vest:
then you are a he-po-cret deseeving ur self

U are the one deceiving yourself not him bro.

vest:
anytime i c topic lyk this i jst smile remembering syncan

You should really laugh out loud I tell you.

An angel coming from God said to Mary "blessed art thou among women." Lk 1:28

Elizabeth Filled with the Holy Ghost said to Mary "Blessed art thou among women" Lk1:42

A woman inspired by Jesus teachings said of Mary "Blessed is the womb that bare thee" Lk 11:27

...Yet the OP says the woman worshiped Mary and Jesus rebuked her.

Bro Vest, you really need to laugh out loud.

honourhim:

wey that my friend sef?

I'm here dear one, I hope you are doing ok.

Tallesty1:
Biblical proof that she has fore-knowledge of our problems or that she hears our prayers bro.

You are alive, you can hear and see but Mary is dead. That's the difference.

So you doubt Jesus?

Jesus said: "Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die" Jn 11:26. He even used Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as examples thus: "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living" Matt. 22:32. Please try to believe Jesus, Mary is living just as these Patriarchs.

Syncan:


So you doubt Jesus?

Jesus said: "Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die" Jn 11:26. He even used Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as examples thus: "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living" Matt. 22:32. Please try to believe Jesus, Mary is living just as these Patriarchs.

Genesis 25 v 8

Then Abraham breathed his last and died at a good old age, an old man and full of years; and he was gathered to his people.

Tallesty1:
Genesis 25 v 8

Then Abraham breathed his last and died at a good old age, an old man and full of years; and he was gathered to his people.

Again I ask, do you doubt Jesus?

"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living" Matt. 22:32. Mary is living, just as Abraham.

You, my friend, are so knowledgeable about things of this world (I had noticed you before now), I wish you could be so with regards to your faith.

Syncan:



Again I ask, do you doubt Jesus?

"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living" Matt. 22:32. Mary is living, just as Abraham.

You, my friend, are so knowledgeable about things of this world (I had noticed you before now), I wish you could be so with regards to your faith.

The reason I used that bible quote was to bring to your attention, the fact that my comment was talking physical death.

Mary being alive in the spirit is no guarantee that he can hear us or help us.

And I personally don't need her help if at all he she hears.

Do you know why?

It is because Hebrews 4:16 encourages me to approach the throne of grace confidently. "Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need".

There is also no scriptural evidence that Mary intercedes for mankind.

1 Timothy 2:5 says For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

And The Man Jesus Christ said "You can ask for any thing in my name, and I will do it

So we really don't need Mary's services, ie if at all she has any to offer.

Tallesty1:
The reason I used that bible quote was to bring to your attention, the fact that my comment was talking physical death.

Mary being alive in the spirit is no guarantee that he can hear us or help us.

And I personally don't need her help if at all he she hears.

Do you know why?

It is because Hebrews 4:16 encourages me to approach the throne of grace confidently. "Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need".

There is also no scriptural evidence that Mary intercedes for mankind.

1 Timothy 2:5 says For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

And The Man Jesus Christ said "You can ask for any thing in my name, and I will do it

So we really don't need Mary's services, ie if at all she has any to offer.

Oh really?

If Abraham can hear us, (see the rich man and Lazarus) Lk 16:19-31....So Mary can hear.

Prayer. The communication with God is more a spiritual than physical thing, for God is a spirit. If you don't need her help,I have no problem with that, but don't condemn me for asking a righteous person to pray for me because "The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective". James 5:16

Jesus is the mediator, I agree, Yet it does not nullify (1Tim 2:1) "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men". St. Paul calls us to intercession, yet we know that Christ continues to intercede, since (Heb 7:24-25) says: "But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them". St Paul knows this eternal Intercessory role of Christ, yet he exhorts the faithful to "Intercessions for all men" without fear of contradiction, it therefore means that we can participate in these aspect of Christ's ministry according to the level of "bonding" between us and Jesus without anyone feeling that recognition is taking away from Christ.

The early church knew this and practiced it, As a matter of fact, the earliest manuscript containing that prayer you quoted is P470 (Pappyrus leaf number 470) dating as far back as 250AD.

Syncan:



Oh really?

If Abraham can hear us, (see the rich man and Lazarus) Lk 16:19-31....So Mary can hear.

Abraham can hear us

*Sighs*

Listen bro, A parable is a short symbolic story designed to teach some principle or lesson. They are not meant to be taken literally.

Syncan:
Prayer. The communication with God is more a spiritual than physical thing, for God is a spirit. If you don't need her help,I have no problem with that, but don't condemn me for asking a righteous person to pray for me because "The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective". James 5:16

I am not condemning you, I just want you to know where and how you violate the bible truth.

Syncan:
Jesus is the mediator, I agree, Yet it does not nullify (1Tim 2:1) "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men".

By Who?

Syncan:
St. Paul calls us to intercession, yet we know that Christ continues to intercede, since (Heb 7:24-25) says: "But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them". St Paul knows this eternal Intercessory role of Christ, yet he exhorts the faithful to "Intercessions for all men" without fear of contradiction, it therefore means that we can participate in these aspect of Christ's ministry according to the level of "bonding" between us and Jesus without anyone feeling that recognition is taking away from Christ.

Saint Paul was teaching about the living for the living. Saint Paul nowhere encourages, or even mentions believers asking individuals in heaven for their prayers.

Syncan:
The early church knew this and practiced it, As a matter of fact, the earliest manuscript containing that prayer you quoted is P470 (Pappyrus leaf number 470) dating as far back as 250AD.

Listen......

Jesus Christ thought us that prayer is only to be directed to our God, who can listen and hear my prayer… he asked us to pray using his name because He and the Father are one.

Mary or the saints were not mentioned here.

The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers.

The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth.

The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God.

Then why do we pray to Mary and saints?

Do you remember what happened in 1 Samuel 28:7-19?? Lemme refresh your memory, Samuel was called up from the land of the dead Remember? Good, did you notice that Samuel is not exactly happy to be disturbed.


Is that a clear lesson that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for us.

Ok, lemme agree for a minute that Abraham, Jacob, Isaac and other saints can hear us. Yes lemme agree for a minute that they can.


If truly they can


then why the focus on Mary

honourhim:


You still dont get it. The question is- who gave Mary such powers and where is it in the scripture? U are just dancing around this issue dear.

actually there is no question there, the person said he was wondering! He didn't really ask a question

The rcc rosary is saying the hail mary 10 times followed by the our Father
then another 10 hail marys followed by .... and so on.

Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Mat 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Christians pray directly to Father God.

Praying is not reciting the same prayers over and over again,
praying is talking to our Father as if we were talking to another human close by that we Love.

We thank God for the things he does for us, we ask Him for things we need,
we praise Him, and so on, like we were talking to someone near us that we Love,
only we don't have to talk out loud, but in our minds.
Best at a quiet time, perhaps when resting with no distractions.

We have a personal relationship with God Who we Love and Who Loves us
He is not someone Who is far off.

Tallesty1:
Abraham can hear us

*Sighs*

Listen bro, A parable is a short symbolic story designed to teach some principle or lesson. They are not meant to be taken literally.

And what did it teach you, that Abraham had no knowledge of the rich man's life on earth? You need to stop doubting Jesus, he never uses cock and bull stories. If Abraham will not know about the rich man's life, Jesus will not say he knew. LK16:25

I am not condemning you, I just want you to know where and how you violate the bible truth.

Now you abrogate yourself the authority you deny the church, to teach what is the truth. Yet the church and not you, is the foundation and pillar of truth...not even the bible. 1Tim 3:15

By Who?
Saint Paul was teaching about the living for the living. Saint Paul nowhere encourages, or even mentions believers asking individuals in heaven for their prayers.

In Christ, all the saints are in communion, those in heaven also intercede for those on earth."the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" Rev. 5:8. It was never in doubt among the early Christians, for even during the persecutions, people about to be martyred are asked by their fellow brethren to obtain favors for them when they get to heaven. Try to read a little about early Christianity.

Listen......Jesus Christ thought us that prayer is only to be directed to our God, who can listen and hear my prayer… he asked us to pray using his name because He and the Father are one.

Mary or the saints were not mentioned here.

The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers.

The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth.

The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God.

Then why do we pray to Mary and saints?"

If you were a protestant, I would have taken you to be "Sola Scriptura", but you claim to be Catholic, so I don't even know how to respond, since Catholics don't base on scripture alone, but on the word of God. This is found both in the bible, Oral tradition (as seen in our history), and the teachings of the magisterium.
However, I have shown you earlier with scriptures that though Jesus is our mediator, I can still ask Italo, Vest or Mary to pray for me because they are all alive before God and Indeed all pray to God everyday. Any prayer said by these people still pass through and to Jesus. If Italo and vest are righteous before God, their prayers will be very Powerful with Jesus Jam. 5:16, Mary's righteousness is confirmed, hence her prayer is very Powerful with Jesus. Jn 2:1-11

Do you remember what happened in 1 Samuel 28:7-19?? Lemme refresh your memory, Samuel was called up from the land of the dead Remember? Good, did you notice that Samuel is not exactly happy to be disturbed.

Is that a clear lesson that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for us.

You don't need this, even you know the difference between necromancy and asking for intercession in prayer. The saints in heaven pray to God everyday, they praise him daily.in the opening verses of Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!"

Ok, lemme agree for a minute that Abraham, Jacob, Isaac and other saints can hear us. Yes lemme agree for a minute that they can.

If truly they can then why the focus on Mary

Again it is left for you to believe Jesus, "In the same way, there is more joy in heaven over one lost sinner who repents and returns to God...". They know what their fellow members of that one body are doing here on earth, for "we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses" Heb 12:1.

Why the focus on Mary you ask? I should be asking you that question, for it is you who singled her out. However, for about two thousand years now, among all other saints both here and in heaven,her intercession before her son has been shown to be most powerful. The church takes note of this Divine manifestation and revelations, so she continues to take recourse to her maternal aid. Even the first Protestants never disregarded her as the end time protestants. The early Church had recourse to her help and was able to spread Christianity to the ends of the earth.

Everybody claiming to be a former Catholic... Even ana2elect.... Smh.....

Una no need to lie before you pass across your messages...

johnw74:


The rcc rosary is saying the hail mary 10 times followed by the our Father
then another 10 hail marys followed by .... and so on.

Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Mat 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Christians pray directly to Father God.

Excellent.

Catholics are just playing hide and seek games here. At one point they will hold on to the words of Jesus and at another point they dont hold on to it. Now here is another teaching that Jesus gave on prayer-

-
Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Obviously prayers should be directed to God. All these stories that Catholiics are telling dont fit in at all. Its either u fall in line with Christ's teachings or u are on your own.

honourhim:
Catholics are just playing hide and seek games here. At one point they will hold on to the words of Jesus and at another point they dont hold on to it. Now here is another teaching that Jesus gave on prayer-

-
Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Obviously prayers should be directed to God. All these stories that Catholiics are telling dont fit in at all. Its either u fall in line with Christ's teachings or u are on your own.

So that's why you couldn't respond to a simple " Hope you're doing ok" from a Catholic. Well done o.

I am glad that even the poster you hailed, mentioned that the Lord's Prayer is said a number of times in that particular devotion he chose to attack. Catholics direct their prayers to God, they even call on their brethren on earth and in heaven to pray to God, sometimes in supplication, sometimes in praise and thanksgiving. When they say Psalm 148 for example they say ""Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" This is prayer isn't it? Yet it calls on angels and saints to pray to God. Same way when they say the Hail Mary, they call on Mary to pray to God, "...Pray for us sinners..." they say.

[quuote author=Syncan post=35440286]


So that's why you couldn't respond to a simple " Hope you're doing ok" from a Catholic. Well done o.

[/quote]

Awwwww sorry dear. I had it in mind to reply u but was distracted with work. Pls forgive me. I'm fine dear. No hard feelings.

Can someone plz explain what exactly are the angels doing in this passage...

See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

Just to add this extract from catholic.com


No one prays to dead saints, because those in heaven are more alive than we are. The Lord is God of the living, not of the dead. The fervent prayer of a righteous man is very powerful (Jas 5:16). Those in heaven are surely righteous, since nothing unclean can enter heaven (Rv 21:27). Those in heaven are part of the Mystical Body of Christ and have not been separated from us by death, but surround us as a great cloud of witnesses (Heb 12:1). They stand before the throne of God and offer our prayers to him (Rv 5: and cheer us on as we run the good race. Intercession among members of the body of Christ is pleasing to God (1 Tm 2:1-4) and even commanded by him (Jn 15:17). Those in heaven have a perfected love, so how could they not intercede for us? Christ is the vine, and we are the branches; if we are connected to him, we are inseparably bound together as well. Can the eye say to the hand, "I need you not"? Neither are we to say we don’t need the prayers of our brothers and sisters (alive here or in heaven), because salvation is a family affair.

Somebody like Mary deserves to be honoured, a sacred person and the purest mind from the world's population to mother the saviour of the world. Even though she was not the only virgin in the world but the best option in the whole world. She whorths it.

honourhim:
Luke 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 [b][/b]But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

We can see in the scripture above that Christ didnt give support to the slightest worship of his mother yet people wont hear.

A thread that started with a lie!

Nobody worshiped Mary in the verse.

Syncan:



So that's why you couldn't respond to a simple " Hope you're doing ok" from a Catholic. Well done o.

I am glad that even the poster you hailed, mentioned that the Lord's Prayer is said a number of times in that particular devotion he chose to attack. Catholics direct their prayers to God, they even call on their brethren on earth and in heaven to pray to God, sometimes in supplication, sometimes in praise and thanksgiving. When they say Psalm 148 for example they say ""Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" This is prayer isn't it? Yet it calls on angels and saints to pray to God. Same way when they say the Hail Mary, they call on Mary to pray to God, "...Pray for us sinners..." they say.

@bold,
How does saying an Our Father after saying 10 hail marys make it a right way to pray?
Prayer isn't reciting the same things over and over, prayer is talking to God, having a conversation with Him.

Christians have a personal relationship with God, they don't pray to human beings who have died to pray to God for them.

@underline,
the psalmist tells the Angels and Heavenly host to praise the Lord,
the psalmist did not tell the Angels and Heavenly host to pray to God for Him,
a big difference.

johnw74:


@bold,
How does saying an Our Father after saying 10 hail marys make it a right way to pray?
Prayer isn't reciting the same things over and over, prayer is talking to God, having a conversation with Him.

Christians have a personal relationship with God, they don't pray to human beings who have died to pray to God for them.

@underline,
the psalmist tells the Angels and Heavenly host to praise the Lord,
the psalmist did not tell the Angels and Heavenly host to pray to God for Him,
a big difference.

Hahahaha, now he asks how saying Our father is the right way to pray. Did Jesus tell you how many times you should say it? Just take a look at the bold, do you know you just said that Jesus did not pray well in the garden of Gethsemane? lets see what happened there Matt. 26:44 "And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words". Did you see that Jesus spent his time in the Garden saying same thing? Yet you have the audacity to tell Jesus that "Prayer isn't reciting same thing over and over again". Ok, make I just dey observe you.

Thank you for agreeing that the Psalmist told the angels and the hosts to praise the Lord. At least it means you agree that angels and hosts can pray, for praise just like supplication are forms of prayers. If any one can Pray, such a one can praise, such a one can Petition, such a one can supplicate for another. The Psalmist asked them to praise the Lord, why? for he the psalmist feels the goodness and greatness of God, so he is simply telling them to Praise God for him, just same way some people (not you) asks their brethren to praise God for them. What is wrong with that, it is scriptural not so? Was the psalmist praying in that passage or not.

johnw74:

@bold,
How does saying an Our Father after saying 10 hail marys make it a right way to pray?
Prayer isn't reciting the same things over and over, prayer is talking to God, having a conversation with Him.

Christians have a personal relationship with God, they don't pray to human beings who have died to pray to God for them.

@underline,
the psalmist tells the Angels and Heavenly host to praise the Lord,
the psalmist did not tell the Angels and Heavenly host to pray to God for Him,
a big difference.

Ha! Syncan! It seems that we Catholics (Jesus, the four living creatures and us) don't know how to pray.

What are we going to do? See below.

Matt26:44 So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

Rev4:8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:

“‘Holy, holy, holy

is the Lord God Almighty,’[b]

who was, and is, and is to come.”

italo:


Ha! Syncan! It seems that we Catholics (Jesus, the four living creatures and us) don't know how to pray.

What are we going to do? See below.

Matt26:44 So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

Rev4:8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:

“‘Holy, holy, holy

is the Lord God Almighty,’[b]

who was, and is, and is to come.”

Bro, I just tire for the "rabbi".

Syncan:

Hahahaha, now he asks how saying Our father is the right way to pray. Did Jesus tell you how many times you should say it? Just take a look at the bold, do you know you just said that Jesus did not pray well in the garden of Gethsemane? lets see what happened there Matt. 26:44 "And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words". Did you see that Jesus spent his time in the Garden saying same thing? Yet you have the audacity to tell Jesus that "Prayer isn't reciting same thing over and over again". Ok, make I just dey observe you.

Thank you for agreeing that the Psalmist told the angels and the hosts to praise the Lord. At least it means you agree that angels and hosts can pray, for praise just like supplication are forms of prayers. If any one can Pray, such a one can praise, such a one can Petition, such a one can supplicate for another. The Psalmist asked them to praise the Lord, why? for he the psalmist feels the goodness and greatness of God, so he is simply telling them to Praise God for him, just same way some people (not you) asks their brethren to praise God for them. What is wrong with that, it is scriptural not so? Was the psalmist praying in that passage or not.

In the anti-Catholic mind: if I say the Psalmist was not praying, I will sound silly. If I say the Psalmist was praying, it would mean the Catholics are right to ask for intercession. I will rather beat around the bush or change the topic.

Lol.... @syncan and italo.... I can only laf out loud.... I go tell my zing make she prepare a delicious meal for you guys....

italo:


In the anti-Catholic mind: if I say the Psalmist was not praying, I will sound silly. If I say the Psalmist was praying, it would mean the Catholics are right to ask for intercession. I will rather beat around the bush or change the topic.

Lol, now let's watch the drama unfold.

Honourhim please honour her!

She more than deserves it, the blessed virgin Mary of course.

Rich4god:
Lol.... @syncan and italo.... I can only laf out loud.... I go tell my zing make she prepare a delicious meal for you guys....

Abeg make your zing prepare food for Johnw47 too o.

You know say hunger sef dey make person confuse.