Being a Christian is really one hell of a job.

Aside the Church-bound duties required of "true" Christians (which are often quite inconvenient and demanding), one mustn't ignore the emotional, mental and psychological War that goes on in the mind of those one who are quite knowledgable or well versed with the Bible.

Trying hard to resist the doubts they tend to encounter is the order of the day for those who read wide and do lots of research in an aim to either justify or investigate their long-held faith. I was no exception.

Ranging from the bloodstained Old Testament to Scientific ludicrosities, Blatant absurdities to historical flaws, authenticities and many many more, I couldn't help giving Doubt a chance.

About this time last year, I wrote a piece here on Nairaland: Questions That Baffle Me About God
and even though it never made frontpage, I'm glad it had the amount of audience it did.

Now I'm here with something quite troubling; something a logical mind should find really really disturbing.

I remember having a dialogue with a Pastor friend some weeks ago when he was on an outreach preaching about the Second Coming of Christ and why everyone should "mend their ways".

I can't quite remember his reaction when I asked "Don't you think this Jesus is taking too long? Are you sure he's coming at all?"

but I do remember him sarcastically replying me by saying "Uhmm.... Our Lord is warming up his whips for strongheads like you, so chill..."

Well, I chuckled. But then, I needed him to go into his Bible to see for himself why I asked such a question, so I directed him to Mark 13:30 which states:

". . .this generation will by no means pass away until these things happen. . ."
(with "these things" referring to the end time, tribulation and the Second Coming talked about in the preceding verses).

He laughed. "Cheap!" He said.

"You don't understand Greek so you wouldn't know" (hehehehe does he understand Greek? Well.... I wouldn't know either lol)

"The word 'generation' in Greek is 'genea' which Lexicons define as 'people of the same kind' so from Acts 11:26, we can tell whom these people are. They are Christians, which means Christ-like. So Christians will never pass away until the Son comes". He concluded.

That was amazing. Perfect wordplay. However, the context of this passage made it clear that it literally referred to those still alive at the time. He refused; holding still to his explanation. Then I took him to Matthew 16:28 which states:

"Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here that will not taste death at all until they see the Son of man coming in His Kingdom."
(also found in Mark 9:1; Luke 9:27)

His face didn't look so bright afterwards even though he tried making me take his explanation for an answer and how I needed the Holy Spirit to understand certain passages and so on, it was obvious that he was well aware of these passages and the problems the pose and willingly ignored them for fear of doubt (I once did that too). So he never expected it to be used in a dialogue with him. He obviously didn't research on it the way he should have and that's the same thing most Christians do today. Their fear of doubt has amounted to their fear of knowledge and information and honestly, it's really unfortunate.

Now, back to the passage, we all know that everyone "standing [t]here" are now dead, buried and forgotten (that's assuming Jesus even existed)

So what does that make of the Second Coming? A Failed Prophecy or not?

Let's be honest with ourselves.

Thank you.

Standing in this context means to survive....and remember a day to god is like a thousand years...so the surviving generations are still there..

That's how a christian distorts plain english and reality..

davien:
Standing in this context means to survive....and remember a day to god is like a thousand years...so the surviving generations are still there..

That's how a christian distorts plain english and reality..

LOL! The Bible has really made a wordsmith of Christians. Twisting, Re-interpreting, adding of Eisegesis, e.t.c just to defend what they believe. It has also made Christians terrible researchers.

It's funny, but it's really unfortunate.

Verily!! I say onto thee. The Son of God will surely come, definitely but maybe not today.

Most times I'm forced to think that the anger of God on the last day will be too much, that's why Jesus hasn't come yet despite all these disgusting atrocities of gay marriages, in breeding, ritual killings, insurgency etc.

Another thing is man's unquenchable thirst for knowledge and adaptation. E.g seeking for ways to make other neighbouring planets habitat-able.

Perhaps, he intrigued by man's effort to adapt or devising other ways through which he will make those quests fruitless.

And what about the innocent kids, babies and countable good people? Perhaps, we are enjoying their graces.

Maybe we re in the last phase which is also known as the grace period. Who knows?

emmyrichie:
Verily!! I say onto thee. The Son of God will surely come, definitely but maybe not today.

Kindly read the post. Thank you.

Bump

emmyrichie:
Verily!! I say onto thee. The Son of God will surely come, definitely but maybe not today.

lolz! Did you read the op post at all?

Op no one can tell,as a matter of fact,most pastors are actually in doubt of the second coming,the few who even tried to defend the second coming failed because of insufficient back up from the bible,but God work in ways men can"t fathom,hence we should try to believe without doubt,let try to put our hope in him because none knows, even pastors are as confused as yhu and i, we keep hearing,the kingdom of God is at hand" but for how long? Since no man know it not,let just believe what we are told and what we read about....

Jollyjoy:
lolz! Did you read the op post at all?

As in ehn, I tire for this people. Lol

Jollyjoy:
Op no one can tell,as a matter of fact,most pastors are actually in doubt of the second coming,the few who even tried to defend the second coming failed because of insufficient back up from the bible,but God work in ways men can"t fathom,hence we should try to believe without doubt,let try to put our hope in him because none knows, even pastors are as confused as yhu and i, we keep hearing,the kingdom of God is at hand" but for how long? Since no man know it not,let just believe what we are told and what we read about....

Since I registered in Nairaland, I don't think I've ever seen such honesty.

Jollyjoy:
lolz! Did you read the op post at all?

my dear, I wish I did. I was on a bus and I thought he was one of the antagonists in this section.

Like a thief in the night he shall come.
2Peter 3: 3-5.
3 Knowing this therefore that there shall come in the last days, scoffers, walking after their own lust
4 and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willing are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water.
7. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word and kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgement and pedition of ungodly men.
8. But, belovedn be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some mencount slackness, but is longsuffering,towards, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night...

Anas09:
Like a thief in the night he shall come.
2Peter 3: 3-5.
3 Knowing this therefore that there shall come in the last days, scoffers, walking after their own lust
4 and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willing are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water.
7. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word and kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgement and pedition of ungodly men.
8. But, belovedn be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some mencount slackness, but is longsuffering,towards, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night...

Which kind rubbish be this nau?? Una no dey read thread before una comment Shuoo!!

Take time read this thing na, you no be auto-comment robot.

there was never a jesus, christianity is a scam.

invented by paul who suffered an epileptic seizure when he fell from a horse on his way to damascus.

epilepsy is known to cause severe psychiatric disorders such as abnormal mental vision and illusory perceptions

Reiyvinn
"Truly I say to you, there are some of
those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." ( Matthew 16:28)

This prophecy was directed to john , The prophecy was actually fulfilled in its
entirety in the late first century. If you
read the book of Revelation, you will see that John, the apostle to whom the
prophecy was directed, saw Jesus coming in His glory to establish His kingdom:
Revelation 21:2
I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem,
coming down out of heaven from God,
prepared as a bride beautifully dressed
for her husband.


This is what the entire book of revelation
describes - the second coming of Jesus
Christ. John saw it all in a vision, as it will
happen. The prophecy was fulfilled! The
prophecy does not say that John would
not die before Christ returned. It said
that he would not die before seeing the
return of Jesus Christ. What is awesome
about the vision reported by John is that
he did not understand what he was
seeing, but reported it as he saw it. As
such, he includes descriptions of a giant
meteor collision with the earth, battles
with mechanized machines that sound
like tanks, and huge armies(200,000,000
men), which would not even be possible
until at least the 20th century.

*modified*
I urged every christians brothers and sisters to read this thread, very interesting concerning the end of days.
https://www.nairaland.com/1853536/end-days-end-harvest

My brother am glad I made it here early so I can share my Spiritual blessings with you.

In asking question you have done well for that is how the Apostles learn from Christ, asking questions on things they cannot comprehend.You have done a good thing.

Concerning the Scripture you quoted brother...". . .this generation will by no means pass away until
these things happen. . ." I will have you understand brother that Christ was beforehand describing some events pertaining to his second coming and the end.The "This" then in the word of Christ refers to the generation which all this things will take place.And all these didn't take place in the time of Apostles for there is no "Abomination that causes desolation". Christ then is speaking of a generation in which the abomination that makes desolate will be committed and truly, this(That do abomination that makes desolate) shall not pass away till all things Christ describe take place.

And I tell you brother we are that generation, the "this" Christ Speaks of is this generation. Surely I tell you all these shall take place in this generation. We are the last generation.

So my brother... you have started the race... strengthen what is weak in you and run the race. to the end.

For surely I saw a golden ring in the clouds of heaven and a white dove following therefore. Prepare for the coming of the Lord for the hour of our redemption is near..

So brother I dedicate this song to you and all Christains on Nairaland who is waiting for the coming of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

A Song Of Encouragement written by Olaleye Olusanya(Starlingslimnet)

Title: We Are Marching On To Zion

In His Power He Comes
In His Glory He Rise
Lift Up Your Heads And See Our King
Coming In The Clouds

Chorus

And With A Shout Of Joy,Mighty Voice
We Are Marching On To Zion
The Great City Of Our God

We Are Marching On Forward
We Are Growing Up In Grace
As One Body We Stand
In Jesus Our Lord

Chorus

And With A Shout Of Joy,Mighty Voice
We Are Marching On To Zion
The Great City Of Our God

Out Of Sheol They Come
Out Of Bonds They Are Loosed
Crying Out With A Mighty Voice
Death. Where Is Thy Sting?

Chorus

And With A Shout Of Joy,Mighty Voice
We Are Marching On To Zion
The Great City Of Our God

©2015

Reiyvinn:
That was amazing. Perfect wordplay. However, the context of this passage made it clear that it literally referred to those still alive at the time. He refused; holding still to his explanation. Then I took him to Matthew 16:28 which states:

"Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here that will not taste death at all until they see the Son of man coming in His Kingdom."
(also found in Mark 9:1; Luke 9:27)

His face didn't look so bright afterwards even though he tried making me take his explanation for an answer and how I needed the Holy Spirit to understand certain passages and so on, it was obvious that he was well aware of these passages and the problems the pose and willingly ignored them for fear of doubt (I once did that too). So he never expected it to be used in a dialogue with him. He obviously didn't research on it the way he should have and that's the same thing most Christians do today. Their fear of doubt has amounted to their fear of knowledge and information and honestly, it's really unfortunate.

Now, back to the passage, we all know that everyone "standing [t]here" are now dead, buried and forgotten (that's assuming Jesus even existed)

So what does that make of the Second Coming? A Failed Prophecy or not?

Let's be honest with ourselves.

Thank you.

You know, everytime we say you need the Holy Spirit to understand the bible, athiests and unbelievers always think that is one excuse we christian use to explain away verses we can't rationalize. But it is not! The truth is you honestly do need the Holy Spirit to understand the bible.

Matthew 16v28 -Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom.

Throughout the ministry of Jesus, He preached, "Repent : for the kingdom of God is at hand or near" -(Matthew 4v17, Mark 1v15)

The question then is, If Jesus preached that the kingdom was near, when did the kingdom come?

Daniel 2v44 -And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

In the days of which kings will the kingdom of God be set up? In the days of the kings of the roman empire.

(Note -The roman empire is the fourth kingdom represented with the legs of iron, and feet of iron with clay). Please read the entire chapter of Daniel 2; to see the dream of Nebuchadnezzar and the interpretation of Daniel.

According to the prophecy of Daniel in his interpretation of the dream of Nebuchadnezzer; the kingdom of God will come and be set up when Jesus rose from the dead. Because Jesus was the stone cut out without hands (Daniel 2v34), that struck the feet of the statue; to set up the kingdom of God that later became a great mountain (Daniel 2v35).

So the kingdom of God came and was set up when Jesus died and rose. The kingdom has come since when Jesus rose. Presently it is still being established in the hearts of men; and in the age to come, it will be established in the earth. But it has come.

So the writers of the scripture did not goof, and Jesus did not make an unfulfilled prophecy when He said;

Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom.

Because those who saw Christ in the flesh after His resurrection, in His glorified incorruptible body; actually "saw the Son of man come in His kingdom". Because at the resurrection of Christ was when the kingdom was set up.

And many people were indeed standing there when Jesus was talking who did not die until they had seen Jesus in the flesh after His resurrection, in His glorified incorruptible body.

1Cor 15v5-8 -And He (Jesus) was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

After that, He was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

After that, He was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

And last of all He was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Those who had the privilege of seeing the resurrected Christ in the flesh, in His glorified incorruptible body, can be said to have seen the son of man come in His kingdom. Because that was when the kingdom was set up according to Daniel 2

The coming of Christ that will be announced with a shout, the voice of the archangel and the trump of God; is actually when the kingdom will be phyically established on the earth and Jesus will be bodily enthroned on the earth. But that is not when the kingdom came, the kingdom came at His resurrection.

When people don't know how to interprete the scriptures, they say Jesus goofed, or that the writers made a mistake. That's not true. You really do need the Holy Spirit.

God bless.

malvisguy212:
Reiyvinn
"Truly I say to you, there are some of
those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." ( Matthew 16:28)

This prophecy was directed to john , The prophecy was actually fulfilled in its
entirety in the late first century. . .

Malvis my guy, what did you smoke eat this night?

Look at the two coloured and bolded statements, tell me how "some of. . ." [plural] can be directed to just John [singular]

I've always told you to stop smoking eating this thing. It's really not good for you bro!

. . .If you
read the book of Revelation, you will see that John, the apostle to whom the
prophecy was directed, saw Jesus coming in His glory to establish His kingdom:
Revelation 21:2
I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem,
coming down out of heaven from God,
prepared as a bride beautifully dressed
for her husband.


This is what the entire book of revelation
describes - the second coming of Jesus
Christ. John saw it all in a vision, as it will
happen. The prophecy was fulfilled! The
prophecy does not say that John would
not die before Christ returned. It said
that he would not die before seeing the
return of Jesus Christ. What is awesome
about the vision reported by John is that
he did not understand what he was
seeing, but reported it as he saw it. As
such, he includes descriptions of a giant
meteor collision with the earth, battles
with mechanized machines that sound
like tanks, and huge armies(200,000,000
men), which would not even be possible
until at least the 20th century

This is absolute balderdash. My God, what's the meaning of this

Let me jog your memory a bit to what Jesus said so you'll know that your attempt at playing smart here is really derisible:

"Truly I say unto you that this generation shall not pass away till all these things take place."
- Mark 13:30

What things??

v.22:- Coming of False Christs

v.24-25:- Darkening of the sun and stars falling to earth

v.26-27:- Coming of the Son of man with his angels to gather his elects

This is definitely apocalyptic, not about what he intended to "reveal" to just one man.

I'm tired of all these twaddle you often come up with. Sorry to sound so nasty but I seriously am.

Do a proper research before making an exegesis, not what you did up here.

Cheers.

Reiyvinn:


Malvis my guy, what did you smoke eat this night?

Look at the two coloured and bolded statements, tell me how "some of. . ." [plural] can be directed to just John [singular]

I've always told you to stop smoking eating this thing. It's really not good for you bro!




This is absolute balderdash. My God, what's the meaning of this

Let me jog your memory a bit to what Jesus said so you'll know that your attempt at playing smart here is really derisible:

"Truly I say unto you that this generation shall not pass away till all these things take place."
- Mark 13:30

What things??

v.22:- Coming of False Christs

v.24-25:- Darkening of the sun and stars falling to earth

v.26-27:- Coming of the Son of man with his angels to gather his elects

This is definitely apocalyptic, not about what he intended to "reveal" to just one man.

I'm tired of all these twaddle you often come up with. Sorry to sound so nasty but I seriously am.

Do a proper research before making an exegesis, not what you did up here.

Cheers.

after Jesus took john James and peter then he say those word to them ,but the prophecy was directed to john, peter and James were given a glimpse of christ second coming glory and in revelation john was given the vision of christ judging the world.
Out of curiosity, are you a jehovah witness before converting to atheists ?

malvisguy212:
after Jesus took john James and peter then he say those word to them ,but the prophecy was directed to john, peter and James were given a glimpse of christ second coming glory and in revelation john was given the vision of christ judging the world. . .

Still off. Na wa oh.

Let me show you how off your point is from every angle.

I quote Matthew 16:21 - 17:1 (KJV)-:

"From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes and be killed, and be raise again the third day.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me Satan: thou art an offense unto me.
.
.
.
.
.
The Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here which shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his Kingdom.

AND after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain aparts. And he was transfigured before them. . ."

Hope you're taking note of the bolded texts and seeing your flaws?

1.) Jesus was addressing his disciples, not just three.

2.) He said some OF them will witness the event, not just one.

3.) The transfiguration took place six days later.

Take a look at Mark 13:30 once again.

"Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till these things be done. " (KJV)

The words "be done" is translated from the Greek word "genêtai" which is a participle form of the word "ginomai" which Strong's Concordance #1096 defines as: to come into being, to happen, to become, to come to pass, e.t.c.

It is clear that Jesus was saying that ". . .before this generation passes away, these things would have happened."

Did John see them happen? No, it was merely revealed. Examine this verse:

"Behold, he cometh with clouds and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."
- Revelation 1:7

This is STILL FUTURISTIC not a fulfillment for God's sake!

A prophecy does not fulfil a prophecy, the prophesied event those!

Jesus is saying "they shall see" (Mark 13:26)

Jesus is telling John again "they shall see" (Revelation 1:7)

How does that fulfil the prophecy Malvis, how

How does that satisfy the introduction of the word "ginomai" stating that "THESE THINGS SHALL COME TO PASS BEFORE THIS GENERATION PASSES AWAY"??!

You don't need Rocket Science to discern something as straight forward as this, even a 5 year old wouldn't have troubles understanding this thing. Why abuse your intelligence just to defend a myth Malvis??!

Sheesh!!!

Out of curiosity, are you a jehovah witness before converting to atheists ?

No. I wasn't.

Even your usage of TENSES here betrays your lack of understanding of what we're talking about.

If you can't understand that you are meant to say

"Out of curiosity, WERE you a jehovah witness before converting to an atheist ?"

instead of:

"Out of curiosity, are you a jehovah witness before converting to atheists ?"

How would you comprehend the diff between "SHALL BE DONE" and "SHALL BE REVEALED"

I mean no disrespect bro but that's exactly what I'm seeing.

What's wrong with Nairaland MODs for God's sake

Seun, Ishilove, Rockstation, Farano, Standd, Obinoscopy, Lalasticlala

I never knew Nairaland was a Religious Forum. The bias and unreasonableness you guys exercise is just too overwhelming. I now know why ManMustWac was treated the way he was.

Everybody on this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/1792791/questions-baffle-me-god

will testify that it was frontpage worthy but due to your Religion-beclouded "professionalism", it was never considered. Yet, it made thousands of views and lots of comments.

Seun, is this how you run this Forum, based on Religious acceptability?

To be honest, I'm quite disappointed.

Ban me if you may, I don't give a hoot anymore. Mtcheww!

What a nice issue you just raised. Seek knowledge and you shall find it.
Other parallel passages to Mark chapter 13 are Matthew chapter 24 and Luke 21:5-36.

Mark 13 and Matthew 16:28 are two different bible passages saying different things as we are going to see.

To understand what Mark 13 is saying, one must pay attention to the early verses of the chapter. Especially verse 1-3.
Jesus Christ stated in verses 1 & 2 that the temple and buildings around it would be destroyed. Then in verse 3, some of the disciples came to Jesus with questions on what He said in verse 2.

Take note of the questions asked:
(i) Tell us when will this things be? (referring to the foretold destruction of Jerusalem)
(ii) what will be the sign of your coming (second coming of Christ)
(iii) what will be the sign of the end of the age.

From the questions the disciples ask, it seems that they reasoned that the destruction of Jerusalem will coincide with the end of the world and the second coming of Christ. But that is not the case as the destruction of Jerusalem and the second coming of Christ are two separate events which were bound to happen at different times.
So, subsequent verses in the chapter are responses to the questions stated above.

You can read Matthew's account which is more comprehensive.

You can also google destruction of Jerusalem to learn more.

Matthew 24:1-3
Then as Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple.
2. And Jesus answered and said to him,"Do you see these great buildings? Assuredly I say to you, Not one stone shall be left upon one another, that shall not be thrown down."
3. Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying,"Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

Matthew 16:28 on the other hand is an entirely different issue talking about the kingdom of Christ.

You can also read this ... www.nairaland.com/2432295/beast-identified

This should address the Matthew 16:28 issue

ayoku777:



Matthew 16v28 -Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom.

Throughout the ministry of Jesus, He preached, "Repent : for the kingdom of God is at hand or near" -(Matthew 4v17, Mark 1v15)

The question then is, If Jesus preached that the kingdom was near, when did the kingdom come?

Daniel 2v44 -And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

In the days of which kings will the kingdom of God be set up? In the days of the kings of the roman empire.

(Note -The roman empire is the fourth kingdom represented with the legs of iron, and feet of iron with clay). Please read the entire chapter of Daniel 2; to see the dream of Nebuchadnezzar and the interpretation of Daniel.

According to the prophecy of Daniel in his interpretation of the dream of Nebuchadnezzer; the kingdom of God will come and be set up when Jesus rose from the dead. Because Jesus was the stone cut out without hands (Daniel 2v34), that struck the feet of the statue; to set up the kingdom of God that later became a great mountain (Daniel 2v35).

So the kingdom of God came and was set up when Jesus died and rose. The kingdom has come since when Jesus rose. Presently it is still being established in the hearts of men; and in the age to come, it will be established in the earth. But it has come.

So the writers of the scripture did not goof, and Jesus did not make an unfulfilled prophecy when He said;

Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom.

Because those who saw Christ in the flesh after His resurrection, in His glorified incorruptible body; actually "saw the Son of man come in His kingdom". Because at the resurrection of Christ was when the kingdom was set up.

And many people were indeed standing there when Jesus was talking who did not die until they had seen Jesus in the flesh after His resurrection, in His glorified incorruptible body.

1Cor 15v5-8 -And He (Jesus) was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

After that, He was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

After that, He was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

Amd last of all He was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Those who had the privilege of seeing the resurrected Christ in the flesh, in His glorified incorruptible body, can be said to have seen the son of man come in His kingdom. Because that was when the kingdom was set up according to Daniel 2


When people don't know how to interprete the scriptures, they say Jesus goofed, or that the writers made a mistake. That's not true. You really do need the Holy Spirit.

God bless.

@Malvisguy212 see what I expected from you >>>

ayoku777:


You know, everytime we say you need the Holy Spirit to understand the bible, athiests and unbelievers always think that is one excuse we christian use to explain away verses we can't rationalize. But it is not! The truth is you honestly do need the Holy Spirit to understand the bible.

Matthew 16v28 -Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom.

Throughout the ministry of Jesus, He preached, "Repent : for the kingdom of God is at hand or near" -(Matthew 4v17, Mark 1v15)

The question then is, If Jesus preached that the kingdom was near, when did the kingdom come?

Daniel 2v44 -And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

In the days of which kings will the kingdom of God be set up? In the days of the kings of the roman empire.

(Note -The roman empire is the fourth kingdom represented with the legs of iron, and feet of iron with clay). Please read the entire chapter of Daniel 2; to see the dream of Nebuchadnezzar and the interpretation of Daniel.

According to the prophecy of Daniel in his interpretation of the dream of Nebuchadnezzer; the kingdom of God will come and be set up when Jesus rose from the dead. Because Jesus was the stone cut out without hands (Daniel 2v34), that struck the feet of the statue; to set up the kingdom of God that later became a great mountain (Daniel 2v35).

So the kingdom of God came and was set up when Jesus died and rose. The kingdom has come since when Jesus rose. Presently it is still being established in the hearts of men; and in the age to come, it will be established in the earth. But it has come.

So the writers of the scripture did not goof, and Jesus did not make an unfulfilled prophecy when He said;

Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom.

Because those who saw Christ in the flesh after His resurrection, in His glorified incorruptible body; actually "saw the Son of man come in His kingdom". Because at the resurrection of Christ was when the kingdom was set up.

And many people were indeed standing there when Jesus was talking who did not die until they had seen Jesus in the flesh after His resurrection, in His glorified incorruptible body.

1Cor 15v5-8 -And He (Jesus) was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

After that, He was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

After that, He was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

Amd last of all He was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Those who had the privilege of seeing the resurrected Christ in the flesh, in His glorified incorruptible body, can be said to have seen the son of man come in His kingdom. Because that was when the kingdom was set up according to Daniel 2

The coming of Christ that will be announced with a shout, the voice of the archangel and the trump of God; is actually when the kingdom will be phyically established on the earth and Jesus will be bodily enthroned on the earth. But that is not when the kingdom came, the kingdom came at His resurrection.

When people don't know how to interprete the scriptures, they say Jesus goofed, or that the writers made a mistake. That's not true. You really do need the Holy Spirit.

God bless.

Now, what is the Kingdom if I may ask?

Of course, let's assume Mark 13:5-26 does not exist for the above any sense, so for the sake of dialogue, I'll take that assumption.

What was established at Jesus' resurrection? A Kingdom, or just a Redemption

Actually, by dying, Jesus's death and resurrection [as the Bible puts it] acted as:

1.) Proof of His [supposed] divinity

2.) Ransom for all men

3.) Document of Salvation, and

4.) Doorway to Adoption.

The Kingdom of God was not Established on earth at the resurrection but [will be] established at the blasting of the trumpet by the Seventh Angel. I quote:

"And the Seventh Angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven saying, the Kingdoms of the world are become the Kingdoms of the Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever."
- Revelation 11:15

this is the attaining and establishment of the Kingdom and the coming of Jesus in the latter chapter (chapter 19) is the "coming of the Son of man in his Kingdom" not the resurrection.

So, even while ignoring Mark 13:5-26, the house of dominos still falls flat.

Reiyvinn:
Being a Christian is really one hell of a job.

Matthew 16:28 which states:

"Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here that will not taste death at all until they see the Son of man coming in His Kingdom."
(also found in Mark 9:1; Luke 9:27)

Op this is your answer

ayoku777:



Matthew 16v28 -Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom.

Throughout the ministry of Jesus, He preached, "Repent : for the kingdom of God is at hand or near" -(Matthew 4v17, Mark 1v15)

The question then is, If Jesus preached that the kingdom was near, when did the kingdom come?

Daniel 2v44 -And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

In the days of which kings will the kingdom of God be set up? In the days of the kings of the roman empire.

(Note -The roman empire is the fourth kingdom represented with the legs of iron, and feet of iron with clay). Please read the entire chapter of Daniel 2; to see the dream of Nebuchadnezzar and the interpretation of Daniel.

According to the prophecy of Daniel in his interpretation of the dream of Nebuchadnezzer; the kingdom of God will come and be set up when Jesus rose from the dead. Because Jesus was the stone cut out without hands (Daniel 2v34), that struck the feet of the statue; to set up the kingdom of God that later became a great mountain (Daniel 2v35).

So the kingdom of God came and was set up when Jesus died and rose. The kingdom has come since when Jesus rose. Presently it is still being established in the hearts of men; and in the age to come, it will be established in the earth. But it has come.

So the writers of the scripture did not goof, and Jesus did not make an unfulfilled prophecy when He said;

Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom.

Because those who saw Christ in the flesh after His resurrection, in His glorified incorruptible body; actually "saw the Son of man come in His kingdom". Because at the resurrection of Christ was when the kingdom was set up.

And many people were indeed standing there when Jesus was talking who did not die until they had seen Jesus in the flesh after His resurrection, in His glorified incorruptible body.

1Cor 15v5-8 -And He (Jesus) was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

After that, He was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

After that, He was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

And last of all He was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Those who had the privilege of seeing the resurrected Christ in the flesh, in His glorified incorruptible body, can be said to have seen the son of man come in His kingdom. Because that was when the kingdom was set up according to Daniel 2

The coming of Christ that will be announced with a shout, the voice of the archangel and the trump of God; is actually when the kingdom will be phyically established on the earth and Jesus will be bodily enthroned on the earth. But that is not when the kingdom came, the kingdom came at His resurrection.



God bless.

Thanks for the enlightenment,I did learn something new

lampardizik:




Op this is your answer









Thanks for the enlightenment,I did learn something new

Dude, don't be in a haste. Read what I wrote here in response: https://www.nairaland.com/2462163/second-coming-failed-prophecy#36080894

Reiyvinn:


Dude, don't be in a haste. Read what I wrote here in response: https://www.nairaland.com/2462163/second-coming-failed-prophecy#36080894

If He wasn't going to establish a Kingdom why tell Peter "upon this rock will I build my church and the gate of hell shall not prevail over it"?

The Church,which is the body of Christ is the 'Kingdom of Heaven' that both John the Baptist and Jesus Himself preached and that Kingdom is here on the earth. The second coming of Christ will bring the Kingdom of God with God as the Ruler of it,so that brother was right...

lampardizik:



If He wasn't going to establish a Kingdom why tell Peter "upon this rock will I build my church and the gate of hell shall not prevail over it"?

The Church,which is the body of Christ is the 'Kingdom of Heaven' that both John the Baptist and Jesus Himself preached and that Kingdom is here on the earth. The second coming of Christ will bring the Kingdom of God with God as the Ruler of it,so that brother was right...

*chuckles* ne kwa omuaka, these people wanna take me back to my Bible Exposition days.

Alright, let me give you an exegesis of the Kingdom, according to the Bible.

What is a Kingdom?

In the Greek New Testament, the word translated as "Kingdom" is "Basileia" which, according to Strong's Concordance #932 means:

"the realm in which a king sovereignly rules"

_________________________

What is a Church?

In the Greek NT, the word translated as "Church" is "Ekklésia" which, according to Strong's Concordance #1577, means:

"a Congregation or an Assembly"

and on philosophical terms, a Christian breaks the word down "ek" (out of) and "klésia" (called) and thus defines it as:

"Those called by Christ out of the World"

_________________________

Now, look at the two:

* Kingdom of God

* Church of God

Are they the same?
Is the Church of God the Establishment of the Kingdom of God??

Hell no.

While praying the Lord's prayer, Jesus said two things:

* Thy Kingdom come

* Let your will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

What is this will?

In the Bible, heaven is a realm in which God sovereignly rules without rival.
That's his Kingdom.

But Earth is not yet a part of that Kingdom.

The Bible states that the Devil is the Ruler and God of this World (John 12:31; 2 Corinthians 4:4)

and according to the same Bible, you cannot have two masters/rulers (Matthew 6:24)

Therefore, the World is not the Kingdom of God at the moment but the Kingdom of Satan. (according to the Bible).

The Church is the Infilteration of God's Kingdom into Satan's Domain in an attempt to grow by converting members/citizens of that Domain.

When the Number grows, the Son of man will come and battle the ruler of that domain, destroy the remnants of its citizens and make Earth the Kingdom of God. That is when the will in heaven is done on earth.

Jesus' death and resurrection was the birth of a new people (Sons) who will infilterate that Domain until he comes ("Occupy till I come" - Luke 19:13)

and the Kingdom attained at the defeat of the Devil

HOWEVER,
Jesus promised that the Son of man will come in his Kingdom before that generation passes away and that some of them would see it in their lifetime.

Well, did they??

No.

It was a failed prophecy my dear.

But now I have one problem.

The Holy Spirit is telling Ayoku777 that the Kingdom is already here and was established at the resurrection of Jesus (i.e the Son came in his Kingdom)

The same Holy Spirit is telling Malvisguy212 that Jesus was talking about being revealed to John before the end of the century.

Is this the same Holy Spirit you tell Atheists, Freethinkers, Muslims, Hindus, e.t.c to turn to whenever they don't "understand" certain Bible teachings

A Holy Spirit that appears confused as this won't teach me any meaningful thing, unless of course, these niggas are just conjuring up interpretations from a default, phantasmagoric Christian mind.

Cheers.

Reiyvinn, are we settled with the second coming of Christ issue? Before we delve into another issue of Kingdom of God and the Church?

Anyway, you can go through this:


The Kingdom and the Church

Because the word "church" and the word "kingdom" do not mean the same it does not necessarily follow that they are not the same thing. Words may signify different meanings yet refer to the same institution. The words "church" and "body" have different meanings, yet the church is called "the body" of Christ (Ephesians 1:22). The church is also called the "house of God" (I Timothy 3:15), a "temple" (I Corinthians 3:17), "building" (Ephesians 2:21), and "household" (Ephesians 2:19). These various terms emphasize different features of the church -- its family, worship, fellowship features, etc. Likewise when the church is called a kingdom its governmental feature is brought into prominence.

When the church and kingdom are studied they are found to agree in the following particulars: 1) The source of authority or the Head, 2) the laws, 3) the subjects, and 4) the territory. As observed above each of these is an essential element to the kingdom's existence. It can also be seen that the church has these same essential points.

A study of the above passages reveals that the church and the kingdom are identical in the chief executive, His laws, His subjects, and His territory or realm of influence. It is impossible for one to be in the kingdom and not be in the church and equally impossible for one to be in the church and out of the kingdom. Members of the church are citizens of the kingdom and vice versa. Christ does not have one institution on earth called the "kingdom" and another called the "church." The law of admission into both is the same and the laws governing conduct of subjects are identical. Both are confined to earth while their chief executive is in heaven and the heart of the subject is the realm of influence in this world.

Further identity of the church and kingdom as one and the same is revealed in Matthew 16:18,19 where the Lord declares, "I will build My church" and said to Peter, "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven." In one breath He calls it "My church" and in the next "the kingdom of heaven."

Confine the reign of Christ to the abode of men and it is impossible to distinguish between the kingdom of Christ and the church of Christ except as to the feature emphasized in each term. To further emphasize this point the duration of both may be considered. So far as the writer knows, none argues that the church will continue beyond the second coming of Christ and judgment, for men will cease to be "called out" from the world "by the gospel" with that event (II Thessalonians 1:7-10), but at that point shall also come Christ's delivering up of the kingdom to God the Father (I Corinthians 15:24-26); thus the church ceases on this earth at the same time the kingdom comes to an end on this earth.

It is objected that Peter speaks of "the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" (II Peter 1:11). True enough, but that is not the "kingdom" under consideration here for the context shows that kingdom is one that shall be entered as a result of adding the so-called "Christian graces" (II Peter 1:3-10). That kingdom will not have the same laws nor the same territory nor men in the flesh as subjects, nor will Christ reign in that kingdom in the same relationship to the Father as He reigns now (I Corinthians 15:24-26).



http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/ChurchIsTheKingdom.html

The testimonies of Peter and John (James was killed by Herod Acts 12 hence he wrote no epistles) below further helps us to understand what the reference of Matthew 16:28 was, inter alia, the revelation on the Mount of Transfiguration. The views of others referring to Christ's resurrection, Daniel's prophecy and the book of Revelations are also correct. The Holy Spirit did not come to make us a one-man knowledge dispensing squad; the Church is the Body with each member depending on the other members and gaining therefrom to the degree to which the latter depends on the Holy Spirit. Hence, It will be wrong to expect only one answer to be correct. In fact, this is why we have the four Gospels! Not One.

2 Peter 1:16-18

16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

1 John 1:1-2
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (for the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)