But its sad you feel this way, I have read all what you have written, but I don't agree with everything you have to say.
With your way of thinking I myself don't believe you are even a born again Christian-and why do you even believe in the bible-if you believe this all happen 2000 years ago, and nothing will happen in this day and age.
I remember listening to a Roman Catholic priest and he also didn't believe in these last day events, he stood proud mocking the word of God and those who believed, in front of the atheist on Television.
I take the word of God seriously, and if this all happened back than, then the bible will be just a storybook-nothing else-No spiritual life, No truth, No nothing.
Matthew 24: Mark and Luke reads out pretty clear to me, and when I read the end times prophesies, and I hear of the changes that are happening at a faster rate around the world, with the evidence the world has showing us, the technology the world has produce'd across our nations, I say we are heading towards that tribulation the lord had told us about.
Matthew 24: 21 "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, "No" nor shall be.
And you believe this had already happened when Jesus was crucified Jesus said>No-one has ever seen before, and if you are a person who is open-you yourself would know the lord was talking about our days, we live in these end of days. Not back then.
And these end times warnings are happening in this day and age-the technology we have now, wasn't around back then, not only do I believe but the world has shown us evidence we are in the end of days today, these are the days the lord has warned us about-not back then-but now.

paxonel:

in all my post in this thread the summary is
End time or last days according to Matthew 24 did not say that it will happen in our present generation or any generation in our future.
But rather, Jesus, after explaining what will happen (which has already happened in that generation he was talking to his disciples, not our current generation ) he said in
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation( that generation he was talking to his disciples which was about 2000 years ago ) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
then he told his disciples to be ready for his crucifixion , not us
24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh(the son of man came that 2000 years ago, but the people of that generation didn't know he was the one ).
we ought to distinguish Jesus coming to be crucified for the sins of mankind which is this Matthew 24:44 from the coming of Jesus for the final judgment in
Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
which refered to death, the day we all will die Jesus will come and judge us
it appointed once for men to die, after that, judgment.
I think, the problem is, our current day Christians are too apprehensive, claiming that Matthew 24 prophesies refered to us this current generation that it is talking about rapture in our future times, which is not true
By this, they create unnecessary fear on people's mind.
There is nothing like rapture
As for the Matthew 24:21-22, revelation 3:10 and
Mark 13:20 you quoted
i will really like to expanciate how Daniel prophesied about the great tribulation which is the abomination of desolation in the book of daniel. which he refered to the time jesus will come and die for the sins of mankind, so that you may understand properly .
But, i don't want to write plenty things again because you will not read it

I suppose you need to read the hole chapter of 1 Corinthians 15: Not just bits and pieces V's 39 all flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of man, another flesh of beast, another of fish, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial body is another.

The bible does not end here in "1 Corinthians, it continual's given us other scriptures written by the disciples having different views, the scriptures are back to back, don't forget the disciples had written the bible the way they had seen it, led by the Spirit of God-they had intrepid it 'so when we read it-we see it, in ways that we can understand it.

Jesus spoke in parables, so the crowd could understand Him. Without God people in genial think differently, with God we all think pretty much the same. usually when we read the bible and share the word of God, we are learning of each other.
I believe when Jesus said one must be born again-and baptised in the Holy Spirit, is the main key that opens a doorway into our own supernatural personnel life's.
James 2:14-26 "Faith without works is dead.

paxonel:


Thank God you came up with this
it's just that the things to address to Nigerians to bring about change of perception and mindset are so many.
i am trying hard to avoid writing plenty things.
See, Bible is beyond what you see as letters on paper.
You have to read everything and think deep to understand.
every chapter is like argument.
the structure of every argument has premises and conclusion.
sometimes the writter starts from the premises and end at the conclusion and vice versa.
so you must read everything in the chapter and draw out your summary.
you don't just read only 1 cor 15:50,51,52, and conclude that the place is talking about rapture, this is the mistake the ancient Catholic church did when they postulated the rapture doctrine.
today, Catholic church is running away from it
and penecostals are pursuing it blindly.
what was Paul's argument by writing 1 cor 15: 35 to the end, which include verse 50,51 and 52 ?
He was simply proving that there is resurrection of the dead, he never mentioned rapture or anything like people flying to the clouds.
He started by saying, some will ask, How is the dead resurrected and with what body will they come?
1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
if you follow this argument of Paul to the end of the chapter you will find out that Paul is not a madman to start talking about resurrection of the dead only to begin to divert to something else which do not relate to how men are resurrected such as rapture in verse 50,51 and 52.
if you know what sound argument is, talking about rapture at the end will never make a sound argument for someone like Paul who was highly vast and educated in his time.
If you check all Paul's writing starting from Romans, you will see how he puts all his arguments intelligently and constructively.
So, when you read 1 cor 15:35 down, having said our body will change when we resurrect, he talk about different bodies created by God, some are terrestrial (earthly bodies ) others are celestial (in space ).
He said, God gives bodies according to his will (that is when we resurrect ).
so, we will come back with a different body .
Then he now pointed out a mystery in verse 51, still relating to this resurrection thing.
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
meaning, we shall not die (sleep means death )But we shall all resurrect and change body
1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Death is not death, But blinking of the eye (eye closed and open again into life ) at the last trumpet (Death is like calling, using trumpet, that your time has reach to die. In those days trumpet was used to call people either for battle or something,so understand why Paul is using the word trumpet here )
We will be called using trumpet, meaning, we will die.And the dead shall be raised incorruptible (we will not decay with our dead body ) and we shall be changed (our body will be change after we resurrect )
Now, looking at this, is there anything like rapture there? Or people flying to the clouds?
Sometimes, I wonder what Nigerians see when they read Bible.
Please, forget your pastors and church, read your Bible for yourself

brocab:
I suppose you need to read the hole chapter of 1 Corinthians 15: Not just bits and pieces V's 39 all flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of man, another flesh of beast, another of fish, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial body is another.

The bible does not end here in "1 Corinthians, it continual's given us other scriptures written by the disciples having different views, the scriptures are back to back, don't forget the disciples had written the bible the way they had seen it, led by the Spirit of God-they had intrepid it 'so when we read it-we see it, in ways that we can understand it.

Jesus spoke in parables, so the crowd could understand Him. Without God people in genial think differently, with God we all think pretty much the same. usually when we read the bible and share the word of God, we are learning of each other.
I believe when Jesus said one must be born again-and baptised in the Holy Spirit, is the main key that opens a doorway into our own supernatural personnel life's.
James 2:14-26 "Faith without works is dead.

exactly, you are absolutely correct

Then if you can believe this-then believe Jesus is coming back after the tribulation for His Church.

paxonel:

exactly, you are absolutely correct

brocab:
But its sad you feel this way, I have read all what you have written, but I don't agree with everything you have to say.
With your way of thinking I myself don't believe you are even a born again Christian-and why do you even believe in the bible-if you believe this all happen 2000 years ago, and nothing will happen in this day and age.
I remember listening to a Roman Catholic priest and he also didn't believe in these last day events, he stood proud mocking the word of God and those who believed, in front of the atheist on Television.
I take the word of God seriously, and if this all happened back than, then the bible will be just a storybook-nothing else-No spiritual life, No truth, No nothing.
Matthew 24: Mark and Luke reads out pretty clear to me, and when I read the end times prophesies, and I hear of the changes that are happening at a faster rate around the world, with the evidence the world has showing us, the technology the world has produce'd across our nations, I say we are heading towards that tribulation the lord had told us about.
Matthew 24: 21 "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, "No" nor shall be.
And you believe this had already happened when Jesus was crucified Jesus said>No-one has ever seen before, and if you are a person who is open-you yourself would know the lord was talking about our days, we live in these end of days. Not back then.
And these end times warnings are happening in this day and age-the technology we have now, wasn't around back then, not only do I believe but the world has shown us evidence we are in the end of days today, these are the days the lord has warned us about-not back then-but now.

take a look at the Matthew 24:21
Matthew 24: 21 "For then there will be great
tribulation, such as has not been since the
beginning of the world until this time, "No"
nor shall be.
did this Scripture mentioned that this great tribulation will happen in the future?
no.
Have you asked yourself why will Jesus used the phrase " until this time" ? ( meaning, that generation he was talking to his disciples when he was yet to be crucified )
The answer is not far
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you,
This generation( that generation he was
talking to his disciples which was about
2000 years ago ) shall not pass, till all
these things be fulfilled.
Are you now saying that Jesus lied?
when he said some of his disciples will not die until they will see his kingdom coming with power which actually came the day he resurrected.
You all know that great tribulation will happen before the so called end of the world
please all these things have already happened 2000yrs ago.
The world ended 2000yrs ago,
technology today is never sign of end time.
infact, technology is blessing to this generation, we should take advantage of it and make life easy and sweet.
Nothing that is happening in the news today that has never happened in the pass.
let us enjoy this life
life is sweet
we are already in heaven.
no rapture
no end time.
God's kingdom on earth has no end.
Oyedepo will say heaven on earth.
God bless him for that

brocab:
Then if you can believe this-then believe Jesus is coming back after the tribulation for His Church.

just like that?
that because i believe that Jesus is the key to the supernatural, and he is my lord and saviour.
therefore, i should believe that rapture is real?
it does not follow like that.
give me scriptural proves that there is anything like rapture just like there are scriptures that confirmed that Jesus is the Christ and our saviour

wordoflife2us:
Please i really do not want to be confused with any biblical message to ensure that iam doing the right thing and at the right time, please dear nairalanders, i wish to know from the bibllical account what the Lord said about rapture and when it will occur? the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ to redeem His people, is it the time of rapture according the scripture? Another questions is this, will rapture come before the mark of the beast or after the mark of the beast, I need quotes from the Bible please..... We should not be deceived in anyway by the events of our days, be careful and alert, be sober, do not always get drunk, parties and all that, but please try to read your Holy Bible to get light from God to know the hidding wisdom of today's events, you will be able to recognize and know what is going on only when you read the word of God Almighty....

After the tribulation of those days the Son Of Man shall come in his Glory.

My brother the rapture comes after the Tribulation. And the Tribulation shall come at the rise of the Antichrist.

One thing I will have you know is the time is short....

You can add me on Facebook... or better still ask questions here for the benefit of all.

paxonel:

just like that?
that because i believe that Jesus is the key to the supernatural, and he is my lord and saviour.
therefore, i should believe that rapture is real?
it does not follow like that.
give me scriptural proves that there is anything like rapture just like there are scriptures that confirmed that Jesus is the Christ and our saviour

My brother I will have you understand the Scripture for yourself and not what you are taught in church of Christ fellowship.

There will be "Caught up" of believers the Scripture clearly portrays that in 1 Thess 4:15 " Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Many call it rapture the Scripture says "A caught Up".

So question is "Will there be a caught up or not?

starlingslimnet:
My brother I will have you understand the Scripture for yourself and not what you are taught in church of Christ fellowship.

There will be "Caught up" of believers the Scripture clearly portrays that in 1 Thess 4:15 " Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Many call it rapture the Scripture says "A caught Up".

So question is "Will there be a caught up or not?

i am not church of Christ.
church of christ never explained scriptures extensively .
ok, may be you didn't see this .
consider all these scriptures and have a rethinking of them.
resurrection of the dead here on earth is real.
check my other comments on this thread
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself
shall descend from heaven with a shout, with
the voice of the archangel, and with the trump
of God(This is a figurative language(find out the meaning of figurative language in English dictionary ) which summary meaning is, we shall die. Death is like God calling people using trumpet(in those days trumpet was used to call people either for battle or something ) that our time to
die has come. This happen to everybody on
earth ): and the dead in Christ shall rise first
( Dead in Christ means those who die as
Christians not as Muslims,That those who die
as christians will rise (resurrect first, followed
by non christians. Then everybody will face
judgment..it is appointed once for men to die,
after that judgment. After judgment which will
last at the period of eye blinking(twinkling of the eye in 1 Corinthians which is eye closed(death ) and open again to life. see 1 cor 15:52..Christians will open their eyes without blinking again, into life, into the womb of another woman.to be born into this world as a new creature, old life have pass away .
2Timothy 2:15 says we are saved in child
bearing .
Then, non christians will not open
their eye and blink close forever and go like
that, which is the second death in revelation or
condemnation ,. Because Jesus who is the way came to found christianity for salvation making the christian faith the only accepted religion to God ):
1Thesalonians 4:17 is another figurative
language and this is the meaning
Then we who are alive(everybody will not die
at the same time, while some dies others will
be alive waiting for their time for their
trumpet to call them at their end ) and remain
shall be caught up together with them(those
who remain and did not die shall caught up or
interact with those who was given birth to,
who once lived their former life and died and
resurrected into this world ) in the clouds, to
meet the Lord in the air.(this is a figurative
language which means heaven on earth. The
clouds represent an entity known as God's
kingdom on earth which are all christians on
earth(Those who believe that Jesus is the
coming Messiah which the jews refuses to
believe ). All christians represent God's
kingdom or heaven if you understand Jesus
parables ) And so we shall ever be with the
Lord.( meaning, the lord is inside us, our body
is his temple, God is not beyond the clouds
But in us ).
is it hard to understand?
think over it meticulously

The scriptures are already fulfilled. The one that is happening now is the 4Blood moons. Remaining 2 more to go. The Rapture will occur before d 'Great Tribulation'. There is absolute difference BTW Tribulations and d Great tribulation. Please be careful of people preaching post-tribulation to you.

The assignment of such doctrine is to make u sleep or lower ur guard against sin like the foolish 5 virgins in Matthew 25. The pre-tribulation doctrine is true and helps u to stay prepared because u don't knw when d master shall come. Whether when others are busy partying, doing business etc.

mrZENographer:
The scriptures are already fulfilled. The one that is happening now is the 4Blood moons. Remaining 2 more to go. The Rapture will occur before d 'Great Tribulation'. There is absolute difference BTW Tribulations and d Great tribulation. Please be careful of people preaching post-tribulation to you.

The assignment of such doctrine is to make u sleep or lower ur guard against sin like the foolish 5 virgins in Matthew 25. The pre-tribulation doctrine is true and helps u to stay prepared because u don't knw when d master shall come. Whether when others are busy partying, doing business etc.

Also people should be living in a Christ like manner whether they think the rapture is pre tribulation or post trib.
If they are living in a worldly way because they believe the rapture is post tribulation, then they are not living a Godly life and they might be not worthy to go even if post trib turned out to be right.

wisdom demand that i live a godly life and maintain my faith in christ because I have conscience towards my fellow men, not because I'm afraid of any rapture or end of the world .
By this, my life is totally relaxed without fear to go about my normal duty and i experience total happiness

brocab:
Is this rapture before the tribulation, or after the tribulation?

Jesus is very clear on this question; evangelist sometimes try to scare people to Christ using the tribulation. The word "tribulation" is also called "distress" and there is one before what is popularly called the rapture which is in the scripture below and is triggered by the revelation of the antichrist which also will happen before the "rapture" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3). During this period, the just shall in real sense live by faith. This is the time to learn to absolutely trust in God and live by faith in His promises otherwise one will become part of those who will "fall away".
Read what Jesus said below:

Matthew 24:21-30New King James Version (NKJV)

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

29[b] “Immediately after the tribulation of those days[/b] the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

Jesus told us not to be afraid and not to be cowards. We must be ready to stand true to our love for God and for one another despite global hatred on a larger scale against Christians that is coming upon the Church.
*The tribulation comes with the antiChrist,

*After the rapture the antiChrist will continue reigning

* but we will return with Christ to overthrow him (Revelation 19) and start the millennium (1000 years) reign with Christ on this earth(Revelation 20).

* Those who died for Christ during the reign of the antiChrist after the rapture will be raised up to reign with those who went with Christ at the rapture and returned (Revelation 20:5)

* Satan will be bound all this time

* After the 1000 years Satan will be released and he will deceive and lead war against Christ but his people will be devoured and he will be thrown into the lake of fire(Revelation 20:7-10)

* After the war the " Great White Throne Judgment" of all will take place (Revelation 20:11-15). It is the judgement of all who were devoured at the war and all who were not raised to reign with Christ (compare Revelation 20:4-6, 12-14). It is not the judgment of the saints

*After this there be a new heaven (sky and space) and a new earth and the new Jerusalem city will descend from Heaven (God's dwelling) and God the Father will live among us on earth and there will be no more death, sicknesses, diseases, pain or sorrows(Revelation 21:1-4)
Come Lord Jesus!

PMIcon:


Jesus is very clear on this question; evangelist sometimes try to scare people to Christ using the tribulation. The word "tribulation" is also called "distress" and there is one before what is popularly called the rapture which is in the scripture below and is triggered by the revelation of the antichrist which also will happen before the "rapture" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3). During this period, the just shall in real sense live by faith. This is the time to learn to absolutely trust in God and live by faith in His promises otherwise one will become part of those who will "fall away".
Read what Jesus said below:

Matthew 24:21-30New King James Version (NKJV)

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

29[b] “Immediately after the tribulation of those days[/b] the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

Jesus told us not to be afraid and not to be cowards. We must be ready to stand true to our love for God and for one another despite global hatred on a larger scale against Christians that is coming upon the Church.
*The tribulation comes with the antiChrist,
*After the rapture the antiChrist will continue reigning
* but we will return with Christ to overthrow him (Revelation 19) and start the millennium (1000 years) reign with Christ on this earth(Revelation 20).
* Those who died for Christ during the reign of the antiChrist after the rapture will be raised up to reign with those who went with Christ at the rapture and returned (Revelation 20:5)
* Satan will be bound all this time
* After the 1000 years Satan will be released and he will deceive and lead war against Christ but his people will be devoured and he will be thrown into the lake of fire(Revelation 20:7-10)
* After the war the " Great White Throne Judgment" of all will take place

Bros o
can you please define who is Antichrist according to Bible?
please back it up with, atleast a Scripture

paxonel:

Bros o
can you please define who is Antichrist according to Bible?
please back it up with, atleast a Scripture

Thank you for drawing my attention to my choice of the word "Antichrist".
* The word antichrist or false christs appear in plural in the Bible because in a sense there "are MANY antichrist in the world" since the time of the apostles as shown in these scriptures:

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
—1 John 2:18 KJV

Many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh; any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist!
--2 John 1:7 NRSV

Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
—1 John 2:22 NRSV

By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. And this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming; and now it is already in the world.
—1 John 4:2–3 NRSV

But there is a man, whom Daniel described as a king of the North (Daniel 11) who will "magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods" (Dan. 11:36), Paul described him as the lawless one/ man of lawlessness and called the season of his being revealed " the rebellion" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4), in the book of Revelation he was referred to "the beast" who came out of the sea (Revelation 13:1-10).

The description by these three scriptural witnesses were of a singular individual. He also fulfills the description of one of the "many antichrists" because he denies the Father and the Son (2 John 1:7). That is why he his called "the antichrist. Just like there many anointed ones but only one " the Anointed One" that is, " the Christ".
The man of lawlessness is more appropriate though.

Confusion Na wa!!!

PMIcon:


Thank you for drawing my attention to my choice of the word "Antichrist".
* The word antichrist or false christs appear in plural in the Bible because in a sense there "are MANY antichrist in the world" since the time of the apostles as shown in these scriptures:

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
—1 John 2:18 KJV

Many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh; any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist!
--2 John 1:7 NRSV

Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
—1 John 2:22 NRSV

By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. And this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming; and now it is already in the world.
—1 John 4:2–3 NRSV

But there is a man, whom Daniel described as a king of the North (Daniel 11) who will "magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods" (Dan. 11:36), Paul described him as the lawless one/ man of lawlessness and called the season of his being revealed " the rebellion" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4), in the book of Revelation he was referred to "the beast" who came out of the sea (Revelation 13:1-10).

The description by these three scriptural witnesses were of a singular individual. He also fulfills the description of one of the "many antichrists" because he denies the Father and the Son (2 John 1:7). That is why he his called "the antichrist. Just like there many anointed ones but only one " the Anointed One" that is, " the Christ".
The man of lawlessness is more appropriate though.

ok.,
from the scriptures, antichrists are humans, not spirits, even though it says the spirit of Antichrist ?

paxonel:

ok.,
from the scriptures, antichrists are humans, not spirits, even though it says the spirit of Antichrist ?

Yes, humans operation under an influence that is not the Spirit of God. Humans are spirits too but living in a earthly house called body.

PMIcon:

Yes, humans operation under an influence that is not the Spirit of God. Humans are spirits too but living in a earthly house called body.

Humans are spirits? Pls explain.

I understand what you are saying but the separation of Revelation is being used away from the rest of the bible, all claiming Jesus will come back a second time with the saints, and when we read other scriptures besides Revelation, Jesus is coming back once with His angels to gather up the tares, firstly putting them into the fire , and gather up the wheat {the elect} putting them into the barns..
Which to say, we will be rounded up last, the {tares} non believers will be put into the fire before the believers {wheat} will be gathered into the barns.

Matthew 24:22 "And unless those day were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elects sake those days will be shortened. So Jesus is not saying we will be rapture'd before the tribulation period, but rather near the end.

Again we look into this same scripture written in Mark 13:20 "And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved, but for the elects sake, "Whom He Chose" He will shortened those days.
Whom the Lord choose. Again this scripture tell us, pretty much the same as Matthew, still saying we will go through the tribulation period, and we won't be taken up in the rapture before this time take place.
Jesus said, and those days will be shortened, for whom He chooses to take up into heaven.
What does Jesus mean by shortened? it sounds to me, He just said:we will suffer some persecutions.
When we read Revelation 6:10-11 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until "You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth.
Did not the saints in heaven asked the Lord how long will it be, and the Lord said:In V's 11 until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren , who would be killed as they were, was completed.
Does this say some will have to suffer in number as the saints did in heaven.

Luke 21:9-17 "But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified, for these things must come to pass first, but the 'End' will not come immediately." 'Then nation will raise against nation and kingdom against kingdom {He is talking about WW3}
Earthquakes, famines, pestilences; fearful sights and great signs from heaven, But before these things happen, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues {Churches} prolonging you in prisons, we will be brought before the kings {judges} and the rulers for My name's sake

If we were to be rapture'd before these things happen? Then who is Jesus talking about when already in some countries they are experiencing, these end time events' more then others.
And again when the world starts rocking and rolling-again if we were rapture'd up before the tribulation period than who will suffer in Jesus's name.

PMIcon:


Jesus is very clear on this question; evangelist sometimes try to scare people to Christ using the tribulation. The word "tribulation" is also called "distress" and there is one before what is popularly called the rapture which is in the scripture below and is triggered by the revelation of the antichrist which also will happen before the "rapture" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3). During this period, the just shall in real sense live by faith. This is the time to learn to absolutely trust in God and live by faith in His promises otherwise one will become part of those who will "fall away".
Read what Jesus said below:

Matthew 24:21-30New King James Version (NKJV)

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

29[b] “Immediately after the tribulation of those days[/b] the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

Jesus told us not to be afraid and not to be cowards. We must be ready to stand true to our love for God and for one another despite global hatred on a larger scale against Christians that is coming upon the Church.
*The tribulation comes with the antiChrist,

*After the rapture the antiChrist will continue reigning

* but we will return with Christ to overthrow him (Revelation 19) and start the millennium (1000 years) reign with Christ on this earth(Revelation 20).

* Those who died for Christ during the reign of the antiChrist after the rapture will be raised up to reign with those who went with Christ at the rapture and returned (Revelation 20:5)

* Satan will be bound all this time

* After the 1000 years Satan will be released and he will deceive and lead war against Christ but his people will be devoured and he will be thrown into the lake of fire(Revelation 20:7-10)

* After the war the " Great White Throne Judgment" of all will take place (Revelation 20:11-15). It is the judgement of all who were devoured at the war and all who were not raised to reign with Christ (compare Revelation 20:4-6, 12-14). It is not the judgment of the saints

*After this there be a new heaven (sky and space) and a new earth and the new Jerusalem city will descend from Heaven (God's dwelling) and God the Father will live among us on earth and there will be no more death, sicknesses, diseases, pain or sorrows(Revelation 21:1-4)
Come Lord Jesus!

Rapture is a word used by Most Christians who seem to think they will be rapture'd up into heaven before the tribulation period starts, not really knowing the tribulation period had already started.
Jesus had written' He will come for His elect at the end of this age {meaning at the end of this world}
Matthew 24:31 "And he will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect.
Matthew 13:30 "Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.
And later the disciples asked Jesus what did this mean and Jesus explained it like this.
Matthew 13:38-40 "The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. "The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the End of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
"Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the End of the age. "The son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and cast them into the furnace of fire. "Then the righteous will shine forth.
And Here's the scripture you asked for, proving Jesus is our Saviour.
1 John 4:14 "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Saviour of the world

paxonel:

just like that?
that because i believe that Jesus is the key to the supernatural, and he is my lord and saviour.
therefore, i should believe that rapture is real?
it does not follow like that.
give me scriptural proves that there is anything like rapture just like there are scriptures that confirmed that Jesus is the Christ and our saviour

Your not understanding the scripture Matthew 24:21 "Jesus was predicting the future, and when He said until this time, He was talking in terms of the great tribulation at the end of the age.

Even the prophets in the Old testament, prophesied of Jesus's coming, they spoke well and truly into the future, not at their own time flame.
This is why we have the Old testament and the New testament.
Since you believe we are already in heaven on earth in this day and age, then at least you could show me in scripture where the Lord allowed Sin into heaven

paxonel:

take a look at the Matthew 24:21
Matthew 24: 21 "For then there will be great
tribulation, such as has not been since the
beginning of the world until this time, "No"
nor shall be.
did this Scripture mentioned that this great tribulation will happen in the future?
no.
Have you asked yourself why will Jesus used the phrase " until this time" ? ( meaning, that generation he was talking to his disciples when he was yet to be crucified )
The answer is not far
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you,
This generation( that generation he was
talking to his disciples which was about
2000 years ago ) shall not pass, till all
these things be fulfilled.
Are you now saying that Jesus lied?
when he said some of his disciples will not die until they will see his kingdom coming with power which actually came the day he resurrected.
You all know that great tribulation will happen before the so called end of the world
please all these things have already happened 2000yrs ago.
The world ended 2000yrs ago,
technology today is never sign of end time.
infact, technology is blessing to this generation, we should take advantage of it and make life easy and sweet.
Nothing that is happening in the news today that has never happened in the pass.
let us enjoy this life
life is sweet
we are already in heaven.
no rapture
no end time.
God's kingdom on earth has no end.
Oyedepo will say heaven on earth.
God bless him for that

wordoflife2us:
Please i really do not want to be confused with any biblical message to ensure that iam doing the right thing and at the right time, please dear nairalanders, i wish to know from the bibllical account what the Lord said about rapture and when it will occur? the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ to redeem His people, is it the time of rapture according the scripture? Another questions is this, will rapture come before the mark of the beast or after the mark of the beast, I need quotes from the Bible please..... We should not be deceived in anyway by the events of our days, be careful and alert, be sober, do not always get drunk, parties and all that, but please try to read your Holy Bible to get light from God to know the hidding wisdom of today's events, you will be able to recognize and know what is going on only when you read the word of God Almighty....

Do not be deceived with wrong transmission that was passed down to us. There's nothing like rapture! And there's nothing like the second coming of Jesus! He made this clear to us when He said: ...I go to the Father and ye shall henceforth not see me... He categorically told us another that would come after Him, to remind us of all He taught us, guide us into all truth, show us more things to come, and then bring the Judgment. Where confusion arose is our inability to differentiate between the Son of God and the Son of Man. Jesus, the Son of God described Him using many names such as: The Comforter, The Bride Groom, The Spirit of Truth, The Son of Man. Revelations helps throw more light on the One Who's coming when it states thus: Greetings from Him which is, which was, and which is to come; and from the Seven Spirits before His Throne. And from Jesus Christ. In paying close attention to this very portion, it is clear that nine personalities are mentioned here. First is, Him, which is, which was, and which is to come. Second are the Seven Spirits before His Throne. Third is Jesus, the Son of God Who was there only to bear witness of Him Who is to come. Now, Jesus we know, our concern should be to recognise Him Who is to come with the descriptions Jesus used when He talked about Him while on earth, but we av failed and that practically renders our faith blind and dead. With regards to the rapture, one only needs to understand the workings of God in His Justice and Love. Also, the operations of His Laws resting in Creation. There can never be any question of rapture without one having to first of all shed the physical body through physical death. And in accordance with the Law of Spiritual Gravitation, only the souls who through their good deeds while on earth acquired lighter bodies can be lifted up to the regions of Light. While those who through their evil deeds on earth acquired heavy ethereal bodies and must be dragged down into the abyss. There are no other ways rather than the ways of the Laws of God which bear His Divine Will. All other beliefs are nothing but religious dogmatism which only arise out of total blind faith and lack of knowledge.

PMIcon:

Yes, humans operation under an influence that is not the Spirit of God. Humans are spirits too but living in a earthly house called body.

But people do preach Antichrist as if he is one spirit that will come and dominate humans making people to be afraid ?

brocab:
Your not understanding the scripture Matthew 24:21 "Jesus was predicting the future, and when He said until this time, He was talking in terms of the great tribulation at the end of the age.

Even the prophets in the Old testament, prophesied of Jesus's coming, they spoke well and truly into the future, not at their own time flame.
This is why we have the Old testament and the New testament.
Since you believe we are already in heaven on earth in this day and age, then at least you could show me in scripture where the Lord allowed Sin into heaven

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise(heaven ), and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful(sinful ) for a man to utter.
the question is, do angels speak sinful words?
the answer is no.
it is humans that are sinful.
so, if God is merciful to sinners and bring them into his kingdom, who are we to question him?
Angels even say what is man that thou(God)should mindful of him? ( I can't remember the scripture )
Another thing is,
Revelation 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it(heaven )
the question is, assuming heaven is beyond the clouds, how will the kings of earth bring their glory to it?
They will climb ladder?
lol

brocab:
Your not understanding the scripture Matthew 24:21 "Jesus was predicting the future, and when He said until this time, He was talking in terms of the great tribulation at the end of the age.

Even the prophets in the Old testament, prophesied of Jesus's coming, they spoke well and truly into the future, not at their own time flame.
This is why we have the Old testament and the New testament.
Since you believe we are already in heaven on earth in this day and age, then at least you could show me in scripture where the Lord allowed Sin into heaven

There's no heaven on earth! U would be more correct if u said 'hell on earth.
Notwithstanding, there are those who feel and enjoy the blessings and peace of heaven while on earth, and these are those who recognise the Laws of the Father and adjust their whole life to It. The Laws being the Will of the Father.
Certainly, the end is coming. But this post no sign of the end of earth existence. It simply means the end of all darkness, evil and those who take sides with it. We are already standing in that long predicted final judgment and the end is at hand. This end is actively at work through natural and man-made disasters, accidents and other vices we hear and see on TV and radio stations on daily basis, others we witness with our eyes. The end occurs on daily basis and individually, and will truly be an end when all the evil people and their darkness are cleared off the gross material creation. Then will the new dawn marks itself with the setting in of the Millennium with the leadership of the Son of Man Himself. It will be a glorious moment for all who survived the Last Judgment. Also, a moment of schooling for those souls on how they will live in heaven where only the Will of God reigns. Hence the fulfilment of the Lord's prayer, Thy Will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

The funny thing about these rapture people is, they don't know what they want.
They want to be carried away from earth( when this happen , they will not be living on earth anymore. which is equal to death )
Yet they want to make money and enjoy this life.
so, they go to work and take their work seriously and forget about rapture, because they don't want to die

paxonel:
The funny thing about these rapture people is, they don't know what they want.
They want to be carried away from earth( when this happen , they will not be living on earth anymore. which is equal to death )
Yet they want to make money and enjoy this life.
so, they go to work and take their work seriously and forget about rapture, because they don't want to die

rapture is not death, we will alive somewhere living

Proximo73:

rapture is not death, we will alive somewhere living

of what significance will that be to other people who will remain on earth after you have all gone?
to them, you do not exist anywhere on earth anymore.
is that not equal to death?
lf you are raptured you have lost contact with your love ones here on earth.
If people die, they also lost contact with their love ones

paxonel:

of what significance will that be to other people who will remain on earth after you have all gone?
to them, you do not exist anywhere on earth anymore.
is that not equal to death?
lf you are raptured you have lost contact with your love ones here on earth.
If people die, they also lost contact with their love ones

when we all go away life on earth will be unbearable to people who remain. they will suffer tribulation

Proximo73:

when we all go away life on earth will be unbearable to people who remain. they will suffer tribulation

is that your prayer?
so you are wishing tribulation for other people simply because you are not there again?
why don't you just go to your rapture and leave us to continue our enjoyment?

2 Corinthians 12:4 "{So you believe it was swearing that no-man can utter}
Weather He was referring to some angelic/heavenly language here 'we don't know. We do know what he heard was inexpressible. We also know that even if he could express it somehow through some supernatural ability, he makes it extremely clear it was not lawful for a man to express. Paul was forbidden for even try to express it, even if he had been able. What ever the sounds were, they were reserved for heaven only, and not some kind of heavenly, spiritual language God had given for the use of men.
It is also interesting to note that in many spiritual accounts where angels communicated with people they spoke to them clearly in there own language.
Jesus said: In Revelation 21:27 "Nothing impure will enter Heaven..
Have you heard the saying one must be born again.
In John 3:3 "Jesus answered, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven.
But these scriptures shouldn't worry you, you claim you are already in heaven.
So make room and allow the rest of us' enjoy the ride into paradise.

paxonel:

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise(heaven ), and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful(sinful ) for a man to utter.
the question is, do angels speak sinful words?
the answer is no.
it is humans that are sinful.
so, if God is merciful to sinners and bring them into his kingdom, who are we to question him?
Angels even say what is man that thou(God)should mindful of him? ( I can't remember the scripture )
Another thing is,
Revelation 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it(heaven )
the question is, assuming heaven is beyond the clouds, how will the kings of earth bring their glory to it?
They will climb ladder?
lol