PhysicsQED:


Interesting. There are actually some non-Bantu west African languages where "olu" or a very similar word has a meaning that is similar to "master, god, or ruler" of some object or place. But I didn't bring that up earlier when I mentioned that "olubaru" was said to mean "masters of the bush" in Dogon because the correspondence between olu (masters) in Dogon languages and olu in some non-Bantu west African languages may just be a coincidence.

But regardless, there really is no reason so far to think that either "men" or "human beings" in Dogon languages would be "baru" as sonzo seemed to think.

I don't know much about the Dogon, but many bantu tribes have A, aba, ba, etc. prefixes when describing people, so maybe sonzo saw a pattern there.

pkjag:
FYI Al in Arabic is a definite/indefinite article such as a or the in English, most Bantu languages however do not have definite/indefinite articles.

I think she was actually referring to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_%28deity%29

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/181687/El

PhysicsQED:


Perhaps correspondences like these between words from an Afroasiatic language group (whether Semitic or any other Afroasiatic language group) and some non-Bantu and Bantu "Niger-Congo" languages are not due to the spread of words with a specifically Semitic origin, but due to some underlying similarities between some Niger-Congo languages and some Afroasiatic languages.

You are right but mostly it's the Nilo-Saharan groups such as the Nilotes, the Maasai in Kenya have many towns/places beginning with the Ol word, Ol kejuado, Ol jororok, Ol loitoktok, i think it means of/the also many of them have names such as William Ole Ntimama, which means William son of Ntimama, they are one of the oldest Nilotic tribes, so maybe they had some influence on the south sudanese nubians who in turn influenced the ancient egyptians who influenced the semitic tribes of the middle east.

Check my post

https://instagram.com/p/2oyb7BP4jY/

xage:



People as too many questions because the left many knowledge unacquainted, many books unread...

How do i begin to teach you now..thinkinggggggg....

Ok...Oya say A.....B......C.....D

I politely repeat: pls provide evidence?

PhysicsQED ost=34097114:
Back to my regular username.
Sure, I can elaborate. Based on the links I posted earlier of some actual Dogon languages, one might think a word closer to "aru" could be human being or person in a Dogon language (perhaps as some sort of dialect variation), but there would be no reason yet to think that "baru" specifically could be a word for human being in those languages. I don't see why you think it matters yet what "baru" means in some Bantu languages when the issue is to first determine which words mean human being, person, or man in all Dogon languages before proceeding to make comparisons. So far I have seen nothing to suggest that "baru" or "baro" or "bantu" is the word for human beings in a Dogon language, because you have not shown any evidence to support that idea.

In the word "olubaru","aru" cant mean "human beings" coz ,if you break down olubaru=olu(master/god)+(b)+aru(human beings), we wont make any sense coz ,what "b" stands for?Can you elaborate on "aru"?Everything I said about "baru" makes sense coz it consistent with the way bantus languages work:
Muntu(human being )===>bantus(human beings)
muru (human being)====>baru(human beings)
moro (human being)===>baro(human beings)
And all these words exist in various bantus languages!Your word "aru" doesn't exist anywhere!

PhysicsQED ost=34097114:

If "olu" means master or god or something similar in several Bantu languages, what makes you think that this is an exclusively "Bantu" feature which must be indicative of Bantu origin whenever it is seen? You also mentioned "me/mi" as meaning "my" and that is definitely not an exclusively Bantu linguistic feature, as many languages from other African language groups have a similar or identical word for the same thing.

I never said that the words "olu" or "me/mi" exist only in bantus languages.i am aware of the existence of these in some sudano-sahelian languages (yorubas,igbos,etc..).I just used them to prove my point.If "olu" means master/god in dogon language ,why cant "baru" means "human beings".And so far you haven't prove me wrong!

PhysicsQED ost=34097114:

And I don't see what the relevance of a few specific coincidences in names is as far as indicating ethnic origin. Coincidences in names across different ethnic groups and language groups are found all the time in names in Africa and elsquote author=PhysicsQED ost=34097114ewhere. So far nobody has shown that Dogon vocabulary and grammar are closer to Bantu languages than to non Bantu languages.

We can prove that names such as "Hutchinson","markovitz","Jordan"etc.....aren't African names coz the probability of finding an African with these name is zero.Linguistics proofs are statistical or "counting" proofs.If I can found enough common words between two languages,I can conclude that either these two languages are intrinsically related or one language borrowed from the other or these two languages borrowed from each other.if I can found words common only to dogon and bantus languages,why cant I conclude that these two families of language are related.I think more researches are needed to shed light on relations between the dogon and bantus languages.

PhysicsQED ost=34097114:

So one could equally say that some non-Bantu west Africans used to occupy a wider area of Africa than the majority of history books suggest based on some origin stories of origin outside of west Africa, and therefore claim that much of Africa was originally "non-Bantu west African" occupied territory. In which case, one could then just claim that non-Bantu west Africans were responsible for whatever other particular ancient art or relics scattered throughout Africa that one wants to claim.
So what major significance does this have in the context of the Nok? There are lots of ethnic groups in Nigeria, and we don't even know for certain that the ethnic identities of today were solidified/definite back at the time of the Nok culture. And for all we know the ethnic group of the Nok could simply be ancestral to some ethnic groups found today in north central Nigeria.
Since you admit that it is not all Nigerian groups that claim an outside origin, anyone could equally claim that some ethnic groups of Nigeria who claim to be autochthonous were the first to settle in Nigeria or were responsible for the Nok culture. Note that being first to settle in Nigeria and being responsible for the Nok culture are not necessarily the same thing, though you have been associating them as being necessarily connected.

We know for certain that bantus were in Nigeria first coz that is where their origin lies(at least according to generally accepted theories).And we also know that groups like hausas,igbos,yorubas,fulanis,binis,etc...aren't autochthonus to Nigeria as attested by their own oral traditions.And considering the fact that there are no similitudes between Nok art and these different groups artistic productions ,we can conclude that there are no relations whatsoever between Nok and these ethnic groups.Anyway,if there were relations between nok and these racial groups,nok wouldn't have died out just like that.it makes sense to think that nok died out coz those who created it left or were destroyed/absorbed by more powerful groups.And bantus left.....and nok died!

Sonzo,

The reason you could not actually break down "olubaru" and give its etymology is because you have no understanding of any Dogon languages. So far, based on what I had posted, we had some reason to think that "olubaru" meant masters of the bush (though from what I have found out now, this is not even a literal meaning, but actually somewhat descriptive), but we couldn't say for sure what each part of the word (olubaru) meant without evidence. However, I will show below that the meaning of olubaru is not so simple, and that olu does not even mean masters (as you suggested it did and as I also suspected it might).

There is no reason to think the word "human beings" is literally in the term olubaru. I have explained this earlier. Until you show evidence of "human beings" actually being in olubaru, your claims don't have any significance. I have not asserted that there is a word "aru" in Dogon. But there exists at least a faint possibility that "aru" could be dialect variation or a grammatical inflection or an archaic form of a word meaning "men" for the simple reason that "ara" means "man" in at least some of the Dogon languages as shown by me in my first response to you. In those pdf links I posted, there is simply nothing like muntu, muru, moro, bantu, baru, or baro as referring to man or human or to men or human beings in those four Dogon languages, and there is absolutely no reason to think such words with those meanings would be found in other Dogon languages until evidence is shown of such words existing in any Dogon language.

You wanted to know what the "b" part would be in the hypothetical etymology I gave? In the hypothetical etymology I gave, where "aru" might mean men or human beings if "men" or "human beings" were actually in olubaru (which I don't believe is the case), I never assumed that "olu" was a separate word by itself, as you did, so I had no reason to give an explanation for "b." Anyway, assuming I had to give an explanation for "b" (I actually did not), if there were a word "ibi" or "ebe" or "ubu" or some other word like that (I'm not saying there actually is), and the word "Olubaru" actually had "olu" and "aru" as separate words, a combination such as

olu + ibi + aru or olu + ib + aru

olu + ebe + aru or olu + eb + aru

olu + ubu + aru or olu + ub + aru

could easily produce the word "olubaru." You assumed there were only two parts to the word (and indeed, there may be) but that is just a guess, and the word may actually be a longer phrase that has been made shorter by the elimination of some sounds. This is a simple phenomenon in some languages where some vowels are eliminated when words are joined together to make new/longer words. But it doesn't really matter because I was only speaking about a hypothetical (if "human beings" or "men" were really in olubaru), not claiming what the etymology really is, as you are.

When you brought up "olubaru" you initially claimed "olu" meant sacred, now the belief is that it may mean god or master, after my response. But I want to bring this Dogon olubaru stuff to an end, so I will post the real meaning of olu in Dogon, which I found out after more searching. Here is the real meaning of olu:

"The village/bush opposition is fundamental. The bush (olu) is the source of all strength and wisdom, feared for its unpredictability but needed for a constant flow of energy and knowledge into the village (van Beek and Banga 1990)." - from "Dogon Restudied: A Field Evaluation of the Work of Marcel Griaule [and Comments and Replies]" (1991)

I looked up van Beek and Banga since they are cited in this part of the article and I found that these two authors (Walter E.A. van Beek and Pieteke Banga) also wrote an article called "The Dogon and their Trees." Here are two relevant parts of that article:

"The Dogon realize that trees are essential for survival and value them, not so much as a production factor, as already outlined, but as a part of oru, the bush, a category sharply contrasted with ana, the village. The notion of oru is complex. On the one hand the bush is dangerous: no one will ever sleep there without the protection of huts or people. . .Several types of spirits roam the bush and may attack people or exchange body parts with them. An often voiced fear is that spirits will exchange body parts with them. An often voiced fear is that spirits will exchange eyes with humans, rendering them blind."

"The main preservers of the cultural treasures, the orubaru are initiated in a 3-month period in a cave outside the village, living as animals as much as possible (no clothing, no speech, sleeping on the ground, no sexual interaction, etc.) In fact, the word orubaru means "added to the bush" (Calame-Griaule 1968). 'If they are not like animals, they can never learn wisdom', an informant explained. In the sigu festival, held every 60 years, the Dogon notion of a normal lifetime - the surge of new life - results from men returning from the bush into the village. In a reversed fashion, the more dangerous power of the masks stems from the bush itself entering the village. Even the - seemingly - most human of all arts, speech, stems from the bush in the form of the secret language (sigu so; van Beek 1991)."

Note that oru and olu are one and the same. The shift between l sounds and r sounds in many languages is very well known to linguists.

With this, we have eliminated the possibility that "olu" literally means master or god or sacred. How the rest of the word should be (literally) interpreted is unclear at the moment, but there is no point making claims and assumptions since neither of us understands those languages. It is clear that you do not understand the Dogon languages and do not have the capacity to give the etymology of words in their languages (just as I do not) based merely on your own guesses, hence your claim that olu meant sacred, which you then adapted to meaning god or master after one of my posts in this thread, when in fact it means bush. I did not know it meant bush either, but I am not pretending to have some expert knowledge of the language or claiming to be able give the etymology of words in Dogon. I think I am done with the Dogon issue, since you could not give any evidence to support any claims you made there.

On Nok, let's keep this more simple. I am not going to take the time to do a detailed comparison of specific images or give any references when it seems that you haven't looked at any comparisons that any researchers on this culture have made in published articles and books.

I never claimed the art was made by Hausas, Igbos, Fulanis, Yorubas or Binis. I made no specific ethnic attributions, because there is not actually strong evidence for such attributions yet. By the way, I am not sure why you keep mentioning these specific groups as though these are the only groups in Nigeria. There are hundreds of other ethnic groups in Nigeria and any one of the many groups in the northern/central Nigerian area could be direct descendants of the group that made the Nok art.

There is other ancient (2000+ years old) terracotta art from non-Nok artistic traditions in Nigeria that is already known, in addition to later "medieval" terracotta sculptures from other parts of Nigeria. There does not seem to be any evidence of similarly old (as Nok) terracotta or Nok-like terracotta in Bantu language areas so far, so it is strange that you claim that the reason Nok art stopped is because Bantus left or were absorbed.

You may think the art doesn't have any resemblances with some other Nigerian art, but at the same time I don't see anything that could be said to be distinctly "Bantu" in the art, in terms of aesthetic characteristics seen in other art made by groups in Bantu language areas. There is pretty much no one (until this thread, I guess) who has seen the Nok art and said "that doesn't look like it could be West African, it must be Bantu" or "that clearly looks like it was made by Bantu language groups." On the contrary, researchers that looked at the art after it was discovered soon noticed similarities in the way certain parts of the bodies and certain ornaments on the bodies of Nok figures were depicted and the way certain ornaments and body parts were depicted on other (later) Nigerian art. You just haven't read enough about the art and I don't think you've seen enough of it either, because there are even pieces of Nok sculpture which are nearly realistic (rather than very stylized) in their depiction of faces and other body parts, and realism or near realism are characteristics found in some later Nigerian art.

To be honest, if, for some reason, I were to look outside of the Nigerian area for what later African art is most similar to the Nok art I would look first at certain pieces from among the Inland Niger Delta region terracotta sculptures from Mali before I would look at any particular art tradition from a Bantu language area, since there are at least a few similarities between some sculptures from the two traditions (such as in the repeated depiction of elongated faces, depictions of horse rider figures, and in some depictions of beards on faces). Not to say that there is some direct connection between the two, but there are at least a few similarities there.

I think I have some idea of why you might want to claim the art was made by a culture that spoke a language classified in the Bantu linguistic group, but honestly nothing you've said so far seems that plausible and no evidence has been provided to support your theory. I do not want to stretch out our discussion beyond this, so I'll let you have the last word if you want it. Peace.

@sonzo

Why do you keep saying Groups like Yoruba, Bini, Igbo migrated from outside Nigeria?
Any proof? Cus as a yoruba man, I can say we have no history of coming from any land outside modern Nigeria. ..any thing that suggests otherwise is a recent revisionism lacking solid evidence

Btw do you know any Bantu group that holds anything identical to the Nok art?

MarieSucre:
I politely repeat: pls provide evidence?

I humbly put to you to challenge of researching yourself and stop playing lazy

xage:


I humbly put to you to challenge of researching yourself and stop playing lazy

Please I humbly beg; give me the evidence of such an assertion.

MarieSucre:
Please I humbly beg; give me the evidence of such an assertion.

Why are you stalking me? i'm married o

xage:


Why are you stalking me? i'm married o

Good! its confirmed you're not a child so away with the childish responses. Evidence please and no more if that evasive nonsense.

macof:
@sonzo

Why do you keep saying Groups like Yoruba, Bini, Igbo migrated from outside Nigeria?
Any proof? Cus as a yoruba man, I can say we have no history of coming from any land outside modern Nigeria. ..any thing that suggests otherwise is a recent revisionism lacking solid evidence.

You need to read Olumide Lucas' 'The Religion of the Yorubas'. He provides fulsome evidence of Yoruba migration from Egypt.


Example: Linguistic similarities between Yoruba and Medu Neter, the language of Ancient Egypt.

LINGUISTIC SIMILARITIES

According to Ferdinand de Saussure, the surest way to prove cultural contact between peoples is to adduce linguistic evidence (Ferdinand de Saussure (1972) General HISTORY OF Africa).

One of the largest inhabitants of Egypt were Yoruboid , and it will be expected that a good percentage of their language will be Yoruboid, too. See the table below.

EGYPT YORUBA
1. Wu (rise) Wu (rise)
2. Ausa (Osiris, father of the gods) Ausa (father)
3. Ere (python/ Serpent) Ere (Python / Serpent)
4. Horise (a great god) Orise (a great god)
5. Sen (group of worshippers) Sen ( to worship)
6. Ged (to chant) Igede (a chant)
7. Ta (sell / offer) Ta (sell/offer)
8. Sueg (a fool) Suegbe (a fool)
9. On ( living person) One ( living person)
10. Kum (a club) Kumo( a club)
11. Enru (fear / terrible) Eru (fear / terrible
12. Kun / qun (brave man) Ekun (title of a brave man)
13. Win (to be) Wino (to be)
14. Odonit (festival) Odon (festival)
15. Ma or mi (to breath) Mi. (to breathe)
16. Tebu (a town) Tebu (a town)
17. Adumu (a water god) Adumu (a water god)
18. Khu (to kill) Ku (die)
19. Rekha (knowledge} Larikha (knowledge)
20 Hika (evil) Ika (evil)
21 Mhebi (humble) Mebi, humble to ones family
22 Sata (perfect) Santan (perfect)
23 Unas (lake of fire) Una (fire)
24 Tan (complete) Tan (complete)
25 Beru (force of emotion) Beru (fear)
26 Em (smell) Emi (smell)
27 Pa (open) Pa (break open)
28 Bi (to become) Bi (to give birth, to become)
29 Hepi (a water god) Ipi (a water god)
30 Sami (water god) Sami (a water god)
31 Osiri (a water god) Oshiri (a water god)
32 Heqet � Re (frog deity) Ekere (the frog)
33 Feh (to go away) Feh (to blow away)
34 Kot (build) Ko (build)
35 Kot (boat) Oko (boat)
36 Omi (water) Omi (water)
37 Ra (time) Ira (time)
38 Oni (title of Osiris) Oni (title of the king of Ife)
39 Budo (dwelling place) Budo (dwelling place)
40 Dudu (black image of Osiris) Dudu (black person)
41 Un (living person) Una (living person)
42 Ra (possess) Ra (possess/buy)
43 Beka (pray/confess) Be or ka (to pray or confess)
44 Po (many) Po (many/cheap)
45 Horuw (head) middle Egyptian Oruwo (head) (Ijebu)
46 Min (a god) Emin (spirit)
47 Ash (invocation) Ashe (invocation)
48 Aru (mouth) Arun (mouth ) Ilaje
49 Do (river) Odo (river)
50 Do (settlement) Udo (settlement)
51 Shekiri (water god) Shekiri (a water god)
52 Bu (a place) Bu ,a place
53 Khepara (beetle Akpakara (beetle)
54 No (a water god Eno (a water god)
55 Ra -Shu (light after darkness Uran-shu (the light of the moon
56 Run-ka (spirit name) Oruko (name)
57 Deb/dib to pierce Dibi (to pierce)
58 Maat (goddess of justice Mate (goddess of justice)
59 Aru (rise) Ru (rise up)
60 Fa (carry) Fa (pull)
61 Kaf (pluck) Ka (pluck)
62 Bu bi (evil place) Bubi (evil place)
63 In- n (negation In-n (negation)
64 Iset (a water god) Ise (a water god)
65 Shabu (watcher) Ashonbo (watcher)
66 Semati (door keeper) Sema (lock/shut the door)
67 Khenti amenti (big words of Osiris Yenti � yenti (big, very big)
68 Ma (to know) Ma (to know)
69 Bebi, a son of osiris) Ube, a god
70 Tchatcha chief (they examined the death to see if they tricked tsatsa (a game of tricks, gambling )
71 Ren( animal foot) Ren (to walk)
72 Ka (rest) Ka (rest/tired)
73 Mu (water) Mu (drink water)
74 Abi (against) Ubi (against / impediment)
75 Reti (to beseech) Retin (to listen)
76 Hir (praise) Yiri (praise)
77 Ta(spread out) Ta (spread out)
78 Kurud (round) Kurudu (round)
79 Ak � male Ako (male)
80 Se � to create Se (to create)
81 Hoo (rejoice) Yo (rejoice)
82 Kamwr (black) Kuru (extremely black
83 Omitjener (deep water) Omijen (deep water)
84 Nen, the primeval water mother) Nene (mother
85 Ta (land) Ita (land junction)
86 Horiwo (head) Oriwo (head)
87 Ro (talk) Ro (to think)
88 Kurubu (round) Kurubu (deep and round)
89 Penka (divide) Kpen (divide)
90 Ma-su (to mould) Ma or su (to mould)
91 Osa (time) Osa (time)
92 Osa (tide) Osa ( tide)
93 Fare (wrap) Fari (wrap)
94 Kom (complete) Kon (complete)
95 Edjo (cobra) Edjo (cobra)
96 Didi (red fruit) Diden (red)
97 Ba (soul) Oba (king) soul of a people
98 Ke (hill) Oke( hill
99 Anubis (evil deity) Onubi (evil person)
100 Kan (one: Middle Egyptian) Okan one)
101 Nam (water god) Inama (water god)


http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl?md=read;id=2139

ROSSIKE:
You need to read Olumide Lucas' 'The Religion of the Yorubas'. He provides fulsome evidence of Yoruba migration from Egypt.


Example: Linguistic similarities between Yoruba and Medu Neter, the language of Ancient Egypt.

LINGUISTIC SIMILARITIES

According to Ferdinand de Saussure, the surest way to prove cultural contact between peoples is to adduce linguistic evidence (Ferdinand de Saussure (1972) General HISTORY OF Africa).

One of the largest inhabitants of Egypt were Yoruboid , and it will be expected that a good percentage of their language will be Yoruboid, too. See the table below.

EGYPT YORUBA
1. Wu (rise) Wu (rise)
2. Ausa (Osiris, father of the gods) Ausa (father)
3. Ere (python/ Serpent) Ere (Python / Serpent)
4. Horise (a great god) Orise (a great god)
5. Sen (group of worshippers) Sen ( to worship)
6. Ged (to chant) Igede (a chant)
7. Ta (sell / offer) Ta (sell/offer)
8. Sueg (a fool) Suegbe (a fool)
9. On ( living person) One ( living person)
10. Kum (a club) Kumo( a club)
11. Enru (fear / terrible) Eru (fear / terrible
12. Kun / qun (brave man) Ekun (title of a brave man)
13. Win (to be) Wino (to be)
14. Odonit (festival) Odon (festival)
15. Ma or mi (to breath) Mi. (to breathe)
16. Tebu (a town) Tebu (a town)
17. Adumu (a water god) Adumu (a water god)
18. Khu (to kill) Ku (die)
19. Rekha (knowledge} Larikha (knowledge)
20 Hika (evil) Ika (evil)
21 Mhebi (humble) Mebi, humble to ones family
22 Sata (perfect) Santan (perfect)
23 Unas (lake of fire) Una (fire)
24 Tan (complete) Tan (complete)
25 Beru (force of emotion) Beru (fear)
26 Em (smell) Emi (smell)
27 Pa (open) Pa (break open)
28 Bi (to become) Bi (to give birth, to become)
29 Hepi (a water god) Ipi (a water god)
30 Sami (water god) Sami (a water god)
31 Osiri (a water god) Oshiri (a water god)
32 Heqet � Re (frog deity) Ekere (the frog)
33 Feh (to go away) Feh (to blow away)
34 Kot (build) Ko (build)
35 Kot (boat) Oko (boat)
36 Omi (water) Omi (water)
37 Ra (time) Ira (time)
38 Oni (title of Osiris) Oni (title of the king of Ife)
39 Budo (dwelling place) Budo (dwelling place)
40 Dudu (black image of Osiris) Dudu (black person)
41 Un (living person) Una (living person)
42 Ra (possess) Ra (possess/buy)
43 Beka (pray/confess) Be or ka (to pray or confess)
44 Po (many) Po (many/cheap)
45 Horuw (head) middle Egyptian Oruwo (head) (Ijebu)
46 Min (a god) Emin (spirit)
47 Ash (invocation) Ashe (invocation)
48 Aru (mouth) Arun (mouth ) Ilaje
49 Do (river) Odo (river)
50 Do (settlement) Udo (settlement)
51 Shekiri (water god) Shekiri (a water god)
52 Bu (a place) Bu ,a place
53 Khepara (beetle Akpakara (beetle)
54 No (a water god Eno (a water god)
55 Ra -Shu (light after darkness Uran-shu (the light of the moon
56 Run-ka (spirit name) Oruko (name)
57 Deb/dib to pierce Dibi (to pierce)
58 Maat (goddess of justice Mate (goddess of justice)
59 Aru (rise) Ru (rise up)
60 Fa (carry) Fa (pull)
61 Kaf (pluck) Ka (pluck)
62 Bu bi (evil place) Bubi (evil place)
63 In- n (negation In-n (negation)
64 Iset (a water god) Ise (a water god)
65 Shabu (watcher) Ashonbo (watcher)
66 Semati (door keeper) Sema (lock/shut the door)
67 Khenti amenti (big words of Osiris Yenti � yenti (big, very big)
68 Ma (to know) Ma (to know)
69 Bebi, a son of osiris) Ube, a god
70 Tchatcha chief (they examined the death to see if they tricked tsatsa (a game of tricks, gambling )
71 Ren( animal foot) Ren (to walk)
72 Ka (rest) Ka (rest/tired)
73 Mu (water) Mu (drink water)
74 Abi (against) Ubi (against / impediment)
75 Reti (to beseech) Retin (to listen)
76 Hir (praise) Yiri (praise)
77 Ta(spread out) Ta (spread out)
78 Kurud (round) Kurudu (round)
79 Ak � male Ako (male)
80 Se � to create Se (to create)
81 Hoo (rejoice) Yo (rejoice)
82 Kamwr (black) Kuru (extremely black
83 Omitjener (deep water) Omijen (deep water)
84 Nen, the primeval water mother) Nene (mother
85 Ta (land) Ita (land junction)
86 Horiwo (head) Oriwo (head)
87 Ro (talk) Ro (to think)
88 Kurubu (round) Kurubu (deep and round)
89 Penka (divide) Kpen (divide)
90 Ma-su (to mould) Ma or su (to mould)
91 Osa (time) Osa (time)
92 Osa (tide) Osa ( tide)
93 Fare (wrap) Fari (wrap)
94 Kom (complete) Kon (complete)
95 Edjo (cobra) Edjo (cobra)
96 Didi (red fruit) Diden (red)
97 Ba (soul) Oba (king) soul of a people
98 Ke (hill) Oke( hill
99 Anubis (evil deity) Onubi (evil person)
100 Kan (one: Middle Egyptian) Okan one)
101 Nam (water god) Inama (water god)


http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl?md=read;id=2139

Am very sure you don't understand yoruba
Half of those words there don't mean what you posted as their translation in yoruba
For the others that do, it can be argued that it is just some of those cases where words from different languages sound alike and mean similar things..
I can think of some on Yoruba - English
Doesn't mean yoruba came from English speaking people

How can I trust the Egyptian words there? If the compiler of this list could fail in some yoruba translations, what's to say those Egyptian translations aren't wrong? Especially considering the fact that the language is no longer spoken


I know much about the Egyptian religion and as a Yoruba I know even more about my ancestral Spirituality... there's nothing to suggest an Egyptian origin for the Yoruba

macof:


Am very sure you don't understand yoruba
Half of those words there don't mean what you posted as their translation in yoruba
For the others that do, it can be argued that it is just some of those cases where words from different languages sound alike and mean similar things..
I can think of some on Yoruba - English
Doesn't mean yoruba came from English speaking people

How can I trust the Egyptian words there? If the compiler of this list could fail in some yoruba translations, what's to say those Egyptian translations aren't wrong? Especially considering the fact that the language is no longer spoken


I know much about the Egyptian religion and as a Yoruba I know even more about my ancestral Spirituality... there's nothing to suggest an Egyptian origin for the Yoruba

Oh...so if half the words above correspond it's just a coincidence correct? OH SURE... Talk about magical links. By the way, it is a LIE that half the words do not correspond. And claiming to be Yoruba does not make you an expert in Yoruba history. Olumide Lucas was a Yoruba scholar who conducted proper research into the Egyptian connection and reached very positive conclusions. What research or field studies have you done? You can't just sit on your backside criticising while experts are out on the field working, and you ignore their works. If you really cared for the truth, why haven't you ordered Lucas' work to see his findings? His is the seminal work on the subject. Surely you've heard of him?

ROSSIKE:
Oh...so if half the words above correspond it's just a coincidence correct? OH SURE... Talk about magical links. By the way, it is a LIE that half the words do not correspond. And claiming to be Yoruba does not make you an expert in Yoruba history. Olumide Lucas was a Yoruba scholar who conducted proper research into the Egyptian connection and reached very positive conclusions. What research or field studies have you done? You can't just sit on your backside criticising while experts are out on the field working, and you ignore their works. If you really cared for the truth, why haven't you ordered Lucas' work to see his findings? His is the seminal work on the subject. Surely you've heard of him?

First it's very wrong for you to call me a liar without basis, when you have no idea of yoruba language or yoruba in general.
It just goes to show how desperate you are to accept any bullshit you read on the Internet - your desperation to link yoruba to egypt
for what reason, I stil don't know

anyone can come up with 100 similar words between any Two different languages, but this case is even suspicious. .
1. Over 60 of the words in your list are wrong translations into yoruba
2. How can the compiler justify those Egyptian translations? Where did he learn Egyptian language? Infact who compiled that list? Pls can I have a name?
Considering the already laid record of falsehood (in the yoruba part) I believe I am right to question the less than 40 Egyptian words that do have similar meaning with the yoruba words applied

I am a Yoruba Isese adherent, my whole life at least for the last 2 years has been entirely committed to Yoruba culture ,history and Spirituality so I don't need an Olumide Lucas who's origins I don't know, who's aim for claiming Egyptian origin of my people I don't know. This Olumide Lucas, what's his origins? His family name? Lucas isn't a yoruba name so from whom did he get the name? Where did he go to conduct his research? Internet Explorer like you?
Or from earlier books of falsehoods like Samuel Johnson's? Who did he interview? What cult does he belong to?
You think intelligent people just believe whatever they read from a book ignoring the right source?

I know much about the Egyptians and I even know more about the yoruba, I have done immense research on the yoruba nation, growing up until I die. But there's nothing Egyptian in yoruba culture
All there is are typically African similarities like you would find between any Two African people not cultural descent.

macof:


First it's very wrong for you to call me a liar without basis, when you have no idea of yoruba language or yoruba in general.
It just goes to show how desperate you are to accept any bullshit you read on the Internet - your desperation to link yoruba to egypt
for what reason, I stil don't know

anyone can come up with 100 similar words between any Two different languages, but this case is even suspicious. .
1. Over 60 of the words in your list are wrong translations into yoruba
2. How can the compiler justify those Egyptian translations? Where did he learn Egyptian language? Infact who compiled that list? Pls can I have a name?
Considering the already laid record of falsehood (in the yoruba part) I believe I am right to question the less than 40 Egyptian words that do have similar meaning with the yoruba words applied

I am a Yoruba Isese adherent, my whole life at least for the last 2 years has been entirely committed to Yoruba culture ,history and Spirituality so I don't need an Olumide Lucas who's origins I don't know, who's aim for claiming Egyptian origin of my people I don't know. This Olumide Lucas, what's his origins? His family name? Lucas isn't a yoruba name so from whom did he get the name? Where did he go to conduct his research? Internet Explorer like you?
Or from earlier books of falsehoods like Samuel Johnson's? Who did he interview? What cult does he belong to?
You think intelligent people just believe whatever they read from a book ignoring the right source?

I know much about the Egyptians and I even know more about the yoruba, I have done immense research on the yoruba nation, growing up until I die. But there's nothing Egyptian in yoruba culture
All there is are typically African similarities like you would find between any Two African people not cultural descent.

Dude you have no interest in knowledge. You couldn't even bother researching who Lucas was before writing your trash, and asking questions about him. He wrote his seminal work in 1948, probably before your dad was born. You are NOT a researcher into Yoruba precolonial history if you have not heard of or read Olumide Lucas. Here: educate yourself if possible: If it's the price of the book that's your problem tell us, we'll contribute for your learning. I've never seen anyone dismiss/critique a book they've never opened, except the irredeemably ignorant.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Religion-Yorubas-Olumide-Lucas/dp/0963878786

At least read the preview!!!!! Don't be a confirmation of the saying ''if you want to keep something away from black folk put it in a book!''

Excerpts from leading works on the Yoruba - Egypt connection:

Read:

"The Religion of the Yorubas" by J. Olumide Lucas
"Religion of Ancient Egypt" by A. H. Sayce
"The Opening Up of Africa" by H. H. Johnston





The gradations of status recognized by the Yoruba as existing between their deities are as follows:

1. The Supreme Deity - Olorun.

2. The Major Orisas, of whom Esu and Ifa are the most important.

3. The Deified Spirits of Ancestors and other Spirits, of whom Oro, Eluku, Agemo and Egungun are the most important.

4. The Minor Orisas.


======
Olorun <-> Horu
======

Over and above all the other deities classified above and excelling them in power, honor and majesty is the Supreme Deity known as OLORUN. He is credited with omnipresence, omniscience, and omnipotence.

Olorun (pronounced Or-lor-roon) may be divided into two parts, viz., Ol'-orun. The word Orun means "sky," and the syllable Ol is only a reduplication of the initial letter of orun together with the letter "l" generally used to denote ownership or agency.

The word Olorun therefore means "Lord of the sky or of the heavens."

Now the Egyptian word for "sky" or "heavens" is Horu. Before the establishment of the Egyptian dynasties and during the early part of the dynastic period, the name Horu was applied to the Sun-god (the eye of Horu) who was afterwards known as the elder Horus (Horu).

The changes which the word underwent in Egypt are clearly illustrated in the Yoruba language. From Horu is derived the word Oru(n) - the aspirate is elided and the final vowel nasalized -, "sky" or "heavens".

When the word was applied to the sun-god the following words were derived from it:

Oru(n) -> The Sun
Oru -> Heat, originally applied to the heat of the sun, and afterwards to heat in general.


It will be remembered that after the establishment of the Old Kingdom the faith of Osiris spread from Abydos in the Delta to other parts of Egypt, and was at one time universal in Egypt. Horu the sun-god was displaced by Horu (Horus) the Younger, son of Osiris. Later on Osiris, who was originally the god of the dead, was translated to the sky. Osiris became "the Lord of the Sky".

[A] The Yoruba beliefs of Omnipotence, Omniscience and Omnipresence may be traced to elements in the Osirian faith.

Olorun is Eleda "Creator"; so also was Osiris.

Olorun is the impartial Judge; men have to give an account of their doings in His judgment hall; men are commended to Him only by uprightness and goodness. All these are relics from the features connected with the Osirian judgment hall.

The importance of the god Thoth in connection with the judgment has its echo in the words O-ti-to, "truth" and e-to, "uprightness" or "justice" derived from his name.

[B] The ideas of the Yorubas about heaven are identical in many respects with those held by the worshippers of Osiris. For example, the Yorubas usually say Ole ti aiye ko gba, ti orun ko, "An idle man the world refuses a place and heaven also rejects." Compare this with the statement that the "Osirian heaven had no place for the idle and inactive."

[C] One of the titles of Osiris is "Lord of Zaddu," Zaddu being regarded as the place of the dead. The very word Zaddu in its modified form of Sadu is in use in Yoruba land, and it indicates the abode of the dead.

[D] One of the great objects of terror in early Yoruba land is what is known as Ohun Didu. Even a courageous animal like the lion is said to dread its approach.

Ohun Didu means "something which pertains to Didu," that is the Didu (or the black wooden image) of Osiris. Idols painted black, resembling the Didu of Osiris exist in Yoruba land.

[E] Another name for the abode of the dead where Osiris ruled was Alu. Here was the abode of the Osirified Bull. The Yoruba word for "bull" is malu, which is a contraction of omo-alu, a native of Alu (literally, a child of Alu). The word malu therefore contains an unmistakable reference to the worship of the Osirified Bull (osiris-apis) at Alu.

[F] One of the titles borne by Olorun is Olodumare. The meaning of the component parts are as follows: Ol'odu-ma-re.

The word Odu means "a chief", "an exalted personage". Olodu is its intensive form, indicating completeness.

Ma-re menas "I shall go" or "I must go"

The meaning of Olodumare then is "the Chief or the Exalted One to whom I must go or return".

Now according to Egyptian belief the highest reward which will be given to the good soul is to be permitted "to see God face to face and to lose itself in its ineffable glory".

A return to Osiris followed by identification with him is the desire of every devout worshipper of Osiris.

Olorun may only be reverenced and is hardly worshipped by the Yorubas, except by certain priests. It must be observed that although the faith of Osiris was widespread, his worship was almost entirely the monopoly of the priestly class.


It is not clear why the name of Osiris was not adopted and retained by the Yorubas as the name of their Supreme Deity. The name Osiris, however, is well known to the Yorubas who use it in the sense which shows that they are conversant with the myth of Osiris. The name survives in its original form of Osiri in the expression "gba osiri re" or "da osiri bo o" which means "to plot against an innocent person with a view to murdering him".


===
Esu (pronounced ay-shoo) <-> Set, Shu, Khepera
===

The conception of Esu involves a dualism in which Esu, the supreme power of evil, stands in opposition to Olorun, the most beneficent deity.

With the transference of worship from Olorun to the lesser deities, the antagonism is also transferred to these deities or Orisas.

The Yoruba saying "Esu ni ota orisa", "Esu is the enemy of Orisa" supports this.


Ancient Egyptian religion contains a dualism between Osiris and Set. "Osiris is the good power both morally and in the sphere of outward nature while Set is the embodiment of all that Egyptian regards as evil."

Just as the Yorubas say that "Esu is the enemy of Orisa" so writers on Ancient Egyptian Religion always say that "Set is the enemy of Osiris".

The opposition existed originally between the elder Horus and then between Osiris, and subsequently between the younger Horus on the one hand, and Set on the other hand.


There are three forms of the term orisa: "orisa", "oyisa" and "orise". The word "orisa" may be divided into two parts, ori and sa.

The first part is a modified form of Horu. For example the Egyptian god Horus-Bakhu "the god of the mountain" of the East, survives in Yoruba as Orisa-Beku, signifying "the god of the mountain".

The second part of the word, "se", is derived from Set (the final consonant is elided; this is customary in Yoruba language). The other form "sa" (pronounced 'sha') is the animal representative of Set.

The word ori-sa or ori-se, is therefore a modified form of the word "Horus-Set", the name of a double deity whose worship existed for centuries in Ancient Egypt.

It will be remembered that the double worship of Horus-Set came into existence when the crowns of the two kingdoms were united. Prior to the unification, Horus had become the title or part of the title of the deities worshipped in Southern Egypt, while Set the representative of the North, was widely worshipped there, but was regarded as the enemy of Horus.

The Yoruba migrated from one or more of certain districts in Ancient Egypt where the double worship of Horus-Set persisted.

Further evidence in support of the identification of Esu with Set is supplied by the fact that Esu is represented by a stone. Set was also represented by a stone. Esu is also represented by pillars; so also was Set.

According to Egyptian mythology there was a god named Shu who came forth from the primeval waters. He forcibly separated Sibu, the god of the earth, from Nuit, the goddess of the starry sky. He thus became the god of the space between earth and sky. His representation is that of a god in a kneeling posture holding up the sky with both hands.
-
Later on he became fused with Ra the sun-god, and thus became a sun-god. As a sun-god he was regarded as a beneficent deity and an impersonation of power. He was the life-giver, "The principle which animates matter". Through his benign influence, righteousness and truth reign.

At a later period, however, greater attention was paid to the scorching heat emanating from him than to the animating effect of his rays.

He thus became, as the god of the scorching sun-heat, the dread sun-god, most closely allied to Set; and the ass, the animal of Set, which is also called Shu, appears to have belonged to him as well.

The above considerations show that Shu is regarded both as a benevolent and as a malevolent deity.

The conception of Esu is a fusion of the conception of Set and that of Shu. The Yoruba word "su" (pronounced shu) means "to stretch out over something" and hence "to cover up, to darken".

For example, the Yoruba expression, "Orun su" means "the sky is covered up", that is, with clouds; in other words, clouds have stretched out over the sky. The Yoruba verb meaning "to fall" is "su-bu" (shu-bu), that is, stretch out over or cover up the place (bu - a place, both in Ancient Egyptian language and in Yoruba).

The Yoruba deity thus derives its name and character both from Set, the enemy of Osiris, and from Shu, the sun-god, originally regarded as a beneficent deity and afterwards as the dreaded sun-god closely allied to Set. The reason why Esu is credited with the opposite qualities of beneficence and malevolence thus becomes clear. His beneficence and malevolence are traceable to the conception of Shu, whilst his malevolence is also traceable to Set.


The origin and meaning of Elegbera or Elegbara can be explained when it is remembered that the Shu became a sun-god by being fused into the body of Ra. Ra is known by two other names. As he himself says: "I am Khepera in the morning, Ra at noon, and Tum in the evening". The name of Khepera was also applied to Shu. As a result of this, Elegbera, the alternative name for Esu, is derived from Khepera. Every consonant must have its own vowel in Yoruba, Kh in Khepera is therefore elided, leaving epera. The labial sound p does not exist in Yoruba, p is changed to gb, and the word becomes egbera. To signify fullness or completeness, the initial vowel is reduplicated with an l to give El'egbera


====================
Oba'ufon or Obalufon <-> Typhon
====================

- -
Obalufon II Mask, 11th-12th century., Copper.

This deity has been described as "the god of a prosperous empire", "the god of the peace of the kingdom", or "the Lord of Speech".

Oba'ufon has two parts.

Oba means "king" from Egyptian word "ba", which means "a soul" the king being regarded as the incarnate soul of the people.

'ufon or lufon comes from Typhon. The name Typhon must have been obtained by the Greeks from the Phoenicians, who identified Set with Ziphon, the god of storms. When the word was adopted by the Yorubas the initial consonant letter was elided in keeping with the rule that ebery noun in Yoruba must begin with a vowel.

The compound word Oba'ufon or Obalufon (since the placing of two vowels together is unusual in Yoruba, the letter l is inserted for euphony) is therefore another name for Esu and is derived from Typhon the Grecian name for Set or Sut. Obalufon possesses considerable power ("agbara" in Yoruba) because he is the same god as Set or Shu, who is regarded as an impersonation of power and who has been identified with Esu. During the last century in Yoruba land he was often propitiated with human sacrifices.

Human sacrifices were also linked with the name of Typhon in Ancient Egypt. According to Plutarch, "In Eileithapolis they used to burn living men to ashes ... calling them Typhoneian; and the ashes they winnowed away scattered. This, however, was done publicly and at on special time".


===
Ifa - the god of divination <-> Nefer
===

Derived directly from "nefer", the title of Osiris. Again, every Yoruba noun begins with a vowel. The initial consonant of a noun borrowed from another language either receives a vowel-prefix or is dropped if it is a weak nasal consonant.

nefer becomes 'efer or "ifa" since the sound "er" does not exist in Yoruba, and an "e" sound is represented by "i" in Yoruba.


=======
Obatala - Olorun's vicegerent <-> Khnum
=======

The name Obatala may be divided into three parts, namely, Oba-ti-ala.

Oba means king

ti means "of" or "pertaining to"

ala means "a boundary"


Obatala was formerly a Nile god. The word ala is a modified form of Iatur-au, Iaur-au the Ancient Egyptian name for the Nile. The Ancient Egyptian word becomes Iaro, Ialo in Coptic. Timon, the mathematician, used the very word ala in designating the sources of the Nile which he called Phi-ala, phi being the masculine article in Ancient Egyptian language, and ala being a modified form of Ialo.

Obatala then means "the King of the Nile" in a literal sense and "a Nile god" in a religious sense.

Obatala has been described as "the potter" (Orisa-popo, alamorere), and "Father Greybeard" (Obaba arugbo). The prototype of Obatala is undoubtedly Khnum, who was given titles identical with or similar to those of Obatala, in Egyptian mythology.


=======
Oduduwa - Odu-dua <-> Mut
=======

-
One of our mothers, an elderly priestess of the goddess Odua, Egbado-Yoruba

Odu - "exalted personage"
Dua - "the other world" from Ancient Egyptian word dua-t

Oduduwa means "Mistress of the Other World".

Another name of Oduduwa is Yemeu-u or Yemuhu which means "the living Mut" or "Mother Mut".

Ye is a West African word that means "the living one" or "Mother".

meu-u or muhu is a modified form of "Mut". The letter t is often dropped in Yoruba.


=====
Sango - Jakuta <-> Ptah
=====
Also known as Jakuta, "The Stone Thrower" or "The Fighter with Stone".

Ja-ku-ta means "the living soul (Khu) of Ptah". The Egyptian god Ptah was regarded as incorporate in a stone. The Yoruba word for stone is O-ku-ta, "the soul of Ptah".


====
Ogun <-> Khu
====
O-gu(n) is a modified form of the Egyptian word Khu. Horus, the patron god of several nomes in Ancient Egypt, was known by his worshippers as Khu. Ogun and Horus are both gods of iron and of war, the patron god of hunters and blacksmiths.

Horus has been identified with Nin-ip, the Babylonian sun-god of iron. Yoruba word for iron is i-rin, derived from Nin. Again the rule that every Yoruba word must begin with a vowel applies. Also the letter "r" is often substituted for the letter "n" in Yoruba and some other West African languages.


=========
O-l'-o-sa, "Owner of the lagoon". Sa in Ancient Egyptian language means a pond, a lake.


============
O-l'-o-ku(n), "Owner of the sea".Khu (Ancient Egyptian)== soul. Oku(n) is the Yoruba word for the sea, regarded as the origin of the watery vapor resembling the soul (Khu) of man.


=====
Da-da comes from Da, name of the Egyptian lion-god.


=======
O-shu(n), from Shu, Ancient Egyptian god.


==========
Aje Saluga, "The Living one of Salug", that is, the God of (Wealth) of Salug.


Read:

"The Religion of the Yorubas" by J. Olumide Lucas
"Religion of Ancient Egypt" by A. H. Sayce
"The Opening Up of Africa" by H. H. Johnston

ROSSIKE:


Dude you have no interest in knowledge. You couldn't even bother researching who Lucas was before writing your trash, and asking questions about him. He wrote his seminal work in 1948, probably before your dad was born. You are NOT a researcher into Yoruba precolonial history if you have not heard of or read Olumide Lucas. Here: educate yourself if possible: If it's the price of the book that's your problem tell us, we'll contribute for your learning. I've never seen anyone dismiss/critique a book they've never opened, except the irredeemably ignorant.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Religion-Yorubas-Olumide-Lucas/dp/0963878786

At least read the preview!!!!! Don't be a confirmation of the saying ''if you want to keep something away from black folk put it in a book!''

Wait what makes you think I haven't read his book? Must i believe in falsehood just because it is written? You are really gullible, quite easy to deceive into believing any bullshit even when it makes no sense
Would an Olumide Lucas know about my History better than the Kings and Priests I have interviewed myself? Or better than my Uncles who are initiated into various cults and privileged to much secrets? How come non of them, the custodians of our history and culture never mentioned egypt? I have also looked into the Egyptian "connection" and found only fraud

Any dumb fellow just wakes up due to unemployment and writes some shit and you believe, taking it all down without Scrutiny. ..
Didn't I tell you to tell me about Olumide Lucas, his origins and places his research took him to? ?? Is he an Isese adherent? Or A christian?

ROSSIKE:
Excerpts from leading works on the Yoruba - Egypt connection:

Read:

"The Religion of the Yorubas" by J. Olumide Lucas
"Religion of Ancient Egypt" by A. H. Sayce
"The Opening Up of Africa" by H. H. Johnston





The gradations of status recognized by the Yoruba as existing between their deities are as follows:

1. The Supreme Deity - Olorun.

2. The Major Orisas, of whom Esu and Ifa are the most important.

3. The Deified Spirits of Ancestors and other Spirits, of whom Oro, Eluku, Agemo and Egungun are the most important.

4. The Minor Orisas.


======
Olorun <-> Horu
======

Over and above all the other deities classified above and excelling them in power, honor and majesty is the Supreme Deity known as OLORUN. He is credited with omnipresence, omniscience, and omnipotence.

Olorun (pronounced Or-lor-roon) may be divided into two parts, viz., Ol'-orun. The word Orun means "sky," and the syllable Ol is only a reduplication of the initial letter of orun together with the letter "l" generally used to denote ownership or agency.

The word Olorun therefore means "Lord of the sky or of the heavens."

Now the Egyptian word for "sky" or "heavens" is Horu. Before the establishment of the Egyptian dynasties and during the early part of the dynastic period, the name Horu was applied to the Sun-god (the eye of Horu) who was afterwards known as the elder Horus (Horu).

The changes which the word underwent in Egypt are clearly illustrated in the Yoruba language. From Horu is derived the word Oru(n) - the aspirate is elided and the final vowel nasalized -, "sky" or "heavens".

When the word was applied to the sun-god the following words were derived from it:

Oru(n) -> The Sun
Oru -> Heat, originally applied to the heat of the sun, and afterwards to heat in general.


It will be remembered that after the establishment of the Old Kingdom the faith of Osiris spread from Abydos in the Delta to other parts of Egypt, and was at one time universal in Egypt. Horu the sun-god was displaced by Horu (Horus) the Younger, son of Osiris. Later on Osiris, who was originally the god of the dead, was translated to the sky. Osiris became "the Lord of the Sky".

[A] The Yoruba beliefs of Omnipotence, Omniscience and Omnipresence may be traced to elements in the Osirian faith.

Olorun is Eleda "Creator"; so also was Osiris.

Olorun is the impartial Judge; men have to give an account of their doings in His judgment hall; men are commended to Him only by uprightness and goodness. All these are relics from the features connected with the Osirian judgment hall.

The importance of the god Thoth in connection with the judgment has its echo in the words O-ti-to, "truth" and e-to, "uprightness" or "justice" derived from his name.

[B] The ideas of the Yorubas about heaven are identical in many respects with those held by the worshippers of Osiris. For example, the Yorubas usually say Ole ti aiye ko gba, ti orun ko, "An idle man the world refuses a place and heaven also rejects." Compare this with the statement that the "Osirian heaven had no place for the idle and inactive."

[C] One of the titles of Osiris is "Lord of Zaddu," Zaddu being regarded as the place of the dead. The very word Zaddu in its modified form of Sadu is in use in Yoruba land, and it indicates the abode of the dead.

[D] One of the great objects of terror in early Yoruba land is what is known as Ohun Didu. Even a courageous animal like the lion is said to dread its approach.

Ohun Didu means "something which pertains to Didu," that is the Didu (or the black wooden image) of Osiris. Idols painted black, resembling the Didu of Osiris exist in Yoruba land.

[E] Another name for the abode of the dead where Osiris ruled was Alu. Here was the abode of the Osirified Bull. The Yoruba word for "bull" is malu, which is a contraction of omo-alu, a native of Alu (literally, a child of Alu). The word malu therefore contains an unmistakable reference to the worship of the Osirified Bull (osiris-apis) at Alu.

[F] One of the titles borne by Olorun is Olodumare. The meaning of the component parts are as follows: Ol'odu-ma-re.

The word Odu means "a chief", "an exalted personage". Olodu is its intensive form, indicating completeness.

Ma-re menas "I shall go" or "I must go"

The meaning of Olodumare then is "the Chief or the Exalted One to whom I must go or return".

Now according to Egyptian belief the highest reward which will be given to the good soul is to be permitted "to see God face to face and to lose itself in its ineffable glory".

A return to Osiris followed by identification with him is the desire of every devout worshipper of Osiris.

Olorun may only be reverenced and is hardly worshipped by the Yorubas, except by certain priests. It must be observed that although the faith of Osiris was widespread, his worship was almost entirely the monopoly of the priestly class.


It is not clear why the name of Osiris was not adopted and retained by the Yorubas as the name of their Supreme Deity. The name Osiris, however, is well known to the Yorubas who use it in the sense which shows that they are conversant with the myth of Osiris. The name survives in its original form of Osiri in the expression "gba osiri re" or "da osiri bo o" which means "to plot against an innocent person with a view to murdering him".


===
Esu (pronounced ay-shoo) <-> Set, Shu, Khepera
===

The conception of Esu involves a dualism in which Esu, the supreme power of evil, stands in opposition to Olorun, the most beneficent deity.

With the transference of worship from Olorun to the lesser deities, the antagonism is also transferred to these deities or Orisas.

The Yoruba saying "Esu ni ota orisa", "Esu is the enemy of Orisa" supports this.


Ancient Egyptian religion contains a dualism between Osiris and Set. "Osiris is the good power both morally and in the sphere of outward nature while Set is the embodiment of all that Egyptian regards as evil."

Just as the Yorubas say that "Esu is the enemy of Orisa" so writers on Ancient Egyptian Religion always say that "Set is the enemy of Osiris".

The opposition existed originally between the elder Horus and then between Osiris, and subsequently between the younger Horus on the one hand, and Set on the other hand.


There are three forms of the term orisa: "orisa", "oyisa" and "orise". The word "orisa" may be divided into two parts, ori and sa.

The first part is a modified form of Horu. For example the Egyptian god Horus-Bakhu "the god of the mountain" of the East, survives in Yoruba as Orisa-Beku, signifying "the god of the mountain".

The second part of the word, "se", is derived from Set (the final consonant is elided; this is customary in Yoruba language). The other form "sa" (pronounced 'sha') is the animal representative of Set.

The word ori-sa or ori-se, is therefore a modified form of the word "Horus-Set", the name of a double deity whose worship existed for centuries in Ancient Egypt.

It will be remembered that the double worship of Horus-Set came into existence when the crowns of the two kingdoms were united. Prior to the unification, Horus had become the title or part of the title of the deities worshipped in Southern Egypt, while Set the representative of the North, was widely worshipped there, but was regarded as the enemy of Horus.

The Yoruba migrated from one or more of certain districts in Ancient Egypt where the double worship of Horus-Set persisted.

Further evidence in support of the identification of Esu with Set is supplied by the fact that Esu is represented by a stone. Set was also represented by a stone. Esu is also represented by pillars; so also was Set.

According to Egyptian mythology there was a god named Shu who came forth from the primeval waters. He forcibly separated Sibu, the god of the earth, from Nuit, the goddess of the starry sky. He thus became the god of the space between earth and sky. His representation is that of a god in a kneeling posture holding up the sky with both hands.
-
Later on he became fused with Ra the sun-god, and thus became a sun-god. As a sun-god he was regarded as a beneficent deity and an impersonation of power. He was the life-giver, "The principle which animates matter". Through his benign influence, righteousness and truth reign.

At a later period, however, greater attention was paid to the scorching heat emanating from him than to the animating effect of his rays.

He thus became, as the god of the scorching sun-heat, the dread sun-god, most closely allied to Set; and the ass, the animal of Set, which is also called Shu, appears to have belonged to him as well.

The above considerations show that Shu is regarded both as a benevolent and as a malevolent deity.

The conception of Esu is a fusion of the conception of Set and that of Shu. The Yoruba word "su" (pronounced shu) means "to stretch out over something" and hence "to cover up, to darken".

For example, the Yoruba expression, "Orun su" means "the sky is covered up", that is, with clouds; in other words, clouds have stretched out over the sky. The Yoruba verb meaning "to fall" is "su-bu" (shu-bu), that is, stretch out over or cover up the place (bu - a place, both in Ancient Egyptian language and in Yoruba).

The Yoruba deity thus derives its name and character both from Set, the enemy of Osiris, and from Shu, the sun-god, originally regarded as a beneficent deity and afterwards as the dreaded sun-god closely allied to Set. The reason why Esu is credited with the opposite qualities of beneficence and malevolence thus becomes clear. His beneficence and malevolence are traceable to the conception of Shu, whilst his malevolence is also traceable to Set.


The origin and meaning of Elegbera or Elegbara can be explained when it is remembered that the Shu became a sun-god by being fused into the body of Ra. Ra is known by two other names. As he himself says: "I am Khepera in the morning, Ra at noon, and Tum in the evening". The name of Khepera was also applied to Shu. As a result of this, Elegbera, the alternative name for Esu, is derived from Khepera. Every consonant must have its own vowel in Yoruba, Kh in Khepera is therefore elided, leaving epera. The labial sound p does not exist in Yoruba, p is changed to gb, and the word becomes egbera. To signify fullness or completeness, the initial vowel is reduplicated with an l to give El'egbera


====================
Oba'ufon or Obalufon <-> Typhon
====================

- -
Obalufon II Mask, 11th-12th century., Copper.

This deity has been described as "the god of a prosperous empire", "the god of the peace of the kingdom", or "the Lord of Speech".

Oba'ufon has two parts.

Oba means "king" from Egyptian word "ba", which means "a soul" the king being regarded as the incarnate soul of the people.

'ufon or lufon comes from Typhon. The name Typhon must have been obtained by the Greeks from the Phoenicians, who identified Set with Ziphon, the god of storms. When the word was adopted by the Yorubas the initial consonant letter was elided in keeping with the rule that ebery noun in Yoruba must begin with a vowel.

The compound word Oba'ufon or Obalufon (since the placing of two vowels together is unusual in Yoruba, the letter l is inserted for euphony) is therefore another name for Esu and is derived from Typhon the Grecian name for Set or Sut. Obalufon possesses considerable power ("agbara" in Yoruba) because he is the same god as Set or Shu, who is regarded as an impersonation of power and who has been identified with Esu. During the last century in Yoruba land he was often propitiated with human sacrifices.

Human sacrifices were also linked with the name of Typhon in Ancient Egypt. According to Plutarch, "In Eileithapolis they used to burn living men to ashes ... calling them Typhoneian; and the ashes they winnowed away scattered. This, however, was done publicly and at on special time".


===
Ifa - the god of divination <-> Nefer
===

Derived directly from "nefer", the title of Osiris. Again, every Yoruba noun begins with a vowel. The initial consonant of a noun borrowed from another language either receives a vowel-prefix or is dropped if it is a weak nasal consonant.

nefer becomes 'efer or "ifa" since the sound "er" does not exist in Yoruba, and an "e" sound is represented by "i" in Yoruba.


=======
Obatala - Olorun's vicegerent <-> Khnum
=======

The name Obatala may be divided into three parts, namely, Oba-ti-ala.

Oba means king

ti means "of" or "pertaining to"

ala means "a boundary"


Obatala was formerly a Nile god. The word ala is a modified form of Iatur-au, Iaur-au the Ancient Egyptian name for the Nile. The Ancient Egyptian word becomes Iaro, Ialo in Coptic. Timon, the mathematician, used the very word ala in designating the sources of the Nile which he called Phi-ala, phi being the masculine article in Ancient Egyptian language, and ala being a modified form of Ialo.

Obatala then means "the King of the Nile" in a literal sense and "a Nile god" in a religious sense.

Obatala has been described as "the potter" (Orisa-popo, alamorere), and "Father Greybeard" (Obaba arugbo). The prototype of Obatala is undoubtedly Khnum, who was given titles identical with or similar to those of Obatala, in Egyptian mythology.


=======
Oduduwa - Odu-dua <-> Mut
=======

-
One of our mothers, an elderly priestess of the goddess Odua, Egbado-Yoruba

Odu - "exalted personage"
Dua - "the other world" from Ancient Egyptian word dua-t

Oduduwa means "Mistress of the Other World".

Another name of Oduduwa is Yemeu-u or Yemuhu which means "the living Mut" or "Mother Mut".

Ye is a West African word that means "the living one" or "Mother".

meu-u or muhu is a modified form of "Mut". The letter t is often dropped in Yoruba.


=====
Sango - Jakuta <-> Ptah
=====
Also known as Jakuta, "The Stone Thrower" or "The Fighter with Stone".

Ja-ku-ta means "the living soul (Khu) of Ptah". The Egyptian god Ptah was regarded as incorporate in a stone. The Yoruba word for stone is O-ku-ta, "the soul of Ptah".


====
Ogun <-> Khu
====
O-gu(n) is a modified form of the Egyptian word Khu. Horus, the patron god of several nomes in Ancient Egypt, was known by his worshippers as Khu. Ogun and Horus are both gods of iron and of war, the patron god of hunters and blacksmiths.

Horus has been identified with Nin-ip, the Babylonian sun-god of iron. Yoruba word for iron is i-rin, derived from Nin. Again the rule that every Yoruba word must begin with a vowel applies. Also the letter "r" is often substituted for the letter "n" in Yoruba and some other West African languages.


=========
O-l'-o-sa, "Owner of the lagoon". Sa in Ancient Egyptian language means a pond, a lake.


============
O-l'-o-ku(n), "Owner of the sea".Khu (Ancient Egyptian)== soul. Oku(n) is the Yoruba word for the sea, regarded as the origin of the watery vapor resembling the soul (Khu) of man.


=====
Da-da comes from Da, name of the Egyptian lion-god.


=======
O-shu(n), from Shu, Ancient Egyptian god.


==========
Aje Saluga, "The Living one of Salug", that is, the God of (Wealth) of Salug.


Read:

"The Religion of the Yorubas" by J. Olumide Lucas
"Religion of Ancient Egypt" by A. H. Sayce
"The Opening Up of Africa" by H. H. Johnston

what's all this bullshit now? Please quit this nonsense it's an insult. ..
Obatala God of the Nile Esu enemy of Orisa
Not only do your sources lack sound knowledge in yoruba language, they display ignorance in our Spirituality as well
Please if you want to learn about the yoruba spirituality go to the right place and right people

What's all this?

macof:


Wait what makes you think I haven't read his book? Must i believe in falsehood just because it is written? You are really gullible, quite easy to deceive into believing any bullshit even when it makes no sense

You are a liar. You've not read that book. You think we're kids here?

Would an Olumide Lucas know about my History better than the Kings and Priests I have interviewed myself? Or better than my Uncles who are initiated into various cults and privileged to much secrets? How come non of them, the custodians of our history and culture never mentioned egypt? I have also looked into the Egyptian "connection" and found only fraud

Any dumb fellow just wakes up due to unemployment and writes some shit and you believe, taking it all down without Scrutiny. ..
Didn't I tell you to tell me about Olumide Lucas, his origins and places his research took him to? ?? Is he an Isese adherent? Or A christian?

I thought you said you'd read his book? You would know the answers to those questions if you had because he reveals them. Liar. Just save your lies for some other gullible fellows. Where is your research work? Where are your findings? You interviewed kings, queens, priests and initiates, and kept your findings in your pocket? Publish your data or STFU. So far all we have from you is loud bombast and posturing. Show us your work plus names, sources, and methodology or get lost. In fact don't bother cos they'll definitely be lies too.

ROSSIKE:
You are a liar. You've not read that book. You think we're kids here?I thought you said you'd read his book? You would know the answers to those questions if you had because he reveals them. Liar. Just save your lies for some other gullible fellows. Where is your research work? Where are your findings? You interviewed kings, queens, priests and initiates, and kept your findings in your pocket? Publish your data or STFU. So far all we have from you is loud bombast and posturing. Show us your work plus names, sources, and methodology or get lost. In fact don't bother cos they'll definitely be lies too.

;Dyou really have bad comprehension skills
Pls read my words again and don't jump to quick conclusion
Too hilarious next time try asking for clarification

I am not an author, my father learnt history orally, I have learnt history mostly in the same manner as well, that I can trace my ancestral lineage back 6 generations(can you? ), that I know how my great Patriarch got to our present home is by Listening to the right people and knowing what makes them the right people(is Olumide - an uninitiated - the right person? ) Others should do same and stop waiting for spoon feeding
I know how books from questionable authors have misled me in the past

I am not a jobless unemployed fellow who would jump to writing what he knows nothing about for money. Why would you even think everyone is interested in writing books?
It's obvious your sources fall in that category
I mean who says Obatala is a river God and stil claims authority on Yoruba origins?

When you have real evidence of Egyptian origin for the yorubas call me

You don't expect me to insult my ancestors by calling them what they were not

Well, for what it is worth, it is important to point out that accomplished mainstream Yoruba scholars of Yoruba religion and sociology do not agree with Archdeacon Lucas' conclusions.

Scholars like Dr J Omosade Awolalu and Dr O. Ogunba, both of whom are PhDs in the field of African Religions, among others have expressed their disagreement (See Awolalu's 'Yoruba Beliefs and Sacrificial Rites' and Ogunba's PhD thesis 'Ritual Drama of the Ijebu People'). Many others have simply ignored Lucas' contribution as not deserving a refutation. Ogunba even said of Lucas' book that it contains 'mistakes, monstrous and disconcerting' and that they 'are more of ignorance than of patriotism'.

When I tried to use an online etymology dictionary to check the meanings of some of the Ancient Egyptian words used by Lucas in his anslysis, I found that a good number of them don't really mean what Lucas thought they meant...which leads one to wonder how well he knew Ancient Egyptian. Did he know enough to make scholarly-sound comparisons between Ancient Egyptian and Yoruba? It doesn't really seem so.

Lucas' book came out in 1948. That's a really long time ago, and I would imagine that some (if not much) of the information in it is already outdated. Linguists, anthropologists and historians have been busy since then and a lot of information has been unearthed since then that has turned African Studies on its head. No top-rate college anywhere in the world that offers courses in African Studies will recommend a book written in 1948.

But there is a little something that bugs me about this tendency to use arguments such as this one to make the claim that various sub-Saharan cultures have their roots in Ancient Egypt: Assuming Ancient Egypt and West Africa did share cultural and linguistic emblems, why do we conclude that it was us, West Africans who got them from Egypt? Why can't the argument be made the other way - that it was the Egyptians who got those cultural emblems from us?

After all, we now have ample evidence that people from Inner Africa did migrate towards the Nile. We can be sure they took some of the customs and practices of the peoples of Inner Africa with them. Isn't it time to start talking about what sub-Saharan peoples (including West Africans) gave to Egypt and retire this debate about what Egypt gave to West Africans. The former seems more likely, given what scholars know today.

MarieSucre:
Good! its confirmed you're not a child so away with the childish responses. Evidence please and no more if that evasive nonsense.

God, I ve been dealing with a toddler,what a waste of time...no wonder he kept asking brewing questions

xage:


God, I ve been dealing with a toddler,what a waste of time...no wonder he kept asking brewing questions

Its a 'she' not a 'he' and what does 'asking brewing questions mean?'. Should 'brewing' be used to qualify that verb? especially within this context? That's by the way and I'm a patient person. so dear sir, provide the evidence and stop with this nonsense or I shall conclude you never had any evidence in the first place and were just talking for talking sake.

macof:
When you have real evidence of Egyptian origin for the yorubas call me

You don't expect me to insult my ancestors by calling them what they were not

When you stop telling lies and pretending to be someone you are not, wake us up. zzzzzzzzzzzz

ROSSIKE:


When you stop telling lies and pretending to be someone you are not, wake us up. zzzzzzzzzzzz

Oh now so am pretending to be yoruba

MarieSucre:
Its a 'she' not a 'he' and what does 'asking brewing questions mean?'. Should 'brewing' be used to qualify that verb? especially within this context? That's by the way and I'm a patient person. so dear sir, provide the evidence and stop with this nonsense or I shall conclude you never had any evidence in the first place and were just talking for talking sake.

I like your courage and I will reward you by doing for you what you could have done by yourself, before I do d research on your behalf,how much will you pay me ma?

However, I'm from the middle_belt too

xage:


I like your courage and I will reward you by doing for you what you could have done by yourself, before I do d research on your behalf,how much will you pay me ma?

However, I'm from the middle_belt too

More irrelevant discourse. I'm happy to know you're from the middle belt too. where? I hope you'll answer this question as well as the other.

MarieSucre:
More irrelevant discourse. I'm happy to know you're from the middle belt too. where? I hope you'll answer this question as well as the other.

Yagba East,as for the research,you havnt mentioned how much you've got

xage:


Yagba East,as for the research,you havnt mentioned how much you've got

Go back to the origin of this question line. I commented on the moors and also how the Europeans have also being ahead of us in so many aspects. And YOU quoted me. YOUR quote did not provide any counter point but resorted to ad hominems. That is when I asked YOU to provide evidence for YOUR claims. Now pls do the needful and provide the evidence. Otan!