italo:
@Jeromejnr,

The people in Rev 6:10 who knew that God hadn't avenged their blood on the inhabitants of the earth...

Were they also in your 'Abraham's bossom' or 'prison' or 'paradise' which you said has vanished?

Or were they in heaven, in which you said people are unaware of happenings on earth?

Or were they in another place that you are yet to manufacture?

Lol @manufacture

Isn't that the name and method of the God Games ?

Jeromejnr:


Lol funny dude.

Your own premise is based on assumptions.

What about my question?

dmandy:

Now if I am saved (by death of Christ on the cross) of course I am in friendship with Him having accepted him. And if for some reason I fail short of fulfilling that which is lacking at any particular point. Do you think I am guilty of sin?

italo:


I'm confused. But you said no believers in heaven can know the happenings on earth.

Were these martyrs in heaven unbelievers?



To answer your question: I don't know when they got to heaven. You're the one who told me they had just got to heaven.

Stop being silly and embrace wisdom.

When God said He will wipe away all tears from their eyes where will that happen. On earth or in heaven? You just got to heaven in the presence of God, you've not even received your robes during the tribulation and there is a whole lot of activity going on there. Will you be blind to it and not know what is going on. won't the saints be prepared to ride with Christ on their horses back to earth for the Millennial Reign?

And you just said you Catholics go outside scriptures, can you see where your error greatly lies. In Doctrines of men.

Why can't you just stick to scriptures. You see you guys don't even have proof of what you believe in. SMH.

achinaboy:
I wonder if they do,because my father is also a saint,but died when I was eleven,despite all my prayer a complain,he did nothing

The same can be said for my mum o, at a point I come dey wonder whether she forgot she has peeps on this side, till I discovered it was all jonzing.

dmandy:


What about my question?

calm down I am answering you guys.

dmandy:
I did? Why lie? I never said its for unbelievers. I rather equated it to what you called 'good part of hell' where spirits who still needs cleansing are cleansed by Jesus. Below is your post about the good part of hell.

Don't be alarmed.

The usually start to tell blatant lies when their falsehood is exposed.

It's just one of their many tricks.

Watch out for more.

italo:


Quote where he said purgatory is for unbelievers.

And we Catholics don't believe that every word used in Christianity must be explicitly written in the Bible.

It is you who believes that that is finding it hard defending your proclamations with the Bible.

E.g: where does the Bible say that people in heaven are unaware of happenings on earth?

Where does the Bible say that purgatory must be written verbatim in the bible for it to be true?

Utter confusion.

dmandy:
I did? Why lie? I never said its for unbelievers. I rather equated it to what you called 'good part of hell' where spirits who still needs cleansing are cleansed by Jesus. Below is your post about the good part of hell.

Yes you did when you told me on Jesus leading the Captivity captives and giving rewards that unbelievers also are rewarded. You asked me what rewards they got.

italo:


Quote where he said purgatory is for unbelievers.

And we Catholics don't believe that every word used in Christianity must be explicitly written in the Bible.

It is you who believes that that is finding it hard defending your proclamations with the Bible.

E.g: where does the Bible say that people in heaven are unaware of happenings on earth?

Where does the Bible say that purgatory must be written verbatim in the bible for it to be true?

So Christians in heaven know Buhari is the president and they are talking about it?

So they know one of their loved ones is sick with cancer and as a result instead of enjoying peace in heaven they are greived and busy crying out to God on His Throne.

The Bible says "Jesus lives to make intercession for us and not the saints"

Jeromejnr:


Yes you did when you told me on Jesus leading the Captivity captives and giving rewards that unbelievers also are rewarded. You asked me what rewards they got.

Waoh!!! that was what the scripture meant according to your own understanding. By the way what was your answer to the question...what reward did the rebellious get in Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them. Ps 68:18

Last time I checked, you avoided the question and others that followed. SMH

italo:


Don't be alarmed.

The usually start to tell blatant lies when their falsehood is exposed.

It's just one of their many tricks.

Watch out for more.

Why two of you dey console yourselves. So lets see If I am lying.

Surely when Christ ascended he liberated the captives and gave gifts to all men (mind you both the rebellious) according to that passage. What gift could have been given to the rebellious.

Thats from your brother.

dmandy:

Waoh!!! that was what the scripture meant according to your own understanding. By the way what was your answer to the question...what reward did the rebellious get in Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them. Ps 68:18

Last time I checked, you avoided the question and others that followed. SMH

I really don't understand what you just said now. I think your confusing yourself.

Simplify the question.

Okay! I get.

You are trying to change mouth.

And what question did I avoid? Let me answer you.

dmandy:

What did I assume? That God said thou shall not kill? (What did God say you should not kill? Why assume its only human beings if its not explicitly put. Now who is assuming.

Did I also assume that God saw that all He created were good.God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning--the sixth day. Gen 1:31. He never said all (except the ant were good) unless you assume so?

You assumed killing an ant is sin.

Just like you assume out of scriptures that there is a purgatory.

Therefore He is able also to save to the uttermost (completely, perfectly, finally, and for all time and eternity) those who come to God through Him, since He is always living to make petition to God and intercede with Him and intervene for them.Hebrews 7:25

Who is there to condemn [us]? Will Christ Jesus (the Messiah), Who died, or rather Who was raised from the dead, Who is at the right hand of God actually pleading as He intercedes for us?
Romans 8:34

And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby), that He may remain with you forever—
John 14:16

From the above, we can objectively state that there is but One Who is our High Priest and Advocate before the Father-The Lord Jesus Christ!!!

He that is able to receive this let him do so: the idea of supplicating to and through angels and saints was one of the errors the gnostics sought to contaminate the Church with and Paul, in Colossians exposed them!

@italo and dmandy..

Look mehn. My ex-GF of few months ago was Catholic.

And I discovered something, most of you are not been taught the word of God. I remembered one time we were praying and she started praying to Mary and I didn't say AMEN.

Ans she told Mary to make herself known to me. Well till today I've not heard from or seen Mary.

But you know what, before I started following Christ fully, someone did something like that but to Jesus on me and truly I encountered Jesus.

I mean my ex-GF didn't even understand the gift of speaking in tongues.

Scholar8200:
Therefore He is able also to save to the uttermost (completely, perfectly, finally, and for all time and eternity) those who come to God through Him, since He is always living to make petition to God and intercede with Him and intervene for them.Hebrews 7:25

Who is there to condemn [us]? Will Christ Jesus (the Messiah), Who died, or rather Who was raised from the dead, Who is at the right hand of God actually pleading as He intercedes for us?
Romans 8:34

And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby), that He may remain with you forever—
John 14:16

From the above, we can objectively state that there is but One Who is our High Priest and Advocate before the Father-The Lord Jesus Christ!!!

He that is able to receive this let him do so: the idea of supplicating to and through angels and saints was one of the errors the gnostics sought to contaminate the Church with and Paul, in Colossians exposed them!

Tell them brother.

The problem is humans are afraid to accept change. Especially if you were brought up in a particular lifestyle or teaching.

So they just argue but they have no proof on what they argue about.

Jeromejnr:


You assumed killing an ant is sin.

Just like you assume out of scriptures that there is a purgatory.

I didn't assume... for it is written thou shall not kill. so that when you kill, you have disobeyed that commandment) Listen to Jesus Himself Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him. You have killed even when you are angry...

You my brother is the one who assumed that killing an ant is not a sin. Pray tell me where it is written (Kill all the ants and be rewarded in heaven).

Jeromejnr:


Tell them brother.

The problem is humans are afraid to accept change. Especially if you were brought up in a particular lifestyle or teaching.

So they just argue but they have no proof on what they argue about.

Indeed!

Jeromejnr:


Stop being silly and embrace wisdom.

When God said He will wipe away all tears from their eyes where will that happen. On earth or in heaven? You just got to heaven in the presence of God, you've not even received your robes during the tribulation and there is a whole lot of activity going on there. Will you be blind to it and not know what is going on. won't the saints be prepared to ride with Christ on their horses back to earth for the Millennial Reign?

The bold is your own man-made doctrine. Show me where the Bible said they just arrived heaven.

What is clear is that they were saints in heaven and they knew the happenings on earth.

Jeromejnr:


And you just said you Catholics go outside scriptures, can you see where your error greatly lies. In Doctrines of men.

In 2Thess2:15, St. Paul asks Christians to hold fast to traditions handed down by letter (Sacred Scripture) and by word of mouth (Sacred Tradition). So even the Bible tells us to go outside the Bible.

Now can you show us where the Bible said Christian must not go outside the Bible? Hehehe.

Jeromejnr:


Why can't you just stick to scriptures. You see you guys don't even have proof of what you believe in. SMH.

But I have given you proof of people in heaven who know about the happenings on earth.

While you can't show me where the Bible says people in heaven cannot hear prayers...or that anything not written verbatim in the Bible is false...or that Christians should never go outside the bible.

dmandy:


I didn't assume... for it is written thou shall not kill. so that when you kill, you have disobeyed that commandment) Listen to Jesus Himself Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him. You have killed even when you are angry...

You my brother is the one who assumed that killing an ant is not a sin. Pray tell me where it is written (Kill all the ants and be rewarded in heaven).

So Jesus that killed a fish to eat and also ordered his disciples to catch fishes (the multitude of fish miracle) committed sin abi?

Na wa o.

See why I said your assuming. Think before you conclude on a matter.

ChaI! My brodas and sistas abeg come see o.

There is only one HIGH priest Jesus, I believe that with all my heart and all my soul... and I can ask you my brother to [pray for me through the same high priest just like I can ask any other saint here on earth or in heaven with Christ to pray for me. Do you believe you are a saint?

Scholar8200:
Therefore He is able also to save to the uttermost (completely, perfectly, finally, and for all time and eternity) those who come to God through Him, since He is always living to make petition to God and intercede with Him and intervene for them.Hebrews 7:25

Who is there to condemn [us]? Will Christ Jesus (the Messiah), Who died, or rather Who was raised from the dead, Who is at the right hand of God actually pleading as He intercedes for us?
Romans 8:34

And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby), that He may remain with you forever—
John 14:16

From the above, we can objectively state that there is but One Who is our High Priest and Advocate before the Father-The Lord Jesus Christ!!!

He that is able to receive this let him do so: the idea of supplicating to and through angels and saints was one of the errors the gnostics sought to contaminate the Church with and Paul, in Colossians exposed them!

dmandy:
There is only one HIGH priest Jesus, I believe that with all my heart and all my soul... and I can ask you my brother to [pray for me through the same high priest just like I can ask any other saint here on earth or in heaven with Christ to pray for me. Do you believe you are a saint?

Pls we are talking about asking a departed soul to intercede on our behalf; this is wrong and lacks any Scriptural basis whatsoever!

Jeromejnr:
@italo and dmandy..

Look mehn. My ex-GF of few months ago was Catholic.

And I discovered something, most of you are not been taught the word of God. I remembered one time we were praying and she started praying to Mary and I didn't say AMEN.

Ans she told Mary to make herself known to me. Well till today I've not heard from or seen Mary.

But you know what, before I started following Christ fully, someone did something like that but to Jesus on me and truly I encountered Jesus.

I mean my ex-GF didn't even understand the gift of speaking in tongues.

So you believe one can be taught the word of God, I say we are on the same page but just understanding.

You prayed that Mary should make herself known to you... Well I think that is a wrong form of prayer and the Church does not teach that. Pray that God makes the Mother of the Lord known to you. And when you pray believe for God cannot be mocked. You prayed to receive the holy spirit and you did because you believed. That's the difference.... Jesus had the power to turn the stones into bread but won't bulge because the person asking was only mocking not praying.

BOWOTO:
Pls I'd like to know how you checked.

I asked for our blessed mother's intercession in an event and my request was granted.. That's how I know. Besides st Anthony of padua is never far away from my pleas

Jeromejnr:


Stop being silly and embrace wisdom.

When God said He will wipe away all tears from their eyes where will that happen. On earth or in heaven? You just got to heaven in the presence of God, you've not even received your robes during the tribulation and there is a whole lot of activity going on there. Will you be blind to it and not know what is going on. won't the saints be prepared to ride with Christ on their horses back to earth for the Millennial Reign?

And you just said you Catholics go outside scriptures, can you see where your error greatly lies. In Doctrines of men.

Why can't you just stick to scriptures. You see you guys don't even have proof of what you believe in. SMH.

lol @ silly. Resorting to curse. That they may be one. I belong to Paul and I belong to Appolos.

italo:


The bold is your own man-made doctrine. Show me where the Bible said they just arrived heaven.

What is clear is that they were saints in heaven and they knew the happenings on earth.


In 2Thess2:15, St. Paul asks Christians to hold fast to traditions handed down by letter (Sacred Scripture) and by word of mouth (Sacred Tradition). So even the Bible tells us to go outside the Bible.

Now can you show us where the Bible said Christian must not go outside the Bible? Hehehe.

Why can't you just stick to scriptures. You see you guys don't even have proof of what you believe in. SMH.

But I have given you proof of people in heaven who know about the happenings on earth.

While you can't show me where the Bible says people in heaven cannot hear prayers...or that anything not written verbatim in the Bible is false...or that Christians should never go outside the bible.

Mehn! see as you just misconstrued the Word of God.

Try reading all that verse in context "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle" 2 Thess 2:15. Traditions on the epistle and Word not catholic man made traditions.

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!" Gal
1:8.

So my broda the Bible did not say go outside scriptures it said stick to the scriptures. In fact it even warns you.

And also that those guys just made heaven:

1. The robes given to them.
2. It was chaos on earth and they were told to rest a little till the remaining come to join them.

It common sense.

BTW, that scripture has nothing to do with praying to saints.

Scholar8200:
Pls we are talking about asking a departed soul to intercede on our behalf; this is wrong and lacks any Scriptural basis whatsoever!

Only you can never show us where the Bible said it is wrong to ask them to intercede for us.

dmandy:


So you believe one can be taught the word of God, I say we are on the same page but just understanding.

You prayed that Mary should make herself known to you... Well I think that is a wrong form of prayer and the Church does not teach that. Pray that God makes the Mother of the Lord known to you. And when you pray believe for God cannot be mocked. You prayed to receive the holy spirit and you did because you believed. That's the difference.... Jesus had the power to turn the stones into bread but won't bulge because the person asking was only mocking not praying.

I didn't say I prayed for Mary to reveal herself. She did that.

So until I believe before I see Mary? SMH.

I know Muslims that didn't believe in Jesus but just asked Him to reveal Himself because they were asked to and He did.

So has Mary helped you in any way?

italo:


Only you can never show us where the Bible said it is wrong to ask them to intercede for us.

You also show us scripture where it says we should not pray to the devil.

And tell us why you don't pray to him.

Jeromejnr:


Mehn! see as you just misconstrued the Word of God.

Try reading all that verse in context "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle" 2 Thess 2:15. Traditions on the epistle and Word not catholic man made traditions.

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!" Gal
1:8.

So my broda the Bible did not say go outside scriptures it said stick to the scriptures. In fact it even warns you.

And also that those guys just made heaven:

1. The robes given to them.
2. It was chaos on earth and they were told to rest a little till the remaining come to join them.

It common sense.

BTW, that scripture has nothing to do with praying to saints.

New International Version
So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

New Living Translation
With all these things in mind, dear brothers and sisters, stand firm and keep a strong grip on the teaching we passed on to you both in person and by letter.

English Standard Version
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

Berean Study Bible
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and cling to the traditions we taught you, whether by speech or by letter

The traditions taught by word of mouth are also to be followed. Gal1:8 even buttresses my point as not all that the apostles preached was recorded in the Bible.

Now show me where the Bible said Christians should not go outside the Bible.

The bible never said the martyrs had just arrived. Stop trying to force it.

You still can't show me where the Bible says people in heaven cannot hear prayers...or that anything not written verbatim in the Bible is false.

dmandy:


lol @ silly. Resorting to curse. That they may be one. I belong to Paul and I belong to Appolos.

Sometime it's necessary. Even though it's not a curse as you think it is. But anyways,

Even Paul spoke more harshly to the Galatians. "O you Foolish Galatians....."

I don't like doing anything outside of scriptures.

italo:


Only you can never show us where the Bible said it is wrong to ask them to intercede for us.

Neither can you show us were the idea/practise was either encouraged or practised! Are you not adding to the Word then? Why? Nobody on earth ever implored Abraham, Moses, Enoch, Daniel,David,Mary, James (first to be martyred among the apostles), Stephen etc to intercede for them! In the prayers of Nehemiah (Nehemiah 1) and Daniel (Daniel 9) there is no resorting to Moses or Abraham to intercede for them! Meanwhile, you ascribe the High Priestly role of Jesus to another mortal! That is idolatry!!