Rilwayne001:



[size=15pt] THE BIBLE SAID NO. [/size]

1Ti 6:15-16 …………--God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

Exo 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

The question is: How true is this using the same bible?

Cc; allnaijablogger, malviguy, truthman2012, ifeann, true2god, jagoon, jcross, proffdada macelliot, bingbagbo, prophetudeme

NO one can see God.

FOLYKAZE:


Oga ade shattapp

MOSES saw your God face to face

Moses did not see God.it a figurative expression just to indicate the relationship between God and man, verse 11 say ;
"as a man speaketh unto his friend"

[size=14pt] Thank God they're indirectly accepting that the buyboo blasphemes, they just don't know whether to hold God responsible or man.

Chai... Xtians know how to give absurd excuses!

Good one Rilwayne. Jazak Allah Khairan [/size]

Empiree:
Exactly what I was expecting AT-TAQQIYA in action!.


To even think that God Almighty spoke these words is blasphemy. These are men's inputs; blaspheming against God. Nonsense!

These are just few of what Quran and hadith said that people of the Book corrupted their scriptures and you sit their telling me these are analogies? Joke!

What are you saying?

Was it God who spoke the words you are talking about?

Did any Jew or Christian claim the Bible contains only the words from the mouth of God? If a king or anybody said or did anything wrong and it was so recorded in the Bible, is that what you call corruption of it?

Is it not a lie that God wrote any book with His own hands and given to Moses and Jesus as the quran claims? Where are the Books today? Even the quran was written by Muhammad's scribes, not allahh.

The fact that the Bible records everything as it was, good or bad shows the truthfulness of the Holy Book.

lepasharon:
Daniel saw God too.

Muhammad said he saw allah too.

Rilwayne001:


…“Your name will no longer be Jacob. Your name will now be Israel, because you have wrestled WITH GOD and with people, and you have won.” Then Jacob asked him, “Please tell me your name.” But the man said, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed Jacob there. So Jacob named that place Peniel, saying, “I have seen God face to face, but my life was saved.”

The underlined part is not the primary aim of this thread if not the highlighted part, Do you agree that Jacob according to this verse saw God face-to-face?

first it was the meaning of peniel that is I have seen God face to face, but peniel have many significant meaning, Penuel, which signifies the face of God, or God hath looked upon me, or hath had respect to me. infacte there was a
city built here,called by the same name;
Judges 8:8;
From there he went up to PENIEL and
made the same request of them, but
they answered as the men of Sukkoth
had.

Jacob wrestled with an angel, but he thought it was God, the bible is clear, NO ONE CAN SEE GOD AND LIVE , as long as Jacob did not die, it was not God he wrestled with.

[quote author=truthman2012 post=34664121]

God is the ALMIGHTY who cannot be fully or entirely understood by man. In fact, what makes Him God is that He is beyond human comrehension.

God can appear to people in different forms. He can appear as an angel or a man. He can reveal Himself in a way that man can have the capacity to withstand. He also has a glorious form that is beyond man's ability to behold with the natural eyes.

In those occasions God revealed Himself to Moses and others, He decided to do so in a form that man's eyes could behold. But Moses requested specifically to see God in His full glory: ''And he (Moses) said, I beseech thee, shew me thy GLORY'' (Exodus 33:18). In this case, God had to develop a strategy for Moses to see a part of His GLORY.

Please note that earlier in the same book of Exodus, the bible records that Moses and some others saw God in a form man can see Him:

Exo 24:9-11 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up and SAW THE GOD OF ISRAEL . Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself. But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; THEY SAW GOD , and they ate and drank.

The fact that Moses requested to see God in His GLORY proves he did not see Him in His completeness the first time he saw Him.

Therefore, when Timothy and John said no one can see God as in the New Testament, they must have been talking about seeing His completeness as they were aware of the Old Testament events where some people saw Him in a form.

May God grant you muslim guys divine understanding.

[/quote

In addition to the bold, bible god can fight with man and the man defeat him, he can come out of under a woman as a child, he can be a woman(she bible). A simple question, are you sure this are not blasphemies

Rilwayne001:


Lol..

Exo 24:9-11 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up and SAW THE GOD OF ISRAEL . Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself. But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; THEY SAW GOD , and they ate and drank.

Perphaps the God of Israel is different from the one you talking about. Who is lying? you or the bible?

this is the problems you muslims have, you read were favour your argument but leave the chapter that answer your question.

Exodus 19:12-13
12 You shall set bounds for the people all
around, saying, ‘Take heed to yourselves
that you do not go up to the mountain or
touch its base. Whoever touches the
mountain shall surely be put to death. 13
Not a hand shall touch him, but he shall
surely be stoned or shot with an arrow;
whether man or beast, he shall not live.’
When the trumpet sounds long, they
shall come near the mountain.”

God told Moses to set the boundaries around the mountain so that no one should even touch its base without the punishment of death. However, God specifically invited these people to ascend the mountain in order to consecrate them for the service to which they had been appointed, and to seal the covenant which had been established between God and the nation of Israel.
Second, it is clear from the description
and from other passages of Scripture ( Ex. 33:19–20; Num. 12:8; John 1:18), that what these people saw was not the
essence of God, but rather a visual
representation of the glory of God. Even
when Moses asked to see God’s glory (Ex. 33:18–23), it was only a likeness of God which Moses saw (cf. Num. 12:8 where the Hebrew word temunah “form,” “likeness” is used), and not the very essence of God.

lepasharon:
Daniel saw God too.

did you know the meaning of vision? Daniel saw vison.

truthman2012:
I am surprised that you muslim guys could still open a thread trying to find fault with the bible. If same is said about islam you start spewing fire and brimestone that forces owners of nairaland to be quickly deleting any thread against islam.

Islam can only survive by threats and killings. That shows the deity behind the religion. Smh!!!

Please don't mention my username again because I have lost keen interest in the forum. I only came to see this thread by chance.

Weldon my good friend.

lepasharon:
Daniel saw God too.

. Daniel saw God too? But not in his glory.

truthman2012:


Muhammad said he saw allah too.

[size=14pt] Where

These are the words of the Quran, revealed to Prophet Muhammad himself (PBUH)...

Q6:103
"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things"


Q7:143
"And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, ‘My Lord, show me (Yourself) that I may look at You.’ (God) said, ‘You will not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me.’ But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, ‘Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers."

---

Even when the Prophet (PBUH) made a miraculous journey through the heavens in which he spoke to Allah, he was asked by a companion, Abu Dahrr, whether he also saw God, the Prophet's reply (PBUH) was...

"There was only light, how could I see Him?” (Saheeh Muslim)

You don't have to resort to lies, Mr truthman!
[/size]

truthman2012:


Thank you. May you get old as well.

AMEN

How do you know whether or not my moniker has been deactivated?

Well, you have coutless monikers, perphaps you have deactivated on of them.

I know it will gladen many of you if I leave.

Nope. not at all.

I will definitely miss your display of featherhead, especially when you recyce trashed thread, and you are met with an astounding refutations, when after then, you would open a thread with your basilico account; crying out loud that we pasted copy and paste long trash to your threads. I will definitely miss your basilico account

But please, don't deactivate your account.

Am not leaving completely but will not be active as usual since you muslims are not ready for the truth.

You can go on exile as usual, this would not be your first time and definitely not the last, but trust me, you will always meet me here whenever you are back…

Bon voyage

malvisguy212:
Moses did not see God.it a figurative expression just to indicate the relationship between God and man, verse 11 say ;
"as a man speaketh unto his friend"

Stop distorting english my friend. The verse is simple and very easy to undetstand. Only fabricators and twister then to deploy another meaning to what thay verse said.

The verse is a typicak figure of speech called similes. With the use of 'as'., there is a direct comparison between Moses-God and friends. This further buttress that they indeed talked face to face like friends do.

That aside,
Exodus 24:9-11

9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.

Moses and lot others saw God. What ya say about this?

truthman2012:


What are you saying?

Was it God who spoke the words you are talking about?

Did any Jew or Christian claim the Bible contains only the words from the mouth of God? If a king or anybody said or did anything wrong and it was so recorded in the Bible, is that what you call corruption of it?

Is it not a lie that God wrote any book with His own hands and given to Moses and Jesus as the quran claims? Where are the Books today? Even the quran was written by Muhammad's scribes, not allahh.

The fact that the Bible records everything as it was, good or bad shows the truthfulness of the Holy Book.

You have confirmed Quran's allegations to be true. You are like a christian guy I met before who said bible is word of God, word of Satan, word of man, word of Angel

FOLYKAZE:


Stop distorting english my friend. The verse is simple and very easy to undetstand. Only fabricators and twister then to deploy another meaning to what thay verse said.

The verse is a typicak figure of speech called similes. With the use of 'as'., there is a direct comparison between Moses-God and friends. This further buttress that they indeed talked face to face like friends do.

That aside,
Exodus 24:9-11

9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.

Moses and lot others saw God. What ya say about this?

Exodus 24:9-11
9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and
Abihu, and the seventy elders of
Israel went up 10 and saw the God of
Israel. Under his feet was something
like a pavement made of lapis lazuli,
as bright blue as the sky. 11 But God
did not raise his hand against these
leaders of the Israelites; they saw
God, and they ate and drank.

Here we are told Moses and the elder see God face to face.But later, Moses was not allowed to see God's face.

Exodus 33:18-23
18 Then Moses said, “Now show me
your GLORY.”
19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all
my goodness to pass in front of you,
and I will proclaim my name, the
Lord, in your presence. I will have
mercy on whom I will have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom
I will have compassion. 20 But,” he
said, “you CANNOT SEE MY FACE , for no
one may see me and live.”
21 Then the Lord said, “There is a
place near me where you may stand
on a rock. 22 When my glory passes
by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock
and cover you with my hand until I
have passed by. 23 Then I will
remove my hand and you will see my
back; but my face must not be seen.”

Moses request to see God GLORY, but God answer was you CANNOT see my face,it is clear, what Moses and the elder saw first was God glory and Moses request to see it again but God say NO.

Does it make sense to you that after Moses see God face but later he still ask to see the glory of God but God say "you cannot see my face? The ONLY explanation to this is that they(Moses and the elder) did not see God face that is why Moses want to see it AGAIN , just to look the face, but God know the thought of Moses,He know, Moses want to see His face, that why he say no "NO MAN CAN SEE MY FACE AND LIVE" (you ask to see my Glory and my reply was "no" you cannot see my FACE, did Moses ask to see the face in the first place?no, but God can read his mind)

malvisguy212:
Exodus 24:9-11
9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and
Abihu, and the seventy elders of
Israel went up 10 and saw the God of
Israel. Under his feet was something
like a pavement made of lapis lazuli,
as bright blue as the sky. 11 But God
did not raise his hand against these
leaders of the Israelites; they saw
God, and they ate and drank.

Here we are told Moses and the elder see God face to face.But later, Moses was not allowed to see God's face.

Exodus 33:18-23
18 Then Moses said, “Now show me
your GLORY.”
19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all
my goodness to pass in front of you,
and I will proclaim my name, the
Lord, in your presence. I will have
mercy on whom I will have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom
I will have compassion. 20 But,” he
said, “you CANNOT SEE MY FACE , for no
one may see me and live.”
21 Then the Lord said, “There is a
place near me where you may stand
on a rock. 22 When my glory passes
by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock
and cover you with my hand until I
have passed by. 23 Then I will
remove my hand and you will see my
back; but my face must not be seen.”

Moses request to see God GLORY, but God answer was you CANNOT see my face,it is clear, what Moses and the elder saw first was God glory and Moses request to see it again but God say NO.

Does it make sense to you that after Moses see God face but later he still ask to see the glory of God but God say "you cannot see my face? The ONLY explanation to this is that they(Moses and the elder) did not see God face that is why Moses want to see it AGAIN , just to look the face, but God know the thought of Moses,He know, Moses want to see His face, that why he say no "NO MAN CAN SEE MY FACE AND LIVE" (you ask to see my Glory and my reply was "no" you cannot see my FACE, did Moses ask to see the face in the first place?no, but God can read his mind)

The bible is very clear unless you want to prove it is inpired by a confusionist.

Starting with, the bible stated that lot of people including Moses saw God. Not only that, Moses speak with him face to face just like friends talk to each other.

Exodus 33:11 express the incident with a direct comparison with friend relationship. Friends who talk together face to face see themselves. They dont hide in veil. This is the same thing that plays out between God and Moses.

On the issue of contradicting proclaimation. That is the issue of you, inspirer of the scripture and the character in in. This buttress the point that one of you is lying.

Exodus 33:11 is clear like the morning sun, Moses saw God face to face.

FOLYKAZE:


The bible is very clear unless you want to prove it is inpired by a confusionist.

Starting with, the bible stated that lot of people including Moses saw God. Not only that, Moses speak with him face to face just like friends talk to each other.

Exodus 33:11 express the incident with a direct comparison with friend relationship. Friends who talk together face to face see themselves. They dont hide in veil. This is the same thing that plays out between God and Moses.

On the issue of contradicting proclaimation. That is the issue of you, inspirer of the scripture and the character in in. This buttress the point that one of you is lying.

Exodus 33:11 is clear like the morning sun, Moses saw God face to face.

Moses and other's claimed they saw God BUT God on the other hand say NO man can see him and live, it is clear, whay they saw was not God that is why Moses request to only see His glory but God say NO, you cannot see my FACE. If Moses see God face, he would not ask to see it again.

malvisguy212:
Moses and other's claimed they saw God BUT God on the other hand say NO man can see him and live, it is clear, whay they saw was not God that is why Moses request to only see His glory but God say NO, you cannot see my FACE. If Moses see God face, he would not ask to see it again.

Bla bla bla

If God provides for you a bread today, wont you request for another one tomorrow?

That aside, Moses is a liar and the inspirer of the bible is a very deceitful being if we are going to agree with your position.

The fact remains that Moses saw God on the account on what is read from the bible.

FOLYKAZE:


Bla bla bla

If God provides for you a bread today, wont you request for another one tomorrow?

That aside, Moses is a liar and the inspirer of the bible is a very deceitful being if we are going to agree with your position.

The fact remains that Moses saw God on the account on what is read from the bible.

God did not inspired Moses to see his face, he only inspired him to pass the message to the isrealite.

Moses say he saw the face of God does not mean he is telling lie,I will say he was confused of the view.

malvisguy212:
God did not inspired Moses to see his face, he only inspired him to pass the message to the isrealite.

Moses say he saw the face of God does not mean he is telling lie,I will say he was confused of the view.

You are wrong sire.

Moses actually saw your God face to face. It is God that is confused, lied and had his words pass away without fulfilling.

God indeed said anyone that sees him will surely die. Moses saw him and he was preserved. The same God could have said samething to Isaac in his days. He could have told Jacob about how invisible he is and how someone that sees him would die. Jacob just like Moses saw God face to face.

Genesis 32:30
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for, said he, I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.


The verse above says alot of things.

1. God proclaimed that people that sees him would die.

2. Jacob saw him face to face. Note the word 'saw' pls. Moses spoke with him face to face as a friend. This justify that their conversation was like that of friends in the bar taking bear. The event is more than meeting, it is 'ere gbadi gbadi' of friends. Job and many lot saw Him.

3. God words pass without fulfilling. These people saw him and live after.

4. God is the liar and confused.

5. Mortal men could pull stunt on him. Place was named after the record breaking incident by Jacob.


All together, Jacob and Moses saw God face to face

malvisguy212:
Moses and other's claimed they saw God BUT God on the other hand say NO man can see him and live, it is clear, whay they saw was not God that is why Moses request to only see His glory but God say NO, you cannot see my FACE. If Moses see God face, he would not ask to see it again.

You dug another hole for yourself. Now read this.

Genesis 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”

FOLYKAZE:


You are wrong sire.

Moses actually saw your God face to face. It is God that is confused, lied and had his words pass away without fulfilling.

God indeed said anyone that sees him will surely die. Moses saw him and he was preserved. The same God could have said samething to Isaac in his days. He could have told Jacob about how invisible he is and how someone that sees him would die. Jacob just like Moses saw God face to face.

Genesis 32:30
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for, said he, I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.


The verse above says alot of things.

1. God proclaimed that people that sees him would die.

2. Jacob saw him face to face. Note the word 'saw' pls. Moses spoke with him face to face as a friend. This justify that their conversation was like that of friends in the bar taking bear. The event is more than meeting, it is 'ere gbadi gbadi' of friends. Job and many lot saw Him.

3. God words pass without fulfilling. These people saw him and live after.

4. God is the liar and confused.

5. Mortal men could pull stunt on him. Place was named after the record breaking incident by Jacob.


All together, Jacob and Moses saw God face to face

. I dey laugh ke! Ke! ke! in arabic at the level of ur ignorance. What part don't you undestand. No man either Moses, jacob or daniel ever saw God face to face in his glory(original form, exactly the way he looks). Moses spoke face to face with a pillar of cloud that has the presence of God in it, that's why it was recorded that he spoke face to face with God. NO BODY EVER SAW GOD IN HIS EXACT FORM AND LIVED. Everybody recorded in the bible did not see God in his glory, they only saw God's manifestations in different form, and that's why they did not die.

The name for Jesus in the Qur'an is given as "Issa". Yet this is incorrect. Issa is the Arabic's equivalent of Esau, the name for the twin brother of Jacob. The correct Arabic name for Jesus would be Yesuwa, similar to the Hebrew Yeshuwa, yet the supposedly "all-knowing" Qur'an has no mention of it.
I3v: Mountains
Suras 16 :15 ; 21 :31 ; 31 :10 ; 78 :6-7 ; 88 :19 tell us that God placed (threw down) mountains on the earth like tent pegs to keep the earth from shaking - after the earth was formed. For pre- scientific man this would sound logical, since mountains are large and therefore, their weight would have seemingly, a stabilizing effect on the earth. Yet we now know this logic to be quite inaccurate. Mountains were not formed and placed on the earth to render the earth's crust stable. In fact, the very existence of mountains is evidence of instability in the earth's crust, as they are found and pushed up by the colliding of tectonic plates (i.e. the migration of Arabia toward Iran has resulted in the Zagros range, France pushing against Italy produced the Alps, and the Indian plate nudging Tibet has given us the Himalayas):
[16.15] And He has cast great mountains in the earth lest it might be convulsed with you, and rivers and roads that you may go aright,
[Mountains were not cast in the earth in order to keep it from convulsing, they were formed by the earth's convulsions themselves!!! This verse is not correct.]
[21.31] And We have made great mountains in the earth lest it might be convulsed with them, and We have made in it wide ways that they may follow a right direction.
[Again, the mountains were not created to keep the earth from convulsing, they were created as a result of the earth's convulstions.]
[31.10] He created the heavens without pillars as you see them, and put mountains upon the earth lest it might convulse with you, and He spread in it animals of every kind; and We sent down water from the cloud, then caused to grow therein (vegetation) of every noble kind.
[Again, same point. The origin of mountains is not as it says here. ]
[78.6] Have We not made the earth an even expanse?
[78.7 ] And the mountains as projections (thereon)? [88.19] And the mountains, how they are firmly fixed,
[The earth and mountains are not separate entitities they are part of a system of geology]
I3vi: Alexander the Great
In sura 18 : 83-100 we find the story of Dhu al Qarnayn, who is known as the Greek conqueror, Alexander the Great. According to this sura, his power was given to him by Allah (aya 84), which some Muslims contend is an assertion that he had the same prominence as a prophet. But of even more importance to our discussion is the contention, according to this sura, that he was credited with building an enormous wall of iron and brass between two mountains, which was tall enough and wide enough to keep an entire army out (aya 96).
It is simple to test these claims because Alexander lived in the full light of history. Arrian, Quintus Curtius and other historians of repute have written the history of Alexander's exploits. From their writings we know that Aristotle was his tutor. Yet, these historians equivocally make him out as a heathen general whose debauchery and drunkenness contributed to his untimely death at the early age of 33. They show that he was an idolater, and actually claimed to be the son of the Egyptian god Amun. How, therefore, could he be considered to have the same prominence as a prophet, or even, as aya 84 clearly asserts, that Allah was the agent for his power?
Yet, what is even more troubling, there is no historical evidence anywhere that he built a wall of iron and brass between two mountains, a feat which, indeed, would have proven him to be one of the greatest builders or engineers in the history of mankind.
When we find the Qur'an so inaccurate in regard to Alexander, whose history is well known, we hesitate to accept as valuable or even as reliable the statements of the Qur'an about other matters of past history.
I3vii: Creation
Sura 86 :5-7 tells us that man is created from a gushing fluid that issues from between the loins and the ribs. Therefore, in this sura we find that the Fluid which creates a child originates from the back or kidney of the male and not the testicles.
I3viii: Pharaoh's Cross
In sura 7 :124 we find Pharoah admonishing his sorcerers because they believe in the superiority of Moses's power over theirs. Pharoah threatens them with cutting off their hands and feet on opposite sides, and then says they will all die on the cross. But their were no crosses in those days. Crucifixion was first practised by the Phoenicians and the Carthaginians and then borrowed extensively by the Romans close to the time of Christ, 1700 years after Pharaoh!
I3ix: Other Scientific problems
a. Sura 16 :66 mentions that cow's milk comes from between the excrement and the blood of the cow's abdomen. What does this mean?
b. In sura 16 :69 we are told that honey, which gives healing, comes out of the bees abdomen. Again, what does it mean that honey comes out of a bees abdomen?
c. sura 6 :38 says that all animals and flying beings form communities, like humans. I would like to ask whether this includes spiders, where in some species the female eats the male after mating has taken place. Is that a community like ours?
d. sura 25 :45-46 maintains that it is the sun which moves to create shadows. Yet, I have always been taught that it was the rotation of the earth which caused shadows to move, while the sun remained quite still (i.e. thus the importance of sundials in earlier days).
e. sura 17 :1 says Muhammad went to the "farthest Mosque" during his journey by night (the Mi'raj), which Muslims explain was the Dome of the Rock mosque, in Jerusalem. But there was no mosque in Jerusalem during the life of Muhammad, and the Dome of the Rock was not built until 690 C.E., by the Amir 'Abd al Malik, a full 58 years after Muhammad's death! There was not even a temple in existence at that time. The temple of Jerusalem had been destroyed by Titus 570 years before this vision. So what was this mosque Muhammad supposedly saw?
I4: Absurdities
There are other errors which are statements or stories which simply make no sense at all, and put into question the integrity of the writer or writers of the Qur'an.
I4i: Man's Greatness
Sura 4 :59 states,"Greater surely than the creation of man is the creation of the heavens and the earth; but most men know it not." This implies that greatness is only measured by size; that the mere vastness of the physical universe make it greater than man, an argument which would make a football of immensely greater value than the largest diamond. Our scripture tells us that Man's greatness lies not in his size, but in his relationship with God, that he is made in God's image, a claim which no other animate or inanimate object can make.
I4ii: Seven Earths
Sura 65 :12 reads, "It is God who hath created seven heavens and as many earths." We would love to know where the other six earths are. If these refer to the planets in our solar system, then they are short by two (and now possibly three).
I4iii: Jinns & Shooting stars:
Meteors, and even stars are said to be missiles fired at eavesdropping Satans and jinn who seek to listen to the reading of the Qur'an in heaven, and then pass on what they hear to men in suras 37 :6-10 ; 55 :33-35 ; 67 :5 ; & 72 :6-9.
How are we to understand these suras? Can we believe indeed that Allah throws meteors, which are made up of carbon dioxide or iron- nickel, at non- material devils who steal a hearing at the heavenly council? And how do we explain the fact that many of earths meteors come in showers which consequently travel in parallel paths. Are we to thus understand that these parallel paths imply that the devils are all lined up in rows at the same moment?
I4iv: Solomon's power over nature:
a. Birds and ants
King Solomon was taught the speech of birds (sura 27 :16 ) and the speech of ants (sura 27 :18-19 ). In his battles, he used birds extensively to drop clay bricks on Abrah's army (sura 105 :3-4 ), and marched them in military parades (sura 27 :17 ). He also used them to bring him messages of powerful queens (sura 27 :20-27).
Note: According to the historical record, Abrah's army was not defeated by bricks dropped on their head. Rather, they withdrew their attack on Mecca after smallpox broke out among the troops (Guillame, Islam, pgs.21ff).
b. Jinn
The Jinn were forced to work for Solomon, making him whatever he pleased, such as palaces, statues, large dishes, and brass fountains (sura 34 :11-13 ). A malignant jinn was even commissioned to bring the Queen of Sheba's throne in the twinkling of an eye (sura 27 :38-44).
c. Wind
The wind was subject to Solomon, travelling a month's journey both in the morning and in the evening (though the wisdom of its timing is somehow lost in translation) (sura 3 :11 ; 21 :81).
d. Ants talk
The ants, upon seeing Solomon and his army arriving in their valley (and by implication recognizing who he was), talk among themselves to flee underground so as not to be crushed (sura 27 :18).
I4 v: Youth and dog sleep 309 years
Sura 18 :9-25 tells the story of some youths (the exact number is debated) and a dog who sleep for 309 years with their eyes open and their ears closed (Note Yusuf Ali's attempts to delineate the exact time period of this story in footnote no.2365, and then concludes that it is merely a parable).
The object of this story is to show Allah's power to keep those who trust in him, including the dog, without food or water for as long as he likes.
I4vi: People become apes
In suras 2 :65-66 and 7 : 163- 167 , Allah turns certain fishing people who break the Jewish sabbath into apes for their disobedience. Had Darwin read the Qur'an, his theory on evolution may have parallelled "Planet of the Apes" rather then the other way around.

Medicis:
The name for Jesus in the Qur'an is given as "Issa". Yet this is incorrect. Issa is the Arabic's equivalent of Esau, the name for the twin brother of Jacob. The correct Arabic name for Jesus would be Yesuwa, similar to the Hebrew Yeshuwa, yet the supposedly "all-knowing" Qur'an has no mention of it.
I3v: Mountains
Suras 16 :15 ; 21 :31 ; 31 :10 ; 78 :6-7 ; 88 :19 tell us that God placed (threw down) mountains on the earth like tent pegs to keep the earth from shaking - after the earth was formed. For pre- scientific man this would sound logical, since mountains are large and therefore, their weight would have seemingly, a stabilizing effect on the earth. Yet we now know this logic to be quite inaccurate. Mountains were not formed and placed on the earth to render the earth's crust stable. In fact, the very existence of mountains is evidence of instability in the earth's crust, as they are found and pushed up by the colliding of tectonic plates (i.e. the migration of Arabia toward Iran has resulted in the Zagros range, France pushing against Italy produced the Alps, and the Indian plate nudging Tibet has given us the Himalayas):
[16.15] And He has cast great mountains in the earth lest it might be convulsed with you, and rivers and roads that you may go aright,
[Mountains were not cast in the earth in order to keep it from convulsing, they were formed by the earth's convulsions themselves!!! This verse is not correct.]
[21.31] And We have made great mountains in the earth lest it might be convulsed with them, and We have made in it wide ways that they may follow a right direction.
[Again, the mountains were not created to keep the earth from convulsing, they were created as a result of the earth's convulstions.]
[31.10] He created the heavens without pillars as you see them, and put mountains upon the earth lest it might convulse with you, and He spread in it animals of every kind; and We sent down water from the cloud, then caused to grow therein (vegetation) of every noble kind.
[Again, same point. The origin of mountains is not as it says here. ]
[78.6] Have We not made the earth an even expanse?
[78.7 ] And the mountains as projections (thereon)? [88.19] And the mountains, how they are firmly fixed,
[The earth and mountains are not separate entitities they are part of a system of geology]
I3vi: Alexander the Great
In sura 18 : 83-100 we find the story of Dhu al Qarnayn, who is known as the Greek conqueror, Alexander the Great. According to this sura, his power was given to him by Allah (aya 84), which some Muslims contend is an assertion that he had the same prominence as a prophet. But of even more importance to our discussion is the contention, according to this sura, that he was credited with building an enormous wall of iron and brass between two mountains, which was tall enough and wide enough to keep an entire army out (aya 96).
It is simple to test these claims because Alexander lived in the full light of history. Arrian, Quintus Curtius and other historians of repute have written the history of Alexander's exploits. From their writings we know that Aristotle was his tutor. Yet, these historians equivocally make him out as a heathen general whose debauchery and drunkenness contributed to his untimely death at the early age of 33. They show that he was an idolater, and actually claimed to be the son of the Egyptian god Amun. How, therefore, could he be considered to have the same prominence as a prophet, or even, as aya 84 clearly asserts, that Allah was the agent for his power?
Yet, what is even more troubling, there is no historical evidence anywhere that he built a wall of iron and brass between two mountains, a feat which, indeed, would have proven him to be one of the greatest builders or engineers in the history of mankind.
When we find the Qur'an so inaccurate in regard to Alexander, whose history is well known, we hesitate to accept as valuable or even as reliable the statements of the Qur'an about other matters of past history.
I3vii: Creation
Sura 86 :5-7 tells us that man is created from a gushing fluid that issues from between the loins and the ribs. Therefore, in this sura we find that the Fluid which creates a child originates from the back or kidney of the male and not the testicles.
I3viii: Pharaoh's Cross
In sura 7 :124 we find Pharoah admonishing his sorcerers because they believe in the superiority of Moses's power over theirs. Pharoah threatens them with cutting off their hands and feet on opposite sides, and then says they will all die on the cross. But their were no crosses in those days. Crucifixion was first practised by the Phoenicians and the Carthaginians and then borrowed extensively by the Romans close to the time of Christ, 1700 years after Pharaoh!
I3ix: Other Scientific problems
a. Sura 16 :66 mentions that cow's milk comes from between the excrement and the blood of the cow's abdomen. What does this mean?
b. In sura 16 :69 we are told that honey, which gives healing, comes out of the bees abdomen. Again, what does it mean that honey comes out of a bees abdomen?
c. sura 6 :38 says that all animals and flying beings form communities, like humans. I would like to ask whether this includes spiders, where in some species the female eats the male after mating has taken place. Is that a community like ours?
d. sura 25 :45-46 maintains that it is the sun which moves to create shadows. Yet, I have always been taught that it was the rotation of the earth which caused shadows to move, while the sun remained quite still (i.e. thus the importance of sundials in earlier days).
e. sura 17 :1 says Muhammad went to the "farthest Mosque" during his journey by night (the Mi'raj), which Muslims explain was the Dome of the Rock mosque, in Jerusalem. But there was no mosque in Jerusalem during the life of Muhammad, and the Dome of the Rock was not built until 690 C.E., by the Amir 'Abd al Malik, a full 58 years after Muhammad's death! There was not even a temple in existence at that time. The temple of Jerusalem had been destroyed by Titus 570 years before this vision. So what was this mosque Muhammad supposedly saw?
I4: Absurdities
There are other errors which are statements or stories which simply make no sense at all, and put into question the integrity of the writer or writers of the Qur'an.
I4i: Man's Greatness
Sura 4 :59 states,"Greater surely than the creation of man is the creation of the heavens and the earth; but most men know it not." This implies that greatness is only measured by size; that the mere vastness of the physical universe make it greater than man, an argument which would make a football of immensely greater value than the largest diamond. Our scripture tells us that Man's greatness lies not in his size, but in his relationship with God, that he is made in God's image, a claim which no other animate or inanimate object can make.
I4ii: Seven Earths
Sura 65 :12 reads, "It is God who hath created seven heavens and as many earths." We would love to know where the other six earths are. If these refer to the planets in our solar system, then they are short by two (and now possibly three).
I4iii: Jinns & Shooting stars:
Meteors, and even stars are said to be missiles fired at eavesdropping Satans and jinn who seek to listen to the reading of the Qur'an in heaven, and then pass on what they hear to men in suras 37 :6-10 ; 55 :33-35 ; 67 :5 ; & 72 :6-9.
How are we to understand these suras? Can we believe indeed that Allah throws meteors, which are made up of carbon dioxide or iron- nickel, at non- material devils who steal a hearing at the heavenly council? And how do we explain the fact that many of earths meteors come in showers which consequently travel in parallel paths. Are we to thus understand that these parallel paths imply that the devils are all lined up in rows at the same moment?
I4iv: Solomon's power over nature:
a. Birds and ants
King Solomon was taught the speech of birds (sura 27 :16 ) and the speech of ants (sura 27 :18-19 ). In his battles, he used birds extensively to drop clay bricks on Abrah's army (sura 105 :3-4 ), and marched them in military parades (sura 27 :17 ). He also used them to bring him messages of powerful queens (sura 27 :20-27).
Note: According to the historical record, Abrah's army was not defeated by bricks dropped on their head. Rather, they withdrew their attack on Mecca after smallpox broke out among the troops (Guillame, Islam, pgs.21ff).
b. Jinn
The Jinn were forced to work for Solomon, making him whatever he pleased, such as palaces, statues, large dishes, and brass fountains (sura 34 :11-13 ). A malignant jinn was even commissioned to bring the Queen of Sheba's throne in the twinkling of an eye (sura 27 :38-44).
c. Wind
The wind was subject to Solomon, travelling a month's journey both in the morning and in the evening (though the wisdom of its timing is somehow lost in translation) (sura 3 :11 ; 21 :81).
d. Ants talk
The ants, upon seeing Solomon and his army arriving in their valley (and by implication recognizing who he was), talk among themselves to flee underground so as not to be crushed (sura 27 :18).
I4 v: Youth and dog sleep 309 years
Sura 18 :9-25 tells the story of some youths (the exact number is debated) and a dog who sleep for 309 years with their eyes open and their ears closed (Note Yusuf Ali's attempts to delineate the exact time period of this story in footnote no.2365, and then concludes that it is merely a parable).
The object of this story is to show Allah's power to keep those who trust in him, including the dog, without food or water for as long as he likes.
I4vi: People become apes
In suras 2 :65-66 and 7 : 163- 167 , Allah turns certain fishing people who break the Jewish sabbath into apes for their disobedience. Had Darwin read the Qur'an, his theory on evolution may have parallelled "Planet of the Apes" rather then the other way around.

Trash!!! Stop diverting from the issue, I don't know why you Christians like doing taqqiya! . From the sh't you posted up there, can you show me what's blasphemous there?!

Medicis:
. I dey laugh ke! Ke! ke! in arabic at the level of ur ignorance. What part don't you undestand. No man either Moses, jacob or daniel ever saw God face to face in his glory(original form, exactly the way he looks). Moses spoke face to face with a pillar of cloud that has the presence of God in it, that's why it was recorded that he spoke face to face with God. NO BODY EVER SAW GOD IN HIS EXACT FORM AND LIVED. Everybody recorded in the bible did not see God in his glory, they only saw God's manifestations in different form, and that's why they did not die.

Wrong again sire.

For once I do not know that God has another form in his glory. I think Jacob was fighting God in his divinity and not glory. I dont even know how silly it is for one to think pillar of cloud hav leg, hand and can be fight with. Pillar of Cloud was punched by Jacob.

Who cares about seeing God in his glory or in his manifestation? The bible is very clear when God appears in form of cloud or fire. It indicate it without bringing confusion to it.

Let me highlight my point to you.

1. God proclaim those that see his face would die.

2. Jacob claimed he saw his face and he did live after.

3. Jacob is aware of God manifestation and the effect of seeing God face.

4. Jacob name the place he saw God peniel because he live after seeing God face. This is a record breaking incidence.

5. If it was mere seeing of manifestaion, lot of people have seen it so there is nothing special in it.


The whole Israel saw the pillar of cloud. Elijah and other people which are not Israel saw fire manifestation. The bible cited what they saw and it further buttress that Moses saw God face to face and speak like friends. Jacob saw him, fourth with him and live after. He didnt fight with cloud.

Medicis:
. I dey laugh ke! Ke! ke! in arabic at the level of ur ignorance. What part don't you undestand. No man either Moses, jacob or daniel ever saw God face to face in his glory(original form, exactly the way he looks). Moses spoke face to face with a pillar of cloud that has the presence of God in it, that's why it was recorded that he spoke face to face with God. NO BODY EVER SAW GOD IN HIS EXACT FORM AND LIVED. Everybody recorded in the bible did not see God in his glory, they only saw God's manifestations in different form, and that's why they did not die.

And you kept lying to yourself when verse is so glaring. Careful reading of the context shows that it was the people that saw the pillar of clouds while Moses entered into the tent and saw the God of Israel face to face. Now, pay attention to this.



Exo 33:8 And whenever Moses went out to the tent, all the people rose and stood at the entrances to their tents, watching Moses until he ENTERED the tent . Exo 33:9 As Moses went INTO the tent, the pillar of cloud would come down and stay at the ENTRANCE, while the LORD spoke with Moses. Exo 33:10 Whenever the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the entrance to the tent, they all stood and worshiped, each at the entrance to his tent.

We are told that Moses had already entered the tent to speak with the Lord, while the cloud stand as barrier to prevent the people from seeing what was going on inside.

Please stop lying, we are not fools.

malvisguy212:
Weldon my good friend.

Hi bro, God bless you.

9jaforlife:


[size=14pt] Where

These are the words of the Quran, revealed to Prophet Muhammad himself (PBUH)...

Q6:103
"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things"


Q7:143
"And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, ‘My Lord, show me (Yourself) that I may look at You.’ (God) said, ‘You will not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me.’ But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, ‘Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers."

---

Even when the Prophet (PBUH) made a miraculous journey through the heavens in which he spoke to Allah, he was asked by a companion, Abu Dahrr, whether he also saw God, the Prophet's reply (PBUH) was...

"There was only light, how could I see Him?” (Saheeh Muslim)

You don't have to resort to lies, Mr truthman!
[/size]

Huum!!

How much of islam do you know?

Muhammad claimed he saw allahh who reduced your salat to 5 from 50 per day. Isn't it?

I swear by the star
when it goes
down.Your
companion does not
err, nor does he go
astray; Nor does he
speak out of desire.
It is naught but
revelation that is
revealed, The Lord
of Mighty Power has
taught him, The
Lord of Strength; so
he attained
completion, And he
is in the highest
part of the horizon.
Then he drew near,
then he bowed. So
he was the measure
of two bows or
closer still. And He
revealed to His
servant what He
revealed. The heart
was not untrue in
(making him see)
what he saw. WHAT! DO YOU THEN DISPUTE WITH HIM AS TO WHAT HE SAW?
And
certainly he SAW HIM
in another
descent, At the
farthest lote-tree;
Near which is the
garden, the place to
be resorted to.
When that which
covers covered the
lote-tree; The eye
did not turn aside,
nor did it exceed
the limit. Certainly
he saw of the
greatest signs of his
Lord.
Qur'an 53:1-18

Therefore Muhammad must have contradicted the quran for seeing your allah who it says no vision can grasp.

Empiree:
You have confirmed Quran's allegations to be true. You are like a christian guy I met before who said bible is word of God, word of Satan, word of man, word of Angel

Whose words is the quran? There are clear evidences from the qupan that Muhammad's words are clearly manifested in it.

Besides, the quran is incomplete without the words of Muhammad, a mortal man, which you call hadiths. Why is it that the quran doesn't contain everything about islam and have to largely depend on Muhammad who came from idolaterous background?

truthman2012:


Whose words is the quran? There are clear evidences from the qupan that Muhammad's words are clearly manifested in it.

Besides, the quran is incomplete without the words of Muhammad, a mortal man, which you call hadiths. Why is it that the quran doesn't contain everything about islam and have to largely depend on Muhammad who came from idolaterous background?

Bla bla bla bla. You are under pressure mister. Dont suffer panic attack over this. Talks are not enough. All you have to do is provide "Muhammad's(SAW) words" in the Quran. Hadith remains secondary source. Whether it's a daif or fabricated hadith is another story.

See, if you think you can be smart, you have got smarter muslims ready to confont your nonsnse allegations. You are done like dinner.

Empiree:
Bla bla bla bla. You are under pressure mister. Dont suffer panic attack over this. Talks are not enough. All you have to do is provide "Muhammad's(SAW) words" in the Quran. Hadith remains secondary source. Whether it's a daif or fabricated hadith is another story.

See, if you think you can be smart, you have got smarter muslims ready to confont your nonsnse allegations. You are done like dinner.

Trash!!

Why do you need a secondary source if the quran is complete?