Scholar8200:
Did I mention guilt or nature? (Hint: Just re-read the post)

Don't read your own meanings bro, the reference to children there refers to the humble and dependent nature of children, nought of sinlessness was mentioned!

That's why Jesus was born of a virgin by the Power of the Spirit hence He came without the inherited sinful nature, just like Adam, and He only could redeem us from sin!

. I always read ur post carefully before responding,and I read it very well,how can u say jesus was not referring to the sinless nature of children,again in the bible,jesus say'bring the chridren to me,for the kingdom of God belongs to the like of them' who does heaven belong to if not the righteous servants of God,am amazed how people styl don't get simple english,u said I shouldn't read my own meanings,while actually u are doing that exact thing,by reading ur own meaning to jesus words..........so if u christian say becos jesus ws born without an earthly father,u say his father is God,and becos of that u worship him,now I have an even better man for u guys to worship in ur bible,hebrew 7:3"without father,nor mother,no geneology,without beginning of days and ending,he remains a priest for ever..."This verse is referrring to a man,called mechizedek,this man in ur bible is even greater than jesus,cos jesus had a mother,jesus had a begining,in his mother's womb,this man has no begiining,jesus died,this man didn't die,so since u christians want to worship jesus becos he has no earthly father,this man mechizedek deserves ur worship more than jesus.....in john 16vs 7,jesus say very truly I have to go,before the comforter can come...this comforter could never be the holy spirit becos the holy spirit was already with jesus (luke 4 vs1,10vs 38),from this any rational being already sees jesus was talking about someone else,who?mohammad...just like he's coming was predicted in the old testament with his name mohammad written in it........God doesn't work like that my brother,everyman will be responsible for his actions,how can God punish innocent billions for the sins of Adam,when they weren't in existence the,did Adam tell ur or me before he ate the apple,it is irrational for God to put the sins of ur father on u...

lexiconkabir:
@scholar8200, firstly i have to express how highly disappointed i am in you, you claimed paul was circumcised i asked you to proof it, you could not,

maybe I did not see it:Paul was circumcised and even circumcised Timothy (not for the latter to get saved, he was saved already)
Phillipians 3:4-6
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

(1) the verses you stated clearly shows that "the spirit is a human prophet" for instance 1john4:1-3 which spirit are you asked to test if it is of God? can you test a spirit? no! you can only test a man if he is truely God's sent...............(2) the second verse you gave still shows that a spirit is a man, note that word EVERY[which means they are many "spirits"(human prophets)], is the "holyghost" more than 1? "spirit" in the new testament means a human prophet. spirit of antichrist simply means a fake human prophet against christ! why will jesus use HE(meaning a man not a spirit literally) is the paraclete(comforter, advocate)? dont make illogical assumptions just to buttress your points. i think you ignored my point where i said with prove that that there is NO greek word for "GHOST"

Men prophesied in the Old and New testament when the Spirit of God inspired them. Are they then the Holy Spirit?NO

Luke 12:12
for the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you
John 14:17
How would a man dwell in another man?

Jesus used He just as the spirit of divination cast outfrom the damsel too was described as a he
18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And [size=13pt]he[/size] came out the same hour.
Acts 16:18

adewalker:
. I always read ur post carefully before responding,and I read it very well,how can u say jesus was not referring to the sinless nature of children,again in the bible,jesus say'bring the chridren to me,for the kingdom of God belongs to the like of them' who does heaven belong to if not the righteous servants of God
,am amazed how people styl don't get simple english,u said I shouldn't read my own meanings,while actually u are doing that exact thing,by reading ur own meaning to jesus words.

What was the background to Matthew 18? Why did Jesus pick the child?
Matthew 18:1,4
1At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Settled!

.........so if u christian say becos jesus ws born without an earthly father,u say his father is God,and becos of that u worship him,now I have an even better man for u guys to worship in ur bible,hebrew 7:3"without father,nor mother,no geneology,without beginning of days and ending,he remains a priest for ever..."This verse is referrring to a man,called mechizedek,this man in ur bible is even greater than jesus,cos jesus had a mother,jesus had a begining,in his mother's womb,this man has no begiining,jesus died,this man didn't die,so since u christians want to worship jesus becos he has no earthly father,this man mechizedek deserves ur worship more than jesus....

Was melchizedek the Word that was with Father from the Beginning? Did melchizedek accomplish any redemption?! stop being ridiculous!

.in john 16vs 7,jesus say very truly I have to go,before the comforter can come...this comforter could never be the holy spirit becos the holy spirit was already with jesus (luke 4 vs1,10vs 38),from this any rational being already sees jesus was talking about someone else,who?

Jesus did not say the Holy Spirit was not around, He referred to the Latter's role in the New Testament
John 14:17
17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you
John 14:17 He dwells with you (NOW) shall be IN you (THEN)

mohammad...just like he's coming was predicted in the old testament with his name mohammad written in it........God doesn't work like that my brother,everyman will be responsible for his actions,how can God punish innocent billions for the sins of Adam,when they weren't in existence the,did Adam tell ur or me before he ate the apple,it is irrational for God to put the sins of ur father on u...

God has provided redemption and punishment will be based on acceptance or rejection.

@scholar8200, (1)the verse you gave where paul proclaimed he was circumcised, well i dont see that as a concrete proof, cuz paul has always been a liar, dreamer of dreams, "he his the spirit" that was needed to be tested, i asked for a proof like that of jesus..............(2)maybe you didnt read my post very well or you chose to ignore it, there is no greekword for "ghost" how then did that word enter the bible? this is deceptiveness on the part of those translating the bible. paracletes means "the spirit" how then was "holy" accompanied with it? dont you understand? you ignored that verse that used EVERY cuz it did not favour.

@scholar8200, to buttress my point that spirit means a human prophet see 1john4:6 "we are of God:he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know WE THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, and the spirit of error" so you see clearly that in the new testament spirit means a human prophet not the hocus bugos you are coming up with.

Scholar8200:

Do you mean therefore that the state of man as described in Genesis 6:5 was God's making?

You failed to address the point I raised. Instead, you run to Gen 6:5, when actually you failed again to address the question raised on it in my previous post. I will repeat myself again. Prior to Gen 6:5, we are told that Adam and eve were to suffer for their sin as outlined account of his sin. 1.) Adam and his wife were cast from Eden - Genesis 3:23.
2.) This deprived them of the tree of life (which deprived them of unending physical life) - Genesis 3:22. 3.) The man was cursed with having to work for food - Genesis 3:17-19. And 4.) The woman was cursed with pain in childbirth and submission to man - Genesis 3:16.

Now from the judgment passed, it is observed that women are still labouring in pain during child bearing and men is still finding it tough to get their daily sustenance, but Jesus died for the sin. How come the cursed has not been lifted since he came to die for the sin and cursed was placed. If he actually died for the sin, then there should have been any problem in those areas above. Explain pls.

And again, was Adam forgiven after all these punishments for his sin?

Is that how man was created? The implication of Adam having descendants after his likeness explains it all!
Genesis 6:5
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Since you deliberately failed to address my question on this in my last post, I'll repeat it aagain:

Now, the preceeding verses of Gen6:5 makes us understand that the Sons of Gods saw and married some daughters of man; then the following questions should be addressed
1# Who were these sons of God?
2#Are they also created in Gods image?
3#There offsprings were called heroes of old/men of reknown (Gene 6:4), what does these things mean to you?

4# According to 6:3 it is said as a result of what the sons of God and daughters of men did in first and second verses, their days on earth were cut short to 120years, is this true or false?
5# How come Adam despite being the embodiement of this sin lived over 900years on earth?

Evaded Question: "To follow your logic here, are you implying that every other descendant of Adam were seperated from God because of this Adamic sin?"

Jesus came to ransom us from an extant and obvious problem, what is the need for man on what he knew he was?
John 8:34
Jesus answered them, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, Whoever commits and practices sin is the slave of sin.

The underlined is clear enough, perhaps you missed it. The verse didnt say they've inherited sin, rather its say, if they commit and PRACTICES sin then they are slave to sin.

Present a clearer one please.

Here sin is depicted both as an action and is personified as a master. Here's where the statement of Paul applies:
We know that the Law is spiritual; but I am a creature of the flesh [carnal, unspiritual], [having been sold into slavery under [the control of] sin

Sorry, I wont be taking anything from Paul.

Before the fall, Adam was alive in God by the Breath of the Almighty (Genesis 2:7) and in that state, he could relate/fellowship with God. When God said he will die if he disobeyed, []He meant that Breath by which Adam became a living soul will be cut off:

Then since you said it has been cut off at that time when Adam fell, then how did Job got his own in job 33:4?

All men except one and his family!

Why the exception of the man and his family? Does that mean they weren't affected by the Adamic sin?

Consecration does not imply sinlessness! Mary was NOT sinless since she was born through copulation btwn a man and woman, Jesus wasnt!

You don't get it. Read my reply to your post again. You quoted Psalm 50:5 like this: "Behold, I was brought forth in [a state of] iniquity; my mother was sinful who conceived me [and I too am sinful]". I was actually showing you your mistake that a totally different thing his in Psalm 50:5. I think the verse is in Psalm 51:5; then I replied you by questioning that verse as regards to the underlined, how could a sinful Mary conceive a sinless? Remember Job said a similar thing Job 25v4: how can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

3 The ungodly are perverse and estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.
Psalm 58:3
The highlighted is obvious even today! As soon as a toddler starts speaking, lying starts!

The ungodly were refered to here, not just anybody hence the context refering the righteous in verse 10-11 that they would be glad that the wicked are wiped out.

See John 8:34 quoted before.
Answer this: Did God create man as a sinner?

NO

If no, whence came sin?

Sin comes in when you disobey the commandment of God.

"..If he stops sinning and follows the laws that give life , he will not die, but live. I willforgive the sins he has committed , and he will live because he has done what is right and good..." Ezekiel 14.

1. There was a standard of righteousness that was acceptable in the OT and those that followed it were approved of God

You can't possibly hold the above view and still refer us to one Adamic sin. Since those that follow led the law are approved as righteous, then why the need for Jesus sacrifice again?

The Chapter and verses of Ezekiel are so clear that man would be jugde by his handiwork and not some imaginary sins he inherited.

lexiconkabir:
@scholar8200, firstly i have to express how highly disappointed i am in you, you claimed paul was circumcised i asked you to proof it, you could not, thats BTW.(1) the verses you stated clearly shows that "the spirit is a human prophet" for instance 1john4:1-3 which spirit are you asked to test if it is of God? can you test a spirit? no! you can only test a man if he is truely God's sent...............(2) the second verse you gave still shows that a spirit is a man, note that word EVERY[which means they are many "spirits"(human prophets)], is the "holyghost" more than 1? "spirit" in the new testament means a human prophet. spirit of antichrist simply means a fake human prophet against christ! why will jesus use HE(meaning a man not a spirit literally) is the paraclete(comforter, advocate)? dont make illogical assumptions just to buttress your points. i think you ignored my point where i said with prove that that there is NO greek word for "GHOST"

Kabiru check your heart and stop being pervert !!!

Your first point about the Spirit being reffered to as "human prophet" is not only laughable but ridiculous and unscrupulous.

So u are driving at getting us convinced that ur Prophet is Paraclete ( Advocate/Comforter) Pneuma( Spirit ) Jesus spoke about according to ur post i read somewhere on this thread? Funny

So Spirit can marry wives, have children, sex slaves with endless sexual activities, and eventually died and buried like your Prophet?

Hahahahahaha make una help me laugh o Lexiconkabir say Spirit (Pneuma) mean Prophet!!!

I think u will have to explain what makes Prophet a Prophet if not the "SPIRIT in him" be it EVIL which makes him false Prophet or GOOD which makes him true Prophet?

But on a more serious note, John was reffering to the spirit of antichrist that operate through People not the prophets as mortal men.

Just imagine where Jesus reffered to Peter as Satan in Matt 16:22-23, does it mean Peter was the Satan Jesus meant? NO, it was the spirit which tried to speak through Peter and that's Satan.

Meanwhile i will respond to ur post where u called Paul a liar, Rom3:7 later. But before then read Romans 3: 5-8 if u are not bias u will know that Paul was answering his critics by affirming that God will not spare anyone who promotes God's rightousness in an unrighteous way, that if God allows that, then how will he judge the world vs 5&6. Pls read NIV for more understanding......................

lexiconkabir:
@scholar8200, (1)the verse you gave where paul proclaimed he was circumcised, well i dont see that as a concrete proof, cuz paul has always been a liar, dreamer of dreams, "he his the spirit" that was needed to be tested, i asked for a proof like that of jesus..............(2)maybe you didnt read my post very well or you chose to ignore it, there is no greekword for "ghost" how then did that word enter the bible? this is deceptiveness on the part of those translating the bible. paracletes means "the spirit" how then was "holy" accompanied with it? dont you understand? you ignored that verse that used EVERY cuz it did not favour.

1. Your hate for Paul is obvious! Meanwhile, can we prove the circumcision of David, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Elijah even Moses? No! Why? For most of them, the records do not include details of their childhood! So Paul's reference to his circumcision is true. You seem not to realise what a fundamentalist pharisee (like Paul used to be) looked like!

2. For the word ghost I counsel thee to consult a lexicon/thesaurus to see that spirit=ghost!

lexiconkabir:
@scholar8200, to buttress my point that spirit means a human prophet see 1john4:6 "we are of God:he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know WE THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, and the spirit of error" so you see clearly that in the new testament spirit means a human prophet not the hocus bugos you are coming up with.

A person may be inspired by either the Holy Spirit or contrary spirits.
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost
1 Corinth 12:3

Here, Paul clearly talks of one speaking by inspiration of the Spirit. 1 John 4 talks of people speaking by contrary spirits and denying the Truth!

Scholar8200:

1. Your hate for Paul is obvious! Meanwhile, can we prove the circumcision of David, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Elijah even Moses? No! Why? For most of them, the records do not include details of their childhood! So Paul's reference to his circumcision is true. You seem not to realise what a fundamentalist pharisee (like Paul used to be) looked like!

i still maintain my stand that paul was known to be a liar(lies to bring people into his religion) he cant be trusted.

Scholar2800:

2. For the word ghost I counsel thee to consult a lexicon/thesaurus to see that spirit=ghost!

ghost means the spirit of a dead person, check a dictionary to confirm, hence a spirit is never equal to a ghost! thereby i repeat my question, there is no greek word for ghost, how then did it find its way into the bible?

Scholar8200:


A person may be inspired by either the Holy Spirit or contrary spirits.
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:

@bolded, paul did call jesus an accursed of God(gal3:13) implying he never had "the spirit" in him

Scholar8200:

Here, Paul clearly talks of one speaking by inspiration of the Spirit. 1 John 4 talks of people speaking by contrary spirits and denying the Truth!

people speaking of contrary spirits by calling themselves SPIRIT OF THE TRUTH just as jesus prophesied the coming of a SPIRIT OF THE TRUTH?? brother, it is crystal clear that spirit in the NT means a human prophet, dont draw assumptions by your knowledge. spirit is never equal to a ghost(dead person)

@samunique, your obnoxious nature never seems to amaze me, check 1john4:1"beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spiritS(notice the plural) whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world" @bolds isnt it interesting that jesus used spirits and prophets interchangeably in this verse? read 1john4:6, people claimed to be THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH,it is crystal clear that the NT makes us understand that spirit means human prophet, if this is the case, then who else fit that position of "human prophet(spirit)"? bro always think before you talk! and hey! keep laughing at your blindness and dumbness! about paul i see no reason why you are trying to come up with some hocus bogus, when he himself said "THROUGH MY LIE", if you think i'm biased, well thats your opinion anyway, it does not add or removed the slightess of my actual personality. your opinion is your right.

[quote author=Scholar8200 post=37145019]What was the background to Matthew 18? Why did Jesus pick the child?
Matthew 18:1,4
1At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Settled!

Was melchizedek the Word that was with Father from the Beginning? Did melchizedek accomplish any redemption?! stop being ridiculous!

Jesus did not say the Holy Spirit was not around, He referred to the Latter's role in the New Testament
John 14:17
17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you
John 14:17 He dwells with you (NOW) shall be IN you (THEN).

the jesus tells u in plain english,'unless u become like the little children' no heaven for u,and it is a known fact only the righteous enters God kingdom,so I don't get wat other story is there to argue there,again to jesus tells u how to get salvation he say"unless ur righteousness exceeds that of the pharises and the teachers,u shall not enter heaven..."Jesus is telling u except u are more righteous than priest and scholars of religion,u will never enter heaven,and how can u christians be righteous than the pharises when u don't even obey the first commandment of all that jesus gave"hear o isreal ur God our lord is ONE",u christians say no,that God is in three forms,jesus already condemned countered that,he told u God is one, I brot the issue of mechizedek,becos u christians worship jesus cos he had no father,so I was now telling u,since that's the reason of u worshipping jesus,there's a man in ur bible greater than jesus,cos this mechizedek had no father,nor a mother,no begiining no ending....God says in the quran "and for anything which we have willed,we but say the word 'be' and it is" quran 16:40...that's how God acts,anytime he willed something he only say 'be' and it is,for God to create a billion jesus without father,he just says 'be' and it is,for God to create 100 earths,he only say 'be' and it is,just like that,that's the power and majesty of God,....in john 16;17 jesus gives a prophecy about the coming of a comforter,note the word he used pls..."Very truly I tell u,it is for u Good I go away,UNLESS I go,the comforter WILL NOT come..."This is clearly stating for the person to come jesus has to go,telling u about mohammad,I mean common this is english,it can't be the holy spirit,becos the only spirit was already with jesus...this is telling u about a man coming...mohammad and if u don't accept him and his message,u reject God,and God never forgives blasphemy,

truthman2013:


You failed to address the point I raised. Instead, you run to Gen 6:5, when actually you failed again to address the question raised on it in my previous post. I will repeat myself again. Prior to Gen 6:5, we are told that Adam and eve were to suffer for their sin as outlined account of his sin. 1.) Adam and his wife were cast from Eden - Genesis 3:23.
2.) This deprived them of the tree of life (which deprived them of unending physical life) - Genesis 3:22. 3.) The man was cursed with having to work for food - Genesis 3:17-19. And 4.) The woman was cursed with pain in childbirth and submission to man - Genesis 3:16.

Now from the judgment passed, it is observed that women are still labouring in pain during child bearing and men is still finding it tough to get their daily sustenance, but Jesus died for the sin. How come the cursed has not been lifted since he came to die for the sin and cursed was placed. If he actually died for the sin, then there should have been any problem in those areas above. Explain pls.

Yes, if you read Daniel 9:24-27, you will see that after the death of the Messiah, there will still be some world events before the full consummation of all that Christ's death accomplished. meanwhile, the present dispensation of the Church/Gentiles was a mystery to the prophets then(Ephesians 3:3-7) but this dispensation will be wrapped up with the coming of the prince (anti-christ Daniel 9:26b). Meaning God has His timing just as Jesus did not come in the OT but in the fulness of time Galatians 4:4; Whose time? God's.

And again, was Adam forgiven after all these punishments for his sin?

Forgiveness is preceded by repentance. What I find in Genesis 3 was more of refusal to own up by both Adam and Eve; not repentance.(They had lost the Life hence willingness to accept fault was not there). What's more? the repercussion for disobedience, death, was told them ahead of time;God's forgiveness does not excuse us from the consequence of our presumptuous sins (especially when we were warned beforehand).

Since you deliberately failed to address my question on this in my last post, I'll repeat it aagain:

Now, the preceeding verses of Gen6:5 makes us understand that the Sons of Gods saw and married some daughters of man; then the following questions should be addressed
1# Who were these sons of God?
2#Are they also created in Gods image?
3#There offsprings were called heroes of old/men of reknown (Gene 6:4), what does these things mean to you?

4# According to 6:3 it is said as a result of what the sons of God and daughters of men did in first and second verses, their days on earth were cut short to 120years, is this true or false?
5# How come Adam despite being the embodiement of this sin lived over 900years on earth?

1. They were the angels that kept not their first estate Jude 6. Unlike the ones cast out from Heaven with Lucifer, these ones have been reserved in chains (hence are not of the number that saints today bind in prayer). Another place when angels are so called is in Job 1:6

2.NO

3.The same became mighty men.—Heb., They were the mighty men that were of old, men of name. “Gibborim,” mighty men (see Genesis 10:, has nothing to do with stature, but means heroes, warriors. biblehub.com

4. Just like Methuselah's name was a prophesy of God's coming judgement(which made Enoch straighten up his life after his birth and also preach to warn others Jude 14-16), Genesis 6:3 refers not to age but to a declaration of the period before that judgement. Noah who found grace in God's sight must have known this hence his efforts in warning the people 2 Peter 2:5 That 120yrs was not setting maximum age for man!

5. ?

Evaded Question: "To follow your logic here, are you implying that every other descendant of Adam were seperated from God because of this Adamic sin?"

YES! All that were born of natural copulation. Why did Cain manifest: anger, hatred and murder even after the Lord admonished him thus:
Genesis 4:6,7
6 “Why are you so angry?” the Lord asked Cain. “Why do you look so dejected?
7 You will be accepted if you do what is right. But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master.”

P.S. Vs 7 shows how man was still a free-moral agent responsible for the choices he made!

The underlined is clear enough, perhaps you missed it. The verse didnt say they've inherited sin, rather its say, if they commit and PRACTICES sin then they are slave to sin.

And who was not born (naturally) and did not commit sin(s) as soon as will could be asserted and words could be articulated?!

Present a clearer one please.

Psalm 58:3
The ungodly are perverse and estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

Then since you said it has been cut off at that time when Adam fell, then how did Job got his own in job 33:4?

Job 33:4 was not Job speaking but Eliphaz. (Job 32:2 was where he started his speech) Now he was not referring the Life of God in man that adam lost; he was referring to the natural breath as used in Psalm 104:29,30

29 When You hide Your face, they are troubled and dismayed; when You take away their breath, they die and return to their dust.
30 When You send forth Your Spirit and give them breath, they are created, and You replenish the face of the ground.
It's an acknowledgement of the creative work of God's Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters before creation began by His Word. Genesis 1:2

Why the exception of the man and his family? Does that mean they weren't affected by the Adamic sin?

Oh yes they were; but the man just like Abel, Enoch etc realised that he was a free moral agent and chose to please God (to the limit of the level of righteousness then). Those who were destroyed were those who yielded to wickedness like Cain did.

You don't get it. Read my reply to your post again. You quoted Psalm 50:5 like this: "Behold, I was brought forth in [a state of] iniquity; my mother was sinful who conceived me [and I too am sinful]". I was actually showing you your mistake that a totally different thing his in Psalm 50:5. I think the verse is in Psalm 51:5; then I replied you by questioning that verse as regards to the underlined, how could a sinful Mary conceive a sinless? Remember Job said a similar thing Job 25v4: how can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

That's why I said the seed of life is in the man. David,Zechariah, Daniel as well as Jezebel etc were all born as a result of man-and-woman copulation and were not without that fallen nature. The choices they made is what differentiated one from the other: he that chose to please God was thus enabled eg Enoch walked with and pleased God and God took him; Cain rejected God's counsel and he was cursed!

The ungodly were refered to here, not just anybody hence the context refering the righteous in verse 10-11 that they would be glad that the wicked are wiped out.

I dont know of any one born naturally that the passage did not apply to!

NO

Whence sin in the life of Cain down till today?

Sin comes in when you disobey the commandment of God.
"..If he stops sinning and follows the laws that give life , he will not die, but live. I willforgive the sins he has committed , and he will live because he has done what is right and good..." Ezekiel 14.

Can you specify the chapter and verse where you got that from (if possible the version)? If you were referring to Ezekiel 18:9, here is what it says:
hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord God.

[color=red] You can't possibly hold the above view and still refer us to one Adamic sin. Since those that follow led the law are approved as righteous, then why the need for Jesus sacrifice again?

Because the Law was a part of the Old Covenant and both it and the New Covenant were based on God's promise to Abraham that in his Seed will all the Nations of the Earth be blessed. Besides, when Jesus taught about the law (Matthew 5) it became clear that God's desire was something that was from the heart not some externally strained observances while the inward part is filled with lusts and hate!
God desires that we worship Him in spirit and truth; this transcends external observances!
Ezekiel 36:26 proves this.
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

This was God's promise through Ezekiel. Now if the righteousness of the law was sufficient what need was this promise?

lexiconkabir:
i still maintain my stand that paul was known to be a liar(lies to bring people into his religion) he cant be trusted.

Kindly give me some of his lies

ghost means the spirit of a dead person, check a dictionary to confirm, hence a spirit is never equal to a ghost! thereby i repeat my question, there is no greek word for ghost, how then did it find its way into the bible?

The highlighted accentuates an alternate usage of both words being synonymous. Just as some passages use heart/spirit interchangeably.
Ghost=spirit out of a body
Spirit=ghost in a body

lexiconkabir:
@bolded, paul did call jesus an accursed of God(gal3:13) implying he never had "the spirit" in him

Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree.

I am yet to see your claim here! Paul affirms that Jesus took our place and redeemed us from sin and its consequence:curse. Paul spoke of something already accomplished as the Father purposed it (Isaiah 53:4,6,7,. That passage you misunderstood refers to one blaspheming the name of Jesus!
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Did Paul surrender to and call Jesus Lord?
Phillipians 3:8,9
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

people speaking of contrary spirits by calling themselves SPIRIT OF THE TRUTH just as jesus prophesied the coming of a SPIRIT OF THE TRUTH?? brother, it is crystal clear that spirit in the NT means a human prophet, dont draw assumptions by your knowledge. spirit is never equal to a ghost(dead person)

Christ promise of sending the Spirit was not a new plan:

Ezekiel 36:27
And I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you shall heed My ordinances and do them

John 14:17
The Spirit of Truth, Whom the world cannot receive (welcome, take to its heart), because it does not see Him or know and recognize Him. But you know and recognize Him, for He lives with you [constantly] and[b] will be in you[/b].

adewalker:

the Jesus tells u in plain english,'unless u become like the little children' no heaven for u

It is equally plain that the word humble was mentioned!
Since you accept Jesus' Words do you believe this:
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

,and it is a known fact only the righteous enters God kingdom,so I don't get wat other story is there to argue there,again to Jesus tells u how to get salvation he say"unless ur righteousness exceeds that of the pharises and the teachers,u shall not enter heaven..."Jesus is telling u except u are more righteous than priest and scholars of religion,u will never enter heaven

It means the heart must be dealt with not just the external actions! From where you got that, did you see this:
Matthew 5:6
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
If yes, then you may ask how can a heart become pure?
and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith
Acts 15:9 Has your heart thus being purified as Cornelius' was by faith in Jesus Christ or are you just looking for points with which to argue?

...in john 16;17 Jesus gives a prophecy about the coming of a comforter,note the word he used pls..."Very truly I tell u,it is for u Good I go away,UNLESS I go,the comforter WILL NOT come..."This is clearly stating for the person to come Jesus has to go,telling u about mohammad,I mean common this is english,it can't be the holy spirit,becos the only spirit was already with Jesus...this is telling u about a man coming...mohammad and if u don't accept him and his message,u reject God,and God never forgives blasphemy,

What is Mohammed's role in (i) God's promise to Abraham (ii) the New Covenant?

Scholar8200:
Kindly give me some of his lies

one of the biggest: according to my gospel(meaning many gospels did not agree) christ raised from the dead(which implies he "died" on the cross, which he did not)

Scholar8200:
The highlighted accentuates an alternate usage of both words being synonymous. Just as some passages use heart/spirit interchangeably.
Ghost=spirit out of a body
Spirit=ghost in a body

@bolded, since you agree that a ghost is a spirit(definite:type) that is out of a body(meaning a dead person), how can it be equal to a spirit(indefinite case:it can be of any type). this is simple english, i really am surprised how ghost=spirit to you.

lexiconkabir:
one of the biggest: according to my gospel(meaning many gospels did not agree) christ raised from the dead(which implies he on the cross, which he did not)

Acts 3:15 were words spoken by Peter when Paul was still the fundamentalist Pharisee
15 and killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses

The highlighted accentuates an alternate usage of both words being synonymous. Just as some passages use heart/spirit interchangeably.
Ghost=spirit out of a body
Spirit=ghost in a body @bolded, since you agree that a ghost is a spirit(definite:type) that is out of a body(meaning a dead person), how can it be equal to a spirit(indefinite case:it can be of any type). this is simple english, i really am surprised how ghost=spirit to you.

Writers use it interchangeably. I am persuaded that if this discourse was a secular one you would have agreed to this!

Scholar8200:
Acts 3:15 were words spoken by Peter when Paul was still the fundamentalist Pharisee
15 and killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses

"they did not kill him, they did not crusify him, it was made to look so to them, all they follow is CONJECTURE........."(Q4:157) during the most critical life time of jesus, ALL(i mean all) his disciples fled to the upper room, none of them saw what happened, not until when jesus went to them and said peace be upon you, and they were scared and he said i am alive touch me for a ghost has no have flesh and bone(meaning he never died)

Scholar2800:

Writers use it interchangeably. I am persuaded that if this discourse was a secular one you would have agreed to this!

I would love to know these writers, because you yourself said a ghost is a spirit out of a body(meaning a dead person), how then can this equal to a spirit itself?

Scholar8200:
It is equally plain that the word humble was mentioned!
Since you accept Jesus' Words do you believe this:
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


It means the heart must be dealt with not just the external actions! From where you got that, did you see this:
Matthew 5:6
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
If yes, then you may ask how can a heart become pure?
and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith
Acts 15:9 Has your heart thus being purified as Cornelius' was by faith in Jesus Christ or are you just looking for points with which to argue?


What is Mohammed's role in (i) God's promise to Abraham (ii) the New Covenant?

. Of course I believe u must be spiritually born again,but what does it mean to be born again,so let's ask jesus...luke 13 vs 3"unless u repent u shall perish",mark 1vs 15,matt 6:15,jesus says,"forgive others and God will forgive u",simple and straight forward,jesus is telling for u to be born again,repent of ur sins,to earn God's forgiveness,forgive others,for u to enter the kingdom of God,he says matt 5vs 20"verily I tell u,except ur righteoness exceeds the pharises....u shall nt enter the kingdom of heaven"...simple straight forward to enter heaven u must be righteous without sin...the most important commandment of all,if I should ask christians,they will say,belive in God in three person,the father,the son and holy spirt...but let us ask jesus,his most important commandment,he say "hear o isreal ur God our lord is one"mark 12vs 29,simple plain english...but ur preachers say no,that God is three in one,they say no man cannot just repent,he must believe in the original sin,that God died for him...did jesus said that? Did he?...ur preachers are programming u,my brother deprogram urself...God says in the quran 5:75"christ the son of mary was only an apostle of God,many were the apostle that passed before,his mother was a woman of truth,they both ate daily food,see how We clear Our verses to them,but see how they are deluded from the truth"...God is telling u,don't allow ur preachers be delude u from the truth...jesus never said he was God,he never mentioned original sin,he never said I will die for ur sins...the white man brot this lies and programmed u with it,its time to deprogramme urself my brother...may Allah help u

adewalker:
. In this john 16 u jst quoted,u neglected to tell us how jesus ever mentions the holy spirit here? Jesus says in the beginning of that previous verse,' I have many things to say unto u,bt ye cannot bear them now'that is his desciples cannot understand them now,they haven't got the capacity,then he continues,'how be it when He the spirit of truth comes,he will guide u to all truth,for Him shall not speak of himself,for whatsoever thing shall he hear,he shall speak,he will tell u of things to come,he shall glorify me' what's all this he?jesus is clearly reffering to the comming of a man,that will guide mankind to all truth,8 masculine pronouns used,jesus was emphasing the coming of mohammad,the coming of a man!,this is clearly in plain english,but the christians don't listen,they said no jesus is talking about a ghost,so I ask u christians one thing,u know jesus said he styl has many things to say,bt the people aint ready to bear them,that when the spirit of truth comes he will tell them those MANY things...now answer me,if say jesus was talking about a ghost,tell me one thing the holy ghost has told you that jesus already didn't mention!,just one thing the holy ghost has told christiandom that jesus already didn't mention,just give me one,if u are indeed truthful

I was praying like 3 months ago, and the holy ghost told me to pray for pakistan, and a few hours later a targeted bomb blast was averted. many others. the gift of the spirit is better experienced not told. get in the flow

lexiconkabir:
"they did not kill him, they did not crusify him, it was made to look so to them, all they follow is CONJECTURE........."(Q4:157) during the most critical life time of jesus, ALL(i mean all) his disciples fled to the upper room, none of them saw what happened, not until when jesus went to them and said peace be upon you, and they were scared and he said i am alive touch me for a ghost has no have flesh and bone(meaning he never died)

1. They went to the upper room after Jesus ascension not during His trial!
2. Peter saw the trial and John,Mary and other disciples etc were at the foot of the Cross. Matthew 27:55, John 19:25-27 Apart from the twelve, there were many that followed Jesus. Luke 10:1, Acts 1:15 etc
3. What meaneth these:
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing

I would love to know these writers, because you yourself said a ghost is a spirit out of a body(meaning a dead person), how then can this equal to a spirit itself?

Luke 23:46
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

adewalker:
. Of course I believe u must be spiritually born again,but what does it mean to be born again,so let's ask jesus.

Sure! Let's go to where HE used that word shall we?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is[b] born of the Spirit[/b].
John 3:5-8 While the man wondered He went forward to tell him how this will be done:

John 3:16,18
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Before you rejoice it doesn't say you accept Him as a mere prophet! Note that!

..luke 13 vs 3"unless u repent u shall perish",mark 1vs 15,matt 6:15,jesus says,"forgive others and God will forgive u",simple and straight forward,jesus is telling for u to be born again,repent of ur sins,

Not only repent,
and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.Mark 1;15.

What is the Gospel?
John 3:16,18
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

to earn God's forgiveness,forgive others

Interesting!!! Learn to consider all that is said about a topic in the Bible before making claims. That place you quoted is not referring to atonement for the soul through good works (Lev. 17:11), there's nothing like earning forgiveness! :
46 and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day
47 And that repentance [with a view to and as the condition of] forgiveness of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Luke 24:46,47

,for u to enter the kingdom of God,he says matt 5vs 20"verily I tell u,except ur righteoness exceeds the pharises....u shall nt enter the kingdom of heaven"...simple straight forward to enter heaven u must be righteous without sin...

Yes and it takes true repentance (not a daily confession of sins with no genuine desire and burden to be free) and faith in Jesus for the highlighted to be possible! John 3:3 also said we need to be born again to enter the kingdom!

the most important commandment of all,if I should ask christians,they will say,belive in God in three person,the father,the son and holy spirt.

that's your prejudice in summary!

John 6:28,29
28 They said therefore unto him, `What may we do that we may work the works of God?'
29 Jesus answered and said to them, `This is the work of God, that ye may believe in him whom He did send.'


John 9:35,37
35 Jesus heard that they cast him forth without, and having found him, he said to him, `Dost thou believe in the Son of God?'
37 And Jesus said to him, `Thou hast both seen him, and he who is speaking with thee is he;'

,that God died for him...did jesus said that? Did he?.

YES:
28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, that for many is being poured out -- to remission of sins;
Matthew 26:28

28 even as the Son of Man did not come to be ministered to, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.'
Matthew 20:28 etc

In agreement with Isaiah 53:11
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied:
by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many;
for he shall bear their iniquities.

..ur preachers are programming u,my brother deprogram urself..

?

.God says in the quran 5:75"christ the son of mary was only an apostle of God,many were the apostle that passed before,his mother was a woman of truth,they both ate daily food,see how We clear Our verses to them,but see how they are deluded from the truth"...God is telling u,don't allow ur preachers be delude u from the truth...jesus never said he was God,he never mentioned original sin,he never said I will die for ur sins...the white man brot this lies and programmed u with it,its time to deprogramme urself my brother...may Allah help u

28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, that for many is being poured out -- to remission of sins;
Matthew 26:28

28 even as the Son of Man did not come to be ministered to, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.'
Matthew 20:28 etc

In agreement with Isaiah 53:11
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied:
by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many;
for he shall bear their iniquities.

@scholar2800, (1)yes they all fled, see mark14:50"and they forsook him and fled..." meaning they did not see what happened, they followed hearsay, conjecture as the quran described it.............(2)jesus cried out into your hands i commend my spirit(meaning it is still in him), and having said thus he gave up the ghost(the spirit is now out) how was this used interchangeably? when spirit meant he still have it in him and giving up the ghost meant the spirit is out. No Englishman that has english as his mother tongue will say "he gave up the spirit" it has always and will always be "he gave up the ghost"

Scholar8200:
Sure! Let's go to where HE used that word shall we?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is[b] born of the Spirit[/b].
John 3:5-8 While the man wondered He went forward to tell him how this will be done:

John 3:16,18
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Before you rejoice it doesn't say you accept Him as a mere prophet! Note that!

Not only repent,
and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.Mark 1;15.

What is the Gospel?
John 3:16,18
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Interesting!!! Learn to consider all that is said about a topic in the Bible before making claims. That place you quoted is not referring to atonement for the soul through good works (Lev. 17:11), there's nothing like earning forgiveness! :
46 and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day
47 And that repentance [with a view to and as the condition of] forgiveness of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Luke 24:46,47

Yes and it takes true repentance (not a daily confession of sins with no genuine desire and burden to be free) and faith in Jesus for the highlighted to be possible! John 3:3 also said we need to be born again to enter the kingdom!

that's your prejudice in summary!

John 6:28,29
28 They said therefore unto him, `What may we do that we may work the works of God?'
29 Jesus answered and said to them, `This is the work of God, that ye may believe in him whom He did send.'


John 9:35,37
35 Jesus heard that they cast him forth without, and having found him, he said to him, `Dost thou believe in the Son of God?'
37 And Jesus said to him, `Thou hast both seen him, and he who is speaking with thee is he;'



YES:
28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, that for many is being poured out -- to remission of sins;
Matthew 26:28

28 even as the Son of Man did not come to be ministered to, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.'
Matthew 20:28 etc

In agreement with Isaiah 53:11
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied:
by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many;
for he shall bear their iniquities.

?



28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, that for many is being poured out -- to remission of sins;
Matthew 26:28

28 even as the Son of Man did not come to be ministered to, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.'
Matthew 20:28 etc

In agreement with Isaiah 53:11
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied:
by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many;
for he shall bear their iniquities.

. Now wen u are quoting the bible for me,always give me the quotes of jesus,don't give me the words of paul or historians in the bible,all I need is the words of jesus,the jhn 3:16 u quoted above as the gospel of jesus,jesus didn't even said those words,jesus never said it,now ur christian scholars called it a fabrication,so they threw it out of their bible,even the jehovah witnessess threw it out,cos its not in the acient manuscripts,jesus never said those words...so anytime u want to quote the bible to me,pls give me the words of jesus,and its very easy now to get exactly wat jesus said,most modern bible always print jesus words in red,so if u want to quote anytyn from the bible,always quote the ones in red,those are jesus words....so let's us ask jesus the most important part of the gospel,shall we?so jesus answers...mrk 12vs29"hear o isreal ur God our lord is ONE",he never said believe in a begotten son,jesus never claimed the only begotten son,NEVER,in the bible they asked jesus,how do we pray,so jesus replies "OUR FATHER,who hath in heaven.."He didn't say my father,he didn't say God beget him,ur preachers say that,rather he said,God is the father of everybody...that for u to be saved,u have to beg this Father to forgive ur sins and that u repent...repentance means to leave something totally,so in jesus message all he talked about was belive in God,repent from ur sin,be righteuous...then u will get God's kingdom...no where in the bible does jesus say I am the begotten son of God,absolutely no where,ur preachers made that up,and now ur scholars have thrown it out as a fabrication...that it wasn't seen by in acient manuscript...and yes for ur infomation,these scholars also claim to have the holy spirit,so except u want to say the holy spirit is taking u in different directions,but jesus never said beget,walah jesus would never say such a blasphemous statement...begetten is an animal act...it belongs literally to poultry animals,God never begets

adewalker:
Now u say the jesus of the bible is different from the quran...u know my brother...I should be telling u that,in islam we believe jesus will come back again during the last days,u know if jesus was to appear then,let's say u recognise,if u were to start calling him 'jesus christ',he won't even answer u,becos that's not his name,his mother didn't name him 'jesus',his mother named him 'eisho' 'ishur' in jesus own aramaic language,which is a dialect of the arabic language,in arabic he is called 'isa',in the modern hebrew is name is translated as 'eoshua' or yeshua,so I wonder where u got 'jesus' the name 'messiah' simply means the annointed in hebrew language,in the arabic language it is called 'mesi',again how u people translated it to christ is beyond me...the hebrew and arabic are the same language with differrect dialect,the jews say shalom alaykum,the arab say salam alaykun,u can see there language is practically the same,that is becos they all speak ibrahim language,now if anyone is gettyn 'jesus' wrong,it is u the christians...jesus ddint claim the son of God for himself alone,when he tot u how to pray he said say "our father,who hath in heaven",he is telling u God is everyone's father,since he created everytyn,he doesn't mean God actually beget a son!,to beget is an animal act,and God is far above that,in the verse u quoted,when they were about stoning him,jesus said 'is not written in ur law,that I have named yee Gods' he was quoting the psalm,where God tells the children of isreal he has named them Gods,so jesus was telling them,y will stone me for saying I am a son of God,when God himself already told u he has named u Gods,but this doesn't mean they were God,it simply a meteraphorical way of saying if u are Godly u are son of God,u are Godly,same way if u are evil,they say u are a devil,or son of the devil,it doesn't mean u are God or the devil...yes jesus said is his the truth,the way and life,am asking u a question wen moses was alive who was the way? The answer is moses,every prophet in his time,his the way,the truth and life,because if u want salvation u must follow them,for the people of lot,who was the way? Of course lot,and becos they didn't follow lot,God destoryed them,for noah poeple,who was they way?the answer is noah,becos they didn't follow him,God destroyed them,same thing for mohammad,he is the last prophet,whoever doesn't follow him,God will punish the person in hell...that's salvation as it was prophesied in old testament

Will this your Jesus come back as a Jew or an Arab?

Medicis:
Will this your Jesus come back as a Jew or an Arab?

. Jew is a jew,and as such I don't expect him to come back any other than that

Muslims can be so dull... They actually think when we say Jesus is the Son of God, that God had s*x with Mary and begat Jesus. The Sonship of Jesus is a physical manifestation of the father in flesh. JOHN1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2  He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3  All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
 
John uses the Greek word logos to describe Jesus "in the beginning," or before creation and time began. Logos means word, but specifically it means the spoken word or a statement. Jesus is God's spoken word,
John then explains that the Word (Jesus) was "with" God and "was" God. This statement yields two important conclusions regarding Jesus and the Trinity: Jesus is God and existed from the beginning as God, yet Jesus' existence is somehow distinct from God the Father. Jesus was "with" God and "was" God at the same time. This is the mystery of the Trinity: all three Persons in the Godhead are One God and yet all are distinct from one another.

Moving to verse 3, John says that it was the Word (Him) that created all things. From this statement, we begin to see why Jesus is called the "Word" by John. Consider these facts we learn from John's Gospel and elsewhere in Scripture:

First, we know from scripture that God the Father is Spirit (John 4:24), meaning He doesn't exist in physical form. So, there is no physical substance to God the Father. The Creation cannot experience the Father as He truly is, since we are bound to a physical dimension yet He is not physical.

Secondly, we know that God's Spirit is likewise invisible (John 3:6-. He can only be known by observing His work in the Creation.

On the other hand, Jesus is the member of the Godhead responsible for all physical matter. As John said, all things were made by and through Jesus. Paul says the same thing in Col 1:15-17. 

More over, Paul teaches in Colossians that Jesus is the "image of the invisible God." Therefore, He is the only Person in the Godhead Who has entered into and become a part of the physical creation. Jesus can be seen in a physical sense, because He is the One Who entered into the Creation and become a part of it (i.e., became incarnate).

Therefore, Jesus is the One within the Trinity Who is associated with Creation, both as its source and as an ambassador of the Godhead to that creation.

Next, consider how the Creation itself was established in Genesis 1. Genesis 1 teaches that the world was created by the spoken word of God (note the repeating phrase in Genesis 1, "Then God said...". So when God the Father determined to created the universe and everything in it, He "spoke" it into existence. But as John said in verse 3, Jesus was the One who made all things, therefore we can say that Jesus was God's logos, or spoken Word.

We can begin to understand this partnership (at least to some degree) by drawing an analogy to how our own thoughts and words reach into the physical word. When we desire to command something to happen in the world around us, we must first conceive the idea in our minds. No one can see our thoughts. They are invisible, yet they certainly exist. Without our thoughts, we could purpose to do nothing at all.

If our thoughts are to become visible in some way, they must move from the invisible realm of our mind and into the physical world. The progression from invisible to visible requires we transfer our invisible thoughts into a spoken command. The brain communicates our thoughts to our mouth where it becomes logos: spoken words.

Once the spoken word leaves our mouth, it enters the physical world and yields its intended effect. This simple analogy helps explain how God the Father worked with God the Son (i.e., the Word) to establish Creation.

This is John's meaning when he says that Jesus is the Word. He meant that Jesus is the physical manifestation of God the Father, just as a spoken word is the physical manifestation of our inner thoughts. Until Jesus took action and created the universe, there was no physical reality to God's presence. But when God "spoke" (i.e., when Jesus took action), the Creation came into existence.

Later, Jesus arrived in Person to meet with His creation, and as Jesus spoke His words to His disciples, He fulfilled the Father's purpose by providing a physical representation of the Godhead to His creation.  Hebrews says it this way:

 
Heb. 1:1  God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
Heb. 1:2  in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
Heb. 1:3  And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power...
 

Paul reiterates this same thought in Colossians when he says:

 
Col. 1:15  He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col. 1:16  For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him.
 

Jesus is the Word because He was the means through which the Father brought all physical reality into existence and because He is the One Who represents the Father's invisible nature and character to that creation. Just as your spoken word is the physical manifestation of your thoughts and personality, Jesus is the "Word" of the invisible God to His creation. This is why Jesus said, "before Abraham was born, I AM!"(John 8: 58) because he existed as the WORD but that same WORD now became Jesus(the WORD became flesh)

Medicis:
Will this your Jesus come back as a Jew or an Arab?

adewalker:
. Jew is a jew,and as such I don't expect him to come back any other than that

You guys obviously don't know anything about the supernatural of christianity.
Jesus the Jew died on the cross, the resurrected Jesus is neither a Jew nor a Gentile like you.
He is a new kind of man that never existed before, the kind we believers will become eventually.

Medicis:
Muslims can be so dull... They actually think when we say Jesus is the Son of God, that God had s*x with Mary and begat Jesus. The Sonship of Jesus is a physical manifestation of the father in flesh. JOHN1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2  He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3  All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
 
John uses the Greek word logos to describe Jesus "in the beginning," or before creation and time began. Logos means word, but specifically it means the spoken word or a statement. Jesus is God's spoken word,
John then explains that the Word (Jesus) was "with" God and "was" God. This statement yields two important conclusions regarding Jesus and the Trinity: Jesus is God and existed from the beginning as God, yet Jesus' existence is somehow distinct from God the Father. Jesus was "with" God and "was" God at the same time. This is the mystery of the Trinity: all three Persons in the Godhead are One God and yet all are distinct from one another.

Moving to verse 3, John says that it was the Word (Him) that created all things. From this statement, we begin to see why Jesus is called the "Word" by John. Consider these facts we learn from John's Gospel and elsewhere in Scripture:

First, we know from scripture that God the Father is Spirit (John 4:24), meaning He doesn't exist in physical form. So, there is no physical substance to God the Father. The Creation cannot experience the Father as He truly is, since we are bound to a physical dimension yet He is not physical.

Secondly, we know that God's Spirit is likewise invisible (John 3:6-. He can only be known by observing His work in the Creation.

On the other hand, Jesus is the member of the Godhead responsible for all physical matter. As John said, all things were made by and through Jesus. Paul says the same thing in Col 1:15-17. 

More over, Paul teaches in Colossians that Jesus is the "image of the invisible God." Therefore, He is the only Person in the Godhead Who has entered into and become a part of the physical creation. Jesus can be seen in a physical sense, because He is the One Who entered into the Creation and become a part of it (i.e., became incarnate).

Therefore, Jesus is the One within the Trinity Who is associated with Creation, both as its source and as an ambassador of the Godhead to that creation.

Next, consider how the Creation itself was established in Genesis 1. Genesis 1 teaches that the world was created by the spoken word of God (note the repeating phrase in Genesis 1, "Then God said...". So when God the Father determined to created the universe and everything in it, He "spoke" it into existence. But as John said in verse 3, Jesus was the One who made all things, therefore we can say that Jesus was God's logos, or spoken Word.

We can begin to understand this partnership (at least to some degree) by drawing an analogy to how our own thoughts and words reach into the physical word. When we desire to command something to happen in the world around us, we must first conceive the idea in our minds. No one can see our thoughts. They are invisible, yet they certainly exist. Without our thoughts, we could purpose to do nothing at all.

If our thoughts are to become visible in some way, they must move from the invisible realm of our mind and into the physical world. The progression from invisible to visible requires we transfer our invisible thoughts into a spoken command. The brain communicates our thoughts to our mouth where it becomes logos: spoken words.

Once the spoken word leaves our mouth, it enters the physical world and yields its intended effect. This simple analogy helps explain how God the Father worked with God the Son (i.e., the Word) to establish Creation.

This is John's meaning when he says that Jesus is the Word. He meant that Jesus is the physical manifestation of God the Father, just as a spoken word is the physical manifestation of our inner thoughts. Until Jesus took action and created the universe, there was no physical reality to God's presence. But when God "spoke" (i.e., when Jesus took action), the Creation came into existence.

Later, Jesus arrived in Person to meet with His creation, and as Jesus spoke His words to His disciples, He fulfilled the Father's purpose by providing a physical representation of the Godhead to His creation.  Hebrews says it this way:

 
Heb. 1:1  God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
Heb. 1:2  in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
Heb. 1:3  And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power...
 

Paul reiterates this same thought in Colossians when he says:

 
Col. 1:15  He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col. 1:16  For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him.
 

Jesus is the Word because He was the means through which the Father brought all physical reality into existence and because He is the One Who represents the Father's invisible nature and character to that creation. Just as your spoken word is the physical manifestation of your thoughts and personality, Jesus is the "Word" of the invisible God to His creation. This is why Jesus said, "before Abraham was born, I AM!"(John 8: 58) because he existed as the WORD but that same WORD now became Jesus(the WORD became flesh)

. So from ur statement,u say jesus is God's word meaning anytime God say sumtyn,it is jesus that actually construct it?I hope I got u right?this I wat u tell me...but let us pls ask jesus if he has any power...jhn 5vs30"I can of my self do nothing.."Jesus is telling u clearly he has no power of his own,time and time again,when he performs any miracles,he will say this not my doing,bt my father's doing,this is in ur bible,where does jesus say he is God in three,absolutely no where? That book of john u are quoting,all ur scholars agree it wasn't even written by john,no one knows who wrote them,because in the book of john,u will find words like this "and john said to jesus,and jesus said to john"if it were john, it would have been,"and I said to jesus,and jesus said to me",this is clearly telling u someone different is writing the story....I believe u christians say u follow the teachings of christ...so tell me then,where did jesus say God is three in one,show me where jesus said so...absolutely no where will u find such a statement attributed to jesus,becos such a statement will be blaspshemous,and the prophets of God never say anytyn apart from the truth,rather jesus says...mark 12vs29 that God is ONE,he didn't say father,son,holy ghost...bt u christians insist on following the words of anonymous writers instead of the direct teachings of jesus,its amazing that jesus is saying something and u christians are doing the opposite,yet u claim to follow him,its jst amazing

adewalker:
. So from ur statement,u say jesus is God's word meaning anytime God say sumtyn,it is jesus that actually construct it?I hope I got u right?this I wat u tell me...but let us pls ask jesus if he has any power...jhn 5vs30"I can of my self do nothing.."Jesus is telling u clearly he has no power of his own,time and time again,when he performs any miracles,he will say this not my doing,bt my father's doing,this is in ur bible,where does jesus say he is God in three,absolutely no where? That book of john u are quoting,all ur scholars agree it wasn't even written by john,no one knows who wrote them,because in the book of john,u will find words like this "and john said to jesus,and jesus said to john"if it were john, it would have been,"and I said to jesus,and jesus said to me",this is clearly telling u someone different is writing the story....I believe u christians say u follow the teachings of christ...so tell me then,where did jesus say God is three in one,show me where jesus said so...absolutely no where will u find such a statement attributed to jesus,becos such a statement will be blaspshemous,and the prophets of God never say anytyn apart from the truth,rather jesus says...mark 12vs29 that God is ONE,he didn't say father,son,holy ghost...bt u christians insist on following the words of anonymous writers instead of the direct teachings of jesus,its amazing that jesus is saying something and u christians are doing the opposite,yet u claim to follow him,its jst amazing

Now now, it isn't every christian that believes in the trinity. I like many other christian believe God and Jesus are seperate being - not one being. Jesus said so himself that the father is greater than him.