atoleybaba:
sir that is a one big fallacy created by u...

No, the bolded is Bibical if you want to look them up,
the other is true also, as most know.

johnw74:

Jesus was not liked because satan inspired people against Him, he still does.

Jw's are not liked because they are self righteous,
they even believe that they are saved by their own works.

Jesus is not liked because He made himself out to be God, which He is.

jw's are not liked because they make Him out to be "a god", and of course with
there only being one True God, then all others are false gods.

jw makes Jesus Christ out to be a false god.

I'm wondering what part is fallacy

Part of an Article:
The Society explains: "[Belief] involves taking in accurate knowledge of God's purposes and his way of salvation. Then faith has to be exercised in Jesus Christ as the Chief Agent of salvation. This places the Christian in a saved condition, but he must now persevere in doing God's will and continue to adhere to all of God's requirements for the rest of his life.Only then will he be saved to eternal life" (Watchtower, December 15, 1989, p. 30). To prevent any confusion regarding these requirements for salvation, the Society gives four requirements that must be fulfilled by each Jehovah's Witness.

Read all the Article on
What jw believe on being saved by works:
http://www.watchman.org/articles/jehovahs-witnesses/jehovahs-witnesses-working-out-their-salvation/

johnw74:


No, the bolded is Bibical if you want to look them up,
the other is true also, as most know.



I'm wondering what part is fallacy

Part of an Article:
The Society explains: "[Belief] involves taking in accurate knowledge of God's purposes and his way of salvation. Then faith has to be exercised in Jesus Christ as the Chief Agent of salvation. This places the Christian in a saved condition, but he must now persevere in doing God's will and continue to adhere to all of God's requirements for the rest of his life.Only then will he be saved to eternal life" (Watchtower, December 15, 1989, p. 30). To prevent any confusion regarding these requirements for salvation, the Society gives four requirements that must be fulfilled by each Jehovah's Witness.

Read all the Article on
What jw believe on being saved by works:
http://www.watchman.org/articles/jehovahs-witnesses/jehovahs-witnesses-working-out-their-salvation/

You know where to the truth about us. If u think u know ur side so well on the issue of salvation, form a thread and invite me for a cool discussion on that.

Dont derail this thread.

JMAN05:


You know where to the truth about us. If u think u know ur side so well on the issue of salvation, form a thread and invite me for a cool discussion on that.

Dont derail this thread.

no derailing man
jw said something fallacy
me answer jw
cool?

Article for atoleybaba re fallacy

Part of an Article:
The Society explains: "[Belief] involves taking in accurate knowledge of God's purposes and his way of salvation. Then faith has to be exercised in Jesus Christ as the Chief Agent of salvation. This places the Christian in a saved condition, but he must now persevere in doing God's will and continue to adhere to all of God's requirements for the rest of his life.Only then will he be saved to eternal life" (Watchtower, December 15, 1989, p. 30). To prevent any confusion regarding these requirements for salvation, the Society gives four requirements that must be fulfilled by each Jehovah's Witness.

Read all the Article on
What jw believe on being saved by works:
http://www.watchman.org/articles/jehovahs-witnesses/jehovahs-witnesses-working-out-their-salvation/

johnw74:
Article for atoleybaba re fallacy

Part of an Article:
The Society explains: "[Belief] involves taking in accurate knowledge of God's purposes and his way of salvation. Then faith has to be exercised in Jesus Christ as the Chief Agent of salvation. This places the Christian in a saved condition, but he must now persevere in doing God's will and continue to adhere to all of God's requirements for the rest of his life.Only then will he be saved to eternal life" (Watchtower, December 15, 1989, p. 30). To prevent any confusion regarding these requirements for salvation, the Society gives four requirements that must be fulfilled by each Jehovah's Witness.

Read all the Article on
What jw believe on being saved by works:
http://www.watchman.org/articles/jehovahs-witnesses/jehovahs-witnesses-working-out-their-salvation/

all ur quotes are gotten from past teachings and not present
...like what someone told u earlier, jaw found out that some of their teachings where not the right thing and so they made necessary adjustment....eg dy celebrated xmmas before. Am not interested in entering argument. Don't base ur belief of witnesses on some junks written on the net, instead do a proper research. Research like participant observation. I rest my case there sir

atoleybaba:
all ur quotes are gotten from past teachings and not present
...like what someone told u earlier, jaw found out that some of their teachings where not the right thing and so they made necessary adjustment....eg dy celebrated xmmas before. Am not interested in entering argument. Don't base ur belief of witnesses on some junks written on the net, instead do a proper research. Research like participant observation. I rest my case there sir

Can accurate unquestionable truth be outdated?

atoleybaba:
all ur quotes are gotten from past teachings and not present
...like what someone told u earlier, jaw found out that some of their teachings where not the right thing and so they made necessary adjustment....eg dy celebrated xmmas before. Am not interested in entering argument. Don't base ur belief of witnesses on some junks written on the net, instead do a proper research. Research like participant observation. I rest my case there sir

point is, it's jw teachings (man's), and not God's inspired teachings,
is why it needs to be often changed,
and there have been mamy many changes.

johnw74:


point is, it's jw teachings (man's), and not God's inspired teachings,
is why it needs to be often changed,
and there have been mamy many changes.

it is inspired of God....jw broke out from force religion and as d years goes by, they started avin full knowledge of the scriptures I know where u normally read your junks never told u that jaw were once called bible students. Jw is a religion that loves to admit their mistake when they are been corrected by the bible unlike the so called other christian religion whose pride and arrogance and fear of losing people(bad market) won't let them see their own mistake. If jw was not God inspired, they will still dwell on past teachings that they tot..Buh no they did not as they studied d bible further, they found revealing truths and they try their best to live by it. Even is real of old a nation inspired by God took wrong steps when trying to please God yet God did not abandon them, he gave d honest hearted ones who really wanted to do his will chance. Why don't u stop critising jw cause of their past teachings and do a personal bible study for yourself Buh this time do d study with clean heart and not with what you where tot in ur church...try to understand d bible. And that reminds me someone asked you to point out any recent jw teachings that is not in the bible. If u can do that with concrete evidence from the bible and without twisting. Then "probably" u may have a point. I know you av plenty questions bothering you has a human that even ur church don't av answers to. Drop your ego and ask any jw. U will see how they will answer you with the scripture with any edition of the bible of your choice be it KJV or any other translation

paulGrundy:


Can accurate unquestionable truth be outdated?

like I said earlier. “The path of the righteous ones
is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until
the day is firmly established.” (Proverbs 4:18 ) Increasing
light from Jehovah continues to illuminate the path of jw. It refines them organizationally, doctrinally, and
morally. I just someone that jw broke out from all other christianity that still hold on to false teachings Buh has jw cont to study d bible, they keep getting the spiritual truth and as humbly servants of Jehovah, they are ever willing to bend their teachings and practices to fit what Jehovah wants based on what is written in his word. I hope u can use discernment and wisdom to get ur answer from what has been written

onila:
I have always been skeptical abt some churches
but being abroad for a while
I became open minded all of a sudden

One day after an exam, I went to the mall
looking all tired and depressed

oh well, JW preachers approached me and invited me to their church
I didnt mind because I havent been to church for like 6 months
I gave them my address
on sunday, one of their members came to pick me up

so far, it has been a good experience
JW pple are some of the nicest pple I have met
very welcoming and friendly

its nice experiencing other pples way of Life

grateful

Is it being friendly and nice or teaching the right thing? Try scientology you will find them friendlier.

atoleybaba:
like I said earlier. “The path of the righteous ones
is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until
the day is firmly established.” (Proverbs 4:18 ) Increasing
light from Jehovah continues to illuminate the path of jw. It refines them organizationally, doctrinally, and
morally. I just someone that jw broke out from all other christianity that still hold on to false teachings Buh has jw cont to study d bible, they keep getting the spiritual truth and as humbly servants of Jehovah, they are ever willing to bend their teachings and practices to fit what Jehovah wants based on what is written in his word. I hope u can use discernment and wisdom to get ur answer from what has been written

So if I get you correctly, are you saying that the teachings you base your life on, could later turn out to be untruthful e.g. blood transfusion? You are saying that the society once taught apostasy as "meat in due season"? and might currently be teaching apostasy?

If that's the case, then JW's have no right to call other christain teachings apostasy, or accusing then to spreading the teachings of "babylon the great".
I also think they don't have any right to demand unquestionable loyalty to the teachings of the governing body?

What do you think?

johnw74:


point is, it's jw teachings (man's), and not God's inspired teachings,
is why it needs to be often changed,
and there have been mamy many changes.

It was people like you in the early christian era that spoke against the christian fath, judging them in human terms.

Knowledge is not instant, it is not Automatic. It is gradual even according to Gods will and purpose.

With your pattern of reasoning, you wouldve critisized the first century christians because as understanding became clearer, they changed beliefs to fit.

atoleybaba:
it is inspired of God....jw broke out from force religion and as d years goes by, they started avin full knowledge of the scriptures I know where u normally read your junks never told u that jaw were once called bible students. Jw is a religion that loves to admit their mistake when they are been corrected by the bible unlike the so called other christian religion whose pride and arrogance and fear of losing people(bad market) won't let them see their own mistake. If jw was not God inspired, they will still dwell on past teachings that they tot..Buh no they did not as they studied d bible further, they found revealing truths and they try their best to live by it. Even is real of old a nation inspired by God took wrong steps when trying to please God yet God did not abandon them, he gave d honest hearted ones who really wanted to do his will chance. Why don't u stop critising jw cause of their past teachings and do a personal bible study for yourself Buh this time do d study with clean heart and not with what you where tot in ur church...try to understand d bible. And that reminds me someone asked you to point out any recent jw teachings that is not in the bible. If u can do that with concrete evidence from the bible and without twisting. Then "probably" u may have a point. I know you av plenty questions bothering you has a human that even ur church don't av answers to. Drop your ego and ask any jw. U will see how they will answer you with the scripture with any edition of the bible of your choice be it KJV or any other translation

Try and visit www.jwfacts.com

JW is a millinerian sect that broke out of 7th day adventist as a result of the disagreement between charles Russell and barbour.

always try and verify the information you see on jw.org or any other site

BIBLESPEAKS:



It was people like you in the early christian era that spoke against the christian fath, judging them in human terms.

Knowledge is not instant, it is not Automatic. It is gradual even according to Gods will and purpose.

With your pattern of reasoning, you wouldve critisized the first century christians because as understanding became clearer, they changed beliefs to fit.

Everybody speaks against the early church. Even common cherubim and seraphim is the early church.

When you attack and bully other posters because of their beliefs in trinity and arc-angel micheal have you ever reason that people like your type attack the early church??

What a narrow minded, self-centered way of reasoning!!!

By the way, where is BERNIMORE? Am wondering why you haven't released him to attack johnw74 like you always do to watchtower critics?

paulGrundy:


Try and visit www.jwfacts.com

JW is a millinerian sect that broke out of 7th day adventist as a result of the disagreement between charles Russell and barbour.

always try and verify the information you see on jw.org or any other site

I don't av anything to tell u again

paulGrundy:


So if I get you correctly, are you saying that the teachings you base your life on, could later turn out to be untruthful e.g. blood transfusion? You are saying that the society once taught apostasy as "meat in due season"? and might currently be teaching apostasy?

If that's the case, then JW's have no right to call other christain teachings apostasy, or accusing then to spreading the teachings of "babylon the great".
I also think they don't have any right to demand unquestionable loyalty to the teachings of the governing body?

What do you think?

no....our view is now clearer about blood transfusion and bible backing so it will not change

atoleybaba:
no....our view is now clearer about blood transfusion and bible backing so it will not change

Its very sad that you have a shallow knowledge of your organizations history. WT's view of blood transfusion has changed and is still changing. Check out these watchtower quotes:

Blood transfusions

Originally Allowed. Blood transfusions and donating blood for transfusion is commended (Golden Age 1925 July 29 p.683, Golden Age 1929 May 1 p.502, Consolation 1940 December 25 p.19)

1945 - Forbidden. Blood transfusions first stated as wrong (Watchtower 1945 July 1 p.198-201)

1961 - Became a disfellowshipping offence (Watchtower 1961 January 15 pp.63-64)

In 1961 it was clearly specified that blood law applies to both whole blood and components of blood such as blood fractions and haemoglobin.

"If you have reason to believe that a certain product contains blood or a blood fraction if the label says that certain tablets contain hemoglobin this is from blood...a Christian knows, without asking, that he should avoid such a preparation. Watchtower 1961 November 1 p.669

Gradually becoming allowed again

1982 - Blood components are listed with some minor components allowed. Major components and hemodilution are forbidden. (Awake! 1982 June 22 p.25)

1995 - Acute Normovolemic Hemodilution (ANH) and autologous blood salvage procedure (Cell Saver) are acceptable despite being briefly stored outside the blood. (Watchtower 1995 August 1 p.30)

2000 - Major change to blood policy, with all of blood now being allowed when converted to minor fractions.

"...when it comes to fractions of any of the primary components, each Christian, after careful and prayerful meditation, must conscientiously decide for himself." Watchtower 2000 June 15 pp.29-31

2004 - Hemoglobin, a major component of blood by weight is specifically permitted - In the Watchtower 2004 June 15 it is shown graphically that transfusions of whole blood and transfusions of the 'major' components of blood are forbidden. 'Major' components are stated to be red cells, white cells, plasma and platelets. However, fractions of these four components may be used. In other words, when blood is broken down into small enough components 100% of it can be transfused by a Jehovah's Witness.

Determining Which Components to allow

In 1958 the criteria for determining what is acceptable related to whether the components 'nourished' the body, leading to serums being allowed.

Watchtower 1958 September 15 p.575

"While God did not intend for man to contaminate his blood stream by vaccines, serums or blood fractions, doing so does not seem to be included in God's expressed will forbidding blood as food. It would therefore be a matter of individual judgment whether one accepted such types of medication or not."

In 1982 the concept of 'nourishment' was replaced with a consideration of whether a fraction was a 'major' component. Major components are forbidden but certain minor components are allowed.

Awake! 1982 June 22 p.25 "While these verses are not stated in medical terms, Witnesses view them as ruling out transfusion of whole blood, packed RBCs, and plasma, as well as WBC and platelet administration. However, Witnesses' religious understanding does not absolutely prohibit the use of components such as albumin, immune globulins, and hemophiliac preparations; each Witness must decide individually if he can accept these."

In 1990 the consideration for which minor components can be use was related to placenta transfer.

Watchtower 1990 June 1 p.31 "That some protein fractions from the plasma do move naturally into the blood system of another individual (the fetus) may be another consideration when a Christian is deciding whether he will accept immune globulin, albumin, or similar injections of plasma fractions. One person may feel that he in good conscience can; another may conclude that he cannot. Each must resolve the matter personally before God."

In 2000, the rule was greatly simplified. A "major" component cannot be used but a "minor" one can, though the following section will show there is no basis or logic behind such reasoning. This distinction is identified in the 2008 book Keep Yourself in God's Love

.
http://www.jwfacts.mobi/watchtower/blood-transfusions.php

paulGrundy:


Everybody speaks against the early church. Even common cherubim and seraphim is the early church.

When you attack and bully other posters because of their beliefs in trinity and arc-angel micheal have you ever reason that people like your type attack the early church??

What a narrow minded, self-centered way of reasoning!!!

By the way, where is BERNIMORE? Am wondering why you haven't released him to attack johnw74 like you always do to watchtower critics?

JMAN05:


You know where to the truth about us. If u think u know ur side so well on the issue of salvation, form a thread and invite me for a cool discussion on that.

Dont derail this thread.

What, do you mean a discussion like this?

https://www.nairaland.com/2242343/two-things-need-know-jehovahs/4#34441666

https://www.nairaland.com/2242343/two-things-need-know-jehovahs/4#34472735

paulGrundy:


Everybody speaks against the early church. Even common cherubim and seraphim is the early church.

When you attack and bully other posters because of their beliefs in trinity and arc-angel micheal have you ever reason that people like your type attack the early church??

What a narrow minded, self-centered way of reasoning!

---

!!
[size=14pt]
By the way, where is BERNIMORE?[/size] Am wondering why you haven't released him to attack johnw74 like you always do to watchtower critics?

paulgrundy a.k.a yooguyz, , I am making money elsewhere with my time, check my profile, i have a good buz now with ekiti state government, apart from my normal work routine, but now,by accident I came accross this today and feel to address this after seeing it by chance, because I don't even have time for this again but will create it asap, I have your time, blockhead like you will never listen to the fact that I am not a Jehovah's witnesses I am even more of a politician now than being religious, I will resume my friendly and Sour discussion which I enjoyed most when you were a Gay remember that night you had with your fathers assistant pastor in SA, bam!!! He let you loose, and here you are living your life as a woman in a man,s skin can you deny that? Pls do now! and I will expose you ;lets go oya!!

After calling me and charism Yooguyz, I wonder why you have not reffered to johnw74 as yooguyz. BERNIMORE/BIBLESPEAKS/truthislight

paulGrundy:
After calling me and charism Yooguyz, I wonder why you have reffered to johnw74 as yooguyz. BERNIMORE/BIBLESPEAKS/truthislight

show the forum exactly where I call johnw74 as yooguyz, since I quoted only your post, i never met or ever engage in any discussion with one johnw74 which you are shamelessly trying to use in a fight mainly meant for you, you must have been stealing meat in the pot secretly when you are younger and will shout another person's name who is innocent as the stealer why? , that's what you are trying to do with this innocent johnw74, stop using people to cover up your stealing stuff, anyway i am waiting for that post where I refer to johnw74 as yooguyz, stop stealing meat and pick pocketing boy at your age (26) Lest I forget you did not (1) deny your gay status nor deny having an unnatural man to man soddomy with your fathers assistant pastor, (2) that you are an impersonator on nairaland, true or false?

Paulgrundy impersonator, I watch you shamefully adding the word 'not' to your sentence today so as to make your sentence read another meaning[, after I have busted your intention to use johnw74 in a fight directed at you! I think johnw74 will be wiser not to join issues with you because You can see now that you are a fraud! Just on this thread you demonstrate that! But can't you see that I have already quoted your sentence before you added 'not' ole! no wonder you can't reply me till now before secretly adding 'Not'

[size=18pt]before [/size]

paulGrundy:
After calling me and charism Yooguyz, I wonder why you have reffered to johnw74 as yooguyz. BERNIMORE/BIBLESPEAKS/truthislight

[size=18pt]After alteration today 'not' was added by you[/size]

paulGrundy:
After calling me and charism Yooguyz, I wonder why you have[size=18pt]not[/size] reffered to johnw74 as yooguyz. BERNIMORE/BIBLESPEAKS/truthislight

busted! Again and again! Coded (hx1)

BERNIMOORE:
Paulgrundy impersonator, I watch you shamefully adding the word 'not' to your sentence today so as to make your sentence read another meaning[, after I have busted your intention to use johnw74 in a fight directed at you! I think johnw74 will be wiser not to join issues with you because You can see now that you are a fraud! Just on this thread you demonstrate that! But can't you see that I have already quoted your sentence before you added 'not' ole! no wonder you can't reply me till now before secretly adding 'Not'

You never called me Yooguyz

so why would paulGrundy say you did?

leaving out "not" is just a mistake he made in typing out his post
which he fixed after you pointed it out

I'm interisted in those other things you said though

Bernimoore: remember that night you had with your fathers assistant pastor in SA, bam!!! He let you loose, and here you are living your life as a woman in a man,s skin

Bernimoore: I forget you did not (1) deny your gay status nor deny having an unnatural man to man soddomy with your fathers assistant pastor, (2) that you are an impersonator on nairaland, true or false?

Could he secretely be a happy little vegemite??

johnw74:



You never called me Yooguyz

so why would paulGrundy say you did?

leaving out "not" is just a mistake he made in typing out his post
which he fixed after you pointed it out

I'm interisted in those other things you said though





Could he secretely be a happy little vegemite??

Stop quoting trolls, they are intent on derailing threads. They don't have anything meaningful to contribute to conversations. Your report button is not there for decoration use it.

paulGrundy:


Stop quoting trolls, they are intent on derailing threads. They don't have anything meaningful to contribute to conversations. Your report button is not there for decoration use it.

You practically invited him here

paulGrundy:


By the way, where is BERNIMORE?

johnw74:


You practically invited him here

I was only trying to be sarcastic..

This is a case of sarcasm gone sour.

By the way, threads that are critical of JW's aka watchtower is his invitation card.

paulGrundy:


Stop quoting trolls, they are intent on derailing threads. They don't have anything meaningful to contribute to conversations. Your report button is not there for decoration use it.

Oh my! , wow! Wow! Wow!. So you now feel that their is an intent to derail the thread!?!!.

Have you forgoten the title for the thread and what the op was talking about before you decided to derail it?

The thread was not criticizing the organization, and how it arranges its gatherings and how warm and inviting such gatherings are.
The thread even emphasized on how such gatherings are not turned into a money making event for the organization. These good things ur cloudy eyes cannot see as you are desperate to criticize the good things said about the meetings the organization organized.

You invited bernimore, weda sacasticaly, humbly or by any other mistake you could come up with, the fact is that you invited him. He is now here and has made accusations against you that calls into question the verry reason of ur existence both in nairaland and in the real world.
If I'm being accused of something in such manner and level as bernimore has done, I will do everything within the powers confered on my moniker by nairaland to clear my name.
But if there is nothing to clear and my character, nature, lifestyle, behavior, conscience, goal , is the same as that portrayed in the accusation, then ill probably reply the same way you do.

Is that you on ur profile, is that little innocent child you put there yours?

dolphinheart:



Oh my! , wow! Wow! Wow!. So you now feel that their is an intent to derail the thread!?!!.

Have you forgoten the title for the thread and what the op was talking about before you decided to derail it?

The thread was not criticizing the organization, and how it arranges its gatherings and how warm and inviting such gatherings are.
The thread even emphasized on how such gatherings are not turned into a money making event for the organization. These good things ur cloudy eyes cannot see as you are desperate to criticize the good things said about the meetings the organization organized.

You invited bernimore, weda sacasticaly, humbly or by any other mistake you could come up with, the fact is that you invited him. He is now here and has made accusations against you that calls into question the verry reason of ur existence both in nairaland and in the real world.
If I'm being accused of something in such manner and level as bernimore has done, I will do everything within the powers confered on my moniker by nairaland to clear my name.
But if there is nothing to clear and my character, nature, lifestyle, behavior, conscience, goal , is the same as that portrayed in the accusation, then ill probably reply the same way you do.

Is that you on ur profile, is that little innocent child you put there yours?

My quotes are in line with the subject of the thread, which is about jehovahs witness. Hence there is no derailments or insults made to anyone.

This is social forum not a e-court, this is a place to contribute intelligent posts to threads, a place to learn and exchange ideas. Don't take any critique of the watchtower as an attack on your religion. Open your mind so that you can see all facets of the truth.

Don't take any post personal.

Sorry, kpele.

paulGrundy:


My quotes are in line with the subject of the thread, which is about jehovahs witness. Hence there is no derailments or insults made to anyone.

This is social forum not a e-court, this is a place to contribute intelligent posts to threads, a place to learn and exchange ideas. Don't take any critique of the watchtower as an attack on your religion. Open your mind so that you can see all facets of the truth.

Don't take any post personal.

Sorry, kpele.

1. The thread is not about jehovahs witneses. The thread is about what a persons experiences when visiting or attending a gathering of witnesses, these you have detailed.

2.this social forum is not just for contribution of intelligent post, but an avenue to make ones beliefs and views known, corrected, explained, and have questions answered . On the religious section, our beliefs is more discussed than our opinion.
Our beliefs is part of who the creator of such moniker really is and says a lot about the person behind that moniker. If your statements contradict ur beliefs or views, then you are an hypocrite with no standard or principle and in religion , once a person is found to have a questionable character, all his words will be scrutinized and that is what is happening to you and ur posts(a reflection of the real person).

3. I see it as an attack on the watchtower when at every opportunity of showing their good works, behavior and spiritual progress, you don't make statements to support such good things but will always try to portray then in bad light using false statements.

4. I can not take ur post personal, you have not attacked me yet.
You have attacked the organization, and what is the result? They keep on growing with Spiritually minded and humble ones day by day. They answer ur numerous questions while you refuse to humbly answer questions posed to you, expecially on these thread .

5. Hope ur "sorry" and "kpele" are not sarcastic statements like the ones u aknowledged earlier. Sarcasm is not a good Christian traite to develop or continue developing.

6. Why have you not answered the questions posed to you on who you really are.

7.I believe I've allowed you to make me derail this thread long enough. Any futher discussion will be based on the threads main topic. If you want to discuss about ur character and person, reply bernimore in wateva format u wish.