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How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? - Crime (7) - Nairaland

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Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by otiigba1(m): 8:46am On Aug 02, 2015
AllNaijaBlogger:



angry angry angry

Why is it that every post of yours just annoys me?

Why are you just a cynical toad? A pessimist.

Negro, you aren't the only one that lives/has lived in Europe.

The rape of minors is a relatively rare occurrence in strong European countries. This is different in the USA, where pedophiles are caught every other day. what is the difference? Both countries have strong police force and laws. The difference is awareness, education and attitude. There are far more functional illiterates in the USA than any European country.


Now, the EU didnt get to where it was in one day. The foundations have to be laid first.

Nigeria is changing. Did anyone believe that Lagos roads could get better before Fashola? Did anyone think Nepa could get better before Buhari?


There is always room for change.

=================================================


What you are misunderstanding here is the fact that I was discussing how to reduce rape of minors. It cant be stopped but it can be reduced.

Awareness alone can reduce at least 5% of rapes and that 5% represents many people's daughters- it is still something.

Do you know how many rapes could have been avoided if parents were more vigilant?
Do you know how many rapes could have been avoided if youths (15-22) were more vigilant the people around their younger siblings?
Do you know how many rapes could have been avoided if many iliterate villagers were educated about underage sex and its problems?


My aunt works for an NGO that provides condoms to villagers and lecture about sexual health. I can claim that my village has very few cases of abortion and teen pregnancy because of her service.

How did the NGO get to my village? Because a simple, caring man alerted them to problems in the rural area and told them that their money will be well spent helping the poor villagers. No govt money needed. NGO.

Imagine if lectures on rape and pedophilia are given in addition to the sexual health lectures that the villagers receive.


Guy. Your mentality is that of those "innit Nigerians" who praise Europe and fold their arms whenever a Nigerian problem is brought up.


Yes our laws are bad. Our police is corrupt. Our government is corrupt. That doesn't stop people from doing something.







Brilliantly put! this is, if not the most sensible comment on here *applauds*
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 9:04am On Aug 02, 2015
AreaFada2:
Well, the offence is way too serious for mobile courts in 9ja setting. It needs thorough investigation to avoid miscarriage of justice as some severe cases will attract life imprisonment. More magistrates can be trained to handle them swiftly and sentencing can be referred to high courts if possible. Just to ensure proper justice.
Exactly what I wanted to hear - 9ja setting.... It needs to be adjusted If we really mean the business of razing down crime. I mean what else is needed as a proof for someone caught pants down n forcing himself on a minor?
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by alphalpha(m): 9:04am On Aug 02, 2015
gabbytabby:


Toddlers and 3 year old not decent there in lies the thought process. Op you not looking at it from the right angle but indirectly justifying rape.



OP was being sarcastic when
Freemanan suggested decent dressing.
Both of them were right and wrong
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 9:11am On Aug 02, 2015
I slept off yesterday while typing a comment embarassed

1 Like

Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 9:17am On Aug 02, 2015
SAMBARRY:
lame over used line. Even the ones that wear overall curtains that they call iya pudah are raped
The point is what is the ratio....maybe 2:10, what are u gonna say to that?
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by GentleToks(m): 9:22am On Aug 02, 2015
raayah:


In the U.S most convicted sex offenders are banned from varios places. They can hardly get a job, their names and faces are splattered everywhere. They can never live a normal live. This is why they kill their victims because they know that the consequences of rape is bad.

However, they still get caught and justice is served in most cases.

The sexual assault cases in Nigeria are worse than U.S. The only reason why you think otherwise, is because the u.s media highly publicizes the crimes. In Nigeria, there are thousands of rapists walking the street and living a normal life. Some people even brag about it.

We even have some video proof of sexual assault cases in Nigeria. Yet Nothing is done.

This is the problem. You and I have to so something. Let us make noise and let people know there will be strict and enforced punishments for rape.

It does not seem like a big deal to you because you have never experienced it.

If your 2-year old son is raped , come back and tell me that Life in prison is not necessary and then I will believe you.



Addressing the last paragraph of your submission, you seemed to have completely misconstrued the content or theme of my write up. What i mean is that we should do something different from what US is doing in term of justice cos US govt has failed in addressing the same situation.

Realistically and going by what i have seen in Nigeria and US personally, crimes in US is completely off the roof compare to Nigeria. The rate at which people are raped and killed on daily basis in US is unheard of; even grandma are not spared in US.

I am not denying the fact there are many rape cases in Nigeria but the good thing about it in Nigeria is that the victims are spared to live cos the culprit probably knows that he would not get caught However, I don't pray for this to happen to my 5 yrs old daughter but it's better to have a living daughter than to have a dead daughter; her dreams in life is gone forever. The parents of those victims in US would have preferred to have their children alive instead of their dead bodies if you ask them.

In conclusion, America govt has listed the names of sex offenders on their national data and sent thousands of these convicted US citizens to US prisons over the cases of rape but the question is this, has the situation change in US? no my brother. And that is why i suggested that whoever is caught and convicted in Nigeria should be castrated instead of this prison journey....
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 9:26am On Aug 02, 2015
EyeofanEagle:
3 things I'm working on

(1)PSAs in various languages

(2)Helplines

(3)Training for parents,school counselors,pastors,law enforcement,doctors and nurses,professionals working with kids,day care staff e t c

I wish to work with you.

1 Like

Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by otiigba1(m): 9:30am On Aug 02, 2015
standd:
I slept off yesterday while typing a comment embarassed
no blame on your part, who wouldn't sleep off? After opening this can of worm ( paedophilia) grin grin

Its not funny angry i was almost a victim meself, i was just 6 years old, and this is the first time i am actually making it know to any one (you) i could not tell my parents. They would have killed me, the guy was a family friend

The insinuation on how people are dressed/what the were wearing is totally irrelevant

lastly i still remember it every day of my life it was horrible embarassed i was only 6 year old angry i applaud you for your effort in bringing this issue to light, please do not be discouraged, it only takes one step to begin, even if its only one 6 years old will be saved. It will be worthwhile

3 Likes 1 Share

Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by otiigba1(m): 9:45am On Aug 02, 2015
Freemanan:


What I was trying to tell Standd... But them say my mouth dey smell.
look! No one is saying that your mouth dey smell grin its just that this bastards also rape people covered head to toe.

there was a case recently over here, the rapist specialised in raping only women wearing Hijabs, now how do you explain that? Am sure you would accept that wearing a hijab is no way near INDECENT dressing

2 Likes

Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 9:45am On Aug 02, 2015
Sabrwahaqqo:

If you are really concerned and passionate about the voiceless masses like you have said, I think the best you can do is to flag off an NGO that will stand up for the right of the oppressed.
OR
Pick a form come 2019 and run for a political office, the upper arm of the legislature will do. When you get there, you know what to do - you sponsor a bill that any man convicted of rape should be hanged by his balls or better still very hot metal rod be inserted into his banging pipe.
It's that simple

You are right, I know what to do, it will take time but I will get there.
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by SAMBARRY: 9:46am On Aug 02, 2015
Sabrwahaqqo:

The point is what is the ratio....maybe 2:10, what are u gonna say to that?
keep using dressing to cover up rape . the old women constantly raped in enugu nko? Women in their 70s and 80s. I guess they were raped because they were flaunting too much skin

2 Likes

Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by AreaFada2: 9:47am On Aug 02, 2015
Sabrwahaqqo:

Exactly what I wanted to hear - 9ja setting.... It needs to be adjusted If we really mean the business of razing down crime. I mean what else is needed as a proof for someone caught pants down n forcing himself on a minor?
It can still be attempt to sodomise a child or actual sodomy of one. Medical checks and DNA semen test could be needed. Also whether child has been molested by same man or anyone else b4. Then the man's mental health status and possible previous crimes. A lot to investigate.
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by alphalpha(m): 9:49am On Aug 02, 2015
standd:
I slept off yesterday while typing a comment embarassed

grin grin grin

Ekaro
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by sosodevf(m): 9:54am On Aug 02, 2015
cococandy:


undecided read the link I just posted and the many others like it (e.g the one yester where the man blamed the 9 year old for seducing him) and others too where little kids are being molested then you won't tackle the problem from the "root" which in your wisdom is female indecency. WTH is wrong with you people?
How about the root that includes the depravity of the rapists?

Give the guy some credit, that's his opinion. Let's have others n see how we can bring all together naw .
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by otiigba1(m): 9:58am On Aug 02, 2015
standd:


You are right, I know what to do, it will take time but I will get there.

please! Please! Please! Do not stop making noise about this issues, its way overdue, it won't be easy but do every thing within your power

Awareness is paramount to this ugly issue parents need to be aware, children mostly, churches, mosques, schools, loud speakers in communities make people aware

Victims should also speak out, and also be listened to and not shouted down or stigmatised, same way the ebola virus was gotten rid of.

If only there are about 100 more people like you, again i applaud your courage.

1 Like

Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 9:59am On Aug 02, 2015
SAMBARRY:
keep using dressing to cover up rape . the old women constantly raped in enugu nko? Women in their 70s and 80s. I guess they were raped because they were flaunting too much skin
Babes, nobody is trying to justify rape here, A rapist is a madman no doubt.... The msg is for the vulnerable; how can she protect herself from molestations,how does she reduce the risk af being attacked by the sick in the head alpha positive, how wouldn't she be mistaken for one cheap LovePeddler'ol. That's what that advice was all about. Any question?
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 10:04am On Aug 02, 2015
otiigba1:
no blame on your part, who wouldn't sleep off? After opening this can of worm ( paedophilia) grin grin

Its not funny angry i was almost a victim meself, i was just 6 years old, and this is the first time i am actually making it know to any one (you) i could not tell my parents. They would have killed me, the guy was a family friend

The insinuation on how people are dressed/what the were wearing is totally irrelevant

lastly i still remember it every day of my life it was horrible embarassed i was only 6 year old angry i applaud you for your effort in bringing this issue to light, please do not be discouraged, it only takes one step to begin, even if its only one 6 years old will be saved. It will be worthwhile


Really sorry about your experience. I know that parents needs to be sensitized on how to care and watch out for their children. Most people shy away from discussing $ex with their children especially in the rural settings so I guess that's another aspect to tackle.
Thanks for sharing. And please watch out for little kids in your vicinity too.

1 Like

Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 10:07am On Aug 02, 2015
Sabrwahaqqo:

Babes, nobody is trying to justify rape here, A rapist is a madman no doubt.... The msg is for the vulnerable; how can she protect herself from molestations,how does she reduce the risk af being attacked by the sick in the head alpha positive, how wouldn't she be mistaken for one cheap LovePeddler'ol. That's what that advice was all about. Any question?

Guess you are addressing grown ladies who walk around half-unclad.
But I beg you, what of the little kids, boys and girls in the neighbourhood that paedophiles have been fiddling with? Who will reach out to them? You are a man, so can you please suggest ways to effectively curb this rot in our society?
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 10:10am On Aug 02, 2015
AreaFada2:
It can still be attempt to sodomise a child or actual sodomy of one. Medical checks and DNA semen test could be needed. Also whether child has been molested by same man or anyone else b4. Then the man's mental health status and possible previous crimes. A lot to investigate.
Lol. You don't seem to understand my stand. It is that the law of the land is way too lenient! Yeah, some other crimes like theft, murder etal needs meticulous handling , but this? NO!.... Someone that's attempting to take advantage of a minor doesn't have to be taken to d psychiatrist, its like saying you want a Vet. Doctor to heal a dead fowl.
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 10:13am On Aug 02, 2015
SAMBARRY:
keep using dressing to cover up rape . the old women constantly raped in enugu nko? Women in their 70s and 80s. I guess they were raped because they were flaunting too much skin

Sambarry, do you live in Nigeria? In your opinion, what is the easiest, fastest and most effective way to curb sexual offences?
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by akigbemaru: 10:15am On Aug 02, 2015
how to curb sexual offences.
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 10:21am On Aug 02, 2015
otiigba1:
please! Please! Please! Do not stop making noise about this issues, its way overdue, it won't be easy but do every thing within your power

Awareness is paramount to this ugly issue parents need to be aware, children mostly, churches, mosques, schools, loud speakers in communities make people aware

Victims should also speak out, and also be listened to and not shouted down or stigmatised, same way the ebola virus was gotten rid of.

If only there are about 100 more people like you, again i applaud your courage.

It is not about me, but about me and you and everyone reading this.
The men and women who sexually abuse others esp children should desist and have a change of heart
Adults/Parents should be vigilant and begin to talk to their children more.

Young people should watch out for little children around them, let's try and discourage others who love to touch and pet children in the wrong places( while pretending to play with them)

If you know someone around you who is a rapist, pls call one of the numbers listed in the first page of thread and report or report to decent elders around you( you can do this discretely)

We can fight this evil together, all we need to do is to be vigilant and to act as good examples, whilst directly or indirectly fighting for the rights of our women and children.

1 Like

Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 10:35am On Aug 02, 2015
Freemanan:


What I was trying to tell Standd... But them say my mouth dey smell.

No one said your mouth oozes oh.. People just pointed out to you that indecency is just a fraction of the problem here. Ladies who dress indecently deserved to be raped? Is that what you think? Do you honestly feel that if all ladies begin to dress decently, rape would stop? If that is the case, how do we dress our little kids and toddlers who get molested? How? The little boys and old women too?
How do we stop these rapists from thinking that women/girls/children are sexual objects that should be abused and defiled?

Freemanan, what can you do in your immediate environment to sensitize people about the stigma and effects of rape. To educate young ladies on decent dressing, to watch out for little kids and keep them out of harms way.

So, what are you willing to do? Or what do you think can be done?

1 Like

Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 11:07am On Aug 02, 2015
A sexual offender's desire to prey on a victim doesn't just occur in an instant. It's something that is developed as a result of certain factors that have been in play, especially in the formative stages of that individual.

Every sexual offender has a beginning. There were factors that led to him going on to commit such sexual crimes.
And I am really interested in these factors and I believe when we know and understand these factors, we can deal with problem at the root stage.

I like to classify sexual offenders under three categories.

1)You have those that act or commit crimes out of hunger for sex or due to the fact that they are being deprived of sex.
70% of Rapists in Nigeria fall into this category and most times, they commit these offenses just once or twice before they are caught.

2) You have those that commit these offenses out of impulse and need
To them it's has become a habit. Probably they did it the first time and it worked out and they just constantly find themselves doing it again.
For them it's easier than having to wait for permission or having to pay for sex.

3) This is a category that most Nigerians tend not to pay cognizance to.
This class involves those sexual offender that commit these crimes for PLEASURE. Because committing these crimes excite them. Their sexual constructionn have been channeled to associate violence and pleasure.
To them it isn't even a crime, it's more or less a fantasy.
It's their fantasy. It's what their body craves.
Raping, humiliating, abusing, causing pain or even killing their victims is what gives them the highest form of sexual gratification there is.
And most times their means for sexual gratification is termed as weiror abnormal
Sexual sadists, necrophiles, sado-masochists, pedophiles and erotophonophiles fall into this category.


***********
The family as we all know is the center of development as far as a child is concerned.. It's were a child's primary characters are developed. It houses a child's formative years.
It's where a child is groomed and it's were a child learns to perceive the world in a certain way

The family has a major role to play in the formation of every sexual offender. Especially the violent ones.

Every child is born with a distinctive personality and psychological make up.
When a child grows under a certain family environment, that environments have a way of acting on these psychological make up and personality of that child and in turn translating it into something different and most times, dangerous.

I am a male, so I will use a male child as an example.

When a "psychologically and emotionally" stable male child approaches puberty, he begins to develop sexual feelings for the opposite sex. All these feelings involve morally acceptable sexual behavior. Behaviors that are in the classed under the spectrum of normal.

But if something happens along the way, between infant hood and puberty or adolescence, this could have a drastic effect on that child. He could perceive things a whole lot differently.

Now what are those thing that could happen along the way that could change a normal child into a monster. These are the factors I would like to elaborate on.

One important factor that plays a crucial role in the lives of potential sexual offenders is ABUSE
And like I always do, I will divide Abuse into different classes.

First of all, you should also understand that there is the abuse inflicted on a child and the abuse witnessed but these two forms of abuse affects him differently.

Abuse inflicted on a child can also be divided into three classes
1) Physical Abuse
2) Psychological Abuse.
3)Sexual Abuse

I am not going to go into all these forms of abuse but one thing is certain, most sexual offenders suffer one or more of these forms of abuse while growing up and it affects them psychologically and tunes their minds to think and perceive things in a certain way.

I am not saying that everyone who suffered one of these forms of abuse, grows to be a sexual offender, No, but most sexual offenders suffer from these forms of abuse.

But I am more interested in the "Abuse Witnessed" and I will throw light on that.

Children raised in abusive homes have a higher probability of becoming sexual offenders. Especially sexually abusive homes.

If a child grows up in a home where his mum is always abused by his dad, either physically, sexually or emotionally, he develops the wrong mindset as to what women are and the role they serve, especially to men.

He begins to view women as objects, as possessions and as less of the humans they are.
He begins to see women as lesser beings than himself that he can manipulate and use.
And as he grows, that mindset grows with him. And unconsciously, the desire to act out those scenes he had seen on another woman would be developed.


Another factor is exposure to this abuse, through the media.

The rate at which children and teenagers are being exposed to violent sexual content these days is alarming.
I wish most of you had an idea of what teenagers these day have access to. Especially on the internet and on paper.

Exposure to graphic sexually explicit content has a way of altering the minds of kids at a young age.

When a child is exposed to such sexual content at a young age, even at teenage age, they experience an unconscious mental shift in their perception of what sex should be like and how it should be experienced.

In addition to all this, i also believe if a child isn't shown enough love, attention and care while growing up, especially on the part of parents or guardians, it could lead to that child not being able to form close relationships and personal attachments with others, and as the individual grows, he finds it hard to bond with people around and this could lead to isolation. and in loneliness and isolation from others, certain thoughts could develop in the mind of that individual.

Because the person finds it hard to form or participate in an active relationship with the opposite sex, which could also be a sexual one, he sees these forms of sexual offenses as his only means of obtaining sexual gratification.( Although this normally applies to the third category of sexual offenders I stated)

So in this isolation and most times anger, he imagines these crimes( which are often violent) over and over again until it begins to become a fantasy. And one thing about fantasies is that it can never be reached and it keeps evolving over time.
So because of this, he would have to repeat these crimes over again so he can attain that level of gratification he imagines in his fantasies.

Such a sexual offender doesn't need to see a girl dress indecently before he decides to prey on her. He doesn't need to see her expose some parts of her body before the trigger to abuse her is ignited.

These kind of offenders already have a particular type of victim that meets their fantasies.
Even if she wears mary amaka clothes, he will still attack her.

So the only way to curb this kind is to deal with the issue is from his formative stages.
And since one can't point out a child who is going to be a violent sexual offender when he grows up, the best is for parents and guardians to avoid the allowing the child to grow under such environments and conditions as I mentioned above.

*********
NB: These factors I listed aren't just the only factors that can lead to the formation of a sexual offender, but they are the major ones.
And if parents can tackle them, it would go a long way in curbing these sexual crimes that might occur in the future.

Cc
Standd

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Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 11:15am On Aug 02, 2015
standd:


No one said your mouth oozes oh.. People just pointed out to you that indecency is just a fraction of the problem here. Ladies who dress indecently deserved to be raped? Is that what you think? Do you honestly feel that if all ladies begin to dress decently, rape would stop? If that is the case, how do we dress our little kids and toddlers who get molested? How? The little boys and old women too?
How do we stop these rapists from thinking that women/girls/children are sexual objects that should be abused and defiled?

Freemanan, what can you do in your immediate environment to sensitize people about the stigma and effects of rape. To educate young ladies on decent dressing, to watch out for little kids and keep them out of harms way.

So, what are you willing to do? Or what do you think can be done?
To be realistic, nothing.


But the government could bring in a force against this and a more offensive approach to the offenders. Children should be given proper education on this topic by parents or guardian.
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 11:19am On Aug 02, 2015
otiigba1:
look! No one is saying that your mouth dey smell grin its just that this bastards also rape people covered head to toe.

there was a case recently over here, the rapist specialised in raping only women wearing Hijabs, now how do you explain that? Am sure you would accept that wearing a hijab is no way near INDECENT dressing
Now I get a clearer picture sir
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 11:21am On Aug 02, 2015
alphalpha:


OP was being sarcastic when Freemanan suggested decent dressing. Both of them were right and wrong
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by otiigba1(m): 11:28am On Aug 02, 2015
Freemanan:

Now I get a clearer picture sir
Am Glad you do grin and also what does it make us men if we can not resist or control our sexual urges just because women walks past us indecently dressed? DOGS? grin
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by AreaFada2: 11:30am On Aug 02, 2015
Sabrwahaqqo:

Lol. You don't seem to understand my stand. It is that the law of the land is way too lenient! Yeah, some other crimes like theft, murder etal needs meticulous handling , but this? NO!.... Someone that's attempting to take advantage of a minor doesn't have to be taken to d psychiatrist, its like saying you want a Vet. Doctor to heal a dead fowl.

He could be a serial sexual predator.

Suppose he spends 5 years in jail and is released to continue where he stopped? Who knows if he would have killed the child after to cover his tracks? Or is there a ring of abusers that he is a part of?

Thorough investigation is always crucial even when it appears glaring.
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 11:37am On Aug 02, 2015
otiigba1:
Am Glad you do grin and also what does it make us men if we can not resist or control our sexual urges just because women walks past us indecently dressed? DOGS? grin
Some men have their body configured in a way that they respond to every thing... You will be shocked at some of the things that arouse them, and they don't care in which shape or size it comes...
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by Nobody: 11:56am On Aug 02, 2015
standd:


Guess you are addressing grown ladies who walk around half-unclad.
But I beg you, what of the little kids, boys and girls in the neighbourhood that paedophiles have been fiddling with? Who will reach out to them? You are a gsgzb
man, so can you please suggest ways to effectively curb this rot in our society?
Come on! Stop talking like these kids don't have parents almost all the rape victims I've heard of of late live wt 'em parents. Prevention is better than cure, let parent take extra care of their wards and pay extra vigilance also.
Let the penalty for anybody either attempting to or is caught in the act of raping esp a minor be subjected to stampede judgment courtesy mobile courts. .. We can start from here.
Its however worthy of note that rape can't be wiped! It has survived generations and civilizations but of course, it can be controlled to the barest minimum.
Re: How Do We Effectively Curb Sexual Offences In Nigeria? by otiigba1(m): 11:58am On Aug 02, 2015
Freemanan:

Some men have their body configured in a way that they respond to every thing... You will be shocked at some of the things that arouse them, and they don't care in which shape or size it comes...
as disgusting and immoral as that sounds, its the sad truth, more reason to do whatever it takes to eradicate the ugly act

For some reason you seem to make more sense now than on your previous posts (sarcasm) grin

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