Nihilist:


Lol

There are so many reasons why those statistics are very misleading.

Firstly, comparing both players on a per 90 metric is completely wrong, when there is such a huge gap in the number of minutes played between the two.

To test this out, run the exact same comparisons between Matic and Coquelin on a per 90 metric. Come back and testify if the story the stats suggest tell an accurate story. Or do Phil Jones and John Terry. or maybe De Gea and Ospina.

Secondly, Valencia played as a winger and central midfield for some parts if the campaign last term, Clyne was a full back. I'll let you guess who should have naturally have more take ons...and more chances created.

There's a reason why there are so many gifs posted on this thread by your fellow fans to highlight some poor defending and attacking from Valencia. There's a reason you said this less than two weeks ago:


Because sometimes....the stats just don't add up

this is the most ridiculous excuse i have read here since elampawa claimed the criticism we give rooney here on NL affected him to perform well in a game.

if you cannot use per-90 metric, what then should one use? per-90 metric is the most accurate stat one can use to compare 2 players with different time-shift. valencia was better than clyne last season. no ifs, no buts!

numbers don't lie......

coogar:


this is the most ridiculous excuse i have read here since elampawa claimed the criticism we give rooney here on NL affected him to perform well in a game.

if you cannot use per-90 metric, what then should one use? per-90 metric is the most accurate stat one can use to compare 2 players with different time-shift. [size=18pt]valencia was better than clyne last season. no ifs, no buts![/size]
numbers don't lie......

That's not what YOU said only a few weeks ago.

Anyway, the reason per 90 comparison metrics are not entirely suitable when there is a massive disparity in overall minutes, is that the statistics are naturally skewed to favour the smaller sample size.

That's why I asked you to get Goalkeeping stats per 90 to compare De Gea and Ospina for last season, and then post it here. I'm sure that would prove to you that Ospina is better than DDG

Again, I'm not arguing who is better...I only pointed out the flaw in sirCumalot's method of comparison.


There is a reason you said this at the end of May.

coogar:


once we buy clyne, valencia would warm the bench. there's no way valencia would start as a RB for us next season.....and he's not even good enough to displace mata in the team. tell your idol to start packing his bags.



that's easy now.
i can name 7 league games in my head that valencia started as a RB last season. even in the games where he was RM, he was the culprit to the goals we conceded. he allowed oviedo to get a win for everton last season due to his ball watching.




valencia looked like a tourist in the box.



nothing to do with herrera.
if valencia was in position, hazard wouldn't have scored. it's unthinkable to believe midfielders won't lose a battle....this is why we have defenders. hazard ran close to 30 yards before slotting the ball in. where was valencia that was supposed to be marking that zone?



abeggi....
so rafael was the reason we conceded 5 goals against leicester? it wasn't rooney assisting the opponents or blackett brainfarting or mata slipping? you dunno your football.

Nihilist:


*insert opata yarns*

average per game.. We may slam Valencia all day but don't insult him with this clyne comparison..

Nihilist:

That's not what YOU said only a few weeks ago.

what did i say?

Anyway, the reason per 90 comparison metrics are not entirely suitable when there is a massive disparity in overall minutes, is that the statistics are naturally skewed to favour the smaller sample size.

nah....
it doesn't - they both have a huge number of minutes on the pitch for stats to favour a lower number. what are you talking about?

That's why I asked you to get Goalkeeping stats per 90 to compare De Gea and Ospina for last season, and then post it here. I'm sure that would prove to you that Ospina is better than DDG

goalies are only as good as the defence before them. with moröns like evans & jones playing in front of de gea, it's not hard to see why de gea would concede more goals. you need to first look at the number of shots we concede before you can analyse the difference between de gea & ospina.

if de gea had a stable defence in front of him like courtois did, he would have conceded nothing more than 15 league goals all season.

Again, I'm not arguing who is better...I only pointed out the flaw in sirCumalot's method of comparison.

his method of comparison is very solid!
per 90 metrics is the most accurate of all statistics. they ripped the numbers down per minute & then multiplied it by 90. what is the flaw in it?

There is a reason you said this at the end of May.

so?
valencia is mediocre as a right back but even in his mediocrity, he's better than clyne! how is this difficult to understand. if 60% is better than 50% does that make 60% a score to kill for? united fans want 90% as RB, something neither valencia nor clyne can offer.

leggo:

average per game.. We may slam Valencia all day but don't insult him with this clyne comparison..

average per game is actually worse.
it compares players who are subs that played only 4 mins in the game to players who completed 90 mins.

per 90 metrics is the best statistical data. it considers every minute spent on the pitch by the respective players. valencia was better than clyne last season.....no ifs, no buts!

Truly, we need an upgrade on Valencia but not with Clyne. I've never rated Clyne.

UniqueGem:
Yeah he took a pay cut to join chelsea, remember its a case of having no choice because even his parent club were fearful of his decline. So lets just say all in the name of having a roof over his head, he agreed to stay in a kiosk under the bridge. LOL!!! Its amazing how Lord Fowlcow is now your headache.

he will come good at chelsea just watch.

leggo:


average per game.. We may slam Valencia all day but don't insult him with this clyne comparison..

Mate I've no interest in comparing both players....

Can you please give us Matic v Coquelin per game or per 90 with all the defensive and passing stats?

Or DDG v Ospina?

If per 90 metrics or per game metrics prove that Val is better than Clyne, then the same should hold true in the other two examples, no?

Disprove my 'Opata yarns' once and for all.

coogar:


what did i say?



nah....
it doesn't - they both have a huge number of minutes on the pitch for stats to favour a lower number. what are you talking about?




goalies are only as good as the defence before them. with moröns like evans & jones playing in front of de gea, it's not hard to see why de gea would concede more goals. you need to first look at the number of shots we concede before you can analyse the difference between de gea & ospina.

if de gea had a stable defence in front of him like courtois did, he would have conceded nothing more than 15 league goals all season.



his method of comparison is very solid!
per 90 metrics is the most accurate of all statistics. they ripped the numbers down per minute & then multiplied it by 90. what is the flaw in it?



so?
valencia is mediocre as a right back but even in his mediocrity, he's better than clyne! how is this difficult to understand. if 60% is better than 50% does that make 60% a score to kill for? united fans want 90% as RB, something neither valencia nor clyne can offer.




average per game is actually worse.
it compares players who are subs that played only 4 mins in the game to players who completed 90 mins.

per 90 metrics is the best statistical data. it considers every minute spent on the pitch by the respective players. valencia was better than clyne last season.....no ifs, no buts!

So Clyne will not bench Valencia and send him packing?

Nihilist:

So Clyne will not bench Valencia and send him packing?

united fans want a natural fullback in the fullback position. valencia is not a natural fullback but if we compare their stats based on last season, valencia performed better than clyne.

Nihilist:

Mate I've no interest in comparing both players....

Can you please give us Matic v Coquelin per game or per 90 with all the defensive and passing stats?

coquelin is better than matic
before blind was moved to the LB position, he was also better than matic. matic's edge is the fact that he plays for a better team so he gets talked about a lot. matic is technically awkward!

Or DDG v Ospina?

If per 90 metrics or per game metrics prove that Val is better than Clyne, then the same should hold true in the other two examples, no?

Disprove my 'Opata yarns' once and for all.

DDG is better than ospina....
ospina has a better defence unit in front of him than de gea does & the defence protects the goalie!

Nihilist:


Mate I've no interest in comparing both players....

Can you please give us Matic v Coquelin per game or per 90 with all the defensive and passing stats?

Or DDG v Ospina?

If per 90 metrics or per game metrics prove that Val is better than Clyne, then the same should hold true in the other two examples, no?

Disprove my 'Opata yarns' once and for all.

you want me to rain on your matic parade??

Nihilist:


Mate I've no interest in comparing both players....

Can you please give us Matic v Coquelin per game or per 90 with all the defensive and passing stats?

Or DDG v Ospina?

If per 90 metrics or per game metrics prove that Val is better than Clyne, then the same should hold true in the other two examples, no?

Disprove my 'Opata yarns' once and for all.

But Coquelin is better than Matic.

leggo:

you want me to rain on your matic parade??

Please.

Everyone says Valencia is not a natural full back, and an upgrade is needed.

Manyoo has been linked to Clyne and Coleman.

Using the very criteria you posted....Valencia is better than both!

So who's next?

Lets look at Ivanovic who was clearly the best RB in the league last year....guess what? Valencia wins again!

How about Pablo Zabaleta? Valencia murders him too.

Dont believe me? Click this opata link below

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/antonio_valencia/165/126/581/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/seamus_coleman/165/126/467/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/branislav_ivanovic/165/126/438/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/pablo_zabaleta/165/126/544/0/p#interceptions/blocks/clearances/defence_score/pass_completion/successful_take_ons#90

So where do we go from here?

Keky:
But Coquelin is better than Matic.

Tah! Mechionu gi!!

Nihilist:


Please.

Everyone says Valencia is not a natural full back, and an upgrade is needed.

Manyoo has been linked to Clyne and Coleman.

Using the very criteria you posted....Valencia is better than both!

So who's next?

Lets look at Ivanovic who was clearly the best RB in the league last year....guess what? Valencia wins again!

How about Pablo Zabaleta? Valencia murders him too.

Dont believe me? Click this opata link below

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/antonio_valencia/165/126/581/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/seamus_coleman/165/126/467/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/branislav_ivanovic/165/126/438/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/pablo_zabaleta/165/126/544/0/p#interceptions/blocks/clearances/defence_score/pass_completion/successful_take_ons#90

So where do we go from here?

that is why we are interested in ramos & not the idïots parading themselves as full backs in the premier league. if rafael is fit, he's easily the best RB in the league. however, his fitness & injury curse is a let down.

Leggo I hope you do the honourable thing and apologise for the 'Opata yarns' jibe

Unless, maybe I'm wrong and Valencia is actually the best Right Back in the league.

coogar:


that is why we are interested in ramos & not the idïots parading themselves as full backs in the premier league. if rafael is fit, he's easily the best RB in the league. however, his fitness & injury curse is a let down.

You haven't actually answered the question.

You clearly stated that Clyne would bench Val and send him packing. Is that still the case?

Nihilist:

You haven't actually answered the question.

You clearly stated that Clyne would bench Val and send him packing. Is that still the case?

how can that be the case?
clyne is now in liverpool!

Nihilist:

Please.
Everyone says Valencia is not a natural full back, and an upgrade is needed.
Manyoo has been linked to Clyne and Coleman.
Using the very criteria you posted....Valencia is better than both!
So who's next?
Lets look at Ivanovic who was clearly the best RB in the league last year....guess what? Valencia wins again!
How about Pablo Zabaleta? Valencia murders him too.
Dont believe me? Click this opata link below
http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/antonio_valencia/165/126/581/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/seamus_coleman/165/126/467/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/branislav_ivanovic/165/126/438/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/pablo_zabaleta/165/126/544/0/p#interceptions/blocks/clearances/defence_score/pass_completion/successful_take_ons#90
So where do we go from here?

lol.. Ivanovich as the best rb in the league last season, statement of fact or opinion the only fullback linked to UTD this season I wanted was Alves

Nihilist:
Leggo I hope you do the honourable thing and apologise for the 'Opata yarns' jibe

Unless, maybe I'm wrong and Valencia is actually the best Right Back in the league.

as a matter of fact , he just might be.. don't fall for your own fallacious trap.. Man Utd fans slamming Valencia doesn't automatically make others better... Chelsea fan, you know it is what happens on the pitch that becomes stats??

leggo:

as a matter of fact , he just might be.. don't fall for your own fallacious trap.. Man Utd fans slamming Valencia doesn't automatically make others better ... Chelsea fan, you know it is what happens on the pitch that becomes stats??

he's struggling to cope with that simple logic..

just because we slam valencia does not make other fullbacks in the league better than him. one of my pet peeves concerning valencia's flaws is the ready made excuses he gets whenever he brainfarts. his fans quickly say "but he's not a natural fullback"

i want a natural fullback.
any fullback we buy is going to replace valencia. the only reason we would buy a fullback in the first place is because LVG does not quite trust valencia in that role. we won't buy a top tier fullback to come & sit on the bench for valencia.

leggo:

lol.. Ivanovich as the best rb in the league last season, statement of fact or opinion the only fullback linked to UTD this season I wanted was Alves

Using your own criteria, Valencia was actually better than Dani Alves last year. Infact of all the names linked to Manyoo, only Sergio Ramos was slightly better than Val last year.

See





Like I told you earlier, There is a reason the lads I quoted were initially loving Clyne until recently....and stats had nothing to do with it.

leggo:

as a matter of fact , he just might be.. don't fall for your own fallacious trap.. Man Utd fans slamming Valencia doesn't automatically make others better... Chelsea fan, you know it is what happens on the pitch that becomes stats??

Lol so your pride has now led you to imply that Val is one of the best Rbs in the league?

Human behaviour is sooooo interesting.

breaking news.....

Nihilist:




Because sometimes....the stats just don't add up

I thought Clyne was way better than Valencia till somebody responded with that squakwa comparison I reposted above.
Now, since I don't watch many Soton's game
I took his word that was backed with very convincing stat.

Nihilist:


Using your own criteria, Valencia was actually better than Dani Alves last year. Infact of all the names linked to Manyoo, only Sergio Ramos was slightly better than Val last year.

See [url]Here[/url=http://www.squawka.com/comparisonmatrix#premier_league/2014/2015/antonio_valencia/165/126/581/0/p|la_liga/2014/2015/sergio_ramos/136/136/303/0/p|la_liga/2014/2015/dani_alves/136/136/1571/0/p#interceptions/blocks/clearances/defence_score/pass_completion/successful_take_ons/total_forward_passes#90]



Like I told you earlier, There is a reason the lads I quoted were initially loving Clyne until recently....and stats had nothing to do with it.



Lol so your pride has now led you to imply that Val is one of the best Rbs in the league?

Human behaviour is sooooo interesting.

you quoted others and base the conclusion of our discourse on that? Alves was my choice because he was a free agent, have you seen me clamoring for Ramos? I don't need pride to to realise clyne,Coleman et al are inferior players

leggo:

you quoted others and base the conclusion of our discourse on that? Alves was my choice because he was a free agent, have you seen me clamoring for Ramos? I don't need pride to to realise clyne,Coleman et al are inferior players

But Valencia is better than Alves according to your stats....do you agree?

Nihilist:


But Valencia is better than Alves according to your stats....do you agree?

being the mischievous little person you are , you omitted chances created, assists from your comparison. alves had a brilliant 2nd half of season. Val defended better but offensively alves was killing it

leggo:

being the mischievous little person you are , you omitted chances created, assists from your comparison. alves had a brilliant 2nd half of season. Val defended better but offensively alves was killing it

how much defending does alves actually get to do when they hug possession 89% of the time? i don't trust nihilist's stats, he has doctored it to suit his argument.

coogar:
breaking news.....

Hmmm. RVP is off/on his way out. Who is next? Rooney?

leggo:

being the mischievous little person you are , you omitted chances created, assists from your comparison. alves had a brilliant 2nd half of season. Val defended better but offensively alves was killing it

Ok I apologise for that omission

You gave 9 criteria. Valencia beat Alves in 7 of those.

Valencia is clearly better no?

#OpataYarns

coogar:


how much defending does alves actually get to do when they hug possession 89% of the time? i don't trust nihilist's stats, he has doctored it to suit his argument.

Oya you post it.

We both know that you know better.

It's leggo that is just stubbornly refusing to admit that Stats only tell a small part of the story.

He said we shouldn't insult Val by comparing him to Clyne....but look at the mental gymnastics he's performing when confronted with the awful truth

Leggo, I'll leave it jare. All i was trying to point out is that an over-reliance on stats on this board can lead us to some truly ludicrous conclusions.

Most times, your eyes are better than these useless stats

Nihilist:




Oya you post it.

We both know that you know better.

It's leggo that is just stubbornly refusing to admit that Stats only tell a small part of the story.

He said we shouldn't insult Val by comparing him to Clyne....but look at the mental gymnastics he's performing when confronted with the awful truth

Leggo, I'll leave it jare. All i was trying to point out is that an over-reliance on stats on this board can lead us to some truly ludicrous conclusions.

Most times, your eyes are better than these useless stats

how's ramos only slightly better than valencia when stats show that he destroyed valencia in all the relevant stats compiled? slightly??

nihilist, is there something that happens on a field of play that cannot be recorded statistically?