'll be home washing, cooking, cleaning etc. Which is more strenuous then? 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by bukatyne(f): 12:19pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
Darkrebel666: Now I know you are living in wonderland How many wives stay at home |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by Nobody: 12:28pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
Joy1706: would the men make such comments if the ladies didn't present themselves to the social media as wh0res or sex objects ? answer is no. you are addressed the way you are dressed and packaged. so if I see a lady with half of her b00bs exposed to the internet and millions of people, I should congratulate and respect her. of course not, I would only see her as a intimacy gadget and s£x t0y.. you can't blame me if I make a profane comment, and trust me a lot of women even relish those comments. you want to say you don't like the fact or feel good because about 100 men desire you and wanna hump you? don't bother answering cos everybody knows you women folks love the attention you get. I never said women don't go out to work and sit idle at home I only want to make it clear that the manly duties such as paying of rent and stuffs can't be compared to house chores.. house chores can never be on the scale as paying of rent, bills school fees foodstuffs etc how about I do the house chores and my wife does the above enumerated? 4 Likes |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by damiso(f): 12:28pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
FrancisTony: Yes naa abi you think that male driver who carries his madams bag and is summoned to come and load all the souvenirs into the car after her owambe runs is equal to the madam don't think so. He is probably sat in the car in the hot sun( woe betide him if he switch on the AC and waste her fuel ) while madam is chilling in her air conditioned hall Stereotypes /chauvinism are not necessarily discrimination. They are attitudes and like has been said by some already is kinda cultural. E.g. I think women should not contest for political office because they are weak and emotional. that is chauvinism and stereotypes. Discrimination is me intentionally not selling her a political nomination form because of her gender even though she meets the criteria or standards of all the other aspiring office holders. That is what is illegal. We cant control people's attitudes and perceptions but we can legislate against discrimination. I have lived in Nigeria and I can say that I was never discriminated against because of my gender. I can however say that I have encountered my own fair share of chauvinism and stereotyping. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by Nobody: 12:33pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
bukatyne: that's not what I meant. I just replied joy17 now. go read it |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by danbrowndmf(m): 12:42pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
Darkrebel666:some body will be showing her ass and butocks on social media and still want me to address her as a pastor...SHM...ts nt done anywhere. 1 Like |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by bukatyne(f): 12:52pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
Darkrebel666: I 100% agree you are addressed the way you are dressed Darkrebel666: You sure are a mind reader Not everyone loves the attention of lewd men. But again, I will say don't dress like one Darkrebel666: How many houses is financed by the husband alone? What is the work in paying bills? Transferring the money from your account to the care taker's? Is there a special type of work men do in their coy when want to pay bills? All these na wash. |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by bukatyne(f): 2:02pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
TV01: Ok TV01: Is there anywhere feminism is said to be antimarriage? TV01:. The husband is the head of the Home; Head here means source. That's why I do not support a woman to ask a guy out; That's why traditionally we bear our husband's surname (depends on agreement). I have never related headship to mean total authority... You cannot even total authority over your child past a certain stage. TV01: I believe you have not got on with the times... even on this thread, people have said women are inferior to their husbands/men. I did not start the phrase. TV01: TV01: Maybe it was a very bad idea responding to you. I said submission is putting your husband first and love is putting your wife first. If they both put themselves first, how is the husband a slave to the wife? Why did you pick a part of my post make a point? Is the husband not also called to respect his wife in 1 Pet? Can a man genuinely love his husband without respecting her? Can a woman genuinely submit to her husband without loving him? I used genuinely for submission because a lot of people mistake eye service for submission. Or should the wife put her husband first (because he is the head) and the man puts himself first too? Do you put your wife first? If yes, is she your head? @ Lucida: are men not called to love again? TV01: [b]Where did I say submission and love are same? What is even the difference? This is love expected from husbands: 1 Corinthians 13 New King James Version (NKJV) The Greatest Gift 13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, it profits me nothing. 4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13&version=NKJV Please what is submission? The practical act[/b] TV01: I see TV01: Can you quote a post of mine outside this thread (not out of context) that denies the difference between sexes? Infact, no two human is same so what is the hype about the difference of men and women? I went to a boarding house and lived with twins so I know that even extremely identical twins do not behave same way or even like the same things or do same subjects. So feminism = gay lobby? interesting. TV01: Fortunately for us, we are not gunning to go to TV's heaven TV01: Unfortunately, I do not see how saying men and women are equal is against marriage. While I will not deny that there are extremists who cry foul at male toilets and free the tips (a woman still beat her little son because he wanted to free his tips (I keep saying I have never seen a responsible man bearing his tips), I cannot be held accountable for them. How I choose to interpret it is dependent on my outlook to life and personality.[/quote] TV01: A fallacy, as from a Christian perspective at least, no one has stated that they are not; what are in view are headship and authority. And the questions begged with regard "actions" within marriage are; 1. Does a wife submit to her husbands overall authority/headship?: [b]What overall authority are you referring to? 2. Does he have authority over her or is authority/headship somehow "equally shared"?Same as above [b]I remember certain things you have said as regards your wife... (my apologies if I mixed one or two things up; I don't cram details of people's lives here) 1. First, when her club lost, you said you need some chores and cooking to cheer her up and see if she would give you some 2. On the thread about housewives or so, you said you wanted to move somewhere else but she will not bulge; you apparently went on holiday there and hoped she saw the light 3. You also said on the thread above you wished she would stop working however you know she wouldn't 4. You once told coco that submission is not blind obedience 5. You said you have never shouted on your wife before; that anytime you feel like rinsing, you come to NL 6. You said , you have total authority on your wife; when challenged, you said she makes about 90% of the decisions and you have never used the 'total authority' 7. You said you do chores at home regularly Honestly, if your wife told me all these, I would say send my warm regards to your husband, he is a loving one. On NL, Now if you cannot/could not force her cook/do chores or tell her to la liga; force her to resign; Force her to move; do not expect blind obedience to her, trust/allow her to make decisions, have never used your 'total authority' etc. How do you prove this total authority or headship? Or is this just a case of saying a phrase without weight?[/b] TV01: Now to summarize, You believe men and women are equal? 8 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by TV01(m): 3:15pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
Bukatyne, when did you become an epistleer ! bukatyne: Feminism is a range of movements and ideologies that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women.[This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women.The basic Wiki definition – “equal rights” in marriage demanded by feminism is contrary to male leadership outlined in the scriptures. And all your posts on this issue are clearly in accord with feminism. You always blanket anything that ascribes leadership in the marital home to males. Be it by making submission = love, or headship =source, or playing on mutual/reciprocal respect, you inherently deny it. That is feminism subsuming Christinaity But even beyond that, feminsist thought-leaders are largely against marriage and even hostile towards it; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_marriage#The_feminist_approach Bukatyne, no need for story, please answer the questions; 1. Is there a scriptural notion of men being the designated leader or having overall responsibility in the marital home? 2. Does a wife submit to her husbands headship? 2. Does he have authority over her or is authority/headship somehow "equally shared"? 3. Does submission = love? 4. Does head = source and have no implications for leadership or authority? 5. Even if spouses put one another first, love and respect each other, does this mean there is no question of leadership in the marital home? I love my wife, and quite often I give leave to her wishes/preferences/desires, I don’t expect blind obedience. I’d be rather sad/worried if she didn’t analyse my take on things and/or have positions/counter-analyses of her own. Although I get that she trusts me implicitly ! I have never raised my voice, hands or used foul language in her presence. I make her a nutribullet smoothie most mornings and often a tea at night , I have a chore allocation distinct to hers and also carry out many that overlap – like bathing TV02. Sometimes depending on how we are both placed, I may even perform some of hers. And my wife will confirm all of this, but the fact remains, that if there is an important issue on which we do not agree. I make the call. Everytime. Even as I work to make my wife and children happy, I do not lose sight of my authority and leadership role. For holidays for example, I’ll specify a few requirements and my wife will research. She returns say 3 locations which all fit the criteria, I’ll typically ask what she prefers, I’ll then probe her reasons why, outline any considerations or concerns I may have, we’ll discuss and perhaps agree. If not, I will almost certainly go with what she wants – as a holiday is simply not that important and I have outlined basal requirementsll For important issues, even minor ones sef, as we just like yakking , we thoroughly discuss, but if we are not in agreement and I don't find my wifes position compelling, I command and my wife heeds/submits/obeys. And like I've said previously, headship/leadership/authority is not in veiw with every interaction - or even very often - it's not master/slave or owner/employee. But when it is, I wield it ! Please answer the questions, and the initial charge about your exegetical denial of male leadership in the home. TV bukatyne: You believe men and women are equal? Absoutely, but they are not the same, different on practically every level and in so many ways. And they have some designated roles and specific duties within marriage. Leadership is one such - and it sits with the male 3 Likes |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by pickabeau1: 3:56pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
Christian feminists The most deluded of all Jesus says I and my Father are one Prepare for the Lords Prayers to become "Our Source" and all references to God the Father be removed https://womenandthechurch.org/news/news-round-up-let-god-be-a-she-the-national-conversation-about-a-god-without-gender/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/32958213/god-is-neither-she-nor-he-say-anglican-priests https://womenandthechurch.org/news/news-round-up-let-god-be-a-she-the-national-conversation-about-a-god-without-gender/ |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by TooNoisy(f): 4:02pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
Nigerians are about the easiest people to confuse. One wonders why the feminists movement isn't getting any attention in Asia and the Middle East, but seems to be talked about in Nigeria. But the truth is that feminism isn't making headway in Nigeria at all. We just have a bunch on wannabees on Nairaland who want to feel western but if you examine their lives there is nothing feminist about them. One of the leading feminists on Nairaland recently got married and traveled abroad to join her husband where she is not currently working. She has not worked for the past one year; all she does is clean, cook and come here to grumble about men on Nairaland. Lot's of such goons in the family section. Just go into the the family section fun room and you will hear their real stories. All they do is cook and clean but the come out and shout they are feminists. Jobless people in real life. How many of you feminists take turns to cook with your husband? How many of you feminists take turns to do dishes with your husband? How many of you feminists take turns to do heavy lifting with your husbands? A complete bunch of jokers. 8 Likes |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by pickabeau1: 4:05pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
If God were a woman - by women themselves an extract of comments made if God were a woman The bolded is telling
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Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by Nobody: 4:07pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
Bukatyne, you're on fire. I love Christian feminists just the way I love the most exonerated Blessed Virgin Mary. Atheist ones?? No, they believe in nothing 1 Like |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by bukatyne(f): 4:10pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
TV01: Well Well TV01: How does equal rights negate male leadership? Doesn't your wife have equal rights with you? Or does equal rights appear when it suits the discuss? I remembered it was one of the points you used to counter polygamy. TV01: Sorry, not my business what feminist thought-leaders think of marriage. Feminism has been defined and I agree with it and identify myself as someone who has such beliefs. Whatever anyone thinks is what they think. My church has an idea of what a home should look like; it is their business. That is why it is a thougt/idea. Even if it is a commandment, no one can force me to obey. TV01: 1. I do not know what you mean by overall responsibility; yes I agree husbands are the leaders of their homes 2. Yes a woman does 3. I do not know what you mean by authority here 4. Yes and no 5. See Answer 1. 6. No TV01: Do you make this call even if it is something you have no idea about? Even if you are making this call, how do you make it? Digging more merits for what you want to do? Looking at if it is critical to you or her or you just say, we are going my way because I am the head? TV01: You have even answered part of my question. You go her way because it is more important to her; could it be that you make the last call because it is important to you or something you know well about and not necessarily because you are the head or sole authority (which obviously you are not) TV01: If you do not find her position compelling... I like this your post; just like examination that has objective and theory parts; you keep dropping answers in one part of it. Now I ask; if your wife's position is compelling, will you say that 'I am the head', I don't care about your suggestion/points and we go my way? TV01: So when you are not welding this headship/leadership, what happens? And of course, it is welded in your dreams and maybe on the bed If your wife is like the people who are turning the head to where the neck wants, you would probably be doing her wish the few times her points don't 'compel' you And I 100% bet that when you are even 'welding' it, it is with a soft voice and cunnily. Like my husband will say, 'I know how to get you to do what I want sometimes' and be 100% certain it is not by barking or authoritatively... The authority is perhaps for people outside the home. TV01: I have and leadership in the home (Christian) is not like worldly leadership; it is by example and to serve. I learnt a number of excellent things etc. from my husband doing them to me. I see most reference to leaderships as a call for the husband to do has he likes (surely the things the wife cannot reciprocate). P.S:I did not get a mention, the bukatyne begins with a small letter. And one advise, stop painting yourself like a monster in a bid to show you are an 'authority welding husband'; you are not a picture for it. 2 Likes |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by Nobody: 4:13pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by bukatyne(f): 4:13pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
pickabeau1: Is God a He? Does He have male sex organs? 2 Likes |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by pickabeau1: 4:14pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
bukatyne: stop asking question with questions.. state your point If God is not a He, what is God then |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by bukatyne(f): 4:16pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
pickabeau1: I should stop asking questions with questions? What would I ask with? Answers? Does spirit have a gender? 2 Likes |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by Nobody: 4:17pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
bukatyne:God is genderless. Chauvinistic men made it seem like God is HE. It's just the way church is referred as SHE but in actual sense, it's not a woman. 2 Likes |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by crackhaus: 4:17pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
Lmao... |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by pickabeau1: 4:24pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
bukatyne: Whatever you say is the answer FrancisTony: If chauvinists made God a HE Accoding to your logic, Jesus is a chauvinist for referring to God as his Father.. Yes? 1 Like |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by bukatyne(f): 4:25pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
FrancisTony: That is what I was taught o! Male and Female was created in the image and likeness of God... Perhaps He has both and the Phallus is more prominent. The Church is the bride of Christ Church: Male and female Perhaps Jesus is also gay 3 Likes |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by bukatyne(f): 4:26pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
pickabeau1: |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by bukatyne(f): 4:27pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
FrancisTony: Thanks 1 Like |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by Nobody: 4:30pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
pickabeau1:Why was Jerusalem referred as a mother? Does that mean she's a full woman with breeast? NO Father represents head of authority, and Yahweh sent Yeshua, hence calling God "father". 3 Likes |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by pickabeau1: 4:37pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
FrancisTony: Very good..at least you are contributing However you are going off on a tangent It's not about sex organs or brêasts The issue here is which pronoun should Yahweh the father be referred to He She It Transgendered Fill in the gap |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by Nobody: 4:44pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
pickabeau1:He should be referred as, "HE" since he was portrayed as a father but it doesn't make him a man. White men introduced God as a man so that women will feel inferior. Introduced God as a white so that blacks will feel inferior. 1 Like |
Re: Feminism: A Joke In Nigeria—for Now! by pickabeau1: 4:48pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
FrancisTony: Gosh..... your logic is astounding Where is it said God is a man The Bible says God is not a man that he should lie You have a habit of making a point then railing off another set of points which have no bearing to the point.. choi... .. who spoke of white man now? 1. So if God is a He.. why is there a controversy of Him being made a she by the Watch group. see my posts above 1 Like |
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