luckyCO:


Maybe you didn't read through my write-up.
No man I mean real man pays too much attention to his mother I mean none. You have things you are called to do.
But I don't know what you mean by paying too much attention.

There is attention due to your parents when you are with them and attention when you are not with them.

Do you mean giving them money,taking care of them is what you should have been doing to God instead whom you dont see?

But all these cannot answer question which we are talking about between Creator and created.

800Billion Mary cannot amount to a strand of God's hair.

800Billion of my mother cannot amount to a strand of God's hair, so why are we making so doctrine with the creature instead of the Creator.

God bless you dear.

The bold apply to Mary too.

Every Christian has doctrines about creatures.

"You must love your neighbour"

"Pray for one another"

"Honour your father and mother"

Those are doctrines about how to relate to creatures.

You're confused.

luckyCO:

Yes you can shift your attention from God to your pastor, priest, Pope if God encountered you through them if you dont know the Word.
When Cornelius wanted to worship Peter, he quickly reacted that he is just a man like.
God want us see Himself in action by giving our parents,pastors,priest etc grace to take care of us such we will know how much God loves us by what we see around such that nobody will doubt that God exist. Rom 1:1-end.
In gentile dispensation, God is not dealing with us as group of people such as catholic, anglican, methodist, pentecostal etc because there is no such thing in heaven, He deals with us individually and that is how your salvation will come.
You know when anti-Christ will come if it is possible he will deceive the very elect. You dont know they are in every church that is why you need to live your life in the Word. We build our in Apostles and Prophet and Christ the chief Cornerstone.
We all know when all these prayers to Mary entered catholic they were not there before. In 'Vatican 0 (Apostolic time)' it was not there. It came in Vatican 1 became evident in Vatican 2 and finally the whole attention will be shifted from God to man in supposed Vatican 3.
I believed same doctrine with you until God quickened my spirit to the meaning of salvation and I throw them away and begin to look on to Christ.
Do I tell people to pray for me yes I do, if God quickens to me that He has given you (italo) grace to assist me solving my challenge I will involve you on the basis that it is God working in All. Because He gave some Apostles,Prophet,Pastor,teacher and evangelist to build up the body. You may abuse your grace by demanding excess respect which in turn give more attention to you more than God, that is where the problem is.
God is All in All through Christ.
God bless you.

Aha! Suddenly supplication to creatures is no more an abomination, it is now good.

I have told you what your problem is.

Pray that God improves you reasoning...and gives you the grace to use it well.

italo:


Those people that went to meet Peter, that took the apostles' handkerchief for healing, that brought their sick so that Peter's shadow can heal them...were they shifting attention from God?

You give supplication to your pastor. "Pastor pray for me" "pastor help me"

Satan is shifting your attention from God?

Your problem is a deficiency in reasoning. You should humble yourself and learn from those who think better than you and the Church which was given authority to teach you.

I love dis point. Dat is d spirit

luckyCO:



Yes you can shift your attention from God to your pastor, priest, Pope if God encountered you through them if you dont know the Word.
When Cornelius wanted to worship Peter, he quickly reacted that he is just a man like.
God want us see Himself in action by giving our parents,pastors,priest etc grace to take care of us such we will know how much God loves us by what we see around such that nobody will doubt that God exist. Rom 1:1-end.

In gentile dispensation, God is not dealing with us as group of people such as catholic, anglican, methodist, pentecostal etc because there is no such thing in heaven, He deals with us individually and that is how your salvation will come.

You know when anti-Christ will come if it is possible he will deceive the very elect. You dont know they are in every church that is why you need to live your life in the Word. We build our in Apostles and Prophet and Christ the chief Cornerstone.
We all know when all these prayers to Mary entered catholic they were not there before. In 'Vatican 0 (Apostolic time)' it was not there. It came in Vatican 1 became evident in Vatican 2 and finally the whole attention will be shifted from God to man in supposed Vatican 3.

I believed same doctrine with you until God quickened my spirit to the meaning of salvation and I throw them away and begin to look on to Christ.
Do I tell people to pray for me yes I do, if God quickens to me that He has given you (italo) grace to assist me solving my challenge I will involve you on the basis that it is God working in All. Because He gave some Apostles,Prophet,Pastor,teacher and evangelist to build up the body. You may abuse your grace by demanding excess respect which in turn give more attention to you more than God, that is where the problem is.

God is All in All through Christ.
God bless you.

Bros wu told u dt dose prayers were nt in d ist vertican nd do we hv vertican 0? Afta d death of Christ, dey took d body of Jesus down 4rm d cross nd press him 2 Mary's bosom. Mary was d ist 2 knw dt Jesus has risen 4rm d death, She was d 1 wu told d disciples, she was d 1 dt d angel instructed 2 tel d Disciples dt Dey shld meet him in Galili, Bros ar u seeing her role?

italo:
The bold apply to Mary too.

Every Christian has doctrines about creatures.

"You must love your neighbour"

"Pray for one another"

"Honour your father and mother"

Those are doctrines about how to relate to creatures.

You're confused.

God bless you my dear.
I dont expect less than what you are saying. It is normal because I did more than you are doing but thanks be to God.

Jusmudi:

Bros wu told u dt dose prayers were nt in d ist vertican nd do we hv vertican 0? Afta d death of Christ, dey took d body of Jesus down 4rm d cross nd press him 2 Mary's bosom. Mary was d ist 2 knw dt Jesus has risen 4rm d death, She was d 1 wu told d disciples, she was d 1 dt d angel instructed 2 tel d Disciples dt Dey shld meet him in Galili, Bros ar u seeing her role?

Sir you are mixing two Mary here.
One is Mary mother of Christ
Another is Mary Magdalene.

Correct it such that your point can be clear.

'Vatican 0 (Apostolic time)' to refer to a time when Roman State Law has not mixed with Christianity.
It was after then we have Vatican 1,2 and 3 is ready now.

italo:
The bold apply to Mary too.

Every Christian has doctrines about creatures.

"You must love your neighbour"

"Pray for one another"

"Honour your father and mother"

Those are doctrines about how to relate to creatures.

You're confused.

If you had submitted and accepted my comment I would have known that what am saying is not correct.
Because I knew how I felt when people challenged Roman tradition before me.
I even expected name calling from you,why because you know if only one of your doctrines is faulted then the whole doctrines are questionable.

God bless you and I ask God to reveal Himself to us all.

Only christians who are still alive on earth can pray for their fellow christians. The dead or christians who have gone into eternity cannot do so. Remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Christians pray through ONLY one Man to God- Jesus Christ.

luckyCO:

Sir you are mixing two Mary here.
One is Mary mother of Christ
Another is Mary Magdalene.

Correct it such that your point can be clear.

'Vatican 0 (Apostolic time)' to refer to a time when Roman State Law has not mixed with Christianity.
It was after then we have Vatican 1,2 and 3 is ready now.

Chief is nt only Mary magdalene bt also our mother(d mother of God) nd the issue of vertican0, Bros it did nt exist or hv nt heard abt it

luckyCO:


If you had submitted and accepted my comment I would have known that what am saying is not correct.
Because I knew how I felt when people challenged Roman tradition before me.
I even expected name calling from you,why because you know if only one of your doctrines is faulted then the whole doctrines are questionable.

God bless you and I ask God to reveal Himself to us all.

What you are saying is contradictory and even contradicting the bible.

You say we shouldn't have doctrines about creatures but the bible gives us doctrines about creatures.

You said supplication to creatures is bad then when I showed you how the bible encourages supplication to creatures, you made a u-turn and supplication to humans miraculously became good.

Like I advised, spend less time on nairaland and work on your thinking skills.

You're not thinking well.

Barnabaseloka:
Only christians who are still alive on earth can pray for their fellow christians. The dead or christians who have gone into eternity cannot do so. Remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Christians pray through ONLY one Man to God- Jesus Christ.

Read Rev;5;8
1Timothy 2:1-4
Rev 6:10 Note: Dey cried out wit a loud voice , ' O sovereign Lord, holy nd true, how long b4 u ll judge nd avenge our blood on those who dwell on earth?" this verse mentions believers who are in heaven praying to the Lord regarding those on earth.
Luke 15:10 Jesus says "just so, I tell u. There is joy b4 the angels of God over one sinner who repents." who are those who rejoice? This could refer 2 Angels, saints in heaven, Christ or most likely all of the above. If those in heaven are aware of those on earth who repent, could it also be true these same saints are praying for the repentance of those who are lost?
Jas 5:6-18

Barnabaseloka:
Only christians who are still alive on earth can pray for their fellow christians. The dead or christians who have gone into eternity cannot do so. Remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Christians pray through ONLY one Man to God- Jesus Christ.

Rev5:8 When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Right now in heaven, the elders are offering my prayers to God.

Alleluia!

italo:


Rev5:8 When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Right now in heaven, the elders are offering my prayers to God.

Alleluia!

Bros nt 4 u only Ooo
Bt 4 u nd ur family nd 4 I nd my family also including all those who Blivs in intercession

Jusmudi:

Bros nt 4 u only Ooo
Bt 4 u nd ur family nd 4 I nd my family also including all those who Blivs in intercession

Amen

luckyCO:

Sir you are mixing two Mary here.
One is Mary mother of Christ
Another is Mary Magdalene.

Correct it such that your point can be clear.

'Vatican 0 (Apostolic time)' to refer to a time when Roman State Law has not mixed with Christianity.
It was after then we have Vatican 1,2 and 3 is ready now.

Oh, so Roman state law brought in the Marian prayers into christianity?!! Please let us know where the Christian church established by Jesus is today.

btoks:

Oh, so Roman state law brought in the Marian prayers into christianity?!! Please let us know where the Christian church established by Jesus is today.

Christ did not establish any church(organization), he established The Way of life. People called that way of Life Christians, Catholics(Universal Spiritual Body of Christ-Mystic Body), Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist, Pentecostal etc.

You are a member of Christ body if you have been justified,sanctified by the blood and you have received the Holy Ghost.
It doesn't matter which church name you attend, you will soon know the truth as practiced by Apostolic fathers and prophets because you have received the Spirit of truth and you will soon start rejecting anything not in line teachings of Christ until you have become like Christ, Eph. 3:17, 4:13.

If you are a believer and you see one on your way, the spirit in you bears witness that you are of same family and that is the Church Christ established.

The religious argument we made here is because we dont have same spirit or not matured enough, if we have received the spirit of truth the same thing the member of RCC(Who have received the Spirit of Truth) believe will also be what the Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist, pentecostal believe because they are of same Spirit and they are not under church title they belong but have sold their life to God and you see they will soon be under persecution by those Churches the belong if the head/ministers of the Church have not received same Spirit of truth which they have received.

It is God's reserved right to give the Holy Ghost and that makes you a member of Christ's Church (Body) then you will start bearing fruits of Holy Ghost.
Thanks

italo:


Rev5:8 When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Right now in heaven, the elders are offering my prayers to God.

Alleluia!

My dear your interpretation is not correct.
Your meaning of saints is different from the meaning of Saints in the Bible. We have living Saints and those that are resting already

Jusmudi:

Chief is nt only Mary magdalene bt also our mother(d mother of God) nd the issue of vertican0, Bros it did nt exist or hv nt heard abt it

I used the word(vertican0) to refer to a period am not saying we have vertican0

italo:
What you are saying is contradictory and even contradicting the bible.

You say we shouldn't have doctrines about creatures but the bible gives us doctrines about creatures.

You said supplication to creatures is bad then when I showed you how the bible encourages supplication to creatures, you made a u-turn and supplication to humans miraculously became good.

Like I advised, spend less time on nairaland and work on your thinking skills.

You're not thinking well.

Ok sir, I pray God to give me grace to be thinking well.
Check what am saying very well, you talked about supplication and it is only made to God alone now you asked why do people asked one another for prayers which I have also answered you.
You can spot the different.

I asked you italo to pray for me and you did and God heard me.
Should I make a doctrine that everybody must be asking you italo for prayers?
Will I go a build Statue and tell people this is Italo that God used to answer my Prayer?
Will I go and begin to compose many songs in the honor of Italo whom God used to answer my Prayer even when believers gather to worship God?
Will I begin to invoke italo's name through recitation and begin to teach my children to do so if they want to get to Christ?
Will I compile beautiful things about italo and establish them as dogma and begin to tech them to my generation?

You know what am saying about but until you are quickened you will continue to speak they way you do.
God bless you.

Jusmudi:

Chief is nt only Mary magdalene bt also our mother(d mother of God) nd the issue of vertican0, Bros it did nt exist or hv nt heard abt it

A boy who had evil spirit but was delivered once called Mary mother of God and I asked him;
If I call your mother the mother of that evil spirit that was disturbing you will she accept it and he said no and I asked why, because her mother gave birth to a human being not evil spirit and she his mother didn't know where the evil spirit came from.

Catholic catechism defined as God Supreme Spirit who existed alone having no beginning nor end, The Creator and Lord of lords.
So how can human being give birth to Spirit?

Jusmudi:

Chief is nt only Mary magdalene bt also our mother(d mother of God) nd the issue of vertican0, Bros it did nt exist or hv nt heard abt it

Afta d death of Christ, dey took d body of Jesus down 4rm d cross nd press him 2 Mary's bosom[b](Mary mother of Christ)[/b]. Mary was d ist 2 knw dt Jesus has risen 4rm d death[b](Mary Magdalene)[/b], She was d 1 wu told d disciples[b](Mary Magdalene)[/b], she was d 1 dt d angel instructed 2 tel d Disciples dt Dey shld meet him in Galili[b](Mary Magdalene)[/b]

You attributed all this statement to Mary mother of Christ, just want you to get it clear such that your point will be very very clear.

I once heard an ordained heavily anointed charismatic priest supporting celibacy and he said ;
The mother of Jesus gave birth to only him
The mother of Moses gave birth to only him and Moses did not marry.
When I got home I checked and discovered Aron and Marian as brother and sister of Moses and also Moses married.

What you need to do is pray to God for Spirit of revelation and them study your Bible to cross check all the doctrines you have believed, anyone that contradict the Bible take it aside and move on.
Because if you believe what you are not supposed to in order to justified a doctrine on the judgement day not even pope will defend you.

God bless you.

luckyCO:

Christ did not establish any church(organization), he established The Way of life. People called that way of Life Christians, Catholics(Universal Spiritual Body of Christ-Mystic Body), Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist, Pentecostal etc.

You are a member of Christ body if you have been justified,sanctified by the blood and you have received the Holy Ghost.
It doesn't matter which church name you attend, you will soon know the truth as practiced by Apostolic fathers and prophets because you have received the Spirit of truth and you will soon start rejecting anything not in line teachings of Christ until you have become like Christ, Eph. 3:17, 4:13.

If you are a believer and you see one on your way, the spirit in you bears witness that you are of same family and that is the Church Christ established.

The religious argument we made here is because we dont have same spirit or not matured enough, if we have received the spirit of truth the same thing the member of RCC(Who have received the Spirit of Truth) believe will also be what the Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist, pentecostal believe because they are of same Spirit and they are not under church title they belong but have sold their life to God and you see they will soon be under persecution by those Churches the belong if the head/ministers of the Church have not received same Spirit of truth which they have received.

It is God's reserved right to give the Holy Ghost and that makes you a member of Christ's Church (Body) then you will start bearing fruits of Holy Ghost.
Thanks

You'll find that you're well mistaken on no church being established,early christianity was one church. The denominations you listed only started after the protestant revolution of the 16th century, pentecostal even much later.
Your other points hold no water and directly conflict with the way christianity has been practiced.Please read through Acts 15 to see what happened when there was a teaching that had to be clarified.Everyone went back to the church(in effect the first council) to get the issue clarified. This practice carried on over the centuries to confirm the books of the bible, the communion of saints (intercessory prayers like this the OP),etc

All the denominations you mentioned teach different doctrines,how do we know what is true?
Your point of view about personally knowing the true spirit.... stems from Martin Luther,Calvin and Zwingli theories in the 16th century.

Jusmudi:

1. Read Rev;5;8
2. 1Timothy 2:1-4
3. Rev 6:10 Note: Dey cried out wit a loud voice , ' O sovereign Lord, holy nd true, how long b4 u ll judge nd avenge our blood on those who dwell on earth?" this verse mentions believers who are in heaven praying to the Lord regarding those on earth.
4. Luke 15:10 Jesus says "just so, I tell u. There is joy b4 the angels of God over one sinner who repents." who are those who rejoice? This could refer 2 Angels, saints in heaven, Christ or most likely all of the above. If those in heaven are aware of those on earth who repent, could it also be true these same saints are praying for the repentance of those who are lost?
5. Jas 5:6-18

1. The prayers are from the saints on earth. No saint who has gone into eternity can intercede for the saints living on earth.
2. Was Paul writing to dead saints or to those still living on earth at that time? Read 1 Tim.2:5.
3. They did not pray for anyone on earth, but cried out for vengence for their death.
4. The saints in heaven are resting (sleeping) waiting for the resurrection day. It is obvious the joy is not done by the saints who are asleep. The angels do the rejoicing over one sinner that repents on earth.
5. I don't understand how the place you quoted relates to the topic discussed.

italo:


Rev5:8 When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Right now in heaven, the elders are offering my prayers to God.

Alleluia!

Yes, the elders offered the prayers of the saints to God in the form of incense. . When the saints on earth pray, the elders present the prayers to God, but never do the praying themselves.

luckyCO:

Christ did not establish any church(organization), he established The Way of life. People called that way of Life Christians, Catholics(Universal Spiritual Body of Christ-Mystic Body), Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist, Pentecostal etc.

You are a member of Christ body if you have been justified,sanctified by the blood and you have received the Holy Ghost.
It doesn't matter which church name you attend, you will soon know the truth as practiced by Apostolic fathers and prophets because you have received the Spirit of truth and you will soon start rejecting anything not in line teachings of Christ until you have become like Christ, Eph. 3:17, 4:13.

If you are a believer and you see one on your way, the spirit in you bears witness that you are of same family and that is the Church Christ established.

The religious argument we made here is because we dont have same spirit or not matured enough, if we have received the spirit of truth the same thing the member of RCC(Who have received the Spirit of Truth) believe will also be what the Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist, pentecostal believe because they are of same Spirit and they are not under church title they belong but have sold their life to God and you see they will soon be under persecution by those Churches the belong if the head/ministers of the Church have not received same Spirit of truth which they have received.

It is God's reserved right to give the Holy Ghost and that makes you a member of Christ's Church (Body) then you will start bearing fruits of Holy Ghost.
Thanks

Bros to tel u dt Jesus created the church(catholic) read mat 16:18-19 " And I tell u that u are peter, on this rock I ll build my Church nd the gates of hades ll never overcome it"

Barnabaseloka:

1. The prayers are from the saints on earth. No saint who has gone into eternity can intercede for the saints living on earth.
2. Was Paul writing to dead saints or to those still living on earth at that time? Read 1 Tim.2:5.
3. They did not pray for anyone on earth, but cried out for vengence for their death.
4. The saints in heaven are resting (sleeping) waiting for the resurrection day. It is obvious the joy is not done by the saints who are asleep. The angels do the rejoicing over one sinner that repents on earth.
5. I don't understand how the place you quoted relates to the topic discussed.

Bros read dt place again abt those rejoicing nd u ll understand it.
Secondly abt d saints praying, yes Dey prayed nd d Elders nd d living creatures took dia petitions 2 God
Thirdly mat 18:10 "reminding the pipo dat d angels in heaven always see d face of my father" intreceding
further more u mentioned abt I timothy 2:5 yes Jesus is d only mediator, yes He his because he is d only person who brought us closer to God
Finally I ll commend ur effort 4 Blivin dt dere is God, Angels, Mary, saints, Elders, nd four living creatures, I Bliv wit tim u ll accept dis
Thanks broda

btoks:

You'll find that you're well mistaken on no church being established,early christianity was one church. The denominations you listed only started after the protestant revolution of the 16th century, pentecostal even much later.
Your other points hold no water and directly conflict with the way christianity has been practiced.Please read through Acts 15 to see what happened when there was a teaching that had to be clarified.Everyone went back to the church(in effect the first council) to get the issue clarified. This practice carried on over the centuries to confirm the books of the bible, the communion of saints (intercessory prayers like this the OP),etc

All the denominations you mentioned teach different doctrines,how do we know what is true?
Your point of view about personally knowing the true spirit.... stems from Martin Luther,Calvin and Zwingli theories in the 16th century.

This is exactly what you where told dear,please check the history yourself and you will see what happened. Read both catholic and protestant side of the story you discover how devil entered the church and when it entered.

I used to make these claims as ;
Catholic is first church funded by Christ
Pope is president of a country and of the biggest church in the world etc.
But when I checked I discovered God in His simplicity and I throw them away because they dont have salvation virtue. I should be ashamed that a church having Over 1.2billion members couldn't change the world spiritually positive.
That means God doesn't work with crowd.

If you are satisfied with the way catholic church and other churches are today, then I will advice you to review what makes you comfortable.
Meanwhile Christ will not judge us by roman catholic, anglican, methodist nor pentecostal doctrine/dogma/creed, He will judge us as it is written.

btoks:
All the denominations you mentioned teach different doctrines,how do we know what is true?.

We have inner witness (the Spirit of truth) so if you say what is true and I have Spirit of truth I should be able to identify it and follow it, that is why we dont framework ourselves when it has to do with salvation.

God bless you.

no excuse

Jusmudi:

Bros to tel u dt Jesus created the church(catholic) read mat 16:18-19 " And I tell u that u are peter, on this rock I ll build my Church nd the gates of hades ll never overcome it"

He said you are peter upon this rock...
The same way Christ said destroy this temple in 3days I build it.
He was not pointing at peter when He was saying it neither was he pointing at the temple when he was saying It also. That is why Jews mis-understood Him and that is same reason you mis-understand that verse.

This rock means rock of revelation of whom Christ is.
Peter did something before Christ said that.
God revealed to peter whom Christ is.
Dear if you have revelation of whom Christ is your christian view will change and gate of hell will not prevail against you.

Jusmudi:

Bros read dt place again abt those rejoicing nd u ll understand it.
Secondly abt d saints praying, yes Dey prayed nd d Elders nd d living creatures took dia petitions 2 God
Thirdly mat 18:10 "reminding the pipo dat d angels in heaven always see d face of my father" intreceding
further more u mentioned abt I timothy 2:5 yes Jesus is d only mediator, yes He his because he is d only person who brought us closer to God
Finally I ll commend ur effort 4 Blivin dt dere is God, Angels, Mary, saints, Elders, nd four living creatures, I Bliv wit tim u ll accept dis
Thanks broda

Thank you also. Know that even the angels cannot pray for the saints. They only carry the messages/prayers of the saints on earth to God, but never do the praying themselves. They act as messengers and not intercessors. There are only three people that intercede for the saints living on earth-
1. The saints living on earth do pray for their fellow saints on earth.
2. The Holy Spirit who helps the saints on earth to pray to God.
3. The Lord, Jesus Christ.

Barnabaseloka:

Thank you also. Know that even the angels cannot pray for the saints. They only carry the messages/prayers of the saints on earth to God, but never do the praying themselves. They act as messengers and not intercessors. There are only three people that intercede for the saints living on earth-
1. The saints living on earth do pray for their fellow saints on earth.
2. The Holy Spirit who helps the saints on earth to pray to God.
3. The Lord, Jesus Christ.

Jesus dn't intercede, he gives u wat u want
Bros if we continue, u ll nt accept my own reason/s nd I ll nt accept all bt we must learn nd am ready 2 learn if u can convince me

Barnabaseloka:

Yes, the elders offered the prayers of the saints to God in the form of incense. . When the saints on earth pray, the elders present the prayers to God, but never do the praying themselves.

No 1: there are many forms of prayer. Offering incense or offerings or fasting or sacrifice or another person's prayer or anything else to God...is prayer in itself.

No 2: you agree that elders carry our prayers to God. You must also agree that those in heaven pray to God to avenge their death on those who killed them. So you believe people in heaven can carry our prayers to God and can pray for you to be punished if you deserve it...

But they cannot pray for you to be blessed if you deserve it?

For the first time in your life, THINK!

italo:


No 1: there are many forms of prayer. Offering incense or offerings or fasting or sacrifice or another person's prayer or anything else to God...is prayer in itself.

No 2: you agree that elders carry our prayers to God. You must also agree that those in heaven pray to God to avenge their death on those who killed them. So you believe people in heaven can carry our prayers to God and can pray for you to be punished if you deserve it...

But they cannot pray for you to be blessed if you deserve it?

For the first time in your life, THINK!

I know I have to think but who are those in heaven that can offer prayers to God for the saints?