Jusmudi:

My broda if u can't defend ur church den u are nt ready nd also I cam 2 love my church because all of her teachings are correct. Reading d bible is ok bt ur interpretation matas a lot, is very good good 2 read bible bt ur understandin is anoda tin

Lol. I do not defend my or any church. I defend the word of God by the help of His Spirit. You do not need defending any church, but the truth being spoken in that church. On the otherhand, if any church goes into error, you use the word of God to correct such.

You must not get understanding of God's word only from the church/body of Christ. You get it also from other christians with higher level of spiritual maturity, and from your personal study also.

btoks:

At the point the scriptures were written, although there were several gatherings in the name of Christ,they constituted one church led by the apostles. Peter and Paul wrote to a number of them.
The true church was clear in the early days.This is why teachings were checked with this church e.g. Acts 15,Gal 2. Are we saying the structure left by Jesus is no more? Did he really set up Christianity with differing teachings all over?
Over the years with different groups breaking off the church, it could be easy to interpret that every church has the full truth.
The[b] issue arises when I ask these several groups what the correct teaching is on communion of saints/intercessory prayers as per OP.how do I know the true teaching?[/b]

Remember that the believers spread to other parts of the world. Anywhere they gathered to worship God constituted a church as it was in Jerusalem. The church or body of Christ at Jerusalem is not the only church/body of Christ. So stop viewing the word 'church' as a gathering of distinct or particular set of early believrs.

The scriptures you have and the Holy Spirit help you know the truth, not just going to a particular church. This was why I ask the question of how one has personally studied the scriptures you have with you. Or are you waiting for any particular church to tell you everything- when to do this and when not to do that, when to move and when to stop moving, etc. If you wait for any church (maybe through pastors, bishops, pope, etc.) to direct your christian life in everything you do, when the scriptures are with you, alongside the Holy Spirit,, I wonder how such christian life will look like.

Is the above the way the early Christians determined the truth in Acts 15...

...or did they go to the Church leaders?

Cc Timmytimmy...pls watch this space.

Barnabaseloka:

There are many ways to get the truth. It must not always be from church leaders. Any true christian can teach another christian who is confused the truth from the scriptures. This was why Paul told Timothy (and every christian) to study to show himself approved so that he can rightly divide (teach) the word of truth (2 Tim.2 :15). Aquila and Priscilla taught Apollos the truth about Jesus in Acts 18:24-26.

However, if there is any church doctrine or teaching which one in that church is confused about, then such a person should meet the church leaders. This was what the early apostled did in Jerusalem.

Note: The church leaders must not contradict the scriptures, rather they are to find a balance among the scriptures.

@ Timmytimmy, please look at this and tell me if this is an answer to my question above...

And also tell me if this person is interested in a sincere intelligent discussion.

Thank you.

italo:


@ Timmytimmy, please look at this and tell me if this is an answer to my question above...

And also tell me if this person is interested in a sincere intelligent discussion.

Thank you.

I did not answer you according to how you wanted it. I have written on how the truth is detremined today by christians, and did not tow the path you had in mind.

Every church that existed after the one at Jerusalem was independent, yet worked hand in hand with the church at Jerusalem and with its fellow 'sister' churches. The church at Jerusalem, as at then, acted as guide and handled critical matters that could not be resolved among christians. These problems came from the Jews, demanding the christian gentiles to be circumscised. These crucial matters needed to be settled in jerusalem when they got out of hand b/c:
1. The scriptures had not been put together into one book.
2. The leaders in Jerusalem constituted those who had followed Jesus and got first hand information from Jesus Himself.
3. That was where christianity started before spreading to other places.

Now, matters are settled in christianity by the scriptures that have been put together and the Holy Spirit. The truths concerning christian beliefs are not decided by any particular church/ body of Christ. Any church/body of Christ or any christian must use the scriptures to teach the truths about christian beliefs and faith. No church has absolute authority in that the truths must be determined by it.

Barnabaseloka:

Bro. U can convince me using a balance of the scriptures. I learn the truth from other christians and from my personal study of the scriptures. I am open to correction and the truth.

You do not swallow everything any church or person tells you as regards your christian faith hook, line and sinker. Check them out through the scriptures to verify their authenticty and truthfulness as the Bereans did. The Holy Spirit and the word of God (not traditions imputed by men), are there to help you know the truth.

I hv done dt already yet ur mind can't be changed

Barnabaseloka:

I did not answer you according to how you wanted it. I have written on how the truth is detremined today by christians, and did not tow the path you had in mind.

Every church that existed after the one at Jerusalem was independent, yet worked hand in hand with the church at Jerusalem and with its fellow 'sister' churches. The church at Jerusalem, as at then, acted as guide and handled critical matters that could not be resolved among christians. These problems came from the Jews, demanding the christian gentiles to be circumscised. These crucial matters needed to be settled in jerusalem when they got out of hand b/c:
1. The scriptures had not been put together into one book.
2. The leaders in Jerusalem constituted those who had followed Jesus and got first hand information from Jesus Himself.
3. That was where christianity started before spreading to other places.

Now, matters are settled in christianity by the scriptures that have been put together and the Holy Spirit. The truths concerning christian beliefs are not decided by any particular church/ body of Christ. Any church/body of Christ or any christian must use the scriptures to teach the truths about christian beliefs and faith. No church has absolute authority in that the truths must be determined by it.

Bros u ll nt accept nt now or ever, is lik u ar a witness

Barnabaseloka:

I did not answer you according to how you wanted it. I have written on how the truth is detremined today by christians, and did not tow the path you had in mind.

Every church that existed after the one at Jerusalem was independent, yet worked hand in hand with the church at Jerusalem and with its fellow 'sister' churches. The church at Jerusalem, as at then, acted as guide and handled critical matters that could not be resolved among christians. These problems came from the Jews, demanding the christian gentiles to be circumscised. These crucial matters needed to be settled in jerusalem when they got out of hand b/c:
1. The scriptures had not been put together into one book.
2. The leaders in Jerusalem constituted those who had followed Jesus and got first hand information from Jesus Himself.
3. That was where christianity started before spreading to other places.

Now, matters are settled in christianity by the scriptures that have been put together and the Holy Spirit. The truths concerning christian beliefs are not decided by any particular church/ body of Christ. Any church/body of Christ or any christian must use the scriptures to teach the truths about christian beliefs and faith. No church has absolute authority in that the truths must be determined by it.

the scriptures were not put together as one book for almost 400 years after the event. You'll find that nowhere does it say that matters are settled only by scriptures. Jesus left a teaching church to be helped by the Holy Spirit.there were other matters that came up that had to be addressed in a similar manner to Acts 15(please check out the church councils).matters are addressed in a similar way in our day.
to reiterate, leaving every gathering to decide for themselves what is true has led to countless contradictory doctrines. So this approach cannot be correct.

Barnabaseloka:

Lol. The saints living on earth can intercede for fellow saints living on earth. Paul requested prayers from the saints in different churches he wrote letters to. I also wrote on the three people who intercede for saints who live on earth.

I have proven from the scriptures that saints who have gone into eternity do not know about the happenings on the earth. But, you could not explain your belief about this explicitly from the scriptures. You tend to hold on to what you have been taught when the word of God says another thing.

@Jusmudi, Ubenedictus, Timmytimmy pls look at this and tell me if who is obeying scripture and who is contradicting scripture with false teachings.

"For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known" (1Cor.13: 12)

our Father Abraham said to the rich man: "Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things" (Lk.16: 25) Abraham knew what they received on earth.

And they cried with a loud voice, saying, 'How long, 0 Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?' (Rev 6:10) How did they know that the Lord hadn't avenved their blood on those on earth?

"Thus says the Lord God of your father David: Because you have not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat your father, or in the ways of Asa king of Judah, but have walked in the way of the kings of Israel… the Lord will strike your people" (2Chr.21: 12-14). How did Elijah, after his departure from earth, know what was happening? How did he send this letter to Jehoram?

“Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights. Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts” (Psalm 148:1-2). And the bible says we will be like angels.

Rachel was long dead (see Gen. 48:7) and departed from the earth during the Babylonian exile when Jeremiah wrote: “Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, [and] bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they [were] not. Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.” (Jeremiah 31:15-16). The Lord answered her prayer. Again when Herod slaughtered the innocents, Matthew tells us: “In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping [for] her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not” (Matthew 2:18).

and “Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth” (Luke 15:10) And the bible says we will be like angels (who know when a sinner repents)

“For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven” (Matt. 22:30)

Finally,

“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is” (1 John 3:2). And God sees all on earth.

Barnabaseloka:

I did not answer you according to how you wanted it. I have written on how the truth is detremined today by christians, and did not tow the path you had in mind.

Every church that existed after the one at Jerusalem was independent, yet worked hand in hand with the church at Jerusalem and with its fellow 'sister' churches. The church at Jerusalem, as at then, acted as guide and handled critical matters that could not be resolved among christians. These problems came from the Jews, demanding the christian gentiles to be circumscised. These crucial matters needed to be settled in jerusalem when they got out of hand b/c:
1. The scriptures had not been put together into one book.
2. The leaders in Jerusalem constituted those who had followed Jesus and got first hand information from Jesus Himself.
3. That was where christianity started before spreading to other places.

Now, matters are settled in christianity by the scriptures that have been put together and the Holy Spirit. The truths concerning christian beliefs are not decided by any particular church/ body of Christ. Any church/body of Christ or any christian must use the scriptures to teach the truths about christian beliefs and faith. No church has absolute authority in that the truths must be determined by it.

So the early Christians determined truth by going to the Church, according to scripture.

But according to your tradition, Christians should determine truth by going scripture.

You are contradicting the Bible again.

Another question.

What is the pillar and foundation of truth?

Judge Timmytimmy, where are you now?

Barnabaseloka:

There are many ways to get the truth. It must not always be from church leaders. Any true christian can teach another christian who is confused the truth from the scriptures. This was why Paul told Timothy (and every christian) to study to show himself approved so that he can rightly divide (teach) the word of truth (2 Tim.2 :15). Aquila and Priscilla taught Apollos the truth about Jesus in Acts 18:24-26.

However, if there is any church doctrine or teaching which one in that church is confused about, then such a person should meet the church leaders. This was what the early apostled did in Jerusalem.

Note: The church leaders must not contradict the scriptures, rather they are to find a balance among the scriptures.

Who determines whether they are contradicting scriptures or not?

You?

italo:
Who determines whether they are contradicting scriptures or not?

You?

You determine it in your private study, or when you go for other christian seminars or bible study classes. The Holy Spirit can use another christian to teach you the truth in the scriptures in these places.

italo:


So the early Christians determined truth by going to the Church, according to scripture.

But according to your tradition, Christians should determine truth by going scripture.

You are contradicting the Bible again.

Another question.

What is the pillar and foundation of truth?

Judge Timmytimmy, where are you now?

You did not read my post well, so go back and read it.

The church/body of Christ is the pillar and foundation of the truth.
This shows that the church preserves, supports upholds, defends and transmits the truth to christians for the future. The church/body of Christ is meant to maintain the truth, defending it from errors and transmitting it for the future.

Note: The gathering of christians anywhere constitutes the church/body of Christ. Paul was not saying that the truth is got from only a particular church/ body of Christ in 1 Tim 2:15,

With what will the church/body of Christ stand as a pillar and ground for the truth to deterrmine christian beliefs and faith?

italo:


@Jusmudi, Ubenedictus, Timmytimmy pls look at this and tell me if who is obeying scripture and who is contradicting scripture with false teachings.

"For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known" (1Cor.13: 12)

our Father Abraham said to the rich man: "Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things" (Lk.16: 25) Abraham knew what they received on earth.

And they cried with a loud voice, saying, 'How long, 0 Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?' (Rev 6:10) How did they know that the Lord hadn't avenved their blood on those on earth?

"Thus says the Lord God of your father David: Because you have not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat your father, or in the ways of Asa king of Judah, but have walked in the way of the kings of Israel… the Lord will strike your people" (2Chr.21: 12-14). How did Elijah, after his departure from earth, know what was happening? How did he send this letter to Jehoram?

“Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights. Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts” (Psalm 148:1-2). And the bible says we will be like angels.

Rachel was long dead (see Gen. 48:7) and departed from the earth during the Babylonian exile when Jeremiah wrote: “Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, [and] bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they [were] not. Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.” (Jeremiah 31:15-16). The Lord answered her prayer. Again when Herod slaughtered the innocents, Matthew tells us: “In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping [for] her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not” (Matthew 2:18).

and “Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth” (Luke 15:10) And the bible says we will be like angels (who know when a sinner repents)

“For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven” (Matt. 22:30)

Finally,

“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is” (1 John 3:2). And God sees all on earth.

1. Christians will have the full knowledge of everything at the end of age (when they enter their eternal joy). Deut.29:29 The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever...

2. The story of the rich man and Lazarus was a parable as we have that of the lost coin and the lost sheep and others. So we cannot base this discuss clearly on parables. There are core reasons why parables are given, and these reasons are what we aim at to understand.

3. The martyred saints cried for vengence only at the opening of the fifth seal and it stopped at it. They never did so before the seal was broken and after they were told to rest for a while. They got to know as the seal was opened.

4. The books of chronicles recorded the events that took place when each King of Israel reigned. The letter was sent by Elijah to Joharam when he was alive. Joharam had become king of Judah in 1 Kings 22:50 before Elijah was taken by God in 2 Kings 2:11.

5. We will be like angels after we have been changed to immortality and incorruptibility at the end of age.

6.The words in Jer.31:15 were used by Jeremiah as figurative and not that Rachel was crying at that point. The crying of Rachel was used to show the extent at which the children of Ephraim had suffered. Rachel was specifically used b/c she was the mother of Joseph who gave birth to Ephraim. Check out the same Jer.31:18-20 and you will understand that Ephraim was figuratively used to show the despicable state his children were into.

7. The angels know when a sinner repents for they are ministering angels unto God and unto those who are on earth. We will be like the angels on the resurrection day.

italo:


@Jusmudi, Ubenedictus, Timmytimmy pls look at this and tell me if who is obeying scripture and who is contradicting scripture with false teachings.

"For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known" (1Cor.13: 12)

our Father Abraham said to the rich man: "Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things" (Lk.16: 25) Abraham knew what they received on earth.

And they cried with a loud voice, saying, 'How long, 0 Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?' (Rev 6:10) How did they know that the Lord hadn't avenved their blood on those on earth?

"Thus says the Lord God of your father David: Because you have not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat your father, or in the ways of Asa king of Judah, but have walked in the way of the kings of Israel… the Lord will strike your people" (2Chr.21: 12-14). How did Elijah, after his departure from earth, know what was happening? How did he send this letter to Jehoram?

“Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights. Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts” (Psalm 148:1-2). And the bible says we will be like angels.

Rachel was long dead (see Gen. 48:7) and departed from the earth during the Babylonian exile when Jeremiah wrote: “Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, [and] bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they [were] not. Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.” (Jeremiah 31:15-16). The Lord answered her prayer. Again when Herod slaughtered the innocents, Matthew tells us: “In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping [for] her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not” (Matthew 2:18).

and “Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth” (Luke 15:10) And the bible says we will be like angels (who know when a sinner repents)

“For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven” (Matt. 22:30)

Finally,

“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is” (1 John 3:2). And God sees all on earth.

my broda God bless u. Infact u are 2ruli a man. 200likes for u

Jusmudi:
Bros u ll nt accept nt now or ever, is lik u ar a witness

I am not a Jehoxah witness if that is what you mean.

Barnabaseloka:

1. Christians will have the full knowledge of everything at the end of age (when they enter their eternal joy). Deut.29:29 The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever...

2. The story of the rich man and Lazarus was a parable as we have that of the lost coin and the lost sheep and others. So we cannot base this discuss clearly on parables. There are core reasons why parables are given, and these reasons are what we aim at to understand.

3. The martyred saints cried for vengence only at the opening of the fifth seal and it stopped at it. They never did so before the seal was broken and after they were told to rest for a while. They got to know as the seal was opened.

4. The books of chronicles recorded the events that took place when each King of Israel reigned. The letter was sent by Elijah to Joharam when he was alive. Joharam had become king of Judah in 1 Kings 22:50 before Elijah was taken by God in 2 Kings 2:11.

5. We will be like angels after we have been changed to immortality and incorruptibility at the end of age.

6.The words in Jer.31:15 were used by Jeremiah as figurative and not that Rachel was crying at that point. The crying of Rachel was used to show the extent at which the children of Ephraim had suffered. Rachel was specifically used b/c she was the mother of Joseph who gave birth to Ephraim. Check out the same Jer.31:18-20 and you will understand that Ephraim was figuratively used to show the despicable state his children were into.

7. The angels know when a sinner repents for they are ministering angels unto God and unto those who are on earth. We will be like the angels on the resurrection day.

To tel u d truth. U tried bringing ur point, bt broda u just want 2 argue. Bliv me am just tired because all our points u countered it Witout gud point. Infact u ar a J.w

Jusmudi:

I hv done dt already yet ur mind can't be changed

Lol. I change my mind when you can substantially prove your case from the scriptures. I do not go with anyone just b/c a pastor or bishop or overseer or pope has said so. I am not the fan of any church leader or of any church.

Barnabaseloka:

I am not a Jehoxah witness if that is what you mean.

Guy email me mudijp@gmail.com
Guy nt dt am giving up bt we are just arguing. We dn't want 2 learn

Barnabaseloka:

Lol. I change my mind when you can substantially prove your case from the scriptures. I do not go with anyone just b/c a pastor or bishop or overseer or pope has said so. I am not the fan of any church leader or of any church.

I dn't go 2 church because of anyperson I go 2 catholic because every tin abt d church is found in d bible nd is been founded by Christ. I do attend catholic church because I recieve d body nd blood of Christ, I go 2 catholic church because I Bliv in saints, Angels, four living creatures, Elders, I Bliv in Trinity, I Bliv in my mother Mary as d gr8 intercessor

Jusmudi:

To tel u d truth. U tried bringing ur point, bt broda u just want 2 argue. Bliv me am just tired because all our points u countered it Witout gud point. Infact u ar a J.w

I have told you that I am not a JW. Prove to me the points that I have countered explicitly. When you quote the scriptures, explain them with other scrptures so that any other person can understand. Arguing a point is part of debate and there is nothing wrong with it.

Jusmudi:

Guy email me mudijp@gmail.com
Guy nt dt am giving up bt we are just arguing. We dn't want 2 learn

I underatnd what you mean. Any topic on this forum is open to debate. As I said debate constitutes argument.

Jusmudi:

I dn't go 2 church because of anyperson I go 2 catholic because every tin abt d church is found in d bible nd is been founded by Christ. I do attend catholic church because I recieve d body nd blood of Christ, I go 2 catholic church because I Bliv in saints, Angels, four living creatures, Elders, I Bliv in Trinity, I Bliv in my mother Mary as d gr8 intercessor

Bro. no church can say it is perfect. Only the word of God is perfect. This is why when christians gather as a church/body of Christ, they learn from the scriptures to come to perfection. If any christian at this time takes in EVERYTHING any church says, even when the scriptures say the contrary, I do not know what to say to such a person.

Barnabaseloka:

Bro. no church can say it is perfect. Only the word of God is perfect. This is why when christians gather as a church/body of Christ, they learn from the scriptures to come to perfection. If any christian at this time takes in EVERYTHING any church says, even when the scriptures say the contrary, I do not know what to say to such a person.

U are correct, bt I ll argue wen u prove 2 hv a point

Barnabaseloka:

I underatnd what you mean. Any topic on this forum is open to debate. As I said debate constitutes argument.

Nd Dts y u need 2 prove ur point because 2 me u just want 2 argue

Thought I should ask the catholics here:
(my questions are not concerning the title of this thread)

Was Mary perpetually a virgin? And what proof is there of this?
Did she assume to heaven? proof?
Was she the woman talked of in the revelation of john? Cause I see no reason why Jesus will be at the mercy of the devil, whom he should be greater than.

Jusmudi:

Nd Dts y u need 2 prove ur point because 2 me u just want 2 argue

I know that I have not proven a point to you b/c I explained everything I said from the scriptures, instead of following what any church has said without asking questions when I see contradictions from the scriptures. The posts written by people here tend toward argument in order to prove their points, including yours. Do you want me to just swallow everything taught in any particular church as truth? Why did the Bereans not do so when Paul (a great apostle) taught them in Acts 17:11? Why did Paul tell Timothy (and all believers in Christ) to study the scriptures in order to rightly divide (teach) it in 2 Tim.2:15? Should we just believe any teaching from any church b/c the church has said so? What if such teachings contradict the scriptures?

Barnabaseloka:

Remember that the believers spread to other parts of the world. Anywhere they gathered to worship God constituted a church as it was in Jerusalem. The church or body of Christ at Jerusalem is not the only church/body of Christ. So stop viewing the word 'church' as a gathering of distinct or particular set of early believrs.

The scriptures you have and the Holy Spirit help you know the truth, not just going to a particular church. This was why I ask the question of how one has personally studied the scriptures you have with you. Or are you waiting for any particular church to tell you everything- when to do this and when not to do that, when to move and when to stop moving, etc. If you wait for any church (maybe through pastors, bishops, pope, etc.) to direct your christian life in everything you do, when the scriptures are with you, alongside the Holy Spirit,, I wonder how such christian life will look like.

Fact:the early church was one church guided by the apostles and the structure carried on after their death. It is convenient to state centuries later that this wasn't the case but history disproves this.
Yes christianity spread, more of a reason why structure was required through the bishops who met regularly.
Due to several groups thinking they knew the truth by themselves,we had heresies like the arian,Nestorian etc.The church had to clearly state the true teaching which also includes the communion of saints.

I've tried to state how your view of everyone interpreting scriptures without guidance does not work as you don't accept the communion of saints teaching even though the church taught this way back in the Nicene Creed. I doubt the holy spirit is the cause of all the differences.

I study the scriptures but divorcing this act from it's historical context leads to confusion.
The fact that we relied on the church to compile the scriptures for us,the fact that it's the pillar and foundation of truth implies we have recourse to it has the guide.Matt 18 talks about ultimately taking disputes to the church.
The church was always established as one, the fact that Paul wrote to a number of them asking them to adhere to the teachings by word or letter says as much.

Barnabaseloka:

I know that I have not proven a point to you b/c I explained everything I said from the scriptures, instead of following what any church has said without asking questions when I see contradictions from the scriptures. The posts written by people here tend toward argument in order to prove their points, including yours. Do you want me to just swallow everything taught in any particular church as truth? Why did the Bereans not do so when Paul (a great apostle) taught them in Acts 17:11? Why did Paul tell Timothy (and all believers in Christ) to study the scriptures in order to rightly divide (teach) it in 2 Tim.2:15? Should we just believe any teaching from any church b/c the church has said so? What if such teachings contradict the scriptures?

Following your point on the Bereans, how come the Tessalonians did not agree with Paul’s teaching after going through the same scriptures in the preceding verses Acts 17:1-10 but tried to put Paul into trouble?? Also,New Testament books were not completed at this point, so the Bereans were looking through the Old Testament. I wonder why the majority of Jews never accepted Jesus as Messiah after all they’ve been reading the Torah for Centuries.

Barnabaseloka:

You determine it in your private study, or when you go for other christian seminars or bible study classes. The Holy Spirit can use another christian to teach you the truth in the scriptures in these places.

So you mean God's Church can teach error that can lead people to hell?

italo:

So you mean God's Church can teach error that can lead people to hell?

Yes, as long as they do not follow God's word.

Barnabaseloka:

Yes, as long as they do not follow God's word.

Did u even go 2 church 2day?

Jusmudi:
Did u even go 2 church 2day?

Yes