Ubenedictus:


heb 12: 22-24, it says you have come to mount zion, dear barnabaseloka have you come to mount Zion?

Lol. Yes, I have come to Mount Zion and not Mount Sinai.

Barnabaseloka:

Stop making a fuss over the issue of Mary being the mother of Jesus. If Mary still plays her motherly role today, then Joseph, unarguably, plays his fatherly role also. Where is the position of God, then? Anyway this is not to be discussed here.

Ecc.9:5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing. And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.
6. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished: Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun.
10. Whatever your hands finds to do, do it with your might;, for there is no WORK, or DEVICE or KNOWLEDGE or WISDOM in the grave (world of the dead) where you are going.

Remeber that the martyred saints were 'asleep' until the fifth seal was broken making them cry out for vengence. After this, they went back to their state of rest, waiting for the day of resurrection.
How does this passge affirm that a saint who has gone into eternity prays for the saints who are still on earth?

The Scripture is not only about the words in it , but also about the right interpretation of the words. Come out from your doctrinal bigotry and accept the truth.

Note
U don contest for position in heaven because rewards individual according to the role u played while on earth
Bros 1 tin is dt is hard 2 change ur mentality.

btoks:


The
How do we know the correct interpretation?(And please not the knowing the true spirit argument you guys always come up with - because it's a non sequitur)Who do we go to if there's a dispute on scripture interpretation?

Correct interpretation of the scripture is got when a balance is struck among different passages that talk about a particular issue. All this is done by the help of the Holy Spirit.

Take a look at these:
1. How consistent are you in studying the scriptures, even after going to church?
2. Your personal study gives you a strong foundation and also gives you knowledge (insight) and understanding, making you to rapidly grow spiritually.
3. Personal study helps you to compare scriptures with scriptures in order to strike a balance among them.
4. When you get confused while studying, go to a christian who you know has attained some level of maturity spiritually. One who can rightly divide or teach the word of God, balancing scriptures.
5. Or, join a christian bible study group. A group that will enlighten you on the word of God, not one that causes more confusion or contradicts God's word.
6. Your sincerity to know the truth and live by it show how God will lead you to the truth.

In conclusion, your personal foundation, got during your personal study of the scriptures under the Holy Spirit, is a key tool to avoid being deceived by any spiritual 'teacher' or 'preacher'.

Jusmudi:

Bros sorry for using this language read Rev 3:15-16 I knw ur deeds, dt u ar neither cold nr hot. I wish u were either! So because u are lukewarm- neither hot nr cold- I am abt 2 spit u out of my mouth

And what is this supposed to mean?

Jusmudi:

Note
U don contest for position in heaven because rewards individual according to the role u played while on earth
Bros 1 tin is dt is hard 2 change ur mentality.

I am not fixed or stuck to my opinions. I go with the truth whenever and wherever it is spoken. What pisses me off is when someone lays claims to traditions and ideologies of men that contradict that which is written in the scriptures.

You are right. No one contests for position in heaven, yet every christian srives to enter heaven. The unbiased knowledge and truth of the scriptures help christians to run this race effectively.

When one chooses to go with traditions and doctrines of men that clearly contradict God's word, rather than the truth from the scriptures, they serve as stumbling blocks to the person.
For me, I choose to live by the word of God instead of joining multitudes in obeying teachings that contradict God's word!

Barnabaseloka:

And what is this supposed to mean?

U said u dn't hv a particular church
Lik I said b4 sorry 4 d statement

Barnabaseloka:

I am not fixed or stuck to my opinions. I go with the truth whenever and wherever it is spoken. What pisses me off is when someone lays claims to traditions and ideologies of men that contradict that which is written in the scriptures.

You are right. No one contests for position in heaven, yet every christian srives to enter heaven. The unbiased knowledge and truth of the scriptures help christians to run this race effectively.

When one chooses to go with traditions and doctrines of men that clearly contradict God's word, rather than the truth from the scriptures, they serve as stumbling blocks to the person.
For me, I choose to live by the word of God instead of joining multitudes in obeying teachings that contradict God's word!

Do U remember dis World " come let us reason together" my broda community of Blivers gives u hope of serving God, praying 4 u, nd joining hands in prayers because agreement prayer is very good

Barnabaseloka:

Stop making a fuss over the issue of Mary being the mother of Jesus. If Mary still plays her motherly role today, then Joseph, unarguably, plays his fatherly role also. Where is the position of God, then? Anyway this is not to be discussed here.

Ecc.9:5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing. And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.
6. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished: Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun.
10. Whatever your hands finds to do, do it with your might;, for there is no WORK, or DEVICE or KNOWLEDGE or WISDOM in the grave (world of the dead) where you are going.

Remeber that the martyred saints were 'asleep' until the fifth seal was broken making them cry out for vengence. After this, they went back to their state of rest, waiting for the day of resurrection.
How does this passge affirm that a saint who has gone into eternity prays for the saints who are still on earth?

The Scripture is not only about the words in it , but also about the right interpretation of the words. Come out from your doctrinal bigotry and accept the truth.

And these 'dead' and 'asleep' saints do pray and rejoice about earthly happenings. No?

Barnabaseloka:

I am not fixed or stuck to my opinions. I go with the truth whenever and wherever it is spoken. What pisses me off is when someone lays claims to traditions and ideologies of men that contradict that which is written in the scriptures.

You are right. No one contests for position in heaven, yet every christian srives to enter heaven. The unbiased knowledge and truth of the scriptures help christians to run this race effectively.

When one chooses to go with traditions and doctrines of men that clearly contradict God's word, rather than the truth from the scriptures, they serve as stumbling blocks to the person.
For me, I choose to live by the word of God instead of joining multitudes in obeying teachings that contradict God's word!

You aren't living by God's word.

God's word never said Saints can't pray for people on earth. That is your man made tradition.

Barnabaseloka:

Correct interpretation of the scripture is got when a balance is struck among different passages that talk about a particular issue. All this is done by the help of the Holy Spirit.

Take a look at these:
1. How consistent are you in studying the scriptures, even after going to church?
2. Your personal study gives you a strong foundation and also gives you knowledge (insight) and understanding, making you to rapidly grow spiritually.
3. Personal study helps you to compare scriptures with scriptures in order to strike a balance among them.
4. When you get confused while studying, go to a christian who you know has attained some level of maturity spiritually. One who can rightly divide or teach the word of God, balancing scriptures.
5. Or, join a christian bible study group. A group that will enlighten you on the word of God, not one that causes more confusion or contradicts God's word.
6. Your sincerity to know the truth and live by it show how God will lead you to the truth.

In conclusion, your personal foundation, got during your personal study of the scriptures under the Holy Spirit, is a key tool to avoid being deceived by any spiritual 'teacher' or 'preacher'.

Is the above the way the early Christians determined the truth in Acts 15...

...or did they go to the Church leaders?

Cc Timmytimmy...pls watch this space.

Timmytimmy:


I've followed the posts here from the beginning. It's ironic that a discussion that should help us arrive at the truth hence helping us live more rightly before God has elicited a lot of very insulting comments from you, simply because they don't see things the way you do.

I tell anyone who cares to listen. I believe the controversies in Christianity are there to help us test whether the love of Christ abides in us because it is when you don't see eye to eye with a person on issues like these that your love is really put to the test. Yes, we can have intelligent discourse but it should be done with kindness and humility. It is because of people like you that a lot of well meaning people no longer want to have conversations like this.

Please change your attitude. It's very repulsive. The only reason that this discussion hasn't degenerated into an e-war thread is that the people you've been stylishly hurling insults are haven't replied with insults.

That's all I want to say, sir. I look forward to a positive reaction to this post.

1. I never insulted anyone. Telling someone who isnt thinking well to pray to God to improve his reasoning is never an insult.

2. You chose not to see the harsh words used against me. E.g barnabaseloka called me "bigot" first. ..but you skipped that and quoted me calling him a bigot in return. That shows how impartial and honest you are.

3. A Christian should sometimes tell people exactly what they are and what the situation is just like Jesus did in Matt 23 and John did in Matt 15:33 to hypocrites who aren't interested in an intelligent discussion, but only want to condemn even if it means levelling false allegations.

Were Jesus and John unkind and arrogant?

4. If you're interested in truth, tell us your inference from the thread so far.

Do you believe like barnabaseloka...that saints can pray for God to punish people on earth...but they cannot pray for God to bless people on earth?

@jusmudi can u email me on talomeyadua@yahoo.com. cant access my nairaland email.

italo:


Is the above the way the early Christians determined the truth in Acts 15...

...or did they go to the Church leaders?

Cc Timmytimmy...pls watch this space.

There are many ways to get the truth. It must not always be from church leaders. Any true christian can teach another christian who is confused the truth from the scriptures. This was why Paul told Timothy (and every christian) to study to show himself approved so that he can rightly divide (teach) the word of truth (2 Tim.2 :15). Aquila and Priscilla taught Apollos the truth about Jesus in Acts 18:24-26.

However, if there is any church doctrine or teaching which one in that church is confused about, then such a person should meet the church leaders. This was what the early apostled did in Jerusalem.

Note: The church leaders must not contradict the scriptures, rather they are to find a balance among the scriptures.

italo:


You aren't living by God's word.

God's word never said Saints can't pray for people on earth. That is your man made tradition.

Lol. The saints living on earth can intercede for fellow saints living on earth. Paul requested prayers from the saints in different churches he wrote letters to. I also wrote on the three people who intercede for saints who live on earth.

I have proven from the scriptures that saints who have gone into eternity do not know about the happenings on the earth. But, you could not explain your belief about this explicitly from the scriptures. You tend to hold on to what you have been taught when the word of God says another thing.

italo:
@jusmudi can u email me on talomeyadua@yahoo.com. cant access my nairaland email.

my broda u are 2ruli a born catholic. I ll email 2day wit mudijp@gmail.com

Jusmudi:

U said u dn't hv a particular church
Lik I said b4 sorry 4 d statement

I have a church where I worship. Yet, I act like the Bereans. I personally study the scriptures to know if what I am taught there is in line with what the scriptures say. If not in line, I obey God's word. Jesus said 'Take heed lest any man (preacher, teacher, pastor, pope, brother or sister) deceive you!

Jusmudi:

Do U remember dis World " come let us reason together" my broda community of Blivers gives u hope of serving God, praying 4 u, nd joining hands in prayers because agreement prayer is very good

Agreed. But will not concur if community of believers also include the saints who have gone into eternity.

italo:


And these 'dead' and 'asleep' saints do pray and rejoice about earthly happenings. No?

I have given you some passages as your guideline. Read them b/c they answered your question. This is how people like you need to be replied.

italo:


1. I never insulted anyone. Telling someone who isnt thinking well to pray to God to improve his reasoning is never an insult.

2. You chose not to see the harsh words used against me. E.g barnabaseloka called me "bigot" first. ..but you skipped that and quoted me calling him a bigot in return. That shows how impartial and honest you are.

3. A Christian should sometimes tell people exactly what they are and what the situation is just like Jesus did in Matt 23 and John did in Matt 15:33 to hypocrites who aren't interested in an intelligent discussion, but only want to condemn even if it means levelling false allegations.

Were Jesus and John unkind and arrogant?

4. If you're interested in truth, tell us your inference from the thread so far.

Do you believe like barnabaseloka...that saints can pray for God to punish people on earth...but they cannot pray for God to bless people on earth?

I did not call you a fool, neither did I write that you were stupid. Maybe you view the word 'bigot' as a harsh word on you.
The word 'bigot' is defined by the Oxford Dictionary as: A person who has very strong, unreasonable beliefs or opinions about race, religion or politics, and who will not listen to or accept the opinions of anyone who disagrees.
Nevertheless I apologise if I have hurt you by using the word.

Barnabaseloka:

I have a church where I worship. Yet, I act like the Bereans. I personally study the scriptures to know if what I am taught there is in line with what the scriptures say. If not in line, I obey God's word. Jesus said 'Take heed lest any man (preacher, teacher, pastor, pope, brother or sister) deceive you!

My broda if u can't defend ur church den u are nt ready nd also I cam 2 love my church because all of her teachings are correct. Reading d bible is ok bt ur interpretation matas a lot, is very good good 2 read bible bt ur understandin is anoda tin

Barnabaseloka:

I did not call you a fool, neither did I write that you were stupid. Maybe you view the word 'bigot' as a harsh word on you.
The word 'bigot' is defined by the Oxford Dictionary as: A person who has very strong, unreasonable beliefs or opinions about race, religion or politics, and who will not listen to or accept the opinions of anyone who disagrees.
Nevertheless I apologise if I have hurt you by using the word.

Dere is a difference b\w a man nd a kid. U just showed me ur xter of a true man. Tank u 4 d apology. And also broda is difficult 2 convince u because u hv already made up ur mind

Barnabaseloka:

Lol. Yes, I have come to Mount Zion and not Mount Sinai.

i see you didn't do your usual exegesis on the passages, so permit me to ask you,

are you there present with the one God? With his Son Jesus who brings a new covenant whose blood pleads better than abel? With the company of all erolled in the kingdom and with the spirit of the just now made perfect?

Are you in that gathering where the whole host of heaven and the people of God here on earth fellowship?

This question is pretty important because record of Christians who lived immediately or some time after the apostles record this fact, they hold, as the book of heb teaches and as I believe that the worship of God and the prayer of the church, the ekklesia is never done alone or in isolation, they believe that right before them was the heavenly host, the body of Christ in true unity. They by faith could "see" that like heb teaches before them is a great cloud of witnesses who join them or with them prayed to God and offered worship.

Barnabaseloka:

Correct interpretation of the scripture is got when a balance is struck among different passages that talk about a particular issue. All this is done by the help of the Holy Spirit.

Take a look at these:
1. How consistent are you in studying the scriptures, even after going to church?
2. Your personal study gives you a strong foundation and also gives you knowledge (insight) and understanding, making you to rapidly grow spiritually.
3. Personal study helps you to compare scriptures with scriptures in order to strike a balance among them.
4. When you get confused while studying, go to a christian who you know has attained some level of maturity spiritually. One who can rightly divide or teach the word of God, balancing scriptures.
5. Or, join a christian bible study group. A group that will enlighten you on the word of God, not one that causes more confusion or contradicts God's word.
6. Your sincerity to know the truth and live by it show how God will lead you to the truth.

In conclusion, your personal foundation, got during your personal study of the scriptures under the Holy Spirit, is a key tool to avoid being deceived by any spiritual 'teacher' or 'preacher'.

With all due respect, we end up at the same point going by your response.this is what has led to countless contradictory doctrines in protestant/pentecostal denominations.
With your logic,you end believing the tradition of the bible group/matured christian you meet with or whatever you feel personally.
There are differences on the big issues e.g. Trinity, holy eucharist(Jesus really present or not), baptism, communion of saints,books of the OT, nature of Jesus, justification, contraception, apostolic succession etc.
This is why a guide is needed, that's how it's always been.
within the scriptures you read that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth in 1Tim3.
Whilst I study scriptures, it has to be understood within christian history. The church with it's authority to bind and loose(plus Jesus promising the gates of hell not to prevail against it) has already laid out the true teachings and continues to interpret based on current and future events.
It is counterintuitive to state that each person studying the scriptures under the guidance of the holy spirit will know the truth because it's exactly the opposite that has occurred with sola scriptura adherence.

Timmytimmy:


I've followed the posts here from the beginning. It's ironic that a discussion that should help us arrive at the truth hence helping us live more rightly before God has elicited a lot of very insulting comments from you, simply because they don't see things the way you do.

I tell anyone who cares to listen. I believe the controversies in Christianity are there to help us test whether the love of Christ abides in us because it is when you don't see eye to eye with a person on issues like these that your love is really put to the test. Yes, we can have intelligent discourse but it should be done with kindness and humility. It is because of people like you that a lot of well meaning people no longer want to have conversations like this.

Please change your attitude. It's very repulsive. The only reason that this discussion hasn't degenerated into an e-war thread is that the people you've been stylishly hurling insults are haven't replied with insults.

That's all I want to say, sir. I look forward to a positive reaction to this post.

my dear it is important to be fair when making judgement.

I do not know how long you have been on nl religion section but it usually involves passionate discussion with may deginerate into uncharitable words, infact after replying to a few stuff here the next thread I'm visiting is one where I've been called a bigot severally for holding a different opinion. This is common in the section.

But to pick up italo's "bigot" comment and use it as a stick to beat him while failing to mention that he was responding to a post where he was called a bigot is simply unfair and seems like witch hunting.

He isn't the first person to use the word on the thread and if you are going to condemn the use of the word the kindly do so across the board instead of looking for a scape goat.

luckyCO:

This is exactly what you where told dear,please check the history yourself and you will see what happened. Read both catholic and protestant side of the story you discover how devil entered the church and when it entered.

I used to make these claims as ;
Catholic is first church funded by Christ
Pope is president of a country and of the biggest church in the world etc.
But when I checked I discovered God in His simplicity and I throw them away because they dont have salvation virtue. I should be ashamed that a church having Over 1.2billion members couldn't change the world spiritually positive.
That means God doesn't work with crowd.

If you are satisfied with the way catholic church and other churches are today, then I will advice you to review what makes you comfortable.
Meanwhile Christ will not judge us by roman catholic, anglican, methodist nor pentecostal doctrine/dogma/creed, He will judge us as it is written.


We have inner witness (the Spirit of truth) so if you say what is true and I have Spirit of truth I should be able to identify it and follow it, that is why we dont framework ourselves when it has to do with salvation.

God bless you.

@bolded may be verging on being heretical because Jesus said the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church.
I don't know what particular history you're referring to but there's always been issues in the church, even back to biblical times,that's what happens when you have human beings running things . Prior to the so called protestant reformation, there were issues of excesses within certain parishes. It's the excesses and sins that should have been reformed not breaking away from the church with novel doctrines.
it's a shame you don't see any good with the CC,I pray someday you see this.
by the way what church do you now attend?

I won't play the spirit of truth tennis with you, I think you'll soon review this once you see the level of confusing doctrines around.
God bless you too.

Barnabaseloka:

Ecc.9:5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing. And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.
6. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished: Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun.
10. Whatever your hands finds to do, do it with your might;, for there is no WORK, or DEVICE or KNOWLEDGE or WISDOM in the grave (world of the dead) where you are going.

Remeber that the martyred saints were 'asleep' until the fifth seal was broken making them cry out for vengence. After this, they went back to their state of rest, waiting for the day of resurrection.
How does this passge affirm that a saint who has gone into eternity prays for the saints who are still on earth?

The Scripture is not only about the words in it , but also about the right interpretation of the words. Come out from your doctrinal bigotry and accept the truth.

I think you are the one who needs to correct your interpretation of scriptures dear.

That passage is from the old testament and it isn't talking about the saint in heaven, it is talking about Shoel where there is no wisdom of things "under the sun".

The old testament righteous are nolonger in Shoel as they have been translated into paradise, it is scripturally irresponsible to take a text talking about souls in shoel and apply them to those in Christ.

Kindly recheck your interpretation again that passage is on Shoel! They were the ones without Knowledge, the new testament on the otherhand discusses those in heaven as having a gathering that include us on earth.

Have a nice day.

Ubenedictus:


my dear it is important to be fair when making judgement.

I do not know how long you have been on nl religion section but it usually involves passionate discussion with may deginerate into uncharitable words, infact after replying to a few stuff here the next thread I'm visiting is one where I've been called a bigot severally for holding a different opinion. This is common in the section.

But to pick up italo's "bigot" comment and use it as a stick to beat him while failing to mention that he was responding to a post where he was called a bigot is simply unfair and seems like witch hunting.

He isn't the first person to use the word on the thread and if you are going to condemn the use of the word the kindly do so across the board instead of looking for a scape goat.

Haaaaaaa! You people!
What part of my comment did I complain about the use of the word "bigot" by italo? I challenged him because I realised he was generating this negative vibe that was manifested in little insults like"you are not thinking well" or something of the sort. And of course I don't agree with the guy that called him a bigot. I quoted him so he'll stop ending his somewhat meaningful comments with stuff like"Pray that God improves your reason and give you the grace to use it well" It's condescending and insulting.

And, does the fact that things are like this on religious section not raise a question in your heart: Are this people here in search of truth or do they just want to prove their points. If we're here to prove points, then who are we fooling?

Ubenedictus:


I think you are the one who needs to correct your interpretation of scriptures dear.

That passage is from the old testament and it isn't talking about the saint in heaven, it is talking about Shoel where there is no wisdom of things "under the sun".

The old testament righteous are nolonger in Shoel as they have been translated into paradise, it is scripturally irresponsible to take a text talking about souls in shoel and apply them to those in Christ.

Kindly recheck your interpretation again that passage is on Shoel! They were the ones without Knowledge, the new testament on the otherhand discusses those in heaven as having a gathering that include us on earth.

Have a nice day.

I know you are trying hard to connect this to them praying for those on earth. This is why the verses I quoted became old testatment to you. Prove to me that the saints in eternity have knowledge of what happens on the earth.

If you claim that the saints in eternity are alive, then, there is no need for them to be raised to life unto immortality or incorruptibility. This claim will also go against God's word that God's people both those who have gone into eternity and those who are still alive will be changed from mortality to immortality when Christ comes. 1 Corinth.15:50-55.

All I can say is that the saints in eternity are 'resting' or 'sleeping' waiting for the day when God will raise them into immortality and incorruptibility.

btoks:

With all due respect, we end up at the same point going by your response.this is what has led to countless contradictory doctrines in protestant/pentecostal denominations.
With your logic,you end believing the tradition of the bible group/matured christian you meet with or whatever you feel personally.
There are differences on the big issues e.g. Trinity, holy eucharist(Jesus really present or not), baptism, communion of saints,books of the OT, nature of Jesus, justification, contraception, apostolic succession etc.
This is why a guide is needed, that's how it's always been.
within the scriptures you read that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth in 1Tim3.
Whilst I study scriptures, it has to be understood within christian history. The church with it's authority to bind and loose(plus Jesus promising the gates of hell not to prevail against it) has already laid out the true teachings and continues to interpret based on current and future events.
It is counterintuitive to state that each person studying the scriptures under the guidance of the holy spirit will know the truth because it's exactly the opposite that has occurred with sola scriptura adherence.

Bro. I know the angle you have come from. I always make it clear that whatever one teaches you as regards christian beliefs and faith should be scriptural, whether from any church or from bible study groups. This is why I wrote that personal study of the scriptures is a key tool in a christian's life.

The church in 1 Tim. Is not talking about any particular church and does not mean building as well. Any group of christians who gathers together to worship God in truth and in spirit constitutes a CHURCH, no matter where they are. As one goes to church, one learns the truth, when others speak or teach from the scriptures and iron sharpens iron.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth and teaches us, using other christians, the truth in the scriptures when we come together as a body/church. This is why it was written: forsake not the assembly of brethren. Your guides are the Holy Spirit and the word of God. The church/body of Christ and any true christian who has some level of spiritual maturity help you to understand, the truth in the scriptures, when one is confused.

The truth you have got in the church or body of Christ and from your personal study will help you teach others the truth in the scriptures.

Ubenedictus:


i see you didn't do your usual exegesis on the passages, so permit me to ask you,

are you there present with the one God? With his Son Jesus who brings a new covenant whose blood pleads better than abel? With the company of all erolled in the kingdom and with the spirit of the just now made perfect?

Are you in that gathering where the whole host of heaven and the people of God here on earth fellowship?

This question is pretty important because record of Christians who lived immediately or some time after the apostles record this fact, they hold, as the book of heb teaches and as I believe that the worship of God and the prayer of the church, the ekklesia is never done alone or in isolation, they believe that right before them was the heavenly host, the body of Christ in true unity. They by faith could "see" that like heb teaches before them is a great cloud of witnesses who join them or with them prayed to God and offered worship.

Yes, I join them to worship God, b/c I am still alive. Yet, the saints who have gone into eternity will be changed into incorruptibility and immortality. If you mean that they are alive , then, they have been changed into immortality and are incorruptible now, right?

The cloud of witnesses talked about in Heb.12 were those mentioned in Heb.11 with other heroes of faith who were not written about. They neither joined or offered worship to God now. Heb,12:1 encouraged us who are alive to run the race with patience as other heroes of faith/cloud of witnesses did, and remove any sin that easily ensnares us. It did not talk of the saints that are in eternity praying to God or worshipping Him.

Jusmudi:

Dere is a difference b\w a man nd a kid. U just showed me ur xter of a true man. Tank u 4 d apology. And also broda is difficult 2 convince u because u hv already made up ur mind

Bro. U can convince me using a balance of the scriptures. I learn the truth from other christians and from my personal study of the scriptures. I am open to correction and the truth.

You do not swallow everything any church or person tells you as regards your christian faith hook, line and sinker. Check them out through the scriptures to verify their authenticty and truthfulness as the Bereans did. The Holy Spirit and the word of God (not traditions imputed by men), are there to help you know the truth.

Barnabaseloka:

Bro. I know the angle you have come from. I always make it clear that whatever one teaches you as regards christian beliefs and faith should be scriptural, whether from any church or from bible study groups. This is why I wrote that personal study of the scriptures is a key tool in a christian's life.

The church in 1 Tim. Is not talking about any particular church and does not mean building as well. Any group of christians who gathers together to worship God in truth and in spirit constitutes a CHURCH, no matter where they are. As one goes to church, one learns the truth, when others speak or teach from the scriptures and iron sharpens iron.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth and teaches us, using other christians, the truth in the scriptures when we come together as a body/church. This is why it was written: forsake not the assembly of brethren. Your guides are the Holy Spirit and the word of God. The church/body of Christ and any true christian who has some level of spiritual maturity help you to understand, the truth in the scriptures, when one is confused.

The truth you have got in the church or body of Christ and from your personal study will help you teach others the truth in the scriptures.

At the point the scriptures were written, although there were several gatherings in the name of Christ,they constituted one church led by the apostles. Peter and Paul wrote to a number of them.
The true church was clear in the early days.This is why teachings were checked with this church e.g. Acts 15,Gal 2. Are we saying the structure left by Jesus is no more? Did he really set up Christianity with differing teachings all over?
Over the years with different groups breaking off the church, it could be easy to interpret that every church has the full truth.
The[b] issue arises when I ask these several groups what the correct teaching is on communion of saints/intercessory prayers as per OP.how do I know the true teaching?[/b]