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Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Ovacoma: 12:18am On Jun 12, 2015 |
ZoranderGraeme:Jesus says ask in my name, His immediate disciples obey, y not today Christians? I can ask u why u face mecca to pray, but its none of my business. We don't serve d same God. I have read many writings by Christians quoting the quran, Muslims reply has mostly been 'you are quoting out of context' u don't understand Arabic'. And this i know, Jesus in the Bible is not the same wither quran. Only a foolish man, will say they are the same. The same goes for Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, Mary, etc. one is correct, one is force. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 12:18am On Jun 12, 2015 |
Ovacoma: Quote a verse in the Quran that condones terrorism or suicide bombings or where you got 72 virgins from? Every idiott that detonates a bomb believing he's doing Gods will makes me sick to the stomach. Muhammad (SAW) will be disappointed with some muslims. If you go to the islamic section you'd see that I try as hard as possible to preach islam as I and most muslims see it, a religion of peace and mercy. And don't start with that Apc political mumbo jumbo, its BS! The sooner you realise it the better, what evidence do you have against people in the great white north who believe it was your fmr president who is responsible? Its all BS! You should read my topic on islam and terrorism, unfortunately there's a wicked moderator that has been restricting my movements. How can you worship a man who ate drank and shat like you? How can you worship someone who canyt create a single fly? How can you worship one who can't save himself? Who can you worship someone who prays to another? Someone who admits that it is God not he who is good? Yusuf Ali: O men! Here is a parable set forth! listen to it! Those on whom, besides Allah, ye call, cannot create (even) a fly, if they all met together for the purpose! and if the fly should snatch away anything from them, they would have no power to release it from the fly. Feeble are those who petition and those whom they petition! 22:73 |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Ovacoma: 12:31am On Jun 12, 2015 |
ZoranderGraeme:please, is it true that isa in d quran used clay to form a bird and gave it life? I am just curious. Leave Jesus in the Bible alone for now. @ least allah gave muslims a book to follow, or it is not enough? But, i like to hear about d bird and isa, please. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 12:32am On Jun 12, 2015 |
Ovacoma: Lol! We face the kaaba and not Mecca to pray, the kaaba is merely a focal point for all worshippers to face and it unites the muslim umma. Please quote such verses, there's a difference between translation and interpretation. Jesus in the bible cannot be the same as that in the Quran, atleast in some parts, since you see him as a god and we a mortal prophet. Like I always say, Jesus of nazareth the brown palestinian jew is different from jesus christ the blue eyed blonde who Is just basically the Sun god horus. Sahih International: And to Allah belongs the east and the west. So wherever you [might] turn, there is the Face of Allah. Indeed, Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing. Quran 2:115 |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Ovacoma: 12:41am On Jun 12, 2015 |
ZoranderGraeme:yes Jesus in the Bible is different, and not only that, Aaron, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph are all different, as said earlier, only a fool wi say they are the same! I still like to know if isa really used clay to make a bird or not. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 12:44am On Jun 12, 2015 |
Ovacoma: And will make him [('Îsa (Jesus)] a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, a figure like that of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's Leave and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allah's Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe. The Noble Quran |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 12:52am On Jun 12, 2015 |
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Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 12:52am On Jun 12, 2015 |
Ovacoma: The difference is clear and simple, the Quranic version speaks the truth while the biblical version...not so much. A book written by many authors, some even anonymous, who sometimes contradict themselves. But the Quran, is iron clad. Sahih International This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -2:2 Sahih International: It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding. Quran 3:7 |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Ovacoma: 12:54am On Jun 12, 2015 |
ZoranderGraeme:if ordinary messenger of allah can create bird and breath into it to give it life, HOW MUCH MORE THE KING OF kings AND THE LORD OF lords? 1 timothy 6:15, Revelation 17:14 , Revelation 19:16. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 1:17am On Jun 12, 2015 |
Ovacoma: Muhammad split the moon in half, but we muslims don't brag about these miracles. Moses split a sea in half, turned his staff into a snake, etc. Besides, You did the part that says he performed miracles through the will of Allah did you not? Infact Jesus (pbuh) is unlike most prophets, he was born of virgin birth, spoke as an infant and many other outstanding characteristics. But again, only through the will of the Almighty. Sahih International And they swear by Allah their strongest oaths that if a sign came to them, they would surely believe in it. Say, "The signs are only with Allah ." And what will make you perceive that even if a sign came, they would not believe.6:109 Say: "Who is the Lord and Sustainer of the heavens and the earth?" Say: "It is Allah." Say: "Do ye then take (for worship) protectors other than Him such as have no power either for good or for harm to themselves?" Say: "Are the blind equal with those who see? Or the depths of darkness equal with Light?" Or do they assign to Allah partners who have created (anything) as He has created so that the creation seemed to them similar? Say: "Allah is the Creator of all things: He is the One the Supreme and Irresistible." Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 6 Surah Anaam verse 1: 1 Praise be to Allah Who created the heavens and the earth and made the darkness and the light. Yet those who reject faith hold (others) as equal with their Guardian-Lord. Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 6 Surah Anaam verse 102: 102 That is Allah your Lord! There is no god but He! The Creator of all things: then worship ye Him: and He hath power to dispose of all affairs. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Ovacoma: 11:50am On Jun 12, 2015 |
ZoranderGraeme:i have to let you know one important thing that i dont believe a single word from the quran, hence i dont quote from it, i just read what muslims and those who are interested in it quote from it. d op here used Bible, you keep quoting the quran to support your arguments. i dont believe a single word from the quran, and if i want to learn about it i think islam section is there. any writing, outside the Bible, to me, is man-made or satan-made. please quote where it was prophesied that muhammad would split the moon in the Bible. allah you keep mentioning here is not the same God Jews and Christians worship, so, there should be no confusion. or the same allah would command some people to destroy the children of Israel, the descendants of Abraham, and the Christians? |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Anas09: 12:19pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
Only the lying allah has only one messenger. After mohammed allah got so shy of talking to anyone else. Lol. Even other elementary gods have many messengers through diff generations. I must confess. Satan is working very hard to really prove to God that he will also be worshipped as god. See how Muslim are defending Satan with their lives. Hmm. Na wao. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 2:26pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
Ovacoma: Why don't you? But you believe in the bible? A book with multiple contradictions, inaccuracies and ghost writers? Sahih International This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -2:2 Sahih International: [This is] the revelation of the Book about which there is no doubt from the Lord of the worlds. Sahih International: And it was not [possible] for this Qur'an to be produced by other than Allah , but [it is] a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of the [former] Scripture, about which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds. 10:37 Yusuf Ali: Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book (Jews and christians) are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. 3:113 Pickthall: Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud.5:82 |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 2:39pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
Anas09: Only Muhammad? Yusuf Ali: For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), "Serve Allah, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth). 16:36 God: Horus Born on December 25th Born of a virgin Star in the east Adored by 3 kings Teach at 12 Baptized at 30 12 Disciples Performed Miracles Known as "Lamb of God", "The Light" Crucified Dead for 3 days Resurrected Horus was a ONE EYED Egyptian SUN GOD, christians go to church on SUNDay. Narrated Ibn Umar: Once Allah's Apostle stood amongst the people, glorified and praised Allah as He deserved. Then, mentioning Dajjal, he said, "I warn you against him (i.e. the Dajjal) and there was no prophet but warned his nation against him. No doubt, Noah warned his nation against him but I tell you about him something of which no prophet told his nation before me. You should know that he is ONE EYED, and Allah is not ONE EYED. Yusuf Ali: "I will mislead them, and I will create in them false desires; I will order them to slit the ears of cattle, and to deface the (fair) nature created by Allah." Whoever, forsaking Allah, takes satan for a friend, hath of a surety suffered a loss that is manifest.4:119 Who worships satan? |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Scholar8200(m): 2:46pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
ZoranderGraeme:Where do you stand?I take it that all these (virgin birth etc) do not stand true for the jesus in the quran then! . By the way, This horus hocus pocus was an update to an extant lie; an act that must have occured early in the CE period just like the discovered 'gospel of Barnabas' that claimed Jesus was married!(Indeed, the devil is the author of confusion!) Horus/Osiris/Semiramis/Isis etc all started at Babel after the flood at a time when the world was of one language and were familiar with God's declaration in Genesis 3:15. 1. The era of horus was at a time when the world was very young nations were still at a very formative/filial stage; no Roman empire nor crucifixion as means of punishing criminals; 2. Baptism in the river was unknown till John the baptist who baptized horus? 3.who were the multitudes healed? Of what sickness and disease? 4. What prophecies preceded horus and what was the purpose of his 'death' and 'resurrection' 5. Where did he go after 'resurrection'? 6.How on earth did they trace the 25th of December at a time after the flood? (Nimrod, father of Tammuz/horus was killed by one of Noah's sons) around 2500BC? 7. Who were his 12 'disciples'?At least we know the names of the ones with Jesus! 8.What was the purpose of his coming? 9. Which 3 kings existed from the east after the flood that worshipped horus!? 10 what did he teach who and in what language? Where are the details of his teachings? what prophecies did he give? I guess he also must have quoted from the OT like Jesus did?! These are questions that reveal the lie of the claim! |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 3:00pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
Scholar8200: The fact that you deny the existence of these gods especially horus is just proof of how blind you arem No doubt these gods existed, no doubt these gods were worshipped and no doubt, they share similarities with jesus christ, atleast when you take away son of god, it may be a tad bit different but the hadith I quoted in that post to me explains everything. It explains why these gods will share similarities to the jesus christ you worship. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Scholar8200(m): 3:07pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
ZoranderGraeme:Read that post very well. horus son of Nimrod is worshipped today together with his mum, Semiramis no doubt. but the claims to similarities with Christ is a recent update. Why? Even the worship of horus was engineered by semiramis prostituting a prophecy of Christ (given by the Father in Genesis 3:15 after the fall) after Nimrod died! |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 3:21pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
Scholar8200: No! Horus precedes christ. And the worship of horus was engineered by prostituting the prophesy of the anti christ. Like Muhammad, says, every nation was warned about the anti christ. That explains why you find it in multiple mythology. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Scholar8200(m): 3:23pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
ZoranderGraeme:The anti christ is to come after Christ not before. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 3:26pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
Scholar8200: But the point is the hadith says, that every nation was warned about the antichrist, even though he is to come after. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Scholar8200(m): 3:52pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
ZoranderGraeme:The first prophecy of the anti-christ was given by Balaam in the pentateuch, centuries after horus and would the latter and his mum prostitute a prophecy given centuries after their death!? |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Ovacoma: 4:34pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
ZoranderGraeme:u sound stupid, please. Isn't that the reason we have all these bombings, killings and wars anywhere you find Muslims? You said Bible was written by many scholars, contains contradictions, etc and i said it is ok for me, and are quoting one sahil somewhere, for your information i don't read your quran quotes. My Bible is enough for me, my Jesus is more than sufficient for me. Satan/allah has nothing to add to my life. Syria, Iraq, Yemen, northeast Nigeria, etc shows who allah identity is. No matter how much you tried to ridicule the Bible/word of God, you will make me love it the more. As we have it today, none of allah controlled nations make the top 20 most peaceful countries. But always at war, conflict, killing, suicide bombings, etc are their hobbies. I wonder what someone gains by being a follower of warmonger muhammed! With all the war, tiny Israel has kept the whole allah controlled nations at bay for decades. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 4:50pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
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Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 4:55pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
Ovacoma: What about Russia Ukraine CAR Mexico Colombia the crusades, world war I world war I Hitler etc, is that all islam too? What about peaceful countries like Malaysia Turkey UAE KSA Indonesia etc. Why aren't they war mongers too? They're 100 percent muslim countries as well. The middle east has always been a sensitive area, that coupled with recent western interference and manipulations and you have a cluster f*ck of a situation. The war in the middle east is more of political and not religious, you need to understand that. And it seems you don't know anything about what's happening in Israel, you sit here cheering them thinking they are the enemies of your enemies but you're wrong, an average jew mocks the christian, an average jew will tell you he's glad his people killed jesus and given the chancetheyd do it again. But Israel is not holding the middle east ransom not by a long shot, they should just hope countries like KSA that have refused to interfere don't see it as a religious fight, so far its not, again its all political. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Ovacoma: 5:21pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
ZoranderGraeme:which church or denominations are fighting each other? they are not peaceful as you claim here, you would have mentioned syria few years back. But christians dont see d jews as enemy who killed Christ, the death and resurrection or Jesus is the basis of Christianity. what is happening in muslim section? we cannot comment there, you that come here are just too boring as you dont know what the Bibles says, yet want to teach or ridicule it. Anyway, you tried, i never wish anyone is banned from commenting in christian section, but, it will be fair to allow christians to also comment in muslims section. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 5:59pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
Ovacoma: Then which mosques are fighting each other? Which of the countries I mentioned is not as peaceful as I think? Exactly, you don't blame them but rather base your whole religion on his death, that's why the jews see you as schmucks. You may have nothing against them but they have everything against you, infact some jews like the lady who started the draw ****** contest sees christians as worse than muslims or just as repulsive, but you go about with rainbows shooting out your as* thinking they're youyr brothers, they are not! They hate you just as much as they hate us, they're just too smart to admit it. The islam section was created because of certain miscreants that like to throw insults at our religion and the prophet, when we can't insult Jesus, or any figure in christianity or the religion it self. I think if you read through any islamic thread here, you'll know what I mean. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Ovacoma: 8:00pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
ZoranderGraeme:but sunis and shiah are doing some drama in d middle east now. Sorry i am not expert in Islam sects. Peace is relative, even Islam means peace to its adherents, but very hard for non-muslims to see it. The Jews may hate us Christians, but i am yet to see how they express it the way Muslim do, by slaughtering Christians, force conversion, using suicide bombers, burning down churches, etc. The section should shouldn't have been forbidden to Christians as you come here to do the same thing you accuse Christians of. You have called Jesus horus here, and no one raised any eyebrows. You say whatever you like, drag d Name of our Lord on d ground, yet no anger. This explains y you are ready to blow urself up, u can't withstand any critism. Yet you are religion of peace, how can you have peace without the ability to tolerate other people opinions. Again, i say blocking us from commenting there is not fair, no topics of value there though. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 8:21pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
Ovacoma: I called jesus christ horus not jesus of nazareth. How dare I? Worthless as I am? Insult Jesus (pbuh)? A man I don't even come close to an atoms worth of? And are too blind to see the vulgar insults aimed at muslims? There's a limit to the sort of insults one can take, even though I personally take them with a pinch of salt or try to turn them into a joke its quite painful. How will you feel if some idiott calls your wife a harl*t? Most topics in islam section speak of islamic ethics, we, unlike you do not create threads to bash other religions, even if we do the moderators remove them so the only reason for you to go there is to spew vulgar insults. We mostly come to the genereal religion section to refute lies spread by your ignorant brothers. You talk about burning of churches and other heinous acts and I ask, did your christian crusaders not commit worse? Please tell me a single verse or hadith that condones such acts? Tell me how you came at the conclusion that suicide attacks are allowed in islam? When the prophet clearly says whoever commits such an act has boarded a ticket to hell? Islamic principle forbids burning of people and property, it forbids killing of women children and old men, how can you say these rascals are being muslims when they abandon these principles? Jkilling an innocent soul in islam is equal to killing the whole of humanity! How do you get the impression that the thugs you mentioned are muslims? Your misconceptions about Islam are truly painful! 1 Like |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Ovacoma: 10:04pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
ZoranderGraeme:so, the same Bible has two Jesuses? so its time to revenge the 'crusade'? I understand the Muslims don't insult Christianity! These are rhetorics, and no need for answers. But, can you go back to the topic, explain the muhammed existing in the Bible? No other sources, just the Bible, and Bible alone. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 11:35pm On Jun 12, 2015 |
Ovacoma: No! My point about crusades is christians have used the bible to justify mindless killings as well, doesn't mean the bible allows it. Hopefully soon, these pigs will be dealt with or they will see the error in their ways and one day, we'll be able to forget these dark times were ever upon us. Now to your point about the prophecies of Muhammad In the bible, I'll take them one after the other, give you a chance to explain or defend them or how or why you think these prophecies speak of someone else and not Muhammad. 1.The scepter shall not depart from Judah, Nor a lawgiver from between his feet, Until Shiloh comes; And to Him shall be the obedience of the people. —Genesis 49:10 This prophecy is read in the light of Qur'an 3:81 (you may or may not want to check the verse) as a prophecy of Muhammad. Some writers, like David Benjamin, believe that the Hebrew word Shiloh is actually a distortion of the Hebrew word "Shaluh" which means "Apostle/Messenger/One to be sent" or of the Hebrew word "Shiluah" which means "Apostle of God". |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Ovacoma: 10:07am On Jun 13, 2015 |
ZoranderGraeme:only Bible can interprete it! So, no point going to any other source as Bible came before, and may have been plagiarised, therefore, leave any other sources out. Sceptre has to do with royalty, and Judah is a tribe in Israel. I know king David is from the tribe and Israel assembled in shiloh many time. Anything pointing to muhammed here? Absolutely no. Or are u saying muhammed is Judah, or shiloh? I wouldn't read any other thing outside the Bible since we are not comparing the two books. I just want verses pointing to a man outside Israel, with another religion or new idea of God, 99 names, new way of worship, such as facing kaaba, bowing towards it, the black stone, etc, these are well known thing brought by muhammed. Just point to them in the Bible. Sorry for disturb. |
Re: Its Obvious That Muhammad Exist In Bible by Nobody: 10:17am On Jun 13, 2015 |
Ovacoma: Deuteronomy 18:18 18 I will raise up for them a prophet (Prophet) from among their brethren like you, and will put My words in his mouth; and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 And whoever will not hearken to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die. —Deuteronomy 18:18-20 Samau'al al-Maghribi, a Jewish mathematician who converted to Islam, pointed to Deuteronomy 18:18 in his book Convincing the Jews as a prophecy fulfilled by Muhammad. Samau'al argued in his book that since the children of Esau are described in Deuteronomy 2:4-6 [and in Numbers 20:14 as well] as the brethren of the children of Israel, the children of Ishmael can also be described the same way. The comparison between Moses and Muhammad is quite common in the Qur'an and the Islamic tradition. Ka'ab al-Ahbar said: "Verily God Most High divided His vision and His conversation between Muhammad and Moses. He spoke to Moses twice, and Muhammad saw Him twice. It is also reported in the books of hadiths that Muhammad declared before his companions that he and Ali are like Moses and Aaron. Some Muslim writers, like Muhammad Ali, interpreted Qur'an 46:10 as a reference to Deuteronomy 18:18. The witness from among the Children of Israel is thought to be Moses, and the one like him is believed to be Muhammad: Qur'an 73:15 was also interpreted by some Muslim writers, like Fethullah Gülen, as a reference to Deuteronomy 18:18. Similarly, Qur'an 53:3-4, where it has been stated that "Nor does he (Muhammad) speak of his own desire. It is but an Inspiration that is inspired [unto him]", was further interpreted by Muslim writers, as a reference to Deuteronomy 18:18 I can remember you admitting that Jesus was not like moses. Consider the lives of Moses and Jesus in the bible, then consider that of Moses and Muhammad. |
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