Syncan:
Ubenedictus may continue expounding on allusions and prefigures used by the apostles to teach. For me, The apostles, obeying Jesus baptized with water and the Holy Spirit's presence was made manifest. In this baptism I die with Christ and rise with Him a new man. I am born again.

Chai. Diarisgud ooo, see Syncan, avoiding action, pushing Ubenedictus into line of fire and using him as a human shield LOL

Syncan you wont get off that easily, please throw light ON EACH of the following, then compare and contrast them:
Moses baptism, John baptism and Jesus baptism

Have a go, dont be shy.

Scholar8200:
I didnt say he said so either. Neither does Acts suggests Peter had ended all he had to say! Acts 10:44 shows that the event occurred while Peter was still speaking!
That qualifier is not in the Bible. Acts 11:14 shows that Peter's terms of reference was to preach which he indeed started doing. First you said they were chosen to be saved, now you say they were already accepted! Pray, Peter did not go there to assure/flatter them! He went to ," tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved."(Acts 11:14)
Hear Acts 10:44
While Peter yet spake these words... Which? the one recorded from verse 34-43
Now you rephrase the Word to justify your church's tradition! They were soundly converted when they believed and God Who saw their hearts responded to their faith that came by hearing!

For the records"

Acts 11:13,14
13 and he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

It matters not how you twist and turn, the above still tells you what concludes Peter's mission to them. It is in baptism that they now died with Christ and rose new men. "accepted" was used by peter and not me, so do you understand it as being saved?

Syncan:



Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

It matters not how you twist and turn, the above still tells you what concludes Peter's mission to them. It is in baptism that they now died with Christ and rose new men. "accepted" was used by peter and not me, so do you understand it as being saved?

When did this take place, before or after baptism:

Acts 15:8,9

And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

What else does salvation do in us? Note that they were purified not by baptism but by faith (which came by hearing).

And as to the death and resurrection with Christ, did that happen at baptism or when the Spirit came and their hearts were purified?

1 Corinth 12:13
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Baptism was the outward testimony of the afore-stated which occurred when they believed!

brocab:
Babies can't sin-and they can't be baptised for the remissions of sins, either.
For all have sinned, those who believe have fallen short of sin.

So when you were born-what was your sin, that your parents had to have you baptised as a child at birth.And who spoke for you, to claim you are saved, and answer the question unto whom are you saved?

Psalm 51:5 states that we all come into the world as sinners: “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.”. It is left for you to tell yourself the truth if infants have come into the world. Incase you don't know why this is so, then read the below:

Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned. Rom.5:12.

MuttleyLaff:

Chai. Diarisgud ooo, see Syncan, avoiding action, pushing Ubenedictus into line of fire and using him as a human shield LOL

Syncan you wont get off that easily, please throw light ON EACH of the following, then compare and contrast them:
Moses baptism, John baptism and Jesus baptism

Have a go, dont be shy.

Sorry oga, If Ubenedictus has decided to go into what is obviously unneccesary to me in this discuss, I am not. That's my stand.

Scholar8200:
When did this take place, before or after baptism:

Acts 15:8,9

And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

What else does salvation do in us? Note that they were purified not by baptism but by faith (which came by hearing).

And as to the death and resurrection with Christ, did that happen at baptism or when the Spirit came and their hearts were purified?

1 Corinth 12:13
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Baptism was the outward testimony of the afore-stated which occurred when they believed!

You keep ignoring relevant passages of scripture, the fact that the Holy Spirit fell on them was a surprise to Peter, for him it was water first before the Spirit.

Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Again he doesn't mince words, he actually explains what happens at the moment of water baptism, that it isn't to cleanse the body, but an appeal...

1Pet.3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

All these because Peter believed in Jesus own words.

Mk.16:16.Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

If you say you believe, you must accept baptism, simple. And this is what the apostles did in obedience to the Lord.

MuttleyLaff:
You started "Whatever Peter said" with "Peter says "baptism save you now" but you would rather teach against scripture that it is obsolate!"
https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/7#35065244

Ubenedictus what saves you?
Is it baptism of water or baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire

you are trying to create a dichotomy. Try again.

Syncan:



Ubenedictus may continue expounding on allusions and prefigures used by the apostles to teach. For me, The apostles, obeying Jesus baptized with water and the Holy Spirit's presence was made manifest. In this baptism I die with Christ and rise with Him a new man. I am born again.

lol,

trying to discuss topology with someone who denies the plain words of scriptures and say baptism is done for ignorant and sentimental reasons when Scripture says it is effective can truly be a waste of time.

I have made the noise let me see his response.

MuttleyLaff:
See yourself now, what about before He died and resurrected?

the merits of Jesus death and resurrection spills both forward and backward into history, are you unaware of this?

This is interesting, care to reproduced verbatim, word for word, chapter by chapter, verse for verse, where Jesus commanded baptism, obviously you meant "water baptism" but you're being coy to write it out in full

matt 28 :19

Go therefore make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the father, and of the Son and of the holyspirit

On the contrary, I am not brother. Dont know why you find that hard to know and get that I am not


Upon all the "I'll not do your work for you" gra-gra, see yourself now

is this your response?

brocab:
Babies can't sin-and they can't be baptised for the remissions of sins, either.
For all have sinned, those who believe have fallen short of sin.

So when you were born-what was your sin, that your parents had to have you baptised as a child at birth.And who spoke for you, to claim you are saved, and answer the question unto whom are you saved?

read your bible.

Ps 51: 7

True I was born guilty, a sinner even as my mother concieved me

don't you just love the bible?

So does this mean you too haven't the slightest Idea about the infant story either?
Are you Catholic's to dumb, to even figure out what Luke 18:15-16 had said.
Psalms 51:5 states that we all come into the world as sinners. and in sin my mother conceived me.
Ezekiel 18:20 "The souls who sin shall die-The son not bear the guilt of his father, nor shall the father bear the guilt of the son, the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon Himself.
Which means-we are not accountable for our mothers or fathers sinful nature, but our own.

We may be born into a sinful world, but as infants we haven't any sensibility to know what sin is. And no-parent would expect any infant to take on their sinful burdens. Would you allow your child to take on yours? Being a Catholic I suppose you would.
Allowing your child to be baptised at a early age, and not allowing your child to make their own decisions.

Matthew 18:3 "Jesus said: assuredly I say to you unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:4-Luke 18:15-16 "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

I am not expecting you to understand, But Jesus was inferring in scripture, no-one can enter into heaven with sin.
Revelation 21:27 " said: nothing unclean can enter into heaven.
Before Jesus had even laid His hands upon those children He said, let the infants and the little children come to Me, for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
In other words, infants and children at a certain age are sinless.
Read Ezekiel again The soul who sins shall die. And the SON shall not Bear his fathers sinful nature.

Now go back to your bibles and read it, as Jesus had written It. And still we won't find infant baptism.

Syncan:

Psalm 51:5 states that we all come into the world as sinners: “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.”. It is left for you to tell yourself the truth if infants have come into the world. Incase you don't know why this is so, then read the below:

Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned. Rom.5:12.

MuttleyLaff:
What I said there wasnt happenstance, you have chosen not to add the connection to the post I made that comment to.

I gave that remark when you posted and asked:

"Your point is that Baptism saves, but not water baptism.

What then is the use of water baptism?"

you simply said, water baptism was obsolate and those who do it, do so out of ignorance and sentiment! Abi no be so?

And you were baptised into Mary, as sinners do.
Read you bible. From Psalms 51:5 Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul who sins shall die-The son shall not bear the punishment for his fathers iniquity, nor his father shall bear the punishment for his sons iniquity.
Meaning to say: The son don't take on the responsibility of his father or his mothers sins, but his own.
Kings 4:6 "The fathers shall not be put to death for his son, nor the son shall not be put to death for his father, both have their own sins.

So you see a infant does not have that same sinful nature as his parents, he may have been born into a sinners world, but a infant, as the Lord tells says, infants and little children are such as the kingdom of heaven.

Proving the child is still sinless in actions-without any sensibility to know sin..
So this shows you who have been baptised as a infant, was not baptised for your own remissions of sins, But the parents.
And if that's the case, then no-baby has been baptised into Christ.

Ubenedictus:


read your bible.

Ps 51: 7

True I was born guilty, a sinner even as my mother concieved me

don't you just love the bible?

brocab:
So does this mean you too haven't the slightest Idea about the infant story either?
Are you Catholic's to dumb, to even figure out what Luke 18:15-16 had said.
Psalms 51:5 states that we all come into the world as sinners. and in sin my mother conceived me.
Ezekiel 18:20 "The souls who sin shall die-The son not bear the guilt of his father, nor shall the father bear the guilt of the son, the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon Himself.
Which means-we are not accountable for our mothers or fathers sinful nature, but our own.

We may be born into a sinful world, but as infants we haven't any sensibility to know what sin is. And no-parent would expect any infant to take on their sinful burdens. Would you allow your child to take on yours? Being a Catholic I suppose you would.
Allowing your child to be baptised at a early age, and not allowing your child to make their own decisions.

Matthew 18:3 "Jesus said: assuredly I say to you unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:4-Luke 18:15-16 "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

I am not expecting you to understand, But Jesus was inferring in scripture, no-one can enter into heaven with sin.
Revelation 21:27 " said: nothing unclean can enter into heaven.
Before Jesus had even laid His hands upon those children He said, let the infants and the little children come to Me, for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
In other words, infants and children at a certain age are sinless.
Read Ezekiel again The soul who sins shall die. And the SON shall not Bear his fathers sinful nature.

Now go back to your bibles and read it, as Jesus had written It. And still we won't find infant baptism.

Arrogant, insultive, talkative yet very ignorant. Despite given you a precise hint with Rom.5:12, you still can't understand can you, yet had the effontery to come here talking off point.

Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned.

Read the above passage until it makes sense to you, however if it is still difficult for you to comprehend, then look at the one below for explanation:

1Cor. 15:22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive..

Are infants excluded from "all" in the scripture passages above?

Let's be very careful here.Our opinion and thoughts are not important here but rather what the bible says on this matter.Baptism is as important as any commandment in the Bible.It was part of the great commission where Christ command that we should PREACH the Gospel and whoever BELIEVE and is BAPTIZED will be save (Matt 28:19;Mark 16:15,16 etc).Most people will agree with me that believe,repentance,confessing Christ etc are essential for salvation.But most people always have issue when it comes to baptism which appear simultaneously with these commands.Read what Apostle Paul wrote in Roman 6:3,4: ''Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZE into Jesus Christ were BAPTIZED into his death? Therefore we are BURIED with him by BAPTISM into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. .When the church started in Act chapter,do you not read of baptism being commanded by Peter to those who asked to be save? Acts 2:38-42 reads :''Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and be BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION (FORGIVENESS) of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly RECEIVED his word were BAPTIZED: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.


There are numerous examples and instructions in support of baptism in the new testament.I should stop here for now not to have a lengthy poste,but read all the conversions (People becoming christian) in the book of Acts,and you come to realize the importance of this commandment. People of today disregard this just because of their personal view or of being thought differently in their respectively denomination by religious leaders.Whatever we say especially in this discussion of baptism if not supported in the bible should be disregarded.Let us base whatever we say,do on the Bible

OLAADEGBU:


Romans 5:1; Ephesians 2:8-9 and Acts 2:38; 22:16; 1 Peter 3:21

Saved by faith:

"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1)

"For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Saved by baptism:

"Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).

"And now why do you tarry? Arise, and be baptised, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord" (Acts 22:16).

"The like figure whereunto even baptism does also now saves us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 3:21).

I guess you need water baptism to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Nobody should insult any person here.Let's be mature.If you don't agree with a poste does not mean you must take 'arm' against the poster.Here is my take.Preaching,baptism,believe,confession etc appear in the same portion of the Bible, why do you have issue with only baptism.This is a very dangerous way of interpreting the Bible.Why take away baptism but accept others? Was baptism not commanded in the great commission.

See the importance of baptism (go through these passages in you free time,they are quite much).If you object to any,do it objectionably.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Atc 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act_2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act_8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act_8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Act_8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act_8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be[b] baptized[/b]?
Act_8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Act_9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
Act_10:47 Can any man forbid wate[/b]r, that these should not be [b]baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act_10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Act_11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act_16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
Act_16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Act_18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.
Act_19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act_19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized [/b]with the [b]baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act_19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act_22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Rom_6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
1Co_1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co_1:14 I thank God that I baptized [/b]none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co_1:15 Lest any should say that I had [b]baptized in mine own name.
1Co_1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co_10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co_12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co_15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Gal_3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Rom_6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Eph_4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Col_2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Pe_3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


How can someone still go against these and advise or speak on God' behalf to say baptism is not important to one'salvation.That will amount to total disregard of God's commandment.

Ubenedictus:
you simply said, water baptism was obsolate and those who do it, do so out of ignorance and sentiment! Abi no be so?

Ubenedictus, you know how we got to me making that remark
I didnt abracadabra pluck it out of the air and just blurt out that truth like the manner you're twisting and icorrectly making it out that way
Dont you get tired of this Ubenedictus? You've had a field day of straw-man at my expense

In my next post, lets (i.e. italo, Syncan, you, Ubenedictus and I) put this matter to rest once and for all.
You and italo are going to love it. Syncan upon reading it, as usual might stay aloof
You better go put on a gum shield Ubenedictus, as the glove is coming off now.

I have countlessly said and gave examples,
that baptism is not an exclusive use meaning "water baptism" or only to be associated with "physical water baptism"
Forewarned is forearmed. I am taking no prisoners, so dont say there were no warnings

Scholar8200:
Saved and remain with sins is like saying healed and remained with the sickness.

Acts 22:16
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Ananias gave this exhortation to Paul but it did not mean Paul had not done them! He had been calling on the Name of the Lord with fasting (3 days)prior to this time and the Lord confirmed this! (and Romans 10:13 says For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.)
Besides, your perspective subtly changes that verse to read thus: "arise, and be baptized 'to' wash away your sins!" This is not true!

Each clause in that verse stands on its own and this view is confirmed by scripture. If you claim that wash away thy sins depends on baptism then I can logically say he cant call on the Lord except his sins are washed away , but the Lord Himself confirmed that Paul had been praying when Ananias was sent!

Just like it happened to Isaiah, Paul's encounter with Jesus was a time of both cleansing and commissioning:

Acts 26:14-18 confirms this. In fact, by the time Ananias was sent to Paul the Lord called him a chosen vessel (meaning he had been purged and was fit for the Master's use)

Acts 9:15

15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

If Paul had been baptized with his sins washed away, invoking the name of the Lord, Jesus would not have told him to do them again through Ananias (as things he must do) Acts 22:10.

Baptism is done, invoking the name of the Lord and it washes away sins. They are one event, not separate.

It makes no sense to tell Paul "wash away your sins" alone.

And Paul had been chosen before he gave his life to Christ.

Acts 22:14. - Appointed for chosen, A.V.; to know for that thou shouldest know, A.V.; to see the Righteous One for see that Just One, A.V.; to hear a voice from for shouldest hear the voice of, A.V. Hath appointed thee; προεχειρίσατό σε, a word found in the New Testament only here and in Acts 26:16, and in Acts 3:20 (R.T.). In classical Greek it means mostly "to get anything ready beforehand;"

Jesus also chose Matthew when he was deep in his sins. Nothing strange.

So all your weak excuses come crumbling down.

Paul believed, but he still had to be baptized and have his sins washed away, invoking the Lord (one event - exactly as baptism has always been done in Christianity). When you try to separate them, you appear to mean that baptism is just to pour water on a person.

italo:
If Paul had been baptized with his sins washed away, invoking the name of the Lord, Jesus would not have told him to do them again through Ananias (as things he must do) Acts 22:10.

Baptism is done, invoking the name of the Lord and it washes away sins. They are one event, not separate.

It makes no sense to tell Paul "wash away your sins" alone.

And Paul had been chosen before he gave his life to Christ.

Acts 22:14. - Appointed for chosen, A.V.; to know for that thou shouldest know, A.V.; to see the Righteous One for see that Just One, A.V.; to hear a voice from for shouldest hear the voice of, A.V. Hath appointed thee; προεχειρίσατό σε, a word found in the New Testament only here and in Acts 26:16, and in Acts 3:20 (R.T.). In classical Greek it means mostly "to get anything ready beforehand;"

Jesus also chose Matthew when he was deep in his sins. Nothing strange.

So all your weak excuses come crumbling down.

Paul believed, but he still had to be baptized and have his sins washed away, invoking the Lord (one event - exactly as baptism has always been done in Christianity). When you try to separate them, you appear to mean that baptism is just to pour water on a person.

Alarm bell triggered...
What does the bolded mean and especially "still had to be baptized have his sins washed away, invoking the Lord"?
What is invoking the Lord in "baptized have his sins washed away, invoking the Lord" about?
Is there and has there always been only one baptism in Christianity?

MuttleyLaff:
I earlier alluded to similar with the below repost

Water baptism is a shadow of the real deal,

It is less powerful than the real baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire.

Like tithing, it is past its "best before" date but people still use tithing as well as water baptism for sentimental or ignorance reason.

God has no problem with both, as that's the level such presently are.

Am more concerned with people such as kei144 trying to twist John 3:5 has having to do with physical or literal water baptism, which obviously it doesn't.
https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-baptism/1#34854769

Ubenedictus:
you simply said, water baptism was obsolate and those who do it, do so out of ignorance and sentiment! Abi no be so?

MuttleyLaff:
Ubenedictus, you know how we got to me making that remark
I didnt abracadabra pluck it out of the air and just blurt out that truth like the manner you're twisting and icorrectly making it out that way
Dont you get tired of this Ubenedictus? You've had a field day of straw-man at my expense

Lol...the above is a desperate man trying to disown his own heresy after realizing how stupidd and grevious it actually is...but pride will not let him deny it outright, so he tries to blame Ubenedictus for it...Ubenedictus only repeated what you said!

MuttleyLaff:

In my next post, lets (i.e. italo, Syncan, you, Ubenedictus and I) put this matter to rest once and for all.
You and italo are going to love it. Syncan upon reading it, as usual might stay aloof
You better go put on a gum shield Ubenedictus, as the glove is coming off now.
I have countlessly said and gave examples,
that baptism is not an exclusive use meaning "water baptism" or only to be associated with "physical water baptism"
Forewarned is forearmed. I am taking no prisoners, so dont say there were no warnings

Another diversion from his heresy. Anyway, when you try to put it to rest, tell us:

1. What is the effect of baptism with water?
2. At what point did baptism with water become expired? (give evidence from scripture)
3. What did Peter mean by "that water" in 1Pet3:20,21?

MuttleyLaff:
Alarm bell triggered...
What does the bolded mean and especially "still had to be baptized have his sins washed away, invoking the Lord"?
What is invoking the Lord in "baptized have his sins washed away, invoking the Lord" about?
Is there and has there always been only one baptism in Christianity?

I was talking to someone with a different idea of the events than you have.

He believes that one is saved, with their sins washed away when they believe. He believes that Paul was baptised with water in Acts 22:16. But he claims that Paul already had his sins washed away before Acts22:16.

So I told him that to show that all those are one event. When you asked me how baptism with water is done, I told it is done by sprinkling, immersion or pouring, invoking the Holy Trinity (Matt28:19).

You expect me to answer you, but you still can't tell me the effect of baptism with water...and what Peter meant by "that water" in 1Pet3,20,21 which I'm asking for the third or fourth time.

That shows you to be a dishonest debater who is only interested in winning an argument even if it means avoiding pertinent questions and diverting with trivial matters.

Still you haven't answered what Jesus said in Luke 18:15-16 "but I am not really expecting you to answer it.
Everyone knows the facts, except you-"babies don't sin, and if they did, it will be a fart or two followed by a wee or two on his mother, laughing-giggling while laying there having no cloths on, Other then that, the baby has no-idea what had just happen.

But you haven't answered my question, where does it say in the bible, about infant baptism, is a plus.

Romans 5:12-13 "Therefore sin came into the world through one man, and death as the result of sin, so death spread to all men {no-one was able to stop it all to escape its power} because all men sinned.
{To be sure} sin was in the world before ever the law was given, but sin is not charged to men's account where there is no law {to transgress}.
When you read a verse finish it off, what Jesus is really saying?

Lets try this one>1 Corinthians 15:16-21 "For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ is not raised, and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. Then those who have falling asleep in Christ have perished. Vs 20 "But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. Vs 21 "For since one man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
V's 22 "for as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive. Vs 22
And that's telling me all shall be made alive through making a choice.

Syncan:



Arrogant, insultive, talkative yet very ignorant. Despite given you a precise hint with Rom.5:12, you still can't understand can you, yet had the effontery to come here talking off point.

Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned.

Read the above passage until it makes sense to you, however if it is still difficult for you to comprehend, then look at the one below for explanation:

1Cor. 15:22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive..

Are infants excluded from "all" in the scripture passages above?

brocab:
And you were baptised into Mary, as sinners do.

you are on your own

Read you bible. From Psalms 51:5 Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul who sins shall die-The son shall not bear the punishment for his fathers iniquity, nor his father shall bear the punishment for his sons iniquity.
Meaning to say: The son don't take on the responsibility of his father or his mothers sins, but his own.
Kings 4:6 "The fathers shall not be put to death for his son, nor the son shall not be put to death for his father, both have their own sins.

So you see a infant does not have that same sinful nature as his parents, he may have been born into a sinners world, but a infant, as the Lord tells says, infants and little children are such as the kingdom of heaven.

Proving the child is still sinless in actions-without any sensibility to know sin..
So this shows you who have been baptised as a infant, was not baptised for your own remissions of sins, But the parents.
And if that's the case, then no-baby has been baptised into Christ.

heresy,

bible says, "i am a sinner from the womb"

brocab say, "you are not a sinner from the womb"

osicom:
Let's be very careful here.Our opinion and thoughts are not important here but rather what the bible says on this matter.Baptism is as important as any commandment in the Bible.It was part of the great commission where Christ command that we should PREACH the Gospel and whoever BELIEVE and is BAPTIZED will be save (Matt 28:19;Mark 16:15,16 etc).Most people will agree with me that believe,repentance,confessing Christ etc are essential for salvation.But most people always have issue when it comes to baptism which appear simultaneously with these commands.Read what Apostle Paul wrote in Roman 6:3,4: ''Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZE into Jesus Christ were BAPTIZED into his death? Therefore we are BURIED with him by BAPTISM into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. .When the church started in Act chapter,do you not read of baptism being commanded by Peter to those who asked to be save? Acts 2:38-42 reads :''Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and be BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION (FORGIVENESS) of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly RECEIVED his word were BAPTIZED: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.


There are numerous examples and instructions in support of baptism in the new testament.I should stop here for now not to have a lengthy poste,but read all the conversions (People becoming christian) in the book of Acts,and you come to realize the importance of this commandment. People of today disregard this just because of their personal view or of being thought differently in their respectively denomination by religious leaders.Whatever we say especially in this discussion of baptism if not supported in the bible should be disregarded.Let us base whatever we say,do on the Bible

thank you!

Both faith and baptism are important for salvation, I don't know why anyone will decide to play with what scriptures say.

MuttleyLaff:
Ubenedictus, you know how we got to me making that remark
I didnt abracadabra pluck it out of the air and just blurt out that truth like the manner you're twisting and icorrectly making it out that way
Dont you get tired of this Ubenedictus? You've had a field day of straw-man at my expense

In my next post, lets (i.e. italo, Syncan, you, Ubenedictus and I) put this matter to rest once and for all.
You and italo are going to love it. Syncan upon reading it, as usual might stay aloof
You better go put on a gum shield Ubenedictus, as the glove is coming off now.

I have countlessly said and gave examples,
that baptism is not an exclusive use meaning "water baptism" or only to be associated with "physical water baptism"
Forewarned is forearmed. I am taking no prisoners, so dont say there were no warnings

lol,

i did not lie, i simply wrote what you said.

You said baptism is an expired, obsolate practice and those who practice it do so out of ignorance and sentiments, that was what you said, isn't it?

Ubenedictus:


thank you!

Both faith and baptism are important for salvation, I don't know why anyone will decide to play with what scriptures say.

Exactly correct! Faith and baptism are inextricably linked.There is no way one can preach the gospel without commanding the need to hear the gospel,having faith in it,believe,repentance,confessing Christ and being added to the church to be save as we read in Act 2:28-42 and numerous examples repleted in the Bible.

And you have rightly noted some people simply play with scripture,but we must declare it as it is.

Thanks

It doesn't matter how you catholic's try and twist the scriptures around just to suit yourselves, even if it doesn't make any sense, we protestants are trying to work around you. It's not easy If you were saved as we are saved' there wouldn't be a war against you Catholic's and us protestants.
But it shows, we have two different view points, about your baby baptism-and the baptism of choice-and you expect us protestants to believe in your stupidity, think again. You have been digging deep to find answers-but you won't find it no-where written in the bible.

Romans 5:12 "Because of one man' all fell into sin, all men will die in that sin, only if they continual to live a life without Christ.
Romans 5:13 {For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

John 3:3 "Jesus said to Nicodemus-telling him one must be born again before he can enter into the kingdom of heaven. Of course the old man didn't understand what Jesus meant' one must become born again, the flesh would say how can a old man be born again, must he enter into his mothers womb a second time-Jesus said "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. "Do not marvel that I said to you one must be born again.'

Proverb 20:11 "Even a child is known by his acts, whether {or not} what he does is pure and right.

This is your chance to decide and follow after Christ and make a decision in your hearts and become a born again believer and be filled with the Holy Spirit to even understand anything belonging to Christ.
Baptism was a decision made by sinners, those same sinners who have chosen to believe in Christ.
Mark 16:16 "Jesus said: if he "believes" and is baptised will be saved, not the other way around. one must be baptised and believe later.

Ubenedictus:


you are on your own



heresy,

bible says, "i am a sinner from the womb"

brocab say, "you are not a sinner from the womb"

These Catholic's lie all the time, they are good at twisting words around only because they don't know any truths, all they can't seem to find the truth, that makes any sense. Just remember you are dealing with the unsaved-who believe they were saved in baby baptism.
keep on pushing the word of God into them, Satan never wins.

MuttleyLaff:
Ubenedictus, you know how we got to me making that remark
I didnt abracadabra pluck it out of the air and just blurt out that truth like the manner you're twisting and icorrectly making it out that way
Dont you get tired of this Ubenedictus? You've had a field day of straw-man at my expense

In my next post, lets (i.e. italo, Syncan, you, Ubenedictus and I) put this matter to rest once and for all.
You and italo are going to love it. Syncan upon reading it, as usual might stay aloof
You better go put on a gum shield Ubenedictus, as the glove is coming off now.

I have countlessly said and gave examples,
that baptism is not an exclusive use meaning "water baptism" or only to be associated with "physical water baptism"
Forewarned is forearmed. I am taking no prisoners, so dont say there were no warnings

MuttleyLaff:

Like tithing, it is past its "best before" date but people still use tithing as well as water baptism for sentimental or ignorance reason.

Ubenedictus:

you simply said, water baptism was [b]obsolate and those who do it, do so out of ignorance and sentiment! Abi no be so?

MuttleyLaff:

Ubenedictus, you know how we got to me making that remark
I didnt abracadabra pluck it out of the air and just blurt out that truth like the manner you're twisting and icorrectly making it out that way
Dont you get tired of this Ubenedictus? You've had a field day of straw-man at my expense

One mad dog:

These Catholic's lie all the time, they are good at twisting words around only because they don't know any truths, all they can't seem to find the truth, that makes any sense. Just remember you are dealing with the unsaved-who believe they were saved in baby baptism.
keep on pushing the word of God into them, Satan never wins.

@scholars8200, osicom, plus can you help us judge who is lying here?

Let MuttleyLaff show us how Ubenedictus twisted his words and incorrectly made it up, please.

brocab:
It doesn't matter how you catholic's try and twist the scriptures around just to suit yourselves, even if it doesn't make any sense, we protestants are trying to work around you.
It's not easy If you were saved as we are saved' there wouldn't be a war against you Catholic's and us protestants.

brocab:
These Catholic's lie all the time, they are good at twisting words around only because they don't know any truths, all they can't seem to find the truth, that makes any sense. Just remember you are dealing with the unsaved-who believe they were saved in baby baptism.
keep on pushing the word of God into them, Satan never wins.

italo:

One mad dog: These Catholic's lie all the time, they are good at twisting words around only because they don't know any truths, all they can't seem to find the truth, that makes any sense. Just remember you are dealing with the unsaved-who believe they were saved in baby baptism
keep on pushing the word of God into them, Satan never wins.

italo:
@scholars8200, osicom, plus can you help us judge who is lying here?

Let MuttleyLaff show us how Ubenedictus twisted his words and incorrectly made it up, please.

I hear you brocab, but God is neither Catholic, Protestants etc
There is no denomination in the Kingdom of God

italo:
I was talking to someone with a different idea of the events than you have.

He believes that one is saved, with their sins washed away when they believe. He believes that Paul was baptised with water in Acts 22:16.
But he claims that Paul already had his sins washed away before Acts22:16.

So I told him that to show that all those are one event. When you asked me how baptism with water is done, I told it is done by sprinkling, immersion or pouring, invoking the Holy Trinity(Matt28:19)

OK, never mind, seems you're arent aware of the additions inserted in that passage. Seems you dont want to admit whose name specifically was used by the Apostles, Paul included when baptising and/or water baptising after Jesus' death and resurrection

italo:
You expect me to answer you, but you still can't tell me the effect of baptism with water...and what Peter meant by "that water" in 1 Pet3,20,21 which I'm asking for the third or fourth time

Even if you tried, you know you'll only get yourself tied into a twist with the gymnastics flirtation with Matt 28:19 "invoking the Holy Trinity".
I like how you avoided or sidestepped the question though
I had answered you in so many ways before
but you seem not ready for the truth, talkless of recognising it
Forom another angle, try, a glorified "Placebo effect"?

italo:
That shows you to be a dishonest debater who is only interested in winning an argument even if it means avoiding pertinent questions and diverting with trivial matters.

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks
To you, this is a debate, to you, this is about winning, to you, this is about scoring cheap points.
All this, is to you is scalping-cutting for hanging trophies

You, Syncan and Ubenedictus have continually wielded and threw about one form of straw-man to another,
all in different shapes, forms and guises
and you have the cheek you accuse someone else or say that, that one is avoiding pertinent questions and diverting with trivial matters

When answers are given, you single out a sentence
and without taking in account the train thought nor the flow of the discussion, build indictments with them.