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Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Jeromejnr(m): 1:51pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
dmandy: BTW. When Jesus said on the cross to that thief "Today you shall be with me in paradise". Well, that day, did Jesus go to heaven or hell? If you can't answer this question then you don't even know what we have been talking about all along. That's scripture. |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Nobody: 1:51pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
Sounds to me like you believe in history... think we are on a similar page. So for you to understand somethings in the bible you need to go to history... why then do we differ? why then do we quarrel amongst ourselves. As for you the sin that lead unto death.. you have given me example. Pray thee tell me one example of sin that leads not unto death. And I will believe you and your video. Just one. Jeromejnr: |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Nobody: 1:55pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
Jeromejnr: Yes he went to hell. I never doubted that... read my post. I believe you when you said a good part of hell (I only pointed out to you that some who hold similar view as yours don't). That good part of hell is what I chose to call purgatory (stemming from what Christ does for the people found therein... purge or cleanse (you actually acknowledged that)) My confusion is you saying that the place is now closed for business. No customers no more. Where did the bible say that? |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Jeromejnr(m): 2:01pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
dmandy: Well I know one in real life. But I want our discussions to be based only on scriptures. (Kenneth Hagin even shared an experience of a vision the Lord gave him on that). Cut long story short 1. Angel Gabriel speaking to Daniel on the apostacy of how many will fall away in the last days.. 2. Hebrews 6:6 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 3. Those who receive the mark of the beast. e.t.c. |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by lepasharon(f): 2:04pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
plaetton: ![]() 2 Likes
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Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Jeromejnr(m): 2:09pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
dmandy: Becuase the cleansing one needed to be able to go to heaven has already been done. How 1. By Jesus blood. 2. Jesus told His disciples "You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you." John 15:3. So whats the point of cleansing in "purgatory" again. That's why now it says "It is appointed that after a man dies, next is judgment" no cleansing or whatever. Look at this scriptures: When you ascended to the heights, you led a crowd of captives. Ps 68:18. Therefore it says, "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN." 9(Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?… Eph 4:8 Captives where those in what you call purgatory. 1 Like |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Nobody: 2:22pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
Jeromejnr: Thanks for taking time to explain all these. Surely when Christ ascended he liberated the captives and gave gifts to all men (mind you both the rebellious) according to that passage. What gift could have been given to the rebellious. Again what was Paul still suffering for and saying he is suffering them to make up for Christ death. Did Christ death demand another attachment. How do you explain this 'Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church'? You will agree with me that something definitely is not lacking in Christ afflictions only that sometimes people choose to be rebellious. Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them. Ps 68:18 |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Jeromejnr(m): 2:37pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
dmandy: The gifts talked about there was not for those who where been taking up to heaven but for the Christians on the earth. This gifts where ministry gifts. Look at verse 11&12 of that Eph 4. For eqping of saint for the work the Lord has for them on the earth. Secondly, Paul suffered or labored he said till Christ be formed in them. The goal of Christianity is for us to be Christlike. If you noticed he constantly had a problem with Christians being fleshly and rebellious. At one point he said "I am afraid for you, lest I have labored in vain". What is lacking in Christ afflictions is: 1. Remember we are the body of Christ. We are His hands and feet. 2. One part has been fulfilled by Jesus I.e providing salvation. Now our own part (what is lacking) is our own ministry or contribution to bring souls to that salvation. We are called to suffer together with the Lord carrying our cross. And when we are involved in our own ministry there is a particular suffering to it or we call it carrying your own cross. When we as the body of Christ do that, we are fulfilling that which is lacking. 1 Like |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by italo: 2:37pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
@Jeromejnr, The people in Rev 6:10 who knew that God hadn't avenged their blood on the inhabitants of the earth... Were they also in your 'Abraham's bossom' or 'prison' or 'paradise' which you said has vanished? Or were they in heaven, in which you said people are unaware of happenings on earth? Or were they in another place that you are yet to manufacture? ![]() 3 Likes |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Nobody: 2:43pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
Jeromejnr: Now if I am saved (by death of Christ on the cross) of course I am in friendship with Him having accepted him. And if for some reason I fail short of fulfilling that which is lacking at any particular point. Do you think I am guilty of sin? |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by BOWOTO(m): 2:46pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
clans:Pls I'd like to know how you checked. |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Nobody: 2:48pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
italo: My brother is painful when these men see the truth and try to cover it. He admitted that hell 'was' of two parts (suffering part and prison part) but have vanished into thin air. ![]() They won't believe the truth, yet they won't let you rest who believe... 1 Like |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Nobody: 2:50pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
Why don't you talk to God about it? That should be a good check if it bothers you. I'm sure He will clarify it. Or better still 'put Him to a test, He allows that. Mal 3:10 BOWOTO: |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Jeromejnr(m): 2:51pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
italo: Haha. 1. That scripture is deeper than you tink. Remember how God told Cain that his brothers blood was crying from the ground? Ponder on that. (Go through that scripture you would see they even talked of their blood). 2. We see the story of a woman with a child and a dragon (Rev 12). Now if I were to ask you you would obviously say it was Mary and the child was Jesus. (True.) But if you noticed that event came after the Seventh and final Trumpet. So what is my point? Because the Martyrs were seen in Rev 6 crying out vengeance doesn't mean that's what is going on In heaven right now. The saints in heaven will on the last day come to know happenings on the earth (that's when Jesus comes back). Because they will all be judged and giving rewards and also receive their new bodies. And then in turn those appointed will help in judging angels and the dead both from hell and those who were Still alive on earth at that time. (These are all in scriptures and not far fetched). Do your own studies and don't let any man deceive you with religion. But for now, don't waste you time praying to any saint. 1 Like |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Jeromejnr(m): 2:52pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
dmandy: So enlighten us with scriptures, What is the truth?. 1 Like |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Nobody: 2:56pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
Jeromejnr: You skipped my question in #41. Sorry because I used the term think ok did the bible say that I am guilty of sin? dmandy: |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by italo: 2:57pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
OLAADEGBU: Below is your own quote in the other thread:
I also gave Rev 6:10 where people are aware of what is happening on earth... Yet you want Jesus to come to earth again and tell you that Saints are aware of and can hear our prayers on earth... ![]() |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Jeromejnr(m): 3:00pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
dmandy: Now this is an issue. Not being able to divide the word of truth. Now you said God allows us to put Him to the test. But when Satan tempted Jesus to jump from the cliff, what was Jesus response? My point: Yes in some areas we are allowed to test but not all. This brings us back to our discussion of how you said killing an ant is a sin but not unto death. And also that purgatory issue. This is why one needs the Holy Spirit in interpreting scriptures. 1 Like |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by italo: 3:04pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
Jeromejnr: You didn't answer my question. Where are those people in Rev 6:10? And please, for anything you say, show me where the Bible says it. |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Nobody: 3:04pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
Jeromejnr: Ok God allows in some but not in all. But He does allow it abi. Continue. Didn't the bible say thou shall not kill...didn't the bible say he looked at all that He created and they were good. Why did God save the ants on that great destruction day of Noah since they were useless and should be killed. kill is kill |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Jeromejnr(m): 3:12pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
dmandy: Don't understand the question. But you need to understand Christianity is of the heart. Even if one mistakenly commits a sin that person cannot be condemned or pronounced guilty. Because God sees your heart that you ate making effort stop practising that sin. But if you willingly go on sining after the knowledge of the truth like the apostle says then when that person dies in that sin, it's obvious the person loved the sin more than he did God. And as a result Jesus said "many will say unto me that day Lord, Lord...." Those where Christians not unbleleivers. So if there was a purgatory and they can see the spritual realm and the hell That awaits them if they are not cleansed. Why don't they just believe and get cleansed. why will there still be some that Jesus will still say depart from Me on that day? Or are people that stubborn that after seeing hell they will still want to go in there. Thinking logically now. 1 Like |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by BOWOTO(m): 3:12pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
dmandy:I talk to God and he answers me, me I don't know of the saints you're talking about. 1 Like |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by italo: 3:19pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
Jeromejnr: Jeromejnr: So suddenly, you're making a U-turn... Some hours ago, no believer in heaven could be permitted to know happenings on earth...because heaven is a perfect place. Now, saints in heaven can know happenings on earth...i guess heaven is no more perfect abi? ![]() |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Jeromejnr(m): 3:20pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
italo: Okay Sir, Actually, you guys should first of all provide scriptures for praying to saints then we can start from there. If you even want to talk of those Martyrs, then there is a diff BTW praying to them and them Crying out in that scripture. Did they say anyone was praying to them that's why they were crying out. That was a one time event. You mean to tell me that instead of enjoying the glories of heaven that right now they are busy crying. And look at verse eleven of that scripture. What does that tell you. They are the souls that where recently beheaded in the tribulation and just made heaven that was why white robes were given to them. Or have they been in heaven all this time and were naked?. 1 Like |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Jeromejnr(m): 3:22pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
italo: Comprhension broda, comprehension. I think ive answered your question. |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by italo: 3:22pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
Jeromejnr: Who told you purgatory is for unbelievers? |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Jeromejnr(m): 3:23pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
italo: Your broda up there told me. And show us where purgatory is in the bible. |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Jeromejnr(m): 3:32pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
dmandy: Lol funny dude. Your own premise is based on assumptions. |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Nobody: 3:48pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
I did? Why lie? I never said its for unbelievers. I rather equated it to what you called 'good part of hell' where spirits who still needs cleansing are cleansed by Jesus. Below is your post about the good part of hell. Jeromejnr: Jeromejnr: |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by italo: 3:50pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
Jeromejnr: Quote where he said purgatory is for unbelievers. And we Catholics don't believe that every word used in Christianity must be explicitly written in the Bible. It is you who believes that that is finding it hard defending your proclamations with the Bible. E.g: where does the Bible say that people in heaven are unaware of happenings on earth? Where does the Bible say that purgatory must be written verbatim in the bible for it to be true? |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by Nobody: 3:53pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
Jeromejnr:What did I assume? That God said thou shall not kill? (What did God say you should not kill? Why assume its only human beings if its not explicitly put. Now who is assuming. Did I also assume that God saw that all He created were good.God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning--the sixth day. Gen 1:31. He never said all (except the ant were good) unless you assume so? |
Re: Can Mary Hear Our Prayers? by italo: 3:57pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
Jeromejnr: I'm confused. But you said no believers in heaven can know the happenings on earth. Were these martyrs in heaven unbelievers? ![]() To answer your question: I don't know when they got to heaven. You're the one who told me they had just got to heaven. 1 Like 1 Share |
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