Barnabaseloka:

Sorry, he did not put it or inferred it that in baptism anyone will receive salvation. Baptism is a 'symbol' of one dying and being raised with Christ. The actual event of salvation occurs spiritually before one is baptized physically. When one goes to the water to be baptized, he is not going there to be saved, but to demostrate symbolically or physically his fellowship in the death and raising of Christ.

read it again

he say we were baptised into Christ an thus baptised into his death and resurrection and into a new life.

There is nothing like "symbol" there unless you have manufactured you own bible.

All my own are discussing realities like been partakers in Christ death and resurrection in baptism. It didn't say "you died in Christ before you were baptised" or "baptism is a symbol of your dying in Christ"
this is what it says

You cannot have forgotten that all of us WHEN WE WERE BAPTISED INTO Christ were baptised into his death" I agree with Paul, when I was baptised into Christ I was baptised into his death. I died with him when I was baptised in him, not before.

I chose what scripture says above
Calvin.

Syncan:




Hahahaha you are indeed trying. Listen to Peter's account on Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
As he began to speak....he had barely started speaking when this took place, They were just even starting to hear the word not to talk of believing in it, as a matter of fact Peter made the clear differentiation in vs 17.
Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

So was it that Peter could not withstand God about? Have acts 10:47 in mind.

This was all Peter had said :

Acts 10:34-43
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all) 37 that word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judæa, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; [/b]41 not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 [b]To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

This much they heard and it led them to true faith which God saw and blessed them!

Barnabaseloka:

I don't know who Calvin was and I do not wish to know. Everyone with an open heart will easily understand what I have written concerning being 'born again'. All Christians believe that being born again preceeds water baptism, except you and few others who are yet to come to terms with this truth.

Water baptism does not save a sinner, but only the word of God and the Holy Spiriit. Water baptism is a 'physical' replica of what has 'spiritually' happened to anyone who is born again. It conotes how one has died with Christ (dipping in water) and the way one has risen with Christ (raised from the water) unto newness of life. Water baptism uses physical illustration to explain to one who is born again what really happened to such life spiritually. The 'spiritual' (being born again) MUST take palce before the 'physical' (water baptism).

oh, Calvin is the guy who originated the doctrine of once saved always saved he also originated the doctrine of born again before baptism. He was the creator of reformed theology and the father of the reformed churches. He was the first person to teach what you are teaching today, you can read up on him. The doctrin you teach is a relative new doctrine in Christendom merely 400yrs old. Calvin is the fount of the doctrine you have been trying to explain.

Baptism is not a replica of what had already happened, instead in baptism were were joined to Christ and became sharers of his death, it isn't some mere symbol, if it were Paul wouldn't have taught that when we were baptised we were baptised into Christs death. It isn't some symbol of a past event, it isn't a remembrance, it is a present reality whereby God unites us to the death of Christ and grants us new life.

Syncan:



My question was if they were born again, why were they not with the Holy Spirit? See what you said below:

There is a difference b/w the Holy Spirit coming into one's life as a result of being born again, and one being FILLED with the Holy Spirit (baptism of the Holy Spirit). When one is born again, God sends the Holy Spirit into the life of the person. Nevertheless one needs to be filled with the Holy Spirit so that he can work for God and walk with God effectively. Already anyone who believed had the Holy Spirit in him, but the apostles laid hands on believers so that they would be filled with the Holy Spirit. One of the evidence of this is speaking in toungues.

Ubenedictus:


sorry you are again reading into that passage insead of read out of it.

Annanias said he came to for the restoration of Paul sight and so he may be filled with the spirit, no where does that passage say he was filled with the holyspirit before he was baptised.

Instead the teaching the bible gives is "believe and be baptised...so you may receive the holyspirit the promised of God".

What of those who believed, received the Holy Spirit and were baptized?
From the words of Ananias, it is clearly seen that Paul, received his sight, was filled with the Holy Spirit and became baptized.
Cornelius and his household believed and received the Holy Spirit, before baptism.

Ubenedictus:


read it again

he say we were baptised into Christ an thus baptised into his death and resurrection and into a new life.

There is nothing like "symbol" there unless you have manufactured you own bible.

All my own are discussing realities like been partakers in Christ death and resurrection in baptism. It didn't say "you died in Christ before you were baptised" or "baptism is a symbol of your dying in Christ"
this is what it says

You cannot have forgotten that all of us WHEN WE WERE BAPTISED INTO Christ were baptised into his death" I agree with Paul, when I was baptised into Christ I was baptised into his death. I died with him when I was baptised in him, not before.

I chose what scripture says above
Calvin.

I do not doubt the truth that one has died and risen with Christ during baptism. But what saves one is the believing on the name Jesus.

Ubenedictus:


oh, Calvin is the guy who originated the doctrine of once saved always saved he also originated the doctrine of born again before baptism. He was the creator of reformed theology and the father of the reformed churches. He was the first person to teach what you are teaching today, you can read up on him. The doctrin you teach is a relative new doctrine in Christendom merely 400yrs old. Calvin is the fount of the doctrine you have been trying to explain.

Baptism is not a replica of what had already happened, instead in baptism were were joined to Christ and became sharers of his death, it isn't some mere symbol, if it were Paul wouldn't have taught that when we were baptised we were baptised into Christs death. It isn't some symbol of a past event, it isn't a remembrance, it is a present reality whereby God unites us to the death of Christ and grants us new life.

I have told you that I do not wish to know who Calvin was? I believe the word of God and not him. I accept aanything he had said that goes in line with the word of God.
Newness of life comes at the point of being born again not during baptism. 2 Corinth. 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation, old things have passed away; behold all things have become new.

this topic shd not attract much controversy,it a simple issue.
Jesus did not baptize anyone with water.the Apostles did i dont know why they did so?.
The physical water does not cleanse the heart,Notice the cases in the book of acts where the Apostles baptised people.
firstly ,they preached Christ to the People and then went ahead to baptise them with water.


study the following scriptures,
acts8:
philip preached christ to them,the Apostles(Peter and John),laid hands on them that they might receieve the Holy Ghost,i think later in that chapter,it was recorded that they were baptised,I am not too sure.
somebody help check acts8 to verify.

when Jesus was baptized by John,its a only a symbol of what was to come.which is that Jesus was going to be identified with Man as a sinner(2cor5:21).
As we all know,John the baptist baptised the Sinners and Jesus was NOT a sinner.
Jesus' baptism was only a symbol that he was going to become a sinner so that we maybe made righteous(see 2cor5:21)

Ezekiel 26:24-26:-
the water spoken about here is "figurative",it is not talking about Physical water.
1cor6:11:- notice the word "washed" then relate this scripture to Acts 22:16.

Then finally compare everything to John15:3.
You will see that, it is his Word that cleanses us.

Then all the dots will connect.
what really matters is to be washed and sanctified by the Blood of Jesus which occurs at the new birth(salvation).

I could have expantiated a lot futher but i dont have my bible here,My laptop is at home,and i use a Nokia E5 to type here.No bible for my phone.Make una no vex.

where was it recorded that the Apostles themselves were baptized?

this topic shd not attract much controversy,it a simple issue.
Jesus did not baptize anyone with water.the Apostles did i dont know why they did so?.
The physical water does not cleanse the heart,Notice the cases in the book of acts where the Apostles baptised people.
firstly ,they preached Christ to the People and then went ahead to baptise them with water.


study the following scriptures,
acts8:
philip preached christ to them,the Apostles(Peter and John),laid hands on them that they might receieve the Holy Ghost,i think later in that chapter,it was recorded that they were baptised,I am not too sure.
somebody help check acts8 to verify.

when Jesus was baptized by John,its a only a symbol of what was to come.which is that Jesus was going to be identified with Man as a sinner(2cor5:21).
As we all know,John the baptist baptised the Sinners and Jesus was NOT a sinner.
Jesus' baptism was only a symbol that he was going to become a sinner so that we maybe made righteous(see 2cor5:21)

Ezekiel 26:24-26:-
the water spoken about here is "figurative",it is not talking about Physical water.
1cor6:11:- notice the word "washed" then relate this scripture to Acts 22:16.

Then finally compare everything to John15:3.
You will see that, it is his Word that cleanses us.

Then all the dots will connect.
what really matters is to be washed and sanctified by the Blood of Jesus which occurs at the new birth(salvation).

I could have expantiated a lot futher but i dont have my bible here,My laptop is at home,and i use a Nokia E5 to type here.No bible for my phone.Make una no vex.

Its a small discussion and simple topic.

Barnabaseloka:

Up till now, you are still hardened in your heart.
Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house, and laying his hands on him said 'Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and, be FILLED with the Holy Spirit.
18. Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was BAPTIZED.

Ananias did not need preaching to Paul again about salvation b/c Jesus had already met him on his way to Damascus. In Vs. 11, Paul was already praying, which I believe was that of repentance and believing in Jesus. This was manifest when Ananias called him 'Brother Saul'. It clearly showed that Paul had repented and believed. The only work Ananias did there was to pray for Paul to see again and to baptize him. Note also that Paul received his sight, was first filled with the Holy Spirit before he became baptized (Vs.17).

In summary, Paul repented, believed in Jesus, was filled with the Holy Spirit and was baptized. Only those who have been saved will be filled with the Holy Spirit and be baptized with water or vice versa.

From what you're saying, St. Paul was saved - (repented, believed, was filled with the Holy Spirit) yet his sins were not washed away...

...Until he was baptized.

Acts22:16 "Get up, be baptized, and have your sins washed away, calling on his name."

italo:


From what you're saying, St. Paul was saved - (repented, believed, was filled with the Holy Spirit) yet his sins were not washed away...

...Until he was baptized.

Acts22:16 "Get up, be baptized, and have your sins washed away, calling on his name."

is it water that washes away sin Or Jesus' blood?
read 1cor6;11.
that why i told u to compare scriptures
ezekiel36:23-25,
acts22:16,
1cor6:11.

@scholar8200,

Me

At what point was Paul saved?

At what point were his sins washed away?

Cc scholar8200

You

At the point he met/encountered the Lord and surrendered to His Lordship! Note that unlike Cornelius,he was not asked to call for one to preach the Gospel to him. Why? He encountered He Who is the Gospel!

Seeing that Paul was only baptized and had his sins washed away Acts22:16, when Ananias got to him, are you saying a person can be saved, and remain with his previous sins?

italo:
@scholar8200,

Me

You


Seeing that Paul was only baptized and had his sins washed away Acts22:16, when Ananias got to him, are you saying a person can be saved, and remain with his previous sins?

John 15:3 answers it all

Ubenedictus:
another thing that pains me is when a Christian decides to play ping pong with scriptures.

This is what my bible says.

From vs 20b

in the days of Noah during the building of the ark in which a few persons, eight in all were saved through water. This prefigured baptism which saves you now

that passage says the waters in noahs time prefigures, foreshadowed, is an antitype of baptism which now saves me.

It didn't say baptism is a mere picture or a figure, it instead said the waters of Noahs day is a figure of baptism which today saves us.

You should go back and study the passage and maybe learn a little english.

Stick to the subject and stop hinting others to learn English bro
Personally, I recommend you go over 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 to get some old school grounding on and about baptism

Ubenedictus:
no! You didn't shout "stop it". You just called a new testament practice obsolate. And you remember Paul says what is old and obsolate is to pass away? When you start calling new testament practices obsolate then you are alledging the new covenant has failed, is obsolate and passing away.

For you its no big deal right?

Obsolete is not a stigma. Thought I have already responded to this before now

Ubenedictus:
hahaha,

you should read your bible more often, unless ofcourse you believe the bible writters were mistaken.

Jn 3:22

After this, Jesus and his disciples went into the region of Judea, where he spent some time with them baptising

Confirms what Barnabaseloka said about you that you hastily respond to post without thoroughly reading them and thats if you do at all read them in the first place

Barnabaseloka said he has told you that you read people's posts in a hurry to find errors, without understanding them.

You and italo not only read people's posts in a hurry to find errors, you read without understanding them
and also miss vital or important facts or truths in the post as you blitz read it

I was ahead of you this morning when at 8:05am when replying italo I posted:
"Jesus DID NOT PERSONALLY water baptise anyone.
His disciples did the water baptism, not Jesus"
i.e. https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/8#35090998

Four days ago, prior to the above, I also had extensively on the same subject matter, replied italo with the below posting:

"They were initially instructed to baptise with water just as John the Baptist was doing in"

I also reproduced John 3:22-31 and John 4:1-2 giving you a backdrop and finalising it with the verse saying:
... Jesus himself didn’t baptize them—his disciples did
i.e. https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/6#34970795

PS: If you havent yet, pick up Chess, you'll learn about vigilance, pick up preemptive, patience, alertness & watchfulness skills etc

italo:
No. Here is a fuller context:

1Peter3:20 those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat.
Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. 21And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Which water is a picture? - The flood.

Picture of what, what is the real deal? - Baptism.

What does baptism do now? - It now saves v21 (as Noah was saved through water v20)

I am sorry brother, if you sincerely and genuinely do not understand what Peter was saying there

Let me ask you a question though, this question applies also to Syncan and possibly Ubenedictus too
Dont worry, its not a trick question, its just a question, answers are for my benefit, are for estimating or gauging sake.
Whose baptism, do you prefer? The baptism of John or the baptism of Jesus Christ?

Please carefully read and try to understand 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 before answering. No hasty reply.

1 Corinthians 10:1-2
¹For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters,
that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
²They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

italo:
But Jesus commanded them to baptize with water in Matt 28:19 (or can a man baptize another man with the Holy Spirit?)and didn't anywhere correct that teaching...and they obeyed. You know better than Jesus and his apostles.

You definitely must have earlier read me, post that Jesus sure did instruct them albeit this instruction was before he died and resurrected, in other this was before Jesus was glorified

sportsmaster:
You're welcome bro.
Those are just bulletins,there is not enough space to fully capture all the words,
A bulletin must not be too voluminous,People will not read.

You can search the websites for teachings.
You can also visit the E-books section.
There are short e-books on subjects like

1Tongues
2Concerning tithes,offerings and giving
3Righteousness
4what every believer Must know
And many other materials.
Audio teachings are available too.
Locate any subject of you wish to study
And i Assure you that You will be blessed by those teachings.
God bless you.

I read my Pastor, once saying that there is so much more He wants to tell, but we can’t bear it then.
but when the Spirit of truth comes, the Spirit of truth will guide into all truth. The Spirit of truth will not speak on his own but will tell what he has heard. He will tell about the future.

Before the above, my Pastor also said, the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in His name, will teach all things and remind of everything that my Pastor had told.

So thanks for the offer, but I rely on what my Pastor subscribed me, and so it's only if guided to that website, that it will be so,
as my feeding & reliance is solely 100% down to what my Pastor has arranged and prepared for me

Having said the above, please facilitate how I can get my hands on:
Concerning Tithes, Giving & Offering by Chris Segun Onayinka

As I am getting the below display message. Why was that article pulled off the site?
"The requested file was not found
Error: The requested address '/articles/download/50' was not found on this server.

MuttleyLaff:
I read my Pastor, once saying that there is so much more He wants to tell, but we can’t bear it then.
but when the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell what he has heard.
He will tell about the future.

Before the above, my Pastor the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in His name, will teach all things and remind of everything that my Pastor had told.

I rely on what my Pastor subscribed me, and so if guided by him to that website so be it,
my feeding & reliance however 100% is down to what my Pastor has arranged and prepared for me

Having said the above, please facilitate how I can get my hands on:
Concerning Tithes, Giving & Offering by Chris Segun Onayinka

As I am getting the below display message. Why was that article pulled off the site?
"The requested file was not found
Error: The requested address '/articles/download/50' was not found on this server.

that website belongs to the church,sermons,bulletins,materials are recorded and uploaded on that website incase you want to listen to it and study along.

Eph4:8-13
...someone quoted "when the spirit of truth is come,he will teach you all things," the person took it out of context thereby failing the inpretation.
But Jesus gave gifts to men.
See Eph4:8-13.
If the Holy Spirit is to teach us all things like Jesus said,then why did Jesus Give Ministry Gifts(Eph4:8-11).
The problem is that most of us takes scriptures out of context.

Refer to 1tim5:17
A pastor(elder) must be one labours in word and doctrine.
If a pastor is not teaching "sound doctrine" then he is not doing his Job
My pastors ensures that we have a clearer understanding of the Word and we must also be able to teach others.which is why I am able to come here in boldness and teach/correct/instrucy Others in the word.
Acts20:
a pastor must feed the flock.

And as Members we spend quality to Study,there are study Groups in the church,90% of the whole church belongs to a study group.
spend time to pray for revelation knowledge
Eph1:16-19,Eph3:14-21.Col1:9-11.Philipians1:9-11,Philemon1:6.

That why i'm NL religion section today and I'm able to explain few bible subjects to others,still learning though,there is a lot to learn.

Can I send it via email,?

italo:


From what you're saying, St. Paul was saved - (repented, believed, was filled with the Holy Spirit) yet his sins were not washed away...

...Until he was baptized.

Acts22:16 "Get up, be baptized, and have your sins washed away, calling on his name."

Final advice to you as a friend:
Ask God to give you the spirit of knowledge and understanding to see beyond the words used in the Scriptures This helps you to compare scripture with scripture to get balanced understanding of a matter. The way you interprete the scripture here shows your level of understanding. You are in dire need of the Holy Spirit and not human reasoning. I am still a student under the Holy Spirit, but with a more open heart than yours to understand and learn from others. Have a nice day!

sportsmaster:
that website belongs to the church,sermons,bulletins,materials are recorded and uploaded on that website incase you want to listen to it and study along.

I know

sportsmaster:
Eph4:8-13

...someone quoted "when the spirit of truth is come,he will teach you all things," the person took it out of context thereby failing the inpretation.
But Jesus gave gifts to men.
See Eph4:8-13.
If the Holy Spirit is to teach us all things like Jesus said,then why did Jesus Give Ministry Gifts(Eph4:8-11).
The problem is that most of us takes scriptures out of context.

Dont get ahead of yourself.
If my Pastor says the Spirit of Truth WILL TEACH ALL TRUTH, that settles it, it is OK and enough for me

sportsmaster:
Refer to 1tim5:17
A pastor(elder) must be one labours in word and doctrine.
If a pastor is not teaching "sound doctrine" then he is not doing his Job
My pastors ensures that we have a clearer understanding of the Word and we must also be able to teach others.which is why I am able to come here in boldness and teach/correct/instrucy Others in the word.
Acts20:
a pastor must feed the flock.
And as Members we spend quality to Study,there are study Groups in the church,90% of the whole church belongs to a study group.
spend time to pray for revelation knowledge
Eph1:16-19,Eph3:14-21.Col1:9-11.Philipians1:9-11,Philemon1:6.
That why i'm NL religion section today and I'm able to explain few bible subjects to others,still learning though,there is a lot to learn

I am amused with the way and manner youre twisting and turning doing gymnastics with "elders shepherding the flock of the Shepherd" there.
Do you know at all, as in for real, what "pastor" is?
Do you know if all pastor (i.e. mind you, pastor in singular and not plural) is mentioned in the New Testament?

sportsmaster:
Can I send it via email,?

Yes you can. PM me via Nairaland please, so we can take it from there. Thanks.

MuttleyLaff:
I am sorry brother, if you sincerely and genuinely do not understand what Peter was saying there

Lol...what is difficult to understand in:

1Peter3:20 those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat.
Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. 21And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Which water is Peter referring to as "that water?"

MuttleyLaff:


Let me ask you a question though, this question applies also to Syncan and possibly Ubenedictus too
Dont worry, its not a trick question, its just a question, answers are for my benefit, are for estimating or gauging sake.
Whose baptism, do you prefer? The baptism of John or the baptism of Jesus Christ?

Please carefully read and try to understand 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 before answering. No hasty reply.

1 Corinthians 10:1-2
¹For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters,
that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
²They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

There is only one baptism for Christians, that of Jesus Christ.

MuttleyLaff:


You sure must have earlier read me, post that Jesus sure did instruct them albeit this instructed was before he died and resurrected, in other this was before Jesus was glorified

What does it matter whether Jesus had died or not died? Almost all Jesus' recorded teachings were done before he died.

Jesus instructed his apostles to baptize with water and they kept doing it.

But you who knows more than Jesus and his apostles have come to teach that it is not useful.

italo:
Lol...what is difficult to understand in:

1Peter3:20 those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat.
Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood.
21And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Which water is Peter referring to as "that water?"

Read it now, sebi its there in B&W, try reading it slowly but loudly
You obviously didnt read 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 and if you did, you didnt properly read it and so didnt take or couldnt gnaw the meat in it.

italo:
There is only one baptism for Christians, that of Jesus Christ.

... and that only one baptism for Christians, is Jesus' baptism with water. Right? (i.e. as far as you are concerned, that is the case, isnt that so?)
One day, one day, we'll get there...

italo:
What does it matter whether Jesus had died or not died? Almost all Jesus' recorded teachings were done before he died.

Jesus instructed his apostles to baptize with water and they kept doing it.

But you who knows more than Jesus and his apostles have come to teach that it is not useful.

Are you tired already of your superlatives, have you ran out of them
You thought I didnt notice or read your "...the eighth wonder of the world..." sarky

Barnabaseloka:

Final advice to you as a friend:
Ask God to give you the spirit of knowledge and understanding to see beyond the words used in the Scriptures This helps you to compare scripture with scripture to get balanced understanding of a matter. The way you interprete the scripture here shows your level of understanding. You are in dire need of the Holy Spirit and not human reasoning. I am still a student under the Holy Spirit, but with a more open heart than yours to understand and learn from others. Have a nice day!

Clap clap!

You said St. Paul was saved when he believed...

And the Bible tells us Ananias came to him days later...and had him baptized and washed his sins away Acts22:16.

So you're saying being saved doesn't wash away ones sins.

And it's amazing how you first want us to go by scripture alone, then when we bring scripture, you start contradicting scripture under so many guises (Remember you said Mary ceased being Jesus' mother when he started his ministry...and that Jesus time had come in John 2 - both contrary to scripture).
It's also amazing how you know that you have the Holy Spirit and I dont...or you have more of him than I do...and claiming you have an open heart and I dont...

Away with you and your 'spirit of knowledge and understanding' that makes you contradict the Bible.

Away with your heart that is only open to the heresy that was in it from the beginning.

MuttleyLaff:

I am amused with the way and manner youre twisting and turning doing gymnastics with "elders shepherding the flock of the Shepherd" there.
Do you know at all, as in for real, what "pastor" is?
Do you know if all pastor (i.e. mind you, pastor in singular and not plural) is mentioned in the New Testament?

Yes you can. PM me via Nairaland please, so we can take it from there. Thanks.

i can explain the concept of Ministry gifts of the new testament
1cor12:28,rom12:4,Eph4:11
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

MuttleyLaff:

I am amused with the way and manner youre twisting and turning doing gymnastics with "elders shepherding the flock of the Shepherd" there.
Do you know at all, as in for real, what "pastor" is?
Do you know if all pastor (i.e. mind you, pastor in singular and not plural) is mentioned in the New Testament?

Yes you can. PM me via Nairaland please, so we can take it from there. Thanks.

i can explain the concept of Ministry gifts of the new testament
1cor12:28,rom12:4,Eph4:11
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, [size=33pt]and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God[/size], which he hath purchased with his own blood.

MuttleyLaff:
Read it now, sebi its there in B&W, try reading it slowly but loudly
You obviously didnt read 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 and if you did, you didnt properly read it and so didnt take or couldnt gnaw the meat in it.

... and that only one baptism for Christians, is Jesus' baptism with water. Right? (i.e. as far as you are concerned, that is the case, isnt that so?)
One day, one day, we'll get there...

Are you tired already of your superlatives, have you ran out of them
You thought I didnt notice or read your "...the eighth wonder of the world..." sarky

^^^

Full of emptiness.

italo:
Clap clap!

You said St. Paul was saved when he believed...

And the Bible tells us Ananias came to him days later...and had him baptized and washed his sins away Acts22:16.

So you're saying being saved doesn't wash away ones sins.

And it's amazing how you first want us to go by scripture alone, then when we bring scripture, you start contradicting scripture under so many guises (Remember you said Mary ceased being Jesus' mother when he started his ministry...and that Jesus time had come in John 2 - both contrary to scripture).
It's also amazing how you know that you have the Holy Spirit and I dont...or you have more of him than I do...and claiming you have an open heart and I dont...

Away with you and your 'spirit of knowledge and understanding' that makes you contradict the Bible.

Away with your heart that is only open to the heresy that was in it from the beginning.

Let me explain the matter of
"how you know that you have the Holy Spirit and I dont...or you have more of him than I do" for you.

All of us are given the same measure of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is like a big or huge garment, which we have to wear and fill in
The Holy Spirit is loose and looks like a baggy cloth on some, whereas for some, it is tight fit pn them because they're nourished enough to put on weight or body mass to fill into the clothe

Dont take it personal or take offence, just munch, devour, eat and feast on the word, and soon you'll fill in and fill up the Holy Ghost garment

sportsmaster:
i can explain the concept of Ministry gifts of the new testament
1cor12:28,rom12:4,Eph4:11
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

What is the relevance of the above. What is your point. What point are you making with Acts 20:28?
I was in my last post going to ask you about Bezalel, Oholiab etc and the Spirit of God but just scratched the intention

Scholar8200:
This was all Peter had said :

Acts 10:34-43
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all) 37 that word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judæa, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; [/b]41 not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 [b]To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

This much they heard and it led them to true faith which God saw and blessed them!

This much was all that was recorded he told them in his visit. But verse 44 made it clear that he had hadly said these before the Holy Spirit fell on them
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And like I pointed out earlier, Peter confirmed this 10:44 when he spoke in 11:15-17. Peter was very clear with regards to when the Holy Spirit came on them " As I began to speak...". Again note that in verse 17 he differentiated them at this point, from "...us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ". And this was why peter decided immediately to baptize them without further talks. For God had Chosen them to be saved.

Barnabaseloka:

There is a difference b/w the Holy Spirit coming into one's life as a result of being born again, and one being FILLED with the Holy Spirit (baptism of the Holy Spirit). When one is born again, God sends the Holy Spirit into the life of the person. Nevertheless one needs to be filled with the Holy Spirit so that he can work for God and walk with God effectively. Already anyone who believed had the Holy Spirit in him, but the apostles laid hands on believers so that they would be filled with the Holy Spirit. One of the evidence of this is speaking in toungues.

Did you even read that passage? Acts19:2

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as
heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
He asked them if the received and not filled with the Holy Spirit when they believed. So I ask you again, if they were born again when they believed, how come they didn't receive the Holy Spirit?

MuttleyLaff:
What is the relevance of the above. What is your point. What point are you making with Acts 20:28?
I was in my last post going to ask you about Bezalel, Oholiab etc and the Spirit of God but just scratched the intention

what i am saying is that the role of the pastors in the local church is that he/she must ensure that you are growing

MuttleyLaff:
Let me explain the matter of
"how you know that you have the Holy Spirit and I dont...or you have more of him than I do" for you.

All of us are given the same measure of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is like a big or huge garment, which we have to wear and fill in
The Holy Spirit is loose and looks like a baggy cloth on some, whereas for some, it is tight fit pn them because they're nourished enough to put on weight or body mass to fill into the clothe

Dont take it personal or take offence, just munch, devour, eat and feast on the word, and soon you'll fill in and fill up the Holy Ghost garment

Sorry, I don't want your "holy spirit" that makes you contradict/challenge the teachings of Jesus and his apostles.

italo:
Sorry, I don't want your "holy spirit" that makes contradict/challenge the teachings of Jesus and his apostles.

Its not mine to give, besides it doesnt contradict/challenge, it testifes of Jesus