Pls Bible scholars, go through and contribute meaningfully with fact, I need to learn more.

2

Omg why did you reveal my chat with you, i thought chats are supposed to be private and you have gone ahead and revealed our private discussion to the public. . .

3

johnydon22:
Omg why did you reveal my chat with you, i thought chats are supposed to be private and you have gone ahead and revealed our private discussion to the public. . .

See this guy o, u Funny shall. U be pastor?

.

5

daroz:

See this guy o, u Funny shall. U be pastor?

Yes and am the New pastor in your church you had no idea i was on nairaland. . . Now you have leaked everything we talked in private to the public, is that right

6

johnydon22:


Yes and am the New pastor in your church you had no idea i was on nairaland. . . Now you have leaked everything we talked in private to the public, is that right

OK then, what is the name of my church?

.

That's all for the chat for now. As stated in the chat, I will love someone to convince me on this tithe issue, I want to be sure I am not doing the thing by not paying.

daroz:

OK then, what is the name of my church?

You want me to reveal more information and castigate myself more to the public

johnydon22:


You want me to reveal more information and castigate myself more to the public

OK then, abeg make we no derail the thread.

daroz:
That's all for the chat for now. As stated in the chat, I will love someone to convince me on this tithe issue, I want to be sure I am not doing the thing by not paying.

You are 100% correct ojare. Church tithing is the biggest fraud in the history of mankind

daroz:
Pls Bible scholars, go through and contribute meaningfully with fact, I need to learn more.

I can't see nothing bro... but I hope you searching for the truth and not "comfort"

(The real scholars will respond in due time) Consider the following principles in the NT,

1. 1 Corinth 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him,
Giving is to be done in proportion to God's prosperity received.

2 2 Corinth 9:7
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver
According to your level of faith, give to the extent to which you can do cheerfully.


3. 2 Corinth 8:2
2 For in the midst of an ordeal of severe tribulation, their abundance of joy and their depth of poverty [together] have overflowed in wealth of lavish generosity on their part.
Giving should be sacrificial. This understanding should back (2) else we would please ourselves.

4 2 Corinth 9:6
6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

God is not mocked; blessings will be directly proportional to our giving and this makes for growth in this grace.


5. 2 Corinth 8:3,4
3 For, as I can bear witness, [they gave] according to their ability, yes, and beyond their ability; and [they did it] voluntarily,
4 Begging us most insistently for the favor and the fellowship of contributing in this ministration for [the relief and support of] the saints [in Jerusalem].
Like David said, giving must be to some extent, costly (sometimes this cost is measured by the alternative foregone).

6 2 Corinth 8:5
5 Nor [was this gift of theirs merely the contribution] that we expected, but first they gave themselves to the Lord and to us [as His agents] by the will of God [[a]entirely disregarding their personal interests, they gave as much as they possibly could, having put themselves at our disposal to be directed by the will of God]—

The first thing we can give to God is ourselves; if this is missing others are rejected.

7 Romans 12:1

12 I appeal to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of [all] the mercies of God, to make a decisive dedication of your bodies [presenting all your members and faculties] as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God, which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship.

In accentuating (6), the motive behind our giving is our appreciation of the mercies received from God and a concomitant commitment to His purpose on earth; not necessarily with eyes on reward. (Mary did not have her mind on reward, but was expressing her gratitude when she bought the costly ointment)

In doing the above, you will see that the tithe option appears more convenient (to the flesh) because anyone following these principles will ,without compulsion, give more than 10%. Like other NT directives, it takes grace through faith to give!

Personally (I am not a pastor/clergyman!) I see the issue of tithe as a guide for those who , in view of the above principles, will ask, "how much is not too small for a start?"

Now the references above speak of giving (both to God and to those in need. In the NT, we are indebted to both) as (1) and Ephesians 4:28 show.

daroz:
That's all for the chat for now. As stated in the chat, I will love someone to convince me on this tithe issue, I want to be sure I am not doing the thing by not paying.

I've not tithed in a while but I still believe in tithing. To me, that is the easiest way of not loving money. The Bible clearly asks us to give, but how many of us ever give up to the amount of our tithes to the poor in a month. If you can, then good for you. If not, then I think you should give tithes because it will at least do something for someone besides yourself. Even if you don't earn much, always remember that nothing is too small in God's eyes. I don't believe Pastors need to blackmail the conscience of their congregation to tithe though. If it is not from your heart, then keep your money to yourself. Most people use money these days because there's nothing like burnt offerings anymore. Imagine if you tithe with yams, who is going to eat it?

netizenbuzz:


I've not tithed in a while but I still believe in tithing. To me, that is the easiest way of not loving money. The Bible clearly asks us to give, but how many of us ever give up to the amount of our tithes to the poor in a month. If you can, then good for you. If not, then I think you should give tithes because it will at least do something for someone besides yourself. Even if you don't earn much, always remember that nothing is too small in God's eyes. I don't believe Pastors need to blackmail the conscience of their congregation to tithe though. If it is not from your heart, then keep your money to yourself. Most people use money these days because there's nothing like burnt offerings anymore. Imagine if you tithe with yams, who is going to eat it?

The question is not about the morality, but the legality of tithing. I, for instance, despite I don't pay any money as tithe to my church, but I make several contribution in one way or another to the church willfully, to the extend that when added together May even surpass what is supposed to be my tithe at times.
But some pple still believe that I still need to be paying a certain percent of my income, without which the rest other giving is useless, cos devourer will always come. This is the area I am having problem with.

Is it a must for xtains to tithe? Is tithing actually met for the New testament xtains?

TITHE

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT TITHING IS A COMMAND NOT A REQUEST. 10% OF UR INCOME EVERY MONTH.

PAY YOUR TITHE AND DONT GET YOURSELF CONCERNED ABOUT HOW IT IS SPENT.

TITHE AND OFFERINGS GO TOGETHER

WHILE TITHE IS FIXED OFFERINGS ARE VARIABLE (AS U WISH OR AS GOD PROSPERED U )

God measures your love by your obedience. No matter how much u drag about tithe, only true xtians pay tithe.

daroz:
Is it a must for xtains to tithe? Is tithing actually met for the New testament xtains?

I used to be a rabid anti-tithing crusader. I was probably reacting angrily to the lies that had been shoved down my throat with such force and eloquence. Nowadays I don't tithe but this is my take;

1. Tithing your income is not a sin. Nor is Sunday/Saturday/Friday worship. You don't violate ANY of God's Word by doing any of these.
2. Tithing and Sunday worship are no express commandments or commandments of any sort
3. Both tithing and Sunday worship are BENEFICIAL; they inculcate discipline and inject into a Christian's life some form of predictability.
4. Tithing and Sunday worship as Christian traditions rooted in Torah. You will never find any command anywhere to meet on any day but you find Christians meeting on Sabath at first and later on the First Day/Sunday
5. Both tithing and Sunday worship have been abused and used to make believers guilty by ministers. You have some Christians who believe one can't be born again and hold a Sunday job, or skipping Sunday worship is inviting God's wrath. All God requires is regular assembly as per Hebrews with no commandment on the frequency or days. With tithing, all God requires is supporting the ministers of the gospel. No minimum is stipulated
6. Both tithing and Sunday worship are despised by some believers generally who latch on the act that they are no commandment to ignore them with contempt
7. There is shocking ignorance among believers concerning both Tithing and Sunday worship. Many simply assume they are commandments, and they never bother to validate these beliefs from the scriptures. This is why anti-tithers and SDAs easily corner tither and Sunday worshippers. So you may win either argument not necessarily because you are smart or right but because your debater is largely ignorant of the subject
8. Solution to Abuse of tithing and Sunday worship should be proper use and not necessarily disuse

PS: I have used interlaced my response with Sunday worship which was not the subject. This is no digression but to demonstrate similar principles and attitudes underlying both

Cc Gombs,Winsomex,Bidam,PaulGrundy,Goshen360,Ayoku777,esere826,PastorKun,MarkMiwerds,Image123

vooks:

I used to be a rabid anti-tithing crusader. I was probably reacting angrily to the lies that had been shoved down my throat with such force and eloquence. Nowadays I don't tithe but this is my take;

1. Tithing your income is not a sin. Nor is Sunday/Saturday/Friday worship. You don't violate ANY of God's Word by doing any of these.
2. Tithing and Sunday worship are no express commandments or commandments of any sort
3. Both tithing and Sunday worship are BENEFICIAL; they inculcate discipline and inject into a Christian's life some form of predictability.
4. Tithing and Sunday worship as Christian traditions rooted in Torah. You will never find any command anywhere to meet on any day but you find Christians meeting on Sabath at first and later on the First Day/Sunday
5. Both tithing and Sunday worship have been abused and used to make believers guilty by ministers. You have some Christians who believe one can't be born again and hold a Sunday job, or skipping Sunday worship is inviting God's wrath. All God requires is regular assembly as per Hebrews with no commandment on the frequency or days. With tithing, all God requires is supporting the ministers of the gospel. No minimum is stipulated
6. Both tithing and Sunday worship are despised by some believers generally who latch on the act that they are no commandment to ignore them with contempt
7. There is shocking ignorance among believers concerning both Tithing and Sunday worship. Many simply assume they are commandments, and they never bother to validate these beliefs from the scriptures. This is why anti-tithers and SDAs easily corner tither and Sunday worshippers. So you may win either argument not necessarily because you are smart or right but because your debater is largely ignorant of the subject
8. Solution to Abuse of tithing and Sunday worship should be proper use and not necessarily disuse

PS: I have used interlaced my response with Sunday worship which was not the subject. This is no digression but to demonstrate similar principles and attitudes underlying both

That's exactly what anti-tithers have been saying for ages. That not tithing for a christian is not a sin and it is not robbing God.

Giving is the admonition and instruction of the new covenant, not tithing.

A christian does not rob God because he gave 5% of his income instead of 10. And God will not send devourers to him because he gave it to a poor family instead of to a church or a pastor.

That's what we've been saying. That pastors should stop talking tithe altogether and just encourage giving.

But what they tell you is that giving is different from tithing. That no matter how you give, if you don't tithe, you're robbing God. That tithing is in a class of its own. That a giver who doesn't tithe is still sinning.

That's wrong. The early church didn't tithe, they simply gave.

The issue is not the way tithing is being abused. The issue is that tithing under the new covenant where every believer is a priest is unscriptural.

The early church never practise or preached it. They just encouraged giving. We need to do the same.

vooks:

I used to be a rabid anti-tithing crusader. I was probably reacting angrily to the lies that had been shoved down my throat with such force and eloquence. Nowadays I don't tithe but this is my take;

1. Tithing your income is not a sin. Nor is Sunday/Saturday/Friday worship. You don't violate ANY of God's Word by doing any of these.
2. Tithing and Sunday worship are no express commandments or commandments of any sort
3. Both tithing and Sunday worship are BENEFICIAL; they inculcate discipline and inject into a Christian's life some form of predictability.
4. Tithing and Sunday worship as Christian traditions rooted in Torah. You will never find any command anywhere to meet on any day but you find Christians meeting on Sabath at first and later on the First Day/Sunday
5. Both tithing and Sunday worship have been abused and used to make believers guilty by ministers. You have some Christians who believe one can't be born again and hold a Sunday job, or skipping Sunday worship is inviting God's wrath. All God requires is regular assembly as per Hebrews with no commandment on the frequency or days. With tithing, all God requires is supporting the ministers of the gospel. No minimum is stipulated
6. Both tithing and Sunday worship are despised by some believers generally who latch on the act that they are no commandment to ignore them with contempt
7. There is shocking ignorance among believers concerning both Tithing and Sunday worship. Many simply assume they are commandments, and they never bother to validate these beliefs from the scriptures. This is why anti-tithers and SDAs easily corner tither and Sunday worshippers. So you may win either argument not necessarily because you are smart or right but because your debater is largely ignorant of the subject
8. Solution to Abuse of tithing and Sunday worship should be proper use and not necessarily disuse

PS: I have used interlaced my response with Sunday worship which was not the subject. This is no digression but to demonstrate similar principles and attitudes underlying both

Cc Gombs,Winsomex,Bidam,PaulGrundy,Goshen360,Ayoku777,esere826,PastorKun,MarkMiwerds,Image123

shall we wait for the anti tithe crusaders?

daroz:
That's all for the chat for now. As stated in the chat, I will love someone to convince me on this tithe issue, I want to be sure I am not doing the thing by not paying.

In a sense vooks is correct about the reaction many of us have against tithing and thus do not tithe today. But I'm convinced that the error of tithing goes beyond its relation with Sunday worship. I hope to shed further light on this.

The truth is that tithing should not be practiced not just bc it is a tradition but mainly bc it is the gateway to Another Gospel raging in the church today. The only reason why people tithe is to be blessed, physically. That's all. Thus tithing opens the door to the prosperity gospel that is a total antithesis to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

When you stop tithing, and the threat of devourers stare you in the face, you would be forced to turn to scriptures to locate the truth that the Christian blessing is primarily spiritual and not physical. Hopefully, you will discover the blessing of the grace of God. You will find the God that gives us all things without our adding a kobo. Then you know GRACE in a practical and living way.

When you now give, the tithe will be totally inadequate. You will not be able to quantify your giving. You will give to God through the poor, the sick, weak, downtrodden and if need be the church. Giving will not be legalistic. It will be the outworking of grace in your heart. That's Christianity and not the religion tithing has succeeded to making it to be.

Sunday worship differ from tithing in this sense bc church leaders have not succeeded in making Sunday worship another prosperity principle.

ayoku777:


That's exactly what anti-tithers have been saying for ages. That not tithing for a christian is not a sin and it is not robbing God.

Giving is the admonition and instruction of the new covenant, not tithing.

A christian does not rob God because he gave 5% of his income instead of 10. And God will not send devourers to him because he gave it to a poor family instead of to a church or a pastor.

That's what we've been saying. That pastors should stop talking tithe altogether and just encourage giving.

But what they tell you is that giving is different from tithing. That no matter how you give, if you don't tithe, you're robbing God. That tithing is in a class of its own. That a giver who doesn't tithe is still sinning.

That's wrong. The early church didn't tithe, they simply gave.

The issue is not the way tithing is being abused. The issue is that tithing under the new covenant where every believer is a priest is unscriptural.

The early church never practise or preached it. They just encouraged giving. We need to do the same.

The NT giving borrowed heavily from Moses.
It takes some serious conscious effort to miss the similarity between supporting Levi with offerings and supporting ministers of the gospel. Paul under inspiration most certainly did not miss it.
1 Corinthians 9:13-14 (KJV)
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Remember the NT 'grace giving ' formula?
1 Corinthians 9:7 (KJV)
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
It too has its roots in Torah;
Exodus 25:2 (ESV)
Speak to the people of Israel, that they take for me a contribution. From every man whose heart moves him you shall receive the contribution for me
Exodus 35:5 (ESV)
5 Take from among you a contribution to the Lord. Whoever is of a generous heart, let him bring the Lord's contribution: gold, silver, and bronze

The so called 'grace giving' is not exactly new. I know believers tend to disparage the Law as mechanical and all that. This is not necessarily the case.

Nobody denies the strength of the principle behind tithing; discipline and consistency forget about the percentages. So a Christian on their own volition arriving at tithing is not legalism. You can borrow the principle without reverting to Moses

vooks:

The NT giving borrowed heavily from Moses.
It takes some serious conscious effort to miss the similarity between supporting Levi with offerings and supporting ministers of the gospel. Paul under inspiration most certainly did not miss it.
1 Corinthians 9:13-14 (KJV)
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Remember the NT 'grace giving ' formula?
1 Corinthians 9:7 (KJV)
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
It too has its roots in Torah;
Exodus 25:2 (ESV)
Speak to the people of Israel, that they take for me a contribution. From every man whose heart moves him you shall receive the contribution for me
Exodus 35:5 (ESV)
5 Take from among you a contribution to the Lord. Whoever is of a generous heart, let him bring the Lord's contribution: gold, silver, and bronze

The so called 'grace giving' is not exactly new. I know believers tend to disparage the Law as mechanical and all that. This is not necessarily the case.

Nobody denies the strength of the principle behind tithing; discipline and consistency forget about the percentages. So a Christian on their own volition arriving at tithing is not legalism. You can borrow the principle without reverting to Moses

Where is tithing mentioned in all the scriptures you quoted?

We are to give not tithe. We should give to pastors and the poor, family and loved ones, to the kingdom and to good courses. But not tithe.

That's what we are saying. Why are they bent on calling it tithe? Why can they just say believers should give.

The moment you call it tithe, then it is a law. Because tithing is not freewill. If you don't tithe, you are under a curse.

Tithing is not applicable to the new testament believer. We give.

All those verses you quoted are giving, not tithing. Don't call them tithe.

We christians learn giving from God, not through the law. God is a giver, giving is His nature. When I give, I'm not learning from Moses, I'm learning from Jesus.

Giving for the believer is an outworking of the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the Spirit. We are not borrowing it from Moses.

There is no tithing in the new covenant. Priests don't pay tithe, they give. Pastors should preach giving, period!

@ Ayoku777, is this you. Quite an age. Saw your antics on the traditional/white wedding thread. Still as vehement as usual. Hope you are well. By the way Ayoku, the robbing scripture of Malachi was talking about Tithe and Offering.

@Vooks, Wow, e be like say you don turn pastor o. Lol. See as you are trying to argue for, all of a sudden.

Anyway, it is the principle of a thing as well as motive as I have always said. The heart is what matters. Your conviction is a place you can only get to on your own.

Alwaystrue:
@ is this you. Quite an age. Saw your antics on the traditional/white wedding thread. Still as vehement as usual. Hope you are well. By the way Ayoku, the robbing scripture of Malachi was talking about Tithe and Offering.

Hi hi. How've you been? And family?

I know its about tithes and offering. The point I'm trying to make is whether you give five percent or twenty-five percent; God is pleased with your giving.

Since God is pleased with your giving no matter the percent, as long as you give from your heart with love, what then is the addiction of preachers to the term "tithing"? Why can't we just encourage giving, since that is all it is now?

I've said it time and time again, that priests don't pay tithe. But those who are bent on preaching tithe will find a way around it.

The early church only encouraged giving, not tithing. I give but I don't tithe.

Why can't pastors just ask believers to give? What is the addiction to the word tithing? I know non-tithers that give to God's work more than even those who tithe.

Preach giving, not tithing. Priests don't tithe. I'm sounding like a broken record already.

ayoku777:


Hi hi. How've you been? And family?

I know its about tithes and offering. The point I'm trying to make is whether you give five percent or twenty-five percent; God is pleased with your giving.

I've said it time and time again, that priests don't pay tithe. But those who are bent on preaching tithe will find a way around it.

The early church only encouraged giving, not tithing. I give but I don't tithe.

Why can't pastors just ask believers to give? What is the addiction to the word tithing? I know non-tithers that give to God's work more than even those who tithe.

Preach giving, not tithing. Priests don't tithe. I'm sounding like a broken record already.

I am well. Thanks for asking.
Lol. Yes you are but hey it must be based on your experience.
There are many forms of giving and tithe is one. In all, the heart of giving is key. I won't delve further. Have a great day.

@Vooks,
Lol at the word 'grace-giving' . Good to see how you are dividing scriptures. The bible is a complete book. Jesus spoke scripture which was initially spoken by God through Moses and the prophets which people did not believe, the dividing line was that he spoke THE SPIRIT of it. Jesus, the Word, had to become flesh to simplify it for us. The Word of GOD is ONE. It is human understanding and comprehension that tries to divide it. The Spirit is what we need to decipher scripture and in there lies understanding, life and light.

vooks:

[/size]I used to be a rabid anti-tithing crusader. I was probably reacting angrily to the lies that had been shoved down my throat with such force and eloquence. Nowadays I don't tithe but this is my take;

1. Tithing your income is not a sin. Nor is Sunday/Saturday/Friday worship. You don't violate ANY of God's Word by doing any of these.
2. Tithing and Sunday worship are no express commandments or commandments of any sort
3. Both tithing and Sunday worship are BENEFICIAL; they inculcate discipline and inject into a Christian's life some form of predictability.
4. Tithing and Sunday worship as Christian traditions rooted in Torah. You will never find any command anywhere to meet on any day but you find Christians meeting on Sabath at first and later on the First Day/Sunday
5. Both tithing and Sunday worship have been abused and used to make believers guilty by ministers. You have some Christians who believe one can't be born again and hold a Sunday job, or skipping Sunday worship is inviting God's wrath. All God requires is regular assembly as per Hebrews with no commandment on the frequency or days. With tithing, all God requires is supporting the ministers of the gospel. No minimum is stipulated
6. Both tithing and Sunday worship are despised by some believers generally who latch on the act that they are no commandment to ignore them with contempt
7. There is shocking ignorance among believers concerning both Tithing and Sunday worship. Many simply assume they are commandments, and they never bother to validate these beliefs from the scriptures. This is why anti-tithers and SDAs easily corner tither and Sunday worshippers. So you may win either argument not necessarily because you are smart or right but because your debater is largely ignorant of the subject
8. Solution to Abuse of tithing and Sunday worship should be proper use and not necessarily disuse

PS: I have used interlaced my response with Sunday worship which was not the subject. This is no digression but to demonstrate similar principles and attitudes underlying both

Cc Gombs,Winsomex,Bidam,PaulGrundy,Goshen360,Ayoku777,esere826,PastorKun,MarkMiwerds,Image123[size=6pt]

You've said it all
They are definitely not sins and definitely not commandments either
I've always maintained this stand

They are actually traditions which make sense in our present dispensation
traditions are great for structure, purpose and discipline like you rightly said, and I believe that God does not frown at them if they do not distort his glory.

However, I don't agree when people try to create some biblical doctrine out of tithing.
The logic does not fly, especially when you realise that Abraham was recorded to have tithed only once from loots -for those that claim that it is a pass down from Abraham;
And the Jews form of tithing is certainly not what we have in the church today -for those that say it is our inheritance in a spiritual Israel

I believe that tithing in our dispensation is simply a prophetic desire of God in order for the kingdom to achieve some goals
no need for folks trying to quote bible on top am as if say we be zombie wen no get sense
Prophetic utterance don't really need a distrortion of logic. It is what it is
In the start of the Apostolic ministry, the prophetic desire for Peter's 'headed' church was for them to sell their belongings and lay it down at the feet of the apostles for onward distribution. This had no precedence.
While for Paul's ministry, they gave willingly to him, and he even went about working to earn money.

I am also of the view that when the wind (Spirit) changes from tithing to something else
then we should be girded ready to be blown in the new direction, not our MOG's and followers holding on desperately to tithing

I don't tithe. I've tried to previously, but for me it brought condemnation (maybe because of the way I think) so I stopped.
I understand the need for financing the Kingdom, and so make pledges which could be more or less than Tithes (I try to make it more based on realistic calculations). This edifies me more.
If 2mrw I sense the wind (Spirit) blowing me in the tithing direction I will do so without recourse to convoluted doctrines


The calling of Peter and Paul were different. One could eat unclean things, while the other could not
David ate priests bread and lived, while Uzzah tried to help the ark of the covenant and died
Zacariah questioned Gabriel about his good news and went dumb, wheres Mary did the same and Gabriel spread mat start to explain the process give am

God deals with us differently according to his grace and purpose for us.


..may God continue to prosper those who prosper his Kingdom