italo:


Don't mind all those apostles who wrote the Bible in the wrong way. Peter wrote 1Pet3:21 wrong...the he said Acts 2:38 wrong...or maybe Peter said it well then Luke wrote it wrong...Mark wrote Mark 16:16 wrong.....John wrote John 3:5 wrong.

In the other thread you said Jesus time had come to perform a miracle in John 2, but John wrote wrongly that Jesus said his time hadn't come.

You said Mary's motherly role ended when Jesus started His ministry at 30, but the Bible authors called Mary his mother when he was on the cross at 33.

You have made yourself a teacher to the Holy Spirit who inspired these apostles to write wrongly.

Barnabaseloka:

Go and read all these posts you referred to and you will understand what I have written. You are the one that said that what the apostles wrote were wrongly written. I never said so. I learn from others and balance what I hear or say with other passages of the scriptures. Anyone who has read my posts will easily understand it. But you have taken it upon yourself not to undestand them, but to make quick conclusions that you know contradict other passages of the scriptures.

You failed to write expressely what happens to a person when he repents and believes in Christ Jesus, before baptism. What about those who received the Holy Spirit before water baptism- were they not saved? Will the Holy Spirit live inside one whose sins have not been washed away or remitted?

Learn from others but compare scripture with scripture to balance your understanding. People will keep living in error if they pick one or two passages that might not have correlated with other passages and interpret them as they are. This is why we need balancing them for proper understanding.

italo:


My brother, what won't we see on nairaland?

Barnabaseloka said Peter meant one thing but said another thing.

Scholar826 said Mary was not the Mother of Jesus.

Barnabaseloka said her motherhood stopped when he started preaching.

"He who the gods want to destroy, they will first make deaf/mad"--African proverb

italo:
Dodging questions again.

MuttleyLaff:
Did not try but pointed out that water in that verse is used as a symbol of God's Holy Spirit and His word
I can show countless use of "hydatos" as a symbol of God's Holy Spirit and His word.
It is not always literal or physical water

Barnabaseloka:

Go and read all these posts you referred to and you will understand what I have written. You are the one that said that what the apostles wrote were wrongly written. I never said so. I learn from others and balance what I hear or say with other passages of the scriptures. Anyone who has read my posts will easily understand it. But you have taken it upon yourself not to undestand them, but to make quick conclusions that you know contradict other passages of the scriptures.

You failed to write expressely what happens to a person when he repents and believes in Christ Jesus, before baptism. What about those who received the Holy Spirit before water baptism- were they not saved? Will the Holy Spirit live inside one whose sins have not been washed away or remitted?

Learn from others but compare scripture with scripture to balance your understanding. People will keep living in error if they pick one or two passages that might not have correlated with other passages and interpret them as they are. This is why we need balancing them for proper understanding.

italo:
U

Bros, leave me alone. You said the apostles wrote wrongly...

How can we have a discussion on wrongly written scriptures?

hahn:

Lol
I'm really enjoying this discussion
I wonder why god decided to inspire a book that contrdicts itself such much that its readers are unable to agree. The incompetence of god becomes more and more glaring with each comment made on this thread

Barnabaseloka:

Your problem on this issue is that you do not understand those who believe what you do not believe. You hold on to one or two passages and jump into conclusions with them. When someone brings other passages that speak on the same issue, you will not agree but hold on to yours.

If a passage says a thing and another passage seem not to have been written in the same way, how do you resolve that? You resolve it by checking other scriptural passages on that issue for better understanding and not to teach or live in error.

Go and read what I wrote on my conclusion in the thread about 'Mary being the mother of God' and you will understand me. Be open to learn from others but compare scripture with scripture to get a balanced understanding of a topic.

italo:
U

Bros, leave me alone. You said the apostles wrote wrongly...

How can we have a discussion on wrongly written scriptures?

italo:

The day your child misunderstands or chooses to misconstrue you word, you'd be an incompetent father?

Think!

hahn:


Lol

I'm really enjoying this discussion

I wonder why god decided to inspire a book that contrdicts itself such much that its readers are unable to agree. The incompetence of god becomes more and more glaring with each comment made on this thread

italo:


Stop lying. I have said several times that I believe all the verses are true.

You are the one who believes some verses were wrongly written.

That Peter said 'baptism is for remission of sin,' but he really meant 'baptism is NOT for the remission of sin.'

You said it was Jesus time in John 2, Jesus said his time hadn't come.

You said Mary's motherhood ended when he started preaching, the Bible called Mary his mother at the foot of the cross.

You said all who lived after Jesus would be judged by their faith in him, the Bible says the gentiles will be judged by their conscience.

You have told too many lies against the scriptures.

...and without remorse.

italo:


The Lord said it to his Church leaders, the apostles, not you or anyone else.

That is why when a dispute broke out, everyone including Paul, went back to the Church leaders in Jerusalem for the correct teaching. They didn't go to the Holy Spirit individually.

And listen to what the Church leaders said:

Acts 15

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that some going out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment:

28 For it hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us, to lay no further burden upon you than these necessary things:

So people need authority of the Church to teach authentic Christian doctrine

And it is what the Church teaches that please the Holy Ghost because He is the one that guides the Church to teach.

Barnabaseloka:

Bro. this topic will best be discussed by those who believe in God and not in god. I can understand that you do not believe in God from your write-up. I stand to be corrected. Know it now that christians must not agree with one another on every issue. What makes us believers is our FAITH IN Christ Jesus.

What are written in the Scriptures do not contradict, but explain one another. Only those who have believed in God and in Jesus Christ can farthom this. Understanding what is written in the scripture is by the Holy Spirit and not through human wisdom or philosophy. It is like a christian trying to argue with a moslem about the quaran.

italo:


Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." (Matt 19:4)

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

The Baptism of infants
1250    Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called.5 The sheer gratuitousness of the grace of salvation is particularly manifest in infant Baptism. The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth. (403, 1996)

Brocab: 'Do not let the little children come to Jesus.'

italo:


Stop lying. I have said several times that I believe all the verses are true.

You are the one who believes some verses were wrongly written.

That Peter said 'baptism is for remission of sin,' but he really meant 'baptism is NOT for the remission of sin.'

You said it was Jesus time in John 2, Jesus said his time hadn't come.

You said Mary's motherhood ended when he started preaching, the Bible called Mary his mother at the foot of the cross.

You said all who lived after Jesus would be judged by their faith in him, the Bible says the gentiles will be judged by their conscience.

You have told too many lies against the scriptures.

...and without remorse.

hahn:


I don't see how this is a justification of me not being able to contribute and learn.

If you say the water in the kettle you're holding is hot and I say it isn't all you have to do is pour the "hot" water on my hands. If indeed the water is hot ill confirm it is but if it is not you don't expect me to agree with you just because you said it was hot in the beginning

Barnabaseloka:

You are totally free to contribute and learn. I said that it would be BEST DISCUSSED by those who believe in God, unless you have believed in God and in Jesus. The reason for saying it is that this topic needs scriptural back-up as you have seen for yourself, not just only writing from human reasoning . If you do not lay hold on the scriptures to cement your point, how will you be understood here? Christians do not debate a topic based on human wisdom, philosophy and logic, but on the scriptures, through the help of the Holy Spirit. Nevertheless, be free to contribute and learn!

hahn:


Lol. I'm with y'all.

However, what strikes me is the fact that christians are only concerned about being saved. The whole idea of "being saved" is the only foundation of the average christian's morality.

And that's why you are all having this "debate". Faith or works? Will it be safe to say that a serial killer who believes in god(faith) will make heaven while a man who tries to treat everyone he encounters with love and fairness will go to hell just because he doesn't believe in god(works)?

It would seem that being kind to your neighbour, showing love to strangers, desisting from looting of public funds(as in the case of our christian political leaders), respecting other people's views and opinions, being truthful, keeping to your word, having integrity and other good "works" would seem like a burden to people who feel more comfortable with just having "faith" just so they can "make heaven". Afterall, if all one has to have to make heaven is faith then why should one care about one's staff who is unable to add milk in his daughter's ogi? What's my business with my neighbour who hasn't eaten? Why should I care about what happens to the victims of boko haram who have lost their parents, siblings or loved ones, their homes, their investments? Doing that won't matter as long as all you need is to have "faith"

Its pretty simple. I don't need to have "spiritual understanding" or cram the bible to be able to figure it out. Its common sense

Barnabaseloka:

I indeed understand you. But know that christians need spiritual understanding to be able to explain the things written in the bible correctly. It is not all about craming what is written in it.

Believing in Jesus Christ through 'faith' is a preliquisite for anyone to become a child of God (a believer). When one has now believed, then we talk of 'works' as you have written, but they are done through the help of the Holy Spirit. God sends the Holy Spirit into the life of anyone who believes in Christ Jesus to direct such a person. Faith and not 'works' brings one into Christ Jesus, while one needs 'works' to remain in Jesus if such a person wants to enter heaven at last.

Scholar8200:
Final submission:


Romans 3:25

25 whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Revelations 1:5

and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince oyf the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

He who believes and has been washed in the blood of the Lamb as indicated, can then, in obedience (like the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8,) be baptised in water.

Kei144:
The Making of a Covenant

Ge. 15:5 He took him outside and said, “Look up at the heavens and count the stars — if indeed you can count them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”
Ge. 15:6 Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
Ge. 15:7 He also said to him, “I am the LORD, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to take possession of it.”
Ge. 15:8 But Abram said, “O Sovereign LORD, how can I know that I shall gain possession of it?”
Ge. 15:9 So the LORD said to him, “Bring me a heifer, a goat and a ram, each three years old, along with a dove and a young pigeon.”
Ge. 15:10 Abram brought all these to him, cut them in two and arranged the halves opposite each other; the birds, however, he did not cut in half.
Ge. 15:11 Then birds of prey came down on the carcasses, but Abram drove them away.
Ge. 15:12 As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him.
Ge. 15:13 Then the LORD said to him, “Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and ill-treated four hundred years.
Ge. 15:14 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterwards they will come out with great possessions.
Ge. 15:15 You, however, will go to your fathers in peace and be buried at a good old age.
Ge. 15:16 In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure.”
Ge. 15:17 When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking brazier with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces.
Ge. 15:18 On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the river [Or Wadi] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates —
Ge. 15:19 the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites,
Ge. 15:20 Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites,
Ge. 15:21 Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”

Abraham believed the word of God and it was counted to him as righteousness. Because of this righteousness by faith, God entered into a covenant with Abraham. The making of this covenant between God and Abraham involved a physical ceremony. God participated in the ceremony when Abraham finished his own side of the ceremony. What if Abraham had decided that the physical ceremony was unnecessary, after all he already believed God and God counted it for him as righteousness? would there have been any covenant? Without the covenant, what would have been the fate of Abraham?

Mk. 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
Mk. 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptised will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

If any person believes the good news, God counts it to her/him as righteousness. The word of God carries the instruction that such a person should go through a physical ceremony of water baptism. Water baptism is a covenant ceremony between God and a person. Some people say that water baptism was a Jewish rite. Well, it is the rite for entering into covenant with the Jewish God. If you don't like it, the covenant between your ancestors and the gods of your place will remain binding on you.

https://www.nairaland.com/2352063/enter-kingdom-god-now#34536725

italo:
"Hydatos" is always water.

italo:
Show me one place that hydatos was translated as Holy Spirit or Word?

italo:
You mean Jesus was saying "except a man is born of hydatos-spirit and spirit...?"

italo:
That's another rubbish!

MuttleyLaff:
"Hydatos" is water and more

I am ahead of you.
I have earlier provided and hinted you the place where hydatos was used as an allegory or figure for the word of God
Look up https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/4#34885168

John 7:38
Anyone who believes in me may come and drink!
For the Scriptures declare, 'Rivers of living water will flow from his heart.'"

You eventually are coming round to the truth
Yes, Jesus said no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water (i.e. hydatos) and the Spirit.
Hydatos is an allegro or symbol for the word of God
Remember, faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God?
Without faith in the word of God, it's impossible to enter the kingdom of God

You post and print more genuine rubbish

brocab:
Yes when I was born, I was baptised by a priest, because my parents made a decision, as I grew, I started making choices' and later I made a choice to follow after Christ. And that choice I became a born again Christian, and baptised in the Holy Spirit..
Jesus as a baby was baptised into His Church, and later becoming a man after making that choice He was baptised by John the baptist.
Receiving the Holy Spirit.

When Jesus wrote: Matthew 19:14, let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them.
These children were pretty much of that age to believe. Babies, haven't the slightest idea what's going on.
And where in the bible talks about the baptism of infants-no-where.

Barnabaseloka:

Then post it here. You inferred that not me. I did not say that the apostles wrote anything wrongly!
This was what you wanted me to say, but thank God I wisely did not.

Barnabaseloka:

I am not averting your questions. I have to lay foundation first so that my answers will not be contradictory to the scriptures.
Baptism entails repentance in the sense that one must 'repent' before one is 'baptized'. At the point of repentance, the person becomes washed with the blood of Jesus and becomes a new person. This qualifies him to be called a child of God. Know that all these things happen inside the person (spiritually). The person now goes for water baptism to demostrate outwardly that which has happened inwardly. Remember that the 'spiritual' preceeds the 'physical'. So it is not at the point of baptism (physically) that one becoimes saved, but when one repents, and believes in Jesus Christ (spiritually).

Peter was right in what he said. To Peter, he understood what he had said, but to me, his words were not correlative. The word 'repent' has taken care of remission of sins and not baptism. He must have said a lot of words to PERSUADE them to believe (vs 40).

The same Peter before the incident quoted Joel in Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED. And after the incident Peter also said in Acts 3:19 REPENT therefore and be CONVERTED, that your sins may be BLOTTED OUT (taken away, wiped away), so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. Here Peter did not mention baptism before one's sins are wiped away or before one is saved.

So I will not say that Peter was wrong b/c only Peter understood the words he tried to use to persuade the people. . When we read it literally, it won't give us proper understanding and as such contradicts other scriptural passages. This is why we balance it with other passages in the Scriptures. No two scriptures contradict themselves. Rather all scriptures explain one another. Any misinterpretation is from the inability of humans to strike a balance b/w one passage and another.

hahn:


But I'm only a man. Why compare me to an all knowing, all seeing, creator of the universe? If I'm unable to explain my word to my son in a way that he would be able to totally understand what I mean then I'm also responsible for his mis understanding.

If you have to use me, a mere creature, as an example to justify the creator's (in)actions then it only points out that the concept of the creator in the first place is a birthchild of the created(supposedly)

italo:


What if you're able to explain in a way that he would totally understand but he chooses not to listen or understand?

You'd be an incompetent father?

italo: