MikeCZAR:
Why did you quote?

Like dude what does this have to do with my post?

SA troops in Sudan are under the UN. If you attack them you attack the UN and AU.

EVarn:
UN and AU wouldnt dare launch a 'law-enforcement' military intervention in Sudan for fear of provoking the combine military might of the Arab league of nations.lol,AU does not even have a continental military force!
If SA had arrested Bashir....well,lets just say that your troops in sudan would have been massacred and hung on the streets of khartoum to dry,and there would have been nothing anybody could do about it,not even the UNSC.

EVarn:
UN and AU wouldnt dare launch a 'law-enforcement' military intervention in Sudan for fear of provoking the combine military might of the Arab league of nations.lol,AU does not even have a continental military force!
If SA had arrested Bashir....well,lets just say that your troops in sudan would have been massacred and hung on the streets of khartoum to dry,and there would have been nothing anybody could do about it,not even the UNSC.

Patchesagain:

*rolls eyes*
You have the geopolitical insight of a rotten cassava

Henry120:
[s]Uselessness of the SANDF, series continues.



[b]The South African National Defence Union (Sandu) says it is demoralising for soldiers to serve in the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) when senior officials are getting away with corruption and incompetence and are receiving political protection and appointments.

Pikkie Greeff, Sandu National Secretary, made the comments at a recent Transparency International Defence Anti-Corruption in South Africa Civil Society Workshop in Johannesburg.

Greeff gave several examples of corruption in the SANDF, such as a commander in Polokwane being moved from one post to another due to procurement irregularities at the base involving things like rations, where he would use his friends to buy items like milk at prices inflated by 50%. Instead of this person being prosecuted in a military court he was simply moved to another position due to political cover, Greeff said.

In another instance, Greeff said it was alleged that a military official in Port Elizabeth was calling up reserve members for a fee and an officer commanding a base in the North West province was placed under suspension after allegations of fraud and tender rigging because he himself pointed out procurement regularities in the South African Army.

Greeff said that an Air Force general has been suspended with full pay for nine years because of sexual misconduct allegations after criticising the 1998 arms deal. He said the general has exceptional expertise regarding avionics but is sitting at home not being utilised due to ulterior motives.

Other examples of corruption in the SANDF pointed out by Greeff include the South African Air Force leasing aircraft from a husband and wife owned company that did not own any aircraft, resulting in troops being stranded when there were problems with the aircraft chartered by these middlemen; and the awarding of contracts that do not go out to tender because they are under a certain amount.

Greeff said that not all corruption was financial – a lot of it was political, with officials being protected due to their political connections, and appointments being made based on political grounds and not merit. For example, a senior warrant officer who was on the receiving end of a rant which included shouting and spitting by the current Director: Force Preparation of the SA Army, Brigadier General Nontobeka Mpaxa, was recently awarded damages of R330 000 by court but has not been disciplined for misconduct. Greeff alleges the same general was caught for drunken driving in Kimberly but the docket disappeared from the court.

Another example of what Greeff calls high ranking cover due to previous political connections involves the crash of a C-47 Dakota in the Drakensberg in late 2012. He said the preliminary accident report shows that the pilots were forced to fly in poor weather even after they protested against it and that the officials who ordered the flight were not court martialled as they should have been.

A similar scenario occurred after the Battle of Bangui in the Central African Republic (CAR) when officials responsible for intelligence failures and leaders on the ground who ran away from the fight were not prosecuted.

The Guptagate saga was another example highlighted by Sandu, where blame was shifted to two middle ranking officers who were suspended and found guilty but had charges dropped “in the face of overwhelming evidence that Bruce Koloane misled the entire military into allowing the [Gupta] plane to land. If an ordinary person misled an entire defence force…he would probably be trialled for treason. This person got promoted to an ambassador’s position. This sends a message to soldiers on the ground and to middle ranking officers as well. Why go to the trouble of exposing corruption if you can somehow benefit from it if you know the right people. That’s the spirit that has taken hold of the defence force,” Greeff said.

He pointed out that none of the above examples have resulted in prosecutions or convictions, something made worse by the fact that the military courts have come to a grinding halt over the last three month because someone failed to sign the appointment of judges to the bench. Greeff said that in 2014 the military courts were held up for a month because of the same issue.

The Sandu secretary said that no-one is willing to put their careers on the line by blowing the whistle or even disobey senseless or illegal orders. He said a huge part of the problem is that political influence has taken over in the defence force with decisions taken on the basis of former political affiliation and that people with higher political rank override those with higher military rank in the SANDF. “It is very demoralising for a solider to serve in a defence force where these things are going on,” he said.

Greeff was of the opinion that probably the only thing that will solve these issues is time as personnel keep moving through ranks and the SANDF has already seen a huge exodus of politically affiliated appointees due to age and attrition.[/b][/s]

Henry120:
Uselessness of the SANDF, series continues.



[b]The South African National Defence Union (Sandu) says it is demoralising for soldiers to serve in the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) when senior officials are getting away with corruption and incompetence and are receiving political protection and appointments.

Pikkie Greeff, Sandu National Secretary, made the comments at a recent Transparency International Defence Anti-Corruption in South Africa Civil Society Workshop in Johannesburg.

Greeff gave several examples of corruption in the SANDF, such as a commander in Polokwane being moved from one post to another due to procurement irregularities at the base involving things like rations, where he would use his friends to buy items like milk at prices inflated by 50%. Instead of this person being prosecuted in a military court he was simply moved to another position due to political cover, Greeff said.

In another instance, Greeff said it was alleged that a military official in Port Elizabeth was calling up reserve members for a fee and an officer commanding a base in the North West province was placed under suspension after allegations of fraud and tender rigging because he himself pointed out procurement regularities in the South African Army.

Greeff said that an Air Force general has been suspended with full pay for nine years because of sexual misconduct allegations after criticising the 1998 arms deal. He said the general has exceptional expertise regarding avionics but is sitting at home not being utilised due to ulterior motives.

Other examples of corruption in the SANDF pointed out by Greeff include the South African Air Force leasing aircraft from a husband and wife owned company that did not own any aircraft, resulting in troops being stranded when there were problems with the aircraft chartered by these middlemen; and the awarding of contracts that do not go out to tender because they are under a certain amount.

Greeff said that not all corruption was financial – a lot of it was political, with officials being protected due to their political connections, and appointments being made based on political grounds and not merit. For example, a senior warrant officer who was on the receiving end of a rant which included shouting and spitting by the current Director: Force Preparation of the SA Army, Brigadier General Nontobeka Mpaxa, was recently awarded damages of R330 000 by court but has not been disciplined for misconduct. Greeff alleges the same general was caught for drunken driving in Kimberly but the docket disappeared from the court.

Another example of what Greeff calls high ranking cover due to previous political connections involves the crash of a C-47 Dakota in the Drakensberg in late 2012. He said the preliminary accident report shows that the pilots were forced to fly in poor weather even after they protested against it and that the officials who ordered the flight were not court martialled as they should have been.

A similar scenario occurred after the Battle of Bangui in the Central African Republic (CAR) when officials responsible for intelligence failures and leaders on the ground who ran away from the fight were not prosecuted.

The Guptagate saga was another example highlighted by Sandu, where blame was shifted to two middle ranking officers who were suspended and found guilty but had charges dropped “in the face of overwhelming evidence that Bruce Koloane misled the entire military into allowing the [Gupta] plane to land. If an ordinary person misled an entire defence force…he would probably be trialled for treason. This person got promoted to an ambassador’s position. This sends a message to soldiers on the ground and to middle ranking officers as well. Why go to the trouble of exposing corruption if you can somehow benefit from it if you know the right people. That’s the spirit that has taken hold of the defence force,” Greeff said.

He pointed out that none of the above examples have resulted in prosecutions or convictions, something made worse by the fact that the military courts have come to a grinding halt over the last three month because someone failed to sign the appointment of judges to the bench. Greeff said that in 2014 the military courts were held up for a month because of the same issue.

The Sandu secretary said that no-one is willing to put their careers on the line by blowing the whistle or even disobey senseless or illegal orders. He said a huge part of the problem is that political influence has taken over in the defence force with decisions taken on the basis of former political affiliation and that people with higher political rank override those with higher military rank in the SANDF. “It is very demoralising for a solider to serve in a defence force where these things are going on,” he said.

Greeff was of the opinion that probably the only thing that will solve these issues is time as personnel keep moving through ranks and the SANDF has already seen a huge exodus of politically affiliated appointees due to age and attrition.[/b]

Henry120:
Uselessness of the SANDF, series continues.



[b]The South African National Defence Union (Sandu) says it is demoralising for soldiers to serve in the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) when senior officials are getting away with corruption and incompetence and are receiving political protection and appointments.

Pikkie Greeff, Sandu National Secretary, made the comments at a recent Transparency International Defence Anti-Corruption in South Africa Civil Society Workshop in Johannesburg.

Greeff gave several examples of corruption in the SANDF, such as a commander in Polokwane being moved from one post to another due to procurement irregularities at the base involving things like rations, where he would use his friends to buy items like milk at prices inflated by 50%. Instead of this person being prosecuted in a military court he was simply moved to another position due to political cover, Greeff said.

In another instance, Greeff said it was alleged that a military official in Port Elizabeth was calling up reserve members for a fee and an officer commanding a base in the North West province was placed under suspension after allegations of fraud and tender rigging because he himself pointed out procurement regularities in the South African Army.

Greeff said that an Air Force general has been suspended with full pay for nine years because of sexual misconduct allegations after criticising the 1998 arms deal. He said the general has exceptional expertise regarding avionics but is sitting at home not being utilised due to ulterior motives.

Other examples of corruption in the SANDF pointed out by Greeff include the South African Air Force leasing aircraft from a husband and wife owned company that did not own any aircraft, resulting in troops being stranded when there were problems with the aircraft chartered by these middlemen; and the awarding of contracts that do not go out to tender because they are under a certain amount.

Greeff said that not all corruption was financial – a lot of it was political, with officials being protected due to their political connections, and appointments being made based on political grounds and not merit. For example, a senior warrant officer who was on the receiving end of a rant which included shouting and spitting by the current Director: Force Preparation of the SA Army, Brigadier General Nontobeka Mpaxa, was recently awarded damages of R330 000 by court but has not been disciplined for misconduct. Greeff alleges the same general was caught for drunken driving in Kimberly but the docket disappeared from the court.

Another example of what Greeff calls high ranking cover due to previous political connections involves the crash of a C-47 Dakota in the Drakensberg in late 2012. He said the preliminary accident report shows that the pilots were forced to fly in poor weather even after they protested against it and that the officials who ordered the flight were not court martialled as they should have been.

A similar scenario occurred after the Battle of Bangui in the Central African Republic (CAR) when officials responsible for intelligence failures and leaders on the ground who ran away from the fight were not prosecuted.

The Guptagate saga was another example highlighted by Sandu, where blame was shifted to two middle ranking officers who were suspended and found guilty but had charges dropped “in the face of overwhelming evidence that Bruce Koloane misled the entire military into allowing the [Gupta] plane to land. If an ordinary person misled an entire defence force…he would probably be trialled for treason. This person got promoted to an ambassador’s position. This sends a message to soldiers on the ground and to middle ranking officers as well. Why go to the trouble of exposing corruption if you can somehow benefit from it if you know the right people. That’s the spirit that has taken hold of the defence force,” Greeff said.

He pointed out that none of the above examples have resulted in prosecutions or convictions, something made worse by the fact that the military courts have come to a grinding halt over the last three month because someone failed to sign the appointment of judges to the bench. Greeff said that in 2014 the military courts were held up for a month because of the same issue.

The Sandu secretary said that no-one is willing to put their careers on the line by blowing the whistle or even disobey senseless or illegal orders. He said a huge part of the problem is that political influence has taken over in the defence force with decisions taken on the basis of former political affiliation and that people with higher political rank override those with higher military rank in the SANDF.

Greeff was of the opinion that probably the only thing that will solve these issues is time as personnel keep moving through ranks and the SANDF has already seen a huge exodus of politically affiliated appointees due to age and attrition.[/b]

DictatorZAR:

---

All this bullsh@it yet independent auditors gave SANDF a clean bill of health.

Patchesagain:


In transport NAF is ahead?

SAAF: 9 C130's (5 operational at ant one time)
NAF: 3 C-130's

Surveilance?

Uhhh... Gripen, Hawk and Cessna

Agains... 2 ATR's?

Combat experience:

SAAF - has operated in a contested airspace, has fought against enemy aircraft
NAF - has done no such thing

Operational use: - define what the hell you are talking about here.

If you think the difference between a 4th gen and a 3rd gen is in BVR then you are an utter buffoon.

NAF has never been, nor ever will be, on the same level as the SAAF.

Simple fact.

Henry120:
Uselessness of the SANDF, series continues.



[b]The South African National Defence Union (Sandu) says it is demoralising for soldiers to serve in the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) when senior officials are getting away with corruption and incompetence and are receiving political protection and appointments.

Pikkie Greeff, Sandu National Secretary, made the comments at a recent Transparency International Defence Anti-Corruption in South Africa Civil Society Workshop in Johannesburg.

Greeff gave several examples of corruption in the SANDF, such as a commander in Polokwane being moved from one post to another due to procurement irregularities at the base involving things like rations, where he would use his friends to buy items like milk at prices inflated by 50%. Instead of this person being prosecuted in a military court he was simply moved to another position due to political cover, Greeff said.

In another instance, Greeff said it was alleged that a military official in Port Elizabeth was calling up reserve members for a fee and an officer commanding a base in the North West province was placed under suspension after allegations of fraud and tender rigging because he himself pointed out procurement regularities in the South African Army.

Greeff said that an Air Force general has been suspended with full pay for nine years because of sexual misconduct allegations after criticising the 1998 arms deal. He said the general has exceptional expertise regarding avionics but is sitting at home not being utilised due to ulterior motives.

Other examples of corruption in the SANDF pointed out by Greeff include the South African Air Force leasing aircraft from a husband and wife owned company that did not own any aircraft, resulting in troops being stranded when there were problems with the aircraft chartered by these middlemen; and the awarding of contracts that do not go out to tender because they are under a certain amount.

Greeff said that not all corruption was financial – a lot of it was political, with officials being protected due to their political connections, and appointments being made based on political grounds and not merit. For example, a senior warrant officer who was on the receiving end of a rant which included shouting and spitting by the current Director: Force Preparation of the SA Army, Brigadier General Nontobeka Mpaxa, was recently awarded damages of R330 000 by court but has not been disciplined for misconduct. Greeff alleges the same general was caught for drunken driving in Kimberly but the docket disappeared from the court.

Another example of what Greeff calls high ranking cover due to previous political connections involves the crash of a C-47 Dakota in the Drakensberg in late 2012. He said the preliminary accident report shows that the pilots were forced to fly in poor weather even after they protested against it and that the officials who ordered the flight were not court martialled as they should have been.

A similar scenario occurred after the Battle of Bangui in the Central African Republic (CAR) when officials responsible for intelligence failures and leaders on the ground who ran away from the fight were not prosecuted.

The Guptagate saga was another example highlighted by Sandu, where blame was shifted to two middle ranking officers who were suspended and found guilty but had charges dropped “in the face of overwhelming evidence that Bruce Koloane misled the entire military into allowing the [Gupta] plane to land. If an ordinary person misled an entire defence force…he would probably be trialled for treason. This person got promoted to an ambassador’s position. This sends a message to soldiers on the ground and to middle ranking officers as well. Why go to the trouble of exposing corruption if you can somehow benefit from it if you know the right people. That’s the spirit that has taken hold of the defence force,” Greeff said.

He pointed out that none of the above examples have resulted in prosecutions or convictions, something made worse by the fact that the military courts have come to a grinding halt over the last three month because someone failed to sign the appointment of judges to the bench. Greeff said that in 2014 the military courts were held up for a month because of the same issue.

The Sandu secretary said that no-one is willing to put their careers on the line by blowing the whistle or even disobey senseless or illegal orders. He said a huge part of the problem is that political influence has taken over in the defence force with decisions taken on the basis of former political affiliation and that people with higher political rank override those with higher military rank in the SANDF. “It is very demoralising for a solider to serve in a defence force where these things are going on,” he said.

Greeff was of the opinion that probably the only thing that will solve these issues is time as personnel keep moving through ranks and the SANDF has already seen a huge exodus of politically affiliated appointees due to age and attrition.[/b]

Henry120:



[s]You've gone senile.

Transport NAF : 5 operational C-130's of a fleet of 8.

NAF also fields 6 operational G-222 and 2 Boeing 737 Transport planes.


Surveillance NAF operates

ATR-42s = 2
Beechcraft = 3
CH-3A. = 9
Diamond Surveillance planes
Gulma Drones


SAAF has limited combat experience, with it's only engagement been a joint operation with Ukrainian legacy hinds against poorly armed rebels.

The Apartheid military is not the SANDF.

You are naive, I picked out the specification I needed to make my comparison.

Operational, the NAF has and continues to log more hours than the SAAF.


The South-African Air Force is a joke, and no where near the achievements of the mighty NAF.[/s]

Henry120:


SAAF has limited combat experience, with it's only engagement been a joint operation with Ukrainian legacy hinds against poorly armed rebels.

Patchesagain:


Feel free to provide evidence that you have more than 3 F-7 pilots

agaugust:


Feel free to provide clear evidence that NAF has ever had shortage of F-7 pilots.....you made the allegation first, so prove it first
.

Patchesagain:


Poor maintenance is a theme in the Nigerian airforce

If it affects the rest of your fleet, it will be affecting the F-7's

Patchesagain:

You cant even find enough pilots for your F-7's!!

Patchesagain:


Last I checked, I was the one who backed up my claims with a citation.

Patchesagain:


If you are accusing me of fraud

Post ATR radar model and range specifications

Patchesagain:


Experience doesnt mean sh1t when you are trying to compare to more advanced and better trained airforces.

agaugust:


Post citation to prove it affects F-7 jet, direct and specific citation.

F-7 jet maintenance technology has been transferred to NAF by PAF and we train together for air to air combat drills.

NAF F-7 jet arrived a year after your source, so show us source to prove that your old story also extends to new aircraft that was not in service at the time of writing the report, show us proof, your personal opinion is useless on nairaland, I cannot quote your bedroom ideas in a project or academic thesis.

Provide a clear source to prove your fairy tale
.

agaugust:


Citation needed now!

Patchesagain:


Beechcraft are VIP transports

agaugust:


You used ATR-72 citation to back up ATR-42 radar claims, you think we are fools here?

Is F-15 jet = F-35 jet ?

Thief, Fraud
.

agaugust:


Say please Baaas
.

agaugust:


NAF has both training and war experience. SAAF has only basic training but then lack flight hours of qualification for combat
.

Patchesagain:


Nigeria has only 3 operational C-130's - proven with citations

Citation needed for 6 operational G-222's

Beechcraft are VIP transports
SANDF has drones as well

SAAF flew 18 000 hours last year - citation please for hours flown by NAF

And, FYI, operational experience is irrelevant if you train properly

And, FYI, SAAF has fought a conventional war in the air and shot down enemy fighters - NAF has never done this (So who has more experience?)

Dude, your airforce is a joke that is befitting of your nations status as a nearly-failed state

Henry120:

[s]
NAF has 5 C-130s operational. Photos have been posted multiple times here.

All NAF's G-222 are operational.

Beechcraft for light transport are different from beechcraft used for surveillance. Again this has been proven multiple times.


NAF also has Cessna ISR air-crafts.

SAAF flew 18000 hours with virtually all of those been flown by VIP.


NAF has flown over 7000 sorties in the last 8 months.


The SAAF has virtually no combat experience. P.W botha's Apartheid army is not the SANDF. This is not the SANDF.



The SANDF is a classical joke, filled with inept, incompetent, poorly trained and poorly resourced men.


A befitting military well suited for a 3rd world Country like South-Africa.[/s]

Patchesagain:


ORLY?

"The NAF has limited combat experience, its only engagements being against poorly armed rebels"

In reality, the SAAF has engaged enemy fighter jets and advanced enemy SAM systems - and you have not.