Candyrain:


Fiscal federalism can't kill corruption. Fiscal federalism just as you stated in one of your post is like having a country within a country. As the case may be corruption can still eat up this *country* within the country if right institutions and policies that will checkmate it are not put in place.

Let's take Rivers state as an example. Practicing fiscal federalism would mean Rivers state get to control their resources and the governor there would act as the president. If proper policies and a terrible leader are not put in place gross mismanagement and embezzlement as we have in Nigeria would still be experienced there.

So fiscal federalism and corruption are two different things entirely and the former can't kill off or get rid of the later. Policies and laws that will be strictly adhered to are what can kill corruption.

Cc: HopeatHand

I don't see how you link fiscal federalism with the governor of a state. Corruption is a function of greed, lack of sense of service and a lack of transparency in the society. A system where locals have more skin in the game, will surely become an antidote to most of these behaviours.

Candyrain:


Fiscal federalism can't kill corruption. Fiscal federalism just as you stated in one of your post is like having a country within a country. As the case may be corruption can still eat up this *country* within the country if right institutions and policies that will checkmate it are not put in place.

Let's take Rivers state as an example. Practicing fiscal federalism would mean Rivers state get to control their resources and the governor there would act as the president. If proper policies and a terrible leader are not put in place gross mismanagement and embezzlement as we have in Nigeria would still be experienced there.

So fiscal federalism and corruption are two different things entirely and the former can't kill off or get rid of the later. Policies and laws that will be strictly adhered to are what can kill corruption.

Cc: HopeatHand

Fiscal federalism and corruption are two diffrent things but how can we really curb corruption in the component units since we know the recklessNess of our governors.

I'm now having a double mind with devolving a lot of power to the component units

ECOTERRORS:
Fiscal federalism and corruption are two diffrent things but how can we really curb corruption in the component units since we know the recklessNess of our governors.

I'm now having a double mind with devolving a lot of power to the component units

Devolution is the way forward, when states no longer relies on the federal govt for funds, they would become more prudent. No more building of 1kilometre road for xxbillions.

Mogidi:


Since we would remain in the same republic, the answer would be yes. "dual federalism" would curtail corruption, the present system where states goes for elephant and unsustainable projects would cease. Waste and corruption starts when governors starts hteir "own projects" rather than finishing the ones of their predecessors.
For example why would a small state like Ekiti spend billions operating an airport when neighbouring states are few miles away? It would greatly reduce waste, you spend what you earn, no more running to Abuja for bailouts. It would become very obvious who the incompetent governors are.

Correct.

francizy:


When the fiscal federalism is introduced, that's when we'll know the States heavily dependent on the government at the center. When those states go super broke, they won't wait to be told in order to become innovated and creative thereby creating their own revenue streams...

I'm having a rethink of devolving powers and resources to our governors with their kleptomaniac tendencies.

The latest court cases of nyako, ohakim and lamido comes to mind.

The second thing is that governors will become dictators and tin gods. Eg Aregbesola owing salaries and using thugs to intimidate the workers

Mogidi:


Devolution is the way forward, when states no longer relies on the federal govt for funds, they would become more prudent. No more building of 1kilometre road for xxbillions.

Devolution and defined responsibilities between the states and the federal government is the way forward.

Mogidi:


Devolution is the way forward, when states no longer relies on the federal govt for funds, they would become more prudent. No more building of 1kilometre road for xxbillions.

looking at it holistically, there will be a wide disparity in states, some governors will use the instrument of state police to subdue the opposition and not forgetting that the north will be backward and will be a bigger threat to others because their leader might use religeon to decive the gullible masses.

I think we need to devise a system that works for Us but resource control should be the paramount thing in any new system. Let Nigeria jhave their own federalism that is suited for Nigeria and tailored to our lifestyle

atlwireles:


Devolution and defined responsibilities between the states and the federal government is the way forward.

That should be it, it would become obvious which governor is performing.

atlwireles:


Ask Gowon why he allowed derivation, ask Murtala why he cut it and Obj, why he abolished it, then introduced the land use decree. Please spare me your crap.

You are ignoring the point of his post. He who is faithful in little will be faithful in much. Our leaders mismanage and embezzle 13%. If you give them 100% it will still go the same way.

ECOTERRORS:
Fiscal federalism and corruption are two diffrent things but how can we really curb corruption in the component units since we know the recklessNess of our governors.

I'm now having a double mind with devolving a lot of power to the component units

Take this illustration.

Wike is governor of Rivers and he appoints IG of Rivers Police, He appoints Chairman of Rivers Economic and Financial crimes commission, He appoints Rivers Chief judge/justice, he appoints all appointable (pardon the grammar).

So if hes corrupt, who then asks him questions when he is lord over all and sundry..all fiscal federalism does at this point is to ensure more money for thieving governors...if we cant hold them accountable for little, how can we hold them for plenty..the same system used to embezzle the little will be expanded for many...the presidency becomes irrelevant to them as what they want in Abj is with them in Phc.

So we shud get our institutions working perfectly and then we are ready for true federalism.

Mogidi:


Devolution is the way forward, when states no longer relies on the federal govt for funds, they would become more prudent. No more building of 1kilometre road for xxbillions.

Wait a minute.

Why should a state control their resources in fiscal federalism, why not the local govt chairman control what comes from his locality.

why should Opobo pumping 200,000bpd of crude oil share the resource with Khana that has locked down its oil wells since 1994?

afterall he is elected by his people and the resources from his locality should be used to develop his locality.

atlwireles:


Devolution and defined responsibilities between the states and the federal government is the way forward.

The Chinese and Russia practise Communism but the Chinese after their Cultural revolution reformed their own system of communism to tailor to their culture and people.
My question is, since we borrowed our federal system from the USA and we are not even practising true federalism, How can we create our own federalism to suit our people whereby every component unit is not left behind and excessive power does not reside with our governors

honeychild:


You are ignoring the point of his post. He who is faithful in little will be faithful in much. Our leaders mismanage and embezzle 13%. If you give them 100% it will still go the same way.

Mismanaged 13%?, what do you say to the mismanagement and embezzlement of the remaining 87%. I hate the straw man argument, there is no doubt that the Niger delta has been helped a great deal by the 13%. Only dishonest people pretend otherwise

pazienza:


Why should you be bothered about Niger delta oil wealth and whether it be controlled by their states or individuals. Isn't this parasitism that you are displaying here. Can't you just face your own region and use whatever you have to develop it? Must you partake of ND crude oil wealth.

I am Nigerian and my region is the whole country. Do you know how oil got deposited in the Niger delta region? Do you know how oil is even created? What makes you claim that the crude oil solely belongs to Niger Deltans? Don't you think you are also a parasite just trying to rip where you did not sow after all you did absolutely nothing to put oil in the ground.

The problem dull people like you have is that you fail to understand what your own problem is. Your problem is the level of poverty in the Niger delta and Nigeria as a whole. The discussion on this thread is based on how do we solve that problem and not necessarily true federalism per se. I hope I have clarified things a bit for you.

ECOTERRORS:
looking at it holistically, there will be a wide disparity in states, [size=15pt]some governors will use the instrument of state police to subdue the opposition[/size] and not forgetting that the north will be backward and will be a bigger threat to others because their leader might use religeon to decive the gullible masses.

I think we need to devise a system that works for Us but resource control should be the paramount thing in any new system. Let Nigeria jhave their own federalism that is suited for Nigeria and tailored to our lifestyle

I do agree with you but we would have to try out devolution to examine those points you raised. Years ago the military made Nigerians believe democracy was not good for us till 1999 when we went full throttle. There would always be governors who would want to use instruments of state to their advantage, but we need to try devolution to ascertain its deficiencies. Democracy or devolution can only grow when we put it to the test. I bet many Americans also raised the point of "Tin gods" after there civil war.
Northern oligarchs are the ones scared of "dual federalism"

ECOTERRORS:
The Chinese and Russia practise Communism but the Chinese after their Cultural revolution reformed their own system of communism to tailor to their culture and people.
My question is, since we borrowed our federal system from the USA and we are not even practising true federalism, How can we create our own federalism to suit our people whereby every component unit is not left behind and excessive power does not reside with our governors

Before Nigeria was created, people had tribal Nations. we have a foundation to build our local control federalism. The problem with Nigeria, is most people associate fiscal federalism with crude oil. I don't understand that mindset.

HopeAtHand:


Take this illustration.

Wike is governor of Rivers and he appoints IG of Rivers Police, He appoints Chairman of Rivers Economic and Financial crimes commission, He appoints Rivers Chief judge/justice, he appoints all appointable (pardon the grammar).

So if hes corrupt, who then asks him questions when he is lord over all and sundry..all fiscal federalism does at this point is to ensure more money for thieving governors...if we cant hold them accountable for little, how can we hold them for plenty..the same system used to embezzle the little will be expanded for many...the presidency becomes irrelevant to them as what they want in Abj is with them in Phc.

So we shud get our institutions working perfectly and then we are ready for true federalism.

We need to create a federal system that will suit our country, this our present system is not working

trillville:


[size=13pt]I am Nigerian and my region is the whole country.[/size] Do you know how oil got deposited in the Niger delta region? Do you know how oil is even created? What makes you claim that the crude oil solely belongs to Niger Deltans? Don't you think you are also a parasite just trying to rip where you did not sow after all you did absolutely nothing to put oil in the ground.

The problem dull people like you have is that you fail to understand what your own problem is. Your problem is the level of poverty in the Niger delta and Nigeria as a whole. The discussion on this thread is based on how do we solve that problem and not necessarily true federalism per se. I hope I have clarified things a bit for you.

At the emboldened, same way Lagos is a no man's land right?

atlwireles:


Mismanaged 13%?, what do you say to the mismanagement and embezzlement of the remaining 87%. I hate the straw man argument, there is no doubt that the Niger delta has been helped a great deal by the 13%. Only dishonest people pretend otherwise

How exactly has it helped? You complain on this board incessantly about how Amaechi spent billions on his 1 km monorail and how he should be probed by EFCC. Same with the past governors of Bayelsa and other ND states. So if Rivers State had 50% derivation, Amaechi's monorail would have cost trillions and not just billions.

Giving kleptomaniac leaders more money is not the solution!

HopeAtHand:


Wait a minute.

Why should a state control their resources in fiscal federalism, why not the local govt chairman control what comes from his locality.

why should Opobo pumping 200,000bpd of crude oil share the resource with Khana that has locked down its oil wells since 1994?

afterall he is elected by his people and the resources from his locality should be used to develop his locality.

Lets not go there mate.
If Opobo is pumping 200,000bpd of crude oil, should the village where the oil is located enjoy it alone or should the whole Opobo reap the benefits?

honeychild:


How exactly has it helped? You complain on this board incessantly about how Amaechi spent billions on his 1 km monorail and how he should be probed by EFCC. Same with the past governors of Bayelsa and other ND states. So if Rivers State had 50% derivation, Amaechi's monorail would have cost trillions and not just billions.

Giving kleptomaniac leaders more money is not the solution!

Nigeria has 36 states, stop finding faults only in the states of the Niger delta. Like I said, keep the straw man argument.

atlwireles:


I don't see how you link fiscal federalism with the governor of a state. Corruption is a function of greed, lack of sense of service and a lack of transparency in the society. A system where locals have more skin in the game, will surely become an antidote to most of these behaviours.

With what we have now, unitary system of govt, the president has the power and he controls everything which includes the resources. With fiscal federalism, the state controls it's resources and pay a certain percentage to the centre. The governor is the head of the state so that means the governor controls the resources. Without policies in place, the governor can get greed and then what we have presently in Nigeria (embezzlement and mismanagement) will be experienced.

If we can adopt the US method where individuals can own the oil well so far it's on your land and then they pay tax to the state, this can help eliminate corruption and mismanagement to an extent.

Mogidi:


Lets not go there mate.
If Opobo is pumping 200,000bpd of crude oil, should the village where the oil is located enjoy it alone or should the whole Opobo reap the benefits?

honeychild:


How exactly has it helped? You complain on this board incessantly about how Amaechi spent billions on his 1 km monorail and how he should be probed by EFCC. Same with the past governors of Bayelsa and other ND states. So if Rivers State had 50% derivation, Amaechi's monorail would have cost trillions and not just billions.

Giving kleptomaniac leaders more money is not the solution!

Saudi kings and Kuwaiti monarchs are some of the most corrupt people on earth. Do you know why it seems negligible, (you guessed it), there's a lot to go round.
Go to Mecca and Kuwait, you won't know how corrupt their rulers are.

atlwireles:


Before Nigeria was created, people had tribal Nations. we have a foundation to build our local control federalism. The problem with Nigeria, is most people associate fiscal federalism with crude oil. I don't understand that mindset.

the best solution is for us to have resource control but there will still be a strong Centre and less power to the component unit

Mogidi:


At the emboldened, same way Lagos is a no man's land right?

Yes. The very same way.

Fashola was wrong deporting igbo's from Lagos. It must also be noted that the majority of people in Lagos are Yorubas and they have their own specific culture. To live in peace in any society, you must act accordingly with the prevailing culture. Igbos tend to fail in this aspect.

Mogidi:


I do agree with you but we would have to try out devolution to examine those points you raised. Years ago the military made Nigerians believe democracy was not good for us till 1999 when we went full throttle. There would always be governors who would want to use instruments of state to their advantage, but we need to try devolution to ascertain its deficiencies. Democracy or devolution can only grow when we put it to the test. I bet many Americans also raised the point of "Tin gods" after there civil war.
Northern oligarchs are the ones scared of "dual federalism"

FIXED

ECOTERRORS:
Fiscal federalism and corruption are two diffrent things but how can we really curb corruption in the component units since we know the recklessNess of our governors.

I'm now having a double mind with devolving a lot of power to the component units

Laws and policies can curb it. Holding the governors accountable. The immunity clause in the constitution for political officer holders as well have it presently is killing the Nigeria. I want to believe you know what the immunity clause means. If this can be removed and the governors know they can dealt with immediately while still in office for misconduct and any form of corruption then I'm certain they'll sit up.

Candyrain:


With what we have now, unitary system of govt, the president has the power and he controls everything which includes the resources. With fiscal federalism, the state controls it's resources and pay a certain percentage to the centre. The governor is the head of the state so that means the governor controls the resources. Without policies in place, the governor can get greed and then what we have presently in Nigeria (embezzlement and mismanagement) will be experienced.

If we can adopt the US method where individuals can own the oil well so far it's on your land and then they pay tax to the state, this can help eliminate corruption and mismanagement to an extent.

Resource control is not about transferring powers to the governors, but to the locality. Yes the state's governor will gain more resources, but I submit to you, accountability will be better too. Is more easier to raise hell with the powers in Asaba than the man in Abuja.

Candyrain:


With what we have now, unitary system of govt, the president has the power and he controls everything which includes the resources. [size=13pt]With fiscal federalism, the state controls it's resources and pay a certain percentage to the centre.[/size] The governor is the head of the state so that means the governor controls the resources. Without policies in place, the governor can get greed and then what we have presently in Nigeria (embezzlement and mismanagement) will be experienced.

If we can adopt the US method where individuals can own the oil well so far it's on your land and then they pay tax to the state, this can help eliminate corruption and mismanagement to an extent.

At the emboldened, who would determine the percentage paid to federal govt?

HopeAtHand:


Ojukwu declared Biafra because Gowen introduced a unitary system of govt that desrroyed Nigeria

Absolute rubbish from you..Ironsi or Gowon who introduced Unitary system of govt?.

Even though you intend to make a subjective analysis, a little truth here and there helps smoothen it up.

Igbos scuttled the regional system, igbos introduced unitary system. Period..but im not putting the whole blame on them..Northerners also played a huge part in this mess and our fellow Niger Deltans with little they get from the FG havent done much either.

We should develop agriculture and mining sectors to supplement oil and also fight corruption like a people hanging on a thread for survival..We get these right and we are ready as a people.

this thread was just moving fine until you started playing the ethnic card..Why did you start calling Igbos? Is Igbos that created the 12 states? Is it Igbos that increased it to 19? If I insult you, it will look as if I'm a bad person ...Anyway continue with your lies

trillville:


Yes. The very same way.

Fashola was wrong deporting igbo's from Lagos. It must also be noted that the majority of people in Lagos are Yorubas and they have their own specific culture. [size=15pt]To live in peace in any society, you must act accordingly with the prevailing culture. Igbos tend to fail in this aspect.[/size]

The Igbos that got deported contravened what specific rule apart from being born Igbo?