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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? (26538 Views)
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Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by MuttleyLaff: 10:06am On Jun 27, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: Like tithing, it is past its "best before" dateShown above is the link for the original discussion between muttleylaff and esere826. This is snapped up and seized by Ubenedictus. He then vindictively blew it out of proportion, italo in tandem, too has unashamedly dissected it with ulterior intent and brought it up here, as seen following below Ubenedictus: you simply said, water baptism was obsolate and those who do it, do so out of ignorance and sentiment! Abi no be so? MuttleyLaff: Ubenedictus, you know how we got to me making that remark brocab: These Catholic's lie all the time, they are good at twisting words around only because they don't know any truths, all they can't seem to find the truth, that makes any sense. Just remember you are dealing with the unsaved-who believe they were saved in baby baptism. italo: MuttleyLaff: 9:10am On Jun 19 Excuse my language but you've probably guessed that I dont give a Foxtrot-Uniform-Charlie-Kilo about what type of water are in those passages, as my stance on water baptism is no secret. Do it, if you're compelled or feel the need to but if you dont, please do not lose sleep over it. It isnt a do-or-die fanaticism I just love it when people pull out the heresy card and play it grin grin grin Something must have rattled and got them fidgety to do that Nota bene, I am very particular and more concerned about John 3:5 and John 7:8 Do you agree both verses have nothing whatsoever to do with physical or literal water https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/5#34918196 MuttleyLaff: 7:51am On Jun 24 God bless you. This exactly is the genesis of this whole matter. Before it spilled into this thread, it started between Kei144 and I, here https://www.nairaland.com/2352063/enter-kingdom-god-now#34519061 https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/8#35090589 Ubenedictus:You guys are employing delay tactics, to distract with another straw-man and so prevent the submission of the promised last post which will settle and put the final nail in this whole thing |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by brocab: 10:19am On Jun 27, 2015 |
But there is truth. You either walk with it' all you lie about it. Which one are you ![]() Jesus said one must be born again, if there is no denomination, then why is the Lord calling for the body' His Church, His personal army to believe in Him. We are born again Christians, the Church that belongs to God. There's no other church that stands above the Lords Church, one must be born again. How about you ![]() MuttleyLaff: |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by osicom: 10:52am On Jun 27, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: If I get you right,if you say John 3:5 has nothing to do with water,how do u explain water in these passages. Act_8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be[b] baptized[/b]? Act_8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. Act_9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. Act_10:47 Can any man forbid wate[/b]r, that these should not be [b]baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? Water baptism as a 'must step' for whoever want to be born again (to be a christian).I affirm this because christ said in Matt 28:19:''Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost''. Baptism was commanded for numerous (see my earlier detailed poste) among them is the forgiveness of sin Act 2:38 ''Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost'' It may interest you to know that baptism is not only for the people in the Bible,but for all who God will call Act 2:39 ''For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.'' Why can't we just rely on what the Bible says rather than opposing it with our so called knowledge which is like a rage juxtapose with God wisdom. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by osicom: 11:02am On Jun 27, 2015 |
osicom: I am reiterating my earlier (above) comment by adding the following for those who still kick against water baptism as essential to one's salvation with insurmountable evidence from the Bible. Act_8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be[b] baptized[/b]? Act_8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. Act_9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. Act_10:47 Can any man forbid wate[/b]r, that these should not be [b]baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? Water baptism as a 'must step' for whoever want to be born again (to be a christian).I affirm this because christ said in Matt 28:28:''Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost''. Baptism was commanded for numerous reasons among them is the forgiveness of sin Act 2:38 ''Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost'' It may interest you to know that baptism is not only for the people in the Bible,but for all who God will call Act 2:39 ''For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.'' Why can we just rely on what the Bible say rather than opposing it with so called knowledge which is like a rage juxtapose with God wisdom. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by osicom: 11:03am On Jun 27, 2015 |
osicom: I am reiterating my earlier (above) comment by adding the following for those who still kick against water baptism as essential to one's salvation with insurmountable evidence from the Bible. Act_8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be[b] baptized[/b]? Act_8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. Act_9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. Act_10:47 Can any man forbid wate[/b]r, that these should not be [b]baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? Water baptism as a 'must step' for whoever want to be born again (to be a christian).I affirm this because christ said in Matt 28:28:''Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost''. Baptism was commanded for numerous reasons among them is the forgiveness of sin Act 2:38 ''Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost'' It may interest you to know that baptism is not only for the people in the Bible,but for all who God will call Act 2:39 ''For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.'' Why can we just rely on what the Bible say rather than opposing it with so called knowledge which is like a rage juxtapose with God wisdom. 1 Like |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Ubenedictus(m): 11:58am On Jun 27, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: you can submit whatever you want to submit that is not my problem. But I didn't lie, you said it! You claim is was obsolate and expired, you said it was done out of sentiments and ignorance! That was the post that really made me take notice. I didn't blow anything or lie! Please be sincere. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Ubenedictus(m): 12:03pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
brocab: lol brocab, I am a born again Christian, I am surprised that you seem to think God is you sole property! God is not for you alone! He isn't for even Christians alone. There is only One God and he is for all and all belongs to him. If you believe in a God that belong to you alone then you are serving an idol. 2 Likes |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Ubenedictus(m): 12:49pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
Here! MuttleyLaff: |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Ubenedictus(m): 12:50pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
osicom: amen! I don't understant why people are trying to divorce faith and baptism, they go together. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by MuttleyLaff: 2:57pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
osicom:Until just now, I wasnt going to dignify your posts with comments. Please scrutinise the thread to know what so far has been written or posted because your post reeks of regurgitations, ill-informed opinions and unnecessary barriers osicom:Too many holes in these poor attempt at trying to gel-together three verses, too many inconsistencies and you know what they are osicom:Please dont cook up a phatom Matt 28:28 and dont try to build a water baptism doctrine on it. There is no such thing as Matt 28:28 Correcting you, where is water in Matt 28:19? Have you not read what I hinted about Matt 28:19 to Ubenedictus? osicom:Which baptism was commanded? What kind of baptism was Peter refering to for the almost 3000 converts there in Act 2:38? Compare and contrast the following: Moses baptism, John baptism and Jesus baptism osicom:Ask yourself that question, why can't we just rely on what the Bible say rather than concocting up doctrines and man traditions like Pharisees do and just bear in mind that to inform is all that's so far being done on this thread, to know is the duty of the readership Putting out what we ALL, really ought to know, but often like in this case, few, despite all discussed here, which has been very instructive to all, wish they might not have known. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by brocab: 3:29pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
Born again Christians couldn't possibility lie like you, it's only liars such as yourself Uben that can never make any sense when trying to twist words that never existed. And when did you become a born again' was it at the time of baptism infants into the Catholic Church as you had claimed from the beginning. So you are surprised, you seem to think God has sole property over my life-well he does-as well as the many millions of born again Christians He has called into His kingdom. Jesus said one must be born again, not become a Catholic worshipper who join pagan religion and worship Idol's, such as you standing at the feet of Mary's statue, bowing down lighting a candle praying she will pray for you, as your mediator. Why then is the Lord calling His people to come to Him-If you believe He isn't for even Christians alone' who else beside babies will go into heaven without Him knowing? THEIRS NO BACK DOOR INTO HEAVEN. Ubenedictus: 1 Like |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by MuttleyLaff: 3:50pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
Ubenedictus:Here what?. What's that suppose to mean? Again, do you agree that there is no record of Paul ever being water baptised? If your answer is NO, then show the verse backing your reply which tells of Paul been exactly and explicitly water baptised |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by MuttleyLaff: 3:59pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
brocab:cc Ubenedictus What is "born again"? Why must anyone be born again? How did this issue of "born again" come about? What was the background, circumstance and reason? Why did Jesus bring up the "born again" matter? How many people on record did Jesus teach or preach "born again" to? Jesus is known to preach and teach to multitudes, is it on record He preached and taught "born again" to any of the multitudes? What benefit, was mentioned as the objective of being "born again"? What is the sharp distinction and/or difference between "born again" and "born of water and spirit"? |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Ubenedictus(m): 4:52pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
brocab: lol, you have manage to insult me. Weldone. You can show everyone where I lie, if you can't shame on you. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by MuttleyLaff: 6:26pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
Ubenedictus:Nicodemus wasnt laughing at that lecture, like you just now did. brocab took style to tell you that, like that night time visiting Pharisee or shall we "Far-to-see" you're coming across as not "seeing" You're not acknowledging what you "see". If you're not accepting or admitting what is in sight, hmm, there is something somewhere or somehow wrong - the source or origin of your accouchement is being questioned ![]() |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by osicom: 6:28pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
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Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by osicom: 6:49pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
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Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by osicom: 6:54pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
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Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by osicom: 7:14pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: I never attacked your person for you to attack me.We are debating issues here not the person who can use the best of words.Address and discuss the passages in the Bible I quoted.It is not for you to say baptism is not important.With the numerous passages I cited and examples of people who were baptized,recorded in Bible I am well informed to believe what the bible says on this matter.I never posted my opinion here,what I posted was backed by scriptures I cited.How do I cause barrier?If I caused any barrier by simply saying exactly how the Bible puts its,so be it.I would rather prefer to be seen as causing barrier,saying exactly how it is, than going with popular notion. MuttleyLaff: Where are the holes,those passages simple tell of water as a medium of baptism.Where are the inconsistencies? Are you telling me that you do not compare different passages of the bible for proper understanding of a topic? If u think otherwise,then it becomes very difficult to discuss further. MuttleyLaff: I was supposed to type verse 19 instead of 28.Don't crucify me for what I never intended to type. To tell that it was a mistake,did you not see the reading that accompanied the quotation? My friend this is not a phantom.I am not building a water baptism doctrine.Did Christ not command baptism,did the apostles not administer it to would-be Christians,what about the Ethiopia eunuch,what about Paul? What about the numerous believers in Act chapter 2. I once again implore you to read and see water being used to administer baptism here: J[i]ohn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. [/i] Act_8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? Act_8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water[i], both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. Act_8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. Act_10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? [/i] MuttleyLaff: On the issue of which baptism,I agree there were many baptism mentioned in the new testament.There was John baptism of repentance for the remission of sin Mk_1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.[/i].Luk_3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; We also read of baptism of suffering of christ :Mark_10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? Mar_10:39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized: ,Luk_12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! .We are read of baptism of the Holy Ghost which empower the Apostle as we see in Act 2: Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Mat_3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. .This passages also made mention of baptism in fore which connotes destruction. From all these example,we can that baptism(Baptizo from greek) mean to be submerge/immerse/covered/overwhelm in something.In our discussion,one is immersed in water for baptism. It is important to note that John's baptism was no longer in effect and was replace by the one commanded by christ.For this reason,those who received John baptism were baptized properly: [i]Act_19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Act_19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. MuttleyLaff: Concoct what?I simple quote and read of baptism of being mentioned and practiced by the 1st century Christians.Yet you say I concocted it.This is not funny.I hope no body accuses you of concocting something when u tell them to stop stealing,repent,believe,do good works and numerous thing you read of in the bible.It becomes a concocted doctrine when one mentions baptism.Hmm.Where is our standard here. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:39pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: sorry my dear this you epistle doesn't cut it, brocab just called be a liar, along with your own accusation of twisting words. You guys just attacked my person instead of the topic, so kindly show me my "twisting" and brocab can kindly prove I am a liar. If anybody is denying what they see its both of you! You have went to great length to try and say "water and spirit" is not water and spirit, you have continued to divert issues by by throwing questions around. Your idea of a "picture" has been rebuted but you prefer to still play around. 1 Like |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by italo: 9:30pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: If this were in Greek, I could have used the Internet to interpret... Please who can understand and interpret jargons? ![]() ![]() Was he able to say how Ubenedictus twisted his words? |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by MuttleyLaff: 9:39pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
italo:DILLIGAD. This is a tall order for any Pharisee aka Far-to-see |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by italo: 9:54pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff:Still throwing tantrums and talking jargons! Still can't tell us what Peter meant by "that water..." Still can't tell the "effect" of baptism with water... Still can't say how Syncan, Ubenedictus or Italo twisted his words... Still trying to lie that he didn't say "water baptism" is 'expired,' done out of "ignorance" and "sentiments." Still...the evidence is there for all to see. ![]() |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by MuttleyLaff: 11:47pm On Jun 27, 2015 |
osicom:I am not attacking your person but talked about your post. If it came across as attacking your person, that wasnt the plan or intention, so please deem it fit to accept my apologies for the misconstrued attack osicom:Exactly, which is why I advised to PLEASE scrutinise the 13 page thread to know what so far has been been written and especially posted by me osicom:I can say or repeat same for myself too osicom:You will see the barrier and how you're causing it soon. Watch out for it in my final post osicom:May I bring to your attention that the topic of this thread is "Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism?" The holes and inconsistencies seen from a mile off, are you building up a case around showing "water baptism" as a requirement for salvation osicom:Crucify? So me saying "There is no such thing as Matt 28:28" and afterwards typing "Correcting you, where is water in Matt 28:19?" is now crucification and you hard done by it? I am not saying a word further on the matter, as you might misconstrue it osicom:Friend, if Matt 28:28 is not in the Bible, then that's phantom right there for you, it's the brain playing a figment of the imagination tricks on you. Happens to everyone now or then, dont lose sleep over it, am not. osicom:Oh yes you are. There is baptism and there is water baptism, so which one are you referring to osicom:SMH, If and when I say you're concocting, you flip. Dont you see John 3:3 is out of place with the other quoted verses, its like a swollen like a red sore thumb among them, it doesnt gel with the others As for John 3:3, why dont you stimulate your palate with "born again" by visiting a post quoting brocab with Ubenedictus cc'ed on it, I think its seven to ten posts above https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/13#35213348 osicom:Wheyhey!, are you f_ _ kidding me with this s_ _ Bravo, encore, by the way, I already love you but I think I am now beginning to be in love with you. No homo, that needs to be said too. Only you have had the balls and stretched your neck to agree and admit all this I've hinted all this before, gave examples on differences in baptisms to no avail, did illustrations on different ways of using the baptism word, all for nada etc What you've just submitted is actually part of and is in my final post on this matter osicom:Here is where you and I might be at opposing ends, you seem to leave out baptism of fire and the spirit which John the Baptist said Jesus will baptise all with osicom:Yeepa! You just right there killed it. Aw, wish I could see you, rub your chubby face together and plant a kiss on it. You be correct guy to "see" this. You sure are "born from above" to "see" all these Would have loved it if you had managed to shed light on Moses baptism and particularly talk on what Moses baptism for the Israelites leaving Egypt, John baptism for the Jew and Jesus baptism for believers implies. It's all good anyway, I hold no one no grudges, we inform only the most important information after careful scrutiny or examination osicom:Never mind bro, just watch out for my final post. Concoct, concocted or concocting was just a tongue in cheek, me jokingly saying you added various ingredients (i.e. a verse or two that didnt flow with others) in making up the dish you served. PS: I waited for you to finish your editing, a pain those double entry or repeat posts, isnt it and how your post looked like before you properly edited it Nice one for removing the treble entry or repeat posts |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by brocab: 2:14am On Jun 28, 2015 |
This is easy to prove you are a lair-just by Claiming you are a Catholic worshipper. Finely claiming to me; you are a born again Christian, and we all know born again Christians don't pray to any other God's/mediators' Mother of God-Queen of heaven, ring a bell. 1 Timothy 2:5 "For their is One God and one mediator Jesus Christ.. If you were truly a born again Christian, you would know the difference between what is truth, and who too worship. Isaiah 43:11 "I am the Lord and their is no other saviour but Me. So you see not even Mary your mediator can save you. Let me remind you and religious tribe, it's the Holy Spirit who lives and teaches us all things belonging to God. Matthew 4:10 "Away with you Satan-For it is written, you shall worship the Lord your God and only him you shall serve. Ubenedictus: |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by brocab: 2:33am On Jun 28, 2015 |
Quote>You guy's have attacked my person instead of the topic What are you preferring too, is this another lie, you will deny saying Mr Uben, twisting words that don't exist-show me where in my written argument to you, did we write about water and the Spirit issues? This will be interesting? Ubenedictus: 1 Like |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by brocab: 2:56am On Jun 28, 2015 |
Here's for you Ubenedictus-What is "Born again"? A person who had converted to a personal faith in Christ. MuttleyLaff: |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by btoks: 7:22am On Jun 28, 2015 |
From the last 2 pages,you see an example of how sola scriptura doesn't work.one person says baptism is important and saves,others say water baptism is obsolete.!How do we know the truth? 1 Like |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by MuttleyLaff: 10:01am On Jun 28, 2015 |
btoks:I loved this thats why I liked it Not everyone handles the truth very well Not everyone can bear the truth now Where Sola scriptura is tried and found wanting or doesn't work, then John 16:12-14 kicks in to know the truth John 16:12-14 12“There is so much more I want to tell you, but you can’t bear it now. 13When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future. 14He will bring me glory by telling you whatever he receives from me |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by italo: 8:58pm On Jun 28, 2015 |
btoks: You will have to ask barnabaseloke and Muttleylatt, They seem to have assumed ownership of the "spirit." They know who has the Spirit and who doesn't. They even know how much of the spirit each person has. The problem is that that "spirit" tells them contradictory things sometimes. ![]() |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by MuttleyLaff: 10:18pm On Jun 28, 2015 |
italo: ![]() |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by brocab: 12:53am On Jun 29, 2015 |
Read the bible. btoks: |
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