| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by mapet: 8:16am On Aug 05, 2015 |
Well I can continue to throw more light......... Wale Tinubu is a Lawyer...... Omamofe Boyo is also a lawyer. These guys started running OANDO before turning 30...... laudate:
I hope you know that banking is NOT the same thing as oil and gas, oh! Please stop comparing oranges with apples!  |
| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by mapet: 8:22am On Aug 05, 2015 |
Check your analogy again. Your poser is about someone running gas turbines.......... which is way different, entirely a big shift from running a company. Do you know that in some company, many engineers find it difficult to cross-over to the mainstream business lines and they have their careers peaked at the technical level. Your example of this manager that knows his onions is in the technical field. He may not even be in the Leadership talent pool and may likely not make to even a divisional director....... Kachikwu at the time was a representative of Mobil. His position on PIB then was Mobil's and not his personal views. He was simply the mouth-piece and you should not even bring in that argument at all. The jury is still out on the viability of the proposed PIB (Let's have this discussion on a separate thread, especially on the dilution of the original PIB) laudate:
Bros, the analogies are in perfect tandem with the context, oh!
No one is comparing a GMD to an asset manager or an operations manager. We are comparing knowledge and technical expertise in specific situations. 
Yes, Kachikwu is representing an entity... and my comment stating that he was opposed to PIB, was supported by a publication that quoted him verbatim, and the links to that online source was also given. So would his beliefs change overnight, now that he has suddenly been made GMD?  Unlikely.
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| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by tonychristopher: 8:33am On Aug 05, 2015 |
DUDE WHAT IS ACTUALLY WRONG WITH YOU, DID THESE PEOPLE MAKE YOU THEIR SPOKESMEN, A LOT OF ANIOCHA AND MIND YOU WE HAVE ANIOCHA IN ANAMBRA AND IKWERRE, MIND YOU WE HAVE NKWERRE IN IMO ARE IGBO AND HAVE SAID THEY ARE IGBO AND NON I MEAN NON OF THEIR KINGS HAVE SAID THEY ARE NOT IGBO WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU GUYS, WHY IS IT THAT YOU GUYS ARE ALWAYS SCARED OF ANYTHING IGBO, ARE THEY THESE INTIMIDATING, EVEN ONE USELESS YORUBA PASTOR WAS SAYING HE SAW IGBO MASQURADE CHASING HIM IN DREAMS MEHN UNA DEY TERRIBLE WHY DONT YOU GO THERE AND VISIT INSTEAD OF TALKING NONESENSE HERE, MIND YOU WE HAV E IMMIGRANTS IN DELTA NORTHM, THESE WERE SONS AND CHILDREN OF REFUGEE SEEKING PEOPLE FROM EDO, THESE PEOPLE WERE EITHER EXILED, OSTRACIZED OR EX COMMUNICATED BY THE EDO OBA THEY CAME INTO IGBO LAND WHICH IS PRESENT DAY DELTA AND WERE ASSIMILATED AND IGBONIZED THEY TOOK UP IGBO NAMES AND START SPEAKING IGBO, BUT THEY CAN NEVER BE KINGS, THEY ARE NOT PURE BLOODSM, THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT CLAIM I AM NOT IGBO, I UNDERSTAND THEM BUT MIND YOU THESE DENIALS ARE VERY FEW AND WE ACKNOWLADGE THEIR REFUGEE STATUS AND WE TERM THEM FAKE IGBO governoragweven:
Good! u are more calm now, u dont insult pple " ur education is a waste on u" when discussing especially when u are not 100% correct. its all about perspective and has nofin to do with education, even prof. wole shoyinka will hav is own perspective to this matter which hs nofin to do with his education. Am sure if u were frm Aniocha, ikwere or Ika u will also never accept u are igbo cos non of these pple would accept they are igbos cos they hav diffr in culture and lang even though they share small similarities.
as u rightly said, lets get another gist. |
| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by mapet: 8:46am On Aug 05, 2015 |
laudate:
TOP OIL COMPANIES IN THE WORLD
British Petroleum (BP): BP (also referred to by its former name British Petroleum), is one of the world's six "supermajor" oil and gas companies. It is a British multinational company, headquartered in London, England, whose performance in 2012 made it the world's sixth-largest oil and gas company, the sixth-largest energy company by market capitalization, and the company with the world's fifth-largest revenue (turnover). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BP
BP has a CEO Bob Dudley, who received a BS in chemical engineering from the University of Illinois, where he joined the fraternity Phi Kappa Psi and served as District 3 Archon. He then obtained an Master of International Management, MIM, degree from the Thunderbird School of Global Management and an MBA from Southern Methodist University.
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Statoil ASA, (OSE: STL), is a Norwegian multinational oil and gas company headquartered in Stavanger, Norway. It is a fully integrated petroleum company with operations in thirty-six countries. By revenue, Statoil is ranked by Forbes Magazine (2013) as the world's eleventh largest oil and gas company and the twenty-sixth largest company, regardless of industry, by profit in the world. http://www.statoil.com/en/About/Pages/default.aspx
CEO is Eldar Sætre, President and chief executive officer. He has an MA in business economics from the Norwegian School of Economics and Business Administration (NHH) in Bergen. http://www.statoil.com/en/NewsAndMedia/News/2015/Pages/04Feb_EldarSaetre_CEO.aspx
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Royal Dutch Shell Plc: One of the most respected oil companies in the world, it was created by the merger of Royal Dutch Petroleum and UK-based Shell Transport & Trading. It came second in the Fortune Global 500 2014 list, but it is now the fourth largest company in the world as of 2014, in terms of revenue. Although the company has registered a huge drop in profit by around 40% from the previous year, it is hopeful of improving its operational performance and project delivery. In fact, on April 7, 2015, the company proposed a merger with the British gas producer BG group for $69.7 billion cash and stock. It is interesting to note here that this is the first big acquisition of the oil and gas industry this year, and will make Shell the largest producer of liquefied natural gas in the world. Royal Dutch Shell revenue was equal to 84% of the Netherlands' $555.8 billion GDP at the time in 2013. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Dutch_Shell
CEO is Ben van Beurden is the CEO of Royal Dutch Shell Plc. Van Beurden joined Shell in 1983, after graduating with a Master’s Degree in Chemical Engineering from Delft University of Technology in the Netherlands.
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Exxon is the second largest company in the US as far as revenues go. The world's 5th largest company by revenue, ExxonMobil is also the second largest publicly traded company by market capitalization. The company was ranked No. 6 globally in Forbes Global 2000 list in 2014. However, its revenues have dropped by more than 7 percent from the previous year along with decreased oil production and increasing exploration expenditures. As of 2013, the company had about 71.9 million barrels of natural gas and 13.2 million barrels of liquid proved reserves. Exxon has three divisions: Upstream, Downstream and Chemical with upstream being the biggest of them all. Exxon is also the biggest refiner in the world with a refining capacity of around 5.5 million barrels per day, with Royal Dutch Shell in second place with a refining capacity of around 4.1 million barrels per day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil; http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2015/03/19/the-worlds-biggest-oil-and-gas-companies/3/
CEO is Rex Tillerson, a native of Wichita Falls, Texas, Rex Tillerson earned a bachelor of science degree in civil engineering at the University of Texas at Austin before joining Exxon Company, U.S.A. in 1975 as a production engineer. In 1989, he became general manager of Exxon Company U.S.A.’s central production division, responsible for oil and gas production operations throughout a large portion of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Kansas. Tillerson was named senior vice president of Exxon Mobil Corporation in August 2001, and was elected president of the corporation and member of the board of directors on March 1, 2004. He assumed his current position on January 1, 2006.
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Petrochina: With around half a million employees, Petrochina, the listed arm of state owned China National Petroleum Corp. (CNPC) is easily one of the biggest oil and gas companies in the world. CNPC is the parent of PetroChina, the fourth largest company in the world in terms of revenue as of July 2014. The company operates in four segments: Exploration and Production, Refining and Chemicals, Marketing and Natural Gas and pipeline. It engages in the exploration, development, production and sale of crude oil and natural gas. The company also involves in the refining of crude oil and petroleum products, production and marketing of primary petrochemical products, derivative chemical products and other chemical products; the marketing of refined products and trading business; and the transmission of natural gas, crude oil and refined oil products and the sale of natural gas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PetroChina
CEO is Wang Dongjin is the Vice Chairman and President of the Company and Deputy General Manager of CNPC. Mr. Wang is a professor-level senior engineer and holds a doctorate’s degree. Mr. Wang has nearly 30 years of working experience in China’s oil and gas industry.He was appointed as a Director of the Company in May 2011. he was appointed as the president of the Company in July 2013. Mr. Wang was appointed the Vice Chairman of the Company in May 2014.
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Sinopec : Top Chinese Oil company Sinopec Group also known as China Petroleum & Chemical Corporation, ranked No.3, on Fortune Magazine's published list of the global top 500 companies for 2014, with annual operating revenue of US$457.201 billion. Sinopec Group which owns Addax Petroleum, entered the top ten for the first time in 2010, ranking at No.7, and moved up to No.5 in 2011. Sinopec Group ranked at No.5 and No.4 in 2012 and 2013 respectively. It moved up a rank to replace Royal Dutch Shell as the world's second largest company in oil and gas. It is a Chinese oil and gas company based in Beijing, China. It is listed in Hong Kong and also trades in Shanghai and New York. Sinopec's business includes oil and gas exploration, refining, and marketing; production and sales of petrochemicals, chemical fibers, chemical fertilizers, and other chemical products; storage and pipeline transportation of crude oil and natural gas; import, export and import/export agency business of crude oil, natural gas, refined oil products, petrochemicals, and other chemicals. It made over 455 billion USD in 2014.
CEO is Fu Chengyu, is the current Chairman of China Petroleum and Chemical Corp (Sinopec), the largest Asian refiner. He previously worked at the China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC), which foresaw a five-fold increase in its profits during his presence. He was born in 1951, and is a Chinese citizen of Han ethnicity. He graduated from the Northeastern University (China), receiving a master's degree in petroleum engineering from the University of Southern California, and later studied at the Cheung Kong Graduate School of Business. In December 2014, Chengyu was named among the most influential people in the shipping industry according to Lloyds List. See more at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu_Chengyu____________________________________________________________________________________
Total S.A is a French multinational integrated oil and gas company and one of the six "Supermajor" oil companies in the world. Its businesses cover the entire oil and gas chain, from crude oil and natural gas exploration and production to power generation, transportation, refining, petroleum product marketing, and international crude oil and product trading. Total is also a large-scale chemicals manufacturer. The company has its head office in the Tour Total in La Défense district in Courbevoie, west of Paris. It made over 212 billion US dollars in 2014.
CEO Patrick Pouyanné, Chief Executive Officer - President of the Executive Committee, Total SA: A graduate of École Polytechnique and an Engineer of the French Corps des Mines, Patrick Pouyanné held various positions in the French Industry Ministry and in ministerial offices from 1989 to 1996, including Environment and Industry Technical Advisor to the Prime Minister from 1993 to 1995 and Chief of Staff to the Information Technology and Space Minister from 1995 to 1996. In August 2002, he was named Senior Vice President, Finance, Economics and Information Systems in Exploration & Production. In January 2006, he became Senior Vice President, Strategy, Business Development and R&grin in Exploration & Production. In January 2012, Patrick Pouyanné was appointed President, Refining & Chemicals and member of the Executive Committee. On October 22, 2014, the board of Directors of Total appointed Patrick Pouyanné Chief Executive Officer and President of the Executive Committee.
- See more at: http://www.total.com/en/media/biographies/executive-committee#sthash.j7VtVlgO.dpuf
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Chevron Corporation (NYSE: CVX) is an American multinational energy corporation. One of the successor companies of Standard Oil, it is headquartered in San Ramon, California, and active in more than 180 countries. Chevron is engaged in every aspect of the oil, natural gas, and geothermal energy industries, including hydrocarbon exploration and production; refining, marketing and transport; chemicals manufacturing and sales; and power generation. Chevron is one of the world's largest oil companies; as of 2014, it ranked third in the Fortune 500 list of the top US closely held and public corporations and sixteenth on the Fortune Global 500 list of the top 500 corporations worldwide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron_Corporation
CEO is John S. Watson, Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer. Watson joined Chevron in 1980 as a financial analyst. He earned a bachelor’s degree in agricultural economics from the University of California, Davis, in 1978 and a master’s degree in business administration from the University of Chicago in 1980.
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Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A. (PDVSA - Petroleum of Venezuela) is the Venezuelan state-owned oil and natural gas company. It has activities in exploration, production, refining and exporting oil, as well as exploration and production of natural gas. Since 1st January 1976 with the nationalization of the Venezuelan oil industry, PDVSA has dominated the oil industry of Venezuela, and is the world's fifth largest oil exporter. Oil reserves in Venezuela are the largest in the world, and the state-owned PDVSA provides the government of Venezuela with substantial funding resources. Venezuela has 77.5 billion barrels (1.232×1010 m3) of conventional oil reserves according to PDVSA figures, the largest in the Western Hemisphere and making up approximately half the total. This puts Venezuela as fifth in the world in proven reserves of conventional oil. By also including an estimated 235 billion barrels (3.74×1010 m3) of tar-like extra heavy crude oil in the Orinoco Belt region, Venezuela claims to hold the largest hydrocarbon reserves in the world. Venezuela also has 150 trillion cubic feet (4.2×1012 m3) of natural gas reserves. PDVSA made 128.44 billion US dollars in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_oil_and_gas_companies_by_revenue
CEO is Rafael Darío Ramírez Carreño (born August 4, 1963, in Pampán, Venezuela) is a Venezuelan engineer and politician. He joined the board of Venezuelan state-owned petroleum company PDVSA in 2002 and served as company president from 2004 to 2014. He also served as Venezuela's Minister of Energy from 2002 to 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Ram%C3%ADrez_(Venezuela)
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Saudi Aramco : Is officially the Saudi Arabian Oil Company, most popularly known just as Aramco (formerly Arabian-American Oil Company). It is the Saudi Arabian national petroleum and natural gas company based in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. Saudi Aramco's value has been estimated at anywhere between US$1.25 trillion and US$7 trillion, making it the world's most valuable company.
Saudi Aramco has both the world's largest proven crude oil reserves, at more than 260 billion barrels (4.1×1010 m3),[4] and largest daily oil production. Saudi Aramco owns, operates and develops all energy resources based in Saudi Arabia. According to 2015 Forbes report, Aramco is said to be the world's largest oil and gas company. Saudi Aramco operates the world's largest single hydrocarbon network, the Master Gas System. Its 2013 crude oil production total was 3.4 billion barrels (540,000,000 m3), and it manages over 100 oil and gas fields in Saudi Arabia, including 288.4 trillion standard cubic feet (scf) of natural gas reserves. Aramco operates the Ghawar Field, the world's largest onshore oil field, and the Safaniya Field, the world's largest offshore oil field. See more at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Aramco
CEO is Amin al-Nasser, Chief executive of Saudi Aramco with 33 years' experience at the world's largest energy company. Nasser – who before being named CEO was Aramco’s senior vice president for upstream operations – holds a bachelor's degree in petroleum engineering from King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. He started his career at Aramco in 1982, working as an engineer in the oil-production department, and later held posts in engineering, drilling and reservoir management.
Between March 1991 and May 1997, Nasser held a number of supervisory positions in the engineering and production departments. In 2006, Nasser was named vice president of petroleum engineering and development, before becoming the acting head of exploration and production in August 2007. In January 2008, Nasser was appointed senior vice president of exploration and production. Nasser is a longstanding member of the Society of Petroleum Engineers (SPE), and in early 2008 was named a senior member of SPE’s Advisory Board
See more at: http://english.alarabiya.net/en/perspective/profiles/2015/05/02/Amin-al-Nasser-incoming-CEO-of-oil-giant-Saudi-Aramco.html
As seen above, most of the top largest oil firms in the world with the highest revenues, have an engineer at the helm of affairs. The few that do not have an engineering background, often took over from an engineer who had probably laid the ground work for the growth of the oil firm. Ok! now, this is clearly a subjective use of statistics and those in the know will tell you that your simplitic inference is not detailed enough and not a justification that you can assert. First off!!! the ratio of Engineering disciplined graduates to Non-Engineers in the Oil and Gas industry hypothetically speaking will be like 5:1 or there about......so off a sampling you get the impression that you must be an engineer to be a GMD. But taking a cursory look at those engineer and check their profiles, their job experience and path, you will notice that they would have gone round the value chain to prepare them for leadership. For starters most of these leaders have MBA degrees, a Bridger, then they have had cross-discipline exposures, projects leadership, asset leadership and stuffs to give the potential leader an all encompassing phase. You should also realise that when you get to a level in the organisation, what comes to play is a departure from tactical aspect of the business to strategy. I can't imagine at the C-Level meeting,(using your earlier analogy) discussions talking about water-cut in wells or turbine spares and stuffs......... For me, being an Engineer or not is not what gets you to that position. You could argue on the knowledge and capacity on Engineers that may come in handy when they get to the top.......... Come to think of it, the Father of the industry, RockeFeller was just a gaddem trader.....  |
| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by tonychristopher: 8:46am On Aug 05, 2015 |
Kedu ka isiri malu na abu nwa afor, nsogbu adighi mana uche gi di ya udo di too much inshort udo mala spill over UnknownT:
hmmmm!! So I wu onye nkem? I biakwa na fucck up, dey look my error. If we dey drag politics for beer parlor, anyi anaghi e check English Oga Tony. |
| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by laudate: 11:39am On Aug 05, 2015 |
mapet:
Check your analogy again. Your poser is about someone running gas turbines.......... which is way different, entirely a big shift from running a company. Do you know that in some company, many engineers find it difficult to cross-over to the mainstream business lines and they have their careers peaked at the technical level. Your example of this manager that knows his onions is in the technical field. He may not even be in the Leadership talent pool and may likely not make to even a divisional director.......
Kachikwu at the time was a representative of Mobil. His position on PIB then was Mobil's and not his personal views. He was simply the mouth-piece and you should not even bring in that argument at all. The jury is still out on the viability of the proposed PIB (Let's have this discussion on a separate thread, especially on the dilution of the original PIB) (sigh!) You really need to free your mind! Running a company entails taking a series of decisions along the line, about issues that affect the well-being of that company as well as its daily operations!  Now if you are not knowledgeable about such operations, you would be liable to take the wrong decision if an issue suddenly comes up or take too long in making the right one, as you would have to rely on the expertise of others that are way different from yours! That was what the story about the gas turbines was meant to illustrate. Despite what you think, there are several other engineers that successfully made the transition from pure technical disciplines into the boardroom, as they took business courses along the line and developed a commercial orientation during years spent in different divisions of the company. So they definitely got into the leadership pool. How do you think all those chief executives with engineering backgrounds, got to become MDs of their respective oil and gas companies?? In fact, if you look at the top 26 oil companies in the world by size and revenue, only 4 of them have non-engineers at the helm! What does that tell you? Do you think it is just by chance that those engineers got there? I hope you realise that there are Sales Engineers too, who are just as concerned about the bottom line as accountants!  Kachikwu's position on PIB has been well known over the years, even it has been nurtured by Mobil's stand. Do you suddenly think he would jettison all those beliefs overnight, simply because he has become GMD of NNPC? Think man, think! Is he a chameleon??! Many of these professionals who have worked with multinationals for many years, still bear allegiance to them and their 'old boy network'. Under Diezani, Shell International was given a free hand to do practically what they wanted because of the influence they still had with her. |
| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by laudate: 11:52am On Aug 05, 2015 |
mapet:
Ok! now, this is clearly a subjective use of statistics and those in the know will tell you that your simplitic inference is not detailed enough and not a justification that you can assert. First off!!! the ratio of Engineering disciplined graduates to Non-Engineers in the Oil and Gas industry hypothetically speaking will be like 5:1 or there about......so off a sampling you get the impression that you must be an engineer to be a GMD.
But taking a cursory look at those engineer and check their profiles, their job experience and path, you will notice that they would have gone round the value chain to prepare them for leadership. For starters most of these leaders have MBA degrees, a Bridger, then they have had cross-discipline exposures, projects leadership, asset leadership and stuffs to give the potential leader an all encompassing phase.
You should also realise that when you get to a level in the organisation, what comes to play is a departure from tactical aspect of the business to strategy. I can't imagine at the C-Level meeting,(using your earlier analogy) discussions talking about water-cut in wells or turbine spares and stuffs.........
For me, being an Engineer or not is not what gets you to that position. You could argue on the knowledge and capacity on Engineers that may come in handy when they get to the top..........
Come to think of it, the Father of the industry, RockeFeller was just a gaddem trader..... There is nothing subjective about the use of statistics in my post. Stop reading things that are not there into it.  I am not asserting anything. Am stating facts. Every year, the list of the top 25 - 30 oil and gas companies in terms of revenue, size and oil reserves is published by Forbes, Fortune 500 and other respected industry journals. A list of their ranking is also freely available on Wikipedia. So the companies profiled in my previous post were taken from this list and credit was duly given. All the sources had the names of the chief executives of the oil and gas firms and short profiles on their background can be easily found on the internet. So what was subjective about what I wrote? Yes, these engineers took business-related courses but their background in engineering definitely had a bearing on their performance and helped them to get into the leadership pool as well. It was a major factor. And it is not by accident or coincidence that 21 out of the top 26 chief executives of the world's largest oil and gas companies in the world, are engineers! Facts don't lie. And you have obviously never attended a high-level boardroom meeting or taken minutes at one.  Anything that affects the well being of the company and has the capacity to disrupt its operations, market dominance, financial revenue, sales projections, access to capital, new projects, mergers, acquisitions, alliances, or breach regulatory guidelines etc. is discussed. If the need to purchase or upgrade the operations of a gas turbine that costs millions of dollars to install or repair, is taken to the board for approval, won't it be discussed?? ! Especially if it could affect the operations of the company? |
| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by laudate: 11:56am On Aug 05, 2015 |
governoragweven:
engineer or no engineer, who will work will work. its all about the zeal to bring about change. but this does not deny the fact that an engineer with vast knowledge in "operations" would bring abt change EFFORTLESSLY cause he knws more on how to cub underground operational runs than a lawyer with vast knowledge in legal arm of the industry. They both can cause positive change but the latter may struggle more. vry simple matter! You got that right. |
| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by belloben: 12:09pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
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| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by sirkay147(m): 12:28pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
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| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by mapet: 2:37pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
laudate:
There is nothing subjective about the use of statistics in my post. Stop reading things that are not there into it. I am not asserting anything. Am stating facts.
Every year, the list of the top 25 - 30 oil and gas companies in terms of revenue, size and oil reserves is published by Forbes, Fortune 500 and other respected industry journals. A list of their ranking is also freely available on Wikipedia.
So the companies profiled in my previous post were taken from this list and credit was duly given. All the sources had the names of the chief executives of the oil and gas firms and short profiles on their background can be easily found on the internet. So what was subjective about what I wrote?
1. if justifying your assertion with bit-part stats, skewed to fit your position is not subjective, then..... but let's make this a bi academic then; take the Forbes 500 list, run sensitivities on those samples and tell me Engineering background is the prerequisite of running Oil and Gas companies
2. But you're begging the issue. Your argument is about Engineering background as a requisite for running and Oil and Gas company and even from the sources your reeled out, it shows that's not necessarily the case.
3. We have shown a substantial case of IOCs in Nigeria run by non engineers.
Yes, these engineers took business-related courses but their background in engineering definitely had a bearing on their performance and helped them to get into the leadership pool as well. It was a major factor.
4. Background in Engineering has nothing to do with getting a potential into the leadership talent pool, I'm tempted to believe you know little about how leadership talent pool works. Leadership talent pool is a repository of HIPOs and consist of cross-discipline individuals (Engineers, Accountants, Lawyers, HSE, Geologists, Strategists etc) who are primed for the top. These people got their by their record of performance and not background. Background got them into the system in the first place.
And it is not by accident or coincidence that 21 out of the top 26 chief executives of the world's largest oil and gas companies in the world, are engineers! Facts don't lie.
5. yet it says nothing about the fact that having engineering degree is a prerequisite to heading Oil and Gas companies. It only shows a pattern which can be interpreted in many ways.
And you have obviously never attended a high-level boardroom meeting or taken minutes at one.
6. ....and what is the relevance of this ego trip in our discourse?.....but humor me; how's a high-level boardroom meeting session?
Anything that affects the well being of the company and has the capacity to disrupt its operations, market dominance, financial revenue, sales projections, access to capital, new projects, mergers, acquisitions, alliances, or breach regulatory guidelines etc. is discussed.
7. .... Including individual wells that have water-cut?
If the need to purchase or upgrade the operations of a gas turbine that costs millions of dollars to install or repair, is taken to the board for approval, won't it be discussed?? ! Especially if it could affect the operations of the company?
8. Well it depends on the company you're referencing. I believe what you've painted above is taken care of by a well crafted out work program, that has taken into consideration enough spares. Capital expenditures are well budgeted for. The board is not your day-2-day office and you don't disturb the board with simple details, when you have Senior Management team consisting of (MD, OPM, CFO) whose duty is to take care of such. What the board gets is the summary scorecard presented by the MD |
| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by mapet: 2:56pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
laudate:
(sigh!) You really need to free your mind! Running a company entails taking a series of decisions along the line, about issues that affect the well-being of that company as well as its daily operations!
Now if you are not knowledgeable about such operations, you would be liable to take the wrong decision if an issue suddenly comes up or take too long in making the right one, as you would have to rely on the expertise of others that are way different from yours!
That was what the story about the gas turbines was meant to illustrate.
1. Not having a degree in Engineering does not preclude you from having deep knowledge about your business. That scenario is applicable to that manager, because that his area of operations. If you extrapolate it to the top, what is required is holistic and trust me, leaders are deep.
2. Why do you think Buhari chose Kachikwu, despite having a choice of 4, of which at least 2 were engineers.....
Despite what you think, there are several other engineers that successfully made the transition from pure technical disciplines into the boardroom, as they took business courses along the line and developed a commercial orientation during years spent in different divisions of the company. So they definitely got into the leadership pool. How do you think all those chief executives with engineering backgrounds, got to become MDs of their respective oil and gas companies??
3. First off, I did not say engineers have no commercial apptitude.
4. Any potential primed for leadership will go through the requisite learning and development, both technical and commercial
In fact, if you look at the top 26 oil companies in the world by size and revenue, only 4 of them have non-engineers at the helm! What does that tell you? Do you think it is just by chance that those engineers got there? I hope you realise that there are Sales Engineers too, who are just as concerned about the bottom line as accountants!
5. What it tells me is more of their potential being fulfilled, engineers regardless. The previous and current Shell MDs in Nigeria are not Engineers, what does that tell you?
Kachikwu's position on PIB has been well known over the years, even it has been nurtured by Mobil's stand. Do you suddenly think he would jettison all those beliefs overnight, simply because he has become GMD of NNPC? Think man, think! Is he a chameleon??!
6. Kachikwu's position in that event was Mobil's position. Even if his position is not pro-PIB, it has nothing to do with readiness for the job. The PIB in question is a controversial document that has been watered down. You do not expect private sectors to gobble it up when it doesn't favor them
Many of these professionals who have worked with multinationals for many years, still bear allegiance to them and their 'old boy network'.
7. It's Capitalism Bro. We can hardly do anything about that.....
Under Diezani, Shell International was given a free hand to do practically what they wanted because of the influence they still had with her.
8. ... Trust me, Shell had been doing "practically what they wanted" before Diezani got there...... |
| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by oyatz(m): 3:10pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
dmz1:
he is anioma not Igbo Aniomas have become Igbo and those who wish to be seen as such should be regarded as Igbo and not to be descriminated. |
| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by tonychristopher: 3:37pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
monkey anioma is an acronym not a tribe ewu dmz1:
he is anioma not Igbo |
| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by laudate: 4:34pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
mapet:
laudate::
(sigh!) You really need to free your mind! Running a company entails taking a series of decisions along the line, about issues that affect the well-being of that company as well as its daily operations!
Now if you are not knowledgeable about such operations, you would be liable to take the wrong decision if an issue suddenly comes up or take too long in making the right one, as you would have to rely on the expertise of others that are way different from yours! undecided
That was what the story about the gas turbines was meant to illustrate.
1. Not having a degree in Engineering does not preclude you from having deep knowledge about your business. That scenario is applicable to that manager, because that his area of operations. If you extrapolate it to the top, what is required is holistic and trust me, leaders are deep.
2. Why do you think Buhari chose Kachikwu, despite having a choice of 4, of which at least 2 were engineers..... You simply love arguing blindly. If your business covers the sale of healthcare services, furniture fabrication, hospitality services, fast food restaurants etc, surely you do not need an engineer to run the business and have a deep knowledge about it. But if you are talking about running a firm which is active in every area of the oil and gas industry, including exploration and production, refining, distribution and marketing, petrochemicals, power generation and gas fuels, then as CEO, an engineering background is important to enable you understand every part of the business thoroughly. Leaders are only as good as the knowledge they have, and the way they have been able to deploy such knowledge to impact the bottom line, harness their operations seamlessly and add commercial value to their businesses. So stop saying leaders are deep. There are shallow leaders as well that have cost their companies a fortune and damaged the corporate reputation of their organisations, to boot! Answer this question: Are leaders born or are they made? mapet:
laudate::
Despite what you think, there are several other engineers that successfully made the transition from pure technical disciplines into the boardroom, as they took business courses along the line and developed a commercial orientation during years spent in different divisions of the company. So they definitely got into the leadership pool. How do you think all those chief executives with engineering backgrounds, got to become MDs of their respective oil and gas companies??
3. First off, I did not say engineers have no commercial apptitude.
4. Any potential primed for leadership will go through the requisite learning and development, both technical and commercial Thank God, you have finally agreed that technical knowledge and commercial skill is a prerequisite for potential leaders. Now we can draw a line and move on. mapet:
laudate::
In fact, if you look at the top 26 oil companies in the world by size and revenue, only 4 of them have non-engineers at the helm! What does that tell you? Do you think it is just by chance that those engineers got there? I hope you realise that there are Sales Engineers too, who are just as concerned about the bottom line as accountants!
5. What it tells me is more of their potential being fulfilled, engineers regardless. The previous and current Shell MDs in Nigeria are not Engineers, what does that tell you? Your answer shows that you know very little about how a multinational works! Sunmonu is the MD of Shell Nigeria and not Shell International. He reports to a boss abroad, who is most likely a board member of Shell International. Decisions on the difficult nitty-gritty issues are most likely taken in consultation with his boss. Despite how great a performer he may be, he cannot implement decsions that fall outside the global Shell strategy and operations in Nigeria, even though he is the MD. Before Sunmonu came on board, you need to find out how many of his predecessors had an engineering background, before the board felt safe enough to make him the head of the Nigerian office. On Wikipedia, this was the comment made about Shell: The practice in Shell was that these businesses were essentially local and that they were best managed by local "operating companies" – often with middle and senior management reinforced by expatriates. mapet:
laudate::
Kachikwu's position on PIB has been well known over the years, even it has been nurtured by Mobil's stand. Do you suddenly think he would jettison all those beliefs overnight, simply because he has become GMD of NNPC? Think man, think! Is he a chameleon??!
6. Kachikwu's position in that event was Mobil's position. Even if his position is not pro-PIB, it has nothing to do with readiness for the job. The PIB in question is a controversial document that has been watered down. You do not expect private sectors to gobble it up when it doesn't favor them I asked you this question earlier and I am going to ask you again, "is he a chameleon?" What makes you think he would suddenly change his mind on the PIB, now that he is GMD? When you provide a convincing answer then we can continue the conversation as your response about "it being Mobil's decision," is too watery for words. It is on record that Kachikwu has voiced out strong objections against the PIB at every public forum where it has come up for discussion. mapet:
laudate::
Many of these professionals who have worked with multinationals for many years, still bear allegiance to them and their 'old boy network'. 7. It's Capitalism Bro. We can hardly do anything about that..... So you agree that Mobil's influence on Kachikwu through the old boy's network, will still see him dancing to their tune? mapet:
laudate::
Under Diezani, Shell International was given a free hand to do practically what they wanted because of the influence they still had with her. 8. ... Trust me, Shell had been doing "practically what they wanted" before Diezani got there...... So why didn't Diezani curb their excesses?? Was she put there to encourage Shell to continue doing whatever they wanted? |
| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by laudate: 5:29pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
mapet:
[b]1. if justifying your assertion with bit-part stats, skewed to fit your position is not subjective, then..... but let's make this a bi academic then; take the Forbes 500 list, run sensitivities on those samples and tell me Engineering background is the prerequisite of running Oil and Gas companies.
2. But you're begging the issue. Your argument is about Engineering background as a requisite for running and Oil and Gas company and even from the sources your reeled out, it shows that's not necessarily the case.
3. We have shown a substantial case of IOCs in Nigeria run by non engineers.
4. Background in Engineering has nothing to do with getting a potential into the leadership talent pool, I'm tempted to believe you know little about how leadership talent pool works. Leadership talent pool is a repository of HIPOs and consist of cross-discipline individuals (Engineers, Accountants, Lawyers, HSE, Geologists, Strategists etc) who are primed for the top. These people got their by their record of performance and not background. Background got them into the system in the first place.
5. yet it says nothing about the fact that having engineering degree is a prerequisite to heading Oil and Gas companies. It only shows a pattern which can be interpreted in many ways.
6. ....and what is the relevance of this ego trip in our discourse?.....but humor me; how's a high-level boardroom meeting session?
7. .... Including individual wells that have water-cut?
8. Well it depends on the company you're referencing. I believe what you've painted above is taken care of by a well crafted out work program, that has taken into consideration enough spares. Capital expenditures are well budgeted for. The board is not your day-2-day office and you don't disturb the board with simple details, when you have Senior Management team consisting of (MD, OPM, CFO) whose duty is to take care of such. What the board gets is the summary scorecard presented by the MD [/b]
Again, you are still arguing blindly. You have not provided any statistics to support your position and you are sitting behind your keyboard to allege that "bit-part stats, skewed to fit your position is not subjective... " You are even demanding for a ' sensitivity analysis .I had to laugh when I read this one. Your response is totally childish. Data can be obtained from a variety of sources. Bring your own data to the fore, and we would ask all readers on this thread to conduct a comparison analysis. You want to use the issue of a minority like the Sunmonu case, to show that this is a norm in the oil & gas industry, when data available clearly proves otherwise. You also claimed in an earlier post that " We have shown a substantial case of IOCs in Nigeria run by non engineers. " Huh?? How? Is the Sunmonu example, (i.e. a solo case) what you termed as substantial?? Fact: 21 out of the 26 top oil & gas organisations in the world are run by people with an engineering background. Why are you so afraid to accept this fact? I didn't make it up. It is there online for anyone who wants to run a check on it! Your 4th comment was filled with HR double-speak. I hear a lot of such concepts being bandied about by human resource practitioners and talent management support staff trying to justify their salaries. Before any one can be labelled a HIPO, he must have excelled in his job. If he was admitted into the company in a technical role, wouldn't an engineering background have played a part in his selection? Even in his continuous performance on that technical role, wouldn't he have to deal with a variety of concepts and equipment that place a demand on his technical skill and training? If he finally excels in the role, then wouldn't his engineering training have played a role in providing him with the requisite skills and solutions to tackle the problem? In your 6th comment, you asked "but humor me; how's a high-level boardroom meeting session? ". Well, you have to attend one to find out. I have attended a few, to assist others in the role of taking the minutes, and trust me, nothing is hidden or too sacred for discussion at board room level, if it concerns the well-being of the company. Even if capital expenditure is budgeted for, there are a few sets of expenditure that is above the approval limit of the CEO & CFO and may need the board's approval, especially if such expenditure has to do with a regulatory matter. Am done with this thread. You are free to accept or disprove what has been written. Most of your responses just show you have a lot to learn about the way a well-structured oil & gas company works. |
| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by postmann: 6:13pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
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| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by mapet: 7:08pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
First off.....my last post on this thread as your argument are loosing flavour to me. laudate:
Again, you are still arguing blindly. You have not provided any statistics to support your position and you are sitting behind your keyboard to allege that "bit-part stats, skewed to fit your position is not subjective... " You are even demanding for a ' sensitivity analysis .
I had to laugh when I read this one. Your response is totally childish. Data can be obtained from a variety of sources. Bring your own data to the fore, and we would ask all readers on this thread to conduct a comparison analysis.
1. Bring my own data? You're the one going stats line not me. I called you out on your amateurish recourse to stats and your inability to analyse and interpret stats. I don't need stats to explain what is plain
You want to use the issue of a minority like the Sunmonu case, to show that this is a norm in the oil & gas industry, when data available clearly proves otherwise.
You also claimed in an earlier post that " We have shown a substantial case of IOCs in Nigeria run by non engineers. " Huh?? How? Is the Sunmonu example, (i.e. a solo case) what you termed as substantial??
2. Aside from Sumonu, I gave other examples in Nigerian industry, Osunbor, Mutiu's replacement is not an engineer, Wale Tinubu is not, Austin Avuru is not an Engineer, Babs Omotowa is not.......
3. This is about disproving your non-established, non-verifiable and non-scientific assertion that Engineering degree is a prerequisite to MD position in and Oil and Gas Company
Fact: 21 out of the 26 top oil & gas organisations in the world are run by people with an engineering background. Why are you so afraid to accept this fact? I didn't make it up. It is there online for anyone who wants to run a check on it!
4. You're interpreting stats awkwardly........simple
Your 4th comment was filled with HR double-speak. I hear a lot of such concepts being bandied about by human resource practitioners and talent management support staff trying to justify their salaries. Before any one can be labelled a HIPO, he must have excelled in his job. If he was admitted into the company in a technical role, wouldn't an engineering background have played a part in his selection?
5. Then the lesson is to lay off what you know nothing about. HR double-speak? Talent pool is universal in companies that practice it.
6. I am not an HR FYI.
7. You still don't get it. You have no clue about talent pool judging from the underlined
Even in his continuous performance on that technical role, wouldn't he have to deal with a variety of concepts and equipment that place a demand on his technical skill and training? If he finally excels in the role, then wouldn't his engineering training have played a role in providing him with the requisite skills and solutions to tackle the problem?
8. Forget it. your argument is flawed and wrong.
In your 6th comment, you asked "but humor me; how's a high-level boardroom meeting session? ". Well, you have to attend one to find out. I have attended a few, to assist others in the role of taking the minutes, and trust me, nothing is hidden or too sacred for discussion at board room level, if it concerns the well-being of the company.
9. You attended a board meeting to take minutes! I see!!!, I don't see the value of the exposure in your argument.
Even if capital expenditure is budgeted for, there are a few sets of expenditure that is above the approval limit of the CEO & CFO and may need the board's approval, especially if such expenditure has to do with a regulatory matter.
Am done with this thread. You are free to accept or disprove what has been written. Most of your responses just show you have a lot to learn about the way a well-structured oil & gas company works.
10. Now this is the part that got me ROTF
Cheers |
| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by laudate: 3:05am On Aug 06, 2015 |
mapet:
First off.....my last post on this thread as your argument are loosing flavour to me.
[b] 1. Bring my own data? You're the one going stats line not me. I called you out on your amateurish recourse to stats and your inability to analyse and interpret stats. I don't need stats to explain what is plain
2. Aside from Sumonu, I gave other examples in Nigerian industry, Osunbor, Mutiu's replacement is not an engineer, Wale Tinubu is not, Austin Avuru is not an Engineer, Babs Omotowa is not.......
3. This is about disproving your non-established, non-verifiable and non-scientific assertion that Engineering degree is a prerequisite to MD position in and Oil and Gas Company
4. You're interpreting stats awkwardly........simple
5. Then the lesson is to lay off what you know nothing about. HR double-speak? Talent pool is universal in companies that practice it.
6. I am not an HR FYI.
7. You still don't get it. You have no clue about talent pool judging from the underlined
8. Forget it. your argument is flawed and wrong.
9. You attended a board meeting to take minutes! I see!!!, I don't see the value of the exposure in your argument.
10. Now this is the part that got me ROTF
Cheers [/b] Hahaha .... you are still arguing blindly. Why am I not surprised? Unfortunately, you are beginning to sound lame and ridiculous. Point of correction, I called you out first, on your lame inaccuracies and instead of providing your own data to dispute what was written, you took refuge in pettiness and catty remarks. Facts and data have been given, and you have refused to see the truth. Instead, you keep using the case of a few minor exceptions to try and push through the false impression that the appointment of non-technical folks to head oil & gas firms is an on-going trend, or it signifies the industry standard. Can't help you, sorry! You have chosen to view the whole thing through blinkered lenses. You really do have a long way to go....! Even if I attended a board meeting to take minutes, how does that detract from the points made on this thread? Have you attended any? Please share the experience. You won't see the value of that exposure, until you take off the blinkers from your shallow mindset. You won't see the fact that details of everything that transpired during the board meeting, are recorded in the minutes which makes you privy to all the decisions taken by the board, even though you are not part of the decision making process at that level. Have you forgotten that you actually requested to know what kind of discussions are held at board meetings? Despite all that has been said, you have still not been able to comprehend the salient issues, nor have you been able to give a coherent factual response to any of the points raised earlier. I guess that is why you decided to pick on this??!! Hehehe .... how shallow!  You are trying too hard to sound intelligent. Unfortunately, it isn't working. The Babs Omotowa and Austin Avuru's examples are rather too late in the day. Last time I checked, Austin Avuru's company was not rated as one of the top oil & gas companies in West Africa, talk less of the world! Mutiu Sunmonu who you keep citing as the MD of Shell Nigeria, retired from Shell since early this year. So update your knowledge base. But if you insist on using retired MDs as your yardstick, no problem. Some of the former MDs at Shell, had engineering degrees which equipped them with the right technical skills used in driving the fortunes of the company. Am not disputing that they picked up commercial skills along the way which helped them on their corporate journey to the boardroom. Chimaobi Jonathan Ibeneche, the former MD of Shell Exploration Nigeria (SNEPCO) is an electrical engineer. He later moved to NLNG as the first Nigerian Managing Director, and is currently the MD of Erotron which owns OML 18 producing 21,000 BOPD from six fields since 2012. It has reserves of 1.5 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent (BBOE) in eight fields, the largest being Cawthorne Channel, Buguma Creek and Alakiri, according to industry estimates. There are several other oil & gas companies operating locally with production engineers, at the helm. This shows that having the right technical background, is just as important as the commercial skills or knowledge brought to the table in the executive suite. For example: Tunde Afolabi, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer of Amni International Petroleum Development Company is a geologist & production engineer whose firm Amni has been producing oil in Nigeria, since 2006. His company was awarded the Okoro Field (Okoro) and Setu Field (Setu) are located in OML 112 in shallow water offshore Nigeria, as part of the Nigerian government's indigenous licensing programme. Total gross production at the Okoro field in 2013 was 6.5 mmbbls of oil, representing a gross average daily rate of 18,041 bopd (year-on-year increase of circa 7%), and a process uptime of 98.6%. http://www.afren.com/operations/nigeria/okoro_setu/Elisabeth Proust, Managing Director/Chief Executive of Total E&P Nigeria Ltd, Total Upstream Nigeria Ltd is a graduate of Mechanics and Marine Hydrodynamics from the Mechanical Engineering School (ENSM) in Central Nantes, France and also has a degree in Petroleum Engineering from the French Petroleum Institute (ENSPM), Paris; Nolan O’Neal is Chairman/Managing Director of Mobil Producing Nigeria (MPN) and Esso Exploration & Production Nigeria Limited (EEPNL), in Nigeria. He has over 30 years oil and gas industry experience, having joined then Exxon Corporation in the United States as Project Engineer in February 1983, thereafter undertaking numerous professional and leadership positions in project and technical organizations, research, global operations, gas marketing, and project management. He holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Structural Engineering from Texas A&M University and a Master of Engineering degree from Tulane University in United States, graduating with highest honors at each of the schools; Cornelis Zegelaar, Snr. Vice President & Managing Director of Addax Petroleum has an MSc in Mechanical Engineering from Eindhoven University. From 2002 until 2005 he held the position of Vice President for Exploration and Production and General Manager at Shell, Venezuela. Since 2011 he has held the position of Senior Vice President and Managing Director, Addax Petroleum, Nigeria; Dr. ‘Layi Fatona, Managing Director of Niger Delta Exploration & Production Plc, is a Petroleum Geologist with over forty years of experience in the petroleum industry, with MSc and Doctorate degrees from the Imperial College of Science Technology, University of London. His firm owns 100% stake and operatorship of the Omerelu Farm Out Area in 2014 from the NNPC/Chevron (JV) with the NDPR granting NDEP an equitable interest in the reservoir. His company NDEP wholly operates a mini refinery at Ogbele with a current slated capacity of 1,000bpd generating revenues of US1m per month. The company was the first private refinery in Nigeria to receive an operating licence by the Federal Government and has the sole right to sell surplus diesel fuel to the local market. http://ngdelta.com/our-business/downstream/ ; http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/niger-delta-exploration-to-raise-450m-through-public-offer/189330/Dr. Jude Amaefule is Chairman/CEO and Co-Founder of Emerald Energy Resources Exploration (Nig.) Limited, and holds a BSc (Honours); M.Sc. & PhD degrees in Petroleum Engineering from the University of Southern California in Los Angeles. His firm owns the 1,400 square kilometer OPL 229 block (Now OML 141). So for every company with a non-technical person you touted heading an oil firm, you have several others with a technical background in different oil & gas companies, as CEO. Some of them are even geologists, whose technical backgrounds share a lot of similarities with petroleum engineering. In some schools abroad, engineering ( i.e Petroleum Engineering) has a number of geology courses embedded in it, (i.e. Petroleum Geoscience) with the unique combination being taught as part of a Reservoir Evaluation and Management programme. You can choose to split hairs over this. You can also continue to wave your so-called 'talent pool' flag. That's your call. Am done with you. Continue to wallow in ignorance. 1 Like |
| Re: Emmanuel Ibe-Kachikwu Is New NNPC GMD - Sahara Reporters by laudate: 1:47pm On Sep 09, 2015 |
samofson:
A consigliere can never be the head of a family unless the family is in transition or on its way down.
I guess the [b]New GMD will be some sort of reciever who will maximise the value of NNPC by restructuring and eventually spilting it [/b]as well as selling off or closing down unprofitable and moribund divisions. He will then be replaced by operations oreinted people who will run the day to day affairs of the split NNPC.
If that is PMB's plan for Kachikwu, than kudos to him. No better person to finally put the nail in NNPC's coffin than Kachikwu but if he is there to continue to run NNPC then we all are on a very long thing!.
Guy, your predictions are coming to pass. Kachikwu has announced plans to split the Pipelines and Products Marketing Company (PPMC) which is a subsidiary of NNPC, into 3 parts or 3 separate companies. Let us wait and see how things will unfold. |
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